No patience with junkballers

[wfudeac]

They really get on my nerves...I played one Saturday who had absolutely no depth on his shots. Every shot was high bouncing, not even making it to the service line. Also, when he did hit a groundstroke, it was always some funky slice forehand/backhand...I know I shouldn't have, but I really just lost my patience playing and was ready to go home before the match was even finished!

Can't believe I lost to him! I'd much rather prefer baseline rallies to that crap!

[aj_m2009]

Would you mind telling me why it's crap?

[Thanatos]

They really get on my nerves...I played one Saturday who had absolutely no depth on his shots. Every shot was high bouncing, not even making it to the service line. Also, when he did hit a groundstroke, it was always some funky slice forehand/backhand...I know I shouldn't have, but I really just lost my patience playing and was ready to go home before the match was even finished!

Can't believe I lost to him! I'd much rather prefer baseline rallies to that crap!

Sounds like your game is not versatile enough to adapt to your changing opponnents. You need to have an all court game (net and baseline). Most dinker's shots are funky and short of the serivce line. I usually hit an approach shot to their BH, rush the net, and anticpate the lob, since most of them can't pass worth **it.

[wfudeac]

Good advice...Part of it comes from me being a sore loser...After hiting hard with a friend of mine that same day, I just hated to play that kind of tennis. I usually give credit to my opponents, but I feel like that's one time where I really did just beat myself.

[drummerboy]

I know what you mean. It is really hard to play guys like that sometimes. I myself also enjoy a good hitting tennis match and not pushing, but you gotta adapt to the situation to grow as a player and play anyone who wants to play. You has the good chance to practice an agressive play against the guy like that. If I get a loopy ball to the service line I know exactly what I am going to do. I am gonna lean into the ball all the way and beat the s**t out of her. You think you are not getting anything from a play like that but every match is a new lesson.

[Kaptain Karl]

I love to junk ball people who only want to BANG. They go nuts and pretty much GIVE the match to me. (I'll play whatever style the other guy appears to HATE.)

- KK

[scez]

At least the guy didnt have depth. So you could keep the rallies really short. If he gives you a short ball you should be able to finish him in 1-2 hits.

[Jet Rink]

This is a simultaneously funny and great post. A lot of honesty here too, no doubt. ;)

I'd add this: I play some very hard hitters weekly and I also play some old timers that hit all that soft, funky, spinning stuff.

It's tough as hell to go from one to the other - but it's a supreme challenge for my, or anyone else's, game. After a few months of this regimine (spell check!), I've forced myself to build points better, think strategically (instead of banging) and play with a much higher degree of patience. This combination is a great tool for improving footwork - because if you don't move your feet with the soft stuff, you're dead. It's an invitation to overhit.

I also play this cat periodically that is a phenomenal dinker, never gets rushed and gets everything back. He is indeed the biggest challenge I face on a regular basis - and I barely got him, for the first time ever, last week.

Don't forsake the dinkers - they will teach you a side of tennis you may not see otherwise.

And yes - it s*cks losing to them :p .

Jet

[Cruzer]

The Kaptain makes an excellent point. Give the other guy what he doesn't like. The situation I see the most is they like pace, so then I hit em junk. It is harder to put pace on a ball that has none than it is a ball that has lots of it. I have used this strategy effectively and I have had it done to me as well. Hitting the ball as hard as possible is more fun than pushing it back but sometimes you have to radically change your game when you run into a good pusher and also maintain your mental composure.

[Grimjack]

Just from personal experience, facing dinkers doesn't necessitate developing an all-court game.

I have about the furthest thing from a well-developed all court game, but I love facing these yahoos. The thing about paceless balls is they're MUCH lower risk when it comes to changing direction in a rally. It's pace and shot-heaviness that makes going down-the-line off a well-struck crosscourt ball such a high risk play. But without that pace/depth, you can move the ball around wherever you want, with practically no risk -- as long as you don't trick yourself into going for winners all the time.

There's no kind of player in the world it's easier to run corner to corner. They don't have the firepower to run you ragged -- even their away-from-you shots are paceless enough you can jog them down rather than running them down. But you can make them sprint for their lives. Simply low-risk corner to corner play till they run out of gas.

Keep these guys running, and scores against this kind of player are always like 7-5, 6-1, as they might as well be on the back end of a 100-mile ultra marathon by the time the end of the second set rolls around. Even if they frustrate you enough in the first set to take it, the score will end up like 5-7, 6-1, 6-0. If you have decent control over reliably deep topspin groundies, these guys are meat for the beast.

You just have to be satisfied with a different kind of dismantling of your opponent. You can't blow them off the court like you could with a well-developed net game and overhead. But there's something primally satisfying about running another human being to death while you barely break a sweat.

