PDA

View Full Version : international sale help


gflyer
02-09-2010, 06:04 AM
Hi.
I am selling a racquet on this forum.
I have a potential buyer but he is not in the US. He is in Mexico.
He sounds an honest guy and I think he has a couple of good references.
But I have never sold a racquet internationally so I have some concerns.
What do you guys suggest?
What can I do to protect myself (and the buyer) and avoid problems?
Using paypal and insuring the shipment is gonna cover all the possible (bad) scenarios?
Shall I just avoid to sell internationally?
thank you in advance.
cheers,
g

Kot_Bigemot
02-09-2010, 06:49 AM
Hi.
I am selling a racquet on this forum.
I have a potential buyer but he is not in the US. He is in Mexico.
He sounds an honest guy and I think he has a couple of good references.
But I have never sold a racquet internationally so I have some concerns.
What do you guys suggest?
What can I do to protect myself (and the buyer) and avoid problems?
Using paypal and insuring the shipment is gonna cover all the possible (bad) scenarios?
Shall I just avoid to sell internationally?
thank you in advance.
cheers,
g
Gflyer,
I would start by doing some research. Do some reading man. Here:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=303732

gflyer
02-09-2010, 07:15 AM
I have already read that thread before posting.
But it doesn't say much about international deals, it just suggests to avoid them.
Here I am asking if as seller I can take some extra measures to be safe or I should just avoid the sale.

Kot_Bigemot
02-09-2010, 07:22 AM
I have already read that thread before posting.
But it doesn't say much about international deals, besides to avoid them.
Here I am asking if as seller I can take some extra measures to be safe or I should just avoid the sale.
The reason people are trying to avoid international deals, is because you do not have control over shipping and customs. It could take months to deliver.
As far as extra precautions...same as always:
1. Make sure buyer has references on TT.
2. Make sure buyer has verified paypal account.
3. Make sure you ship to confirmed and verified address ONLY.
4. Make sure you send the package with tracking number, signature conformation is available and full insurance, regardless of how much it cost. It is worth it.
5. And last - if sounds too good of a deal or too good to be true, it most likely is. So, do not get greedy, better not to sell than losse racquet and not get paid.
Hope it helps.
P.S. One more thing -make sure this transaction is eligible for seller's protection by PayPal.

gflyer
02-09-2010, 08:03 AM
The reason people are trying to avoid international deals, is because you do not have control over shipping and customs.It could take months to deliver.
As far as extra precautions...same as always:
1. Make sure buyer has references on TT.
2. Make sure buyer has verified paypal account.
3. Make sure you ship to confirmed and verified address ONLY.
4. Make sure you send the package with tracking number, signature conformation is available and full insurance, regardless of how much it cost. It is worth it.
5. And last - if sounds too good of a deal or too good to be true, it most likely is. So, do not get greedy, better not to sell than losse racquet and not get paid.
Hope it helps.
P.S. One more thing -make sure this transaction is eligible for seller's protection by PayPal.

That was my major concern. And it doesn't look there is really a solution for that.
Thank you for your reply. It does help.
I will get some info about seller protection.

Fearsome Forehand
02-09-2010, 09:28 AM
I would suggest waiting for a buyer in the States. It is not worth the hassle or the risk. I have done a few such deals and one has to sweat out the USPS delivery conformation hoping it gets updated and eventually indicates delivery. I had one deal to Canada for several rackets that never indicated delivery but fortunately the buyer was honest, acknowledged receipt and did not contest the PP charge. Otherwise, I would have eaten several hundred dollars. USPS International's insurance is based on parcel weight not value so even though I had insurance in theory, the insurance was short a few hundred dollars versus the rackets' actual value.

If the buyer is willing to pay for a better shipping company with a real time tracking system and real insurance like Fed Ex, my opinion might change somewhat. However, Fed Ex is usually around three times more expensive than USPS International so shipping to Mexico is probably around $75, maybe more.

Paypal's "protection" is arbitrary at best. I know in the past, PP's seller protection only applied to the US, the UK, and Canada. Perhaps that has changed? In the event of a PP chargeback or reversal, the shipper must prove delivery via online tracking records; if not, game over.

samster
02-09-2010, 09:33 AM
Selling internationally is generally a hassle more than anything else, for reasons mentioned above. I would avoid unless absolutely necessary.

