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TW Staff
03-25-2010, 05:39 PM
Over the last couple of days I've been experimenting with low tensions. Pro player Volandri is around 26lbs, so I started at 30lbs yesterday and then dropped to 20lbs today.

Here's my blog on my hitting experiences if you'd like to check it out:

http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1154

Chris, TW

Pwned
03-25-2010, 05:56 PM
Very interesting. I just tried 48 and thought it felt great. I may try SpinX at ~41-42 next.

Larrysümmers
03-25-2010, 06:00 PM
Over the last couple of days I've been experimenting with low tensions. Pro player Volandri is around 26lbs, so I started at 30lbs yesterday and then dropped to 20lbs today.

Here's my blog on my hitting experiences if you'd like to check it out:

http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1154

Chris, TW


I'm too nervous to drop any lower

Kick Serve 14
03-25-2010, 06:01 PM
Wow... that is really low, I should try that the next time I string mine up...

Larrysümmers
03-25-2010, 06:03 PM
Wow... that is really low, I should try that the next time I string mine up...

maybe I'll go to 35 before 30 lol. I def wanna try this

Shangri La
03-25-2010, 06:06 PM
The TW Professor is the root of all evil.

That is all.

sandflea
03-25-2010, 06:10 PM
Good stuff Chris, when I read the thread title I was guessing that you had used a kevlar string. It's even more interesting that you didn't.

Nanshiki
03-25-2010, 06:35 PM
I find that there is a sweet spot for string tensions, depending on the racquet.

Too high, and you can't hit flat serves well and you have to swing too fast for consistent groundies; too low and your shots spray around too much, or bounce to deep when you hit volleys, blocks, and slice shots.

Ivan Lendl's Backhand
03-25-2010, 06:58 PM
Interesting!

What about your accuracy and precision play, Chris? Was that affected or were you still as pinpoint with your directional shots?

vincent_tennis
03-26-2010, 12:36 AM
mm interesting..

scotus
03-26-2010, 12:54 AM
Soon you will be able to string your racquet by hand!

Xenakis
03-26-2010, 02:28 AM
A worthy experiment thanks Chris. What about the longevity of a full bed of poly at these much lower tensions?

Gaab
03-26-2010, 02:38 AM
Most interesting, thanks for sharing your experience.

ericsson
03-26-2010, 03:38 AM
Over the last couple of days I've been experimenting with low tensions. Pro player Volandri is around 26lbs, so I started at 30lbs yesterday and then dropped to 20lbs today.

Here's my blog on my hitting experiences if you'd like to check it out:

http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1154

Chris, TW

Nice experiment but all depends on what type of player you are, if you hit with lots of topspin it's a lot easier to go very low then when you hit really flat just above the net. I can play with lower tensions but i have to adjust my game just as i can play with higher tensions, i have to adjust there too. So for me mid tension works out the best.
The lowest i went is 15 kg but 20lbs is extremely low...

Lambsscroll
03-26-2010, 05:12 AM
Soon you will be able to string your racquet by hand!


lol,

I'm going to try 30 pounds today for the hell of it.

pingu
03-26-2010, 05:22 AM
Chris, Thanks for sharing an interesting subject. Please let us know how it goes with you :)

ClubHoUno
03-26-2010, 05:49 AM
I will try VS NAT GUT @ 48 lbs mains and Luxilon Alu Power @ 44 lbs crosses next time on my 2 Völk PB10 Mid - but 20 lbs and 10 lbs is a bit too low, when I use nat GUT in the mains.....

For a full poly, I could see the benefits from it thoug....interesting reading.

jrod
03-26-2010, 06:12 AM
Chris-

What about string movement? Do they move all over the place or do they tend to restore their initial position?

Also, I'd be interested in how this affects the longevity of a co-poly...

-jrod

pingu
03-26-2010, 06:36 AM
...
What about string movement? Do they move all over the place or do they tend to restore their initial position?
...

-jrod

I think Chris mentioned in his blog that string was fine :)

"...Another fact that surprised me was I did not have to adjust the strings at all. As usual for me with a poly, the strings returned to an aligned state after every shot..."

JackB1
03-26-2010, 06:53 AM
I would think you can only do this with a poly or copoly, because of their low resiliency. A multi at 20 would launch rockets.

jrod
03-26-2010, 06:55 AM
I think Chris mentioned in his blog that string was fine :)

"...Another fact that surprised me was I did not have to adjust the strings at all. As usual for me with a poly, the strings returned to an aligned state after every shot..."


You are indeed correct....I should give up on the speed reading...missing way too much.

nickarnold2000
03-26-2010, 07:05 AM
A worthy experiment thanks Chris. What about the longevity of a full bed of poly at these much lower tensions?
My experience is that the lower the poly tension - the longer the longevity of the poly. But I've never tried 30lbs before!

PrinceMoron
03-26-2010, 07:33 AM
Saw the string specs and tensions for players at the Australian Open the other day on the web. Just googled it. Seem to remember Serena Williams was really high. The lowest guys were Davydenko followed closely by Federer - 21/19.5 if I remember.

I played the other day with an old aluminium frame strung in co poly at 40. It was artificial grass, heavy balls shooting through low. The other team thought I was a ringer that had been brought in especially for the match. Pretty unique playing conditions but low tensions worked a treat

goran_ace
03-26-2010, 07:36 AM
Seem to remember Serena Williams was really high. The lowest guys were Davydenko followed closely by Federer - 21/19.5 if I remember.

Keep in mind that Serena (and Venus) plays full gut while just about everyone else uses full poly or poly hybrid.

PrinceMoron
03-26-2010, 07:39 AM
Keep in mind that Serena (and Venus) plays full gut while just about everyone else uses full poly or poly hybrid.

Hear you can get an instant gut restring just by sticking it down the throat of a line judge.

ryushen21
03-26-2010, 08:57 AM
Hmm...this intrigues me. I've been thinking of dropping my tension a little. But I'll take baby steps first. Myabe down the 55lb area.

UnforcedError
03-26-2010, 09:16 AM
Very interesting thread, thanks for sharing the experience. I've been stringing my rackets with full poly at 50, I will try 40 in my next racket. I think I will string it up tonight so I can try it tomorrow.

TW Staff
03-26-2010, 09:35 AM
Haven't had the chance to test how long the strings will last as I'm only on day three today. I don't think I'll have to worry about tension loss, though!

With the 20lbs set up, I didn't feel as I was getting any advantage over the 30lbs set up and there was some adjustment needed on serve. I was living on 2nd serves at 20lbs as I was finding it hard to get my first serve out of the net.

30lbs already feels very soft and even though 20lbs felt softer, I wasn't getting the same bite on slice. Topspin hops really well at both tensions. Flatter strokes have some effortless depth to them which is more controllable at 30lbs compared to 20lbs.

Interestingly, the trampoline affect I was expecting simply wasn't there. At 30lbs, the ball goes into the stringbed, I could feel extreme pocketing, but then the ball just comes out as I would expect from a poly and didn't head into orbit at all.

I was hitting with Gran yesterday and he told me it was like I was playing stealth tennis as he couldn't hear the difference between me cracking the ball, or taking pace off. I managed to flat foot him several times with slice backhand drop shots when he thought I was going to slice deep.

My level of precision was spot on at 30lbs and pretty decent for me at 20lbs -- more so with topspin at 20lbs over slice. With both tensions the amount of feel I had was very high so touch shots, lobs, drop volleys etc were all working really well for me.

Today is a 10lbs day. Yes, I could probably string it up in my lap and just hand pull the string, but I'll do it on the stringer. I will blog this afternoon on how it goes.

Cheers,
Chris

SplitStepper
03-26-2010, 09:45 AM
Glad to see the low tensions are catching on. I have a difficult time getting some students to drop but the ones that fully trust me have had great results. I can't imagine ever going back above 37lb.

Power Player
03-26-2010, 09:48 AM
wow..37lbs! I string at 62..haha. One day I may try it in my spare m-fil for fun and see what happens. I used to string at 50#s and while it was nice for a while, I got sick of using insane topspin to hit hard winners that would stay in.

SplitStepper
03-26-2010, 09:58 AM
wow..37lbs! I string at 62..haha. One day I may try it in my spare m-fil for fun and see what happens. I used to string at 50#s and while it was nice for a while, I got sick of using insane topspin to hit hard winners that would stay in.

I used to string at 70. My big thing these days is keeping healthy. If I can't hit, I can't pay my bills. Taking a month off for tennis elbow is not an option. Sometimes I resent that I have to go this low because I'm sure certain shots suffer. Just another reason to love tennis, there are so many right answers.

Standupnfall
03-26-2010, 10:18 AM
How would a Soft Poly such as Black Magic or PolyStar Energy at 40-50lbs compare to a Super Soft Multi like Maxim Touch at 55-58lbs in terms of arm-friendliness.
Or even a cheap first gen Poly at 40-50.

I did like Polystar at 50 and wondering how arm friendly this is compared to a much softer string at a standard mid tension like 55lbs.

Thanks

JT_2eighty
03-26-2010, 10:29 AM
Glad to see the low tensions are catching on. I have a difficult time getting some students to drop but the ones that fully trust me have had great results. I can't imagine ever going back above 37lb.

I read one of your posts a while back that you've had success with matchpower at 35lb. I still have a set of that which i've been holding onto for when i do try this ultra low poly tension. Maybe this weekend... but i'm still having too much fun with this low kevlar/gut setup. I'll just have to compare the two! Ever since i've dropped below 50 i haven't looked back.

JT_2eighty
03-26-2010, 11:35 AM
How would a Soft Poly such as Black Magic or PolyStar Energy at 40-50lbs compare to a Super Soft Multi like Maxim Touch at 55-58lbs in terms of arm-friendliness.
Or even a cheap first gen Poly at 40-50.

I did like Polystar at 50 and wondering how arm friendly this is compared to a much softer string at a standard mid tension like 55lbs.

Thanks

Great question I wish I knew the answer to. Looks like I know what I'll be trying out the next few weeks! My only trial was BAM at 43lbs, compared to VS gut at 57lbs. The gut was still better for my arm, but once we get down into the 30s, this could change. I do know that kevlar/gut at 40-45 is quite comfy.

Thanks for the blog Chris, keep it up, good luck with 10lbs, heh.

Dot
03-26-2010, 11:46 AM
Really excited to hear this having some arm issues and getting old! but want to stay with a players frame (trying out blx 95 18X20) Wondering how low people have gone with multi's?? playing nxt or prince rip control will try low forties next string job (currently 52) May even be able to use a poly at low a tension

Standupnfall
03-26-2010, 11:59 AM
Really excited to hear this having some arm issues and getting old! but want to stay with a players frame (trying out blx 95 18X20) Wondering how low people have gone with multi's?? playing nxt or prince rip control will try low forties next string job (currently 52) May even be able to use a poly at low a tension

I dont know if Id like anything other than a smooth poly that low.
Part of the charm is how easily the string slides back into place after each hit and I dont think that would happen with a gummy feeling Multi.

Hankenstein
03-26-2010, 12:34 PM
Chris, I dont know if this is to much to ask for, but it would be really nice if you guys could record some of the action with your nice playtest camera!!

I think this will be pretty big here on the forum within a couple of weeks. Revolutionary things like this would well deserve a movie-shot :)

rudester
03-26-2010, 12:41 PM
How would a Soft Poly such as Black Magic or PolyStar Energy at 40-50lbs compare to a Super Soft Multi like Maxim Touch at 55-58lbs in terms of arm-friendliness.
Or even a cheap first gen Poly at 40-50.

I did like Polystar at 50 and wondering how arm friendly this is compared to a much softer string at a standard mid tension like 55lbs.

Thanks

I use multis at about 58-60 pounds, I also use Polystar energy at about 52 pounds and find it just as comfortable, in fact it is so comfortable i am thinking of stringing it with more tension because it is powerful as well. I have had shoulder issues which do not reappear when i use polystar energy, softest poly i know of.

Lambsscroll
03-26-2010, 02:29 PM
I tried 30 pounds with Ashaway kevlar 16g on the mains and a synthetic 16g string on the cross. Its totally playable at this tension. I think a poly string is the way to go though for less string movement.

decades
03-26-2010, 03:19 PM
I am using only 2 mains and 2 crosses strung at 9lbs. :twisted:

Nanshiki
03-26-2010, 03:47 PM
By the way, the reason your spin has improved is because low tensions allow the strings to slingshot the ball, because the mains move more freely with polys at low tension. But the stiffness of the poly allows you to string lower than a synthetic gut and still maintain reasonable control.

I'd try stringing the mains four or five pounds higher than the crosses to see what happens.

brownbearfalling
03-26-2010, 04:03 PM
Very interesting and unique thread.

One important question for me: Is broken in string that was initially strung tighter, then played with for an extensive time (6 months) the same as initially string a racquet at low tension?

I always figured that when I string at 54lbs I expect my strings to drop to 50lbs within a few hours. That is on my 16x19 pattern. But when I play with a 18x20 pattern, I string at the tension I want. I might try 40lbs but I can't see myself trying tension any lower.

I am guessing that stringing at 30lbs goes by very quick. The tensioner must catch pretty quick and the clamps wouldn't have any draw back.

TW Staff
03-26-2010, 04:53 PM
Today I hit my racquet at 10lbs. It was not as crazy as you'd imagine.

Here's the blog if you'd like to read all about it:
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1160

Chris, TW

W Cats
03-26-2010, 06:14 PM
Great thread thanks for the updates.

hescobal
03-26-2010, 06:33 PM
so 10lbs on a lock out is actually 8-9lbs on a constant pull correct?

jk175d
03-26-2010, 06:41 PM
Today I hit my racquet at 10lbs. It was not as crazy as you'd imagine.

Here's the blog if you'd like to read all about it:
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1160

Chris, TW

very intriguing! My question to you Chris, do you get the feeling that the novelty of the low tensions might be influencing your feelings about it at this point and once that aspect wears off you might think differently? Can you simply break down the pro's and cons of 30lbs vs your tried and true set-up? Thanks for sharing.

ttbrowne
03-26-2010, 07:22 PM
This is downright fascinating.

Toad
03-26-2010, 08:29 PM
so 10lbs on a lock out is actually 8-9lbs on a constant pull correct?
lol

I've been wanting to try this with a full bed of Kevlar for a while...this thread pushed me over the edge...I'm doing that test next. Full Kevlar @ 26 lbs. (half my normal Kevlar tension).

TW Staff
03-26-2010, 09:29 PM
very intriguing! My question to you Chris, do you get the feeling that the novelty of the low tensions might be influencing your feelings about it at this point and once that aspect wears off you might think differently? Can you simply break down the pro's and cons of 30lbs vs your tried and true set-up? Thanks for sharing.

I've been playing points while hitting so the novelty of the low tensions quickly went away as I had to get down to business. At first, when I realized how much spin I could get, I was trying to put maximum spin on everything -- fine for hitting, but not getting it done during points. I realized this very early on, so just played normally from then on.

First few tiebreaks with the 20lbs set up was a little tough mentally and I had to keep telling myself to forget about the string and just play my game. Returning at 5-5 in a breaker, it was tough to trust the strings and just hit my shots, but I did it and it worked out great.

Today, going to 10lbs was easier than going from 30lbs to 20lbs. The only issue I had at 10lbs was excessive vibration -- something I didn't have at 30lbs or 20lbs.

As I mentioned in the blog, I'm going to play around between 25-35lbs to find the right tension for me. Volandri strings around 26lbs on the pro tour, so that might be my next test tension.

Chris, TW

Yaz
03-26-2010, 09:47 PM
I've been playing points while hitting so the novelty of the low tensions quickly went away as I had to get down to business. At first, when I realized how much spin I could get, I was trying to put maximum spin on everything -- fine for hitting, but not getting it done during points. I realized this very early on, so just played normally from then on.

