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tenis
03-26-2010, 08:38 PM
Novak should fire Tod Martin immediately!!!
His game is sinking, serve sucks, confidence gone. It is painful to watch him these days, what is going on???

The Edberg
03-26-2010, 08:38 PM
from one underachiever to the other:)

supineAnimation
03-26-2010, 08:43 PM
The guy went right from Dubai to clay court Davis Cup to Indian Wells to Miami. He's spent. Don't catastrophize too quickly. He'll be fine.

onehandbh
03-26-2010, 08:50 PM
Just wait until he starts hitting aces from serving on his knees.

djokovicgonzalez2010
03-26-2010, 08:55 PM
Though I like Martin, I think firing him would go like:

ND: Ummm listen, Marian and I have been talking....
TM: Yeah...
ND: And I'm not sure this coaching thing is working out
TM: Look, I've got a plan
ND: So, we might let you go
TM: I can win you grand slams
ND: You couldn't win you grand slams
TM: I really thought we had developed a nice relationship
ND: Marian, can we keep him?
MV (Sighing): I suppose, until he finds another home

15_ounce
03-26-2010, 09:07 PM
Djokovic should only have 1 coach and be himself... develop his own original style and no need to change things. Every player has their own strength and djoker should concentrate on keeping it up instead of changing things.

tenis
03-26-2010, 09:14 PM
Djokovic should only have 1 coach and be himself... develop his own original style and no need to change things. Every player has their own strength and djoker should concentrate on keeping it up instead of changing things.

I agree. And he should keep what was working, Marian Vajda.

TheNatural
03-26-2010, 09:21 PM
Is there any shot that Djoker hits better than Todd Martin?

Djoker is a way better mover so he more than makes up for it, but maybe having a coach who is a better ball striker than himself is affecting his confidence.

serve: Martin
volleys: Martin
Forehand: Martin
Backhand: About even

jamesblakefan#1
03-26-2010, 11:10 PM
Is there any shot that Djoker hits better than Todd Martin?

Djoker is a way better mover so he more than makes up for it, but maybe having a coach who is a better ball striker than himself is affecting his confidence.

serve: Martin
volleys: Martin
Forehand: Martin
Backhand: About even

Even as a Djoker hater I have to say he has a better ground game than Martin ever had. Serve and net game is the only thing Martin has over him, movement, Fh and Bh is all in Djoker's favor.

abmk
03-26-2010, 11:38 PM
Is there any shot that Djoker hits better than Todd Martin?

Djoker is a way better mover so he more than makes up for it, but maybe having a coach who is a better ball striker than himself is affecting his confidence.

serve: Martin
volleys: Martin
Forehand: Martin
Backhand: About even

LOL @ forehand martin and BH even . djoker's FH >> martin's FH and djoker's BH >> martin's BH

rovex
03-27-2010, 02:27 AM
It's ironic how Djoko's serve is now cr*p and that's exactly what Martin's best shot was.

Blinkism
03-27-2010, 02:53 AM
Even as a Djoker hater I have to say he has a better ground game than Martin ever had. Serve and net game is the only thing Martin has over him, movement, Fh and Bh is all in Djoker's favor.

I don't know, Martin had a pretty sweet ground game.

Movement - sure, Djoker wins that department

FH - this is where I might agree with TheNatural.

BH - actually, they have a pretty similar backhand but Djoker has a slightly better one because he can hit it harder.

But, I can't agree with saying that the Serve and net game is the only thing Martin has over Djoker.

I think if these two played in their prime, it would be close - Djoker winning 6 times out of 10 (on HC's).

Joko
03-27-2010, 02:55 AM
why are djokovics recent bad results in connection with todd martin?

i mean, i know he is kind of his coach beside marian vajda, but imo in tennis it's very hard and kind of impossible to play constantly on such a level like djokovic did throughout many years. therefore i think it's kind of natural to lose on some tournaments early like he did now.

abmk
03-27-2010, 06:47 AM
why are djokovics recent bad results in connection with todd martin?

i mean, i know he is kind of his coach beside marian vajda, but imo in tennis it's very hard and kind of impossible to play constantly on such a level like djokovic did throughout many years. therefore i think it's kind of natural to lose on some tournaments early like he did now.

umm, because he chaged his serve ( which was pretty fine earlier ) after todd martin became his coach and now its become 'mediocore'

dr325i
03-27-2010, 07:09 AM
why are djokovics recent bad results in connection with todd martin?

i mean, i know he is kind of his coach beside marian vajda, but imo in tennis it's very hard and kind of impossible to play constantly on such a level like djokovic did throughout many years. therefore i think it's kind of natural to lose on some tournaments early like he did now.