Azzurri
02-09-2010, 09:42 AM
I have already read that thread before posting.
But it doesn't say much about international deals, it just suggests to avoid them.
Here I am asking if as seller I can take some extra measures to be safe or I should just avoid the sale.

don't do it gflyer. its not worth it. maybe he is the best most reliable buyer in Mexico, but let him buy his stuff there. Have patience and sell it to someone living on the boards. you have no idea how many bad transactions happen simply because they are International. There is little suggestion for Inter orders simply because we avoid them. No need for any other tip..AVOID them.

gflyer
02-09-2010, 09:50 AM
I would suggest waiting for a buyer in the States. It is not worth the hassle or the risk. I have done a few such deals and one has to sweat out the USPS delivery conformation hoping it gets updated and eventually indicates delivery. I had one deal to Canada for several rackets that never indicated delivery but fortunately the buyer was honest and did not contest the PP charge. Otherwise, I would have eaten several hundred dollars. USPS International's insurance is based on parcel weight not value so even though I had insurance in theory, the insurance was short a few hundred dollars versus the rackets' actual value

If the buyer is willing to pay for a real shipping company with a real time tracking system and real insurance like Fed Ex, my opinion might change somewhat. However, Fed Ex is usually two to three times more expensive than USPS International so shipping to Mexico is probably around $75, maybe more.

Paypal's "protection" is arbitrary at best. I know in the past, PP's seller protection only applied to the US, the UK, and Canada. Perhaps that has changed? In the event of a PP chargeback or reversal, the shipper must prove delivery via online tracking records or game over.

Selling internationally is generally a hassle more than anything else, for reasons mentioned above. I would avoid unless absolutely necessary.

don't do it gflyer. its not worth it. maybe he is the best most reliable buyer in Mexico, but let him buy his stuff there. Have patience and sell it to someone living on the boards. you have no idea how many bad transactions happen simply because they are International. There is little suggestion for Inter orders simply because we avoid them. No need for any other tip..AVOID them.
I was already thinking about NOT making the sale but I didn't know if it was just me being paranoid.
Now that I got your inputs I know that my concerns were legitimate.
I agree with Azzurri. Even if it is the best buyer in Mexico, what if the customs keep the package for a month?

You guys have been very helpful...as usual.
Thanks!

Richie Rich
02-09-2010, 10:20 AM
i can't tell you the number of times i have had sellers refuse to sell to me just because I'm in Canada. Even when I offer to pay extra shipping. Each situation is unique so don't be so fast to paint all international buyers/sellers with the same brush.

now that i'm off my soapbox, i don't think i'd be comfortable shipping to someone in Mexico unless they had many references on these boards.

SteveI
02-09-2010, 10:55 AM
I have done only one deal to Canada and it did not go well. I had a mint condition POG O/S and made a deal to ship to Canada. The shipping was quite high but the buyer and I sort of split some the expenses. I followed what I thought was the correct shipping procedures, boxed it up and set it out. About 10 days later the box comes back to the states and I have to pick it up... postage cancelled. I am still unsure what happened.. so I investigate... fix (I think) what I did wrong and have to re-send and eat the cost. Since I felt somehow I had made a mistake, I did not ask the buyer to help with the new shipping costs.. which BTW.. were higher this time when I shipped. I guess if I knew what I was doing..I would have been fine. The bottom line is I lost my shirt on that deal...

On the other hand..I have purchased frames and string from Canada.. and got them with no problem. These were auction items with experienced sellers and of course they knew how to ship..:-).

I did ship a frame to the land of OZ... it got there in 4 days and the shipping cost was low compared to what it cost to ship to Canada.

Live and Learn.. I am not shipping international again..anytime soon.