First few tiebreaks with the 20lbs set up was a little tough mentally and I had to keep telling myself to forget about the string and just play my game. Returning at 5-5 in a breaker, it was tough to trust the strings and just hit my shots, but I did it and it worked out great.

Today, going to 10lbs was easier than going from 30lbs to 20lbs. The only issue I had at 10lbs was excessive vibration -- something I didn't have at 30lbs or 20lbs.

As I mentioned in the blog, I'm going to play around between 25-35lbs to find the right tension for me. Volandri strings around 26lbs on the pro tour, so that might be my next test tension.

Chris, TW

Chris, how did you adjust to balls with no pace vs. lots of pace with the low tension? I had some trouble at both extremes when trying sub-50lbs.

ahile02
03-26-2010, 09:51 PM
Awesome interesting stuff Chris. Would you say at lower tensions you had to remember to stay loose on your strokes more? I'd imagine trying to muscle the ball at that low of tensions would just send the ball flying.

Do you think you're going to permanently use really low tensions?

I second what another poster said, a video of this would be really cool!

Thanks alot Chris, keep up the good work!

supineAnimation
03-26-2010, 09:58 PM
My brain can't compute playing at these tensions, but it's fascinating. I'm too much of chicken to ever go below 50.

travlerajm
03-26-2010, 11:27 PM
I'm currently using 45/44 Kevlar/poly in my diablo mid, and it feels great. I've never gone lower though - I'd be interested to hear a comparison of Kevlar/ poly at superlow tension vs full poly or co-poly. I personally feel that a Kevlar/poly grips the ball with a lot more bite and control than a full poly or co-poly.

Ross K
03-27-2010, 12:15 AM
How would a Soft Poly such as Black Magic or PolyStar Energy at 40-50lbs compare to a Super Soft Multi like Maxim Touch at 55-58lbs in terms of arm-friendliness.
Or even a cheap first gen Poly at 40-50.

I did like Polystar at 50 and wondering how arm friendly this is compared to a much softer string at a standard mid tension like 55lbs.

Thanks

Well, I tried it yesterday in my Vantage @ 45 lbs. And while it was too low for my tastes (too springy/lively, although the kick on serve was just unbelievable!), my impression of the string was very positive indeed.

As other have reported, it's soft and smooth, with good spin/control/oomph - and, yes, excellent comfort for a poly... okay, the tension obviously has to be considered here and in a big way. However, my instinct is this could well be precisely the poly I've been looking for. BTW my other Vantage is back from the stringers after the weekend (Poly. Energy @ 56 lbs), so I could answer your query better then.

Sorry. Can't really answer your other qsn re comparing to soft multi/Maxim Touch.

R.

nickarnold2000
03-27-2010, 12:52 AM
A great thread Chris - thanks. I've never been that adventurous with stringing so low, but after this thread I'm willing to try! And to top it all off -it's healthier for your arm; it's a win-win. :)

jayserinos99
03-27-2010, 01:09 AM
This is a fascinating thread that is about 10 years too late for me. My story is that growing up, I used a Pro Staff Classic 6.1 95 and I always thought that tighter was better...unfortunately I was stringing them at 65 lbs. with Forten Kevlar 15L. Unfortunately I ended up with arm problems that continue to this day. I remember at the time my dad saying I should string lower, say around 50, and thought he was nuts.

Now looking back, he wasn't that crazy after all. I'm currently using my PB10mid with MSV Hex 1.10 Black strung at 52 lbs. (Spring-Fall) and 50 lbs. (Winter). Here's the thing, using my ERT300 I found out my sweetspot ranges around the 40-44 lbs. range. I found this out just keeping track of tensions as soon as I get home along with how long I played and how many sets I played. Another crazy thing is that I can keep playing with the same strings until the bottom drops out to around 36-37 lbs. with no problem. I also don't break strings even though I hit with a good amount of spin since the strings don't really move all that much.

What I really like about my setup is the slingshot effect, people have commented that I tend to hit heavier if I just whip the PB10. I also like the ease of playing defense; just stick the racquet out and the ball just goes. Playing offense definitely is a ton better too as I'm getting a ton of jump on my shots; being lefty and having the spinny setup is definitely a boon.

Has my game changed from going to lower tensions? I think I try to exploit the setup now as it pertains to my game, with the PB10mid I can definitely hit some wicked angles and touch shots while also pounding big serves and groundies. Slightly OT, my trek-font PC600 was strung with VS17/Isospeed17 at 48/53 and it's still in the frame, but has dropped tension in the low 40s and I feel that although I'm not hitting the wicked angles, I can still reap the benefits of great defense and a more penetrating, flatter ball from the ground and serve.

The lesson learned for me is that I should keep an open mind from now on and try something new every so often. Who knows, it could be a pleasant surprise!

Hi I'm Ray
03-27-2010, 05:57 AM
I've been playing points while hitting so the novelty of the low tensions quickly went away as I had to get down to business. At first, when I realized how much spin I could get, I was trying to put maximum spin on everything -- fine for hitting, but not getting it done during points. I realized this very early on, so just played normally from then on.

First few tiebreaks with the 20lbs set up was a little tough mentally and I had to keep telling myself to forget about the string and just play my game. Returning at 5-5 in a breaker, it was tough to trust the strings and just hit my shots, but I did it and it worked out great.

Today, going to 10lbs was easier than going from 30lbs to 20lbs. The only issue I had at 10lbs was excessive vibration -- something I didn't have at 30lbs or 20lbs.

As I mentioned in the blog, I'm going to play around between 25-35lbs to find the right tension for me. Volandri strings around 26lbs on the pro tour, so that might be my next test tension.

Chris, TW

Hey Chris, thanks for keeping an open mind and trying out something that few would even think about. I'm currently in the mid to upper 40's for string tension but didn't think 30lbs would even return a ball - man was I wrong. I think this will help quite a few ppl out, you might even start a new trend.

I read your blog where you mentioned "hand pulling" the tension, and since 10lbs worked for you I thought, heck I could hand pull at least 10lbs. So I tried it on an old racket which had no strings in it anyways. I had no machine btw, but still remember how to string from back in the days, so I used a soft face woodworking clamp and a pair of work glove. I was surprised I could get the main strings pretty tight feeling. Any loose strings could be tightened up by pulling on previously tensioned strings while pulling on the end of the string. But the cross strings I couldn't do that with so they feel pretty loose. It's kinda rough on the hands though.

Anyway, it actually felt good so far bouncing the ball on the strings. Good call on the Barry White comment... My normal rackets suddenly sound tinny and feel board like right after boucing the ball on the hand pulled strings. I have no idea what the tension is obviously, I do know there is a drastic difference between the mains and the crosses. This is an old slightly fractured (it just makes slight sound) but still totally functional racket strung with super low priced Liberty 16 so it doesn't matter. I'll get to try it out in the afternoon.

Btw, I tried pushing down on the middle of the string bed firmly with my thumb while holding the edge of the frame with my other fingers, and the stringbed caves in about 1/4 of an inch on a 90sq in head. Could you tell me how much the string bed deforms on any one of your string tensions? Just trying to get an idea of how firm my strings currently are. Thanks again for your experiment.

spacediver
03-27-2010, 11:31 AM
if ultra low string tensions are so good, how come they haven't been used in the past?

TW Staff
03-27-2010, 11:36 AM
Awesome interesting stuff Chris. Would you say at lower tensions you had to remember to stay loose on your strokes more? I'd imagine trying to muscle the ball at that low of tensions would just send the ball flying.

Do you think you're going to permanently use really low tensions?

I second what another poster said, a video of this would be really cool!

Thanks alot Chris, keep up the good work!

I found if I just cleared my mind and played as usual, blocking out the low tension deal, worked best. It was tough at times to trust the racquet and stay on the gas during points, but it worked out.

It is amazing how quickly we adjust as players. After hitting with the 10lbs racquet, when I went to the 30lbs racquet it felt crisp in comparison. Imagine that, a racquet strung at 30lbs, feeling crisp! While it was obviously still very soft, compared to 10bs it was pretty crispy.

We are shooting the Nike Vapor Lunarlite shoe review Monday, so I'll tack on some additional shooting to get footage of hitting with low tensions.

Chris, TW

TW Staff
03-27-2010, 11:41 AM
if ultra low string tensions are so good, how come they haven't been used in the past?

They were used in the past in wooden racquets. With graphite, I'm not sure how syn gut or natural gut would be at these low tensions. The use of poly as a string material definitely makes low tensions a realistic option.

Poly is stiff before you string it, while you string it and after you string it. Even just holding the string, so at 0lbs, it is stiff.

Chris, TW

SplitStepper
03-27-2010, 12:04 PM
They were used in the past in wooden racquets. With graphite, I'm not sure how syn gut or natural gut would be at these low tensions. The use of poly as a string material definitely makes low tensions a realistic option.

Poly is stiff before you string it, while you string it and after you string it. Even just holding the string, so at 0lbs, it is stiff.

Chris, TW

Natural gut at 30lbs is really nice to feed with but impossible to compete at a high level. These tensions definitely require at least half poly. My go to right no is bph 18 mains and global 17 crosses 34/36. Its had about a week to settle in and feels great.

What I have wondered for a long time is at what point do you finally stop gaining power from dropping tension? I think its somewhere around 40lbs. At least for my Avery m3 power. Any thoughts?

spacediver
03-27-2010, 12:26 PM
They were used in the past in wooden racquets. With graphite, I'm not sure how syn gut or natural gut would be at these low tensions. The use of poly as a string material definitely makes low tensions a realistic option.

Poly is stiff before you string it, while you string it and after you string it. Even just holding the string, so at 0lbs, it is stiff.

Chris, TW

interesting. So it may be the case that ultra low string tensions may become mainstream with poly...

ClubHoUno
03-27-2010, 12:50 PM
Really interesting thread !

Has anyone tried hybrids with combos of a soft multi or gut in the mains and a stiff poly in the crosses and gone to these extreme low tensions or is there a limit here, because of the softer multi or gut, which will make the hybrid impossible to use for serious play ?

Anyone who has tested how low you can go with hybrids of soft multi/gut and stiff poly ?

I'm currently testing a hybrid a VS gut mains @ 52 lbs mains and Luxilon Alu Power @ 48 lbs crosses in my 95, SQ" 18X20 BLX, but will try to go for 48 lbs mains and 44 lbs crosses next time - but could one go even lower into the 30's with a hybrid of soft multi/gut and stiff poly ?

Fed Kennedy
03-27-2010, 04:29 PM
Great thread chris. I have a new frame that I think is ideal for this kind of experiment. (Blx pro tour 18x20). Very tight pattern stick. I will try it and report. My previous low was 45 in a k90. Topspin was incredible. My feeling is that with this new stick I can dip even lower. I think I'm gonna try a thick full poly in the 30s!

PeterCharvet
03-27-2010, 05:33 PM
VS gut mains....will try to go for 48 lbs mains and 44 lbs crosses next time - but could one go even lower into the 30's with a hybrid of soft multi/gut and stiff poly ?

LOL. Low tensions don't work for gut you idiot, because its already a very soft elastic string. It's just going to produce a huge trampoline effect with consequential huge loss of control.

stoble
03-27-2010, 05:46 PM
They were used in the past in wooden racquets. With graphite, I'm not sure how syn gut or natural gut would be at these low tensions. The use of poly as a string material definitely makes low tensions a realistic option.

Poly is stiff before you string it, while you string it and after you string it. Even just holding the string, so at 0lbs, it is stiff.

Chris, TW

I think this is an important distinction. I bet even a synthetic gut may be too stretchy to string this low.

Your blog has inspired me to give poly another shot. I first tried poly (SPPP) a year ago and didn't like it. I dropped the recommended 10% (from 53 to 47) but still felt it was too harsh and difficult to volley with. I have a pack of luxilon fluoro that has been collecting dust, so I'll use that. I think I'm gonna try 30 lbs and see how it goes.

ahile02
03-27-2010, 05:50 PM
LOL. Low tensions don't work for gut you idiot, because its already a very soft elastic string. It's just going to produce a huge trampoline effect with consequential huge loss of control.

That's a bit harsh don't you think. Don't ridicule the guy just because you understand how much more powerful gut is than polys.

ClubHoUno
03-27-2010, 06:14 PM
That's a bit harsh don't you think. Don't ridicule the guy just because you understand how much more powerful gut is than polys.

I can only read this fu#ked up jerks posts, when he's quoted by others, becausé the idiot and his alias Ivan Lendl's Backhand is on my ignorelist.

I've played with nat guts for longer and have used more sets of nat gut than this idiot has even seen in his life.

I'm not asking about full jobs of nat gut, but nat gut hybrids with poly, which because of the poly also can be played nicely at lower tension, just not tension as low as with full poly jobs of course.

I use 1-2 sets of VS Team Gut a month in hybrids with Luxilon Alu Power and WeissCannon Silverstring.
Have just not experimented with tension lower than 52 lbs mains for the gut and 48 lbs crosses for the poly in 95 SQ" 18X20 frames, but will start to do so soon.

Was just looking for comments from other guys - I was certainly NOT looking for a comments from the biggest TROLL on this board - PeterCharvet aka Ivan Lendl's Backhand - ignore the guy, in 50% of his posts in here, he's attacking me showing how big of a TROLL he really is, and the moderator does NOTHING.

Oh yes, the moderator banned me, while PeterCharvet still is free to continue his personal attacks on me.........

ahile02
03-27-2010, 06:27 PM
I can only read this fu#ked up jerks posts, when he's quoted by others, becausé the idiot and his alias Ivan Lendl's Backhand is on my ignorelist.

I've played with nat guts for longer and have used more sets of nat gut than this idiot has even seen in his life.

I'm not asking about full jobs of nat gut, but nat gut hybrids with poly, which because of the poly also can be played nicely at lower tension, just not tension as low as with full poly jobs of course.

I use 1-2 sets of VS Team Gut a month in hybrids with Luxilon Alu Power and WeissCannon Silverstring.
Have just not experimented with tension lower than 52 lbs mains for the gut and 48 lbs crosses for the poly in 95 SQ" 18X20 frames, but will start to do so soon.

Was just looking for comments from other guys - I was certainly NOT looking for a comments from the biggest TROLL on this board - PeterCharvet aka Ivan Lendl's Backhand - ignore the guy, in 50% of his posts in here, he's attacking me showing how big of a TROLL he really is, and the moderator does NOTHING.

Oh yes, the moderator banned me, while PeterCharvet still is free to continue his personal attacks on me.........

You should let a moderator know about all this.

JT_2eighty
03-27-2010, 07:02 PM
LOL. Low tensions don't work for gut you idiot, because its already a very soft elastic string. It's just going to produce a huge trampoline effect with consequential huge loss of control.

He was talking about gut hybrided with poly, and as has been talked about earlier in the thread, there are already some people who hybrid gut/poly at or below 40 lbs.

Can everyone just please chillax we're just talking about strings here, wow. And so what if he happened to string all gut at 40 lbs?? Let that person try it and then see what happens. no need for hostility and name-calling over string setups, geez.

For instance, I use kevlar mains with gut crosses, both strung mid 40's and the ball only flies long if I use a eastern grip. It's a very solid control setup, so I imagine poly instead of kevlar at this tension, still with gut cross will also be quite controlled. Or gut mains poly cross at that tension also will be playable. Give it a shot and see! :)

ClubHoUno
03-27-2010, 07:12 PM
He was talking about gut hybrided with poly, and as has been talked about earlier in the thread, there are already some people who hybrid gut/poly at or below 40 lbs.

Can everyone just please chillax we're just talking about strings here, wow. And so what if he happened to string all gut at 40 lbs?? Let that person try it and then see what happens. no need for hostility and name-calling over string setups, geez.

