PDA

View Full Version : Working the right muscles for tennis?


Lotto
01-29-2010, 05:11 AM
Hi guys,

Am quite unfit but have started going to the gym to improve my tennis fitness. Am doing periodization training and am currently in the "Preparation Phase" as "Complete Conditioning for Tennis" calls it. Here is my workout:


Aerobic:

-10 mins warm up on cross trainer level 6, medium instensity.
-20 mins on treadmill (6.5 kmh for 5 mins, 8 kmh for 10 mins, 9kmh for 3 mins, 7 kmh for 2 mins)
-10 mins on rower (level 7)
-5 mins "cool down" on bike at medium intensity, level 4.

This is followed by stretching... Then:

Strength and Power:

-Chest Press Machine: 15 reps, 3 sets, 20 kg
-Lateral Pull Down Machine: 15 reps, 3 sets, 25 kg
-Shoulder Press Machine: 15 reps, 3 sets, 10 kg
-Leg Press Machine: 15 reps, 3 sets, 80 kg

-Free weight Bicep curl: 12 reps, 3 sets, 4 kg
-Free weight tricep: 12 reps, 3 sets, 4 kg


"Floorwork":

-Plank for 20 seconds (trying to build up)
-30 sit-ups, 3 sets
-30 Squats with dumbell, 3 sets
-30 "back strengthening exercise, duno name", 3 sets

Then a Wrist and Forearm program.


My question is, this was designed by a gym instructor without looking at the book I got, "Complete Conditioning for Tennis by E. Paul Roetart, Todd S.Ellenbecker with USTA"

There are more strength and power exercises in it such as Plyometric stepovers, lunges, calf raises, mutihip machine, and some exercises with an elastic band/tubing...

Is my workout ok or is there more that needs to be added for the "Preparation Phase"?

Once I enter the "Pre-competitive phase" I will be adding on-court speed drills and agility drills and stuff like that to challenge the anaerobic system aswell.

Cheers for your input.

Itagaki
01-29-2010, 07:05 AM
Strength and Power:

-Chest Press Machine: 15 reps, 3 sets, 20 kg
-Lateral Pull Down Machine: 15 reps, 3 sets, 25 kg
-Shoulder Press Machine: 15 reps, 3 sets, 10 kg
-Leg Press Machine: 15 reps, 3 sets, 80 kg

-Free weight Bicep curl: 12 reps, 3 sets, 4 kg
-Free weight tricep: 12 reps, 3 sets, 4 kg


"Floorwork":

-Plank for 20 seconds (trying to build up)
-30 sit-ups, 3 sets
-30 Squats with dumbell, 3 sets
-30 "back strengthening exercise, duno name", 3 sets



ditch the machines

do bench press(the bar alone is 20kg)

do pull ups if you can manage, or try assisted pull ups(by looping resistance bands around your knees)

do a regular shoulder press with a barbell...if thats too much, use free weights

do barbell back squats instead of leg press, with good form of course

if you do all that with enough weight, you really wont need to do any freeweight exercise for the biceps or triceps(they get worked enough in the compound exercises), but if you feel you must go nuts

as for the floor exercises i cant really make a comment, but maybe instead of situps you can try turkish getups to strengthen your core
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vhJza-2xiI

also the rep scheme...i personally dont believe doing sets with reps that high is truly beneficial, especially for tennis

consider switching to a more strength training rep scheme (i.e 3-5) and adjusting the weight accordingly

Lotto
01-29-2010, 08:33 AM
ditch the machines

do bench press(the bar alone is 20kg)

do pull ups if you can manage, or try assisted pull ups(by looping resistance bands around your knees)

do a regular shoulder press with a barbell...if thats too much, use free weights

do barbell back squats instead of leg press, with good form of course

if you do all that with enough weight, you really wont need to do any freeweight exercise for the biceps or triceps(they get worked enough in the compound exercises), but if you feel you must go nuts

as for the floor exercises i cant really make a comment, but maybe instead of situps you can try turkish getups to strengthen your core
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vhJza-2xiI

also the rep scheme...i personally dont believe doing sets with reps that high is truly beneficial, especially for tennis

consider switching to a more strength training rep scheme (i.e 3-5) and adjusting the weight accordingly


So, no machines and substitue free weights/barbells for the machines...also, lift heavier weights but shorter reps??

Thanks for your answer by the way.

Itagaki
01-29-2010, 09:14 AM
So, no machines and substitue free weights/barbells for the machines...also, lift heavier weights but shorter reps??

