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View Full Version : Personal opinion: midsize vs. midplus


ferrari_827
04-29-2005, 08:03 AM
I know this topic has been revisited a few times, but I thought I'd add a few personal comments after playing for a couple of months now regularly with a midsize (IPrestige Mid, RDXmid) and a midplus (Yonex Ti80).

To me, the pros and cons just about cancel each other out.

I find that midsizes do provide more accuracy, which is important if you have a high-risk game going for the corners and lines. While the difference isn't huge, I definitely noticed my error rate with the midplus (Ti80) due to missing the lines going up by about 15%.

However, on return of serve, the error rate due to mishits increased with the midsize vs. the midplus, especially the IPrestige Mid, by about 20%. There are more mishits in general with the midsizes but the difference is small except on *return of serve*. And this is off fast serves (90+mph).

A few of my tennis opponents commented that I was bit more accurate and effective with the midsizes vs. the midplus. One thing is for sure, against a very big server I would have to use the midplus for return of serve.

So for me, the difference in performance of midsize vs. midplus is small enough that it's not worth agonizing over and I simply play with a racket that I feel like on a certain day. I sometimes switch rackets in the middle of a match just because I want a different feel, almost like wanting a different "flavor".

AndrewD
04-29-2005, 10:53 AM
ferrari,
it is unfortunate we can't have this discussion in a nice, civilised manner because, as you say, its not really a big deal just an exchange of tennis-related experiences.

Ive actually found that going back down to a mid-size has helped 'cure' a rather nasty wrist problem I was having. Not sure exactly why it has helped but its best not to argue with a cure. Ive noticed a few of the things you mentioned, in particular a drop-off in my rate of unforced errors. Mishits haven't really been a problem, most likely because I balance them out against shots hit long with the midplus and oversize frames. Im finding, in the course of a match, that I'll only get one or two framed shots whereas previously I had the tendency to hit more than that long or wide. So, in that regard, the mid hasn't been a liability.

The biggest difference I've found is not in return of serve but in the serve itself. I have more control with the mid and my action feels more fluent but there is a substantial drop in power. That's not all bad as it means I have to really 'throw' the racquet at the ball whereas with a larger headed frame I was getting into the habit of using too much arm. I have also noticed a shap decline in spin but a large part of that could be the strings Im using (very basic nylon and for the low tension I use, should probably have a thing gauge string).

All up, its been great for my wrist and I find it to be a better way for me, after an absence from the game, to re-learn my strokes and tighten up my technique. However, if I was going to be playing high level competition again I think I would be, wrist permitting, looking at something in the 95sq range.

I should also say that playing on medium paced hard courts (Rebound Ace) I do get a truer bounce than dirt courts but still have that little extra time to set-up for the shot that you dont get on cement or plexi-pave etc.

ferrari_827
04-29-2005, 11:02 AM
I do agree that your mechanics decline a bit with extended use of a midplus unless you are attentive and play alot. I notice that my motions are more precise with a midsize, so it does benefit to occasionally go back to a midsize to correct sloppiness.

And you are correct, accuracy is most noticeable on *serves* with a midsize vs. midplus. Higher percentage and placement. With the midplus, while some serves were hit harder, more serves were going out and I didn't quite as confident as with a midsize.

Kaptain Karl
04-29-2005, 11:19 AM
ferrari - Your "research" is flawed because you bring in too many variables. If you played with the same model racket -- one Mid; one MP -- your conclusions might have some validity.

In other words ... it's an interesting anecdote. But that's about all.

- KK

AndrewD
04-29-2005, 11:38 AM
Karl,

It wasnt meant to be anything other than a personal opinion.

The last thread like this degenerated because people misread opinion as gospel and I think Ferrari was deliberately trying to avoid that. If you have a read you'll see he says 'for me' and 'I find', in the same way I said ' I've found' and 'I've noticed'. Those phrases are in there so people can't read the thread as anything other than personal opinion, experience and preference.

I tell you what, this place gives me the ***** sometimes.

