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View Full Version : Who is more talented- Ljubicic or Gonzalez


davey25
03-29-2010, 07:07 PM
One thing I find interesting is Ljubicic is often potrayed as an example of the weak field of 2005-2006 while Fernando Gonzalez gets alot of praise on this forum. I find that strange. I do think the field in 2006 was kind of weak, and Ljubic at #3 ranked is a bit high for him even in his prime. However I do think he is both a more talented and superior tennis player to Gonzalez. Probably Gonzalez is the better player now since Ljubicic despite his big win a week ago is past his prime, but I think Ljubicic has had the slightly better career and was the better player. As for talent I think Ljubicic is better.

One thing that showed me Ljubicic was the more talented player was their match at the 2005 Madrid Masters in the quarters. Gonzalez played maybe the match of his life, perfect tennis, almost no unforced errors. Ljubicic was tired after playing a few weeks in a row and was down 6-3, 2-0, 30-0 Gonzalez serving. Ljubicic still came back to win even with Gonzalez playing perfectly. Gonzalez lost serve at 2-0 from 30-0 to go back on serve when Ljubicic hit 4 winners. He had break points the next game but Ljubicic saved them all with winners. In the tiebreak Gonzalez hit only 1 or 2 unforced errors and still lost it 7-2. In the 3rd set Gonzalez I dont think hit a single unforced error in any of Ljubicic's service games, and the game he lost serve didnt hit a single unforced error either. For Gonzalez it would have been his best chance to ever win a Masters as he probably could have beaten a young Nadal on those fast courts in the final (despite that Nadal came from 2 sets to 0 down to beat Ljubicic in the final). Yet he lost it to Ljubicic, despite playing his very best tennis and making no mistakes.

Another sign of Ljubicic's superior talent is that he was able to win his first ever Masters many years past his prime, while Gonzalez could never win one.

World Beater
03-29-2010, 07:09 PM
i dont think there is a huge difference talent wise. but mentally ivan is superior.

dont forget gonzo made the AO final. Ljube has barely sniffed one.

davey25
03-29-2010, 07:22 PM
i dont think there is a huge difference talent wise. but mentally ivan is superior.

dont forget gonzo made the AO final. Ljube has barely sniffed one.

I actually think Gonzalez is mentally stronger. He is a very good and underrated competitor with overrated talent who has made a whole lot out of just one shot in his career. Ljubicic should have had a few more runs in slams than he has.

I didnt forget Gonzalez's 2007 AO final, but I would still taking winning a Masters over reaching a slam final, just because winning something beats being the runner up. :)

djokovicgonzalez2010
03-29-2010, 07:23 PM
Career High:
LJU 3
GON 5
But Gonzo in a tougher era. Ljubo probably worst #3 ever, sadly... Tough call.

OKUSA
03-29-2010, 07:32 PM
I picked Gonzo because I am terribly bias after having just watched his match vs Monaco, he hit like 20 straight UE off his backhand then hit 3 amazing passing shots in a row

djokovicgonzalez2010
03-29-2010, 07:32 PM
Ljubicic
babolat141, davey25, Semi-Pro
3 50.00%
Gonzalez
Bud, djokovicgonzalez2010, OKUSA
3 50.00%

Drama!!!

T1000
03-29-2010, 07:33 PM
Lub easily, better serve, backhand, and volleys. Gonzo only has a better forehand

davey25
03-29-2010, 07:35 PM
In Gonzalez's best ever match in Madrid 2005 where despite making virtually no errors he lost to Ljubicic from 6-3, 2-0, 30-0 up and lost his best ever chance of winning a Masters despite playing perfectly, Ljubucic also had more forehand winners in that match IIRC and blasted forehand winners past Gonzalez on some big points to break Gonzalez's serves.

thalivest
03-29-2010, 07:40 PM
First serve- Ljubicic
Second serve- Ljubicic
Forehand- Gonzalez maybe
Backhand- Ljubicic
Return of serve- Ljubicic
Forehand volley- Ljubicic
Backhand volley- Ljubicic
Overhead- Ljubicic
Movement- not sure
Passing shots- Ljubicic
Fitness- not sure

Game wise it is Ljubicic easily when both were in their primes.

djokovicgonzalez2010
03-29-2010, 07:42 PM
List above : return of serve? Unsure on movement? Maybe on FH? Passing shot? No, just no!!!

OKUSA
03-29-2010, 07:44 PM
if you're not sure on movement, then I can't take your opinion on anything with any seriousness

Justdoit10
03-29-2010, 07:45 PM
First serve- Ljubicic
Second serve- Ljubicic
Forehand- Gonzalez maybe
Backhand- Ljubicic
Return of serve- Ljubicic
Forehand volley- Ljubicic
Backhand volley- Ljubicic
Overhead- Ljubicic
Movement- not sure
Passing shots- Ljubicic
Fitness- not sure

Game wise it is Ljubicic easily when both were in their primes.