[Jet Rink]

Just from personal experience, facing dinkers doesn't necessitate developing an all-court game.

I have about the furthest thing from a well-developed all court game, but I love facing these yahoos. The thing about paceless balls is they're MUCH lower risk when it comes to changing direction in a rally. It's pace and shot-heaviness that makes going down-the-line off a well-struck crosscourt ball such a high risk play. But without that pace/depth, you can move the ball around wherever you want, with practically no risk -- as long as you don't trick yourself into going for winners all the time.

There's no kind of player in the world it's easier to run corner to corner. They don't have the firepower to run you ragged -- even their away-from-you shots are paceless enough you can jog them down rather than running them down. But you can make them sprint for their lives. Simply low-risk corner to corner play till they run out of gas.

Keep these guys running, and scores against this kind of player are always like 7-5, 6-1, as they might as well be on the back end of a 100-mile ultra marathon by the time the end of the second set rolls around. Even if they frustrate you enough in the first set to take it, the score will end up like 5-7, 6-1, 6-0. If you have decent control over reliably deep topspin groundies, these guys are meat for the beast.

You just have to be satisfied with a different kind of dismantling of your opponent. You can't blow them off the court like you could with a well-developed net game and overhead. But there's something primally satisfying about running another human being to death while you barely break a sweat.

All hail the great post by GrimJack. I really enjoyed reading this.

Jet :D

[Jon Hampton]

Seems like every other day I'm hearing something about a junkballer, or a moonballer, or a pusher. Just accept the fact that the match is going to be very long and keeping your unforced errors down is how you are going to win the match! Whatever strategy you come up with that keeps your unforced errors down is great...whether you can run them side to side or come up to net or hit drop shots to bring them up to net, do it! Just don't play their game style!

On a side note, I believe that if you put a professional tennis player (Federer, Agassi, anybody) against a local 3.0 junkballer, the professional would win the majority of the points by forcing errors on his opponent by keeping his own unforced errors down! Sure, we'd all like to think that on every junk ball, the professional would just slap shot the ball and hit winners left and right, but in reality, this is probably not true.

[kevhen]

I know I salivate when I see a short high bouncing ball. Why would anyone complain about such a thing?

[kevhen]

The pros would hit winners. I know the 5.0 guys I have played could hit winners off any of my junkballs and made me look bad since I couldn't run those down since the 5.0s can place them near the lines with good pace and you can't read which direction they are going.

[troytennisbum]

Jon Hampton said:

On a side note, I believe that if you put a professional tennis player (Federer, Agassi, anybody) against a local 3.0 junkballer, the professional would win the majority of the points by forcing errors on his opponent by keeping his own unforced errors down! Sure, we'd all like to think that on every junk ball, the professional would just slap shot the ball and hit winners left and right, but in reality, this is probably not true.

I completely disagree with you.

If a local 3.0 junkballer hits a junkball against a guy like Federer
or Agassi, the point WILL be over after the next hit..and the point
ain't going to the junkballer, that's for sure.

Actually, come to think of it, if a local 3.0 player hits ANY type of shot against a guy like Federer or Agassi the result will most probably be the
same.

[tstar7]

I completely disagree with you.

If a local 3.0 junkballer hits a junkball against a guy like Federer
or Agassi, the point WILL be over after the next hit..and the point
ain't going to the junkballer, that's for sure.

Actually, come to think of it, if a local 3.0 player hits ANY type of shot against a guy like Federer or Agassi the result will most probably be the
same.
Yes...I agree that the pro will win the point no matter what shot is hit back. However, I also agree with Jon Hampton that the pro would focus on keeping the unforced errors down instead of blasting every shot for a winner.

[kevhen]

They would place the ball for a winner against the 3.0 without having to blast it, unless they felt like blasting it.

[tstar7]

Yea...against a 3.0 definitely. However, maybe against a more difficult player maybe not.

[ferrari_827]

Please, this is nonsense. Against a 3.0 player, I can hit winners at will from just about anywhere. Federer or Agassi could do it with their eyes closed.

[tstar7]

Well...I am new to the sport. So i guess I don't know much. LOL. Stupid high school varsity guy here.

[kevhen]

ok, cool. I will be in Savannah for 3 days a month from now. What are the best places to go in the area and places to play tennis in Savannah, Hilton Head, and Charleston?

[Jon Hampton]

Jon Hampton said:


I completely disagree with you.

If a local 3.0 junkballer hits a junkball against a guy like Federer
or Agassi, the point WILL be over after the next hit..and the point
ain't going to the junkballer, that's for sure.

Actually, come to think of it, if a local 3.0 player hits ANY type of shot against a guy like Federer or Agassi the result will most probably be the
same.