GS
02-09-2010, 11:04 AM
I sent a racquet to Slovenia last year. After all the hassles (customs forms, more money, etc.), I decided not to sell outside of the 48 states anymore.

gflyer
02-09-2010, 11:13 AM
It looks like it's pretty much unanimous

Azzurri
02-09-2010, 12:44 PM
I have done only one deal to Canada and it did not go well. I had a mint condition POG O/S and made a deal to ship to Canada. The shipping was quite high but the buyer and I sort of split some the expenses. I followed what I thought was the correct shipping procedures, boxed it up and set it out. About 10 days later the box comes back to the states and I have to pick it up... postage cancelled. I am still unsure what happened.. so I investigate... fix (I think) what I did wrong and have to re-send and eat the cost. Since I felt somehow I had made a mistake, I did not ask the buyer to help with the new shipping costs.. which BTW.. were higher this time when I shipped. I guess if I knew what I was doing..I would have been fine. The bottom line is I lost my shirt on that deal...

On the other hand..I have purchased frames and string from Canada.. and got them with no problem. These were auction items with experienced sellers and of course they knew how to ship..:-).

I did ship a frame to the land of OZ... it got there in 4 days and the shipping cost was low compared to what it cost to ship to Canada.

Live and Learn.. I am not shipping international again..anytime soon.

you are not kidding. the shipping fees for Canada are ridiculous. My dad will send me a money order for the kids on Xmas and he sends it with tracking and what not...$23 canadian..NO LIE. I was sticker shocked..how can it cost $23 (yes..even Canadian which is basically close to the American dollar) to send an envelope.

Richie Rich
02-09-2010, 01:12 PM
you are not kidding. the shipping fees for Canada are ridiculous. My dad will send me a money order for the kids on Xmas and he sends it with tracking and what not...$23 canadian..NO LIE. I was sticker shocked..how can it cost $23 (yes..even Canadian which is basically close to the American dollar) to send an envelope.

to ship a racquet to california costs me $20 CAD. this includes insurance and delivery conf.

maybe he sent it courier?

betovanbuuren
02-09-2010, 04:18 PM
c'mon people don't be so dramatic, i've done many sales and purchases from usa to mexico and mexico to usa and always is ok with no problem, just use tracking number and will be fine. btw i'm the guy who gflyer is talking about and have only positive references here and on the bay, so i think you all have bad luck. But if you know how to ship internationally, shouldn't be any problem at all

SteveI
02-09-2010, 04:30 PM
c'mon people don't be so dramatic, i've done many sales and purchases from usa to mexico and mexico to usa and always is ok with no problem, just use tracking number and will be fine. btw i'm the guy who gflyer is talking about and have only positive references here and on the bay, so i think you all have bad luck. But if you know how to ship internationally, shouldn't be any problem at all

Not really being dramatic.. just giving you my experiences. I did say that I did not really know what the heck I was doing.. and paid the price. There are many options when working with USPS.. but it was clear I either did not ask the right questions... or got the wrong answers or both.. again..I paid the price. Easier just to sell to someone in the USA. Just not worth the hassle to me. BTW.. this I think is true, after your package crosses into Canada, USPS can't really track very well.. Is that true?

SteveI
02-09-2010, 04:31 PM
I would suggest waiting for a buyer in the States. It is not worth the hassle or the risk. I have done a few such deals and one has to sweat out the USPS delivery conformation hoping it gets updated and eventually indicates delivery. I had one deal to Canada for several rackets that never indicated delivery but fortunately the buyer was honest, acknowledged receipt and did not contest the PP charge. Otherwise, I would have eaten several hundred dollars. USPS International's insurance is based on parcel weight not value so even though I had insurance in theory, the insurance was short a few hundred dollars versus the rackets' actual value.

If the buyer is willing to pay for a better shipping company with a real time tracking system and real insurance like Fed Ex, my opinion might change somewhat. However, Fed Ex is usually around three times more expensive than USPS International so shipping to Mexico is probably around $75, maybe more.

Paypal's "protection" is arbitrary at best. I know in the past, PP's seller protection only applied to the US, the UK, and Canada. Perhaps that has changed? In the event of a PP chargeback or reversal, the shipper must prove delivery via online tracking records; if not, game over.

Yes... game over with PP

Richie Rich
02-09-2010, 05:05 PM
NBTW.. this I think is true, after your package crosses into Canada, USPS can't really track very well.. Is that true?

not true at all. anything shipped between Canada and USA is no problem to track. you might not get up to the minute data (like UPS) but you will get delivery confirmation.

