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Klaus
02-03-2010, 04:17 PM
My mixed doubles partner and I signed up to play in a NX3.5d category USTA tournament in February, and I noticed that one of the other teams has a 4.0 player on it. Is that legal? I also noticed he played in 26 tournaments in 2009 including nationals. Should I bring his NRTP rating up to the tournament director, or is there a legal way he can be playing 3.5? The tournament is a USTA tournament, and the category is 3.5, not a combination like 6.0 or 7.0. His partner is a 3.5.

Sumo
02-03-2010, 06:49 PM
Don't be that guy.

athiker
02-03-2010, 06:55 PM
Don't be that guy? What does that mean? What is the point of signing up and playing in a 3.5 tournament if it doesn't matter what the ratings of the other players are? Or maybe better, why host a 3.5 tournament if you are going to let higher rated players play in it?

The 4.0 signing up to play in a 3.5 tourney is the guy that shouldn't be that guy. Assuming all the facts are correct of course. Why not verify it if it looks wrong? If its legit who is hurt?

Sumo
02-03-2010, 06:57 PM
The 4.0 signing up to play in a 3.5 tourney is the guy that shouldn't be that guy.

I agree 100%. I'm just not one to taddle.

athiker
02-03-2010, 07:08 PM
Gotcha, I understand. It would just tick me off to pay money and travel to enter a tourney to meet up with a guy I knew beforehand was a 4.0.

It seems pretty easy to verify after all, its not like a rating is a secret or anything. I would think the tourney would check the USTA database for all entrants automatically, but I don't know. Maybe he had a medical issue that dropped his rating...or there is more than one player with the same name.

J_R_B
02-03-2010, 07:08 PM
Don't be that guy.

I tend to agree. Just think how much sweeter it'll be when you beat him. I'm guessing he signed up before the YE bumps came out. If so, he may actually be eligible for the tournament.

daveyboy
02-03-2010, 07:09 PM
I agree 100%. I'm just not one to taddle.

I don't think its a case of "Oh, I shouldn't taddle", I think its more of a case of knowing someone is doing something they're not suppsed to and speaking up. If a 4.0 plays in a 3.5 tourney, its cheating. If someone's going to lie about what level you play at, go all out- play the 3.0 super seniors at age 21. Jeez, I might have a shot at the 8 and under juniors... I'm 40.

Now, to the defense of the 4.0, they may be coming back from injury or have a valid reason for playing down. Around here, though, I've seen it too often and I'm glad someone finally was "That Guy."

Ronaldo
02-03-2010, 07:13 PM
Don't be that guy.

Get all the girls signed up for the 3.5 division together and demand the tournament director remove this cad.

Topaz
02-03-2010, 07:13 PM
This happened to me in a past tournament...3.5 doubles, and one of the other teams had a 4.0 signed up. Brought it up to the director, and he said that he had given her permission to play the draw.

Her and her partner ended up winning pretty easily.

*shrug*

I would say bring it up. Like others said, the whole point of playing an NTRP is that you play others in your same rating. If you want to play people higher than you, then you play up or play open.

Just...be prepared for nothing to happen even if you do bring it up.

I'd be curious to know how this 4.0 signed up...if you do it online on tennislink and you have a 4.0 computer rating, you can't register online. But a director can enter someone manually.

beernutz
02-03-2010, 07:15 PM
My mixed doubles partner and I signed up to play in a NX3.5d category USTA tournament in February, and I noticed that one of the other teams has a 4.0 player on it. Is that legal? I also noticed he played in 26 tournaments in 2009 including nationals. Should I bring his NRTP rating up to the tournament director, or is there a legal way he can be playing 3.5? The tournament is a USTA tournament, and the category is 3.5, not a combination like 6.0 or 7.0. His partner is a 3.5.

I am guessing that you or your partner is a 3.0?

Is there anyone else in the tournament, besides possibly your partner, who knows the 4.0 player? Perhaps you could ask them what they think.

MissJennieB
02-04-2010, 09:30 AM
My mixed doubles partner and I signed up to play in a NX3.5d category USTA tournament in February, and I noticed that one of the other teams has a 4.0 player on it. Is that legal? I also noticed he played in 26 tournaments in 2009 including nationals. Should I bring his NRTP rating up to the tournament director, or is there a legal way he can be playing 3.5? The tournament is a USTA tournament, and the category is 3.5, not a combination like 6.0 or 7.0. His partner is a 3.5.