For instance, I use kevlar mains with gut crosses, both strung mid 40's and the ball only flies long if I use a eastern grip. It's a very solid control setup, so I imagine poly instead of kevlar at this tension, still with gut cross will also be quite controlled. Or gut mains poly cross at that tension also will be playable. Give it a shot and see! :)

The guy hates me and he uses every occasion possible to offend and hassle me..........
I only read his posts, when someone quotes him, since the guy and his 2 aka's is on my ignore list :)

I already am testing VS nat gut mains @ 52 lbs and Luxilon alu Power crosses @ 48 lbs, and love it.... Will try ti go lower step by step, but would like to hear if anyone has gone much lower with a nat gut - poly hybrid.

As you have noted, but Peter-MORON-IDIOT-JERK-Charvet has not, I'm not talking about full nat gut jobs here !

SplitStepper
03-27-2010, 07:35 PM
The guy hates me and he uses every occasion possible to offend and hassle me..........
I only read his posts, when someone quotes him, since the guy and his 2 aka's is on my ignore list :)

I already am testing VS nat gut mains @ 52 lbs and Luxilon alu Power crosses @ 48 lbs, and love it.... Will try ti go lower step by step, but would like to hear if anyone has gone much lower with a nat gut - poly hybrid.

As you have noted, but Peter-MORON-IDIOT-JERK-Charvet has not, I'm not talking about full nat gut jobs here !

Peter Charvet has certainly made himself known as a less than educated poster......If others haven't seen my previous posts, I already said I have been playing with hybrids in the 30's for a few years now. I compete at a 4.5 level and have no trouble with control. In fact, when I attempt to go to 40lbs is when I lose complete control. I teach alot of 4.0's at my place of work and when I play with over 40lbs I am not worth the price of the lesson. The ball starts flying everywhere. Full polys are great in the 30's and hybrids with global gut crosses feels extremely comfortable without much more ( if any) power. I think it is because its past the point of increasing power. Bottom line...hybrids with syn or nat gut in the 30lb range is an amazing setup for serious competition.

C-XIII
03-27-2010, 07:54 PM
Has anyone thought of the negative effects on the racket having it strung so low. My fischer says 45 to 65lbs and was wondering if I went under it be as bad as going higher up? Im guessing though they just put numbers for the lower end for an overall guess?Anyone have any knowledge of this because i definitly would like to try 35lbs or 40lbs.

armsty
03-27-2010, 08:04 PM
I strung up my KPro Open a few times at about 40lbs with cyber blue a while back and loved it but moved up to 50lb.

Bud
03-27-2010, 09:11 PM
It's been awhile since I've played with full-poly strung at low tension (tension less than 40#). I think the last time was in my PK 5G's

I just strung up one of my APDGT's with Big Hitter Blue at 38#... will give 'er a try, tomorrow.

beststringer
03-27-2010, 11:18 PM
just strung my babolat pure drive with 30lbs of 18g poly. feels soft, but it's a different feel from gut at 50.

nickarnold2000
03-28-2010, 12:19 AM
Has anyone thought of the negative effects on the racket having it strung so low. My fischer says 45 to 65lbs and was wondering if I went under it be as bad as going higher up? Im guessing though they just put numbers for the lower end for an overall guess?Anyone have any knowledge of this because i definitly would like to try 35lbs or 40lbs.
What could the negative effects be? Lower tension leads to less stress on the frame and that's a good thing. :)
Are you talking about the extra vibration that Chris was referring to at 10lbs?

corners
03-28-2010, 03:30 AM
Natural gut at 30lbs is really nice to feed with but impossible to compete at a high level. These tensions definitely require at least half poly. My go to right no is bph 18 mains and global 17 crosses 34/36. Its had about a week to settle in and feels great.

What I have wondered for a long time is at what point do you finally stop gaining power from dropping tension? I think its somewhere around 40lbs. At least for my Avery m3 power. Any thoughts?

Have you tried gut mains/poly crosses at these low tensions?

I've read that different materials have "power curves" such that their elasticity is highest at certain tensions. For gut, that peak is supposedly at 60 lbs. Nylon is 50 lbs. I've got no idea about poly.

auzzieizm
03-28-2010, 05:27 AM
I tried stringing my Prince Graphite Longbody last night at 32 lbs with SPPP. I typically love extremely high tensions. My usual setup is 66/68 lbs Blue Gear m/ SPPP x. I use that tension just based on the SPPP having snapped on me when I tried 72 lbs., and the Blue Gear losing spin capabilities on me over 66.

Anyway, I had a quick hit with the 32 lbs setup last night. At first I only took abbreviated swings thinking everything would fly long. Touch felt nice, and shots just seemed to be landing in. There weren't as many fly aways as I would have thought. I actually felt that flat shots were very effective and found myself hitting flat for the first half an hour. Then the strings settled in a little bit (typical for SPPP), and I started to find this tremendous range. Wherever I wanted to hit, whatever spin, and any angle all became available to me. At the time I was hitting into the wind, so I asked my hitting partner to switch so to have the wind behind me to see if I lost this amazing command I had over my shots. And to my shock, my shots became even more accurate with the wind behind me. Nothing seemed to fly. I was getting better control, touch, and spin than my 66/68 set up, and any other set up I have tried for that matter ( I do experiment alot).
I am going out for a match this morning against a 4.5 guy. So I hope to report back more good results...

As a post script, I love high tensions. I have always gravitated towards these setups. Played with Kevlar/ 15g syngut at 72 lbs when at school. Now I am back in the 60's with poly, but alot of time feel that I want something tighter. I religiously try tensions in the 50's after trying friend's racquets or based on recommendations. It feels good in everybody else's frame except mine. So stringing at 32 lbs tension is a quite a pleasant surprise for me.

nickarnold2000
03-28-2010, 05:44 AM
Ok, let's shut this thread down right now! I just don't want any of my opponents hearing about all this!! :shock:

Big_Dangerous
03-28-2010, 05:46 AM
It's been awhile since I've played with full-poly strung at low tension (tension less than 40#). I think the last time was in my PK 5G's

I just strung up one of my APDGT's with Big Hitter Blue at 38#... will give 'er a try, tomorrow.

So if I used like PHT I could string that much much lower, around 30-40 to try this lower tension out right?

Also what's the main difference between Co-poly and Poly?

kalic
03-28-2010, 06:04 AM
I believe that fresh poly stringjob is good at very low tension. But, any reports after 10 or more hours of play ?????
I really hate when poly lose elasticity (I don't have a problem when it lose tension, BTW).

SJP
03-28-2010, 06:32 AM
I believe that fresh poly stringjob is good at very low tension. But, any reports after 10 or more hours of play ?????
I really hate when poly lose elasticity (I don't have a problem when it lose tension, BTW).

I picked up a racquet strung with full Luxilon ALU in the high 30s that had been used in tournament play and then put back in the bag to sit for a couple of months. It didn't play that great - felt like a loss of control on some shots. When the racquet was freshly strung it was great.

Sublime
03-28-2010, 07:06 AM
I'd think that playability with these low tensions would be longer because the dynamic tension on a shot would be less. However any playability lost due to notching would likely be the same. Defitely going to try this out.

auzzieizm
03-28-2010, 07:46 AM
as a follow up on my match results: I did post a win :), but it was because my opponent retired :(. He strained a back muscle.

Anyway, today, I just didn't have the same results. I hit some great shots, and missed some easy ones. I actually found myself netting alot more balls than I was expecting. Defensive and touch shots were above average today. In the 5 games played, I had 4 drop shots for winners. I don't typically drop too much, but the touch and feel I was getting with the low set up just coerced me into those types of decisions. Serves were ok, but I found myself just going for a smooth motion instead of winding up for a big delivery. I was getting good spin on my second serves. But like I mentioned earlier, I missed some easy rally shots. The type of shot where I am not going for a winner nor playing defensively. Just didn't get a good feel. I also had more trouble today going for finishing shots. Just didn't have the same feel and confidence.

So, after logging 2 hitting sessions with the low tension, I am afraid I am going back up to the 60's. Hope my trial and error helps someone else...

Lawnmower
03-28-2010, 08:36 AM
Just strung up my prestige pro's at 32/34lb with proline 2. We'll see how it goes.

beststringer
03-28-2010, 11:03 AM
just strung my babolat pure drive with 30lbs of 18g poly. feels soft, but it's a different feel from gut at 50.

this is the one of the best setup ever for forehands and slice. not so much for the serve. i need more time with this tension to get the serves right.i had 3 other friends tested it. none of them liked it as much as i do. so i think it has to do with the stroke u hit. i think it suits me.

first generation ($2) 18g poly at 30, with babolat team.

SplitStepper
03-28-2010, 11:29 AM
as a follow up on my match results: I did post a win :), but it was because my opponent retired :(. He strained a back muscle.

Anyway, today, I just didn't have the same results. I hit some great shots, and missed some easy ones. I actually found myself netting alot more balls than I was expecting. Defensive and touch shots were above average today. In the 5 games played, I had 4 drop shots for winners. I don't typically drop too much, but the touch and feel I was getting with the low set up just coerced me into those types of decisions. Serves were ok, but I found myself just going for a smooth motion instead of winding up for a big delivery. I was getting good spin on my second serves. But like I mentioned earlier, I missed some easy rally shots. The type of shot where I am not going for a winner nor playing defensively. Just didn't get a good feel. I also had more trouble today going for finishing shots. Just didn't have the same feel and confidence.

So, after logging 2 hitting sessions with the low tension, I am afraid I am going back up to the 60's. Hope my trial and error helps someone else...

As a quick note, it took me about 6 months to a year to really settle in to these low tensions. At first, I would go back and forth. Of course, my boss who originally recommended the low tension would make fun of me when I went back to the tighter stick. Then he would point out all the shots that I would have made with the loose stick. After awhile of fighting back and forth with myself, I eventually stayed in the 30's. Although I no longer work with him, I'm thankful for him showing me his secrets.

For those that are experimenting, give it time. Just keep one frame with low tension and break it out whenever you can. Of the dozen or so students that I have tried to convert, less than half actually stayed with it. Its definitely NOT for everyone. But for those who dig it, its really a joy.

auzzieizm
03-28-2010, 12:05 PM
As a quick note, it took me about 6 months to a year to really settle in to these low tensions. At first, I would go back and forth. Of course, my boss who originally recommended the low tension would make fun of me when I went back to the tighter stick. Then he would point out all the shots that I would have made with the loose stick. After awhile of fighting back and forth with myself, I eventually stayed in the 30's. Although I no longer work with him, I'm thankful for him showing me his secrets.

For those that are experimenting, give it time. Just keep one frame with low tension and break it out whenever you can. Of the dozen or so students that I have tried to convert, less than half actually stayed with it. Its definitely NOT for everyone. But for those who dig it, its really a joy.

That's interesting. I am sure I would feel more comfortable with the setup if I played it for longer.

SplitStepper
03-28-2010, 12:24 PM
I believe that fresh poly stringjob is good at very low tension. But, any reports after 10 or more hours of play ?????
I really hate when poly lose elasticity (I don't have a problem when it lose tension, BTW).

I have a gamma tension check and suprisingly, the global crosses lose more tension than the poly.

Also, someone asked about gut in the mains and poly in the crosses. I tried that a couple years ago at around 33lb and didn't like it. It didn't have the same control is all I can remember.

schenkelini
03-28-2010, 12:53 PM
This is an interesting thread. I had just finished reading some posts similar over at stringforum.net. One of the things that came out there was to slow the pulling process down during stringing and to pull the last two mains at 8lbs higher to have a consistent string base. I plan to try this tomorrow when my Stringway clamps arrive.

ClubHoUno
03-28-2010, 01:41 PM
I love this thread to pieces :lol:

I'm definitely going to experiment with full poly at VERY low tension (35 lbs and 28 lbs) the next couple of weeks and will also try some nat gut mains-poly cross hybrids at pretty low tension (48 lbs gut mains, 44 lbs poly crosses)

What I'm ancious to hear is how the poly behaves, when strung at that low a tension. Will it keep and hold its elasticity and tension longer, will it be the same or maybe even worse :confused:

My guess is that the poly should hold its tension and elasticity for a longer period, when strung at low tension - but I'm only guessing :)

I believe that fresh poly stringjob is good at very low tension. But, any reports after 10 or more hours of play ?????
I really hate when poly lose elasticity (I don't have a problem when it lose tension, BTW).

I'd think that playability with these low tensions would be longer because the dynamic tension on a shot would be less. However any playability lost due to notching would likely be the same. Defitely going to try this out.

I also wonder how the poly will last and behave, when strung at that low of a tension......would think it should keep its elasticity and tension better at low tension.

Just strung up my prestige pro's at 32/34lb with proline 2. We'll see how it goes.

Looking forward to hear about your 'low tension journey'!

As a quick note, it took me about 6 months to a year to really settle in to these low tensions. At first, I would go back and forth. Of course, my boss who originally recommended the low tension would make fun of me when I went back to the tighter stick. Then he would point out all the shots that I would have made with the loose stick. After awhile of fighting back and forth with myself, I eventually stayed in the 30's. Although I no longer work with him, I'm thankful for him showing me his secrets.

For those that are experimenting, give it time. Just keep one frame with low tension and break it out whenever you can. Of the dozen or so students that I have tried to convert, less than half actually stayed with it. Its definitely NOT for everyone. But for those who dig it, its really a joy.

I will try that. String 2-3 of my frames at low tension and the other at my usual tension level and then compare, what I pefer.

I have a gamma tension check and suprisingly, the global crosses lose more tension than the poly.

Also, someone asked about gut in the mains and poly in the crosses. I tried that a couple years ago at around 33lb and didn't like it. It didn't have the same control is all I can remember.

I'm currently experimenting with a hybrid of nat gut mains @ 48 lbs and poly crosses @ 44 lbs. It plays nice so far. Need more playing hours to decide if it's for me though :)

schenkelini
03-28-2010, 02:06 PM
One of the things that came out in the thread that I mentioned above is that stringing poly faster and at higher tensions often kills it's resiliency. Once it is stretched beyond a certain point it goes dead very quickly. If this is correct, then stringing it lower should make the strings last much longer. I look forward to trying that out. I am also wondering about strings that I have felt were too stiff in the past. I have a set of Blue Gear that I didn't like at higher tensions. It is like a whole new world has opened up.
Just as I thought I had everything figured out as to my personal preferences, now I have to start all over again.

no1
03-28-2010, 03:22 PM
So as a summary, what were the disadvantages of low tension? Difficult to control late balls?

Hi I'm Ray
03-28-2010, 04:09 PM
went and hit with my random low tension set up yesterday for about 1/2 hour. It seemed pretty low powered but had very good bite on slice. It was easier to control and get used to than I thought, but it felt like playing with rubber bands for strings, as I'm using nylon, not poly. It felt a little out of control on some shots, especially those that landed near my feet, and a little unpredictable at times.

JT_2eighty
03-28-2010, 05:37 PM
My guess is that the poly should hold its tension and elasticity for a longer period, when strung at low tension - but I'm only guessing :)


I also wonder how the poly will last and behave, when strung at that low of a tension......would think it should keep its elasticity and tension better at low tension.




I agree. I have read some advice over the year from reliable MRTs, that basically the lower you initially string a poly, the less stress you are putting on the string from the start (i.e. poly is not very resilient to begin with), so if you only string it at 30-40 lbs, you aren't "taxing" it's elasticity to begin with like you will if you string it at 50-70 lbs, so that in the end, a low tensioned poly *should* retain it's limited elasticity for a bit longer than a higher tensioned poly.

But again, the only way to see is to try it out, and in theory sounds like the string should be playable a bit longer when initially strung low.

nickarnold2000
03-28-2010, 09:19 PM
I believe that fresh poly stringjob is good at very low tension. But, any reports after 10 or more hours of play ?????
I really hate when poly lose elasticity (I don't have a problem when it lose tension, BTW).
I would guess that using a newer co-poly that has great tension maintenance ie. Spin-X or Tornado would be a better choice here, IMO. And polys lose less elasticity at lower tensions too.

babar
03-29-2010, 08:22 AM
I was playing with co-polys strung around 40lbs in a 100 sq. in. head size for a while and they always felt really good. I loved the feel, but the strings felt dead after a shorter time. I've never tried it with a multi or other syn gut.

stingstang
03-29-2010, 09:01 AM
I've been creeping my tension down a lb or two every time since starting to use poly and like it more each time. I've going to stop being a chicken and drop it down to 40lbs this time. I use a wilson K95 16x18 and SPPP, anyone else use this combo?

