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View Full Version : 1001 Reason's why you dislike USTA League Tennis


Inner Game
01-31-2010, 02:30 PM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

Topaz
01-31-2010, 03:08 PM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

1. Those 'overzealous captains' don't get paid for the hard work they do in organizing and running a team. You don't like your captain? Find a new team...or better yet, captain one yourself.

2. Let me guess, you got bumped up and are unhappy with it?

3. There is absolutely no rule against 'stacking'.

raiden031
01-31-2010, 03:11 PM
League and Tennislink fees

Fedace
01-31-2010, 03:15 PM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

Captains that will do anything to win the division and the league Coordinator that looks the other way when they have a team that has won the division EVERY single year for last 10 years. something very Fishy going on here..:???:

blakesq
01-31-2010, 03:16 PM
match fee in connecticut is $30 per person. ridiculous.


League and Tennislink fees

SlapShot
01-31-2010, 03:26 PM
1. Having to deal with people complaining about ringers, stacking, etc. It's JUST TENNIS. We aren't making a living doing this - if you want to win more, work harder and get better.

JavierLW
01-31-2010, 03:35 PM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

Welcome back.

Cheer up, find something to be positive about and then come back later!

(this guy is always whining about something.... sheesh.....)

ALten1
01-31-2010, 03:35 PM
match fee in connecticut is $30 per person. ridiculous.\

Everytime you play it cost $30? Is it facility cost that makes it that much?

beststringer
01-31-2010, 03:43 PM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

1004. shitt food from safeway.
1005. gangster like spectators. we sometimes play near some ghetto areas and i swaer some of them just came out of a prison.

beststringer
01-31-2010, 03:44 PM
match fee in connecticut is $30 per person. ridiculous.

30/match??

raiden031
01-31-2010, 03:46 PM
match fee in connecticut is $30 per person. ridiculous.

To play in my leagues, you pay around $50 just to be on a team if you are a member of the facilities. If you are not a member, you pay like $80 to be on a team. That doesn't include court fees for indoor leagues such as Mixed. Luckily the adult league and summer combo league don't have court fees.

Topaz
01-31-2010, 03:50 PM
\

Everytime you play it cost $30? Is it facility cost that makes it that much?

Wow, I hope that is a mistake?

Our tennislink league fee is just over 20 bucks, and each match fee is 15 (or 10 if it is outdoor league).

30 per match would be too much for me!

ALten1
01-31-2010, 04:10 PM
$23to play usta. our court cost is 6 bucks per match per person. 20+ clay courts, very nice.

OrangePower
01-31-2010, 04:24 PM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

Fortunately, there's an easy solution - if you don't like it, don't play... and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Or of course you could step up to the plate, captain a team, and have fun - and of course, make sure you don't stack and or play any ringers.

blakesq
01-31-2010, 04:28 PM
My understanding is that the $30 is what the USTA negotiated with the tennis facilties. When I play with my non-usta groups, I pay about $14 to $16 per match, for indoor courts.


\

Everytime you play it cost $30? Is it facility cost that makes it that much?

Kenny022593
01-31-2010, 04:58 PM
Under 18 year olds cannot play

JavierLW
01-31-2010, 05:33 PM
Under 18 year olds cannot play

Actually 17 year olds can play now. (if they turn 18 within the same calendar year)

Kenny022593
01-31-2010, 05:41 PM
Actually 17 year olds can play now. (if they turn 18 within the same calendar year)

Ugh that means i still cannot play this year

Larrysümmers
01-31-2010, 05:56 PM
Ugh that means i still cannot play this year

yeah it kinda sucks in my area because in the summer the closet tournaments are like 70 miles away and so I can't play. Yet we have a flex league in the town I live in and a few others within a few minutes. Because I am not 17. I cannot play. So I end up playing the same friend everyday

JavierLW
01-31-2010, 06:00 PM
Ugh that means i still cannot play this year

Junior USTA League?

Annika
01-31-2010, 06:10 PM
1. I don't like traveling over 20 min to get to our opponents court/club just to play a match. :|

2. If I don't belong to a racquet club, I'm usually not able to play USTA. Hard to find independent teams. :mad:

Cindysphinx
01-31-2010, 08:37 PM
The only thing that I find bad about USTA play is that there are not enough people willing to captain, so lots of people do not get on teams.

ALten1
01-31-2010, 09:12 PM
Being a captain is no fun. Anyone that wants to complain should try being one. I tried, hated it. I don't mind filling in but thats the extent of it for me.

Stacking teams doesn't bother me...Winning the division doesn't matter to me. I don't like the travel/money/time it takes to play a tournament clear across state. 8 hour trip from where I live.

I promise to quit complaining about the six dollars I have to pay to play a match. For some of you a round of golf at a country club here is cheaper than your court fees.

Blade0324
02-01-2010, 08:54 AM
About the only thing I'm not crazy about is the tennis link fees. I think they are a bit excessive for what you get out of it. $23 for what??? I then have about $40 per person per league season for court fees which works out to be about $8 per home match. I don't think that's too bad at all. Other than that I'm pretty happy with the USTA leagues overall.

I have captained for the last 3 seasons and it's been pretty fun. This year I have choosen not to captain and joined up with a new team since my rating changed and now I can just focus on my tennis. Should be a nice break.

JRstriker12
02-01-2010, 09:11 AM
I dislike the USTA because it's full of people who like to b***** and moan about how much they dislike the USTA. It's not perfect, but it's not too bad either. It's a lot better run than the local soccer league where I used to be a captain of a team.


1. I don't like traveling over 20 min to get to our opponents court/club just to play a match. :|

2. If I don't belong to a racquet club, I'm usually not able to play USTA. Hard to find independent teams. :mad:


Where do you live? In alot of places, such as the DC area, traveling more than 20 minutes is "just right down the road." You could also just not play away matches.

BTW- Can you start your own independent team????

OrangePower
02-01-2010, 10:21 AM
About the only thing I'm not crazy about is the tennis link fees. I think they are a bit excessive for what you get out of it. $23 for what??? I then have about $40 per person per league season for court fees which works out to be about $8 per home match. I don't think that's too bad at all. Other than that I'm pretty happy with the USTA leagues overall.

Here in Norcal the USTA fee for joining a team is $21. Since teams arrange and pay for courts themselves, I also wondered where the $21 per person is going. I can understand that there are some incremental administration costs and so on that need to be covered, but not to that extent.

But then someone pointed out that the USTA arranges and pays for facilities and courts for districts and sectionals... so I'm assuming a good chunk of each person's $21 goes towards that. It only benefits those teams that get that far of course, but it makes sense.

Inner Game
02-01-2010, 04:14 PM
Welcome back.

Cheer up, find something to be positive about and then come back later!

(this guy is always whining about something.... sheesh.....)

Hey Javier...I have never whined about getting beaten, because tennis is one game where luck has very little to do with win's and loses ....Besides tennis is always relative.....there will always be someone better then you....at every level....
Personally USTA league tennis isn't a problem with me....It's all the politics both at the section and captain levels that make it suck...to me its a joke how serious people take this....its just a game....and most people will never play this game for a living...

Kenny022593
02-01-2010, 05:25 PM
Junior USTA League?

I do not think there is one near me

michael_1265
02-01-2010, 06:06 PM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

1. People who take themselves too seriously on court. You're a 3.5, pal, and you don't pay your mortgage with your tennis winnings. Lighten up!

2. Tennislink is just plain crappy.


I could say a hundred good things, though. USTA has allowed me to compete at and enjoy my favorite sport, and I've met a lot of great people while doing so.

JavierLW
02-01-2010, 07:16 PM
Hey Javier...I have never whined about getting beaten, because tennis is one game where luck has very little to do with win's and loses ....Besides tennis is always relative.....there will always be someone better then you....at every level....
Personally USTA league tennis isn't a problem with me....It's all the politics both at the section and captain levels that make it suck...to me its a joke how serious people take this....its just a game....and most people will never play this game for a living...

That's just it, if someone looks at your posts (and you had quite an absence) they will see that your goal in life seems to be to rag about something that you really have no part in.

If you dont like it, then dont play....

And this one takes the cake, you have nothing better to do but to start a whole tread about it.

You remind of this guy around here who wasnt allowed to return a $30 item to Best Buy because he didnt have a receipt.

So he stood in front of the store with this big giant sign that read "YOU WILL GET THE SHAFT AT BEST BUY".

He was out there for 9 months or more, anytime you drove by you'd see him. It could be 10F out or 90F out, rain, snow, or shine he was there.

Not sure if he had a job or not, but apparently he was mad enough that it was his mission to be out there.

So what did the USTA do to you? Maybe you should make up a big sign and show up at the National Championships or something, that will show them!

Cindysphinx
02-02-2010, 04:34 AM
Hey, Best Buy blatantly tried to screw with me once. Straight up accused me of fraud and refused a refund on that basis despite the receipt and item in original package.

I can see why that fellow was mad . . . .

Cindy -- who got the refund by going to a different Best Buy that had employees who were not morons

Bud
02-02-2010, 04:56 AM
Hey, Best Buy blatantly tried to screw with me once. Straight up accused me of fraud and refused a refund on that basis despite the receipt and item in original package.

I can see why that fellow was mad . . . .

Cindy -- who got the refund by going to a different Best Buy that had employees who were not morons

You should share this tip with sign-guy :)

heninfan99
02-02-2010, 06:15 AM
I had a good time captaining last year despite it costing me some $$. My issue is getting good players. Our coordinator is actually on a team in my league. It could be a conflict of interest. I assume he's got first dibbs on the great players. So basically, unless you recruit on your own (which is hard to do) you're never gonna get a great team going. Other than that I like it. The one great player I have got to me by accident.

I would like to add that every player that said they didn't care about winning and just "played for fun" totally changed their tune by the end of the season. Even though we sucked we all wanted to squeeze out another win and that changes how you captain.

Inner Game
02-02-2010, 09:21 AM
That's just it, if someone looks at your posts (and you had quite an absence) they will see that your goal in life seems to be to rag about something that you really have no part in.

If you dont like it, then dont play....

And this one takes the cake, you have nothing better to do but to start a whole tread about it.

You remind of this guy around here who wasnt allowed to return a $30 item to Best Buy because he didnt have a receipt.

So he stood in front of the store with this big giant sign that read "YOU WILL GET THE SHAFT AT BEST BUY".

He was out there for 9 months or more, anytime you drove by you'd see him. It could be 10F out or 90F out, rain, snow, or shine he was there.

Not sure if he had a job or not, but apparently he was mad enough that it was his mission to be out there.

So what did the USTA do to you? Maybe you should make up a big sign and show up at the National Championships or something, that will show them!

Hey Javier....I love your response....and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside that you took the time to read and analyze my posts...LOL
I do have to say that when a person makes 3000 post in a 3 year period....that's a little over the top isn't it....maybe you should get a life....

I can also tell your probably a USTA captain and probably never played anything more then club tennis your whole life...So then maybe league tennis is your life...
It you spent as much time practicing as you do posting you might be able to move out the "club tennis" mentality!

I'm Out!

OrangePower
02-02-2010, 09:30 AM
I had a good time captaining last year despite it costing me some $$. My issue is getting good players. Our coordinator is actually on a team in my league. It could be a conflict of interest. I assume he's got first dibbs on the great players. So basically, unless you recruit on your own (which is hard to do) you're never gonna get a great team going. Other than that I like it. The one great player I have got to me by accident.

I would like to add that every player that said they didn't care about winning and just "played for fun" totally changed their tune by the end of the season. Even though we sucked we all wanted to squeeze out another win and that changes how you captain.

That's a good observation. In my area we don't get assigned any players (have to recruit all on our own) so it's a bit different in that regard, but still it's hard to get good players when you're a new team. The good players always have lots of options and they tend to stick to teams with a winning track record.

What has helped me and my team is thinking of it along a 3-year plan:

Year 1: Newly formed team. Hopefully you have a core of fun but not necessarily good (for the level) players. With a bit of luck you can probably recruit one or two good players, but that's about it. For this year, the goal is to have fun, give everyone lots of matches, and focus on improving rather than winning. A good target is to try end the year with a .500 record.

Year 2: Team now has some experience, and hopefully a bit of a reputation for being a good fun group of guys (or gals). Some players have improved, some have not. You should be able to get a few more good recruits based on word of mouth. These, together with the existing players who have improved, will get most of the playing time this year, because now you have a shot of making playoffs. But be sure to give the weaker players a couple of matches each, and include them in practices, because they are still an important part of the team. Just make sure expectations are set. Your goal is to make playoffs but you're unlikely to win any playoff matches.

Year 3: Now that you're a playoff team AND a good fun group of guys (gals), you will find that you can attract a few more great players. And some of your existing players have improved even further. So this is the year where you set your goals high - playoffs and beyond!

Last year was year 3 for my 4.0 team...
This year is year 1 for my 4.5 team :)

catfish
02-02-2010, 09:32 AM
1. People who take themselves too seriously on court. You're a 3.5, pal, and you don't pay your mortgage with your tennis winnings. Lighten up!

2. Tennislink is just plain crappy.


I could say a hundred good things, though. USTA has allowed me to compete at and enjoy my favorite sport, and I've met a lot of great people while doing so.

What's wrong with TennisLink? Compared to the old paper method, it's great. It saves everyone time & money, and it's more accurate than the old paper methods of scorekeeping.

raiden031
02-02-2010, 09:46 AM
What's wrong with TennisLink? Compared to the old paper method, it's great. It saves everyone time & money, and it's more accurate than the old paper methods of scorekeeping.

The user interface for tennislink is terrible. I mean you can't even look up a player's tournament records UNLESS they also played leagues as well. That is lame.

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 09:48 AM
Hey Javier....I love your response....and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside that you took the time to read and analyze my posts...LOL
I do have to say that when a person makes 3000 post in a 3 year period....that's a little over the top isn't it....maybe you should get a life....

I can also tell your probably a USTA captain and probably never played anything more then club tennis your whole life...So then maybe league tennis is your life...
It you spent as much time practicing as you do posting you might be able to move out the "club tennis" mentality!

I'm Out!

I also play tournaments.

Have you played professionally before? Im sorry, I didnt notice you on TV!

This is why I dont like you, you seem to be want to belittle anyone for actually enjoying whatever they happen to be doing or what their goals are.

You dont believe that people can actually improve and still fit in with the NTRP system, you think it's better that everyone just plays in one big giant level which is idiotic.

You also think this is why you're driving around and seeing empty tennis courts in Minnesota and you assume it's like that anywhere. (guess what? You're in Minnesota, how much tennis weather do you even have? I heard that last year summer was on a Monday.....)

Why dont you spend more time worrying about yourself and your obvious insecurity issues and less time pooh poohing what everyone else is doing.....?

Im glad you're out, come back when you find a positive attitude and find something productive to say.

catfish
02-02-2010, 09:51 AM
I had a good time captaining last year despite it costing me some $$. My issue is getting good players. Our coordinator is actually on a team in my league. It could be a conflict of interest. I assume he's got first dibbs on the great players. So basically, unless you recruit on your own (which is hard to do) you're never gonna get a great team going. Other than that I like it. The one great player I have got to me by accident.


It is not a conflict of interest for coordinators to play in leagues. Try finding a USTA league coordinator who doesn't play league tennis. I'll bet you won't be able to. :)

And frankly, it is up to captains to find players for their teams. Who would be willing to captain a team full of players that have been "assigned" to them? I wouldn't because it would be one big headache. Some captains are not interested in winning the league, and that's fine. Some captains constantly "recruit" players to form teams that they think can win the league. And that's fine too, if that's what they want to do.

Why do you think that coordinators get "first dibbs" on players? Coordinators can't force anyone to play on a team that they don't want to play on. Captains can ask anyone they want to be on their team, and players have a choice in the matter too. If a player is asked to be on more than one team, they choose which one they'd rather play on. League tennis is like everything else. Birds of a feather flock together. The better players often end up on the same teams because they want to play with better players. There's nothing wrong with that.

Jracer77
02-02-2010, 10:02 AM
The user interface for tennislink is terrible. I mean you can't even look up a player's tournament records UNLESS they also played leagues as well. That is lame.

Sure you can, it just takes an extra step or two. One year I only played tournaments but I could still check my record. You just find someone in any tournament you played who played in a league that year and backtrack through them. Your whole tournament record for that year is shown.

catfish
02-02-2010, 10:10 AM
The user interface for tennislink is terrible. I mean you can't even look up a player's tournament records UNLESS they also played leagues as well. That is lame.

It's not perfect, but compared to the way things were before Tennislink it's wonderful! Tennislink does have a "contact us" link so I'm sure you can submit suggestions for improvements.

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 10:21 AM
Sure you can, it just takes an extra step or two. One year I only played tournaments but I could still check my record. You just find someone in any tournament you played who played in a league that year and backtrack through them. Your whole tournament record for that year is shown.

Yes but you have to be smart and use your brain to figure that out.

Some people are just challenged when it comes to figuring something out so they need a big red button on their iphone to push that gives them everything they want.

I work in IT, and it's amazing how for a bunch of my co-worker's it's all about "how do you do this". They have to be shown everything and if there are too many steps they wont remember.