I disagree.
He did not lose one or two tournaments early, lets face it, he did not beat anyone worthy this year...
AO -- he had the easiest draw until Tsonga, then he lost. The very next round, Federer has shown where Tsonga really is.
He was lucky in Dubai as there was no real challenger...but he almost missed to win that one too.
IW -- yes, Ljubicic was hot, but looking back, Novak beat him 5 times in a row. Plus, the road to the 4th round was 3 setters in every round
SEO -- he loses to Rochus, dropping his serve MANY times, 11 DFs

I don't see a true #2 in the world here... His serve is falling apart. I am sure there must be a reason Martin is changing his serve motion. Novak's serve used to be excellent, but I believe it was dangerous for his shoulder. Here is an example of his old serving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F9j52omb2E&feature=player_embedded

His confidence is shaken. Hopefully, he can pull out of this slump and have a great clay season...

FlamEnemY
03-27-2010, 07:13 AM
^^ About his serve, actually people around here are saying that the current motion is dangerous, not his original one (which never got him in trouble for several years)

fedfan08
03-27-2010, 07:20 AM
Djokovic has really gone down hill since hooking up with Martin.

That's why I get annoyed with all the fans on Fed's website who ***** about him not having a proper coach. Look how many coaches Roddick has gone through and he's still a one slam wonder. How exactly has Stefanki improved his game? Murray hired Corretja but he still hasn't won a big title on clay. Djokovic has had plenty of WTF losses since hooking up with Martin. Just goes to show that hiring a big name/well known coach doesn't necessarily translate into better results.

fedfan08
03-27-2010, 07:23 AM
Why did Martin think Djokovic needed to change his serve? I would say that's not something you mess with unless it's really bad ala Dementieva or you're coming back from injury ala Sharapova. Once you mess around with the serve isn't it hard to go back to what worked?

Cup8489
03-27-2010, 07:33 AM
I disagree.
He did not lose one or two tournaments early, lets face it, he did not beat anyone worthy this year...
AO -- he had the easiest draw until Tsonga, then he lost. The very next round, Federer has shown where Tsonga really is.
He was lucky in Dubai as there was no real challenger...but he almost missed to win that one too.
IW -- yes, Ljubicic was hot, but looking back, Novak beat him 5 times in a row. Plus, the road to the 4th round was 3 setters in every round
SEO -- he loses to Rochus, dropping his serve MANY times, 11 DFs

I don't see a true #2 in the world here... His serve is falling apart. I am sure there must be a reason Martin is changing his serve motion. Novak's serve used to be excellent, but I believe it was dangerous for his shoulder. Here is an example of his old serving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F9j52omb2E&feature=player_embedded

His confidence is shaken. Hopefully, he can pull out of this slump and have a great clay season...

Good video. he hasn't had such a good serve for over a year now, and its now become downright appalling.

djokovicgonzalez2010
03-27-2010, 07:36 AM
His grunt has changed lots

Joko
03-27-2010, 07:58 AM
umm, because he chaged his serve ( which was pretty fine earlier ) after todd martin became his coach and now its become 'mediocore'

well first of all, i would say his serve was good, solid, but imo not his best shot though.
if i'm looking through to the current top 10 list. there are only nadal, davydenko and maybe murray which have not a better serve then djokovic. and i'm only talking about the top 10 list, there are many other guys like ljubicic which has and always had a much better serve.

i mean i totally agree that he changed his serve and it was better earlier, but i'm pretty sure there is a reason (like already mentioned maybe his shoulder) why he changed his serve motion and you can't say todd is responsible for that.
my point is, djokovic would be quite stupid if he wouldn't see that his serve was better and still plays with the new serve motion just because todd told him so.