I'm not the one to taddle either- if someone wants to sandbag in a tourney, then let them. Here in Denver, the tennis community is small and these sandbaggers get bad reps.

If you do end up playing against him, just casually bring up the subject. Maybe play dumb and say something like... "wow you play very well for a 3.5, you should be a 4.0!" Then see what his response would be.

But regardless, you should have fun either way. Just remember, ANY ONE can be beat.

JavierLW
02-04-2010, 09:46 AM
I'm not the one to taddle either- if someone wants to sandbag in a tourney, then let them. Here in Denver, the tennis community is small and these sandbaggers get bad reps.

If you do end up playing against him, just casually bring up the subject. Maybe play dumb and say something like... "wow you play very well for a 3.5, you should be a 4.0!" Then see what his response would be.

But regardless, you should have fun either way. Just remember, ANY ONE can be beat.

No way.

If you're not going to at least mention it to the coordinator, then dont you dare bring it up to the player! What's the point of "not taddling", if you're going to make yourself look like "that person" anyway?

I think they should just shoot an email to the coordinator and point it out (hopefully before the tournament so something can be done about it without screwing that player too much like moving them to 4.0).

It's up to the coordinator to be a bad guy then at that point (or not), it has nothing to do with you and the player need not even know you said anything...

JRstriker12
02-04-2010, 09:55 AM
I'm not the one to taddle either- if someone wants to sandbag in a tourney, then let them. Here in Denver, the tennis community is small and these sandbaggers get bad reps.

If you do end up playing against him, just casually bring up the subject. Maybe play dumb and say something like... "wow you play very well for a 3.5, you should be a 4.0!" Then see what his response would be.

But regardless, you should have fun either way. Just remember, ANY ONE can be beat.

Anyone can be beat..... just generally not by someone .5 below them on the NTRP scale. If there was no advantage to it, people wouldn't sandbag...

It's not really so hard to play at your level and there is no other reason to sandbag, other than to spoil the enjoyment of others in the tourney and make a cheap grab at some wins by cheating.

If the persone in question has a waiver then okay, but if I sign up for a 4.0 tourney and I find some 4.5 or 5.0 playing in it, I'm going to be like WTF??? I paid my $40 to play against people on my level. If I want to play against someone a few levels up I can A. play up or B. play Open tourneys.

MrCLEAN
02-04-2010, 10:03 AM
I'd be that guy in a heartbeat. I've played sandbaggers twice in the first round of Major Zones that I've traveled to and paid money for hotels ect, and won a total of 1 game between the 2 matches. If it's a levels tournament, there's no place for people playing down a level. That's why they offer the 4.0 draw too.

OP, send me the tournament info, I'll call! lol

JavierLW
02-04-2010, 10:07 AM
I'd be that guy in a heartbeat. I've played sandbaggers twice in the first round of Major Zones that I've traveled to and paid money for hotels ect, and won a total of 1 game between the 2 matches. If it's a levels tournament, there's no place for people playing down a level. That's why they offer the 4.0 draw too.

OP, send me the tournament info, I'll call! lol

Ya, it's funny how people think bringing something like this up is being "that guy", but it's perfectly okay for the other guy to cheat.....

Maybe it's the phenomenon you hear about in New York where someone got robbed and 50 people were there to see it but there are no witnesses....

kingdaddy41788
02-04-2010, 10:15 AM
Unfortunately he probably isn't "officially" a 4.0. Before I was rated I had the option to enter any of the draws. Once you're officially rated, the registration only lets you sign up for what you're eligible to play in. It's extremely unfair, and there should be some program in place to correct it, but he may technically be able to play 3.5...

Klaus
02-04-2010, 10:24 AM
I did shoot an e-mail as Javier suggested. No response yet.

I was mistaken--both members of this team are 4.0.

The guy has played in about 25 USTA tournaments in 2009 all the way up until December including 2009 Nationals, so it's probable that he has no medical issues.

This team signed up via a telephone call on or about 2/2/10 after official on-line registration was over, but extended for doubles with a call and a credit card number to the organizer.)

My partner is a 3.5, but it's still daunting given this guy's record of wins.

Seems unfair, but I am ready to play this team if need be, and win.

JRstriker12
02-04-2010, 10:27 AM
Ya, it's funny how people think bringing something like this up is being "that guy", but it's perfectly okay for the other guy to cheat.....

Maybe it's the phenomenon you hear about in New York where someone got robbed and 50 people were there to see it but there are no witnesses....