Thanks for your answer by the way.

you got it

machines restrict your movement in one plane of motion

free weights let you move in a more natural way...safer and better provided you use correct technique

and yea, lower reps heavier weights

take a look at stronglifts.com

the 5x5 program looks pretty good to me, and you can start off very easy with just the bar, adding weight slowly as you progress

charliefedererer
01-29-2010, 09:47 AM
"Machines" are not the "best" way to gain strength.

But don't think you have wasted any time or effort by using them as you have been building up a base strength to do more.

Just be sure to get instruction in technique and use a spotter as you transition to heavy weights.

And yes, lifting close to your max for only a few reps is the way to make real strength gains.

Lotto
01-29-2010, 01:00 PM
"Machines" are not the "best" way to gain strength.

But don't think you have wasted any time or effort by using them as you have been building up a base strength to do more.

Just be sure to get instruction in technique and use a spotter as you transition to heavy weights.

And yes, lifting close to your max for only a few reps is the way to make real strength gains.


Didn't know that....and the heavy weight, low rep, sets will be more beneficial in helping to develop the fast twitch muscle fibers or strengthening them or whatever im meant to be doing with them?

charliefedererer
01-29-2010, 02:54 PM
I'm not sure you are referring to this site in your opening statements, but thought you were: http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/tennis-weight-training.html

You stated you were beginning from a "quite unfit" state. And I assumed you have been doing several weeks of the initial phase for increasing your general conditioning. And the next phase is to try to get some weight gains. To do that you will have to lift heavier, with fewer reps.
The final phase before your tennis season will be to do more "tennis specific" training with plyometric work. But if you do extensive plyomentric work now, your muscles will be too tired/not be recovered in two days to do the heavier lifting.
You can add in/keep doing work like with the lat pulldowns and the thrower's ten www.asmi.org/SportsMed/media/thrower10.swf at the end of your heavier lifting sessions. And you can substitute plyometrics for some of your lifting and start to add in some high intensity interval training and agility drills to your regimen as you get closer to the tennis season start.

But likely you will struggle to find the "best" off season conditioning program for yourself. Just refer to this thread to see the divergent opinions out there: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=308782

SystemicAnomaly
01-29-2010, 10:01 PM
Is that static stretching that you are doing after your aerobic workout? You should include dynamic stretching as part of your warmup and save the static stretching for for the end -- as part of your post-exercise cool-down. The 1st link in the post (directly) above recommends this and I'd be willing to bet that the Roetart/Ellenbecker book does as well.

I'm surprised that your gym instructor has you doing stretches after the aerobic workout but before your lifting workout. Sound like he/she is "old school" and has probably not kept up with the current thinking on stretching.

You are probably better off replacing the machine workout with more free weight stuff as the guys above have suggested. However, I see no problem with using the leg press machine since you are also doing free-weight squats later on in your workout. Unlike the leg extension machine, the leg press machine provides a multi-joint (functional) exercise that works multiple muscle groups.

www.healthline.com/hlbook/strt-more-multijoint-exercises (http://www.healthline.com/hlbook/strt-more-multijoint-exercises)
www.healthline.com/hlbook/strt-leg-press (http://www.healthline.com/hlbook/strt-leg-press)
.

SystemicAnomaly
01-30-2010, 04:33 AM
amazon.com/reader/0736069380?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt#reader_0736069380 (http://www.amazon.com/reader/0736069380?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt#reader_0736069380)

I was right about the Roetart/Ellenbecker book -- check out page 48.

WildVolley
01-30-2010, 07:05 AM
Make certain that you are doing rotator cuff type exercises - especially, external rotation as part of your training. Most likely you can do this with bands and tubing. I'm a believer that these help strengthen and stabilize your shoulder.

You want to have a strength base for both improved performance and a lower chance of injury during your season.

Lotto
01-30-2010, 11:47 AM
Is that static stretching that you are doing after your aerobic workout? You should include dynamic stretching as part of your warmup and save the static stretching for for the end -- as part of your post-exercise cool-down. The 1st link in the post (directly) above recommends this and I'd be willing to bet that the Roetart/Ellenbecker book does as well.

I'm surprised that your gym instructor has you doing stretches after the aerobic workout but before your lifting workout. Sound like he/she is "old school" and has probably not kept up with the current thinking on stretching.