:lol: "Maybe". Gonzalez's forehand is way better than Ljubicic. Offensively and defensively.

thalivest
03-29-2010, 07:46 PM
Neither move well. They are both poor defensively and need to rely on offense entirely to win. Gonzalez isnt a good returner or passer. If you hit a hard serve, especialy to his backhand, most times you get a little chip return back from him. On passing shots he struggles to make any of them unless you hit the ball right to him, and even then he sometimes misses. Watch the matches they have played vs each other and you will easily see who is better at both.

thalivest
03-29-2010, 07:47 PM
:lol: "Maybe". Gonzalez's forehand is way better than Ljubicic. Offensively and defensively.

The matches they have played against each other Gonzalez has even lost alot of points via the Ljubicic forehand. OK though I could change that part, Ljubicic still by far the better player.

Li Ching Yuen
03-29-2010, 07:51 PM
First serve- Ljubicic
Second serve- Ljubicic
Forehand- Gonzalez
Backhand- Ljubicic
Return of serve-backhand - Ljubicic
Return of serve-forehand - Gonzalez
Forehand volley- Ljubicic
Backhand volley- Ljubicic
Overhead- Ljubicic
Movement- Gonzalez by a million miles, Ljubicic can't move.
Passing shots- Ljubicic
Fitness- Gonzales again, the guy is very fit especially for his age, and very tonic.

We have a 8-4 for Ljubicic.

However, Ivan's movement and the quality of Gonzalez's forehand should make this a bit more tight.

abraxas21
03-29-2010, 07:51 PM
i went for ljubo, the legenda.

His forehand sucks compared to Gonzo's but I think the backhand, serve and volleys are certainly better than what Gonzo offers.

slicefox
03-29-2010, 08:30 PM
ROFL

gonzalez, no contest.

Ljubicic won a masters title so now everyone things he is GOAT. Average age of TW posters is 12 as I see it now, very weak minded, short-memory kids.

davey25
03-30-2010, 04:54 AM
ROFL

gonzalez, no contest.

Ljubicic won a masters title so now everyone things he is GOAT. Average age of TW posters is 12 as I see it now, very weak minded, short-memory kids.

Obvoiusly you did not see their match in the 2005 Madrid quarters where Gonzalez played a perfect match with no errors and still lost his best ever chance to win a Masters losing to Ljubicic from 6-3, 2-0, 30-0 up.

rovex
03-30-2010, 05:06 AM
Average age of TW posters is 12 .

Including yourself, yes.

tacou
03-30-2010, 06:05 PM
proof; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvF69okLqsw

rainingaces
03-30-2010, 06:09 PM
Gonzo without a doubt.

Some of the winners he hits are out of this world and when his back hand is firing its a thing of beauty. Ljubicic has a very good serve, good backhand and solid everything else nothing to get you off you seat like gonzo.

When gonzo beat fed at the end of year masters some of the shots he made were incredible, I honestly couldn't see lube making them.

kishnabe
03-30-2010, 07:21 PM
To be Honest...If Lubricant had not won Indian wells last week...this topic wouldn't even be dicussed. So when he win an MS he is now talented than Gonzo??????

Okay Lubricant is a good tennis player...but Gonzo is by far the more consistent and strong performer in slams compared to lubricant.

davey25
03-30-2010, 07:45 PM
To be Honest...If Lubricant had not won Indian wells last week...this topic wouldn't even be dicussed. So when he win an MS he is now talented than Gonzo??????

Like I already said I have seen many of their matches and Gonzalez cant beat Ljubicic if both play their best. That has nothing to do with Ljubicic winning a Masters. And since you speak of winning a Masters like I already said Gonzalez played a perfect match with no errors and still lost his best ever chance of winning a Masters by losing a quarterfinal to Ljubicic from 6-3, 2-0, 30-0 serving up in the 2005 Madrid Masters. Gonzalez played his best in what was his best would be opportunity at a Masters and Ljubicic still took it all away from him entirely with his own winners.

Why didnt Gonzalez reach #3 in the World? I guess his one good shot wasnt good enough to do that.

And if you want to talk about just one event who would even talk much about Gonzalez today if it wasnt for his 2007 Australian Open run.

Shaolin
03-30-2010, 07:52 PM
First serve- Ljubicic
Second serve- Ljubicic
Forehand- Gonzalez maybe
Backhand- Ljubicic
Return of serve- Ljubicic
Forehand volley- Ljubicic
Backhand volley- Ljubicic
Overhead- Ljubicic
Movement- not sure
Passing shots- Ljubicic
Fitness- not sure

Game wise it is Ljubicic easily when both were in their primes.


Forehand- Gonzalez ''MAYBE''?????

Just......wow.

Gonzo has one of the best FHs in the world.

matchmaker
03-30-2010, 09:39 PM
Gonzalez. That forehand alone is a unique talent.

Now a mixture of both would be spectacular.

Ljubicic has a crappy FH, if you just replaced that with the Gonzalez FH, you would have a frightening player.

Rhino
03-31-2010, 02:05 AM
Gonzo, because he looks a lot cooler than Ljubo.