Bittabonga
03-29-2010, 09:30 AM
I tried 50 pounds the other day and I seriously hit a ball over the fence in the air.:shock:

So I won't be venturing into the 30s 40s.

Kcraig
03-29-2010, 10:31 AM
I love the lower tensions, but have never ventured under the 50lb range. Lowest I ever tried (and enjoyed) was 50# on my previous stick-Prince Tour Diablo MP 16*18.

Are most of you out there trying these uber low (35-45#) tensions using midsize/18x20 patterns such as Chris? My stick is a 100"16x19 and wonder how a full poly at 40# would compare in this more open pattern??:confused:. Anyone try these low setups in the more open 16x19 100'/midplus head? Thanks so much:)

Dot
03-29-2010, 10:53 AM
Can't find it but i think i recall Jack Groppel looking at this in high tech tennis from 1992?? before poly and likely before some of you were born! I thought 40 was the ideal tension balancing control and power. Any way did try my old prince graphite mid at 45 with syn gut and it is awesome Switching to BLX 18X20 and will start stringing at mid forties (my age!) and creep down as low as comfortable

luishcorreia
03-29-2010, 11:02 AM
Nice thread Cris. I read the TW blog and Im going to give it a go.

I use a 100sqin vantage frame, with Krischbaum Competition 17, strung at 60 lbls.

Two months, when I started using this type of string, I strung them at 50 lbls, because I thought that being a mono-filament, that I should lower the tension. It took me a couple of hits to get used to it, but I loved it. Nice pop on groundies, nice pop on serve, on blocking the ball, and very nice spin.

I'l going to try maybe 40 lbs and go down from there.

Best regards.

michaelavich
03-29-2010, 03:42 PM
wishing now that i had not sold my tour10 mid V-engine. low tension poly may have given me what I was missing in that frame...

SplitStepper
03-29-2010, 04:17 PM
I tried 50 pounds the other day and I seriously hit a ball over the fence in the air.:shock:

So I won't be venturing into the 30s 40s.

Thats whay happens to me when I try 50lbs!!! It goes against what we've been taught, but I get much more control from 35lbs.

After hitting for awhile with the strings you can see in the fuzz pattern on the strings its starts on one corner of the frame and ends on the other. The dwell time is insanely comfortable and useful in alot of situations. For me at least.

The Pure One
03-29-2010, 05:35 PM
I love the lower tensions, but have never ventured under the 50lb range. Lowest I ever tried (and enjoyed) was 50# on my previous stick-Prince Tour Diablo MP 16*18.

Are most of you out there trying these uber low (35-45#) tensions using midsize/18x20 patterns such as Chris? My stick is a 100"16x19 and wonder how a full poly at 40# would compare in this more open pattern??:confused:. Anyone try these low setups in the more open 16x19 100'/midplus head? Thanks so much:)

Excellent question. I strung my racquet with Unique Big Hitter 16g mains and Lux BB Ace 18g in the crosses @ 45 pounds in my modified Yonex RDS 001 ( 98 ) (13 oz. and 27.65 in. long); open string pattern 19 x 16. I will post the results as soon as I can. I did not have the stomach to go 30 or 35 pounds.

BTW, from Tennis Magazine: The Prince that David Ferrer uses is strung @ 44 pounds with Lux BB Original... and Baggy 46/51.

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/gear.aspx?articleid=3035&zoneid=24

TW Staff
03-29-2010, 06:04 PM
Okay, so my racquets sat over the weekend and I took them out again today. I hit with the 10lbs racquet and the 30lbs racquet again, plus one at my regular 52lbs.

Here's my blog from today's hit:
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1167

We shot some video and will try to get it posted soon.

Cheers,
Chris, TW.

C-XIII
03-29-2010, 07:19 PM
What could the negative effects be? Lower tension leads to less stress on the frame and that's a good thing. :)
Are you talking about the extra vibration that Chris was referring to at 10lbs?

yes the vibration and also why the rackets have a intended range,I mean obviously they have to set some standards but I was wondering on that. But hell I never really thought of less tension and less stress on the frame. Ill def be trying this out then!

thebuffman
03-29-2010, 10:10 PM
what in the living world. now i am going to have to give this a shot. this thread has my mind all messed up especially after reading the article which highlights the low tensions being used by pros. i thought the majority of all pros strung at 60+. boy was i dead wrong!

schenkelini
03-29-2010, 10:18 PM
I can imagine that a follow topic will be what polys play best at low tension. This could go on forever.

Bartelby
03-29-2010, 10:24 PM
Does the sweet spot get noticeably larger with such low tension?

MayDay
03-30-2010, 12:06 AM
Maybe the next hot thing is hand stringing? :)
Special order some TW hand stringing gloves. :p

I'm currently trying 45# with Prince Syn Gut Original 17 with positive results. I'll also take the plunge into 30# in a week to see if I get a little more "ball pocketing" feel.

jk175d
03-30-2010, 05:50 AM
I feel like some of you are missing a key point. A lot of you are talking about your results from stringing in the 40's and even low 50's and saying there's too much trampoline so you don't want to go lower. But from what Chris has reported I gather there is a threshold which is crossed somewhere in the low 30's which creates a totally different set of circumstances and "low tension" effect. So those of you saying you tried the 40's but weren't brave enough to go into the 30's, I don't think you have even touched on what Chris has been experiencing with his low tensions. It sounds like 30's is not more of the same from the 40's and 50's, when you get that low is becomes something new altogether.

I'm REALLY curious to try this out but I've been playing so well lately with my 52/55 hybrid set-up that I'm reluctant to throw a wrench into the works. I'll probably try 30 on an old frame I don't use anymore though anyway just to see for myself.

jrod
03-30-2010, 06:46 AM
I feel like some of you are missing a key point. A lot of you are talking about your results from stringing in the 40's and even low 50's and saying there's too much trampoline so you don't want to go lower. But from what Chris has reported I gather there is a threshold which is crossed somewhere in the low 30's which creates a totally different set of circumstances and "low tension" effect. So those of you saying you tried the 40's but weren't brave enough to go into the 30's, I don't think you have even touched on what Chris has been experiencing with his low tensions. It sounds like 30's is not more of the same from the 40's and 50's, when you get that low is becomes something new altogether.

Agree. I'm still having a really hard time imagining what 30 lbs would feel like, never mind how it plays. I do get the sense that it produces a heavier ball. In fact, there is a fellow I occasionally hit with who strings his frame with poly in this range. His strokes are very old school, yet his ball can be very deceiving in terms of weight an pace. I'm not sure how to describe it but it can be very difficult to handle.

I'm REALLY curious to try this out but I've been playing so well lately with my 52/55 hybrid set-up that I'm reluctant to throw a wrench into the works. I'll probably try 30 on an old frame I don't use anymore though anyway just to see for myself.I'm in the same boat as you...extremely happy with my current set-up. Quite frankly, it's hard to imagine what improvement might result from lowering the tension. I suspect from reading Chris' blog it might lead to a heavier ball, but since I'm not the one receiving what I generate, the feedback is subject to interpretation. I really wish there was a way I could play myself so I could get a better sense as to what it's like to be on the receiving end of my game.

Audiophile
03-30-2010, 08:00 AM
Chris,

I have been keeping an eye on this thread and reading every blog you have posted. I want to thank you for sharing your experience with me, as well as other members. I think its great to be able to share this type of knowledge with so many.

I have for years played with sub 50 tensions, but never down to 30. After your posts, I'm certainly going to give it a try.

Keep up the great work! :)

SplitStepper
03-30-2010, 08:06 AM
Does the sweet spot get noticeably larger with such low tension?

Absolutely.

dman72
03-30-2010, 08:07 AM
I feel like some of you are missing a key point. A lot of you are talking about your results from stringing in the 40's and even low 50's and saying there's too much trampoline so you don't want to go lower. But from what Chris has reported I gather there is a threshold which is crossed somewhere in the low 30's which creates a totally different set of circumstances and "low tension" effect. So those of you saying you tried the 40's but weren't brave enough to go into the 30's, I don't think you have even touched on what Chris has been experiencing with his low tensions. It sounds like 30's is not more of the same from the 40's and 50's, when you get that low is becomes something new altogether.

I'm REALLY curious to try this out but I've been playing so well lately with my 52/55 hybrid set-up that I'm reluctant to throw a wrench into the works. I'll probably try 30 on an old frame I don't use anymore though anyway just to see for myself.

I think an even more important aspect of this whole thing is the type of string. We discussed this phenomenom back in one of the "Kevlar at low tensions" threads.

Because Poly and kevlar are not elastic, lowering tensions does not have the same effect with them as lowering gut or synthetic gut. I felt that my kevlar jobs in the low 40's felt very mushy, but actually were way underpowered compared to the same set up in the 50's. This is because they just give when you hit the ball, but don't snap back.

It's kind of like the difference between a flexible and stiff frame. The flexible frame does not "snap back" enough to have any effect on the flight of the ball in terms of propelling it..it gives on impact decreasing power...the frame returning to its normal shape has no effect on the flight of the ball.

When you lower tensions on very stiff strings, you get similar effects. But make no mistake, it feels very mushy.

endbegin
03-30-2010, 08:08 AM
Can't wait to see the videos, Chris.

I have always played around 60 lbs but am stringing one of my frames with all poly at 50. Yes, I know it isn't 30 lbs (!) but baby steps ...

Xenakis
03-30-2010, 08:29 AM
Tried stringing up an old frame at 17kg/37.4lbs last night (Yonex RD-Ti 70 Long MP. Gamma Advantage 15L) Played a set with it earlier.

It's not that low I suppose and the Gamma string isn't exactly a top notch co-poly but it worked ok. Will go lower next time, going to have to take one weight off my dropweight I think as I've run out of scale on the two weight ruler (only goes down to 16kg)

Definitely more ball pocketing and spin, but I'll need to adjust for volleys and drop shots etc. Very comfortable too which is nice.

Will try stringing my main frame (Vantage 95 18x20) at about 30lbs next I think.

Kcraig
03-30-2010, 08:30 AM
Okay, so my racquets sat over the weekend and I took them out again today. I hit with the 10lbs racquet and the 30lbs racquet again, plus one at my regular 52lbs.

Here's my blog from today's hit:
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1167

We shot some video and will try to get it posted soon.

Cheers,
Chris, TW.

Awesome stuff Chris--but as I stated in my earlier post, all these low tensions are with midsize 95" and tight 18*20 string patterns. I am curious on how this same experiment would work out on a larger head (100") and a more open pattern such as 16*19.:confused: My assumption is that feel would be great, but control would be suffer! Any insight here? Thanks so much for taking the plunge for us all-:)

TW Staff
03-30-2010, 10:43 AM
Awesome stuff Chris--but as I stated in my earlier post, all these low tensions are with midsize 95" and tight 18*20 string patterns. I am curious on how this same experiment would work out on a larger head (100") and a more open pattern such as 16*19.:confused: My assumption is that feel would be great, but control would be suffer! Any insight here? Thanks so much for taking the plunge for us all-:)

I'm actually splitting the difference -- midsize but a 16x19 pattern.

Jason just strung his PB9 at 35lbs which is a 98sq. in. and a 16x19. Will be interesting to see how it hits.

Chris, TW

Shangri La
03-30-2010, 11:03 AM
Okay, so my racquets sat over the weekend and I took them out again today. I hit with the 10lbs racquet and the 30lbs racquet again, plus one at my regular 52lbs.

Here's my blog from today's hit:
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1167

We shot some video and will try to get it posted soon.

Cheers,
Chris, TW.

Ohh, the madness...

This is really intriguing. I wonder if extreme low tensions only work with poly strings - what about multi/gut?

Kcraig
03-30-2010, 11:13 AM
I'm actually splitting the difference -- midsize but a 16x19 pattern.

Jason just strung his PB9 at 35lbs which is a 98sq. in. and a 16x19. Will be interesting to see how it hits.

Chris, TW

Def interested in Jason's PB9 results. That stick is very similar to my BLX Open I have modified to 340g. Do you know what poly he is going with? thanks Chris!:)

KC

ClubHoUno
03-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Ohh, the madness...

This is really intriguing. I wonder if extreme low tensions only work with poly strings - what about multi/gut?

I use a hybrid of VS Team 17 mains @ 48 lbs and Luxilon Alu Power crosses @ 44 lbs in my 2 Völkl PB10 Mid's - this is the lowest I've tried in my life.

I would think a full job of multi or gut should not be strung lower than 50 lbs depending on frame size and string pattern tightness of course.

But when doing a hybrid of a soft multi or gut with a stiff poly, you CAN go pretty low, but not as low as the 25 lbs or 10 lbs Chris and the TW Team are testing full poly at currently.

TW Staff
03-30-2010, 11:29 AM
Def interested in Jason's PB9 results. That stick is very similar to my BLX Open I have modified to 340g. Do you know what poly he is going with? thanks Chris!:)

KC

I had my Powerbridge 9 strung with Solinco Outlast.

Jason, TW

edberger
03-30-2010, 12:38 PM
After reading Chris' blog, I embarked on this low tension experiment using one of my extra PC600s strung with my regular setup of SPPP & Maxim Touch, except at 35 lb. I normally string at 54/52.

My first observation of this experiment was that stringing the racquet was actually more difficult at 35 versus 54/52. At such low tension, the mains flop around like rubber bands and makes weaving the crosses more of a chore.

On the court, my impressions mirrored Chris' (for the most part). The first thing I noticed was that ball pocketing was excellent! I could really feel the stringbed deflection and the ball seemed to dwell much longer. Like Chris noted, spin is definitely an advantage of this kind of setup. The strings really seemed to grab the ball. I don't have very spinny strokes to begin with, but my partner commented that my groundies were definitely jumping off the court much more. Low slices were great...I could really carve into them, especially when stretched wide. Volleys were okay. I didn't need to be as firm to make the ball go. But this brings me to the big disadvantage of low tension (IMO). While spin was great, I felt a big loss in directional control. When I hit the ball flat, or tried to angle it, the results were less predictable than with my normal tension. It was also a little more difficult to control the depth (not because trampolining, but more of uncertainty in the angle that the ball is coming off the strings). Maybe this is something that just takes more time to get used to.

All in all, a very interesting experiment! I'll continue to playtest this stick to see what else I can learn.

Keep up the good work, Chris, and thanks inspiring some interesting conversation!

rasajadad
03-30-2010, 12:53 PM
As I've previously posted, I string for a client who uses a Prince Graphite 125 with full gut at 13 lbs. in a 1-piece. He can hit with incredibly well-disguised touch and underspin. A post script to this story is that when he asks me to restring, I simply untie the knots and undo the string recoil it and store it. I just tried reusing it in a friend's racquet (at 55lbs.) He loves it.

Jack & Coke
03-30-2010, 03:56 PM
Head Classic Mid ( 18 x 20 )
M: CyberFlash, 1.30 @ 30 lbs.
C: MSV Focus Hex, 1.27 @ 30 lbs.


so far so good, a really fun experience!
Topspin FH - very nice! Noticed an increase in errors from my opponents trying to return my lefty kick FH's. Also noticed that I started doing more Nadal-style reverse-forehands. I didn't mean to, things just kinda worked out that way.
Slice BH - great bite, and more effective.
Spin serves (twist, kick, slice).. jumping! Got some great action on the ball with less effort.
Flat serves - heavy, but less consistant (my % went way down)
Topspin BH - less consistant, still need to make adjustments to the low tension on this side.. dumped a lot into the net.

TW Staff
03-30-2010, 05:40 PM
I didn't get a chance to do the hand pull tension test today due to being in meetings and running out of time. However, we do have the video done of me hitting at 10lbs, 30lbs and at 52lbs.