You are probably better off replacing the machine workout with more free weight stuff as the guys above have suggested. However, I see no problem with using the leg press machine since you are also doing free-weight squats later on in your workout. Unlike the leg extension machine, the leg press machine provides a multi-joint (functional) exercise that works multiple muscle groups.

www.healthline.com/hlbook/strt-more-multijoint-exercises (http://www.healthline.com/hlbook/strt-more-multijoint-exercises)
www.healthline.com/hlbook/strt-leg-press (http://www.healthline.com/hlbook/strt-leg-press)
.


It was actually me who thought it would be beneficial to be doing stretchign before the strengthening because I was told stretching "cold" muscles is bad for you, no? Yes, you're right...they do include both static and dynamic stretching exercises....that's one thing I really want to improve is my flexibility so will try and do both!

May I make a suggestion...I don't think it's a good suggestion but I'm not that informed or knowledgable abut conditioing....

would it be beneficial to do:

The machines at the high reps/low weights/3 sets AND do the high weight, low reps aswell.....do both...? Or would that be over taxing and not beneficial at all?

charliefedererer
01-30-2010, 07:11 PM
It was actually me who thought it would be beneficial to be doing stretchign before the strengthening because I was told stretching "cold" muscles is bad for you, no? Yes, you're right...they do include both static and dynamic stretching exercises....that's one thing I really want to improve is my flexibility so will try and do both!

May I make a suggestion...I don't think it's a good suggestion but I'm not that informed or knowledgable abut conditioing....

would it be beneficial to do:

The machines at the high reps/low weights/3 sets AND do the high weight, low reps aswell.....do both...? Or would that be over taxing and not beneficial at all?

The problem with static stretching before lifting or playing tennis is that reseach has shown that you actually lose strength for a time after static stretching. Dynamic exercise on the other hand is essential to warm the muscles up before lifting or playing tennis. Static stretching should be done at the end of lifting or playing tennis to maintain flexibility and to help prevent muscle cramping.

You will need a couple of sets of progressive weight lifts to warm up your muscles for the heavier lifts at low reps that will produce actual strength gains. Several sets of these high weight lifts for all your major muscle groups should leave you pretty tired. But beyond that, your muscles need a couple of days to rest, recover and grow. Thus, high reps of the same lifts are not recommended. You can do your thrower's ten work (www.asmi.org/SportsMed/media/thrower10.swf), including using the elastic tubing (and/or pulley machines) for wider range of motion exercise, or some medicine ball twists as you do sort of a dynamic warm down before your static stretching to finish off your session.

Lotto
01-31-2010, 12:44 PM
The problem with static stretching before lifting or playing tennis is that reseach has shown that you actually lose strength for a time after static stretching. Dynamic exercise on the other hand is essential to warm the muscles up before lifting or playing tennis. Static stretching should be done at the end of lifting or playing tennis to maintain flexibility and to help prevent muscle cramping.

You will need a couple of sets of progressive weight lifts to warm up your muscles for the heavier lifts at low reps that will produce actual strength gains. Several sets of these high weight lifts for all your major muscle groups should leave you pretty tired. But beyond that, your muscles need a couple of days to rest, recover and grow. Thus, high reps of the same lifts are not recommended. You can do your thrower's ten work (www.asmi.org/SportsMed/media/thrower10.swf (http://www.asmi.org/SportsMed/media/thrower10.swf)), including using the elastic tubing (and/or pulley machines) for wider range of motion exercise, or some medicine ball twists as you do sort of a dynamic warm down before your static stretching to finish off your session.


Right....didn't fully understand that bit :oops:

Itagaki
01-31-2010, 09:24 PM
You will need a couple of sets of progressive weight lifts to warm up your muscles for the heavier lifts at low reps that will produce actual strength gains. Several sets of these high weight lifts for all your major muscle groups should leave you pretty tired. But beyond that, your muscles need a couple of days to rest, recover and grow. Thus, high reps of the same lifts are not recommended. You can do your thrower's ten work (www.asmi.org/SportsMed/media/thrower10.swf), including using the elastic tubing (and/or pulley machines) for wider range of motion exercise, or some medicine ball twists as you do sort of a dynamic warm down before your static stretching to finish off your session.

Right....didn't fully understand that bit :oops:

well the first part probably means to do warm up sets

for example...say today you wanna do 3 sets of 5 reps of 185lb on bench press

start with 1x5 of just the bar
then 1x5 of 95
then 1x5 of 135
then 1x3 of 175(only 3 since you're getting close to your working weight)

and then you do your 3 sets at 185

i just pulled this example outta my ***, ya dont have to follow it closely

other than that, he basically said to not do both high rep/low weight and low rep/high weight

just do the low rep/heavy weight

the second part was a recommendation of what to do for your cooldown before you stretch

at least thats my interpretation of what he said

charliefedererer
02-01-2010, 01:16 PM
^^^ Yeah that's basically what I meant. Do some warm up lifts so your muscles and tendons are not seeing your maximum weight right off the bat.
And you can "cool down" with auxiliary exercises like the Thrower's Ten that should be done anyway, rather than just repeating your sets with low weights.