NoBadMojo
04-29-2005, 11:50 AM
ferrari since this topic, by your own admission as been beaten to death, why do you brng it up yet again then? and since you have, i couldnt disagree more..mid sized frames do NOT give more control..they give LESS control. If your scope is limited to directional control they may give you very marginally better directional control (ie the dif beween hitting the outside edge of the line vs the inside edge) and only for some. the reality is mid sized frames are often harder to spin and spin is your friend in that it is how better players have control. Depth control is HUGE and without question depth control is far better with larged headed frames MP and up..it is just far easier to keep the ball deeper in the court (unles you wish to hit short or angled) rather than trying to force a midsize to do that..also, lets talk mis hits..i think maybe some of you might agree that it is easier to mis hit a smaller headed frame than a larger one? if you mis hit with a mid sized frame you get a short nothing ball with no power and depth and betterplayers gobble those up. also not buying that you will havebettertechnique by using a mid sized frame..thats crap...good technique is a function of the operator not the racquet and if you can only have good technique w. a mid sized frame, then you are either just lazy or are severly lacking in discipline (or both) or just making stuff up. other than the above and with some other exceptions, i think you guys are almost right :). in the 3 years i've been here teaching and playing the better players that come thru, i have encountered a total of 2 better players using anything 95 or smaller (4.5 and up..one played W and uses PMacs frame and the other wins Natl 35 events and uses a 6.1 Classic did i get that right?)..the rest of them were all over the place w. their frame choices, but none of them were under a 98 headsize..)..oh wait, we do have a so called teaching pro on the island using a iPestige but he cant either hit or demonstrate a volley properly (it;s true). conversely, i have been lectured on how to play T by lots of 3.5's wielding ps85's and pc's and such..it's pretty funny..i'm only passing along observations, so no persona;l attacks please. thankyou

Kaptain Karl
04-29-2005, 12:09 PM
AndrewD - I suspect you are "reading into my post" some level of acrimony which ... was not there.

Go for a run. Hit the heavy bag. Relax, man.

- KK

ferrari_827
04-29-2005, 12:26 PM
This post was just anecdotal and I didn't mean to generalize my finding as truth for other players by any means. It's just a personal view.

And if I was forced to play with people above 5.0 with huge serves I'd probably need to play with the midplus all the time. So I'm not generalizing this for better players either.

But I can say that midsizes do provide better directional precision while midplus provides better spin. So you can control the ball better using spin with a midplus but with directional control with a midsize.

Kevo
04-29-2005, 12:28 PM
I recently switched from a RDX 500 Mid to the Midplus version of the same frame. I mainly did this because I was mishitting more than normal later in longer matches. Now I know some people are thinking get fitter, and I will make an effort to do that. However, I found the midplus to play very similar to the mid. It has maybe a smidgen more power and a smidgen less control. My mishits have roughly equalized over the course of a three set match, so it's a noticeable improvement for me. It might be less appealing for me to make a switch like this with a frame that is not so control oriented like the RDX, but it worked in this case.

P.S. I'm going to sell my mid and get a second midplus. If anyone would like to trade or buy a mid, let me know.

NoBadMojo
04-29-2005, 12:32 PM
aha ferrari i see..so what you are saying is that the frames for the better players (players frames) are actually for the lesser players.

f200
04-29-2005, 02:25 PM
NoBadMojo-

1) The example you recount about seeing only two people that use a frame under 98 seems a little odd. You are basically tossing almost every popular Wilson stick in recent years under the bus except the Surge. That is a lot of sticks, and popular ones at that.

ONE decent player using a 6.1 (Classic, Hyper, nCode)? NONE using an ntour, Htour, or Hammer Tour? Might be that Wilson is traditionally strong here, but wow these frames seem very popular among local juniors, 5.0s, college players, and open level players I see across the *******.

I can see where 90-93 might be getting scarce due to power, but I'm not sure it's fair to toss in the 95s just yet.

2) You may not think your posts are attacks on anybody, but you toss around things like "snobs," and "people who just play with their sister or mom or whatever" pretty freely. As they say, if it quacks like a duck…

All well and good - strong opinions are good. But please drop the "sorry, no offense, please don't attack me" after the inflammatory stuff. You can say whatever you want, but you have to be willing to take what comes back, too.

schaefferm46
04-29-2005, 02:29 PM
I like a mid size because the small rackets feel better

NoBadMojo
04-29-2005, 02:44 PM
i'm not dishing anything out f200 and am making general comments which are based upon true and honest observations. i suggest it is you who is doing the personal attacking here. this thread was from january or something and someone else interested in attacking me brought it up. so guess if someone is a tennis snob and they are also aware of it, then i suppose they may feel it is a personal attack, altho that wasnt my intention. there was a 5.5 who came thru i played last week who was using whatever the remake is/was of the Wilson Skunk in a 95 headsize, but that was well after this post originated in JANUARY.

larion
04-29-2005, 02:46 PM
NoBadMojo,
Mid frames have significantly better directional control due to their uniform string pattern, which translates into a more consistent stringbed. I would not argue that some midplus and OS have also a well designed stringbed, i.e. ProKennex 7G., but most of them have different density across the stringbed. That results in loss of directional control where you do not notice a mishit, but the result is not what you expected from the racquet. Regarding depth control I would tend to disagree with you and using you argument would claim that it all depends on your technique. You can produce lots of topspin on a mid if you have the right technique. On top of that mid frames are more maneuverable, which works for my serve as well as volleys.
Larion