Well, this is what this forum is about---people agreeing to disagree :)

I'm sticking to what I said about professionals keeping their unforced errors down and winning a match that way. Just take a look at Serena Williams when she plays against people that don't hit with pace...almost always, she has a huge amount of unforced errors and it goes to three sets. And although a professional pusher has more pace than a recreational pusher, the idea is the same: it is very difficult, no matter what level you are, to put pace on a ball that has none.

[Kaptain Karl]

I'm sticking to what I said about professionals keeping their unforced errors down and winning a match that way.Ridiculous! They simply blow the pusher off the court ... in about 20 minutes.

Just take a look at Serena Williams when she plays against people that don't hit with pace...almost always, she has a huge amount of unforced errors and it goes to three sets.Not so (the "almost always" 3 sets part). And besides, Serena has a lot of UEs against anyone.

And although a professional pusher has more pace than a recreational pusher, the idea is the same: it is very difficult, no matter what level you are, to put pace on a ball that has none.In disagreeing here, I make a distinction between a "pusher" and a "junk baller." Brad Gilbert was a junk baller in the Pros. The other men *hated* playing him. But I don't think a single "pusher" even exists in the Pros.

- KK

[Jon Hampton]

But I don't think a single "pusher" even exists in the Pros.

You should try and watch pros not in the top 200. They're the scrappiest bunch you've ever seen.

[scez]

I really want to see a video of Brad Gilbert playing, does anyone have with a video or just a short clip?

[Jet Rink]

I really want to see a video of Brad Gilbert playing, does anyone have with a video or just a short clip?

Man, Gilbert was UUUUGGGGly. ;) The guy just played mind games with everyone. He was a journeyman in the truest sense. But, then again, it's those guys that make the best coaches - and Major League managers.

JEt

[goober]

They really get on my nerves...I played one Saturday who had absolutely no depth on his shots. Every shot was high bouncing, not even making it to the service line. Also, when he did hit a groundstroke, it was always some funky slice forehand/backhand...I know I shouldn't have, but I really just lost my patience playing and was ready to go home before the match was even finished!

Can't believe I lost to him! I'd much rather prefer baseline rallies to that crap!

Someone who consistently hit shortballs whether they are junk or not should be an easy win once you are 4.0 or above level. Just stand well inside the baseline and tee off his shortballs with angle and pace.

Deep junkballs are much harder to deal with.

[montx]

Are you western FH Kevhen BTW?

[Ken]

As for the pro discussion - I don't think the pros would even give a chance for the junkballer to even...hit a junkball. The serves would blow them off the court. The service returns, too -even a junkballer can't hit a serve a pro hasn't seen before. And especially with no pace, and the pro's (Federer's, especially) footwork and all the conditioning -I have trouble finding that any shot would be returned in the first place.

And Gilbert -he definitely didn't have anything many people would envy, except for his mind. He made everyone play their absolute worst tennis. While he didn't have the strokes (he proved you didn't NEED them), he competed with and beat the best people on tour.

[mucat]

They really get on my nerves...I played one Saturday who had absolutely no depth on his shots. Every shot was high bouncing, not even making it to the service line. Also, when he did hit a groundstroke, it was always some funky slice forehand/backhand...I know I shouldn't have, but I really just lost my patience playing and was ready to go home before the match was even finished!

Can't believe I lost to him! I'd much rather prefer baseline rallies to that crap!

You need to know how to hit winners or near-winners out of short high balls, also volleying off weak short balls. Otherwise, you have no weapon against a good defensive player.

As for the Pros, well, even a good 4.0 and definitely a 5.0 can bang a 3.0 off the court easily, been there, done that (I was the 3.0 though :(). So, a Pro would porbably finish off every single point with only one hit against a 3.0.

[tstar7]

There are lots of places to play. But, a lot of courts are run down. I don't live in Hilton Head so I don't know of any places to play up there. I'm guessing though that most of the courts are in gated communities. In Savannah, the two best public courts are at Bacon Park and Daffin Park. There are better ones at The Landings but that is a gated community and you either have to know somebody who lives there or live there to play.

[scez]

Thats why I want to see a clip of him playing, nice to see a different type of player.

[Rickson]

I play against a junkballer and he used to give me a tough match. I beat him with ease now and have even bageled him 3 sets in a row. The balls he sent me would come up short and low so a topspin drive was not a good return for me. I started hitting sharp angles to the deuce side and when he caught on, I hit to the open court on the ad side because he wound up overplaying the deuce. Go with sharp angles until they overcommit to that side and you'll be the one frustrating the junkballers.

[kevhen]

Eastern grip forehand. I'll be in Savannah over Memorial Day weekend and on that Tuesday too if you would want to play a few sets or know any 4.0-4.5 players who like to play. I have never played on clay so would like to try that if there are any public clay courts.