Meanwhile other people just somehow see what needs to be done and they figure it out. Maybe it's not the most efficient way of getting it done, but once you figure it out, you dont even give the steps much thought.

But the real issue is the leagues and the tournaments are on two different systems that share data.

The league system's function is to keep track of league results, so if you dont have any league results it simply doesnt even know that you exist. (you cant even look up your name)

There used to be a good site called tennisinformation.com that had all the tournament information and sometimes I had good luck searching for peole there, but it doesnt seem to have everything for some reason.

They would need to rewrite the whole thing if they want to fix that.

The problem is once you design a series of systems a certain way, you spend more time trying to make however you choose to do it in the first place work for whatever you want to add to it, then it would take to just rewrite the whole thing to get it to do what you want.

ttbrowne
02-02-2010, 10:26 AM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

I see you're getting tagged by a lot of posters saying the usual bullcrap, "...if ya don't like it, don't play". However things like you just brought up is one of the reasons people don't come back to USTA league tennis after playing it a year or two. So, It's a problem for tennis in America no matter how they try to spin increased membership. It could be a lot more but....
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking

Inner Game
02-02-2010, 10:38 AM
I also play tournaments.

Have you played professionally before? Im sorry, I didnt notice you on TV!

This is why I dont like you, you seem to be want to belittle anyone for actually enjoying whatever they happen to be doing or what their goals are.

You dont believe that people can actually improve and still fit in with the NTRP system, you think it's better that everyone just plays in one big giant level which is idiotic.

You also think this is why you're driving around and seeing empty tennis courts in Minnesota and you assume it's like that anywhere. (guess what? You're in Minnesota, how much tennis weather do you even have? I heard that last year summer was on a Monday.....)

Why dont you spend more time worrying about yourself and your obvious insecurity issues and less time pooh poohing what everyone else is doing.....?

Im glad you're out, come back when you find a positive attitude and find something productive to say.

I hardly ever attack board members personally...and you would be surprised of the quality of tennis in Minnesota...to make general statements like that makes me shake my head....
And WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE where you can decide whats appropriate and whats not...Last time I checked you weren't the King! Freedom of Speech is still alive here in Minnesota....
Everyone's not a sheepeople like you would have it...I love to beat guys like you in tournaments.
Anytime your in Minnesota stop in for a butt kicking....or let me know where you live and I might visit...we could put it on you tube...:)

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 10:39 AM
I see you're getting tagged by a lot of posters saying the usual bullcrap, "...if ya don't like it, don't play". However things like you just brought up is one of the reasons people don't come back to USTA league tennis after playing it a year or two. So, It's a problem for tennis in America no matter how they try to spin increased membership. It could be a lot more but....
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking

1. Overzealous captains

Dont play for overzealous captains then. It's a free society (sort of), you can play for whoever you want.

2. Ringers

The league went nuts to help take care of that this year. I agree this is a disincentive for a lot of people and I do agree it does degrade the quality of the experience but the league took the largest step this year in correcting this by arbitrarily moving a massive amount of players up.

Besides, anyone who dislikes playing a "ringer" will REALLY dislike InnerGame's little silly world where we all play at the same level.... It's illogical for him to even use that as a negative.

3. Stacking

Give me a break. This is one the lamest complaints that players make. I can see if you combine it with ringers where it's an issue, but if 3 teams are the same SKILL LEVEL, then it's really a silly issue.

Players who use this excuse are usually just looking for something to complain about.

If they lose to a supposed "stacked team", it's no different then any other reason to complain why you are losing. Take some responsibility for yourself, hit the practice court, learn how to play better, dont just blame it on "stacking".

And if they win easily to a supposed "stacked team", then too bad, maybe you should consider playing a level up then.....

---

The biggest problem isnt just having people address complaints though, the biggest problem I have is with this guy doing it (InnerGame). He's not interested in any solutions to help the league or solve any problems, he's just looking for reasons to feel bad about it.

He feels mad and upset that anyone is enjoying themselves, so he wants everyone else to feel that way.....

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 10:47 AM
I hardly ever attack board members personally...and you would be surprised of the quality of tennis in Minnesota...to make general statements like that makes me shake my head....
And WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE where you can decide whats appropriate and whats not...Last time I checked you weren't the King! Freedom of Speech is still alive here in Minnesota....
Everyone's not a sheepeople like you would have it...I love to beat guys like you in tournaments.
Anytime your in Minnesota stop in for a butt kicking....or let me know where you live and I might visit...we could put it on you tube...:)

I thought you said you were leaving?

Im sorry, I took you at your word.... I didnt ask you to leave, you said you were leaving.

Well if you're going to stay, dont forget to bring your sign!

And you're the one who claimed that all of the tennis courts are empty around where you live when you drive around, not me.....

How typical, you whine about some problem that doesnt even exist....

You can continue to be a whiner all you want, but Im going to keep calling you out on it.

Free speech is alive and well everywhere, it's not just restricted to things that you enjoy hearing....

Some people enjoy whatever they are doing in tennis, that doesnt make it any less important (it's not like whatever the heck you are doing is all that important anyway....).

The quicker you get that thru your thick skull the quicker we wont have a problem.....

catfish
02-02-2010, 10:50 AM
Yes but you have to be smart and use your brain to figure that out.

Some people are just challenged when it comes to figuring something out so they need a big red button on their iphone to push that gives them everything they want.

I work in IT, and it's amazing how for a bunch of my co-worker's it's all about "how do you do this". They have to be shown everything and if there are too many steps they wont remember.

Meanwhile other people just somehow see what needs to be done and they figure it out. Maybe it's not the most efficient way of getting it done, but once you figure it out, you dont even give the steps much thought.

But the real issue is the leagues and the tournaments are on two different systems that share data.

The league system's function is to keep track of league results, so if you dont have any league results it simply doesnt even know that you exist. (you cant even look up your name)



I read this and laughed. This is so true. It seems like most people don't want to read anything or find information on their own. They always ask other people how to do things. It baffles me how they get through life.

Annika
02-02-2010, 10:50 AM
I thought we were talking about USTA tennis playing. :mad:
Anyhow about tennislink, I like it! Get to see where all my old friends are.

OK I do have another reason I dislike USTA. Why do we have so many teams that are "closed" to new members. I should think that if someone new who has a rating wants to join a team, they should be allowed to join any team they choose since teams can have any number of players? :|

Jracer77
02-02-2010, 10:56 AM
......I should think that if someone new who has a rating wants to join a team, they should be allowed to join any team they choose since teams can have any number of players? :|

Forcing teams to take players??? Well then they just won't get scheduled to play :twisted: .

catfish
02-02-2010, 11:06 AM
I thought we were talking about USTA tennis playing. :mad:
Anyhow about tennislink, I like it! Get to see where all my old friends are.

OK I do have another reason I dislike USTA. Why do we have so many teams that are "closed" to new members. I should think that if someone new who has a rating wants to join a team, they should be allowed to join any team they choose since teams can have any number of players? :|

Team rosters have limits. The Section, District, or local league will have roster limits listed in the rules. And captains choose their own teams for the most part. I doubt anyone would want to be a captain if they were forced to put players on their team.

Inner Game
02-02-2010, 11:09 AM
I thought you said you were leaving?

Im sorry, I took you at your word.... I didnt ask you to leave, you said you were leaving.

Well if you're going to stay, dont forget to bring your sign!

And you're the one who claimed that all of the tennis courts are empty around where you live when you drive around, not me.....

How typical, you whine about some problem that doesnt even exist....

You can continue to be a whiner all you want, but Im going to keep calling you out on it.

Free speech is alive and well everywhere, it's not just restricted to things that you enjoy hearing....

Some people enjoy whatever they are doing in tennis, that doesnt make it any less important (it's not like whatever the heck you are doing is all that important anyway....).

The quicker you get that thru your thick skull the quicker we wont have a problem.....


If you can dish it out...you better be able to take it.....it sounds and feels like you have a very thin skin....
Anyways its always fun to joust with someone like you...

BTW what level do you play in USTA so I have a reference point for future comments...

JoelDali
02-02-2010, 11:24 AM
If you can dish it out...you better be able to take it.....it sounds and feels like you have a very thin skin....
Anyways its always fun to joust with someone like you...

BTW what level do you play in USTA so I have a reference point for future comments...

Can't we all just get along? After this Internet fight ends, lets see some handshakes and EXOs.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e237/JoeDali/mattwreslur.jpg

Matt H.
02-02-2010, 11:33 AM
By the looks of it, it seems that it's the facilities that are being mafia like and trying to get a piece of the pie.

Tennislink registration fee is $18 across the board for all USTA members.

Having clubs charge you $50 for the right to register and join a team is nuts.


For home matches it comes out between $6-8 bucks a person to host. That's the court/light fees, balls, and drinks.

Matt H.
02-02-2010, 11:36 AM
When it comes to ringers and cheats, I really only have one complaint within my league. The USTA coordinator turns a blind eye to it all too.

This one captain has a reputation for being ruthless. He recruits ringers, then at opportune times he instructs them to tank, or he'll straight up lie when recording the scores. One of his players was on the verge of being bumped, so he re-registered and joined the team by spelling his last name wrong.

stringerhz
02-02-2010, 11:37 AM
USTA League tennis could be so much more enjoyable; the idea of it is fine.
I've played and captained for 8 years now. I've been to local, sectional and national playoffs (mixed, won it, yeah, got a vase). I'm pretty sure I am now done with all that.

I'm not saying that the following statement is the RULE when applied to my experiences, but there's enough truth and frequency to various parts of it that it encapsulates my current feelings:

Why should I leave my family on a Saturday night to travel to some cold, dark club an hour away in order to pay money to participate in a crappy tennis match against sandbagging teams and unfriendly opponents?

So let me answer that before any responders tear into me - I have decided that I should not. Makes me just a little sad but I do also sense the freedom of it. And if the fun goes out of league tennis for others like me the USTA will slowly see its participant base erode. But they won't get it until it's too late.

Thanks for the opening thread. I don't see it as whining. I consider it more like tossing a line out there to see other ways that this has gone wrong.

Grover Sparkman
02-02-2010, 11:51 AM
I hate the money-grubbing quality of the USTA in general. $40 to become a USTA member is one thing, but $25 a league on top of that plus court fees is crap.

Cindysphinx
02-02-2010, 12:07 PM
I thought we were talking about USTA tennis playing. :mad:
Anyhow about tennislink, I like it! Get to see where all my old friends are.

OK I do have another reason I dislike USTA. Why do we have so many teams that are "closed" to new members. I should think that if someone new who has a rating wants to join a team, they should be allowed to join any team they choose since teams can have any number of players? :|

Oh, dear me. Nope, I won't take someone just because they have a rating. That would be a nice way to get a roster full of nutters.

Around here, anyone who can't find a team has a viable option: Captain your own dang team. I am surprised that newcomers are so allergic to captaining that they would rather have no team than start a new one.

Cindy -- who started her own 2.5 team despite never having played a single competitive match in her life

Matt H.
02-02-2010, 12:13 PM
Oh, dear me. Nope, I won't take someone just because they have a rating. That would be a nice way to get a roster full of nutters.

Around here, anyone who can't find a team has a viable option: Captain your own dang team. I am surprised that newcomers are so allergic to captaining that they would rather have no team than start a new one.

Cindy -- who started her own 2.5 team despite never having played a single competitive match in her life

Because a newcomer just rolls into town and magically knows 12-14 people of the same rating? not likely.


Annika-

it doesn't work that way, either. The vast majority of the time, a team has been together awhile and know each other on a personal level of some kind.

The polite and best option is to find out who the captains are in your area, contact them, and ask to join. Unless the captain is a stuck-up a-hole, the most likely response will be an invite to go out and hit with a couple of the teammates. There is a social aspect to the league, beyond tennis playing skills and ability.

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 12:19 PM
When it comes to ringers and cheats, I really only have one complaint within my league. The USTA coordinator turns a blind eye to it all too.

This one captain has a reputation for being ruthless. He recruits ringers, then at opportune times he instructs them to tank, or he'll straight up lie when recording the scores. One of his players was on the verge of being bumped, so he re-registered and joined the team by spelling his last name wrong.

Wow, that sounds like someone in my area. (and the coordinators)

It's people like that who created the need to move so many people up this year and the need for a system that has very little human or coordinator intervention.

(but again, I dont see that as a problem where the league is totally useless and we're all going to sit and home and cry rather then participate and get something positive out of it like sign boy likely does. It's just a problem that needed to be solved.....)

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 12:24 PM
I thought we were talking about USTA tennis playing. :mad:
Anyhow about tennislink, I like it! Get to see where all my old friends are.

OK I do have another reason I dislike USTA. Why do we have so many teams that are "closed" to new members. I should think that if someone new who has a rating wants to join a team, they should be allowed to join any team they choose since teams can have any number of players? :|

That's not practical because depending on how many matches you play, you can only afford to have so many players.

Once you get enough and they enjoy it enough to come back, you end up really doing a disservice to them if you keep adding more. (because you are taking away matches from them, only X number of people get to play every night)

Not to mention it's really not all that fair to "FORCE" anyone to take anyone.

Besides worrying about winning, the real problem is getting people who are reliable and willing to show up on time (or show up at all), and who pay their expenses, etc....

The real problem is that some local leagues do not help a whole lot when it comes to helping people find new teams or helping people start teams.

In the old days we had the rating clinics that we went to where you could meet everyone, and that was sort of the first step for players if they wanted to get started, but nowdays in some areas there is nothing like that.

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 12:25 PM
BTW what level do you play in USTA so I have a reference point for future comments...

Why, Open Level of course, according to you. (since you dont believe in levels....)

Let us know when you make it on TV and we can watch you play, until then stop disparaging what other people are doing as if you're any better.....

catfish
02-02-2010, 12:33 PM
Oh, dear me. Nope, I won't take someone just because they have a rating. That would be a nice way to get a roster full of nutters.

Around here, anyone who can't find a team has a viable option: Captain your own dang team. I am surprised that newcomers are so allergic to captaining that they would rather have no team than start a new one.

Cindy -- who started her own 2.5 team despite never having played a single competitive match in her life

Like Cindy, I started my own team when I was a newbie. I didn't sit around and whine because I couldn't get on a team. I didn't know many players, so I got help from the coordinator. It was a great experience, and I learned a lot about how USTA leagues worked. (I quickly became involved in leagues as a volunteer and later became a league coordinator, but that's another story. :))

In my area (unlike Javier's) most of the coordinators help out new players looking for teams. When I was a coordinator, I helped many new players find teams, and helped new captains find players. I kept an up to date list of players looking for teams and captains looking for players, and posted the lists on a website. The current coordinator has kept up with that practice. Yes, some coordinators are slack, but not all of them.

Cindysphinx
02-02-2010, 12:42 PM
^You know how I found my teammates for that first little 2.5 team?

I cold-called women off of the league's list of available players. The first ones to respond were in.

Cindy -- who is the only one of those first 11 players who is still playing league tennis, which is a pity

Inner Game
02-02-2010, 01:00 PM
Why, Open Level of course, according to you. (since you dont believe in levels....)

Let us know when you make it on TV and we can watch you play, until then stop disparaging what other people are doing as if you're any better.....

Hey bud...as long as people are out playing tennis for FUN it's great for them and tennis in general...But I don't get these personal attacks....I doubt an IT geek like you ever played higher then 4.0...Better check your string tension...it seems quite a bit loose to me...LOL
This thread was about what people don't like about USTA leagues...so lets just get back to that....If you don't like the topic change the channel....(don't read it)

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 01:10 PM
In my area (unlike Javier's) most of the coordinators help out new players looking for teams. When I was a coordinator, I helped many new players find teams, and helped new captains find players. I kept an up to date list of players looking for teams and captains looking for players, and posted the lists on a website. The current coordinator has kept up with that practice. Yes, some coordinators are slack, but not all of them.

Ive actually done the same things as you.

My teams are typically always full (because everyone decides to come back), but in the past coordinators would give new players my phone number and other captain's phone numbers and then they would just call us out of the blue.

It seems annoying, but I think I helped at least 5 or 6 of them find another team because I know a lot of the other captains and I know which teams struggle to find enough players and which captains are going to be more likely to take a brand new player that they dont know.

It helps the quality of the league because you know you'll have plenty of opponents to play then, which means you get enough matches to make it worthwhile.

Othertimes coordinators would email all the captains, which I think is helpful as well. (if some captain is looking for someone they can engage the new player from there)

But this year, the local league has this website they came out with last year. They are charging each of us $1 on our registration for the thing (I count that it's making over $5000 in one year just from that).

And they are charging the local clubs a rather large advertisement fee to put a ad on there. Which is kind of a crackpot scheme because the main only time someone goes on that site is the captains use it to register that they intend to run a team. (how new captains know enough to do that is beyond me.....)

They have another part where players can find teams and teams can find players which is fine, but we were informed a few weeks ago that if some player wants to find a team they will just be told to go to the website.

Which I think stinks, it means the coordinators are doing even less to help out the process. (and in a year where it needs even more attention because of all the level changes and low numbers of participants at the lower levels)

They do not seem to understand that a website is not always some magical place where you post random information and it goes out to everyone who wants to see it. There has to be something going on there that players are interested in it you want it to be useful. (like a message board or something like TW has done here)

They would be better off using facebook, or just going back to traditional methods like phone calls and email (which are more direct).