I disagree.
He did not lose one or two tournaments early, lets face it, he did not beat anyone worthy this year...
AO -- he had the easiest draw until Tsonga, then he lost. The very next round, Federer has shown where Tsonga really is.
He was lucky in Dubai as there was no real challenger...but he almost missed to win that one too.
IW -- yes, Ljubicic was hot, but looking back, Novak beat him 5 times in a row. Plus, the road to the 4th round was 3 setters in every round
SEO -- he loses to Rochus, dropping his serve MANY times, 11 DFs



yeah he did not lose one or two tournaments in row that early, but i think that's just human. look back to 07. federer played great tennis at the ao (didn't drop a single set!) and dubai and lost surprisingly two times in a row against canas (i know defensive player, wahtever...). my point is, that's just a high level and djokovic never had a weapon like federer's or nadal's forehand, or roddick's serve, therefore it is not THAT surprisingly that he can lose that early too. but against rochus thats really a big upset.
sure 11 df's is just unacceptable and it's one of the main reasons why he lost this match. but like you said he didn't played good at the ao, at dubai...

I don't see a true #2 in the world here... [...]
i know there are many djokovic fans, but imo he never was a true #2.
he has nothing special.
solid serve, solid forehand...
his backhand is very nice (especially cross court) and he often plays pretty smart. overall he is a great player and totally deserves to be in the top 3, no doubt about that. but he wouldn't be at this ranking position without a sidelined nadal that's for sure and that's totally independent of his serve.

abmk
03-27-2010, 08:34 AM
well first of all, i would say his serve was good, solid, but imo not his best shot though.
if i'm looking through to the current top 10 list. there are only nadal, davydenko and maybe murray which have not a better serve then djokovic. and i'm only talking about the top 10 list, there are many other guys like ljubicic which has and always had a much better serve.

i mean i totally agree that he changed his serve and it was better earlier, but i'm pretty sure there is a reason (like already mentioned maybe his shoulder) why he changed his serve motion and you can't say todd is responsible for that.
my point is, djokovic would be quite stupid if he wouldn't see that his serve was better and still plays with the new serve motion just because todd told him so.



well we don't how exactly how his mind works. But his serve itself was pretty fine, did it really require a rehaul ???? so todd martin who's involved in this change shares a part of the blame

P.S. When did novak have shoulder-related injuries/problems before by the way ? never heard of em' ....

NamRanger
03-27-2010, 08:43 AM
Djokovic is not a guy that is going to year in and year out dominate and win every tournament. Give it up people, you are setting the bar too high. Stop being spoiled and expect everyone to dominate like Federer and Nadal.

abmk
03-27-2010, 08:49 AM
Djokovic is not a guy that is going to year in and year out dominate and win every tournament. Give it up people, you are setting the bar too high. Stop being spoiled and expect everyone to dominate like Federer and Nadal.

+1

10 chars

namelessone
03-27-2010, 09:37 AM
Djokovic is not a guy that is going to year in and year out dominate and win every tournament. Give it up people, you are setting the bar too high. Stop being spoiled and expect everyone to dominate like Federer and Nadal.

Yeah Nam,but all we are asking is for him not to lose in the second round while being the nr.2 guy in tennis and to a guy who has not achieved anything worthwhile in tennis. I mean,he is the nr.2 right now,something which he has fought for in the last years and instead of consolidating his spot he seems to be playing the worse tennis of his career. Also,I heard the is tired and we are not even halfway into the season. He should not play everything in sight like last year when he finished with 90+ matches if I remember correctly.

I can understand proven champs like fed or nadal being a bit bored with the non-slams and maybe losing first or second round in a couple of events but at this stage in his career,novak should be at his hungriest and he looks totally flat out there,like he has no motivation anymore.

The Edberg
03-27-2010, 09:39 AM
I dont think anyone is expecting Djokovic to dominate like Roger.. But we expecting him to make more than 1 slam final in a two year period and not to consistently to out earlier than he should at slams and other smaller events

Mr_Shiver
03-27-2010, 10:35 AM
I thought Novaks hot streak at the end of last season had to do with Martin, and then this happens. I don't believe Novak had a dominant serve previously, but I thought it was solid. It was the type of serve that could give you a good start to the point. Now, it is just ughhhhhh......

Besides the serve, he seems so much more passive and reactive. During his hot streak last season I saw someone dictating play and being more aggressive. Now he looks a lot like Andy Murray. It is a shame. I hope he can work his way through this.

dmt
03-27-2010, 10:41 AM
Djokovic has really gone down hill since hooking up with Martin.