True. People don't want to be "That guy" until the other guy targets you, then they want a ton of "That guy" to show up and help them out.

"Uhm, did anyone see who /stole the radio out of my car / snatched my tennis gear/ ate my food in the fridge/ took my iphone?????"

"Sorry, I don't want to be "that guy," sucks for you."

Ronaldo
02-04-2010, 10:40 AM
I did shoot an e-mail as Javier suggested. No response yet.

I was mistaken--both members of this team are 4.0.

The guy has played in about 25 USTA tournaments in 2009 all the way up until December including 2009 Nationals, so it's probable that he has no medical issues.

This team signed up via a telephone call on or about 2/2/10 after official on-line registration was over, but extended for doubles with a call and a credit card number to the organizer.)

My partner is a 3.5, but it's still daunting given this guy's record of wins.

Seems unfair, but I am ready to play this team if need be, and win.

Back in the day at 3.5 if a certain player signed up early, most players would not enter. So he waited till the last day. Thank goodness one year the 3.5 level was cancelled due to lack of entrants. He had to play 4.5, won the tourney and bumped up the next year.

RoddickAce
02-04-2010, 10:46 AM
>_> sandbaggers...well it's better than my situation. I live in an area where there aren't really "ratings". Just A, B, C divisions. A = 5.0+, B = 4.0-4.5, C = <3.5.

A while back, I played in the C division, and there was a guy who plays and wins in Division A in the same draw...as the #3 seed. And then I got beaten badly like 2 and 0 or sumn by someguy who lost to the Div A guy in 3 close sets.

So essentially, 5.0's played in 3.5 tournaments o_o cuz nobody checks here! !?!??!

Sumo
02-04-2010, 02:09 PM
I did shoot an e-mail as Javier suggested. No response yet.

I was mistaken--both members of this team are 4.0.

The guy has played in about 25 USTA tournaments in 2009 all the way up until December including 2009 Nationals, so it's probable that he has no medical issues.

This team signed up via a telephone call on or about 2/2/10 after official on-line registration was over, but extended for doubles with a call and a credit card number to the organizer.)

My partner is a 3.5, but it's still daunting given this guy's record of wins.

Seems unfair, but I am ready to play this team if need be, and win.

Was he playing all those tournaments in the 3.5 division while rated a 4.0?

Klaus
02-04-2010, 02:30 PM
yes, he played all those tournaments and league play while a 3.5

he was bumped up at the end of 2009.

He is appealing his rating bump.

The tournament director said he was allowing him to compete in 3.5 becasue is appealing his rating bump.

jonnyjack
02-04-2010, 02:48 PM
yes, he played all those tournaments and league play while a 3.5

he was bumped up at the end of 2009.

He is appealing his rating bump.

The tournament director said he was allowing him to compete in 3.5 becasue is appealing his rating bump.

Appeals are automatic and instant so he should already know if his appeal was granted. The director shouldn't allow him to play down until AFTER a successful appeal.

This is why USTA is BS. Can believe there are really people taking the side of this "4.0".

This happened for a tourney this past December where the registration started before the year end ratings came out. Once the draws came out (after the year end ratings), the players were placed in the draws of their new rating as they should.

kylebarendrick
02-04-2010, 04:52 PM
My guess - the automated appeal was denied. The player then sent some other BS to the USTA attempting to explain why their appeal should be granted even though they dominated at 3.5. The USTA never responded (low priority) so the bozo thinks they should be allowed to play down while their "appeal" is pending.

JavierLW
02-04-2010, 04:57 PM
yes, he played all those tournaments and league play while a 3.5

he was bumped up at the end of 2009.

He is appealing his rating bump.

The tournament director said he was allowing him to compete in 3.5 becasue is appealing his rating bump.

He probably wont win his appeal, odds are way down this year of winning one.

Not much you can do about it though I guess. Just consider it next time the tournament director decides to run a tournament whether it's really worth putting up with this sort of nonsense.

Cindysphinx
02-04-2010, 05:46 PM
Sorry, but I think this is outrageous.

Your rating is your rating until it isn't your rating anymore.

I would pitch a fit and withdraw from the tournament. Doing otherwise just validates this nonsense.

And where is this guy's pride and self respect? There is no way on earth I would enter a 3.0 tournament with a big ol' "3.5" next to my name. If I appealed down for legitimate reasons, fine. But I would be ashamed to have the whole world see me blatantly sandbagging like that.