J_R_B
02-02-2010, 01:19 PM
I thought we were talking about USTA tennis playing. :mad:
Anyhow about tennislink, I like it! Get to see where all my old friends are.

OK I do have another reason I dislike USTA. Why do we have so many teams that are "closed" to new members. I should think that if someone new who has a rating wants to join a team, they should be allowed to join any team they choose since teams can have any number of players? :|

Our district has a 20 player roster limit (which I think sucks...). Only 1 or 2 teams are maxed out, however, and it's easy to find a captain who will take new players.

ALten1
02-02-2010, 01:37 PM
Our district has a 20 player roster limit (which I think sucks...). Only 1 or 2 teams are maxed out, however, and it's easy to find a captain who will take new players.


I don't want to play on any team with 20 members, it limits playing time. We don't get to play USTA in winter here so I have to get all the matches in I can while I have the chance. It is funny though how some teams with 14 or 15 players can't fill a roster come match time. Nothing worse than driving 25 minutes to be told we don't need you tonight.

Topaz
02-02-2010, 02:08 PM
The roster limit in part will be set by how many teams are typically in your area. For the last 2 seasons, we've had 22-23 different 3.5 women's teams...that's a lot of matches! So, they actually increased our max roster size since there were so many matches crunched into just two months. It helped considerably.

But, if you are in an area that doesn't have as many teams, it makes sense to have the max limit set lower.

ALten1
02-02-2010, 02:16 PM
The roster limit in part will be set by how many teams are typically in your area. For the last 2 seasons, we've had 22-23 different 3.5 women's teams...that's a lot of matches! So, they actually increased our max roster size since there were so many matches crunched into just two months. It helped considerably.

But, if you are in an area that doesn't have as many teams, it makes sense to have the max limit set lower.


Could they not extend the flights so that the teams wouldn't have so many people?

Topaz
02-02-2010, 02:29 PM
Could they not extend the flights so that the teams wouldn't have so many people?

We were given a choice in the captain's meetings...either one huge flight with lots of matches or two flights with less matches. We actually wanted more matches! I gess we're glutton for punishment! Lol, but typically, especially during the season, we don't have problems filling line-ups...at least not on my team. (which I don't captain...but I am a past captain, and like Cindy, captained the very first team I ever played on...talk about baptism by fire!!!)

cak
02-02-2010, 02:41 PM
There has to be something going on there that players are interested in it you want it to be useful. (like a message board or something like TW has done here)

They would be better off using facebook, or just going back to traditional methods like phone calls and email (which are more direct).

I posted on this board and found a team. So it does work...

Annika
02-02-2010, 03:00 PM
repeat of post

Annika
02-02-2010, 03:06 PM
:roll: Oh, dear me. Nope, I won't take someone just because they have a rating. That would be a nice way to get a roster full of nutters. :roll:

Matt, thanks for your thoughtful reply. :)

Cindysphinx
02-02-2010, 04:35 PM
:roll: :roll:

Matt, thanks for your thoughtful reply. :)
I didn't mean to be rude. Sorry, Annika.

What I meant is that there are some folks who, erm, have trouble playing nicely in the sandbox. They bounce from team to team, but never seem to get invited back. Whether to take a chance on these players or anyone else with a poor reputation has to belong to the captain. I mean, there are people who will flat-out stiff you on fees. You have to be careful.

Then once you have an established team, you don't often have openings. When you do, you want to take someone who fills a need. If I have openings and only have one singles player, it wouldn't help me at all if a bunch of doubles players could sign without my say-so.

I remember when I was looking for a 3.0 team that I thought the system was a bit exclusive and cliquish because I was the one on the outside trying to talk my way onto a team. I still think that, but I understand the reasons why.

cak
02-02-2010, 05:10 PM
Sections really differ on how teams are made up. For instance, in NorCal, I don't believe there is any limit on roster size. Or, if there is, it must be around 50 or something. There are some huge teams out there. However, each team finds their own home courts. So teams can be based out of tennis clubs, or community associations, or parks, or just about anywhere you can reserve courts. Heck, if you have two courts in your back yard you are golden. Clubs tend to have membership rules. For instance, my club can fill in teams with non-members if a particular team is in need of players, however, if you are a member of the club and you have the rating the captain has to take you on the team and play you twice. I know some clubs in the area don't take non-members on their USTA teams. And some folks don't belong to any club, and either actively get recruited to fill in country club teams, or run teams on public park courts.

Annika
02-02-2010, 08:36 PM
I didn't mean to be rude. Sorry, Annika.


No offense taken. :)

I think someone answered my question before by saying if a new person called the Captain, perhaps she might get invited to a practice session before any decision was made. And that sounds more than reasonable to me.

But sometimes getting the Captain's phone number is not so easy. BTW this hasn't happened to me. But some newcomers I played with in the fall (both good young, strong players with potential), were asking me who they should call, and where were the list of the teams they could possibly join, and how to get the team captain's phone numbers to call. I think you see what I mean. They can't get onto TennisLink unless they're a member, right? I told them to call me and I'd give them numbers and names.

JavierLW
02-02-2010, 09:15 PM
But sometimes getting the Captain's phone number is not so easy. BTW this hasn't happened to me. But some newcomers I played with in the fall (both good young, strong players with potential), were asking me who they should call, and where were the list of the teams they could possibly join, and how to get the team captain's phone numbers to call. I think you see what I mean. They can't get onto TennisLink unless they're a member, right? I told them to call me and I'd give them numbers and names.

Just think, if they called our local USTA Tennis Coordinators, they would just get a link to some website.

Cindysphinx
02-02-2010, 09:39 PM
No offense taken. :)

But sometimes getting the Captain's phone number is not so easy.

Around here, it's "Don't call us; we'll call you." League coordinators are not supposed to give out contact info for captains, as we would quickly be innundated with pleas from players hoping to join our teams.

Instead, the coordinators keep a list of players seeking teams and circulate that to captains. I haven't picked up a player off of this list in years, largely because it is so time consuming to meet with a new player before you take them on. Instead, I just rely on my teammates to find new prospects, and I take them sight unseen based on that recommendation.

I get a lot of inquiries from folks who got my number from someone, and it does take time to respond politely.

OrangePower
02-02-2010, 10:20 PM
No offense taken. :)

I think someone answered my question before by saying if a new person called the Captain, perhaps she might get invited to a practice session before any decision was made. And that sounds more than reasonable to me.

But sometimes getting the Captain's phone number is not so easy. BTW this hasn't happened to me. But some newcomers I played with in the fall (both good young, strong players with potential), were asking me who they should call, and where were the list of the teams they could possibly join, and how to get the team captain's phone numbers to call. I think you see what I mean. They can't get onto TennisLink unless they're a member, right? I told them to call me and I'd give them numbers and names.

I don't use tennislink since I'm in Norcal and we have our own site, but I'm pretty sure anyone can go into tennislink and search for teams.

On the Norcal site, there are links for emailing team captains. I've had a few people email me out of the blue. Usually I'll email them back asking a bit about their playing history and so on, and then if it makes sense I'll invite them to hit with me, and take it from there. I've made a couple of good recruits that way!

mlewis721
02-03-2010, 12:35 AM
The user interface for tennislink is terrible. I mean you can't even look up a player's tournament records UNLESS they also played leagues as well. That is lame.

Yes you can. Here's the page: (http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/rankings/rankinghome.aspx)

Careful. It's case sensitive. raiden does not equal Raiden.

Topaz
02-03-2010, 04:31 AM
^^^But won't that only work if the person has played tournaments that results in a ranking? Not all tournament wins results in ranking points. And depending on their record, they could be on the eligible player or ineligible player list.

You can do it, but is time consuming and clunky...whereas to look up someone who plays leagues, it is much easier. It would be nice to have such an easy equivalent for tournaments.

Topaz
02-03-2010, 04:35 AM
Around here, it's "Don't call us; we'll call you." League coordinators are not supposed to give out contact info for captains, as we would quickly be innundated with pleas from players hoping to join our teams.

Instead, the coordinators keep a list of players seeking teams and circulate that to captains. I haven't picked up a player off of this list in years, largely because it is so time consuming to meet with a new player before you take them on. Instead, I just rely on my teammates to find new prospects, and I take them sight unseen based on that recommendation.

I get a lot of inquiries from folks who got my number from someone, and it does take time to respond politely.

Pretty much the same here. Plus, I'd be really ticked if the coordinator was giving out my info without me knowing.

Our LC used to maintain an interested player list online, so captains who were short of players could find people on that list; and new people could send in their info to be put on the list. I've never had to use it, since I was captaining right out of the gate. For that first team, the LC pretty much handed me a list of people, and I used tennislink to try to figure out how to play them.

Like Cindy, I am one of 3 of us from that team that are still playing. I'm still friends and occasional teammates with both of them, though!

catfish
02-03-2010, 05:11 AM
Just think, if they called our local USTA Tennis Coordinators, they would just get a link to some website.


Most captains do not want their contact information given out to anyone who asks. Thats why we started using a list of players looking for teams, and a list of captains looking for players. The list is kept on a website, and captains are frequently reminded to look at the list if they need players.

JavierLW
02-03-2010, 06:47 AM
Most captains do not want their contact information given out to anyone who asks. Thats why we started using a list of players looking for teams, and a list of captains looking for players. The list is kept on a website, and captains are frequently reminded to look at the list if they need players.

They should just email out the players info then like they used too. (rather then give out the captain's info)

Just telling new players to just go to some website is sort of like if you went to a store and needed some assistance and someone told you to just go wait in a room and if someone feels like it, they will come and notice you are there....

Websites are not a magical place where everyone sees what is there, no matter how many times you remind someone....

Maybe that seems wrong, but if the goal is to help grow tennis then you need to actually work a little harder to help people out.

mlewis721
02-03-2010, 09:01 AM
^^^But won't that only work if the person has played tournaments that results in a ranking? Not all tournament wins results in ranking points. And depending on their record, they could be on the eligible player or ineligible player list.

You can do it, but is time consuming and clunky...whereas to look up someone who plays leagues, it is much easier. It would be nice to have such an easy equivalent for tournaments.

SEE POST #80. THERE IS AN EQUIVALENT FOR TOURNAMENTS!

catfish
02-03-2010, 09:08 AM
They should just email out the players info then like they used too. (rather then give out the captain's info)

Just telling new players to just go to some website is sort of like if you went to a store and needed some assistance and someone told you to just go wait in a room and if someone feels like it, they will come and notice you are there....

Websites are not a magical place where everyone sees what is there, no matter how many times you remind someone....

Maybe that seems wrong, but if the goal is to help grow tennis then you need to actually work a little harder to help people out.

I hear what you're saying, but there are other things to consider. When I was a coordinator I tried 3 different methods for helping players find teams, none of which made everyone happy. One method was a message board, which didn't work well. The 2nd method was like you describe. For example, If I had a 3.5 man looking for a team, I sent an with that player's contact info to all 3.5 male captains. However, I'd get back 50 email replies saying things like, "I already told you I don't need any players!" and "I don't need players, take me off this distribution list" and "I only want emails about league information", and "We can't put club non-members on our teams", etc., etc., etc. Since I was dealing with a league of about 200 captains who all preferred a different method of emailing, and I can't read everyone's mind and know who is looking for players at any given time, the website list works best.

So I don't like to hear that coordinators need to work a little harder. I agree that some are slackers. But take it from me, if you have never been a coordinator, you can't begin to imagine the amount of work that goes into it. And the number of people that don't have a clue what you do and go around and tell everyone that you are lazy and don't help people. :cry: It's a very tough job. I still help with local leagues, but in a background capacity. I don't think there is a more thankless job out there. Some coordinators are volunteers, and some make money....but nobody gets rich off coordinating leagues.

Topaz
02-03-2010, 09:10 AM
SEE POST #80. THERE IS AN EQUIVALENT FOR TOURNAMENTS!

YES I SAW IT. PLEASE READ MY POST. THE EQUIVALENT FOR TOURNAMENTS IS CLUNKY AND CUMBERSOME TO USE. STOP SHOUTING. I AM WELL VERSED ON TENNISLINK, THANKS.

raiden031
02-03-2010, 09:21 AM
Sure you can, it just takes an extra step or two. One year I only played tournaments but I could still check my record. You just find someone in any tournament you played who played in a league that year and backtrack through them. Your whole tournament record for that year is shown.

Yes but you have to be smart and use your brain to figure that out.

Some people are just challenged when it comes to figuring something out so they need a big red button on their iphone to push that gives them everything they want.

I work in IT, and it's amazing how for a bunch of my co-worker's it's all about "how do you do this". They have to be shown everything and if there are too many steps they wont remember.

Meanwhile other people just somehow see what needs to be done and they figure it out. Maybe it's not the most efficient way of getting it done, but once you figure it out, you dont even give the steps much thought.

But the real issue is the leagues and the tournaments are on two different systems that share data.

The league system's function is to keep track of league results, so if you dont have any league results it simply doesnt even know that you exist. (you cant even look up your name)

There used to be a good site called tennisinformation.com that had all the tournament information and sometimes I had good luck searching for peole there, but it doesnt seem to have everything for some reason.

They would need to rewrite the whole thing if they want to fix that.

The problem is once you design a series of systems a certain way, you spend more time trying to make however you choose to do it in the first place work for whatever you want to add to it, then it would take to just rewrite the whole thing to get it to do what you want.

I'm one of the brainless persons you mention, a software engineer with a BS in Computer Engineering and MS in Information Systems.

What you are saying is absurd. Tennislink provides access to BOTH League and Tournament information, yet you can't access the tournament information UNLESS the player plays in a league, or you link to their playing record through the backdoor approach of linking to them from another player's profile who played in leagues.

That is a ridiculous asinine design, and how dare you accuse the user of not having a brain for having a problem with this! I could develop an interface 10X better than Tennislink. If they are going to link tournament results and league results together, at least make it useful enough that you can find the damn tournament results.

JavierLW
02-03-2010, 09:35 AM
I hear what you're saying, but there are other things to consider. When I was a coordinator I tried 3 different methods for helping players find teams, none of which made everyone happy. One method was a message board, which didn't work well. The 2nd method was like you describe. For example, If I had a 3.5 man looking for a team, I sent an with that player's contact info to all 3.5 male captains. However, I'd get back 50 email replies saying things like, "I already told you I don't need any players!" and "I don't need players, take me off this distribution list" and "I only want emails about league information", and "We can't put club non-members on our teams", etc., etc., etc. Since I was dealing with a league of about 200 captains who all preferred a different method of emailing, and I can't read everyone's mind and know who is looking for players at any given time, the website list works best.

So I don't like to hear that coordinators need to work a little harder. I agree that some are slackers. But take it from me, if you have never been a coordinator, you can't begin to imagine the amount of work that goes into it. And the number of people that don't have a clue what you do and go around and tell everyone that you are lazy and don't help people. :cry: It's a very tough job. I still help with local leagues, but in a background capacity. I don't think there is a more thankless job out there. Some coordinators are volunteers, and some make money....but nobody gets rich off coordinating leagues.

You are right, no matter how you facilitate the issue when it comes to new players you will get complaints.

So you have to weigh which complaints are actually valid with which ones are really more effective.

Giving out captain's phone numbers will generate a complaint because they dont want to get a phone call out of the blue. I think that's a very valid complaint, the thought of your phone number going out to random people is not cool. (funny though in our area they stuck our phone number right on the website. I asked to get mine removed once because I dont like it to be easily searchable but I was ignored!!!)

I think sending out the new players info to all of the captains is still the best way. If some captain complain about that, then so what?, it's email, they can just ignore it..... That's probably the least of their problems...

The website is still the worst, it doesnt get the job done when it comes to helping out new players and it's the least "customer service" method available.

Really what needs to happen is the District Coordinators need to get involved and generate a more formal program for how new players make their way onto leagues. (like in the old days they had the self rate clinic which facilitated that purpose)

In our area one year, they started a separate USTA league in the same area that was attached some lessons that the local Tennis and Education Foundation were running. It generated 4 new 3.0 teams with over 60 new players.

But they didnt keep it up and like the rest of the league, it dwindled in numbers as they never did any work to get anymore new players like they did in the first place. That's usually what happens around here, coordinators spend a TON of time on existing teams, but the league spends no time trying to outreach new players.

Im not blaming any one coordinator, even though they do get paid around here. ("not getting rich" is NOT an excuse to not have some pride in your work and try to do the best job you can, why take the low paying job if you are not going to do that???)

It's more about the combination of them and the local USTA around here not coming out with a decent plan, and rather then continuing to help the game grow and improve the quality of their leagues for all players, they tend to only think about the playoffs and helping keep the existing players from getting moved up so they can stay at their lower levels.

beernutz
02-03-2010, 09:56 AM
I'm one of the brainless persons you mention, a software engineer with a BS in Computer Engineering and MS in Information Systems.

What you are saying is absurd. Tennislink provides access to BOTH League and Tournament information, yet you can't access the tournament information UNLESS the player plays in a league, or you link to their playing record through the backdoor approach of linking to them from another player's profile who played in leagues.

That is a ridiculous asinine design, and how dare you accuse the user of not having a brain for having a problem with this! I could develop an interface 10X better than Tennislink. If they are going to link tournament results and league results together, at least make it useful enough that you can find the damn tournament results.