Bilbo
03-31-2010, 04:25 PM
ROFL

gonzalez, no contest.

Ljubicic won a masters title so now everyone things he is GOAT. Average age of TW posters is 12 as I see it now, very weak minded, short-memory kids.

I always laugh at the poster who view's his tennis knowledge as so far superior to everyone else's that he doesn't have to even try to prove his point.... while denouncing everyone else as fools.... I laugh at you... HAHAHAHAHAHA... Ljubicic.

So, let's look at the stats: Gonzalez has won 11 tournaments and Ljubicic has won 10... ok, cool. However, Gonzalez has won 0 atp 500 events and 0 atp 1000 events... basically the only tournaments he can win are the ones in which he is one of only two exceptional (top 10-15) players playing. Ljubicic on the other hand has won one atp 1000 event, and two atp 500 events. While I would agree that Gonzalez has had more success in slams... slams aren't everything... expecially when comparing two players who've never won a slam. The bulk of the year is made up of other tournaments, in which Ljubicic has substantially outperformed Gonzalez in year in and year out. I think it's close, but due to what just posted as well as the very valid player shot comparison done by Li Ching Yuen, I'd have to give the slight edge to Ljubicic's career.

ChopShot
03-31-2010, 04:51 PM
Somehow, Ljubicic strikes me as having the cooler nickname. I mean, come on! Lubricant! It's absolutely priceless! The only actually hilarious thing you could get away with calling Gonzalez is Fonzo - which incites a disturbing mental image of Gonzalez in a fur coat, with a diamond studded walking stick, ordering hos around, and is therefore out of the question :p

samprasvsfederer123
03-31-2010, 04:56 PM
gonzo has better two wings consitency, everything doesnt have lesser talent than lubicic out of all the players why compare these two?

davey25
04-22-2010, 04:23 AM
I always laugh at the poster who view's his tennis knowledge as so far superior to everyone else's that he doesn't have to even try to prove his point.... while denouncing everyone else as fools.... I laugh at you... HAHAHAHAHAHA... Ljubicic.

So, let's look at the stats: Gonzalez has won 11 tournaments and Ljubicic has won 10... ok, cool. However, Gonzalez has won 0 atp 500 events and 0 atp 1000 events... basically the only tournaments he can win are the ones in which he is one of only two exceptional (top 10-15) players playing. Ljubicic on the other hand has won one atp 1000 event, and two atp 500 events. While I would agree that Gonzalez has had more success in slams... slams aren't everything... expecially when comparing two players who've never won a slam. The bulk of the year is made up of other tournaments, in which Ljubicic has substantially outperformed Gonzalez in year in and year out. I think it's close, but due to what just posted as well as the very valid player shot comparison done by Li Ching Yuen, I'd have to give the slight edge to Ljubicic's career.

Being that you are a big Ljubicic fan you probably saw their match in Madrid too in 2006 where Gonzalez played perfectly with no unforced errors really and still lost to Ljubicic from 6-3, 2-0, 30-0 up. Even Gonzalez's best tennis is not good enough to beat Ljubicic with a big lead if Ljubicic plays even decently. That was Gonzalez's best ever chance to win a Maters too and Ljubicic stole it from him despite Gonzalez playing perfectly.

aldeayeah
04-22-2010, 07:51 AM
Short-term memory my *ss, it's 2005-2006 Ljubicic I'm thinking about.

Ljubicic actually dominated the field (except Fedal) in his peak.

inkpw2
04-22-2010, 08:01 AM
gonzo is god. that's all i have to say

KAndersonFan
04-22-2010, 08:04 AM
Ljubicic has a better serve and especially backhand than Gonzo, while Gonzo's forehand is clearly superior. As to who's more talented, I have no idea..but Ljubicic has the biggest title between them

forzamilan90
04-22-2010, 08:39 AM
Gonzalez is the more talented player

yellowoctopus
04-22-2010, 09:16 AM
I actually think Gonzalez is mentally stronger. He is a very good and underrated competitor with overrated talent who has made a whole lot out of just one shot in his career. Ljubicic should have had a few more runs in slams than he has.

I didnt forget Gonzalez's 2007 AO final, but I would still taking winning a Masters over reaching a slam final, just because winning something beats being the runner up. :)

Great points, Davey25. Gonzalez's mental toughness is most likely a derivative from his style of play, or could be the other way around? Either way, it compliments his playing style, which consists of mostly looking for opportunities to hit winners with the forehand. http://www.thesportsjournalist.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/fernando-gonzalez.jpg

In contrast, Ljubicic's game requires him to be smarter about his strategy, because aside from a good serve, he doesn't really have an overpowering shot. One also should keep in mind that Ljubicic's mental toughness is no chopped-liver neither. He is often seen as not as tough because of the frequent injuries.
http://nuovosoldo.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/ivan_ljubicic_ordina2_2007.jpg

inkpw2
04-22-2010, 10:39 AM
i haven't seen lubricant play enough to decide who is better. but gonzalez is so much fun to watch and i believe he is god