Memnoch
02-01-2010, 03:27 PM
I personally think using a rubber band is one of the best ways to work on your muscles, with one rubber band you can work lots of different areas.
Also doing the bicycle is the best way to work on your abs.
http://exercise.about.com/od/abs/ss/abexercises.htm

in terms of weights i think its good to mix it up, use 15 lbs and do lots of reps and then use 20-25 lb dumb bells and do less reps. Be sure to do lots of stretching and take day breaks to allow your body to rest.

Itagaki
02-01-2010, 04:49 PM
I personally think using a rubber band is one of the best ways to work on your muscles, with one rubber band you can work lots of different areas.
Also doing the bicycle is the best way to work on your abs.
http://exercise.about.com/od/abs/ss/abexercises.htm

in terms of weights i think its good to mix it up, use 15 lbs and do lots of reps and then use 20-25 lb dumb bells and do less reps. Be sure to do lots of stretching and take day breaks to allow your body to rest.

i personally dont believe its all that beneficial to mix things up in weights

pick a specific plan, stick with it

Vyse
02-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Dynamic stretching beforehand with a light, short warm up run. Than do your lifting. Don't use those silly machines, use free weights as others have stated. Do lower reps as well. Do your abs work after that than consider running. Running after lifting increases fat burning which you say you are unfit so I am assuming overweight. At the end of your workout (after your running) always do static stretching. And remeber, eat well. Small, frequent meals. Slow digesting carbs, produce at every meal, lean protein, and healthy fats.

SystemicAnomaly
02-04-2010, 05:52 PM
i personally dont believe its all that beneficial to mix things up in weights

pick a specific plan, stick with it

I wonder abut this. There are many in the exercise community that adhere to the idea of cross-training and muscle confusion (a form of cross-training). Cross-training works the muscle in various ways to improve overall performance. "It takes advantage of the particular effectiveness of each training method, while at the same time attempting to neglect the shortcomings of that method by combining it with other methods that address its weaknesses."

The idea of muscle confusion has been around long before P90x (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P90X#Usage_and_reception) made it a household phrase. Many bodybuilders and others have employed this idea. On the other hand, there are others who claim that the effectiveness of muscle confusion is a myth.

Itagaki
02-04-2010, 09:13 PM
I wonder abut this. There are many in the exercise community that adhere to the idea of cross-training and muscle confusion (a form of cross-training). Cross-training works the muscle in various ways to improve overall performance. "It takes advantage of the particular effectiveness of each training method, while at the same time attempting to neglect the shortcomings of that method by combining it with other methods that address its weaknesses."

The idea of muscle confusion has been around long before P90x (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P90X#Usage_and_reception) made it a household phrase. Many bodybuilders and others have employed this idea. On the other hand, there are others who claim that the effectiveness of muscle confusion is a myth.

oh im not trying to prove or disprove the concept of crossfitness

working the muscles in different ways may have its effectiveness, but varying the rep scheme and such i think would not be very effective(which is what i believe Memnoch was suggesting)

for example do 15 reps of bench press at 95 lbs and then doing 5 reps of 150lbs

i just dont see that as being an effective way to train

Kobble
02-04-2010, 10:23 PM
Tennis is a leg game. Get a good plan for strengthening the legs. Pistols work good, weighted lunges, also. Regular back squats are good. I know of some fast tennis players, and some admitted to me that they can at least squat like 200 lbs. So, aim to at least be able to squat bodyweight.

As for core, try Bulgarian bag workouts. Those seem to work along the same movements as tennis. This is new to me, but very interesting.

I'm not going to get into specific programming, because that depends on you and your work capacity. So, some guidelines would be to work leg strength, pushing, pulling, and core at least twice per week. It is hard to do say, tabata sprints 4x a week, and also try and maximize squat strength. I don't think it can be done; I can't do it. I wouldn't burn myself out on upper body stuff either. You don't need that much strength for tennis, in my opinion. I'll bet a bench over 190 lbs., and more than a 250 lbs. total pullup is a getting to be a waste. Working 15 rep max for upper body is fine from my perspective. You will get stronger on that, especially for a beginner. This stuff would fall into assistance exercise category. After 3-4 months, and if you are interested in further progress, you can up the intensity to you 10 rep max. Around 70-85% of your 1 rep max is a good range for strength. Proven over time.