Thank you for saying this. I have a similar educational background to Raiden although I work in academics not industry yet I suppose I am not fully using my brain either because I also think TennisLink's UI stinks.

North
02-03-2010, 10:22 AM
What you are saying is absurd. Tennislink provides access to BOTH League and Tournament information, yet you can't access the tournament information UNLESS the player plays in a league, or you link to their playing record through the backdoor approach of linking to them from another player's profile who played in leagues.

Yeah. I only stay in USTA because I play tournaments. I have no league play at all, so I essentially don't exist on Tennislink - lol.

Cindysphinx
02-03-2010, 10:39 AM
Thank you for saying this. I have a similar educational background to Raiden although I work in academics not industry yet I suppose I am not fully using my brain either because I also think TennisLink's UI stinks.

Yeah, I don't understand how any thinking person -- especially one who claims to be in this field like Javier -- could possibly defend TennisLink.

Sorry, but that attitude really pushes my buttons. You have a computer problem, and here comes the snooty, arrogant IT guy to roll his eyes because you can't figure things out on your own. Hey, pal. It's *your* job to make this stuff easy because the business isn't going to make any money if I have to spend all of my time troubleshooting the computers rather doing what I do that actually brings money in the door. Ooooh, it makes me so *mad!*

Regarding the best way to get new player info to new captains, I think it is reasonable to expect a new player to lift a finger and access a web site if they are serious about joining a team. Given that new players often have the option of starting their own team, I don't know how much coddling they need. Go to the web site and list yourself, network as best you can, and hope for the best.

All of us but especially captains get a ton of tennis-related e-mail. If my league were sending out new player notices one by one, I would definitely ask that they do something else. Like set up a web site instead, as Catfish suggested.

ttbrowne
02-03-2010, 10:52 AM
1. Overzealous captains

Dont play for overzealous captains then. It's a free society (sort of), you can play for whoever you want.

2. Ringers

The league went nuts to help take care of that this year. I agree this is a disincentive for a lot of people and I do agree it does degrade the quality of the experience but the league took the largest step this year in correcting this by arbitrarily moving a massive amount of players up.

Besides, anyone who dislikes playing a "ringer" will REALLY dislike InnerGame's little silly world where we all play at the same level.... It's illogical for him to even use that as a negative.

3. Stacking

Give me a break. This is one the lamest complaints that players make. I can see if you combine it with ringers where it's an issue, but if 3 teams are the same SKILL LEVEL, then it's really a silly issue.

Players who use this excuse are usually just looking for something to complain about.

If they lose to a supposed "stacked team", it's no different then any other reason to complain why you are losing. Take some responsibility for yourself, hit the practice court, learn how to play better, dont just blame it on "stacking".

And if they win easily to a supposed "stacked team", then too bad, maybe you should consider playing a level up then.....

---

The biggest problem isnt just having people address complaints though, the biggest problem I have is with this guy doing it (InnerGame). He's not interested in any solutions to help the league or solve any problems, he's just looking for reasons to feel bad about it.

He feels mad and upset that anyone is enjoying themselves, so he wants everyone else to feel that way.....

You should've just shortened this to "Just shut up and drink your Jim Jones Kool-aid and think good thoughts and everything will be fine. Ummm gulp gulp gulp. See how happy I am?!!"

JavierLW
02-03-2010, 11:02 AM
That is a ridiculous asinine design, and how dare you accuse the user of not having a brain for having a problem with this! I could develop an interface 10X better than Tennislink. If they are going to link tournament results and league results together, at least make it useful enough that you can find the damn tournament results.

It's it's so easy then I suggest you volunteer your time and take the time to write it.

The Interface has nothing to do with how they access the Tournament information, it's a database issue. If you cant see that, then you need to go back and get your degree again or take a refresher course.

(or get some real world business experience with software design or project management.....)

heninfan99
02-03-2010, 11:10 AM
Maybe there is no conflict of interest. Maybe they never ask players is they played in high school and they never try out those players first. Perhaps you are correct. They would never game the system for a win.

Perhaps all captains can dedicate many hours a week to trying to recruit and trying out mis-rated local phenoms.

And perhaps I'll ride a dragon to work tomorrow.





I'd be for a female coordinator running the mens side and vice-versa which is an option in my league.

I imagine many first time captains take the bulk of what's assigned to them. It takes a little while to get used to how it all works.




It is not a conflict of interest for coordinators to play in leagues. Try finding a USTA league coordinator who doesn't play league tennis. I'll bet you won't be able to. :)

And frankly, it is up to captains to find players for their teams. Who would be willing to captain a team full of players that have been "assigned" to them? I wouldn't because it would be one big headache. Some captains are not interested in winning the league, and that's fine. Some captains constantly "recruit" players to form teams that they think can win the league. And that's fine too, if that's what they want to do.

Why do you think that coordinators get "first dibbs" on players? Coordinators can't force anyone to play on a team that they don't want to play on. Captains can ask anyone they want to be on their team, and players have a choice in the matter too. If a player is asked to be on more than one team, they choose which one they'd rather play on. League tennis is like everything else. Birds of a feather flock together. The better players often end up on the same teams because they want to play with better players. There's nothing wrong with that.

Sumo
02-03-2010, 11:51 AM
It's it's so easy then I suggest you volunteer your time and take the time to write it.

The Interface has nothing to do with how they access the Tournament information, it's a database issue. If you cant see that, then you need to go back and get your degree again or take a refresher course.

(or get some real world business experience with software design or project management.....)

The above, along with the smugness of your avatar, makes this post hilarious.

catfish
02-03-2010, 12:03 PM
Maybe there is no conflict of interest. Maybe they never ask players is they played in high school and they never try out those players first. Perhaps you are correct. They would never game the system for a win.

Perhaps all captains can dedicate many hours a week to trying to recruit and trying out mis-rated local phenoms.

And perhaps I'll ride a dragon to work tomorrow.



I'd be for a female coordinator running the mens side and vice-versa which is an option in my league.

I imagine many first time captains take the bulk of what's assigned to them. It takes a little while to get used to how it all works.

I can't speak for every coordinator in the US, but most of the ones that I know have full time day jobs, and they handle the league coordinator job evenings and weekends from their home. How they'd have time to screen every new player is beyond me. :confused: Most of us barely have enough time to play tennis ourselves.

One thing I learned when I was a coordinator, is that you have to have thick skin because many captains and players get so much enjoyment out of maligning you. I see a lot of misinformation on this board, and sometimes I speak up and try to give the perspective of the coordinator. But I should know by now that it falls on deaf ears.

raiden031
02-03-2010, 12:05 PM
It's it's so easy then I suggest you volunteer your time and take the time to write it.

The Interface has nothing to do with how they access the Tournament information, it's a database issue. If you cant see that, then you need to go back and get your degree again or take a refresher course.

(or get some real world business experience with software design or project management.....)

Why would I volunteer, I'm not profitting from USTA's services. I pay tennislink fees, so I can complain about the UI.

I've been a software engineer with 6 years professional experience. I've worked on a project that was worth $200 million dollars.

If they can display both league and tournament information on the same screen, then I don't see why they can't allow a user to query for tournament information by itself. Their technical or financial reasons for not doing so aren't my problem. If they can get to the information at all, then its not a database issue.

mlewis721
02-03-2010, 12:22 PM
What you are saying is absurd. Tennislink provides access to BOTH League and Tournament information, yet you can't access the tournament information UNLESS the player plays in a league, or you link to their playing record through the backdoor approach of linking to them from another player's profile who played in leagues.


Simply untrue.
Perfect example and well known to all: Jo11yroger.
He only plays tournaments. He does not play leagues.
I provided a link in Post #80 for the form. It looks like this:


http://i46.tinypic.com/jsn241.gif

mlewis721
02-03-2010, 01:02 PM
YES I SAW IT. PLEASE READ MY POST. THE EQUIVALENT FOR TOURNAMENTS IS CLUNKY AND CUMBERSOME TO USE. STOP SHOUTING. I AM WELL VERSED ON TENNISLINK, THANKS.

I am only shouting because you appear to be deaf. If you feel that adding StartDate and EndDate to a FirstName and LastName query is cumbersome and clunky then I can only imagine your shot tolerance on a tennis court. The calendar selector tool is identical to that used on most online banking sites and should be familiar to all.

Is TennisLink great? No. But when you say something cannot be done on TennisLink and I show you that it can, you should just say something like: "Oops....my bad."

BTW, finding this tournament ranking page is only difficult because their webmaster hasn't seen fit to make a link available in the lower level navigation bar. If you send a note to the webmaster, they could add it. But the function is there and works just fine.

Annika
02-03-2010, 01:04 PM
I am only shouting because you appear to be deaf. If you feel that adding StartDate and EndDate to a FirstName and LastName query is cumbersome and clunky then I can only imagine your shot tolerance on a tennis court.

Apples to oranges. :confused:

precision2b
02-03-2010, 01:19 PM
This thread is getting good!!!!:lol:

sureshs
02-03-2010, 01:19 PM
Yeah, I don't understand how any thinking person -- especially one who claims to be in this field like Javier -- could possibly defend TennisLink.

Sorry, but that attitude really pushes my buttons. You have a computer problem, and here comes the snooty, arrogant IT guy to roll his eyes because you can't figure things out on your own. Hey, pal. It's *your* job to make this stuff easy because the business isn't going to make any money if I have to spend all of my time troubleshooting the computers rather doing what I do that actually brings money in the door. Ooooh, it makes me so *mad!*


That is right. The snooty administrator went out of business years ago. He has been replaced by automated administrative tools and remote support (often outsourced). He had his 15 minutes worth of fame, when he sneered at users, played tricks with their accounts, gave instructions at high speed so you couldn't remember them, and held upper management to ransom. Now he is just another guy and is relegated to a regular role - that is, do your job quietly and make things work, like everyone else. No heroics needed. Anyone anywhere in the world can do what he does, probably at a fraction of his salary.

mlewis721
02-03-2010, 01:25 PM
Apples to oranges. :confused:

So....sue me. I'm thinking he's got a 2 stroke shot tolerance. Serve...return...whamo, into the fence.

JavierLW
02-03-2010, 01:59 PM
If they can get to the information at all, then its not a database issue.

But they cant get to the information "at all" depending on where you're looking at it from.

The player search field only querys a person's league participation history. (think about the next screen it goes too).

That's where the gap is, it's programmed to give you a list of all the teams you were on and in what particular year.

Then if you pick a player for a particular year, the next page (the one that query's all of their matches) is what somehow has access to the tournament data.

So they would either have to:

1) Find a clever way to list tournaments you have participated in on the same screen as where it lists all of your teams. That would solve it right there.

2) Skip the Team List thing altogether, and reprogram what the initial search does to bring up all matching players regardless if they were on a team or not.

3) Reprogram the whole thing. Sometimes when you write things a certain way, you spend far more time trying to make new functions "fit" in whatever you already had then you would be to start over.

Ultimately it's all so you dont have to spend 4 or 5 extra seconds while you're scouting all of your opponents.

It's probably hardly a huge deal, especially when you consider papatennis wants them to build him some new tennis courts and give his kids free tennis lessons.

raiden031
02-03-2010, 02:07 PM
But they cant get to the information "at all" depending on where you're looking at it from.

The player search field only querys a person's league participation history. (think about the next screen it goes too).

That's where the gap is, it's programmed to give you a list of all the teams you were on and in what particular year.

Then if you pick a player for a particular year, the next page (the one that query's all of their matches) is what somehow has access to the tournament data.

So they would either have to:

1) Find a clever way to list tournaments you have participated in on the same screen as where it lists all of your teams. That would solve it right there.

2) Skip the Team List thing altogether, and reprogram what the initial search does to bring up all matching players regardless if they were on a team or not.

3) Reprogram the whole thing. Sometimes when you write things a certain way, you spend far more time trying to make new functions "fit" in whatever you already had then you would be to start over.

Ultimately it's all so you dont have to spend 4 or 5 extra seconds while you're scouting all of your opponents.

It's probably hardly a huge deal, especially when you consider papatennis wants them to build him some new tennis courts and give his kids free tennis lessons.

I don't care how poorly designed their system is, but if its using an industry standard RDBMS, then they can query any data they want. They just have to put together the code and presentation logic for these queries. Not a big deal.

raiden031
02-03-2010, 02:09 PM
Simply untrue.
Perfect example and well known to all: Jo11yroger.
He only plays tournaments. He does not play leagues.
I provided a link in Post #80 for the form. It looks like this:


http://i46.tinypic.com/jsn241.gif

Unfortunately I can't see what that pic is because that site is blocked here...

Let me ask you this...if I want to look up a random player named "Bob Smith", who only plays tournaments and has never played in a league, and I have no idea of any tournaments this player has ever participated in, how would I do so through tennislink?

Topaz
02-03-2010, 02:11 PM
I am only shouting because you appear to be deaf. If you feel that adding StartDate and EndDate to a FirstName and LastName query is cumbersome and clunky then I can only imagine your shot tolerance on a tennis court. The calendar selector tool is identical to that used on most online banking sites and should be familiar to all.

Is TennisLink great? No. But when you say something cannot be done on TennisLink and I show you that it can, you should just say something like: "Oops....my bad."

BTW, finding this tournament ranking page is only difficult because their webmaster hasn't seen fit to make a link available in the lower level navigation bar. If you send a note to the webmaster, they could add it. But the function is there and works just fine.

And you appear to be blind..

As I told you, I have plenty experience using both the league and ranking sites. And, IMO, the league site is set up more efficiently to find players.

If you are looking for someone who plays just tournaments and not leagues, there is a good possibility that you will have to several searches, depending on whether or not they've played tournaments in different divisions (ie age group, open, NTRP). Rankings are separated into those divisions. Someone can be ranked in open, but if you are searching for them in age group, it will not pull up their open ranking.

Got it?

Furthermore, not all wins in a tournament will results in ranking points. And, again, if someone played and did not win, they will be on the *ineligible* list instead of the eligible playing list that the initial search will turn up.

Compare this to the league interface which brings up *all* leagues records in *all* divisions for many years...all right there. So, for the captain who is investigating a new recruit, this information is very valuable. If they've played USTA sanctioned tournaments, all the results are pulled up right there...regardless of division.

So, yes, the ranking search is more clunky and cumbersome IMO. I'm allowed to have an opinion without someone being rude.

So....sue me. I'm thinking he's got a 2 stroke shot tolerance. Serve...return...whamo, into the fence.

You also don't pay attention very well...'he' is a 'she'.

:roll:

That would be *your* bad, right?

mlewis721
02-03-2010, 02:25 PM
Unfortunately I can't see what that pic is because that site is blocked here...

Let me ask you this...if I want to look up a random player named "Bob Smith", who only plays tournaments and has never played in a league, and I have no idea of any tournaments this player has ever participated in, how would I do so through tennislink?

In TennisLink click Tournaments. To the right of the form called "Tournament Finder" is a series of links called "Tournament Links". Click on "Ranking Home". The page that opens has 3 forms. The one on the bottom can do searches by name. It is case-sensitive. raiden is not the same as Raiden.

beernutz
02-03-2010, 03:09 PM
In TennisLink click Tournaments. To the right of the form called "Tournament Finder is a series of links called "Tournament Links". Click on "Ranking Home". The page that opens has 3 forms. The one on the bottom can do searches by name. It is case-sensitive. raiden is not the same as Raiden.

I get the same result doing a name search for john smith and John Smith.

mlewis721
02-03-2010, 03:12 PM
I get the same result doing a name search for john smith and John Smith.

BY GOLLY, THEY'RE IMPROVING IT EVEN AS WE SPEAK!

beernutz
02-03-2010, 03:16 PM
In TennisLink click Tournaments. To the right of the form called "Tournament Finder" is a series of links called "Tournament Links". Click on "Ranking Home". The page that opens has 3 forms. The one on the bottom can do searches by name. It is case-sensitive. raiden is not the same as Raiden.

One UI element I don't like about that page is the position of the top drop down menu for selecting National/Sectional/District.

You'd think by its position that it would limit the name or USTA # search result to only the Section or District you select, however, it does not do this. Since it is part of the Tournaments - Rankings search criteria it seems to me it would be better placed within the bounding box with the other search criteria drop downs like Year, Division, and List Type.

cak
02-03-2010, 04:00 PM
But they cant get to the information "at all" depending on where you're looking at it from.

The player search field only querys a person's league participation history. (think about the next screen it goes too).

That's where the gap is, it's programmed to give you a list of all the teams you were on and in what particular year.

Then if you pick a player for a particular year, the next page (the one that query's all of their matches) is what somehow has access to the tournament data.

So they would either have to:

1) Find a clever way to list tournaments you have participated in on the same screen as where it lists all of your teams. That would solve it right there.

2) Skip the Team List thing altogether, and reprogram what the initial search does to bring up all matching players regardless if they were on a team or not.

3) Reprogram the whole thing. Sometimes when you write things a certain way, you spend far more time trying to make new functions "fit" in whatever you already had then you would be to start over.

Ultimately it's all so you dont have to spend 4 or 5 extra seconds while you're scouting all of your opponents.