Azzurri
02-09-2010, 05:21 PM
to ship a racquet to california costs me $20 CAD. this includes insurance and delivery conf.

maybe he sent it courier?

not sure. I will ask him. but it was in my mailbox. I never signed anything.

Azzurri
02-09-2010, 05:25 PM
c'mon people don't be so dramatic, i've done many sales and purchases from usa to mexico and mexico to usa and always is ok with no problem, just use tracking number and will be fine. btw i'm the guy who gflyer is talking about and have only positive references here and on the bay, so i think you all have bad luck. But if you know how to ship internationally, shouldn't be any problem at all

sorry, but we are giving gflyer advice based on many instances of International transactions. maybe it seemed as if we doubt you personally (we don't..we don't know you), but its not worth it. There are too many opportunities to sell in the 48 States that there is no need for International. It can be an issue and it has.

Richie Rich
02-09-2010, 06:08 PM
another option, if shipping outside US/Canada would be cash only. that removes the risk from the seller completely. just have buyer send it registered mail so you sign for it (and they have proof you got it)

betovanbuuren
02-09-2010, 07:12 PM
Not really being dramatic.. just giving you my experiences. I did say that I did not really know what the heck I was doing.. and paid the price. There are many options when working with USPS.. but it was clear I either did not ask the right questions... or got the wrong answers or both.. again..I paid the price. Easier just to sell to someone in the USA. Just not worth the hassle to me. BTW.. this I think is true, after your package crosses into Canada, USPS can't really track very well.. Is that true?

Well i think when a package comes into another country usps can't keeping tracking step to step, but that's when your job starts, you should go to your local post web page and with the tracking number do the same as you normally did in usps.com, so for me track it in my local service postal web page is not a trouble.
You just do the same in other web site period

gflyer
02-09-2010, 08:48 PM
c'mon people don't be so dramatic, i've done many sales and purchases from usa to mexico and mexico to usa and always is ok with no problem, just use tracking number and will be fine. btw i'm the guy who gflyer is talking about and have only positive references here and on the bay, so i think you all have bad luck. But if you know how to ship internationally, shouldn't be any problem at all

beto I really don't have anything against you. Actually you sound a genuine guy. And I am not saying that something has to go wrong.
But if it does I am the one who is gonna have troubles.
I am already losing a lot of money on a racquet that is practically new.
I really cannot afford to take the risk to lose even more.
I do prefer to wait a little longer but sell in the US.
Btw international shipping is problematic more often than u think.
Last Xmas I sent a box with presents for my parents in Italy.
Shipped beginning of December via priority delivered January 16.
Usps gave me eta 7-9 days!
We found out later that the package was stuck in customs.
Fortunately my dad and my mom didn't file a complain with paypal...:-)
just kidding.

skraggle
02-10-2010, 01:48 AM
I've shipped to Germany, Argentina, Portugal, the UK, and Canada, and never had any issues. But with the figuring out the shipping and filling out customs forms, there's no question that it's more of a hassle.

SteveI
02-10-2010, 02:52 AM
sorry, but we are giving gflyer advice based on many instances of International transactions. maybe it seemed as if we doubt you personally (we don't..we don't know you), but its not worth it. There are too many opportunities to sell in the 48 States that there is no need for International. It can be an issue and it has.

I guess the bottom line.. too many forms. PayPal does or does not protect you? Tracking maybe? Higher shipping costs in most cases. Also in my case "there are too many opportunities to sell in the 48 States that there is no need for International". Just not the worth the time, effort and possible hassle for me. If I had a real strong relationship with someone "international".. maybe that is another matter.

beno40
02-10-2010, 03:24 AM
Nothing wrong with International sales whatsoever, paypal is not only used worldwide on **** but also on most internet sites around the world as away of making instant and safe payments.

There are certain guide line that paypal set out to make the transaction safe and if you follow them you won't have a problem.

I have been buying and selling on **** for 8 years with over 1,700 transactions using only paypal to pay and receive payments, most of those transactions in many countries and not had any problems.