Topaz
02-04-2010, 07:35 PM
^^^Pretty much agreed with all this!

Taxvictim
02-04-2010, 08:52 PM
Don't pitch a fit, just ask for you money back (including the Tennislink fee). That might get the director's attention more than anything.

Klaus
02-05-2010, 09:09 AM
So the 4.0 stays, and gets a BYE on the draw. My partner and I have a SF at 9:30 a.m. If we win, then we have a QF at 12:30. If we win that, then the F is at 4:00 p.m. Nice way to spend a Sunday. I should have just shut my mouth. I'll never participate in a tournament organized by these people.

WTF? Is it normal to have 3 matches in one day?

Topaz
02-05-2010, 09:15 AM
So the 4.0 stays, and gets a BYE on the draw. My partner and I have a SF at 9:30 a.m. If we win, then we have a QF at 12:30. If we win that, then the F is at 4:00 p.m. Nice way to spend a Sunday. I should have just shut my mouth. I'll never participate in a tournament organized by these people.

WTF? Is it normal to have 3 matches in one day?

This is a USTA tournament, right?

There are rules set determining how many matches you can have in a day (though sometimes you have to force directors to stick to these rules), and I believe if they are all doubles, then 3 a day is okay.

Good luck, have fun, and try to let the other stuff go by the side, at least while you are playing!

And then, yeah, wouldn't give this TD anymore of your money in the future!

JavierLW
02-05-2010, 10:44 AM
So the 4.0 stays, and gets a BYE on the draw. My partner and I have a SF at 9:30 a.m. If we win, then we have a QF at 12:30. If we win that, then the F is at 4:00 p.m. Nice way to spend a Sunday. I should have just shut my mouth. I'll never participate in a tournament organized by these people.

WTF? Is it normal to have 3 matches in one day?

Not really. I know for singles you cant have more then 2, Im not sure if that applys to all events or not though. (it's in the "Friend of Court" somewhere)

But seeing how he's letting a 4.0 player sign up, I guess you can throw the USTA rulebook out the window.

There's probably someone you can report him too on the basis that you didnt really get what you signed up for.

Or obviously dont bother with his tournaments again. It sounds no better then some cheap club tournament, you might as well have 8 game pro sets with no ad scoring and a 10 minute break between matches (which is actually better anyway sometimes).

Taxvictim
02-05-2010, 12:13 PM
So the 4.0 stays, and gets a BYE on the draw.

In a small USTA singles tournament once, I got a bye on the first round, then my opponent didn't show up for Round 2 (it looked like rain), and then I was in the finals. Lost 1-6, 1-6 in 50 minutes, and took home the 2nd place trophy. Felt really stupid walking out with that after some of these guys played two long tough matches. They should have made that one a round robin.

Cindysphinx
02-06-2010, 07:50 AM
In a small USTA singles tournament once, I got a bye on the first round, then my opponent didn't show up for Round 2 (it looked like rain), and then I was in the finals. Lost 1-6, 1-6 in 50 minutes, and took home the 2nd place trophy. Felt really stupid walking out with that after some of these guys played two long tough matches. They should have made that one a round robin.

Even a round robin won't guarantee you won't wind up with a stupid result.

In 2005, I was playing a 2.5 singles tournament. Just three players. Let's call my opponents Pam and Maria.

Round One has me playing Pam. Pam was a friend, and I knew I was much stronger. If you define "stronger" as "much more adept at pushing," that is. I won the first set easily, probably 6-1. Then I tweaked a knee injury and started having all kinds of trouble and Pam won the second set 3-6. We played a 10-point tiebreak and Pam hooked me on match point. Alas, there was an official standing on Pam's baseline who overruled the call and awarded the match to me.

Round Two had Pam playing Maria. Maria did not show, so Pam won by default. I was unaware of this because I had gone home and was icing my knee hoping to get it ready for the next match against Maria.

For Round Three, I left home and got a cell phone call on the way. My husband was calling to tell me about Maria's default. That made me the tournament winner. I continued out there to pick up my trophy. I took a few photos holding the trophy standing next to the tournament director; they needed them for the newsletter, they said.

As I was driving home with my trophy on the seat next to me, my phone rang again. It was the tournament director saying that Maria had shown up after all. She had a problem the previous day (needed to drive her son to the Marine base so he could ship out to Iraq). It was up to me. I could keep the trophy or I could come back and play Maria. I turned the car around. Who wants a trophy they didn't earn fair and square?