It's probably hardly a huge deal, especially when you consider papatennis wants them to build him some new tennis courts and give his kids free tennis lessons.

Wow, I am forever grateful I play in NorCal and use their interface...

mlewis721
02-03-2010, 05:01 PM
And you appear to be blind..

As I told you, I have plenty experience using both the league and ranking sites. And, IMO, the league site is set up more efficiently to find players. If you are looking for someone who plays just tournaments and not leagues, there is a good possibility that you will have to several searches, depending on whether or not they've played tournaments in different divisions (ie age group, open, NTRP).

Considering the fact that I went to the trouble of uploading a screenshot with directions and arrows in post #99 pointing out the very thing you were wishing existed....it would appear that if someone is blind here it would be you. You are finding the interface clunky and cumbersome because you are using search #1. Try search #3. See below:

http://i45.tinypic.com/30nduzb.gif


So, yes, the ranking search is more clunky and cumbersome IMO. I'm allowed to have an opinion without someone being rude.You are most certainly allowed to have an opinion. However, your complaint stems from the fact that you are unaware of the existence of a name based search at Ranking Home. Your searches are clunky and cumbersome because you persist in using the wrong search. If you were driving the wrong direction on the Interstate and everybody was honking their horns at you, would you think them rude?


You also don't pay attention very well...'he' is a 'she'. :roll:

That would be *your* bad, right?

You sure you're in a position to be making remarks about other people paying attention?

J_R_B
02-03-2010, 07:24 PM
As I told you, I have plenty experience using both the league and ranking sites. And, IMO, the league site is set up more efficiently to find players.

If you are looking for someone who plays just tournaments and not leagues, there is a good possibility that you will have to several searches, depending on whether or not they've played tournaments in different divisions (ie age group, open, NTRP). Rankings are separated into those divisions. Someone can be ranked in open, but if you are searching for them in age group, it will not pull up their open ranking.

Got it?

Furthermore, not all wins in a tournament will results in ranking points. And, again, if someone played and did not win, they will be on the *ineligible* list instead of the eligible playing list that the initial search will turn up.



Just to clarify a couple points here. The name/date search under "Search by Player Name" returns links to players who, when you click on a player's link, it brings up that player's results in all tournaments in the date range, not just open or age group or NTRP or whatever. In addition, it lists all players with a tournament record in the date range, not just ranked or eligible players. I found my own tournament history from last year, which consisted of one 4.0 NTRP match that I withdrew from due to injury. Needless to say, I had 0 points, no rankings, and was not eligible, but I was in there regardless.

I do agree, however, that the league search interface is much easier to use.

J_R_B
02-03-2010, 07:26 PM
Actually, way down there at the bottom of the page it says:
Tournament Results (May not include all Tournaments Played)


The disclaimer is only there because not all tournaments record their results on-line. Those are the only tournaments missing, as far as I can tell. Obviously, if the match isn't recorded in the database, it is going to be difficult to find...

Annika
02-05-2010, 10:13 AM
I think sending out the new players info to all of the captains is still the best way. If some captain complain about that, then so what?, it's email, they can just ignore it..... That's probably the least of their problems...

Well finally a practical idea. And why would the captains complain? I think captains have too much power. :shock::)

JavierLW
02-05-2010, 10:40 AM
Regarding the best way to get new player info to new captains, I think it is reasonable to expect a new player to lift a finger and access a web site if they are serious about joining a team. Given that new players often have the option of starting their own team, I don't know how much coddling they need. Go to the web site and list yourself, network as best you can, and hope for the best.


It's funny that you give such a snooty response.

Apparently you have no business skills whatsoever, or more likely you're just thinking of yourself and what's good for you versus what is more likely to help find players.

If you're running a restaurant are you going to just sit on your hands and open a website? You're happy with that?

Anyone who runs a successful business knows that they just need to do whatever needs to be done to find the customer. Pooh poohing them and expecting them to be "website people", or saying "geeze, they just need to go to a website if they want this.....", or whatever other hoops you find for them to jump thru is screwy. You'd be sitting around with no customers and no money.

Which may be the case for some leagues this year, tons of players got moved up and it's not necessarily a given that every player that got moved is going to find a team, especially with your hands off, "they need to just do this" approach.

The USTA is running a BUSINESS. It may be a non-profit business, but it's a business none-the-less and those people looking for teams are the customers.

Obviously if it wasnt for captains there would be no league, but the least the league can do is get the word out without making them jump thru hoops.

Ive been reading email for decades, it's not a big deal to see that the email is not something you're interested in and just simply ignore it. You dont have to read every single one word for word....

doubleshack
02-05-2010, 10:42 AM
In TennisLink click Tournaments. To the right of the form called "Tournament Finder" is a series of links called "Tournament Links". Click on "Ranking Home". The page that opens has 3 forms. The one on the bottom can do searches by name. It is case-sensitive. raiden is not the same as Raiden.

Thank You!

I won't mention the tedious way I've been finding player results, but this is exactly what I've been looking for. We can also ignore how many times I've been to this page before and never realized it had a player search. :oops:

OrangePower
02-05-2010, 11:05 AM
Ive been reading email for decades, it's not a big deal to see that the email is not something you're interested in and just simply ignore it. You dont have to read every single one word for word....

In Norcal players looking for teams are able to email team captains via a link (email addresses are not shown for privacy reasons but messages are directed to captains). I have no problem with that. If I'm interested I'll follow up, otherwise I delete. The volume has not been an issue - I get maybe a handful of such emails a month on average. I think this is a good system.

As an aside, Javier, I think the general tone of your posts aren't gonna encourage others to consider your point of view. Which is unfortunate because your point is valid in this case.

JavierLW
02-05-2010, 12:37 PM
In Norcal players looking for teams are able to email team captains via a link (email addresses are not shown for privacy reasons but messages are directed to captains). I have no problem with that. If I'm interested I'll follow up, otherwise I delete. The volume has not been an issue - I get maybe a handful of such emails a month on average. I think this is a good system.

That's probably a good solution, it's similar to how this website allows you to email people if they so choose to turn it on.

Although one difference between that and just a broadcast email from the coordinator is if they single out any particular captain, they may expect a response. If they dont get one, feelings might be hurt, etc....

Maybe they'll have to see them at some point and they'll feel uncomfortable looking them in the eye, or who knows?

Where if the coordinator or the league sends something out, then it's sort of a more generic thing and no captain need even be on the spot for that. (but it's still better then telling the customer to jump thru hoops)

Since you're so worried about such things, that's something to consider.

beernutz
02-05-2010, 01:05 PM
In Norcal players looking for teams are able to email team captains via a link (email addresses are not shown for privacy reasons but messages are directed to captains). I have no problem with that. If I'm interested I'll follow up, otherwise I delete. The volume has not been an issue - I get maybe a handful of such emails a month on average. I think this is a good system.

As an aside, Javier, I think the general tone of your posts aren't gonna encourage others to consider your point of view. Which is unfortunate because your point is valid in this case.
http://www.socalbubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/understatement.jpg

OrangePower
02-05-2010, 01:29 PM
^^^^^

I enjoy reading different people's opinions on things, and everyone is entitled to their own perspective. It's ok to disagree. But snippy personal comments don't add any value and just dilute the meaningful content.

Nice picture. Where do you find them?

papatenis
02-05-2010, 09:53 PM
It's probably hardly a huge deal, especially when you consider papatennis wants them to build him some new tennis courts and give his kids free tennis lessons.

I belong to a private tennis club, and I pay for my kids tennis lessons.
(4 lessons a week)

But I do think the USTA should build courts to help grow the game, and they also should subsidize tournament fees for juniors that can't afford it.

ALten1
02-06-2010, 05:39 AM
I belong to a private tennis club, and I pay for my kids tennis lessons.
(4 lessons a week)

But I do think the USTA should build courts to help grow the game, and they also should subsidize tournament fees for juniors that can't afford it.

Our city has provided us with a great and cheap facility. Where should the USTA build the courts? I ask because most people that pay fees to USTA would get mad if the courts built were not in their "backyard." Also how much are tournament fees for juniors? My daughter has shown interest in tennis.

papatenis
02-06-2010, 07:54 AM
Our city has provided us with a great and cheap facility. Where should the USTA build the courts? I ask because most people that pay fees to USTA would get mad if the courts built were not in their "backyard." Also how much are tournament fees for juniors? My daughter has shown interest in tennis.

Indoor courts are greatly needed in the snow belt cities. Court time is very expensive and difficult to obtain during prime playing times.

USTA junior ranking system awards points per round, thus to obtain highest ranking possible, juniors have to play as many tournaments as they can afford. I live in Southern California, current junior tournament fees range from 35-90 dollars. Throw in lessons, travel costs, equipment, tournaments fees, you can see that it gets very expensive.

USTA junior development spends 10 million a year...

Cindysphinx
02-06-2010, 08:29 AM
It's funny that you give such a snooty response.

Apparently you have no business skills whatsoever, or more likely you're just thinking of yourself and what's good for you versus what is more likely to help find players.

If you're running a restaurant are you going to just sit on your hands and open a website? You're happy with that?

Anyone who runs a successful business knows that they just need to do whatever needs to be done to find the customer. Pooh poohing them and expecting them to be "website people", or saying "geeze, they just need to go to a website if they want this.....", or whatever other hoops you find for them to jump thru is screwy. You'd be sitting around with no customers and no money.



If you knew anything about business, Javier, you would understand the concept of "capacity."

If the tables in your restaurant are full and there is a line of people standing outside, it does not make sense to run ads or tell the people who are waiting to go talk to the cook. You would need to increase your capacity if you want to get some food to people who have their noses pressed against the glass such that they become customers also.

How to do that? In the context of tennis, you *need more captains.* You will need to find a way to encourage more people to captain. Now, you could encourage current league players to captain, but that is not likely to work well. If someone is already on a team, why would they want to leave and captain a team full of strangers?

No, the best thing to do would be to get a few newcomers to captain. There are many ways to do this; I won't list them here unless you really can't think of them yourself.

Getting back to the restaurant analogy, the last thing you would do is give the cell phone numbers of your diners to the people waiting outside so they could bother them and beg them for a seat at the table.

It seems you aren't bothered by receiving nuisance e-mail. Maybe you are not very busy or are lonely and find it fun to delete pointless e-mail. I find it quite disheartening to return to my desk to find scores of e-mails that needn't have been sent. It is up to the league to find a better way to accommodate new players than filling up my inbox.

catfish
02-06-2010, 10:01 AM
How to do that? In the context of tennis, you *need more captains.* You will need to find a way to encourage more people to captain. Now, you could encourage current league players to captain, but that is not likely to work well. If someone is already on a team, why would they want to leave and captain a team full of strangers?

No, the best thing to do would be to get a few newcomers to captain. There are many ways to do this; I won't list them here unless you really can't think of them yourself.

Cindy, this is a really good point. Sometimes when newcomers are added to existing teams, it's hard to find a spot on the team and they feel left out. It's usually not intentional, but it happens since a lot of teams stay together for years, doubles teams are already in place, etc. So if the newcomers are willing to step up and captain teams, they often have a better experience. Like you, I captained a team my first year playing USTA leagues. I'm glad I did. It helped me meet more people and I wasn't fighting for a spot on an existing team.

Also, as you mentioned in another post, getting involved in leagues is a 2 way street. The coordinators certainly need to help any way they can, but some responsibility is on the new players. People who really want to play always find teams.

mlewis721
02-06-2010, 11:19 AM
Thank You!

I won't mention the tedious way I've been finding player results, but this is exactly what I've been looking for. We can also ignore how many times I've been to this page before and never realized it had a player search. :oops:


Glad to have been of assistance.

My guess would be that the tedious method you were using before was also clunky and cumbersome.


....

JavierLW
02-06-2010, 11:27 AM
If you knew anything about business, Javier, you would understand the concept of "capacity."

If the tables in your restaurant are full and there is a line of people standing outside, it does not make sense to run ads or tell the people who are waiting to go talk to the cook. You would need to increase your capacity if you want to get some food to people who have their noses pressed against the glass such that they become customers also.

How to do that? In the context of tennis, you *need more captains.* You will need to find a way to encourage more people to captain. Now, you could encourage current league players to captain, but that is not likely to work well. If someone is already on a team, why would they want to leave and captain a team full of strangers?

No, the best thing to do would be to get a few newcomers to captain. There are many ways to do this; I won't list them here unless you really can't think of them yourself.

Getting back to the restaurant analogy, the last thing you would do is give the cell phone numbers of your diners to the people waiting outside so they could bother them and beg them for a seat at the table.

It seems you aren't bothered by receiving nuisance e-mail. Maybe you are not very busy or are lonely and find it fun to delete pointless e-mail. I find it quite disheartening to return to my desk to find scores of e-mails that needn't have been sent. It is up to the league to find a better way to accommodate new players than filling up my inbox.

You're assuming that there is a capacity issue and your restaurant is full... Perhaps there is in your league, but that's the case in every area.

In some areas participation is shrinking which may well easily be the case this year when tons of players who got moved up are looking for new teams.

And just because you deemed that the email "didnt need to be sent", doesnt meant that it really "didnt need to be sent"...

Disheartening?? Come on....

dirkpitt38
02-06-2010, 11:34 AM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!
Only thing I do not like about league play is when teams puts their 1 postion in either postion 2 or 3. Not sure if this is considered stacking. A lot of the time this is counter by my captain doing the same when he see's this happening. I would be all for the USTA changing to a point system for each match to deter this.

I love to play ringers so this does not bother me. Can't figure out why someone wants to play down:confused:. I thrive and excel on the challange to play better players. Makes my game better and in a couple of times I came out the victor.

beernutz
02-06-2010, 11:49 AM
^^^^^

I enjoy reading different people's opinions on things, and everyone is entitled to their own perspective. It's ok to disagree. But snippy personal comments don't add any value and just dilute the meaningful content.

Nice picture. Where do you find them?

I googled understatement.

Cindysphinx
02-06-2010, 12:00 PM
In Norcal players looking for teams are able to email team captains via a link (email addresses are not shown for privacy reasons but messages are directed to captains). I have no problem with that. If I'm interested I'll follow up, otherwise I delete. The volume has not been an issue - I get maybe a handful of such emails a month on average. I think this is a good system.


If our league had such a system where new players could do an e-mail blast to all captains using a link, and captains had no obligation to respond, this is slightly better than simply allowing players to contact captains directly. If I get an e-mail from any player who wants to join my team and is directed to me personally, I feel it is rude not to respond. If I have to respond, I feel compelled to be kind. That takes time.

Our league handles all of this by maintaining a list of players looking for teams. Players get on the list by e-mailing the coordinators, and the coodinator sends out the list periodically. Captains like me with full rosters just ignore the e-mail; other captains presumably follow up on players who look promising.

Still, I wish I could opt out of receiving the list entirely. At this point, there is simply no way I will take players off of the list. The reason is simply that my current players all have friends who would love to join. By the time I take these friends, the few openings I have are long gone.

As I said earlier, I think the real problem is that there are not enough captains for the players who want teams. New players are shy about captaining because they don't know what is involved or feel they won't have time. The league deals with this by holding periodic captain training sessions. I think this is nice, but not optimal. Hearing a 90-minute lecture about captaining isn't that comforting. In my case, I was willing to captain because I had a sister who captained and she could walk me through everything.

Recently, I suggested that the league start a Captain Buddy system. Get a few experienced captains to volunteer to buddy up with a new captain. Anytime the new captain has a question, she would have someone to help. Personally, I wouldn't mind helping a new player get her team off the ground. I have done this before for friends who decided to start teams, and their not having to re-create the wheel saved them tons of time.

Nothing ever came of the Buddy suggestion. Oh well.

Cindy -- noting that the current Available Players list has about 260 men and women on it

JRstriker12
02-06-2010, 03:17 PM
I belong to a private tennis club, and I pay for my kids tennis lessons.
(4 lessons a week)

But I do think the USTA should build courts to help grow the game, and they also should subsidize tournament fees for juniors that can't afford it.

USTA does have grant programs to build/referbish courts:

http://thebigserve.usta.com/actioncenter/facility/

http://www.usta.com/USTA/Home/Coaches/AwardsGrantsScholarships.aspx

http://www.midatlantic.usta.com/?sc_itemid=0fbbf28d-05a6-4bc1-ae2c-4970a1329ded

I'm also quite sure that the USTA provides some sort of subsidy to promising juniors to help pay for training an play.

papatenis
02-06-2010, 03:32 PM
USTA does have grant programs to build/referbish courts:

http://thebigserve.usta.com/actioncenter/facility/

http://www.usta.com/USTA/Home/Coaches/AwardsGrantsScholarships.aspx

http://www.midatlantic.usta.com/?sc_itemid=0fbbf28d-05a6-4bc1-ae2c-4970a1329ded

I'm also quite sure that the USTA provides some sort of subsidy to promising juniors to help pay for training an play.

Yes, USTA does provide grants for the construction of new courts, but these grants only cover a small percentage of the total costs. My point is that they should take the initiative to build indoor/outdoor facilities.
They do provide funding for a small group of highly ranked juniors, regardless of their financial situation.