Here it is:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/video/StringTension.html

Cheers,
Chris, TW.

corners
03-30-2010, 06:44 PM
Head Classic Mid ( 18 x 20 )
M: CyberFlash, 1.30 @ 30 lbs.
C: MSV Focus Hex, 1.27 @ 30 lbs.


so far so good, a really fun experience!
Topspin FH - very nice! Noticed an increase in errors from my opponents trying to return my lefty kick FH's. Also noticed that I started doing more Nadal-style reverse-forehands. I didn't mean to, things just kinda worked out that way.
Slice BH - great bite, and more effective.
Spin serves (twist, kick, slice).. jumping! Got some great action on the ball with less effort.
Flat serves - heavy, but less consistant (my % went way down)
Topspin BH - less consistant, still need to make adjustments to the low tension on this side.. dumped a lot into the net.


J&C, Why the textured strings in the cross?

Fed Kennedy
03-30-2010, 06:52 PM
My prelimary test. 45 min of groundies, no serves or volleys.
Racquet: blx pro tour 18x20
String: alu power
Tension: 30

Racquet was pinging like crazy. I put a worm dampener in it and it went completely silent. Dead quiet. And this frame was cracking with co-poly at 52 and a dampener.

My spin was just dirty. I had no idea what the ball was going to do until it bounced due to the lack of sound. Also, my flat shots were flatter. Just grazing off the court. Fh and bh slice was dying on impact rather than skinning. CC forehand was the best, I could really angle it off.
So far, all positive except for the wierd silence.

Jack & Coke
03-30-2010, 07:03 PM
J&C, Why the textured strings in the cross?

heh.. cause I have a reel of it :)

corners
03-31-2010, 12:21 AM
heh.. cause I have a reel of it :)

Ah. My impression is that textured polys really only do what they're intended to do, increase friction between ball and string, when they are in the mains. I also think that Hexs, due to their sharp edges, cut through mains more quickly than a smooth cross. I tried Hex 18L as a full job one time and the crosses sliced through the mains in half an hour - they were well notched after 10 minutes. Never had any other strings break so fast on me (although I've rarely used strings that thin either). Since then I've always put shaped polys only in the mains. Just my $.02.

PimpMyGame
03-31-2010, 02:12 AM
Ah. My impression is that textured polys really only do what they're intended to do, increase friction between ball and string, when they are in the mains. I also think that Hexs, due to their sharp edges, cut through mains more quickly than a smooth cross. I tried Hex 18L as a full job one time and the crosses sliced through the mains in half an hour - they were well notched after 10 minutes. Never had any other strings break so fast on me (although I've rarely used strings that thin either). Since then I've always put shaped polys only in the mains. Just my $.02.

I have used a textured string in the cross before, again like J&C because it was lying around. I used it to tame the power of natural gut in the mains to very good effect. However, I'm not a string breaker...

jrod
03-31-2010, 04:41 AM
I didn't get a chance to do the hand pull tension test today due to being in meetings and running out of time. However, we do have the video done of me hitting at 10lbs, 30lbs and at 52lbs.

Here it is:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/video/StringTension.html

Cheers,
Chris, TW.


Thanks for the video Chris....Watching it I can't tell diddly (big surprise?). Gonna have to try it myself to see. Last week I hit with a guy who hits perhaps the heaviest ball I've had to deal with in a long time. I could feel my frame bending and cupping the ball against him....I can't even begin to imagine what a 30lb string job will feel like against this guy...a "slingshot" comes to mind.

Shangri La
03-31-2010, 09:53 AM
Eagerly awaiting Jason's experience with the PB9.

Xenakis
03-31-2010, 09:59 AM
Played today with my Vantage 95 strung at 30lbs (Gamma Advantage and Black Code)

Very pleased with it. Definitely pockets the ball well and my forehand was much improved (not been playing that long so tend to overhit my forehand and it lacks spin, this extra pocketing effect made my shots dip down nicely into the court, most of the time anyway.)

2HBH had more power (my best shot), serve about the same, volleys and dropshots were better apart from some reaching defensive shots that went long (need a minor adjustment there, no biggie.)

Also was really comfortable to play with.

I'm sold. Thanks for publishing the experiment Chris, I might try 20lbs next time.

TW Staff
03-31-2010, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the video Chris....Watching it I can't tell diddly (big surprise?). Gonna have to try it myself to see. Last week I hit with a guy who hits perhaps the heaviest ball I've had to deal with in a long time. I could feel my frame bending and cupping the ball against him....I can't even begin to imagine what a 30lb string job will feel like against this guy...a "slingshot" comes to mind.

It is really hard to see the spin on video. If anything, I think the video just demonstrates that I can go out and hit the way I would normally hit -- even at 10lbs. Something I did not expect to be possible going into this test.

Going to go hand pull tension right now, then hit with Spencer. Will post how it all goes.

Chris, TW.

duffman
03-31-2010, 10:37 AM
I tried Big hitter blue in a pure storm tour 16 x 20 in 54 and 38 lbs. At 38, like previously reported I could really feel the pocketing and got wicked spin. But I actually didn't find it that comfortable. It vibrated like crazy (I dont use dampeners) and while the intial pocketing felt nice it felt like it got to a point where the poly just stopped stretching and then felt kind of harsh. It felt like the stringbed just bottomed out. I do hit the ball pretty hard and with lots of spin so I tried backing off a bit and with a slower swing speed I didn't have that same bottoming out feeling but I can't play like that. I then went to the 54 lb racquet and it just felt soooo much better. It looks like this will be a short experiment for me although I will miss the pop from serving with the tension at 38!

I was also very surprised that there was still lots of control to be had with the low tension. The guys I was hitting with were laughing when I told them about the low tension racquet, but very intrigued with the spin generated and the retained control. But like I said earlier the bottoming out harsness feeling is a deal killer for me...

Jack & Coke
03-31-2010, 12:46 PM
Some quick comments from someone I know who has a lot of experience using various super low tension set-ups:

thinks it's GREAT for groundies (increased action for topspin and slice)
SUCKS for volleys because the reverse is true.
heavy passing shots have traction on your loose string bed and deflect with less prediciton (more difficult to control). Thus, you are left to being more conservative and "blocking" back heavy passes with your volley (which is a weaker shot)
had great results with low tension in singles, not so much in dubs.
tough on low volley digs, which are the most important ones in dubs.
can only really "attack" soft balls when at the net
for dubs, a compromise is need.. (i.e. don't go super low in tension since volleys are more frequent and critical)

Ripper014
03-31-2010, 01:20 PM
Some quick comments from someone I know who has a lot of experience using various super low tension set-ups:

thinks it's GREAT for groundies (increased action for topspin and slice)
SUCKS for volleys because the reverse is true.
heavy passing shots have traction on your loose string bed and deflect with less prediciton (more difficult to control). Thus, you are left to being more conservative and "blocking" back heavy passes with your volley (which is a weaker shot)
had great results with low tension in singles, not so much in dubs.
tough on low volley digs, which are the most important ones in dubs.
can only really "attack" soft balls when at the net
for dubs, a compromise is need.. (i.e. don't go super low in tension since volleys are more frequent and critical)



I have tested low tension off and on since the 80's, and everytime I find that I struggle with control issues. The dreaded slingshot issue... now again I am tempted to try it this time with a poly.

As far as low tensions and being unable to volley... well the most famous low tension player I know is perhaps the best volleyer ever, and not surprisingly in my opinion the best doubles player to ever pick up a racket. Yes none of us have his talent, but I would not say it couldn't be done.

I am just waiting for a string to break and I will try test a low tension poly string job.

Jack & Coke
03-31-2010, 01:35 PM
but I would not say it couldn't be done



Just to be clear.. I believe the comments my friend made were regarding his experience with ultra-low tensions (i.e. sub 30's) and the volley stroke.

I played dubs the other night (Head Classic Mid 18 x 20, 127 mm, 30 lbs.), with no increase in difficultly at the net. Then again, I was cognisant of my low tension set-up, and probably made micro adjustments out there without realizing it.

TW Staff
03-31-2010, 01:55 PM
I strung my Volkl Power Bridge 10 mid at 35lbs and I have been testing this tension for just over a week now. I love the feel at 35 vs my normal 53 lbs and I am surprised by how controllable the low tension is. I have noticed an increase in spin potential and my backhand slice stays lower to the ground and is more accurate. The string that I have in my Pb10 mid is Luxilon M2 at 35lbs and my other racquet has Solinco Revolution at 53. Today was the first day that I tested serving with the low tension and my first serve percentage was astonishing. I don't want to give the tension the credit, only because I made an adjustment on my serve. For the time being, I am going to continue using the low tension cause I love it.

Danny, TW

TourTenor
03-31-2010, 02:09 PM
I didn't get a chance to do the hand pull tension test today due to being in meetings and running out of time. However, we do have the video done of me hitting at 10lbs, 30lbs and at 52lbs.

Here it is:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/video/StringTension.html

Cheers,
Chris, TW.
Chris, Thanks for the video and interesting tests. Here are a few questions and comments ...

How were hard first serves at 10 and 30? It sounds like spin is easy and flat is not. Specifically, was first serve directional control an issue for you? If so, it seems that hitting spots in the service box would be tough.

Did your partner react to the 10 and 30 versions differently because he wasn't used to it? I would imagine that it was all new to him and that he would find it more comfortable with some time.

And, how was the string movement at the lower tensions? I really hate moving strings after every point. I would guess that at 10lbs you would have some serious spaghetti issues!

I look forward to hearing more about your experiment. I am also wondering about string longevity. I would think the 10lb version would tend to last the longest however, maybe not ... as there might be more sawing of the strings at the lower tensions???

Cheers.

Pwned
03-31-2010, 02:10 PM
Because of this thread I tried Genesis SpinX at ~38lbs in my POG OS and definitely like it. When I switched back to my other racquet strung at 55 with SpinX the stiffness and lack of power was immediately apparent. I had about 15 straight balls land in the net or short. Even with the softness of SpinX the difference was quite large. No control issues with 38 and my serve was popping nicely. I have been doing well with the low tension and volleys too. Going to go for ~32 next string job. Very little to no string movement. I don't really have to fix them ever.

BTW SpinX rocks.

luishcorreia
03-31-2010, 02:51 PM
Hi.

Just went to trainning today with my 100 sqin vantage frame with my Krishbaum Competition string at 40 lbs. My regular tension is 53lbs.

I liked the added power. I was getting more depth! Just felt like I and a bit less control. I had to try and spin tthe ball more and hit it higher over the net to get it in the court.

I could tell my hitting partner was getting in trouble with the added spin.

I wonder if this is a linear progression...or a curve one! If I drop the string tension more..will I get an increase of power...or is the relation non-linear?

luishcorreia
03-31-2010, 02:55 PM
I just think..this phenomenon is due to most people using syntectic strings.

If we where using poly's..the stringbed with such a low tension with be uncontrolable, right?

I remmeber not long ago a lot of threads on this forum about how to control the Babolat Pure Drive power....

How would you say now about the pure drive with a lively poly string ..strung at 30 lbs? It would be like a cannon, right?

I think we would need to have match play experience and reports on this low tension thing.

One thing is to hit with 20 lbs...another very different is to play a league game with 20 lbs.

Pwned
03-31-2010, 02:59 PM
I just think..this phenomenon is due to most people using syntectic strings.

If we where using poly's..the stringbed with such a low tension with be uncontrolable, right?

I remmeber not long ago a lot of threads on this forum about how to control the Babolat Pure Drive power....

How would you say now about the pure drive with a lively poly string ..strung at 30 lbs? It would be like a cannon, right?

I think we would need to have match play experience and reports on this low tension thing.

One thing is to hit with 20 lbs...another very different is to play a league game with 20 lbs.
Poly strings are usually lower powered....

luishcorreia
03-31-2010, 03:04 PM
Poly strings are usually lower powered....

I mean to say "multi-fillament" ..not polys, sorry. :)

Pwned
03-31-2010, 03:09 PM
I mean to say "multi-fillament" ..not polys, sorry. :)

Im sure they would be too powerful for a majority of people. I quite like the range with the poly I am using.

luishcorreia
03-31-2010, 03:15 PM
Im sure they would be too powerful for a majority of people. I quite like the range with the poly I am using.

Did you tried with a low tension? How did it worked?

ronalditop
03-31-2010, 03:16 PM
I tried Big hitter blue in a pure storm tour 16 x 20 in 54 and 38 lbs. At 38, like previously reported I could really feel the pocketing and got wicked spin. But I actually didn't find it that comfortable. It vibrated like crazy (I dont use dampeners) and while the intial pocketing felt nice it felt like it got to a point where the poly just stopped stretching and then felt kind of harsh. It felt like the stringbed just bottomed out. I do hit the ball pretty hard and with lots of spin so I tried backing off a bit and with a slower swing speed I didn't have that same bottoming out feeling but I can't play like that. I then went to the 54 lb racquet and it just felt soooo much better. It looks like this will be a short experiment for me although I will miss the pop from serving with the tension at 38!

I was also very surprised that there was still lots of control to be had with the low tension. The guys I was hitting with were laughing when I told them about the low tension racquet, but very intrigued with the spin generated and the retained control. But like I said earlier the bottoming out harsness feeling is a deal killer for me...

So you felt the stringbed was harsher at 38lbs rather than at 54 ? That's weird. I'd thought it was the opposite.

Ripper014
03-31-2010, 03:26 PM
Like I said my experience with low tensions have alway revolved around control issues. I have friends that have played low tension all their lives and do it well, the difference is that I play with very fast swing speeds to generate my pace. Control for me has always been what I am looking for... power I have at my disposal.

Prior to returning to tennis from my haitus I was playing with a PS 6.0 85 strung at 72lbs. It provided me with the control I was looking for. Since my return I have switched frames to a PS Tour 90 and have lower my tension slightly to 64lbs using a hybrid of mulit and co-poly. My timing is not what it was... but I am playing a comfortable game.

But like I said... after reading this thread I have been bitten and am looking to see what low tensions may have in store for me. My initial thought is that things have not changed and that this combination is not made for players that rely on fast swing speeds in their games... but I am willing to give it another shot. And I will try hard to approach it with an open mind.

My plan is not to go to an ultra low tension like is being tested here... but a hybrid solution at around 42lbs.

Pwned
03-31-2010, 03:47 PM
Did you tried with a low tension? How did it worked?

With Genesis SpinX it felt great at ~38lbs. Much better than 55.

duffman
03-31-2010, 03:55 PM
So you felt the stringbed was harsher at 38lbs rather than at 54 ? That's weird. I'd thought it was the opposite.

The stringbed was much softer at 38, but I felt like the stringbed stretched to a point where it couldn't stretch anymore which felt like a bottoming out feeling and that was the harshness I was feeling. I would liken it to setting up your suspension on a mtn bike or car too soft. It feels great going over the small bumps but when you hit a big one it blows through the travel and hits the bumpstop and BAM! That is where I was feeling the harshness if that makes any sense...

MayDay
03-31-2010, 04:45 PM
So is poly in 30# range arm friendly? I stayed away from poly due to fear of arm issues.

TW Staff
03-31-2010, 05:13 PM
The experiment continues. Chris hand pulled tension today. Here's his blog:

http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1172

Tiffani, TW

smooveken
03-31-2010, 05:24 PM
I'd like to hear what Spencer has to say about his experience at low tensions with his Pure Storm LTD, please!

corners
03-31-2010, 06:43 PM
Chris, Danny,

I think you guys have established that 30 pounds with poly in a mid is a playable, and for some players, an excellent tension.

Chris noted with surprise that he's seeing little string movement initially even at these low tensions. How about after 5-10 hours of play?

And how about effects of tension loss/string wear over those durations? I would think that with lower starting tensions you'd lose less tension due to creep, or elastic deformation, over time, but I'm not sure. Are you finding that the change in feel/performance due to tensions loss over time is greater or less than with your normal tensions?