Lotto
02-05-2010, 12:43 AM
So really it's just about experimentation regarding the weights, no?

For example, if I stuck with my current weight program....that's probably working my muscular endurance at that weight....so said I did 20kg, 15 reps, 3 sets that would make me stronger but would be good for endurance.

While what would the benefits of doing 3-5 reps of a really heavy weight at 3 sets have?

Also, I was talking to my coach who's in the gym alot and he does agree that free weights are alot more effective, however, seeing as I am completely new to this working out thing and seeing as how I'm not that strong and wouldn't get alot of protein my coach recommended I stick to the machiens until I build it up enough to do the free weights because they require good technique and I could injure myself.......Here's my ****** diet from an old thread I posted in:


"I was previously a......I don't know how to describe it but I only ate White Bread(Brown bread every now and again), Corn Flakes nd Chips(not potato chips, chips as in fries). Also, I would drink ANYTHING really and I also ate small things irregularly like Yoghurts.
Then, in about February last year I tried a banana and now eat them, every now and again, maybe 1-2 a week. Also, in January of this year I tried Porridge and will now eat it most mornings.............I'm seriously trying to work on my diet though, because it's really holding me back in a lot of areas, especially fitness for tennis........so."


And the thread link : http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=249142


However, since then I have been doing my best and working to change it...I now eat porridge every morning along with a banana and glass of orange juice....no more white bread all the time, mainly brown bread with white every now and again....also, have tried pasta, eggs and cod...have only had cod like twice though and eggs 2-3 times as with pasta but am trying to get more consistent now by having an egg and pasta everyday to get used to it..if you think about it, to eat something for the first time in your life is not easy, whereas alot of people have been eating meat etc. their whole lifes so its natural....bread etc is natural to me but anything else isn't so trying hard to work on the diet big time but it's not easy my friends.


Am doing my best though, have become really motivated...want to be the best tennis player I can be. The goal is to catch up to my coach who was a 2.1 LTA rating which apparently is a 6.5 usta but to be honest I think he'd be more 5.5-6.0....he played a guy who reached around 900 in the world who's 19 there at christmas in the national indoors quarter-finals and lost 4 nd 4 so I presume he can hang with the 6.5's...that's the goal tho.

Kobble
02-05-2010, 11:56 AM
So really it's just about experimentation regarding the weights, no?

For example, if I stuck with my current weight program....that's probably working my muscular endurance at that weight....so said I did 20kg, 15 reps, 3 sets that would make me stronger but would be good for endurance.

While what would the benefits of doing 3-5 reps of a really heavy weight at 3 sets have?

Also, I was talking to my coach who's in the gym alot and he does agree that free weights are alot more effective, however, seeing as I am completely new to this working out thing and seeing as how I'm not that strong and wouldn't get alot of protein my coach recommended I stick to the machiens until I build it up enough to do the free weights because they require good technique and I could injure myself.......Here's my ****** diet from an old thread I posted in:



And the thread link : http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=249142


However, since then I have been doing my best and working to change it...I now eat porridge every morning along with a banana and glass of orange juice....no more white bread all the time, mainly brown bread with white every now and again....also, have tried pasta, eggs and cod...have only had cod like twice though and eggs 2-3 times as with pasta but am trying to get more consistent now by having an egg and pasta everyday to get used to it..if you think about it, to eat something for the first time in your life is not easy, whereas alot of people have been eating meat etc. their whole lifes so its natural....bread etc is natural to me but anything else isn't so trying hard to work on the diet big time but it's not easy my friends.


Am doing my best though, have become really motivated...want to be the best tennis player I can be. The goal is to catch up to my coach who was a 2.1 LTA rating which apparently is a 6.5 usta but to be honest I think he'd be more 5.5-6.0....he played a guy who reached around 900 in the world who's 19 there at christmas in the national indoors quarter-finals and lost 4 nd 4 so I presume he can hang with the 6.5's...that's the goal tho.
I disagree with him about machines. You don't need to worry about injuring yourself if you start out light enough. Throwing in more high intensity work can make you more or less strong. It depends on your recovery ability. Some trainers do not advise beginners to use very heavy weights as their primary intensity because beginners respond well to almost anything, and chances of injury are less with lower intensity. Stay the course for at least 2-3 months.