West Coast Ace
02-09-2010, 12:24 PM
I don't care how poorly designed their system is, but if its using an industry standard RDBMS, then they can query any data they want.I'm on your side of the big picture - and feel really dirty agreeing with Javier - but that's not a true statement. If the database (which I'm sure you know is really a logical grouping of tables) was designed poorly (e.g. poor table design - info in the table but not in the proper form - numeric or date values defined as characters) then the queries can't be written properly. I work in IT mgmt at a Fortune 50 company and have seen it all (users who like to create rogue applications then come crying to us when they're in the proverbial ditch and on fire). And considering the USTA and the way they spend their (oops, OUR!) money (e.g. stuffing Katarian's pockets to the tune of $9MM) I can imagine the IT (except for the automated emails asking us for more money) isn't a top priority.

crystal_clear
02-10-2010, 06:45 AM
I'd like to compile a list of what turns off people to USTA league tennis? Step right up don't be shy!

Let me start.
1. Overzealous captains!
2. Ringers
3. Stacking


Keep going!

What are Ringers and Stacking? Could anyone explain?

crystal_clear
02-10-2010, 07:02 AM
Recently, I suggested that the league start a Captain Buddy system. Get a few experienced captains to volunteer to buddy up with a new captain. Anytime the new captain has a question, she would have someone to help. Personally, I wouldn't mind helping a new player get her team off the ground. I have done this before for friends who decided to start teams, and their not having to re-create the wheel saved them tons of time.

Nothing ever came of the Buddy suggestion. Oh well.

Cindy -- noting that the current Available Players list has about 260 men and women on it

What a good idea~

I noticed some divisions almost doubled their team numbers last summer here in GTA.

BHud
02-10-2010, 07:21 AM
The lack of a local committee to overrule a player's computer rating when obvious errors have occured. We have players that played on a 5.5 national team competing in the 4.5 league. We even had a new one sign up that had tour points 10 years ago! They fly under the radar at doubles (where I have beaten 2 of them) but convert to singles in the tough matches where their games really shine (generally they are younger than most in the league and can plays balls out singles).

USTA league rules work for 95% of the participants...which is great, but the ringers seem to move a team along at the districts/states/regionals at the expense of those who weren't lucky enough to have one.

JavierLW
02-10-2010, 07:21 AM
What are Ringers and Stacking? Could anyone explain?

Ringers are players who are perceived to be definitely better then the level that they are playing at. It can either be real or imagined. The USTA focuses on players with a certain player history to try to police this. (ie... most former college players cant self rate at 3.5....)

Stacking is when you dont order your teams in order of strength from best to worst. It's more of a reason for someone to complain then anything, especially since it's pretty much subjective as to which line is actually better anyway....

JavierLW
02-10-2010, 07:25 AM
The lack of a local committee to overrule a player's computer rating when obvious errors have occured. We have players that played on a 5.5 national team competing in the 4.5 league. We even had a new one sign up that had tour points 10 years ago! They fly under the radar at doubles (where I have beaten 2 of them) but convert to singles in the tough matches where their games really shine (generally they are younger than most in the league and can plays balls out singles).

USTA league rules work for 95% of the participants...which is great, but the ringers seem to move a team along at the districts/states/regionals at the expense of those who weren't lucky enough to have one.

I agree, that is kind of a noticeable in the system.

But it's also probably one of the reasons they went nuts this year moving people up. It took care of a lot of the people who were attempting to work the system.

What will be interesting is if new players this year somehow manage to get into the system and if they make it past one year of play they'll be good for another year. (only this time they could possibly be even MORE out of place since the average strength has decreased for most levels)

Inner Game
02-10-2010, 06:50 PM
Indoor courts are greatly needed in the snow belt cities. Court time is very expensive and difficult to obtain during prime playing times.

USTA junior ranking system awards points per round, thus to obtain highest ranking possible, juniors have to play as many tournaments as they can afford. I live in Southern California, current junior tournament fees range from 35-90 dollars. Throw in lessons, travel costs, equipment, tournaments fees, you can see that it gets very expensive.

USTA junior development spends 10 million a year...

Indoor private clubs usually cater to woman's leagues....they are the one's that not only open their checkbooks for court time but also Clothing/Accessories...I have to chuckle when I waiting for a court and listening to these 3.0 players tell the local pro "I'm better the player X" and I should be playing #1 doubles not #3 It's such a joke....and the pro has to contain himself and not really tell them the truth....
That is what private club tennis is all about!

JavierLW
02-10-2010, 09:59 PM
Indoor private clubs usually cater to woman's leagues....they are the one's that not only open their checkbooks for court time but also Clothing/Accessories...I have to chuckle when I waiting for a court and listening to these 3.0 players tell the local pro "I'm better the player X" and I should be playing #1 double not #3 It's such a joke....and the pro has to contain himself and not really tell them the truth....
That is what private club tennis is all about!

Wow, you have nothing but bitter distain for everyone, dont you? :roll:

Why dont you try minding your own business?, maybe you'd enjoy life more....

And again, unless you've been on TV recently playing tennis, I doubt you have much of a right to disparage what anyone else is doing!

Inner Game
02-11-2010, 05:30 AM
Wow, you have nothing but bitter distain for everyone, dont you? :roll:

Why dont you try minding your own business?, maybe you'd enjoy life more....

And again, unless you've been on TV recently playing tennis, I doubt you have much of a right to disparage what anyone else is doing!

Bitter hardly, I've had my day in the sunshine....but really Javier unless your on the tour tennis is recreational!....People like you take this game WAY TO SERIOUS. Most of the club player and league player are OK and understand this...it's the 10% of the players(like you) that think their better then they are....they try to manipulate teams, team members and the USTA for a shot a getting a T-shirt from the Nationals....do away with the Nationals and see how many "ringers" teams recruit....it would be NADA....then tennis would return to what 90% of the people play...recreational tennis!.....tennis should be played for the enjoyment of the game not bragging rights!

Also tournaments are what tennis should be about if your after some sort of "real" gratification(small as it is)...Put your skills on the line against players of every level...and if you get double bagel-ed then maybe you either need more practice or tennis isn't your game....I really doubt if you have ever done this...your just another "league freak"! I wonder how you have time to plan your league strategy with over 3000 posts in less then 3 years...LOL

Have a nice day Javier

JavierLW
02-11-2010, 06:33 AM
do away with the Nationals and see how many "ringers" teams recruit....it would be NADA....

You're wrong.

Im in another league that is just citywide, no playoffs whatsoever, about 12 teams and if you win, everyone gets a hat.

There are still plenty of ringers in that one. Maybe not to the extent that you have 5.0 guys playing 3.5 (because that's not necessary) but still, some people want to win bad enough so they play down. (however ******** that seems.....)

I agree with you that having Nationals causes a bigger effect of having ringers out there. When you have series after series after series of playoffs that's bound to happen.

It's also true that some people just simply dont enjoy playing tennis, they just want to win and they probably do not know the difference. That's what prompts them to play down.

However I dont agree with your negative aspect of all league play or level play. No matter what level someone is at, they can still have goals and they can still strive to play better. Just because you stick your nose down at them is meaningless.

You're ignorant as far as that's concerned. Even at 3.0, some players are better then others, especially if they're working on their game.

It just sounds like you're a bitter person, someone probably didnt let you on their team, or you just cant stand being involved in something where whatever self centered selfish motivations you might have are not necessarily considered....

OrangePower
02-11-2010, 10:10 AM
Bitter hardly, I've had my day in the sunshine....but really Javier unless your on the tour tennis is recreational!....People like you take this game WAY TO SERIOUS. Most of the club player and league player are OK and understand this...it's the 10% of the players(like you) that think their better then they are....they try to manipulate teams, team members and the USTA for a shot a getting a T-shirt from the Nationals....do away with the Nationals and see how many "ringers" teams recruit....it would be NADA....then tennis would return to what 90% of the people play...recreational tennis!.....tennis should be played for the enjoyment of the game not bragging rights!

Also tournaments are what tennis should be about if your after some sort of "real" gratification(small as it is)...Put your skills on the line against players of every level...and if you get double bagel-ed then maybe you either need more practice or tennis isn't your game....I really doubt if you have ever done this...your just another "league freak"! I wonder how you have time to plan your league strategy with over 3000 posts in less then 3 years...LOL

Have a nice day Javier

Inner Game, I'm just trying to understand your perspective...

From your post above, you're pointing out how the league system encourages ringers, stackers, etc. Ok, I buy that - no denying that it goes on to some extent.

Then you go on to encourage tournament play, more specifically, open tournaments if I understand you correctly ("Put your skills on the line against players of every level"). Ok, I buy that also - nothing wrong with testing yourself.

Here's what I don't get though: If you don't mind playing open tournaments, where you're likely going to come across much stronger players, then why do the ringers and stackers in league bother you so much? Why not take the same attitude when playing a league match that you take when you play a tournament match - that it's possible that the other guy is going to be levels above you but it's still a good test of your skills? If you enjoy tournament matches for the love of playing the game why would league matches be any different?

JavierLW
02-11-2010, 11:31 AM
Here's what I don't get though: If you don't mind playing open tournaments, where you're likely going to come across much stronger players, then why do the ringers and stackers in league bother you so much? Why not take the same attitude when playing a league match that you take when you play a tournament match - that it's possible that the other guy is going to be levels above you but it's still a good test of your skills? If you enjoy tournament matches for the love of playing the game why would league matches be any different?

It's because he obviously thinks he's a big deal in his weak local Open Tournaments and he's probably upset that some players have other options to go to, rather then have to face him.

I say "weak" because after all, he's not making money playing tennis, he's not on TV, he's not even on the qualifier circuit, he's just playing recreational tennis like everyone else, yet he feels the need to put down other people who happen to enjoy what they are doing......

(and I happen to know that some area's "OPEN" is another area's 4.0)

OrangePower
02-11-2010, 03:56 PM
It's because he obviously thinks he's a big deal in his weak local Open Tournaments and he's probably upset that some players have other options to go to, rather then have to face him.

I say "weak" because after all, he's not making money playing tennis, he's not on TV, he's not even on the qualifier circuit, he's just playing recreational tennis like everyone else, yet he feels the need to put down other people who happen to enjoy what they are doing......

(and I happen to know that some area's "OPEN" is another area's 4.0)

Well I don't know his motivation; we'll see how he responds.

What I meant to imply in my post though is that a lot of it depends on what mindset you have going into league matches.

It's a lot more fun if your mindset is that you accept the possibility of facing a player a level higher that you (eg a ringer), and that's ok - just means better tennis for you; enjoy the match, and pretend like it's no different to a match in an open tournament. If you're someone who sometimes will enter an open tournament, then you would already be used to this mindset.

But if your mindset is that you don't want to face someone significantly better than you, then of course you will be upset if you come across a ringer. But then you would not be happy playing open tournaments either.

So I'm just trying to understand Inner's mindset because there seemed to be a contradiction between his views on tournaments and league.

JavierLW
02-11-2010, 05:21 PM
Well I don't know his motivation; we'll see how he responds.

What I meant to imply in my post though is that a lot of it depends on what mindset you have going into league matches.

It's a lot more fun if your mindset is that you accept the possibility of facing a player a level higher that you (eg a ringer), and that's ok - just means better tennis for you; enjoy the match, and pretend like it's no different to a match in an open tournament. If you're someone who sometimes will enter an open tournament, then you would already be used to this mindset.

But if your mindset is that you don't want to face someone significantly better than you, then of course you will be upset if you come across a ringer. But then you would not be happy playing open tournaments either.

So I'm just trying to understand Inner's mindset because there seemed to be a contradiction between his views on tournaments and league.

I already called him on that in several other threads.

There is no logic to it, he just likes to complain.

But if you did want to assign some logic to it, back in the 70's or whenever before the NTRP was invented and everyone was sporting wooden and metal racquets, there wasnt really any sort of league play.

So if you wanted to play tournaments aside from just going out and hacking it with your friends, you joined these massive tournaments which were more or less open level, or at the most had 3 divisions. (A, B, C) And in a cold area like Minnesota, it's not like you're going to have to face the likes of Ken Rosewall or Rod Laver.

If we want to be nice to Inner, he probably enjoyed that whether he was the winner or the loser. (more players in a tournament = better possibility of matches for everyone.....)

But times changed, disco is now dead, we're using some sort of graphite-carbon fibre light weight racquet now and thousands of people actually enjoy playing league tennis and skill level specific tournaments.

Which means the days of the huge open level tournaments in some areas (like Minnesota where tennis isnt exactly a national sport) are over. In warmer weather areas that draw from a lot more tennis players it's probably not.

Some people have moved on, some people just enjoy playing tennis, some people actually enjoy what's going on in present day more, and some people are just sitting around crying about it.

Inner Game
02-11-2010, 07:14 PM
Inner Game, I'm just trying to understand your perspective...

From your post above, you're pointing out how the league system encourages ringers, stackers, etc. Ok, I buy that - no denying that it goes on to some extent.

Then you go on to encourage tournament play, more specifically, open tournaments if I understand you correctly ("Put your skills on the line against players of every level"). Ok, I buy that also - nothing wrong with testing yourself.

Here's what I don't get though: If you don't mind playing open tournaments, where you're likely going to come across much stronger players, then why do the ringers and stackers in league bother you so much? Why not take the same attitude when playing a league match that you take when you play a tournament match - that it's possible that the other guy is going to be levels above you but it's still a good test of your skills? If you enjoy tournament matches for the love of playing the game why would league matches be any different?

They don't bother me in the least....I just started the thread on reasons why people don't like USTA league tennis....The original 3 reasons were just a starting point that I have heard over the years...Your right I did get off track after Javier decided he was the forum police and tried to dictate what I could or couldn't say...:)
As for me personally...yes I love to play tennis...and yes I do like to win....and when I win I don't think I'm superior...and when I lose I don't blame the other player or bad calls or my doubles partner (if I'm playing doubles) for a loss....If I lose it means my opponent is better then me or I haven't put the time in to bring my game to the level I need to be.....but really its all relative....
The biggest problem I see is all the time captains take trying to scout the other team...look up stats....blah..blah...blah....its just recreational tennis for God's sake....

Inner Game
02-11-2010, 07:22 PM
I already called him on that in several other threads.

There is no logic to it, he just likes to complain.

But if you did want to assign some logic to it, back in the 70's or whenever before the NTRP was invented and everyone was sporting wooden and metal racquets, there wasnt really any sort of league play.

So if you wanted to play tournaments aside from just going out and hacking it with your friends, you joined these massive tournaments which were more or less open level, or at the most had 3 divisions. (A, B, C) And in a cold area like Minnesota, it's not like you're going to have to face the likes of Ken Rosewall or Rod Laver.

If we want to be nice to Inner, he probably enjoyed that whether he was the winner or the loser. (more players in a tournament = better possibility of matches for everyone.....)

But times changed, disco is now dead, we're using some sort of graphite-carbon fibre light weight racquet now and thousands of people actually enjoy playing league tennis and skill level specific tournaments.

Which means the days of the huge open level tournaments in some areas (like Minnesota where tennis isnt exactly a national sport) are over. In warmer weather areas that draw from a lot more tennis players it's probably not.

Some people have moved on, some people just enjoy playing tennis, some people actually enjoy what's going on in present day more, and some people are just sitting around crying about it.

Hey Javier,

You seem to have all the answers.....throwbacks...wood rackets...disco is dead....lol.....put a wood racket in my hand and you can have the highest tech racket you can find....and I'd still kick your butt...I gotta say Javier...your a pretender.....I'm positive your not over a 4.0 player...If your gonna talk about every subject like you have lived it...you better have...So I'm calling you out Tech boy...what level are you? I doubt you will answer as your just some tech geek hiding behind a keyboard....

JavierLW
02-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Hey Javier,

You seem to have all the answers.....throwbacks...wood rackets...disco is dead....lol.....put a wood racket in my hand and you can have the highest tech racket you can find....and I'd still kick your butt...I gotta say Javier...your a pretender.....I'm positive your not over a 4.0 player...If your gonna talk about every subject like you have lived it...you better have...So I'm calling you out Tech boy...what level are you? I doubt you will answer as your just some tech geek hiding behind a keyboard....

I told you, Im Open level according to you.

You're a joke. You obviously have nothing better to do but to act negative, and disparage everyone else for having some enjoyment in whatever they are doing, so why dont you go take your negativity and go elsewhere.

As far as your insane tech geek rant, are we in high school? Haven't you grown up enough yet?

Sad, sad, very sad....

Despite whatever level in tennis I am, Im 100% sure that Im way smarter then you, and can obviously apply logic in a way that is way better then you. If you think that's a negative then fine.

And whether you "lived it" or not, who cares? It's all meaningless if you just wander around crying all day and dont have the brains to actually evaluate your current situation and make the most of it....

JavierLW
02-11-2010, 09:20 PM
The biggest problem I see is all the time captains take trying to scout the other team...look up stats....blah..blah...blah....its just recreational tennis for God's sake....

And why is that a problem? Just because YOU have a problem with it?

You dont make a whole lot of sense sometimes, apparently you do not realize that.....

Do you actually use your brain out there when you play, or since it's just "recreational" tennis to you, do you just lazily go about whatever it is you're doing.

I agree that some things that captains do are over the top and unnecessary. When I was on a team in 2002 that the USTA started we had a coach, and he used to send us emails about how the team really "should" or "needed to" win at least 4-1 tonight.