That's why I get annoyed with all the fans on Fed's website who ***** about him not having a proper coach. Look how many coaches Roddick has gone through and he's still a one slam wonder. How exactly has Stefanki improved his game? Murray hired Corretja but he still hasn't won a big title on clay. Djokovic has had plenty of WTF losses since hooking up with Martin. Just goes to show that hiring a big name/well known coach doesn't necessarily translate into better results.

oh come on, u dont think Stefanki has improved roddick? I think roddick's backhand has become better overall. Do u really believe that Roddick would have been able to play so well at wimby last year without stefanki?

CocaCola
03-27-2010, 10:46 AM
Just wait until he starts hitting aces from serving on his knees.

this .

scotus
03-27-2010, 11:17 AM
Just give him some time.

Any change in technique takes a while to get used to.

It is good that Djoko and Todd are using the long period bet the first two majors of the year to work on this change.

dr325i
03-27-2010, 01:17 PM
oh come on, u dont think Stefanki has improved roddick? I think roddick's backhand has become better overall. Do u really believe that Roddick would have been able to play so well at wimby last year without stefanki?

I think Stefaneki has indeed improved Roddick tremendeously:
1) He finally realized that only with the serve he cannot compete -- he toned down his serve and uses energy to improve movement and his BH
2) His BH is much better, plus his BH slice is a weapon now.
3) he slimmed down because Stefaneki made him do that
4) his movement is 10x better than 2 years ago

Currently, Roddick is playing the best tennis of his career...

On the other hand, the only part of Novak's game that is suffering is his serve right now (and his head probably after these early exits). The only one responsible for his serve is Martin...

Djokovicfan4life
03-27-2010, 01:21 PM
Guys, Novak's serve was getting worse before he hired Todd Martin. I remember it bailing him out of many a break point when he won the Australian Open. Give it a little time before pointing the blame where it probably doesn't belong. It's not like you guys are watching them practice every day, so you don't really know anything about what they're doing other than the fact that Novak served from his knees, which is a valid serving drill.

Gugafan
03-27-2010, 01:23 PM
Why change something that was never broken???...What is Martin thinking of in changing Djokovic's service motion??!

NamRanger
03-27-2010, 01:46 PM
Yeah Nam,but all we are asking is for him not to lose in the second round while being the nr.2 guy in tennis and to a guy who has not achieved anything worthwhile in tennis. I mean,he is the nr.2 right now,something which he has fought for in the last years and instead of consolidating his spot he seems to be playing the worse tennis of his career. Also,I heard the is tired and we are not even halfway into the season. He should not play everything in sight like last year when he finished with 90+ matches if I remember correctly.

I can understand proven champs like fed or nadal being a bit bored with the non-slams and maybe losing first or second round in a couple of events but at this stage in his career,novak should be at his hungriest and he looks totally flat out there,like he has no motivation anymore.




LOL, I'm sorry, but people get upset all the time. It's a sport, and that's why they play the game. Novak loses, get a grip. Not everyone can dominate like Federer can for long periods of time and go through a year with sub 10 losses.

firefox
03-27-2010, 03:14 PM
That crap windmill service motion is really taking a toll on Nole's shoulder! :(

He has elastic athletic tape all over his right shoulder.

Ripster
03-27-2010, 04:28 PM
Djokovic is not a guy that is going to year in and year out dominate and win every tournament. Give it up people, you are setting the bar too high. Stop being spoiled and expect everyone to dominate like Federer and Nadal.

We're not expecting him to dominate like Federer of 2006. We're expecting him to play like Novak Djokovic of 2007/2008 not playing way below his top level like he has so far this year.

jazzyfunkybluesy
03-27-2010, 04:32 PM
He should fire Martin. He was much better before hiring him.

yemenmocha
03-27-2010, 09:11 PM
Seeing Djoke lose early at Indian Wells was great. Then I didn't have to endure those gdamn annoying fans chanting his nickname over and over.

dr325i
03-28-2010, 07:08 AM
He should fire Martin. He was much better before hiring him.

I would not rush things. There MUST be a reason they are changing his serve. Could be the long term benefit. I would be surprised that they would alter a VERY good serve just for the heck of it...
Therefore, for this change to be effective, it will take some time. Luckily for Novak, Murray is in the slump, too, Nadal is still not back, Del Potro is quiet and injured...