Thanks for sharing your great experiment.

samster
03-31-2010, 06:55 PM
Okay, so my racquets sat over the weekend and I took them out again today. I hit with the 10lbs racquet and the 30lbs racquet again, plus one at my regular 52lbs.

Here's my blog from today's hit:
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1167

We shot some video and will try to get it posted soon.

Cheers,
Chris, TW.

This is absolute heresy! :twisted:

nickarnold2000
03-31-2010, 10:39 PM
Chris, Danny,

I think you guys have established that 30 pounds with poly in a mid is a playable, and for some players, an excellent tension.

Chris noted with surprise that he's seeing little string movement initially even at these low tensions. How about after 5-10 hours of play?

And how about effects of tension loss/string wear over those durations? I would think that with lower starting tensions you'd lose less tension due to creep, or elastic deformation, over time, but I'm not sure. Are you finding that the change in feel/performance due to tensions loss over time is greater or less than with your normal tensions?

Thanks for sharing your great experiment.
A good post - I'm also very interested in this. :)

Ripper014
03-31-2010, 11:23 PM
The experiment continues. Chris hand pulled tension today. Here's his blog:

http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1172

Tiffani, TW



The first racket I ever strung was by hand and a dowel back in the mid 70's, I was 15 at the time and had no money but some string I had recovered from a broken racket I had found. So between what string I could recover from racket plus this additional string I was able to complete a string job. Hmm... maybe the first ever hybrid?

Anyway... I just wanted to say that it is easy with a dowel and an awl you can get some decent string tensions. Now getting a consistant tension well that is something else. I personally just tried to do it like tuning a string instrument and plucked each string going by sound. But I was 15 doing the best I could with what I had. And remember no internet back then we were left to our own devices.

Oh and from what I remember the racket played ok.

Ljubicic for number1
04-01-2010, 01:52 AM
The experiment continues. Chris hand pulled tension today. Here's his blog:


Tiffani, TW

That is quiet disturbing, bet he wont be happy you are telling everyone.

TW Professor
04-01-2010, 08:41 AM
Below are some graphs that show how polys might behave at very low tensions compared to what you are used to with any material strung at higher tensions.

First a note about procedure. The data is for all strings we have tested so far, not for a particular string at different tensions. So each dot represents a particular string that was pulled to a particular reference tension (basically, 62, 52, or 42 pounds) and impacted at a particular speed (fast, medium, or slow). Each string sit for a minute after being pulled to tension and then struck 20 times at high speed to break the string in. The pre-impact tension you see on the bottom axis is the actual tension remaining after this preconditioning procedure.

But the lesson is the same in all cases. If you get a poly (any poly) into your racquet such that its pre-impact tension is hovering at whatever low tension you are looking for, it should behave as indicated below relative to other strings and other tensions.

A note of interpretation follows after the graphs (also, please forgive the mixed units, but that is the only way the program can report them at the moment--1 kg = 2.2 lbs--the turquoise dots show the 10 and 30 lb locations).

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/images/board_photos/allKvT.jpghttp://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/images/board_photos/allDwellvT.jpghttp://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/images/board_photos/allDEFvT.jpghttp://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/images/board_photos/allFvT.jpg

The shaded yellow area contains all the strings that the 30 lb poly exceeds in performance for the characteristic on the vertical axis. The blueish area contains all the string the 10 lb poly exceeds in performance for the characteristic on the vertical axis. (In this case, "exceeds" means softer, longer dwell, more deflection, lower force).

So for example, for the 10 lb poly:
Graph 1: it is softer then all most all nylon at tensions you might have tried in the past.
Graph 2: It has a longer dwell than any string at any tension here measured.
Graph 3: It has greater deflection than any string at any tension here measured.
Graph 4: It has a lower impact force than all but one gut.

Remember, no nylons or guts were also tested at these pre-impact tensions because they don't get that low during normal usage during our tests. We would have to actually pull tension to 30 or 10 lbs to get comparisons. But the comparison of importance here is that compared to what you have tried before, you can make poly behave in unexpected ways.

These results should help verify, explain, or interpret many of your experiences above.

fantom
04-01-2010, 09:15 AM
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/images/board_photos/allKvT.jpg

Very interesting stuff!

Isn't the turquoise 10 lb marker (or dot) incorrectly placed on the x-axis on graph 1?

TW Professor
04-01-2010, 09:24 AM
Very interesting stuff!

Isn't the turquoise 10 lb marker (or dot) incorrectly placed on the x-axis on graph 1?

Yes, thank you. It is changed now.

Fed Kennedy
04-01-2010, 10:42 AM
So Prof, for the English majors in the audience...what you are saying is the low tension poly is softer and has more dwell time than anything except gut?

TW Staff
04-01-2010, 11:01 AM
Chris, Danny,

I think you guys have established that 30 pounds with poly in a mid is a playable, and for some players, an excellent tension.

Chris noted with surprise that he's seeing little string movement initially even at these low tensions. How about after 5-10 hours of play?

And how about effects of tension loss/string wear over those durations? I would think that with lower starting tensions you'd lose less tension due to creep, or elastic deformation, over time, but I'm not sure. Are you finding that the change in feel/performance due to tensions loss over time is greater or less than with your normal tensions?

Thanks for sharing your great experiment.

There is noticeably more string movement at 35 lbs vs 52 lbs. Keep in mind that I am using Luxilon M2, which is a co-polyester. If I was using a multifilament string, I am sure the string would be all over the place. I didn't notice much tension less, but I did notice more string wear. I've used Luxilon M2 before, but I never noticed any ball fuzz on the string after testing it and I definitely did not notice the string fraying at 53 lbs, but at 35 lbs I did. I have never had any co-poly string fray on me and I think the ball fuzz and fraying of the string is a sign of how much more spin and dwell time I was experiencing at such a low tension. Also, I am a bigger fan of how the Luxilon M2 string plays at 35 lbs vs 53 lbs. I thought M2 was a responsive and good string for about 6 hours at 53 lbs, but after that 6 hour mark I felt like the string lost power and just became dead feeling. After testing the string for about 12 hours or so at 35 lbs, I haven't noticed any decrease in play with the M2.

Danny, TW

TW Professor
04-01-2010, 11:26 AM
So Prof, for the English majors in the audience...what you are saying is the low tension poly is softer and has more dwell time than anything except gut?

Unless we brought gut and nylon down to those low tensions also.

jrod
04-01-2010, 11:41 AM
Unless we brought gut and nylon down to those low tensions also.


Right...which begs the question: Why focus solely on poly? Are we that confident that poly offers something unique in the lower tension range?

Also, based on Chris' comments it seems like he prefers poly at 30 lbs. Clearly there are other options available that score better than the poly along these dimensions. So is poly offering something else that nylon and gut don't offer here?

What I'm trying to understand what exactly is it about poly at lower tensions that has Chris and others so enamored?

JT_2eighty
04-01-2010, 11:45 AM
Because it is less elastic than nylon or gut to begin with, which allows for lower tensions. Stringing a nylon or gut that low would just lead to very low control setup. Plus the fact that gut and nylon tend to notch easily, and at a 30lb tension in either, you will have ridiculous string movement as well as quicker wear from all that movement (although haven't strung either that low, but considering how they wear around 50lbs... well, I'm not willing to try gut at 30lb, or even a nylon).

Xenakis
04-01-2010, 11:46 AM
Right...which raises the question: Why focus solely on poly? Are we that confident that poly offers something unique in the lower tension range?

Also, based on Chris' comments it seems like he prefers poly at 30 lbs. Clearly there are other options available that score better than the poly along these dimensions. So is poly offering something else that nylon and gut don't offer here?

What I'm trying to understand what exactly is it about poly at lower tensions that has Chris and others so enamored?

[pet hate][sorry][pet hate/][sorry/]

ClubHoUno
04-01-2010, 12:53 PM
There is noticeably more string movement at 35 lbs vs 52 lbs. Keep in mind that I am using Luxilon M2, which is a co-polyester. If I was using a multifilament string, I am sure the string would be all over the place. I didn't notice much tension less, but I did notice more string wear. I've used Luxilon M2 before, but I never noticed any ball fuzz on the string after testing it and I definitely did not notice the string fraying at 53 lbs, but at 35 lbs I did. I have never had any co-poly string fray on me and I think the ball fuzz and fraying of the string is a sign of how much more spin and dwell time I was experiencing at such a low tension. Also, I am a bigger fan of how the Luxilon M2 string plays at 35 lbs vs 53 lbs. I thought M2 was a responsive and good string for about 6 hours at 53 lbs, but after that 6 hour mark I felt like the string lost power and just became dead feeling. After testing the string for about 12 hours or so at 35 lbs, I haven't noticed any decrease in play with the M2.

Danny, TW

Danny, are you using Luxilon M2 Plus or M2 Pro ?

Can we conclude - based on you the TW playtesters experience and the TW Professors calculations, that most (if not all) poly's will lose less tension and less elasticity, when strung at low tension (less than 50 lbs) compared to when the poly is strung at normal higher tension (55-60 lbs) ?

2handsbothsides
04-01-2010, 01:07 PM
I want to thank you Chris and Danny for this most stimulating post. It prompted me to try some lower tensions and I will report my results from yesterdays on court hit. The lower tension setups I tried are all synthetic gut 16 gauge, one at 35 lbs and one at 45 lbs.

First it should be noted that I am in my late 50's but still produce solid 4.5 level hitting and have had previous wrist and elbow issues. My standard set up is a performance multi main and synthetic gut cross at 50 lbs in a 16x18 prince graphite longbody with lead. This setup provides high power with some trampolining yet lots of touch and loads of spin on demand. I stopped using polys about 5 years ago at the first sign of bodily harm.

First the 45 pounder. Immediately felt much softer, more spin but less control than my normal setup. Nothing solid about this setup and almost had more vibration than normal. I clearly was not hitting as well as normal and I felt it was not a matter of learning to acclimate to this setup.

Next the 35 pounder. Incredibly soft, no sound when hitting. The vibration at 45 was completely gone. I was quite surprised that the power level did not increase at all. The problem was that the accurate sweet spot became tiny. Anything even slightly hit off center would leave at a bit of an unpredictable angle. My hitting partner hits huge serves and I pride myself on my 2 handed return game, but there was no controlling those bombs with this setup. Overall this was way too mushy a setup for me.

So the low tension thing with synthetic gut clearly didn't work for me. I guess I should try poly once again at 30 lbs if you think its safe. Do I dare do a full poly job with my sensitive arms or should I hybrid a poly main with a softer syn gut cross?

Xenakis
04-01-2010, 01:15 PM
I want to thank you Chris and Danny for this most stimulating post. It prompted me to try some lower tensions and I will report my results from yesterdays on court hit. The lower tension setups I tried are all synthetic gut 16 gauge, one at 35 lbs and one at 45 lbs.

First it should be noted that I am in my late 50's but still produce solid 4.5 level hitting and have had previous wrist and elbow issues. My standard set up is a performance multi main and synthetic gut cross at 50 lbs in a 16x18 prince graphite longbody with lead. This setup provides high power with some trampolining yet lots of touch and loads of spin on demand. I stopped using polys about 5 years ago at the first sign of bodily harm.

First the 45 pounder. Immediately felt much softer, more spin but less control than my normal setup. Nothing solid about this setup and almost had more vibration than normal. I clearly was not hitting as well as normal and I felt it was not a matter of learning to acclimate to this setup.

Next the 35 pounder. Incredibly soft, no sound when hitting. The vibration at 45 was completely gone. I was quite surprised that the power level did not increase at all. The problem was that the accurate sweet spot became tiny. Anything even slightly hit off center would leave at a bit of an unpredictable angle. My hitting partner hits huge serves and I pride myself on my 2 handed return game, but there was no controlling those bombs with this setup. Overall this was way too mushy a setup for me.

So the low tension thing with synthetic gut clearly didn't work for me. I guess I should try poly once again at 30 lbs if you think its safe. Do I dare do a full poly job with my sensitive arms or should I hybrid a poly main with a softer syn gut cross?

Try a softer co-poly at 30 and see what you think (Black Code perhaps.) Personally I think softer co-polys like Black Code are more comfortable in a full bed than a full bed of PSGD or other syn guts. Just make sure you cut it out before it goes dead (this is arguably where the problems occur, that and stringing polys at a really high tension.)

At 30lbs it should be fine and if you feel a twinge just stop playing with it.

ClubHoUno
04-01-2010, 01:39 PM
Mr. TW Professor - I wonder if you and your excellent TW Staff test team have been speculating over how hybrids of a soft string (nat gut or prime multi) and a stiff string (CoPoly or Kevlar) would play, behave and feel at low tension levels ?

Now that you have carried the experiment out with full stiff poly with such good results and positive response, the next step could be to conduct a test of how hybrids strings play at low tension.

Of course not as low tension levels as with full stiff poly, but maybe conduct an experiment on hybrids strung in the low 40's and mid 30's - with the poly string at the lowest tension in the hybrid and the softer string 3-5 lbs higher in tension.

We already see Roger Federer using pretty low tension in his 90 SQ" 16x19 frame with Wilson nat gut mains @ 52 lbs and Luxilon Alu Rough crosses @ 48 lbs.
Hybrids of a soft main (or cross) string and a stiffer cross (or main) string is quite popular on the this board and also very popular out on tour (Murray, Federer, Djokovic, Cilic, Hass, Roddick, Wozniacki etc.)

So are you and your test team up for the next challenge - low tension test of hybrid setups :D

Shangri La
04-01-2010, 01:42 PM
There is noticeably more string movement at 35 lbs vs 52 lbs. Keep in mind that I am using Luxilon M2, which is a co-polyester. If I was using a multifilament string, I am sure the string would be all over the place. I didn't notice much tension less, but I did notice more string wear. I've used Luxilon M2 before, but I never noticed any ball fuzz on the string after testing it and I definitely did not notice the string fraying at 53 lbs, but at 35 lbs I did. I have never had any co-poly string fray on me and I think the ball fuzz and fraying of the string is a sign of how much more spin and dwell time I was experiencing at such a low tension. Also, I am a bigger fan of how the Luxilon M2 string plays at 35 lbs vs 53 lbs. I thought M2 was a responsive and good string for about 6 hours at 53 lbs, but after that 6 hour mark I felt like the string lost power and just became dead feeling. After testing the string for about 12 hours or so at 35 lbs, I haven't noticed any decrease in play with the M2.

Danny, TW

These are very interesting observations. One would think since more ware is put on the string at 35lbs, it would loss its elasticity/playability and become dead faster, no?

ronalditop
04-01-2010, 02:13 PM
When using these extremely low tensions, would you say there is a bigger chance to mishit a shot than when using higher tensions? I ask this because with this low tensions there is more dwell time, so the ball stays on the strings longer, which may lead to the ball sliding on the strings and hitting the sides of the frame.

defrule
04-01-2010, 02:26 PM
I think the idea is that the string cup around the ball more instead of the ball slide on the string bed.

defrule
04-01-2010, 02:27 PM
I would string my n6.1 at 30 sometimes using blackcode when i have opportunity.

Fed Kennedy
04-01-2010, 02:56 PM
In the past I have tried multi and syn gut in the 40s on a k90. The syn gut played much better. I had great spin and a lot of the benefits chris was talking about. But, the string splayed everywhere and snapped after a couple hours which is fast for me.
Thanks to chris' post I tried 30lbs alu power in a blx pro tour mp and my results were very similar to his. I will update how it holds up but so far it is notching much faster than normal.

CallOfBooty
04-01-2010, 05:40 PM
I'm a competitive junior player (3.5-4.0) and I just went out today to try some Hyperion 1.18 at 30 in a stock K Six-One 18x20. I had some very successful results.