I always thought that was insane and it was actually counterproductive because once you step on the court it's no longer a team sport at that point, you can only worry about whatever it is you are doing.

But to just sit here and listen to your negativity about it is funny. As if it has anything at all to do with you.

I imagine anytime anyone actually wants to use their brain or actually take anything seriously you stick your nose down at them.

I scout other teams just so my players know who they are likely to play, nothing much more then that. It actually makes a big difference sometimes when you know ahead of time who you are playing.

Maybe if there is something glaring about them it's good to know, but it's not good to get too involved because they need to show up more then anything.

I dont relay to anyone about what anyone's record is though because that's just useless information to have when you're out there. If you play better, you'll probably win. If you play your best and lose then like you said, that just wasnt your day.

Let's face it, you just dont like team sports, that's probably why you started playing tennis. (that's actually why I started playing tennis, but now I like the team aspect more then the individual one)

Inner Game
02-12-2010, 03:58 AM
Javier, blah...blah...blah...remember you started the personal attacks...

You do a lot of talking tech boy...but your afraid to reveal your USTA ranking which would make people wonder about the validity of your 3000 posts....

You seem to be an expert on everything from stringing to USTA leagues....give us your resume to prove your more then just a guy behind a computer.

Have a good day Javier

OrangePower
02-12-2010, 09:55 AM
The biggest problem I see is all the time captains take trying to scout the other team...look up stats....blah..blah...blah....its just recreational tennis for God's sake....

I've definitely known captains like this. In fact, I know a captain who does not even play tennis (literally) - he just enjoys putting teams together, strategizing about lineups, scouting, and so on.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but different people find enjoyment in different things.

Most of us here primarily enjoy the activity of playing tennis, but look at how many posts there are in the rackets and strings sections - many many people also enjoy tinkering with their equipment, probably to the point where it's an obsession and is not actually making any difference to their game.

Think of how much time we spend on these boards - I don't think that helps our play any!

And probably it is the same with captains who are overly obsessed. So the way I see it, if people have an interest in something and enjoy doing it, then nothing wrong with that.

Inner Game
02-12-2010, 12:27 PM
I've definitely known captains like this. In fact, I know a captain who does not even play tennis (literally) - he just enjoys putting teams together, strategizing about lineups, scouting, and so on.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but different people find enjoyment in different things.

Most of us here primarily enjoy the activity of playing tennis, but look at how many posts there are in the rackets and strings sections - many many people also enjoy tinkering with their equipment, probably to the point where it's an obsession and is not actually making any difference to their game.

Think of how much time we spend on these boards - I don't think that helps our play any!

And probably it is the same with captains who are overly obsessed. So the way I see it, if people have an interest in something and enjoy doing it, then nothing wrong with that.

Well OP, I do agree that spending a lot of time on this board is bad for our tennis...:) Lets see...I have almost 300 posts in 4 years... your at about the same level of posts per year.....but Javier seems to be a post junkie...who's a self appointed forum czar....lol.....actually it's kind of fun to see a guy get that worked up over someone's opinion....
He's going to call me on all my opinions.....and he took the time to read most of my post.....that alone makes me LMAO


And there has been a few good players out of Minnesota....I think David Wheaton was a top 10 player for a year or two.....

JavierLW
02-12-2010, 12:31 PM
Javier, blah...blah...blah...remember you started the personal attacks...

You do a lot of talking tech boy...but your afraid to reveal your USTA ranking which would make people wonder about the validity of your 3000 posts....

You seem to be an expert on everything from stringing to USTA leagues....give us your resume to prove your more then just a guy behind a computer.

Have a good day Javier

I certainly dont have to prove anything to the likes of you.

You're the kind of person who just finds something negative in everything so there isnt any point. Especially someone who's main motivation appears to be putting down others for things that they are enjoying.

The fact that you think someone who is a certain skill level is somehow interconnected with how much they actually know about tennis (like the ladys you were talking about) proves that you are a very negative ignorant person.

Im sure you dont like to hear that, but it's true, Im not going to sit and blow smoke up your you know what...

It doesnt matter what level anyone else is, because I havent seen you on TV at all, if you were I know we'd hear all about it. Your weak Open level in your area is probably full of 4.0 guys at the best.

And you already told us how you "drove around and never see anyone playing tennis" so it's not like you have a whole lot of participation in the sport.

Why dont you take your own advice and have a "good day".

JavierLW
02-12-2010, 12:40 PM
Well OP, I do agree that spending a lot of time on this board is bad for our tennis...:) Lets see...I have almost 300 posts in 4 years... your at about the same level of posts per year.....but Javier seems to be a post junkie...who's a self appointed forum czar....lol.....actually it's kind of fun to see a guy get that worked up over someone's opinion....
He's going to call me on all my opinions.....and he took the time to read most of my post.....that alone makes me LMAO


And there has been a few good players out of Minnesota....I think David Wheaton was a top 10 player for a year or two.....

A few as in 3? Im sure every state has a "few".....

My opinion about your opinion is my opinion.

Im sorry if you're going to be a negative, whiney, irrational person, then Im going to call you out on it.

And what does it say about you that you have a pretty high concentration of posts that seem to be nothing more but negative complaints about the league, people who play in the league and other people in general.....

Heaven forbid that people actually communicate and actually READ and understand what anyone else is saying.

No, instead let's just all write negative whiny comments that come to the top of our head, because our feelings are hurt and we want to express them...

Inner Game
02-12-2010, 06:12 PM
A few as in 3? Im sure every state has a "few".....

My opinion about your opinion is my opinion.

Im sorry if you're going to be a negative, whiney, irrational person, then Im going to call you out on it.

And what does it say about you that you have a pretty high concentration of posts that seem to be nothing more but negative complaints about the league, people who play in the league and other people in general.....

Heaven forbid that people actually communicate and actually READ and understand what anyone else is saying.

No, instead let's just all write negative whiny comments that come to the top of our head, because our feelings are hurt and we want to express them...

I bet you cried when the slide-rule became obsolete....and please take a bow for your superior intelligence...You finally made me see the light...it's a revelation....tennis has become so clear....I really have to thank you for taking the time to enlighten me...:) I realize now I knew nothing about tennis or the USTA league until you showed me the way...Hallelujah I'm saved!

Have a good day....

LafayetteHitter
02-12-2010, 06:26 PM
People that purposely sit out a couple years and come back rated as a 3.0 when they were a 4.0 before that never stopped playing tennis. Then after they crush some 3.0 guys they stand around sipping Red Bull after talking about how bad they smoked the guy. Wow what a big man!

Inner Game
02-12-2010, 06:28 PM
I certainly dont have to prove anything to the likes of you.

You're the kind of person who just finds something negative in everything so there isnt any point. Especially someone who's main motivation appears to be putting down others for things that they are enjoying.

The fact that you think someone who is a certain skill level is somehow interconnected with how much they actually know about tennis (like the ladys you were talking about) proves that you are a very negative ignorant person.

Im sure you dont like to hear that, but it's true, Im not going to sit and blow smoke up your you know what...

It doesnt matter what level anyone else is, because I havent seen you on TV at all, if you were I know we'd hear all about it. Your weak Open level in your area is probably full of 4.0 guys at the best.

And you already told us how you "drove around and never see anyone playing tennis" so it's not like you have a whole lot of participation in the sport.

Why dont you take your own advice and have a "good day".

Driving around Minnesota I'm talking about the local grass roots courts...There a many indoor clubs that are pretty much packed even in the summer months.

I have to say while you proclaim to be a smart guy...your tennis IQ is about the same as your shoe size....

If you knew about tennis then you should be able to tell me at least some of the current world class pros that are from Minnesota....well?
You continue to mention I play in the Open but infer its probably a weak Open and possibly a 4.0 level...If you call division 1 current college players and former division 1 players and players that have been in the top 500 in the world weak....then I guess I'm 4.0 player...thanks for helping me through that....

Now Javier, talk is very cheap.....If you want some respect you need to be experienced on issues you preach! You still haven't revealed your true level....cat got your tongue?
Once you can come to terms on your true level you will feel better......but I guess its pretty easy to hide behind a keyboard....

Inner Game
02-12-2010, 06:29 PM
People that purposely sit out a couple years and come back rated as a 3.0 when they were a 4.0 before that never stopped playing tennis. Then after they crush some 3.0 guys they stand around sipping Red Bull after talking about how bad they smoked the guy. Wow what a big man!

Now thats what I'm talking about......:)

Molk
02-12-2010, 11:31 PM
USTA League Tennis is a great way to stay connected and practice with your team...I believe Inner Game's purpose of the 1001 Reason's why you do dislike USTA League Tennis was "to bring into the light" all of the Leagues weakness. If we look at the weakness, changes can be made...I have went 4.5 nationals. Our team lost to Texas and S California and should not have made it to the semi finals but, Texas got a S California player DQ and S California got a Texas player DQ. We won our semi match and were going to play in the finals but, Texas, S California and others were locked in a room protesting for at least a day. We decided to take the second place trophy and go home. (Finals were suppose to be Sunday at 11 and it was now 4 and most people had flights at 5.)...It is very sad when each USTA section needs a full time employee to handle all the protests and complaining...This could be cleaned up very easy. 1. You win or lose 90% of your matches-you are moved up or down. (No protest allowed) 2. You can not add players during the season. (You dance with the girl, you brought to the dance.) 3. Your roster can not exceed 12 players. (You do not get to have the players from your closest competitor on your team, uping your roster to 20 players. 4. You can not have players that live more 150 miles on your team. 5. You need to play in at least half of the seasons matches to qualify for nationals if, your team goes... This is just a start but, remember USTA is in business to make $$$ so it is not going to happen... Inner Game was trying to compare League Tennis to Tournament Tennis and improve League Tennis. League Tennis is like the show Survivor. Tournament Tennis is mono-e-mono, "to be the man, you have to beat the man." League Tennis is very corporate. Tournament Tennis stand on your own merit...I am not trying to "pile on" Javier, Orange Power or Inner Game but, I do like Disco and am just happy to be on the Tennis court and believe cooperative competition is the answer.

OrangePower
02-13-2010, 02:17 PM
USTA League Tennis is a great way to stay connected and practice with your team...I believe Inner Game's purpose of the 1001 Reason's why you do dislike USTA League Tennis was "to bring into the light" all of the Leagues weakness. If we look at the weakness, changes can be made...I have went 4.5 nationals. Our team lost to Texas and S California and should not have made it to the semi finals but, Texas got a S California player DQ and S California got a Texas player DQ. We won our semi match and were going to play in the finals but, Texas, S California and others were locked in a room protesting for at least a day. We decided to take the second place trophy and go home. (Finals were suppose to be Sunday at 11 and it was now 4 and most people had flights at 5.)...It is very sad when each USTA section needs a full time employee to handle all the protests and complaining...This could be cleaned up very easy. 1. You win or lose 90% of your matches-you are moved up or down. (No protest allowed) 2. You can not add players during the season. (You dance with the girl, you brought to the dance.) 3. Your roster can not exceed 12 players. (You do not get to have the players from your closest competitor on your team, uping your roster to 20 players. 4. You can not have players that live more 150 miles on your team. 5. You need to play in at least half of the seasons matches to qualify for nationals if, your team goes... This is just a start but, remember USTA is in business to make $$$ so it is not going to happen... Inner Game was trying to compare League Tennis to Tournament Tennis and improve League Tennis. League Tennis is like the show Survivor. Tournament Tennis is mono-e-mono, "to be the man, you have to beat the man." League Tennis is very corporate. Tournament Tennis stand on your own merit...I am not trying to "pile on" Javier, Orange Power or Inner Game but, I do like Disco and am just happy to be on the Tennis court and believe cooperative competition is the answer.

Good post. I am actually a fan of league tennis because of the opportunities it has given me to play and all the good people I have met.

Here's what I think of your suggestions:

1. You win or lose 90% of your matches-you are moved up or down. (No protest allowed)

I don't think this is necessary. The NTRP algorithm seems to to a good job of moving up people. The problem in the past has been the appeal process. But starting this year appeals are automatically denied for those playing more than 6 matches.

2. You can not add players during the season. (You dance with the girl, you brought to the dance.)

I half agree. Sometimes you realize after a season starts that you are short of players, maybe due to injury or people away on vacation or whatever. So the alternative is either add players, or default. And defaulting hurts not just your team but also the team you default against, who paid good money to play not win by default. On the other hand, maybe there should be a time limit after which any players you add can play in the regular season but are not eligible for the post season.

3. Your roster can not exceed 12 players. (You do not get to have the players from your closest competitor on your team, uping your roster to 20 players.

I don't agree - because from my experience you need more players than that. See my comment on injury / vacation etc. Not every player is that committed that they will play every week.

4. You can not have players that live more 150 miles on your team.

Don't know. In my area that would make sense. Maybe in other less dense areas it would not work. I just don't know.

5. You need to play in at least half of the seasons matches to qualify for nationals if, your team goes...

Half agree. I would not say half, but more than the 1 or 2 currently required.


One thing that you didn't mention, that I think would make the biggest difference: Don't allow self-rated players to play in the post season. Most cases of sandbagging / DQs are with self rated players, and asking them to sit out post season in the first year is not a big deal for those who are not sandbaggers. After all, what percentage of all players make post season anyway?

Between this, and the other changes I agreed with you on, I think it would make a good difference.

JavierLW
02-14-2010, 09:04 AM
If you knew about tennis then you should be able to tell me at least some of the current world class pros that are from Minnesota....well?

Well I can be absolutely sure that you are not one of them so it doesn't really matter....

If you were, we'd hear about about it I'm sure.

JavierLW
02-14-2010, 09:10 AM
Driving around Minnesota I'm talking about the local grass roots courts...There a many indoor clubs that are pretty much packed even in the summer months.

I was talking about "local grass root" or non-club courts myself.

You made the illogical statement that if WE drive around they will all be empty. It's not like that everywhere, just in your neck of the woods....

If anything by your own inane theory those courts should be empty, because obviously you have nothing but distain for anyone who actually enjoys or takes some pride in what they are doing but do not happen to be at a certain level.

It takes a lot of hard work to get to a certain level and to remain at that level, in a cold weather area, most of those players tend to belong to clubs, you wont necessarily find them on the public courts.

(but even at that, I play on public courts all the time in the summer, who the heck wants to play a private club when you can play outside anywhere?, but Im of the minority in that even in my area)

Inner Game
02-14-2010, 12:19 PM
I was talking about "local grass root" or non-club courts myself.

You made the illogical statement that if WE drive around they will all be empty. It's not like that everywhere, just in your neck of the woods....

If anything by your own inane theory those courts should be empty, because obviously you have nothing but distain for anyone who actually enjoys or takes some pride in what they are doing but do not happen to be at a certain level.

It takes a lot of hard work to get to a certain level and to remain at that level, in a cold weather area, most of those players tend to belong to clubs, you wont necessarily find them on the public courts.

(but even at that, I play on public courts all the time in the summer, who the heck wants to play a private club when you can play outside anywhere?, but Im of the minority in that even in my area)


Hey Jav...can I call you Jav? I feel like we are close friends....Last time I checked there are quite a few indoor public courts....:) I'm glad you love tennis...that's great for you and the people you play with...But really Jav....how much knowledge do you really have about tennis?

I found this on one of your past posts....
"That's probably the most brilliant point you've ever made. (how do you like that smoke? )

I ran two teams once (3.0 and 3.5) and the worst part is it just gets difficult to keep track of more then X number of players.

It's hard enough to run one team and try to sort everything out so you're sort of successful and everyone has a good time, but it's hard to find the time to do that for more then one team.

Not to mention twice as many calls from players that they cant make it, running around trying to make sure you get 8 people there on TWO different dates, rainout management, etc.... (especially if you have a job during the day)"
__________________
KProOpen - GlobalGut Blk 17 Mains #60, Isospeed Pro Classic X's #63 - Pro Soft Overgrip


This pretty much tells me where your at in your tennis knowledge....I prefer to dance with someone who's a little more tuned into tennis...Maybe after another 3000 post you might get there.....BTW.....I bet your posts out number the forehands you hit last year....a newbie....

I'm out forever when it comes to you Jav.....Have a nice day Jav...:)

BTW weren't you ripping Cindy? LOL Keep your own house in order before trying to control others.


One last thing Jav....I don't equate tennis knowledge necessarily with skill levels....I've known some great coaches that couldn't really hit a ball....It's all about knowledge and the ability to teach someone how to get better...

crystal_clear
02-15-2010, 07:55 AM
Ringers are players who are perceived to be definitely better then the level that they are playing at. It can either be real or imagined. The USTA focuses on players with a certain player history to try to police this. (ie... most former college players cant self rate at 3.5....)

Stacking is when you dont order your teams in order of strength from best to worst. It's more of a reason for someone to complain then anything, especially since it's pretty much subjective as to which line is actually better anyway....

Thanks Javier~

I guess only weak teams might need stacking as survival strategy while strong teams can win no matter what line-up is.

JavierLW
02-15-2010, 08:24 AM
This pretty much tells me where your at in your tennis knowledge....I prefer to dance with someone who's a little more tuned into tennis...Maybe after another 3000 post you might get there.....BTW.....I bet your posts out number the forehands you hit last year....a newbie....