I played Maria, and I was lucky it wasn't a beatdown. Maria didn't push. She had strokes that looked like actual strokes, and she punished short balls. I think I managed to win 4 games, and I hoped this might be enough to make me the tournament winner based on the tiebreaker since all of us had won one match.

The tournament director studied the rules and advised that the tiebreak was sets lost. Pam had lost one set. Maria had lost two sets. And I had lost three.

Even though Pam hadn't beaten anyone on the court, she was the winner. I, who had beaten Pam, finished last. Maria went home with the second place trophy.

And that was the last tournament I ever played.

Cindy -- who takes secret pleasure in the fact that the tournament director never mailed Pam her winner's trophy

MrCLEAN
02-06-2010, 08:56 AM
Now that's a funny story! But good job going back and playing the match.

Taxvictim, after losing in the final, it sounds like you were eligible for consolation, did you play that? That would be something else to lose in a main draw final, and still be eligible for cons.

equinox
02-06-2010, 08:58 AM
So the 4.0 stays, and gets a BYE on the draw. My partner and I have a SF at 9:30 a.m. If we win, then we have a QF at 12:30. If we win that, then the F is at 4:00 p.m. Nice way to spend a Sunday. I should have just shut my mouth. I'll never participate in a tournament organized by these people.

WTF? Is it normal to have 3 matches in one day?

Only if you've entered singles and doubles and the tournament is trying to get heads up because of the potential for bad weather. Mostly two matches of one type. Better tournaments separate the S/D 1,2, finals days

Could be worse I've waited 4hrs+ after scheduled match time for a free court to become available from the desk. Couldn't leave the venue or i'd be forfeited.

equinox
02-06-2010, 09:00 AM
This team signed up via a telephone call on or about 2/2/10 after official on-line registration was over, but extended for doubles with a call and a credit card number to the organizer.)


If that information is true, that's a very suspect action. Who signs up via a phone call and gives CC info to an unknown person?

JRstriker12
02-06-2010, 10:40 AM
Even a round robin won't guarantee you won't wind up with a stupid result.

In 2005, I was playing a 2.5 singles tournament. Just three players. Let's call my opponents Pam and Maria.

Round One has me playing Pam. Pam was a friend, and I knew I was much stronger. If you define "stronger" as "much more adept at pushing," that is. I won the first set easily, probably 6-1. Then I tweaked a knee injury and started having all kinds of trouble and Pam won the second set 3-6. We played a 10-point tiebreak and Pam hooked me on match point. Alas, there was an official standing on Pam's baseline who overruled the call and awarded the match to me.

Round Two had Pam playing Maria. Maria did not show, so Pam won by default. I was unaware of this because I had gone home and was icing my knee hoping to get it ready for the next match against Maria.

For Round Three, I left home and got a cell phone call on the way. My husband was calling to tell me about Maria's default. That made me the tournament winner. I continued out there to pick up my trophy. I took a few photos holding the trophy standing next to the tournament director; they needed them for the newsletter, they said.

As I was driving home with my trophy on the seat next to me, my phone rang again. It was the tournament director saying that Maria had shown up after all. She had a problem the previous day (needed to drive her son to the Marine base so he could ship out to Iraq). It was up to me. I could keep the trophy or I could come back and play Maria. I turned the car around. Who wants a trophy they didn't earn fair and square?

I played Maria, and I was lucky it wasn't a beatdown. Maria didn't push. She had strokes that looked like actual strokes, and she punished short balls. I think I managed to win 4 games, and I hoped this might be enough to make me the tournament winner based on the tiebreaker since all of us had won one match.

The tournament director studied the rules and advised that the tiebreak was sets lost. Pam had lost one set. Maria had lost two sets. And I had lost three.

Even though Pam hadn't beaten anyone on the court, she was the winner. I, who had beaten Pam, finished last. Maria went home with the second place trophy.

And that was the last tournament I ever played.

Cindy -- who takes secret pleasure in the fact that the tournament director never mailed Pam her winner's trophy

Wow! That's effed!!!

Something doesn't seem right though. I would think a default has to go down as something like a 0-6, 0-6 defeat.

kingdaddy41788
02-06-2010, 10:50 AM
Wow! That's effed!!!

Something doesn't seem right though. I would think a default has to go down as something like a 0-6, 0-6 defeat.

It did. That's how Maria lost the two sets...