Groundstrokes - My groundstrokes were very consistent today. I did not hold back my strokes one bit, and my shots were getting good arc with all the topspin. In fact, I was getting so much confidence from all the spin that I was actually swinging faster than usual and the ball would still land in. My two-handed backhand was definitely a lot better today. Way more depth and spin, and I pulled off some crazy angles that I thought only a one-handed backhand could. I will be honest, I'm not a fan of slicing. I did get pulled out wide a few times, and my slices were average. Not much to comment about the slices since I don't do that shot much.

Serves - My serves were VERY inconsistent based on performance. One game I bombed four first serves. Next I would hit all second serves. First serve I had some trouble. Seemed to me that the ball would either sail long or too much to the left -- I'm a right-handed. Second serve was normal. I noticed some more kick and action on it. Slice serves had a lot of spin and were really pulled out wide. I tried one or two twist serves, and although the spin was not amazing, the angles were. They were really pulled wide.

Volleys and Touch Shots - Against fast paced shots, volleys were hard to control. I did not groove in volleys today. However, when I played a soft-baller later in the day, I was volleying fine. Drop shots were amazing. I usually don't do them at all. Today, I had some fun with them.

A little weird thing that I noticed, as did Chris, was that I noticed more fraying, more notching, and more fuzz on the strings.

This is all coming from someone who is NOT SENSITIVE at all to string or racket changes! I really did notice a change in my shots by stringing at 30 pounds. It really cannot hurt to just try stringing at 30, I am definitely switching to 30 pounds as my regular co-poly tension.

Dominik
04-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Is this TW Professor a real professor? Or something like the Wizard of Oz?

corners
04-01-2010, 07:01 PM
There is noticeably more string movement at 35 lbs vs 52 lbs. Keep in mind that I am using Luxilon M2, which is a co-polyester. If I was using a multifilament string, I am sure the string would be all over the place. I didn't notice much tension less, but I did notice more string wear. I've used Luxilon M2 before, but I never noticed any ball fuzz on the string after testing it and I definitely did not notice the string fraying at 53 lbs, but at 35 lbs I did. I have never had any co-poly string fray on me and I think the ball fuzz and fraying of the string is a sign of how much more spin and dwell time I was experiencing at such a low tension. Also, I am a bigger fan of how the Luxilon M2 string plays at 35 lbs vs 53 lbs. I thought M2 was a responsive and good string for about 6 hours at 53 lbs, but after that 6 hour mark I felt like the string lost power and just became dead feeling. After testing the string for about 12 hours or so at 35 lbs, I haven't noticed any decrease in play with the M2.

Danny, TW

Thanks for the info Danny

corners
04-01-2010, 07:02 PM
Is this TW Professor a real professor? Or something like the Wizard of Oz?

Both........

corners
04-01-2010, 07:08 PM
Below are some graphs that show how polys might behave at very low tensions compared to what you are used to with any material strung at higher tensions.


Many thanks for this info Prof - all things are now lain bare:)

In relation to Tennis Warehouse you're now becoming the veritable definition of value-added, for me at least.

Audiophile
04-01-2010, 08:26 PM
Well, even though I've been stringing around 50 lbs. +/- 5 lbs. for years, I decided I would give 30 a try after reading this thread. Here is my experience:

Dunlop Max 200g - Custom weighted 14.5 oz, 9 pts. head light. Strung with Luxilon Adrenaline, 30 lbs. 5.0 level player.

Played 2 sets of competitive doubles this evening. Unfortunately, 30 lbs. is just not for me. I found it very difficult to control my shots, especially service return. My serve was very inconsistent, flat, kick, or slice. I did not notice any additional spin as some here have indicated. Groundstrokes were ok just hitting, but in a match taking a full cut at the ball, I was all over the place. I switched back to my 47 lbs. and after a game had things dialed back in. Serves much more consistent and could control the service return again.

Maybe the loose tension works well for many, just not for me.

However, I still find it interesting and will continue to follow the experience of others.

Best of luck.

Bud
04-01-2010, 08:51 PM
FYI... Big Hitter Blue at 40# stinks. No control and no power. Cutting it out and trying a stiffer poly at low tension.

Well, even though I've been stringing around 50 lbs. +/- 5 lbs. for years, I decided I would give 30 a try after reading this thread. Here is my experience:

Dunlop Max 200g - Custom weighted 14.5 oz, 9 pts. head light. Strung with Luxilon Adrenaline, 30 lbs. 5.0 level player.

Played 2 sets of competitive doubles this evening. Unfortunately, 30 lbs. is just not for me. I found it very difficult to control my shots, especially service return. My serve was very inconsistent, flat, kick, or slice. I did not notice any additional spin as some here have indicated. Groundstrokes were ok just hitting, but in a match taking a full cut at the ball, I was all over the place. I switched back to my 47 lbs. and after a game had things dialed back in. Serves much more consistent and could control the service return again.

Maybe the loose tension works well for many, just not for me.

However, I still find it interesting and will continue to follow the experience of others.

Best of luck.

This virtually mirrors my experience with Big Hitter Blue at 40#

When I switched back to my frame with Global Gut mains/Black Magic crosses... it was like heaven. All of a sudden my shots had pop and control, again.

[d]ragon
04-01-2010, 09:31 PM
Does anyone feel like the lower tension makes teh feel stringbed feel too soft? I want to try a full poly but might not if it makes it feel too soft because I like my stringbed on the crisper side.

schenkelini
04-01-2010, 09:32 PM
I hit tonight with Blue Gear 17g 30lbs in a Prokennex 5g. Everything worked great. I could switch back and forth between that and my Ki15 PSE hybrid with out much adjustment. The 30 pounder had amazing spin. Serves had a little less pop, but lots of spin, weird spin. I can only imagine what it will be like in a match. I play doubles Tuesday night. I can't wait!

dancraig
04-01-2010, 10:36 PM
As I type, I have two racquets here waiting to be strung at 35 pounds. They are for an old, local pro. He credits the low tension for him never having any arm problems. I have been stringing them like this, for him, for many years.

rlee7777
04-02-2010, 05:57 AM
I tried one of my RDS 001 Mids with Premier Ace at 32 lbs. Nice muted feel and indeed, I noticed higher arcing shots. However a huge loss of directional control. Groundstrokes were less noticeable because of the greater margin of error (and spin). But, as others note, I lost consistency on serves and reflex volleys were tough to place. Coming from my normal control hybrid - WC SS 1.20 mains / Forten Sweet crosses -- the loss of control was very apparent.

Fun as an experiment, but IMO not for match play.

galain
04-02-2010, 08:38 AM
I've been trying various poly's for the last year, after reading and hearing about how much innovation they've brought to the game, and after seeing so many people around me switch. So far, no good. I'm currently playing Tornado, which I don't mind, but I still prefer the feel of a syn gut or a multi. I have one pack of SPPP left, sitting on the shelf and was wondering what to do with it. Sounds like this might be worth a try.

Thanks to all for the responses and please keep posting your experiences.

MayDay
04-02-2010, 10:44 AM
Is this TW Professor a real professor? Or something like the Wizard of Oz?

Some say, he is The Stig on Top Gear.

Jack & Coke
04-02-2010, 10:53 AM
For these super low tension set-ups, which gauges are you guys experimenting with?

schenkelini
04-02-2010, 11:03 AM
I tried 17g Blue Gear. Good results.

stingstang
04-02-2010, 12:12 PM
got my k95 back with SPPP 1.23 at 35lbs. just tapping a ball to the door it feels really really soft! hoping it plays with the softness/touch of a multi and the bite of the poly. I can dream anyway, can't wait to give it a go :)

TW Staff
04-02-2010, 01:32 PM
Tried something new today: Kirschbaum Long Life (Spiky 1.38mm) at 35lbs in a Volkl C10 Pro. The C10 Pro has always been a silky smooth playing racquet, but today, wow, the racquet was incredibly smooth with this set up.

Note: We do not currently carry that string, but I will recommend we bring it in.

I was finding excellent control, lots of spin and just really enjoying the racquet. Lots of penetration on serves and some nice hop on spin serves. Off the ground I was really enjoying the feel and all the spin I was getting.

I was going to take the last two days off to rest my body as I was starting to feel tight and tired from all the testing of late. Managed to play through it and was feeling pretty loose today!

Cheers,
Chris, TW

DennisK
04-03-2010, 04:08 AM
Well taken the plunge and strung up my RDX500 MP with full SPPP 1.18 at 32lbs this morning.

Would have strung at 30lbs, but my machine is a crank lock-out to upped it a couple of pounds.

I hit the courts in a couple of hours. Looking forward to seeing the results.

Meaghan
04-04-2010, 05:28 AM
Just had a couple of hours with my Mantis power at 32lbs and all i can say is f*****g WOW.

The improvement i had when moving from 55 to 45 is relatively the same again from 45 to 32. I have to say the control element is excellent, infact its amazing. I was hitting bombs from the back, loads of topspin but what impressed most was the consistent depth. It suited my swing and extreme grips. I also noticed the higher trajectory hitting from the baseline, i liked that when im hitting out as i can sometimes net it hitting at the top of the bounce. I wasnt doing that with the higher trajectory off the racket.
The touch was great too, real soft and lush.
My serve was the pretty much the same but i did notice a few extra mph on the heater.
One downside was volleying but i think once adjusted......

If i was a flat hitter then id stay away but if you hit with plenty of topspin I think you will deffo like the control and power you get with this tension.

Unbelievable, very happy boy.........:)

ps...cant wait to try this with full Alu.

drak
04-04-2010, 03:59 PM
Just had a couple of hours with my Mantis power at 32lbs and all i can say is f*****g WOW.

The improvement i had when moving from 55 to 45 is relatively the same again from 45 to 32. I have to say the control element is excellent, infact its amazing. I was hitting bombs from the back, loads of topspin but what impressed most was the consistent depth. It suited my swing and extreme grips. I also noticed the higher trajectory hitting from the baseline, i liked that when im hitting out as i can sometimes net it hitting at the top of the bounce. I wasnt doing that with the higher trajectory off the racket.
The touch was great too, real soft and lush.
My serve was the pretty much the same but i did notice a few extra mph on the heater.
One downside was volleying but i think once adjusted......

If i was a flat hitter then id stay away but if you hit with plenty of topspin I think you will deffo like the control and power you get with this tension.

Unbelievable, very happy boy.........:)

ps...cant wait to try this with full Alu.

I'll have to string up one of my PB9's and give this a try, maybe a full Poly like Cyberflash or Kirsh Comp at 30-35lbs, anyone try either string yet at low tensions? I have some leftover reels left.

Drak

drak
04-04-2010, 04:01 PM
By the way, does this low tension significantly expand the sweetspot? I am very curious about that. I would also think the frame would be more comfortable and more forgiving of off center hits - experiences please?

beststringer
04-04-2010, 04:09 PM
By the way, does this low tension significantly expand the sweetspot? I am very curious about that. I would also think the frame would be more comfortable and more forgiving of off center hits - experiences please?

it does make the sweetspot bigger and makes it more comfortable vs. higher tensions. e.g. 30lbs vs 60lbs with the same poly. in fact, i could not swing hard with 60 poly mains and syn gut crosses w/o feeling it in the elbow/wrist. but at 30lbs, i can play forhours and hit really hard. for me, the problem is serve. i need to figure out how to contorl serves at 30lbs.

ground strokes, no problems. volleys, no problems.

Ripper014
04-04-2010, 05:19 PM
Ok... restrung one of my rackets with a Gamma Revelation 17 in the mains and Gosen Polylon Ice 17 in the crosses at 38lbs. I can say... I don't hate it, but I have control issues with it. Though it is better than playing with regular strings at low tensions... it not a replacement for my normally more conventionally strung frames. I for one will stick with my normal setups.

I play with fast swing speeds and the ball just stays on the racket too long. I find myself carrying the ball out of the court on every swing.

Xenakis
04-04-2010, 06:08 PM
Call me crazy but I strung up with Vantage with some RIP Control 16 at 30lbs earlier this evening. Will see how it plays tomorrow.

stoble
04-04-2010, 06:18 PM
Call me crazy but I strung up with Vantage with some RIP Control 16 at 30lbs earlier this evening. Will see how it plays tomorrow.

Isn't that a multi?

Xenakis
04-04-2010, 06:23 PM
Isn't that a multi?

That's right. It's a bold move I like to think. Quite a special low power multi that plays a bit like a poly in my opinion though. Lasts ages too.

2handsbothsides
04-04-2010, 07:29 PM
Call me crazy but I strung up with Vantage with some RIP Control 16 at 30lbs earlier this evening. Will see how it plays tomorrow.

I predict a feeling like rubber bands.

Ljubicic for number1
04-04-2010, 07:56 PM
I'll have to string up one of my PB9's and give this a try, maybe a full Poly like Cyberflash or Kirsh Comp at 30-35lbs, anyone try either string yet at low tensions? I have some leftover reels left.

Drak


Just strung one of my exo3 rebels with cyberflash @ 30lbs, yet to hit.

GoDawgs2011
04-04-2010, 08:08 PM
I'll join the party.

Just strung up my leaded Yonex RDS 003 with Spiky Shark 17 at 35 lbs. I should have a review by Tuesday.

hescobal
04-04-2010, 08:22 PM
I'm liking these low tensions. Lowest so far for me is 34/32 of 18 msv hex in an AG100. Slices are great and lots of top spin on my fh and bh!

(K)evin
04-04-2010, 11:45 PM
Tried something new today: Kirschbaum Long Life (Spiky 1.38mm) at 35lbs in a Volkl C10 Pro. The C10 Pro has always been a silky smooth playing racquet, but today, wow, the racquet was incredibly smooth with this set up.

Note: We do not currently carry that string, but I will recommend we bring it in.

I was finding excellent control, lots of spin and just really enjoying the racquet. Lots of penetration on serves and some nice hop on spin serves. Off the ground I was really enjoying the feel and all the spin I was getting.

I was going to take the last two days off to rest my body as I was starting to feel tight and tired from all the testing of late. Managed to play through it and was feeling pretty loose today!

Cheers,
Chris, TW

recommend genesis too! I don't like buying from other places other than TW it's weird

Bud
04-04-2010, 11:52 PM
Call me crazy but I strung up with Vantage with some RIP Control 16 at 30lbs earlier this evening. Will see how it plays tomorrow.

Isn't that a multi?

That's right. It's a bold move I like to think. Quite a special low power multi that plays a bit like a poly in my opinion though. Lasts ages too.
I predict a feeling like rubber bands.

Yeah... predict you won't like it too much :)

Do you really think RIP Control plays like a poly? I thought it played like a mushy multi.

Ljubicic for number1
04-05-2010, 02:38 AM
Had a hit with the low tension this afternoon,

Normal set up:
Prince Exo3 Rebel
Port inserts
5gms at 12 o'clock
Full big ace micro 50lbs

Test set up:
Prince Exo3 Rebel
Port inserts
5gms at 12 o'clock
Full cyberflash at 30lbs

I decided to go with cyberflash instead of BAM as I thought the micro would be too soft and springy.

First thoughts just rallying were its very comfortable, not over powered and not really that different from my normal set up. I did notice that when I used the low tension my hitting partners consistency went down and he started mishitting balls and making unforced errors.

After 15-20 minutes of warming up we decided to play some first to elevens in which I was rotating from normal set up to low tension stick.

During playing actual points I found the low tension to serve very well, I could get effortless power on first serves and good spin on 2nd serve.

Return of serves were inconsistent and hard to control, I hit the back fence on the full on about 4 occasions:evil:

Topspin was not really any different from my point of view but my opponent informs me that he was having to make contact much higher as my ball had bigger bite.

Slice shots were a little better with more penetration and skidding lower off the court.

All up I lost some confidence with the lower tension and didn't really find any large improvements anywhere. I might give one of my other rebels a go with blue gear at low tension and will try the cyberflash a bit further.

IceNineTX
04-05-2010, 04:27 AM
For kicks, I strung one of my MG Extreme Pros up with CF 17L @ 32lb. I will be taking it for a spin this afternoon.