I'm out forever when it comes to you Jav.....Have a nice day Jav...:)

BTW weren't you ripping Cindy? LOL Keep your own house in order before trying to control others.


One last thing Jav....I don't equate tennis knowledge necessarily with skill levels....I've known some great coaches that couldn't really hit a ball....It's all about knowledge and the ability to teach someone how to get better...

You are contradicting yourself here.

But Im glad you're done. Id "prefer to dance" with someone who is of a bit higher intelligence level then you.

JavierLW
02-15-2010, 08:33 AM
Thanks Javier~

I guess only weak teams might need stacking as survival strategy while strong teams can win no matter what line-up is.

That's exactly my feeling on it as well.

But some teams do it just because they think "it's the thing to do", and some teams dont do it just because they are opposed to it. If you know of someone's motivation like that it because easily predictable.

But in a system where enough people do it, you probably get more teams doing it just to keep from being "predictable" and it gets out of hand.

In my area individual wins decide who wins the division so that reduces the stacking somewhat since every single position counts for something.

OrangePower
02-15-2010, 09:15 AM
Thanks Javier~

I guess only weak teams might need stacking as survival strategy while strong teams can win no matter what line-up is.

That's exactly my feeling on it as well.

But some teams do it just because they think "it's the thing to do", and some teams dont do it just because they are opposed to it. If you know of someone's motivation like that it because easily predictable.

But in a system where enough people do it, you probably get more teams doing it just to keep from being "predictable" and it gets out of hand.

In my area individual wins decide who wins the division so that reduces the stacking somewhat since every single position counts for something.

Many of our matches are done in the 3/2 format... where the home team has just 3 courts allocated so we play 1 singles + 1 dubs + 2 dubs first, followed by 2 singles + 3 dubs an hour and a half later. So often my lineup is 'stacked' but my motivation is purely based on scheduling (who can make it for what time).

JavierLW
02-15-2010, 10:27 AM
Many of our matches are done in the 3/2 format... where the home team has just 3 courts allocated so we play 1 singles + 1 dubs + 2 dubs first, followed by 2 singles + 3 dubs an hour and a half later. So often my lineup is 'stacked' but my motivation is purely based on scheduling (who can make it for what time).

That's a good point.

I was also on a team where our match was supposed to be outdoors against a team that also had indoor courts.

There was a 50mph wind that day and the other team decided to only play 1 of the doubles matches indoors (#3).

Whoever the #1 team was on our team didnt want to play outside in the wind so the other team allowed us to change our lineup, my partner and I ended up playing their #1 team. (which killed us partly because I believe if a team is superior and maybe they'd be favored to win, they are VERY favored to win if the conditions are poor)

Luckily Ive only had to deal with a 3/2 or 2/3 or 4/1 situation once or twice. (all when it rained and we had to move indoors)

Inner Game
02-15-2010, 10:51 AM
That's a good point.

I was also on a team where our match was supposed to be outdoors against a team that also had indoor courts.

There was a 50mph wind that day and the other team decided to only play 1 of the doubles matches indoors (#3).

Whoever the #1 team was on our team didnt want to play outside in the wind so the other team allowed us to change our lineup, my partner and I ended up playing their #1 team. (which killed us partly because I believe if a team is superior and maybe they'd be favored to win, they are VERY favored to win if the conditions are poor)

Luckily Ive only had to deal with a 3/2 or 2/3 or 4/1 situation once or twice. (all when it rained and we had to move indoors)

YAWN Big Yawn

JavierLW
02-15-2010, 11:11 AM
YAWN Big Yawn

Not very honest as well. I knew you couldnt control yourself....

eliza
12-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Hi, Guys.
I thought I was the only person unhappy with the way USTA coordinators/captains work!!!
I came back to tennis 4 yrs ago, rated by several Pros between 3.0-3.5, very consistent. But every season I got disappointed, simply because I was NOT playing enough, or at all.
Here in S-E MI leagues work like this: "if you are my HS friend, or you are in my clique, you play".
For the 4th year, having paid USTA, club mem., etc.etc. and registered in 3 leagues, I succeded in playing 5 times in one, 3 in the other, zero in the third(the captains kept playing the same people throughout the entire season!!!!)
It was a joke, and of course the"coordinator"simply ignores my request for explanations.
I have now many doubts on how my scores were reported, I wish tennislink were better, to check. But what for?
Bottom line, I am facing the decision of quitting tennis for good (and I LOVE TENNIS) or move to another state.
There must be a good club out there!!!!!!
Any comment and advice for the future is welcome..........

Borg Forever
12-13-2010, 10:53 AM
USTA is way too hard, for me at least.

After a tournament I'm ready to kill myself over a horrendous choke.

samalo0
12-13-2010, 11:05 AM
Hi, Guys.
I thought I was the only person unhappy with the way USTA coordinators/captains work!!!
I came back to tennis 4 yrs ago, rated by several Pros between 3.0-3.5, very consistent. But every season I got disappointed, simply because I was NOT playing enough, or at all.
Here in S-E MI leagues work like this: "if you are my HS friend, or you are in my clique, you play".
For the 4th year, having paid USTA, club mem., etc.etc. and registered in 3 leagues, I succeded in playing 5 times in one, 3 in the other, zero in the third(the captains kept playing the same people throughout the entire season!!!!)
It was a joke, and of course the"coordinator"simply ignores my request for explanations.
I have now many doubts on how my scores were reported, I wish tennislink were better, to check. But what for?
Bottom line, I am facing the decision of quitting tennis for good (and I LOVE TENNIS) or move to another state.
There must be a good club out there!!!!!!
Any comment and advice for the future is welcome..........

Why not captain your own team and play yourself in every match? I'm amazed that people would recruit you but then never let you play. That seems crazy.

If you don't want to captain a team, you should ask the captain what their policy is about scheduling matches. If that captain was only going to play their friends or best players you should have gone for another team which would let you play.

On my teams, I always tell everyone exactly how I am going to schedule the matches, which is just a balance based on who can play, what team we are playing against, and if it is really important to win or to get people playing who haven't played as much.

I played on a mixed doubles team where I played 3 times, and after losing one match they didn't play me again, so I understand where you are coming from. The captain should be up front with how they are going to handle this or you should find someone else, or captain it yourself!

JRstriker12
12-13-2010, 12:35 PM
Hi, Guys.
I thought I was the only person unhappy with the way USTA coordinators/captains work!!!
I came back to tennis 4 yrs ago, rated by several Pros between 3.0-3.5, very consistent. But every season I got disappointed, simply because I was NOT playing enough, or at all.
Here in S-E MI leagues work like this: "if you are my HS friend, or you are in my clique, you play".
For the 4th year, having paid USTA, club mem., etc.etc. and registered in 3 leagues, I succeded in playing 5 times in one, 3 in the other, zero in the third(the captains kept playing the same people throughout the entire season!!!!)
It was a joke, and of course the"coordinator"simply ignores my request for explanations.
I have now many doubts on how my scores were reported, I wish tennislink were better, to check. But what for?
Bottom line, I am facing the decision of quitting tennis for good (and I LOVE TENNIS) or move to another state.
There must be a good club out there!!!!!!
Any comment and advice for the future is welcome..........

I'm not saying that the captains were right for treating you the way they did, but there may be some factors to consider when playing for a team.

Just a question. You say you were rated 3.0-3.5. But how did you actually rate when you played and what NTRP teams did you play for?

If you were officially rated or self-rated at 3.0 and played up on a 3.5 team, you may not play alot if the captains consider you a weaker player. Keep in mind thay 3.0-3.5 is a big jump in play.

Also another thing to consider is what the captain's goals are. It stinks, but some captains only care about winning and not spreading the playing time around evenly. If they didn't see you as a stronger player on the team (even if they are wrong), these captains may not give you alot of matches.

As for complaining to the coordinator, IMHO, it's not the coordinator's job to tell the captains who they should or shouldn't play on their team. Put yourself in the captain's shoes. Let's say you have someone on your team and you decide not to play them too often or not to play them where they ask to play (singles, a particular court). You may have legit reasons (they are late often, not good singles players, don't get along with any doubles partners... etc). Last thing you need to hear is the coordinator telling you that player X has to play. I don't think that would be right either.

As for tennislink - if you played and the scores were reported, it should be in there. Just search for yourself by name. If you see yourslef listed in a match you didn't play or with strange scores, then you may have a case for the coordinator.

gameboy
12-13-2010, 12:56 PM
JR brings up some very good points.

One additional tip I would say is, if you want to play, look for a team with older team members. Older players have more injuries and have more family obligations. We had a team of 15 guys and we had few instances where we had to really beg and plead to field a team.

dafox
12-13-2010, 12:57 PM
delete thread

dlk
12-13-2010, 01:03 PM
JR brings up some very good points.

One additional tip I would say is, if you want to play, look for a team with older team members. Older players have more injuries and have more family obligations. We had a team of 15 guys and we had few instances where we had to really beg and plead to field a team.

This is true. We had a 13-man team & lost 3 or 4 lines throughout the season to forfeit, as we couldn't fill out the 8 man roster d/t 'real-world' obligations. We had a physician & two attorneys; they work all the time.

eliza
12-13-2010, 02:09 PM
I'm not saying that the captains were right for treating you the way they did, but there may be some factors to consider when playing for a team.

Just a question. You say you were rated 3.0-3.5. But how did you actually rate when you played and what NTRP teams did you play for?

If you were officially rated or self-rated at 3.0 and played up on a 3.5 team, you may not play alot if the captains consider you a weaker player. Keep in mind thay 3.0-3.5 is a big jump in play.

Also another thing to consider is what the captain's goals are. It stinks, but some captains only care about winning and not spreading the playing time around evenly. If they didn't see you as a stronger player on the team (even if they are wrong), these captains may not give you alot of matches.

As for complaining to the coordinator, IMHO, it's not the coordinator's job to tell the captains who they should or shouldn't play on their team. Put yourself in the captain's shoes. Let's say you have someone on your team and you decide not to play them too often or not to play them where they ask to play (singles, a particular court). You may have legit reasons (they are late often, not good singles players, don't get along with any doubles partners... etc). Last thing you need to hear is the coordinator telling you that player X has to play. I don't think that would be right either.

As for tennislink - if you played and the scores were reported, it should be in there. Just search for yourself by name. If you see yourslef listed in a match you didn't play or with strange scores, then you may have a case for the coordinator.

Hi, I played 3.0 doubles (winning all) and 3.5 (winning 3); that's why I was pretty confident.....

eliza
12-13-2010, 02:14 PM
Indoor private clubs usually cater to woman's leagues....they are the one's that not only open their checkbooks for court time but also Clothing/Accessories...I have to chuckle when I waiting for a court and listening to these 3.0 players tell the local pro "I'm better the player X" and I should be playing #1 doubles not #3 It's such a joke....and the pro has to contain himself and not really tell them the truth....
That is what private club tennis is all about!

I agree most women are stupid. My partner is that kind (we should have been #1 doubles), other go to show off their latest tennis dress.....But it is a little your fault, too, right?

I just want to play tennis and get better!!!!

JRstriker12
12-13-2010, 02:27 PM
Hi, I played 3.0 doubles (winning all) and 3.5 (winning 3); that's why I was pretty confident.....

So you were a 3.0 playing up in some of those cases?

On the team that you didn't play at all - was it a 3.5 team?

fuzz nation
12-13-2010, 02:58 PM
Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but I'm a fan of irony...

My #1 reason would be that we can generate a list of 1,001 reasons.

Cindysphinx
12-13-2010, 03:17 PM
I agree most women are stupid.

Now, now. Gotta play nicely in the sandbox if you want to get in the line-up! :)

My partner is that kind (we should have been #1 doubles), other go to show off their latest tennis dress.....But it is a little your fault, too, right?

I just want to play tennis and get better!!!!

Heh, heh. Well, there's nothing wrong with looking good in a tennis dress! :)

Seriously, it sounds like you got three matches while playing up at 3.5. Around here, that's not bad at all.

Also, consider this: I captain. Part of my job is to get my players to win. If I have someone playing up, I will give them a Small Challenge. By that I mean that I will give them the weakest opponents I can arrange to give them. The stronger players will get the Big Challenge: Court 1 against the tough opponents.

All I am saying is that perhaps, just maybe, the captain does in fact think you are weaker than your teammates. Perhaps she gave you the matches she felt comfortable you could win, and there were only three such matches.

Really, there are only two viable solutions to your problem:

1. Captain your own team, or
2. Improve dramatically so that captains are fighting for you and play you all the time.

As for the idea that your scores aren't being reported correctly, I have to say I am not that sympathetic there. Tennislink isn't the greatest site in the world, but you should know exactly what is reported if you can search for your own name. Errors do happen, so do point it out if you find a mistake.

eliza
12-13-2010, 03:38 PM
Now, now. Gotta play nicely in the sandbox if you want to get in the line-up! :)



Heh, heh. Well, there's nothing wrong with looking good in a tennis dress! :)

Seriously, it sounds like you got three matches while playing up at 3.5. Around here, that's not bad at all.

Also, consider this: I captain. Part of my job is to get my players to win. If I have someone playing up, I will give them a Small Challenge. By that I mean that I will give them the weakest opponents I can arrange to give them. The stronger players will get the Big Challenge: Court 1 against the tough opponents.

All I am saying is that perhaps, just maybe, the captain does in fact think you are weaker than your teammates. Perhaps she gave you the matches she felt comfortable you could win, and there were only three such matches.

Really, there are only two viable solutions to your problem:

1. Captain your own team, or
2. Improve dramatically so that captains are fighting for you and play you all the time.

As for the idea that your scores aren't being reported correctly, I have to say I am not that sympathetic there. Tennislink isn't the greatest site in the world, but you should know exactly what is reported if you can search for your own name. Errors do happen, so do point it out if you find a mistake.

Yes, I played up. Maybe you are right, I was the weaker player; but then, how do you explain that that captain kept putting on the line-up people who lost EVERY time? I mean, like my partner (bless her) who would not attack a weak second serve. I got tired and asked her why? And she replies "I do not know how"...................?!?!?!?!

Dresses: I had the complete Sharapova collection, but it is secondary. I would rather have Serena's serve than Maria's looks :)

Looks like I will have to get back to basics, practice well, and then get my own team, so I can play every time, on court 1, eheheheheh

Cindysphinx
12-13-2010, 03:43 PM
Yes, I played up. Maybe you are right, I was the weaker player; but then, how do you explain that that captain kept putting on the line-up people who lost EVERY time? I mean, like my partner (bless her) who would not attack a weak second serve. I got tired and asked her why? And she replies "I do not know how"...................?!?!?!?!



Some of my strong players lose a lot of matches. This is because I have put them on Court One. Or I have put them out against the stronger teams. Or I have had them carry a weaker partner.

As for attacking weak serves . . . it requires sound technique to consistently punish a second serve. Some people are good at it, some are not. Some can do well with a more conservative, deep return that they follow to net.

My return is not my strongest shot. I just don't pound them for winners that often. I feel I do better by mixing it up or by hitting a conservative return but following it to net. There's more than one way to apply pressure -- that's all I'm sayin'. . . .

I'm not saying your club doesn't have issues. I refuse to join the private clubs around here for exactly the reasons you describe. I just figured I'd point out some other possibilities.

eliza
12-13-2010, 03:43 PM
So you were a 3.0 playing up in some of those cases?

On the team that you didn't play at all - was it a 3.5 team?

No, that was a 3.0, a team with 16 players, but the same five got to play ....And the captain had us all buy a uniform (ugly, too), that now I will have to sell

I also mentioned the scores, that because my"partner"in the other team noticed a dicrepancy.

From now on I will have to record everything, where we played, whom etc.?
No trust for captains/coordinators, that's kind of sad.

catfish
12-13-2010, 04:55 PM
Coordinators are responsible for running the league. Captains are responsible for their own teams. It is not a coordinator's responsibility to get involved in a team captain's line-up decisions and it would be really inappropriate for a coordinator to do that.

If you are not happy on your team, the best thing to do is find another one or captain your own team. Once you captain a team, it will give you some insight into how hard it is to please everyone on a team. Captains and coordinators do not have easy jobs, believe me.

Fedace
12-13-2010, 05:16 PM
I could never dislike USTA tennis. That lure of Silver Plate at the end of the Rainbow is just too enticing...........ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,, better than you know what..

Inner Game
12-14-2010, 09:16 AM
Some of my strong players lose a lot of matches. This is because I have put them on Court One. Or I have put them out against the stronger teams. Or I have had them carry a weaker partner.

As for attacking weak serves . . . it requires sound technique to consistently punish a second serve. Some people are good at it, some are not. Some can do well with a more conservative, deep return that they follow to net.

My return is not my strongest shot. I just don't pound them for winners that often. I feel I do better by mixing it up or by hitting a conservative return but following it to net. There's more than one way to apply pressure -- that's all I'm sayin'. . . .

I'm not saying your club doesn't have issues. I refuse to join the private clubs around here for exactly the reasons you describe. I just figured I'd point out some other possibilities.

If you are playing women below 4.5 learn how to lob off the return and drop shot and you will win every match....:)

manongpatrick
12-14-2010, 04:39 PM
I despise the people that tried to get us DQed even though they were close to us in every match.