NoBadMojo
04-29-2005, 03:06 PM
hey everyone do whatever they like...but i'm not buying this midsize stuff and neither are the manufacturers, almost everyone of the WTA pros,and a good chunk of the ATP players. Larion I am familair with the diff between denser stringbeds and the theories behind this stuff..Volkl does a great job with their MP frames using the PCP stringing system with denser strings in the middle and more open out of the center of percussion. Volkl manufacturers exactly one mid sized frame and it's a 93 and then nothing until 98. Babolat makes NO frames under what a 98 or 100? (except for junior frames), so not only am I full of crap, but so are all these manufacturers..they're never gonna stay in business unless they offer mid sized frames.. You all may resurrect and continue this thread as you like on your own..I'm out...and what better chance for others to attack...knock yourselves out

newnuse
04-29-2005, 03:59 PM
I switched from a MS to a MP after my Fox broke. I played with the Yamaha Cermic 100 for several years. I could never make the adjustment to a MP. The feel and feedback from a MP was lacking for me.

The midsize rackets is like an extension of my arm. I know exactly where the ball hits the racket and where it's going. I have the confidence to aim for a line and hit it.

I never had that confidence playing with a MP. The feel is just not there on a larger string bed for me.

Midsize rackets are like steel shaft irons and MP are like graphite irons for me. I might hit it 10-20 yards longer with graphite irons, but I just love the feel/feedback of my steel shaft irons.

Anybody want to buy some graphite shaft irons??

Redflea
04-29-2005, 04:49 PM
ferrari since this topic, by your own admission as been beaten to death, why do you brng it up yet again then?

Because he wanted to talk about it...no one needs any more reason to post a thought here than that.

..thats crap

Nicely said...encourages friendly give and take, exchange of ideas.

...you are either just lazy or are severly lacking in discipline (or both) or just making stuff up.

More friendly stuff...nothing personal there.

..i'm only passing along observations, so no personal attacks please. thankyou

Your previous comments belie your final statement. Maybe you should not be surprised if someone takes exception and you are in turn, "attacked."

You mix genuinely good insights and information w/emotional, personal comments that are easily interpreted as rude. You mean well, that is clear...but you miss the mark in your delivery.

Flatspin
04-29-2005, 05:21 PM
NBMJ ...... I really enjoy your observations and learn from alot that you observe. I, however, must bring up an important point. You mention that your observations are those who pass through the facilities on the island. You are not necessarily seeing the best players. Only those who can afford such facilities. I play with several groups of players on the free public facilities (free) and we propose that we can kick the "yuppy style" players asses that most often visit your facilities. LOL ...... I'm just having some fun here ... don't take it personal. However, I think there is a chance that you may not be seeing a true picture. Just a thought. I remain open!!

f200
04-30-2005, 08:42 AM
You mix genuinely good insights and information w/emotional, personal comments that are easily interpreted as rude. You mean well, that is clear...but you miss the mark in your delivery.

Redflea, you've said it much better than I can.

tom4ny
04-30-2005, 09:07 AM
first time poster, long time reader.

i enjoy threads like this and all the banter that goes with it. you folks arent that rude really and if it was so bad i'd think that you'd stop posting. but im glad ya dont.

anyhoo, i'm a 4.5 baseliner trying to push my level up so i try to play with people that are better than me. that's were i think that having a slightly bigger stick helps me. i dont really analyze directional control or stroke mechanics. seems thats something for practice sessions. in a match i focus on one point at a time and the ball sometimes moves so fast i dont even have time to think. its all reaction. particularly with this lefty i play against who has this wicked inside out - opposite court forehand.

i picked my midplus cause i liked, not cuz it was a certain headsize. but i think that those extra square inches help me out more often than not.

peace out.

am8622
04-30-2005, 09:58 AM
My 2 cents: racquet manufacturers no longer making as many mids doesn't translate to mids not being worthwhile for higher level tennis. Manufacturers have a host of other reasons, the least of which is worrying about 3.5s getting better at tennis. Their intentions are not that noble, they're selling racquets, not rankings or ability. They could care less if we all stink horribly. That might even be better from their perspective - we might be more likely to buy their wares more often 'cause we stink and we're looking for any old gimmick to help us get better.

I guess this sort of puts me at odds with NoBadMojo, but I enjoy his posts and I think he brings up things worth debating about.

antontd
04-30-2005, 09:00 PM
NoBadMojo, what’s your problem? You probably hate people skilled enough to use small headed frames. Even if they can't, who gives a damn? I broke the strings of 2 PS85s and had to use a Midplus. I will buy and string more PS85s.
Federer uses a 90(88") racquet. Give him a Babolat or Volkl and he will win the Golden Grand Slam. Thank you, but no thanks.