Meaghan
04-05-2010, 05:56 AM
Had a hit with the low tension this afternoon,

Normal set up:
Prince Exo3 Rebel
Port inserts
5gms at 12 o'clock
Full big ace micro 50lbs

Test set up:
Prince Exo3 Rebel
Port inserts
5gms at 12 o'clock
Full cyberflash at 30lbs

I decided to go with cyberflash instead of BAM as I thought the micro would be too soft and springy.

First thoughts just rallying were its very comfortable, not over powered and not really that different from my normal set up. I did notice that when I used the low tension my hitting partners consistency went down and he started mishitting balls and making unforced errors.

After 15-20 minutes of warming up we decided to play some first to elevens in which I was rotating from normal set up to low tension stick.

During playing actual points I found the low tension to serve very well, I could get effortless power on first serves and good spin on 2nd serve.

Return of serves were inconsistent and hard to control, I hit the back fence on the full on about 4 occasions:evil:

Topspin was not really any different from my point of view but my opponent informs me that he was having to make contact much higher as my ball had bigger bite.

Slice shots were a little better with more penetration and skidding lower off the court.

All up I lost some confidence with the lower tension and didn't really find any large improvements anywhere. I might give one of my other rebels a go with blue gear at low tension and will try the cyberflash a bit further.

Intersting last statement Ljub especially after what you have written above. I generally had the same playtest. My problem was volleying and not return of serve but as everything else felt like it improved to a small degree I will stick at it and work on the volleying.

What is cyberflash like ?? I used Mantis which is a really nice stiff-ish string which i think complements the low tension.

Ljubicic for number1
04-05-2010, 06:06 AM
Intersting last statement Ljub especially after what you have written above. I generally had the same playtest. My problem was volleying and not return of serve but as everything else felt like it improved to a small degree I will stick at it and work on the volleying.

What is cyberflash like ?? I used Mantis which is a really nice stiff-ish string which i think complements the low tension.


Yeah I found some advantages here and there but overall not enough to outweigh the service return issues and a few balls flying here and there. I haven't given up on it though (early days) plus the fact I have bad tennis elbow and cant test as thoroughly as I would like.

Cyberflash is a great string which used to be refereed to as a soft poly but is now quiet stiff in comparison to all the new softies out there.

Xenakis
04-05-2010, 06:34 AM
Yeah... predict you won't like it too much :)

Do you really think RIP Control plays like a poly? I thought it played like a mushy multi.

It's the best multi I've used out of TF BiPhase X1, Bab Xcel, Yonex 850, Wilson Sensation, Wilson NXT Tour, and some cheaper ones like Pros Pro Hi-Tec Multifiber.

It's definitely got that control element that the above expensive soft polys lack. It's crisper, not as much as fresh poly but pretty good. And it seems to last for ages as the string stays slippery instead of going brittle (as you often see with factory installed Wilson Sensation on racquets that haven't been restrung since new, not nice.)

Only downside is you have to straighten the strings a fair bit as they slide over one another rather than stay in place/notch into one another.

Fine by me.

UCSF2012
04-05-2010, 10:10 AM
Tried something new today: Kirschbaum Long Life (Spiky 1.38mm) at 35lbs in a Volkl C10 Pro. The C10 Pro has always been a silky smooth playing racquet, but today, wow, the racquet was incredibly smooth with this set up.

Note: We do not currently carry that string, but I will recommend we bring it in.

I was finding excellent control, lots of spin and just really enjoying the racquet. Lots of penetration on serves and some nice hop on spin serves. Off the ground I was really enjoying the feel and all the spin I was getting.

I was going to take the last two days off to rest my body as I was starting to feel tight and tired from all the testing of late. Managed to play through it and was feeling pretty loose today!

Cheers,
Chris, TW

Can we ask that you try out the full tension range? I'd love to hear your opinions on it. You've done 10, 30, 50-something, but you havn't done about 40. Perhaps there's an optimal tension somewhere in the 20-50 range where you get the increased kick without the loss of placement.

Perhaps, TW (TW prof) could measure the ball resiliancy with different string tensions, in search of the optimal tension. Granted, it'll be different for different strings, players, etc but it'd give us all a guideline.

I had a K90 strung up at 35 with Signum Pro Poly Plasma, and the increase in kick was comparable to changing to the next lower guage string. I'm undecided on control issues.

svlin
04-05-2010, 10:16 AM
Call me crazy but I strung up with Vantage with some RIP Control 16 at 30lbs earlier this evening. Will see how it plays tomorrow.

I would love to hear how this plays...

ronalditop
04-05-2010, 10:34 AM
This low tensions work great with very low powered racquets or racquets that have great control. For example, I have two racquets, in one of them I use 45 lbs and on the other 50lbs. Both racquets have about the same power, but the 45lbs one feels softer.

drak
04-05-2010, 10:36 AM
I would love to hear how this plays...

just strung my PB9 at 32 with full Cyberflash and will hit in a few hrs, will report back later today.

Drak

jelle v
04-05-2010, 12:04 PM
I wanna try this out..

I have 2 strings at my disposal:

1) Kirschbaum SuperSmash Spiky 1.20mm

2) Toalson Cyberblade Tour Thermaxe 1.23mm

Thinking of a 34/36lbs set up..

Which string is the best for this experiment??

JT_2eighty
04-05-2010, 12:14 PM
That's right. It's a bold move I like to think. Quite a special low power multi that plays a bit like a poly in my opinion though. Lasts ages too.

Interested to hear your thoughts. I've used RIP intellitour only, which looks to be similar to rip control, and strung at 52 it lasted over 18 hours and played nicely throughout. Even towards the end it started to really soften up but I never lost the pinpoint accuracy it had when fresh. I would estimate it was at least in the low 40s by the end of it's life, so would be curious how the other rip string feels to start that low. The rip tour is soft like multi with control like a poly. In a category of its own.

That said I've strung up some pro hurr 18 (normal) at 28 lbs to try tomorrow. Have always been a fan of the lower tension ranges, can't wait to see!

William Bedford
04-05-2010, 12:28 PM
I felt compelled to try some low tension poly in one of my AG100's. I usually use Pacific Poly Force Original as a cross with Kgut or Gut mains.

I tried a set of full Poly Force 17 at 42 lbs on the main and 40 on the cross. Spin was crazy, and comfort is really good considering the PFO is one of the stiffest poly strings out there. Feel is not the same as with Kgut or Gut mains, but I have to say the control is insane.

You guys may be on to something...

martini1
04-05-2010, 12:36 PM
So at 20-30 lb range do the strings (poly) keep the tension longer or shorter, say vs 50-60lb range?

Do u need to adjust the string position often as if you are playing with syn gut or something?

I am not ready to go that low yet but next time I am going to sting my K88 and K90 at the hi 40's range. Must be a great soft touch feeling! I got 52lb on an APDC now and it is great!

Meaghan
04-05-2010, 12:39 PM
HAd LTA comp today and struggled with the low tension. It was a doubles match and my second serve was a struggle. This is not necessarily a tension thing but maybe due to a change in string as i usually get loads of grip with Alu.

Yesterday i felt really comfortable with the low tension in my singles match and will continue with it tmoro. Probably due to getting into a rythym quicker in singles and feeling less restricted.

Ross K
04-05-2010, 12:49 PM
This low tensions work great with very low powered racquets or racquets that have great control. For example, I have two racquets, in one of them I use 45 lbs and on the other 50lbs. Both racquets have about the same power, but the 45lbs one feels softer.

So would this low tension thing therefore work in a PT630?...

What strings would ppl advise for a low tension string-job too in the PT630?

And how low a tension?

Thanks,

R.

JT_2eighty
04-05-2010, 12:59 PM
^^^The assumption is yes. But not sure if any other PT630er has tried. I have a match tomorrow, and strung up my PT with PH18 at 28lbs to see (one of the most elastic polys out there, so I'm going for extremes). I'll let you know tues night. I've been using this stick for about 15 years, give or take, so I think I'll have a decent gauge on comparisons.

drak
04-05-2010, 02:30 PM
How interesting, just got done with a long hit and then played a set of singles with PB9 at 32 with Cyberflash. I don't know where to begin, first thought is PLUSH feeling bigger sweetspot, this guy I played hits huge and I never had any shock or vibration. What a nice soft feeling when hitting but control was just as good with my 58lb norm, I switched frames a few times and my hitting partner said my ball with the soft strings definitely had more zip. It was really hard mentally telling myself to really hit out, but I hit no more balls long than normal and overall depth and spin were better, slices were solid.
I really thought there was little adjustment, way less than I thought there might be. I actually served a little better than normal and no adjustments at all there, volleys were no problem, returns were fine. Overheads were better - larger sweetspot.
Here's the deal for me, if I play the same or better with these soft strings its a big time plus for a 54 yr old 4.5 who had major rotator cuff surgery 14 months ago - the comfort is fantastic!
Much more play and experimentation lies ahead for me, especially as I have a bunch of old Poly lying around. But this really is a huge surprise that I played as well or better the first time out with a racket strung at 32 lbs! Note that I also play at 3600 ft altitude and control was just fine - very good topspin.

Drak

drak
04-05-2010, 02:40 PM
Further thoughts. I wonder how the low tension works in different head sizes: 90-95-98-100-105-110? I have a feeling more low string tension benefits might go to the smaller head sizes because of increased sweetspot and less mishits perhaps - just a guess. Be interested to hear replies from those with low 90's or 105 or 110 head sizes.

Drak

alexmcnab
04-05-2010, 02:44 PM
I too have nothing to report back but good from my knock....put MSV in a BLX 95 @ 30lbs. Got good depth and spin and felt pretty comfy too. Anyone tried synthetic gut @ 30?

drak
04-05-2010, 02:59 PM
Here's what might be an ironic twist if this low tension Poly thing becomes a craze - the cheap old stiff Poly strings may very well work just as well or better than all the spendy new softer CoPoly's, wouldn't that be a hoot.

Drak

corners
04-05-2010, 07:43 PM
Here's what might be an ironic twist if this low tension Poly thing becomes a craze - the cheap old stiff Poly strings may very well work just as well or better than all the spendy new softer CoPoly's, wouldn't that be a hoot.

Drak

Yeah, I had the same thought, especially as some of the old ones are the most durable and best at tension maintenance.

(K)evin
04-05-2010, 08:13 PM
alright just got my set of adrenaline and wanna try this on my k90 give me a tension I should try. I usually do 50 lbs with luxilon alu rough.

drgreenthumb
04-05-2010, 08:51 PM
I have a stringer and I had the pleasure of modding my rackets (Babolat APD non-cortex) with varying tensions, strings, strings gauges, weights, weight positions, weight balance, etc...

I agree with a lot that certain rackets will feel "alright" at 40ish tension BUt this can depend on other factors too besides just tension.

Im usually 55-50mins and 47-53 cross. The APD with BB rough or original for example will vibrate at <45lbs paired with a <45cross than Ksix one tour 90 or 95 with the same string configuration.

You'll just have to do a lot of experimentation to find the sweet spot.

Fed Kennedy
04-05-2010, 10:04 PM
Hey corners, what are some of those old school polys with good tension holding you are speaking of?

thebuffman
04-05-2010, 11:29 PM
i went ahead and strung up my prestige pro with global gut @ 48# (main) and ALU BB @ 44# (cross). i plan to hit tomorrow and will let everyone know how it plays. my normal setup is 57# global gut full bed or global gut (or gaucho gut) & OG Micro Sheep cross.

Ross K
04-06-2010, 01:26 AM
^^^The assumption is yes. But not sure if any other PT630er has tried. I have a match tomorrow, and strung up my PT with PH18 at 28lbs to see (one of the most elastic polys out there, so I'm going for extremes). I'll let you know tues night. I've been using this stick for about 15 years, give or take, so I think I'll have a decent gauge on comparisons.

JT, look forward to that!

R.

drak
04-06-2010, 05:00 AM
i went ahead and strung up my prestige pro with global gut @ 48# (main) and ALU BB @ 44# (cross). i plan to hit tomorrow and will let everyone know how it plays. my normal setup is 57# global gut full bed or global gut (or gaucho gut) & OG Micro Sheep cross.

My guess here is 44 or 47 is not low enough and you'll get more of a trampoline effect as opposed to the control many of us are getting at 30-35, again just my guess. Hopefully over the next several weeks as folks experiment we'll find a general tension range where the benefits of very low tension is maximized.

Meaghan
04-06-2010, 06:53 AM
My guess here is 44 or 47 is not low enough and you'll get more of a trampoline effect as opposed to the control many of us are getting at 30-35, again just my guess. Hopefully over the next several weeks as folks experiment we'll find a general tension range where the benefits of very low tension is maximized.

This is what I found with a softer, more elastic poly like Polystar Energy. Just had a hit with it at 35lbs and i had much better control than at 45lbs. Im stringing up Alu and wil see what thats like at 32lbs, really looking forward to seeing how Alu plays at this tension as it has the best spin/power/control ratio at my usual 45lbs of any string ive played.

drak
04-06-2010, 07:01 AM
This is what I found with a softer, more elastic poly like Polystar Energy. Just had a hit with it at 35lbs and i had much better control than at 45lbs. Im stringing up Alu and wil see what thats like at 32lbs, really looking forward to seeing how Alu plays at this tension as it has the best spin/power/control ratio at my usual 45lbs of any string ive played.

Great feedback and thanks, this will help us find tension levels where different strings perform better. The Cyberflash at 32 worked very well for me, I think I have some stiff Pacific Poly force around and I may try that in my other frame.

Drak

TearSNFX
04-06-2010, 07:26 AM
I developed SEVERE carpel tunnel at 20 and 30.

Whole palm was tingling and it was difficult making a fist after 5 minutes of hitting. Obviously the vibration is doing something.

I don't recommend this for people with repetitive stress syndromes like Carpel Tunnel and Tennis Elbow.

Meaghan
04-06-2010, 08:09 AM
I developed SEVERE carpel tunnel at 20 and 30.

Whole palm was tingling and it was difficult making a fist after 5 minutes of hitting. Obviously the vibration is doing something.

I don't recommend this for people with repetitive stress syndromes like Carpel Tunnel and Tennis Elbow.

depends on racket i suspect, i thought there would be more vibration but no, my racket doesnt know the meaning.......:)

schenkelini
04-06-2010, 08:19 AM
I developed SEVERE carpel tunnel at 20 and 30.

Whole palm was tingling and it was difficult making a fist after 5 minutes of hitting. Obviously the vibration is doing something.

I don't recommend this for people with repetitive stress syndromes like Carpel Tunnel and Tennis Elbow.

That seems backwards. I would think that low tension would lead to less vibration not more.

drak
04-06-2010, 08:37 AM
That seems backwards. I would think that low tension would lead to less vibration not more.

I had none and if felt plush. Not saying on a certain racket and a certain tension it "might" happen but IMO in general a soft tension like 30-35 lbs is more likely to be very comfortable.

Drak

swedechris
04-06-2010, 09:05 AM
My baseline game improved with lowering the tension of the strings to the lower 40s . I used to have 50lbs as a rule in my TF tFight 335 16/20 bat.
Volleys were a bit more wobbly and my serve was a bit less of a force as the power was a bit too amped up.

defrule
04-06-2010, 10:28 AM
All this low tension talk makes me so horny. Pity I don't have my stringer with me at university otherwise I could take some test drives too.

drak
04-06-2010, 10:35 AM
I just strung up my daughter's 105 Vantage at 34lbs with Cyberflash 1.25. I used to play with this frame so I'll now get a good idea how it works on a 105 head size, she has another one with a Poly hybrid at 58lbs so I can do a solid comparison. We are hitting this afternoon, I'll update later.

drak
04-06-2010, 10:37 AM
All this low tension talk makes me so horny. Pity I don't have my stringer with me at university otherwise I could take some test drives too.

LMAO, Wait a minute here, you are at university where pretty coeds abound, and "soft stringing" gets you horny? What can I say?