I don't understand why so many of you are so dismissive of overseas transactions when it is so safe and simple.

Thanks Ben

SteveI
02-10-2010, 06:18 AM
Nothing wrong with International sales whatsoever, paypal is not only used worldwide on **** but also on most internet sites around the world as away of making instant and safe payments.

There are certain guide line that paypal set out to make the transaction safe and if you follow them you won't have a problem.

I have been buying and selling on **** for 8 years with over 1,700 transactions using only paypal to pay and receive payments, most of those transactions in many countries and not had any problems.

I don't understand why so many of you are so dismissive of overseas transactions when it is so safe and simple.

Thanks Ben

This one was a piece of cake...

seems clear that some of us have a problem and we stated our concerns. Easier for most of us to advoid those deals. You can do anything you feel works for you. Most of us are not looking to make money or run a business selling/buying and trading tennis gear. We choose avoid to hassles since we are trying to enjoy tennis not be stressed over it. It is clear it is not so safe and simple.

This one was really safe and simple....

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=303154&highlight=mitch

beno40
02-10-2010, 06:27 AM
This one was a piece of cake...

seems clear that some of us have a problem and we stated our concerns. Easier for most of us to advoid those deals. You can do anything you feel works for you. Most of us are not looking to make money or run a business selling/buying and trading tennis gear. We choose avoid to hassles since we are trying to enjoy tennis not be stressed over it. It is clear it is not so safe and simple.

This one was really safe and simple....

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ighlight=mitch

Link does'nt work!

SteveI
02-10-2010, 06:41 AM
Link does'nt work!

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=303154&highlight=mitch

rough transaction with tennispro19 Works for me...

Kot_Bigemot
02-10-2010, 06:42 AM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=303154&highlight=mitch

Works for me...
Link does not work.

betovanbuuren
02-10-2010, 06:53 AM
beto I really don't have anything against you. Actually you sound a genuine guy. And I am not saying that something has to go wrong.
But if it does I am the one who is gonna have troubles.
I am already losing a lot of money on a racquet that is practically new.
I really cannot afford to take the risk to lose even more.
I do prefer to wait a little longer but sell in the US.
Btw international shipping is problematic more often than u think.
Last Xmas I sent a box with presents for my parents in Italy.
Shipped beginning of December via priority delivered January 16.
Usps gave me eta 7-9 days!
We found out later that the package was stuck in customs.
Fortunately my dad and my mom didn't file a complain with paypal...:-)
just kidding.

hahaha i know is nothing wrong with me bro, just want to know that there isn't only "bad things" on international shipping

Nothing wrong with International sales whatsoever, paypal is not only used worldwide on **** but also on most internet sites around the world as away of making instant and safe payments.

There are certain guide line that paypal set out to make the transaction safe and if you follow them you won't have a problem.

I have been buying and selling on **** for 8 years with over 1,700 transactions using only paypal to pay and receive payments, most of those transactions in many countries and not had any problems.

I don't understand why so many of you are so dismissive of overseas transactions when it is so safe and simple.

Thanks Ben


Indeed +1

Azzurri
02-10-2010, 07:06 AM
beto I really don't have anything against you. Actually you sound a genuine guy. And I am not saying that something has to go wrong.
But if it does I am the one who is gonna have troubles.
I am already losing a lot of money on a racquet that is practically new.
I really cannot afford to take the risk to lose even more.
I do prefer to wait a little longer but sell in the US.
Btw international shipping is problematic more often than u think.
Last Xmas I sent a box with presents for my parents in Italy.
Shipped beginning of December via priority delivered January 16.
Usps gave me eta 7-9 days!
We found out later that the package was stuck in customs.
Fortunately my dad and my mom didn't file a complain with paypal...:-)
just kidding.

my mom lives in Cosenza..where are your parents?

gflyer
02-10-2010, 07:15 AM
my mom lives in Cosenza..where are your parents?

My parents live in Pescara(Abruzzo) now but they both are from Calabria.
Actually my mom grew up not far from cosenza.
I think the name of the town where she grew up is Paola.
My dad grew up in Reggio Calabria
I am going for Easter. :-)
hopefully I'll play some clay. I love red clay.
do u go often?

Sorry for the OT

Azzurri
02-10-2010, 07:56 AM
My parents live in Pescara(Abruzzo) now but they both are from Calabria.
Actually my mom grew up not far from cosenza.
I think the name of the town where she grew up is Paola.
My dad grew up in Reggio Calabria
I am going for Easter. :-)
hopefully I'll play some clay. I love red clay.
do u go often?

Sorry for the OT

both of my parents are from Calabria as well. My mother born/rasied in Cosenza. My father just outside of Cosenza.

I am supposed to visit 2011. I have not been to Italy in years..sadly.

gflyer
02-10-2010, 11:05 AM
both of my parents are from Calabria as well. My mother born/rasied in Cosenza. My father just outside of Cosenza.

I am supposed to visit 2011. I have not been to Italy in years..sadly.

Great. I bet you're gonna have a lot of fun.

neverstopplaying
02-12-2010, 04:08 AM
I've done 40+ trades buys and sales with Americans and Europeans and have never had a problem. Living in Canada. It costs about $20 to ship between the 2 countries, about $5 - $10 more than shipping within our respective countries. Shipping takes a few extra days. Depending upon the deal and ease to find a buyer/seller, it may well be worth both party's time.

My number one rule is look for references - then know how to fill in a very simple customs form. Any high school student should be able to do this.

Don't buy from someone without references. Sell through Paypal. If trading with someone without references, don't ship until you receive your trade and then ship - and post a reference to the new tt'er.

I would be more cautious dealing in countries that have strict import tarifs as packages can be held up for long periods of time - and recourse is lmited. I had a case like this with brazil once (non-tennis).

gonzalocatalino
02-13-2010, 11:53 AM
im from Argentina and ive done lots of deals here in the forum. I never had any trouble buying or selling.
Always received my racquets from the US using USPS priority, EMS and even first class mail once (wich i assume was a mistake from the post office guy because first class dont allow large racquet boxes).
There is not big deal selling internationally (just double chec references and adress).
As most customs arent as easy to pass like the US customs, you can help the buyer writing a lower value on the customs form and describing the item as USED stuff.

number.432
02-13-2010, 06:43 PM
I've done 40+ trades buys and sales with Americans and Europeans and have never had a problem. Living in Canada. It costs about $20 to ship between the 2 countries, about $5 - $10 more than shipping within our respective countries. Shipping takes a few extra days. Depending upon the deal and ease to find a buyer/seller, it may well be worth both party's time.

My number one rule is look for references - then know how to fill in a very simple customs form. Any high school student should be able to do this.

Don't buy from someone without references. Sell through Paypal. If trading with someone without references, don't ship until you receive your trade and then ship - and post a reference to the new tt'er.

I would be more cautious dealing in countries that have strict import tarifs as packages can be held up for long periods of time - and recourse is lmited. I had a case like this with brazil once (non-tennis).

im from Argentina and ive done lots of deals here in the forum. I never had any trouble buying or selling.
Always received my racquets from the US using USPS priority, EMS and even first class mail once (wich i assume was a mistake from the post office guy because first class dont allow large racquet boxes).
There is not big deal selling internationally (just double chec references and adress).
As most customs arent as easy to pass like the US customs, you can help the buyer writing a lower value on the customs form and describing the item as USED stuff.


Just thought I could weigh in a bit here. I totally agree with these 2 posters which I have dealt with before. One being in Argentina while I'm in Canada.

If your buyer has solid references I don't see any issues really of not selling to him especially if he would cover extra shipping costs which presumably includes tracking and delivery confirmation.

I don't see how filling in a relatively simple custom forms would prevent anyone from completing international sales.

beno40
02-14-2010, 02:35 AM
Absolutely brilliant to get some positive feeddback on international sales. As I said earlier in this thread if you check all the nessasary checks ie. references if possible, Paypal confirmed address, sending item with tracking number, fully insured with customs form, if all this is done you'll have no problems!

Richie Rich
02-14-2010, 04:08 AM
I don't see how filling in a relatively simple custom forms would prevent anyone from completing international sales.

it takes all of 30 seconds - but that may be challenging for some people here :mrgreen: