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View Full Version : Federer doesnt care about the best of 3s just as much as Serena


davey25
03-30-2010, 07:29 PM
Lets face it. Federer basically tanks almost all the best of 3 events he is in today. If some dont like me putting it that way too bad, frankly speaking that is what he does. He puts in half assed efforts vs mediocre opponents he would never lose to (and rarely come close to losing to) in a slam. Now I am a Serena Williams fan but she to many extent does the same thing. The only difference is Federer gets a free pass for it, he never gets criticized for it. People say "he is saving himself for the slams" or even more ridiculously "so and so third tier or worse player was too good today" each time. Please. Federer doesnt give half a damn about the non slams. Which is fine, as long as if someone like Serena gets criticized for it he should as well, or if it is ok for him to save himself for the slams and give a half assed effort in all his best of 3 tournaments it should be for her as well. What double standards.

mikro112
03-30-2010, 07:33 PM
http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu148/mikro112_2/5d6ae2e8.png

Sentinel
03-30-2010, 07:42 PM
Yup, like Roger, Serena does not get warmed up until late into the 4th, sometimes 5th set.

what ?

fedhingis515
03-30-2010, 08:20 PM
Um Serena always plays best of 3 whether it's a slam or not lol. But yeah we get what your saying. If it's not a slam Serena and Federer don't really give a hoot.

TheTruth
03-30-2010, 08:26 PM
Fed cares. I can't see him giving a half effort. He's a perfectionist and a competitor. When it comes down to it, we all want to win. No one trains just to play four tournaments a year. In Serena's case I think it's true, because she doesn't even play a lot of tournaments outside of the slams. Whenever Fed wins a break point, or a set point he celebrates like everyone else. I think he wants to add as much as he can to his legacy. Why wouldn't he?

Justdoit10
03-30-2010, 08:28 PM
Federer plays way better in grand slams. He doesnt walk into matches and make 60 unforced errors. For the past 2 years, these 3 set matches have yielded some dismal performances from fed.

Mun
03-30-2010, 08:28 PM
Yep, at 6-5 in the 3rd set tie break, he decided that he didn't care about these masters LOL!!!

Face it, Federer tried it and choked yet again. Baghdatis II.

icedevil0289
03-30-2010, 08:28 PM
I think fed cares about these tournaments. Fed is just a lot more vulnerable in best of 3 compared to best of 5. He has had moments of where he has played poorly in grandslams as well, but because they are 5 sets, he has more time to recover. That's clearly not the case here. Fed's game has been patchy for a long time now and it's just more visible in best of 3. The other guys know this and take advantage.

Breaker
03-30-2010, 08:29 PM
Agreed.

He also didn't care in the following matches.

-First two sets against Haas at FO.
-First 3 sets against DelPo at FO.
-First two sets against Berdych at AO
-First set and 6 games against Acasuso at FO
-First set and 12 games and 8 points against Roddick at Wimbledon.
-After two sets vs. Del Potro at US Open.

Justdoit10
03-30-2010, 08:30 PM
I think fed cares about these tournaments. Fed is just a lot more vulnerable in best of 3 compared to best of 5. He has had moments of where he has played poorly in grandslams as well, but because they are 5 sets, he has more time to recover. That's clearly not the case here. Fed's game has been patchy for a long time now and it's just more visible in best of 3. The other guys know this and take advantage.
Federer still wallops most people in straight sets even in best of 5 set matches. That is clearly not the case. His performances at grand slams are just way superior.

davey25
03-30-2010, 08:31 PM
Fed cares. I can't see him giving a half effort.

LOL then you are either crazy or you actually should watch some of the matches (not that someone should need to watch to figure out instantly what is happening when he is losing to completely mediocre players like Baghdatis, Berdych, Fish, Simon, Benneteau, and others with such regularity in Masters the last 2 years). Anyway sorry I worded this thread title wrong. You all know what I mean though.

OKUSA
03-30-2010, 08:31 PM
The only difference between Serena and Federer is that Federer actually shows up, has a few exhibition like showings then gets beat by a good but not amazing opponent to leave early and have more time with his family.

icedevil0289
03-30-2010, 08:33 PM
Federer still wallops most people in straight sets even in best of 5 set matches. That is clearly not the case. His performances at grand slams are just way superior.

yes they are superior because he peaks at slams, but there are also times where his game has been extremely patchy even in slams and he has paid poorly. He has found himself down 2 sets a few times and has had to fight back. The only difference is in best of 3 he would have been done, while in GS, he has chances to fight back.

davey25
03-30-2010, 08:33 PM
The only difference between Serena and Federer is that Federer actually shows up, has a few exhibition like showings then gets beat by a good but not amazing opponent to leave early and have more time with his family.

That makes Serena actually more admirable since she atleast many times pulls out rather than wasting peoples time.

akv89
03-30-2010, 08:34 PM
It's not about how much Federer cares about winning while he's playing the tournament, but about how many hours of practice he's willing to put in to prepare for the tournament. Federer peaks for the majors because he almost always takes one or two weeks off to only prepare for that one tournament. He doesn't or can't do that for every Masters tourney. Even if he wants to win his matches badly during the tournament, he might not be able to do so since he's been lacking some practice.

veroniquem
03-30-2010, 08:35 PM
Excuse me but complete bull (to OP). Does playing an intense third set TB look like tanking to you?
Fed would have lost AO 2009 to Berdych and RG 2009 to Haas if those matches had been best of 3. It is not a matter of motivation. In slams, Fed uses his fitness to outlast opponents when he is in trouble, that's all. He waits for them to get tired and then makes his move. When the match is shorter there are currently many players who can beat him.

davey25
03-30-2010, 08:35 PM
Agreed.

He also didn't care in the following matches.

-First two sets against Haas at FO.
-First 3 sets against DelPo at FO.
-First two sets against Berdych at AO
-First set and 6 games against Acasuso at FO
-First set and 12 games and 8 points against Roddick at Wimbledon.
-After two sets vs. Del Potro at US Open.

Del Potro, Roddick, and when healthy Haas are actually really good players, and legitimate top players (aka they arent Baghdatis or Berdych). As for the Acasuso match he was never losing that one. Berdych at the AO, well flukes happen every once in awhile, which the mediocre Berdych leading a Federer who is actually trying is, and Federer still won anyway.

OKUSA
03-30-2010, 08:35 PM
That makes Serena actually more admirable since she atleast many times pulls out rather than wasting peoples time.

Maybe you're the one that's at fault, I don't expect Federer to win Masters like I do Grand Slams. I expect Nadal to win Masters since he's still young and wants to win these titles

anointedone
03-30-2010, 08:38 PM
Federer has tanked virtually all his Masters events for the last 2-3 years now. Now that he has the Slam records he wants he will do that even more often. If Nadal had 16 slams he would still play every event all out and not tank every non slam event like Federer does once he got older and was on the verge of reaching his goals. That is the biggest difference between Nadal and Federer, and why Nadal is much more of a true champion in a certain sense.

Emet74
03-30-2010, 08:38 PM
I don't know how you can watch Fed's body language as he plays; how tense he is; how re reacts to misses or to important points he wins, and come away thinking he doesn't care.

You realize he's been in the US for weeks now, w/ babies, etc., practicing for hours, all to win 3 matches and watch his points tally drop as he tries to match Pete's #1 record?

He cares, he's just struggling to win big points. As Rafa would say, he lacks "calm."

anointedone
03-30-2010, 08:39 PM
Excuse me but complete bull (to OP). Does playing an intense third set TB look like tanking to you?


What was intense about it? All the **** easy shots sprayed out of court, LOL! You dont even like Federer so I dont know why you are defending him.

icedevil0289
03-30-2010, 08:40 PM
What was intense about it? All the **** easy shots sprayed out of court, LOL! You dont even like Federer so I dont know why you are defending him.

One doesn't need to like a player to defend him/her. It's called objectivity. Although that's not the first thing I think of when I think of veroniquem. No offense to her.

Breaker
03-30-2010, 08:40 PM
Del Potro, Roddick, and when healthy Haas are actually really good players, and legitimate top players (aka they arent Baghdatis or Berdych). As for the Acasuso match he was never losing that one. Berdych at the AO, well flukes happen every once in awhile, which the mediocre Berdych leading a Federer who is actually trying is, and Federer still won anyway.

Contradictions galore.

5 star multiple account troll thread.

Justdoit10
03-30-2010, 08:41 PM
Excuse me but complete bull (to OP). Does playing an intense third set TB look like tanking to you?
Fed would have lost AO 2009 to Berdych and RG 2009 to Haas if those matches had been best of 3. It is not a matter of motivation. In slams, Fed uses his fitness to outlast opponents when he is in trouble, that's all. He waits for them to get tired and then makes his move. When the match is shorter there are currently many players who can beat him.
Excuse me but your post is complete bull. We all saw the atrocious 60 plus UE federer made today. Federer is not playing to his full capabilities. If this had been on Nadal, you wouldnt have stopped defending him like you have for his last dozen or so losses. :lol:

davey25
03-30-2010, 08:42 PM
I don't know how you can watch Fed's body language as he plays; how tense he is; how re reacts to misses or to important points he wins, and come away thinking he doesn't care.

You realize he's been in the US for weeks now, w/ babies, etc., practicing for hours, all to win 3 matches and watch his points tally drop as he tries to match Pete's #1 record?


Players are obligated to play the Masters. If you dont play without a suitable excuse you are fined. Granted not that the fines would bother someone as rich as Federer, but it still isnt customary to just accept fines and keep pulling out and getting fined, so of he will make the token appearances at most, maybe pulling out with 2 or 3 a year with some "injury".

davey25
03-30-2010, 08:43 PM
Excuse me but your post is complete bull. We all saw the atrocious 60 plus UE federer made today. Federer is not playing to his full capabilities. If this had been on Nadal, you wouldnt have stopped defending him like you have for his last dozen or so losses. :lol:

Yeah he would have lost to anyone in the top 100 today quite possibly. Actually his last round with Serra where he basically tried to hand over the match but Serra refused it (where is Serra ranked anyway) is further evidence to that.

RoddickAce
03-30-2010, 08:43 PM
Serena doesn't really get criticized for not trying in non-slam tournaments. She only gets criticized for this when she goes on about who the "real #1 is" when she was #2 back then.

akv89
03-30-2010, 08:43 PM
Federer has tanked virtually all his Masters events for the last 2-3 years now. Now that he has the Slam records he wants he will do that even more often. If Nadal had 16 slams he would still play every event all out and not tank every non slam event like Federer does once he got older and was on the verge of reaching his goals. That is the biggest difference between Nadal and Federer, and why Nadal is much more of a true champion in a certain sense.

A big reason why Federer has 16 slams and counting by age 28 is that he doesn't spend all his energy preparing for smaller tournaments. Also, if you recall, Federer was winning Masters titles left and right when he was Nadal's age.

abraxas21
03-30-2010, 08:44 PM
Lets face it. Federer basically tanks almost all the best of 3 events he is in today. If some dont like me putting it that way too bad, frankly speaking that is what he does. He puts in half assed efforts vs mediocre opponents he would never lose to (and rarely come close to losing to) in a slam. Now I am a Serena Williams fan but she to many extent does the same thing. The only difference is Federer gets a free pass for it, he never gets criticized for it. People say "he is saving himself for the slams" or even more ridiculously "so and so third tier or worse player was too good today" each time. Please. Federer doesnt give half a damn about the non slams. Which is fine, as long as if someone like Serena gets criticized for it he should as well, or if it is ok for him to save himself for the slams and give a half assed effort in all his best of 3 tournaments it should be for her as well. What double standards.

Federer cared a lot today. You could see it in his body language and determination. However he lost his focus completely in the defining tiebreak. He made 4 or 5 UE with his forehand and that costed him the match, unfortunately.

Truth is, Federer has never truly been a top clutch player when things are really tight. He can pull wins against the likes of Roddick pretty much because those guys are imo not very mentally strong but when he faces someone who forces him to come up with the shots, who forces him to actually win the match in the tight situations, then Federer's UE come to the stage.

It saddens me a bit to say that because I love Federer but, well, it's just true.

Tonight was the second match he lost in a third set tiebreak after having at least a match point in as many weeks. Whereas he didn't seem to care that much against Marcos, tonight he looked so sad when he came to the net. Almost seemed to be on the verge of crying. I really hope this defeat doesn't affect him too much. Stuff like this can really hurt one's confidence.

TheTruth
03-30-2010, 08:44 PM
LOL then you are either crazy or you actually should watch some of the matches (not that someone should need to watch to figure out instantly what is happening when he is losing to completely mediocre players like Baghdatis, Berdych, Fish, Simon, Benneteau, and others with such regularity in Masters the last 2 years). Anyway sorry I worded this thread title wrong. You all know what I mean though.

^^^
Read above then. There's a lot of crazy people on this thread. Many agree he cares. Did you see his reaction when he won the second set? He doesn't care? That would be asinine, knowing you can beat 95% of the tour and rack up title after title, just to say, "no. I'll enter this, but I don't care if I win it or not."

Most great players get better as the tournament goes on. Th early rounds are always the best chance for upsets. When the lower ranked players haven't been given byes and are more used to the conditions and playing surfaces.

In a grand slam tourney, the champions usually rise to the challenge, and have more experience in getting to the finish line. Most great players play patchy early rounds. It happens all the time, but on the final day, when there's so much at stake, they usually settle their nerves and perform at their highest level. That's what separates the men from the boys.

veroniquem
03-30-2010, 08:46 PM
What was intense about it? All the **** easy shots sprayed out of court, LOL! You dont even like Federer so I dont know why you are defending him.
In my point of view, you're the one defending him right now because you're saying that if Fed had really wanted to win that match, he could have and I'm saying he can't. It's a matter of format (3 vs 5 sets) not a matter of motivation (all Fed fans claim Fed "tanks" because they never want to admit he gets outplayed lol) Fed would have lost AO 2009 to Berdych if instead of 5 it had been 3 sets, so that has nothing to do with tanking. It has to do with whether you can wait until the opponent's level goes down or you have to strike right away, which Fed can't anymore vs a number of players.

OKUSA
03-30-2010, 08:46 PM
Federer cared a lot today. You could see it in his body language and determination. However he lost his focus completely in the defining tiebreak. He made 4 or 5 UE with his forehand and that costed him the match, unfortunately.

Truth is, Federer has never truly been a top clutch player when things are really tight. He can pull wins against the likes of Roddick pretty much because those guys are imo not very mentally strong but when he faces someone who forces him to come up with the shots, who forces him to actually win the match in the tight situations, then Federer's UE come to the stage.

It saddens me a bit to say that because I love Federer but, well, it's just true.

Tonight was the second match he lost in a third set tiebreak after having at least a match point in as many weeks. Whereas he didn't seem to care that much against Marcos, tonight he looked so sad when he came to the net. Almost seemed to be on the verge of crying. I really hope this defeat doesn't affect him too much. Stuff like this can really hurt one's confidence.

So Berdych is more mentally strong than Roddick?

davey25
03-30-2010, 08:46 PM
^^^
Read above then. There's a lot of crazy people on this thread. Many agree he cares. Did you see his reaction when he won the second set? He doesn't care? That would be asinine, knowing you can beat 95% of the tour and rack up title after title, just to say, "no. I'll enter this, but I don't care if I win it or not."


Serena shows emotion as she is tanking virtually all her non slam events these days to (and yes even as a Serena fan I concede that is what she does now mostly, focusing on the slams). It doesnt stop everyone from realizing she doesnt really care if the event isnt 1 of the 4 slams, maybe for her Miami (that is a special event for her in a way it isnt for Federer), the WTA Championships, and maybe the Olympics. The only difference is she gets alot of heat for it, while Federer gets a free pass, because she is Serena and people hold her to a different standard than anyone else.

clover
03-30-2010, 08:47 PM
Fed cares. I can't see him giving a half effort. He's a perfectionist and a competitor. When it comes down to it, we all want to win. No one trains just to play four tournaments a year. In Serena's case I think it's true, because she doesn't even play a lot of tournaments outside of the slams. Whenever Fed wins a break point, or a set point he celebrates like everyone else. I think he wants to add as much as he can to his legacy. Why wouldn't he?

Voice of reason.

TheTruth
03-30-2010, 08:47 PM
Excuse me but complete bull (to OP). Does playing an intense third set TB look like tanking to you?Fed would have lost AO 2009 to Berdych and RG 2009 to Haas if those matches had been best of 3. It is not a matter of motivation. In slams, Fed uses his fitness to outlast opponents when he is in trouble, that's all. He waits for them to get tired and then makes his move. When the match is shorter there are currently many players who can beat him.

Agree. His celebration when he won the second set said it all. Even the commentator made a remark about it, and how this blog was talking about Fed didn't care. He cared. I think that is total hogwash, as well.

icedevil0289
03-30-2010, 08:49 PM
In my point of view, you're the one defending him right now because you're saying that if Fed had really wanted to win that match, he could have and I'm saying he can't. It's a matter of format (3 vs 5 sets) not a matter of motivation (all Fed fans claim Fed "tanks" because they never want to admit he gets outplayed lol) Fed would have lost AO 2009 to Berdych if instead of 5 it had been 3 sets, so that has nothing to do with tanking. It has to do with whether you can wait until the opponent's level goes down or you have to strike right away, which Fed can't anymore vs a number of players.

lol. Quite a bit of generalization don't you think? I certainly don't and btw the OP is not a fed fan at all. In fact I'm pretty sure he doesn't like him.

Btw I find it funny you're making generalizations about fed fans and excuses, as if nadal fans don't make excuses themselves, including you.

abraxas21
03-30-2010, 08:50 PM
I think fed cares about these tournaments. Fed is just a lot more vulnerable in best of 3 compared to best of 5. He has had moments of where he has played poorly in grandslams as well, but because they are 5 sets, he has more time to recover. That's clearly not the case here. Fed's game has been patchy for a long time now and it's just more visible in best of 3. The other guys know this and take advantage.

That's true. Over the past 3 years, Federer has usually performed better in GS than in MS. However, while some people try to present the rather stupid idea that he doesn't care about MS and because of that he loses more often in those tournaments, I think that he does care quite a bit but he doesn't have the mental comfort of knowing that he can recover his level while playing the match and that makes him more error-prone and nervous. Hence the bigger amount of UE per set.

rommil
03-30-2010, 08:51 PM
That makes Serena actually more admirable since she atleast many times pulls out rather than wasting peoples time.

Actually Roger and Serena are equal in the sense that they make sure the tennis crew doesn't go hungry. Federer feeds the ballkids pizza while Serena feeds the linepersons tennis balls.

abraxas21
03-30-2010, 08:51 PM
So Berdych is more mentally strong than Roddick?

No but tonight he certainly was.

Mansewerz
03-30-2010, 08:51 PM
Excuse me but complete bull (to OP). Does playing an intense third set TB look like tanking to you?
Fed would have lost AO 2009 to Berdych and RG 2009 to Haas if those matches had been best of 3. It is not a matter of motivation. In slams, Fed uses his fitness to outlast opponents when he is in trouble, that's all. He waits for them to get tired and then makes his move. When the match is shorter there are currently many players who can beat him.

Haas and Berdych were not tired in those matches, Federer wore them down mentally by keeping them out on the court. Haas has great fitness, he's just injury plagued.

davey25
03-30-2010, 08:52 PM
lol. Quite a bit of generalization don't you think? I certainly don't and btw the OP is not a fed fan at all. In fact I'm pretty sure he doesn't like him.

I used to be a Federer fan but in 2004-2006 but you are right I dont like him now, and am certainly not a fan at this moment. In fact I cant stand the guy for the last couple years. It also annoys me that anyone would rate him as a better player than Sampras when it really has been made clear his overall abilities as a tennis player come nowhere near Pete Sampras. Anyway, I still I wouldnt accuse him of doing things like tanking best of 3s if it wasnt obvious to me that was what he was doing. And it wouldnt bother me at all if he wasnt getting a free pass from it from his blind fanatics , while Serena who nearly everyone hates gets raked over the coals for doing the same thing.

icedevil0289
03-30-2010, 08:53 PM
I used to be a Federer fan but in 2004-2006 but you are right I dont like him now, and am certainly not at a fan. In fact I cant stand the guy now. It also annoys me that anyone would rate him as a better player than Sampras when it really has been made clear his overall abilities as a tennis player come nowhere near Pete Sampras. Anyway, I still I wouldnt accuse him of doing things like tanking best of 3s if it wasnt obvious to me that was what he was doing. And it wouldnt bother me at all if he wasnt getting a free pass from it from his blinld fanatics, while Serena who nearly everyone hates gets raked over the coals for doing the same thing.

lol you mean you were a fan of him when he was winning everything left and right. We have a name for people like you "gloryhunter".

David L
03-30-2010, 08:54 PM
Even if he wanted to, Federer could not win every match he plays. Sometimes he is going to lose. There are enough quality players out there to cause upsets from time to time.

Justdoit10
03-30-2010, 08:54 PM
I used to be a Federer fan but in 2004-2006 but you are right I dont like him now, and am certainly not a fan at this moment. In fact I cant stand the guy for the last couple years. It also annoys me that anyone would rate him as a better player than Sampras when it really has been made clear his overall abilities as a tennis player come nowhere near Pete Sampras. Anyway, I still I wouldnt accuse him of doing things like tanking best of 3s if it wasnt obvious to me that was what he was doing. And it wouldnt bother me at all if he wasnt getting a free pass from it from his blind fanatics , while Serena who nearly everyone hates gets raked over the coals for doing the same thing.

Really? LOL. I certainly did not get this memo.

akv89
03-30-2010, 08:56 PM
I used to be a Federer fan but in 2004-2006 but you are right I dont like him now, and am certainly not a fan at this moment. In fact I cant stand the guy for the last couple years. It also annoys me that anyone would rate him as a better player than Sampras when it really has been made clear his overall abilities as a tennis player come nowhere near Pete Sampras. Anyway, I still I wouldnt accuse him of doing things like tanking best of 3s if it wasnt obvious to me that was what he was doing. And it wouldnt bother me at all if he wasnt getting a free pass from it from his blind fanatics , while Serena who nearly everyone hates gets raked over the coals for doing the same thing.

You must a terribly annoyed individual.

mandy01
03-30-2010, 08:56 PM
Serena shows emotion as she is tanking virtually all her non slam events these days to (and yes even as a Serena fan I concede that is what she does now mostly, focusing on the slams). It doesnt stop everyone from realizing she doesnt really care if the event isnt 1 of the 4 slams, maybe for her Miami (that is a special event for her in a way it isnt for Federer), the WTA Championships, and maybe the Olympics. The only difference is she gets alot of heat for it, while Federer gets a free pass, because she is Serena and people hold her to a different standard than anyone else.
I think Federer cares quite a bit about the masters events actually.If not for anything else-most certainly for his ranking which I'm sure he wants to keep up.

davey25
03-30-2010, 08:57 PM
lol you mean you were a fan of him when he was winning everything left and right. We have a name for people like you "gloryhunter".

No, if that were the case I would have started liking him when he won 3 of the last 4 slams. I still dont like. The reasons I stopped liking him are:

1. His ego and at times lack of class which wasnt as apparent to me before became more apparent when things started to go not so well vs him, especialy when Nadal began to really challenge him and gain supremacy over him. Then the crying act at the 2009 AO ceremony which I was not impressed by personally.

2. Some of his prissier behavior. For example that ridiculous manpurse at Wimbledon, etc...Sorry I just dont like that sort of thing.

3. Analazying his game closer I came to realize his not as expertly complete a player as he was made out to be, and that was me like many others buying into alot of the hype which was crowning him tennis GOAT when he had only won 4 slams.

There are other reasons but those are just a start.

David L
03-30-2010, 08:57 PM
I used to be a Federer fan but in 2004-2006 but you are right I dont like him now, and am certainly not a fan at this moment. In fact I cant stand the guy for the last couple years. It also annoys me that anyone would rate him as a better player than Sampras when it really has been made clear his overall abilities as a tennis player come nowhere near Pete Sampras. Anyway, I still I wouldnt accuse him of doing things like tanking best of 3s if it wasnt obvious to me that was what he was doing. And it wouldnt bother me at all if he wasnt getting a free pass from it from his blind fanatics , while Serena who nearly everyone hates gets raked over the coals for doing the same thing.
That's too bad, because it's blatantly obvious he is a better player than Sampras.

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:01 PM
Even if he wanted to, Federer could not win every match he plays. Sometimes he is going to lose. There are enough quality players out there to cause upsets from time to time.

Federer isnt even often losing to quality players in Masters. He is losing to players like Mardy Fish, Julien Benneteau, Ivo Karlovic, Gilles Simon, Marcos Baghdatis (oh I know the majorly fluke AO final will be brought up now, LOL), Tomas Berdych, Stanislas Wawrinka. It would be one thing if he actually was losing to quality players in Masters.

TheTruth
03-30-2010, 09:02 PM
Serena shows emotion as she is tanking virtually all her non slam events these days to (and yes even as a Serena fan I concede that is what she does now mostly, focusing on the slams). It doesnt stop everyone from realizing she doesnt really care if the event isnt 1 of the 4 slams, maybe for her Miami (that is a special event for her in a way it isnt for Federer), the WTA Championships, and maybe the Olympics. The only difference is she gets alot of heat for it, while Federer gets a free pass, because she is Serena and people hold her to a different standard than anyone else.

The statement appears to be true in Serena's case. She withdraws. Plays a limited schedule. Shows up at the grand slams and works her way into the draw. In this case, I would say her actions support this theory.

In Federer's case. He shows up and doesn't play too well in the early rounds, a situation not peculiar to him. Most top players don't play well in the early rounds. Fed is a rhythm player. The longer a match or a tournament goes, the better he will get. The early rounds are the best times to take advantage of top players, unfortunately many of them can't, or don't do it. He cares, but like the other top players he is vulnerable in the beginning of the tournament. This is where the majority of upsets occur.

People give Serena heat for any and everything she does. I doubt it interrupts her sleep patterns though.

rommil
03-30-2010, 09:02 PM
The statement appears to be true in Serena's case. She withdraws. Plays a limited schedule. Shows up at the grand slams and works her way into the draw. In this case, I would say her actions support this theory.

In Federer's case. He shows up and doesn't play too well in the early rounds, a situation not peculiar to him. Most top players don't play well in the early rounds. Fed is a rhythm player. The longer a match or a tournament goes, the better he will get. The early rounds are the best times to take advantage of top players, unfortunately many of them can't, or don't do it. He cares, but like the other top players he is vulnerable in the beginning of the tournament. This is where the majority of upsets occur.

People give Serena heat for any and everything she does. I doubt it interrupts her sleep patterns though.

Nor her eating patterns......

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:05 PM
The statement appears to be true in Serena's case. She withdraws. Plays a limited schedule. Shows up at the grand slams and works her way into the draw. In this case, I would say her actions support this theory.

In Federer's case. He shows up and doesn't play too well in the early rounds, a situation not peculiar to him. Most top players don't play well in the early rounds. Fed is a rhythm player. The longer a match or a tournament goes, the better he will get. The early rounds are the best times to take advantage of top players, unfortunately many of them can't, or don't do it. He cares, but like the other top players he is vulnerable in the beginning of the tournament. This is where the majority of upsets occur.

People give Serena heat for any and everything she does. I doubt it interrupts her sleep patterns though.

Federer also plays a limited schedule. He almost never plays 500 events anymore. He is pulling out of Monte Carlo. He will pull out of Paris as usual almost gauranteed (maybe if the year end #1 is close he might play and actually try for once). He only plays Davis Cup to keep Switzerland in the World Group and skips all other ties. He might pull out of another Masters with some faux pas injury. How is that not limited.

I doubt Serena cares about those who mindlessly bash her either, but those who do like her like myself and others find it annoying to see her bashed for things that others like Federer are also doing but arent.

TheTruth
03-30-2010, 09:07 PM
Nor her eating patterns......

Her job is to play tennis. Everything else is a moot point, especially her eating patterns. It has made her the player on tour with the most grand slams. I'd say whatever she's doing is working. And, to show how great she is, she does it part time.

akv89
03-30-2010, 09:08 PM
Federer isnt even often losing to quality players in Masters. He is losing to players like Mardy Fish, Julien Benneteau, Ivo Karlovic, Gilles Simon, Marcos Baghdatis (oh I know the majorly fluke AO final will be brought up now, LOL), Tomas Berdych, Stanislas Wawrinka. It would be one thing if he actually was losing to quality players in Masters.

Who exactly are you comparing Federer to? Every player has bad losses and Federer has fewer bad losses than most champions which actually contradicts your point. Sampras lost to players of similar if not worse quality in Masters AND Majors. Nadal is still only 23. Wait long enough and he'll be experiencing similar losses.

rommil
03-30-2010, 09:09 PM
Federer also plays a limited schedule. He almost never plays 500 events anymore. He is pulling out of Monte Carlo. He will pull out of Paris as usual almost gauranteed (maybe if the year end #1 is close he might play and actually try for once). He only plays Davis Cup to keep Switzerland in the World Group and skips all other ties. He might pull out of another Masters with some faux pas injury. How is that not limited.

I doubt Serena cares about those who mindlessly bash her either, but those who do like her like myself and others find it annoying to see her bashed for things that others like Federer are also doing but arent.

So what are you planning to do about it? Aside from bellyaching to people in a forum who probably don't want to take your issue seriously. As you can see, you are getting a lot of sympathy here.

OKUSA
03-30-2010, 09:12 PM
Her job is to play tennis. Everything else is a moot point, especially her eating patterns. It has made her the player on tour with the most grand slams. I'd say whatever she's doing is working. And, to show how great she is, she does it part time.

She could probably play more tennis (not sure if she wants to) if she wasn't so large, being that big on a women's frame doesn't exactly help your knee problems

David L
03-30-2010, 09:12 PM
Federer isnt even often losing to quality players in Masters. He is losing to players like Mardy Fish, Julien Benneteau, Ivo Karlovic, Gilles Simon, Marcos Baghdatis (oh I know the majorly fluke AO final will be brought up now, LOL), Tomas Berdych, Stanislas Wawrinka. It would be one thing if he actually was losing to quality players in Masters.
Every dog has his day. These are quality players. On a good day, they can beat anyone in the world. That does not mean they have to be Slam contenders, but in one match they can certainly pull off some big upsets. That's the danger in tennis for the top players, one bad day and you don't get the opportunity to redeem yourself in the same event. Plus the fact that playing Federer is a big deal for everyone, so they all come out with special motivation/inspiration and no pressure whenever they face him, which obviously helps them play better than normal.

In any case, Sampras lost to much worse and by greater numbers.

namelessone
03-30-2010, 09:15 PM
Actually this loss is easily explainable:

1)It's not a slam
2)It's not a slam
3)came back after lung infection
4)it's early on in a masters

I don't know why so many people get their panties in a bunch over this loss. Fed has been a major tanker in early rounds at non-slams for the last three years or so. It is no surprise. It's not that he does not try,but he tries to,for lack of a better word,cruise his way to MS finals. Federer is man who needs challenges. Badly.

Look at Cincy 09'. He was trying badly to tank/choke like he had done with tsonga in montreal,he was gifting ferrer the match in round two but the spaniard was outchoking him badly. So Fed wins and in the last two rounds anihilates djoker and murray. No one changes their game that quickly unless it has something to do with motivation.

I don't know if it affects his champion material but yeah,I think he should try more on certain occassions. But I don't blame him. How much motivation would you have if you beat 90% of the tennis world many times over,won everything that matters,broke 90% of tennis records etc. ?

Fed has motivation only when he meets the young crew(nadal,delpo,murray,djoker) or when he is in a Slam. I think he can even take losses against guys like soderling(he won't have hard feelings cause he helped him win RG),davydenko(owned him the whole of his career),roddick(ditto) and so on.

No matter how much you love tennis it is hard to motivate yourself day in day out. We admire guys with long careers like agassi but forget that most of them had slumps in the middle of their career only to revive themselves later on. Fed had 1 year period where he was slumping(in which he won a slam) but has been going strong since 2003. We are in 2010,8 years will have passed since Fed started winning big. It is tough to keep that up. I think Federer wants to reach the 18 mark on GS and probably then he will retire.

Emet74
03-30-2010, 09:15 PM
Fed says in the press conference that his game has "issues" and he's "lacking confidence."

Sounds like he really doesn't care . . . Give me a break. You don't have to like Fed. Doesn't mean he loses on purpose to annoy you.

rommil
03-30-2010, 09:17 PM
Her job is to play tennis. Everything else is a moot point, especially her eating patterns. It has made her the player on tour with the most grand slams. I'd say whatever she's doing is working. And, to show how great she is, she does it part time.

Yet we can say she could have done better. She is way more talented than what she has achieved so far. Federer has put himself into an excellent form year in and out to stay on top of a much more competitive tour than the women's. It's appalling that we are even trying to compare Serena to Roger. Two different people with very different respects.

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:17 PM
Actually this loss is easily explainable:

1)It's not a slam
2)It's not a slam
3)came back after lung infection
4)it's early on in a masters

I don't know why so many people get their panties in a bunch over this loss. Fed has been a major tanker in early rounds at non-slams for the last three years or so. It is no surprise. It's not that he does not try,but he tries to,for lack of a better word,cruise his way to MS finals. Federer is man who needs challenges. Badly.

Look at Cincy 09'. He was trying badly to tank/choke like he had done with tsonga in montreal,he was gifting ferrer the match in round two but the spaniard was outchoking him badly. So Fed wins and in the last two rounds anihilates djoker and murray. No one changes their game that quickly unless it has something to do with motivation.

I don't know if it affects his champion material but yeah,I think he should try more on certain occassions. But I don't blame him. How much motivation would you have if you beat 90% of the tennis world many times over,won everything that matters,broke 90% of tennis records etc. ?

Fed has motivation only when he meets the young crew(nadal,delpo,murray,djoker) or when he is in a Slam. I think he can even take losses against guys like soderling(he won't have hard feelings cause he helped him win RG),davydenko(owned him the whole of his career),roddick(ditto) and so on.

No matter how much you love tennis it is hard to motivate yourself day in day out. We admire guys with long careers like agassi but forget that most of them had slumps in the middle of their career only to revive themselves later on. Fed had 1 year period where he was slumping(in which he won a slam) but has been going strong since 2003. We are in 2010,8 years will have passed since Fed started winning big. It is tough to keep that up. I think Federer wants to reach the 18 mark on GS and probably then he will retire.

Now that all makes sense and is perfectly fine. My question is why is it ok for him, and Serena Williams who is the same age as Federer gets criticized for the exact same thing, and said she isnt a real #1 since she only cares about the slams (just like Federer whether people are delusional to it or not). That was my question for starting this thread.

mandy01
03-30-2010, 09:22 PM
Now that all makes sense and is perfectly fine. My question is why is it ok for him, and Serena Williams who is the same age as Federer gets criticized for the exact same thing, and said she isnt a real #1 since she only cares about the slams (just like Federer whether people are delusional to it or not). That was my question for starting this thread.
I don't know who said this but again,you're generalizing.Many of us have never criticised Serena for giving preference to majors.Again,you're getting annoyed over something too trivial.
Federer/Nadal and others also get a lot of heat on this forum ( hell,you're handing out some of it in this very thread) for various reasons.
I don't get why Serena getting heat annoys you so much. .

David L
03-30-2010, 09:23 PM
Now that all makes sense and is perfectly fine. My question is why is it ok for him, and Serena Williams who is the same age as Federer gets criticized for the exact same thing, and said she isnt a real #1 since she only cares about the slams (just like Federer whether people are delusional to it or not). That was my question for starting this thread.
Many here are disagreeing with you that Federer does not care, so it is not ok as far as he is concerned.

TMF
03-30-2010, 09:26 PM
Now that all makes sense and is perfectly fine. My question is why is it ok for him, and Serena Williams who is the same age as Federer gets criticized for the exact same thing, and said she isnt a real #1 since she only cares about the slams (just like Federer whether people are delusional to it or not). That was my question for starting this thread.

You are comparing apple to orange. Federer showed up playing IW and Miami. Including charity matches. What did Serena do??? Boycotted IW and then skipped Miami by claiming injury(i doubt it). And these two MS happened to be in her hometown(Miami), but Roger had to travel oversea.

Dude, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.:mad:

abraxas21
03-30-2010, 09:26 PM
Actually this loss is easily explainable:

1)It's not a slam
2)It's not a slam
3)came back after lung infection
4)it's early on in a masters

I don't know why so many people get their panties in a bunch over this loss. Fed has been a major tanker in early rounds at non-slams for the last three years or so. It is no surprise. It's not that he does not try,but he tries to,for lack of a better word,cruise his way to MS finals. Federer is man who needs challenges. Badly.

Look at Cincy 09'. He was trying badly to tank/choke like he had done with tsonga in montreal,he was gifting ferrer the match in round two but the spaniard was outchoking him badly. So Fed wins and in the last two rounds anihilates djoker and murray. No one changes their game that quickly unless it has something to do with motivation.

I don't know if it affects his champion material but yeah,I think he should try more on certain occassions. But I don't blame him. How much motivation would you have if you beat 90% of the tennis world many times over,won everything that matters,broke 90% of tennis records etc. ?

Fed has motivation only when he meets the young crew(nadal,delpo,murray,djoker) or when he is in a Slam. I think he can even take losses against guys like soderling(he won't have hard feelings cause he helped him win RG),davydenko(owned him the whole of his career),roddick(ditto) and so on.

No matter how much you love tennis it is hard to motivate yourself day in day out. We admire guys with long careers like agassi but forget that most of them had slumps in the middle of their career only to revive themselves later on. Fed had 1 year period where he was slumping(in which he won a slam) but has been going strong since 2003. We are in 2010,8 years will have passed since Fed started winning big. It is tough to keep that up. I think Federer wants to reach the 18 mark on GS and probably then he will retire.

If you want to believe that Federer isn't motivated to win matches like the one he lost tonight then I'm afraid you're only seeing what you want to see.

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:26 PM
I don't know who said this but again,you're generalizing.Many of us have never criticised Serena for giving preference to majors.Again,you're getting annoyed over something too trivial.
Federer/Nadal and others also get a lot of heat on this forum ( hell,you're handing out some of it in this very thread) for various reasons.
I don't get why Serena getting heat annoys you so much. .

Have you noticed any of the threads on the forum with Serena is. Nearly every WTA related thread in fact turns into a Serena bashfest, she is fat, she wins only due to weak competition, she only won since so and so choked. She is probably the most hated player on this forum, man or women. That is amongst those who follow the WTA at all. I know many here dont and you might well not be interested at all in the WTA, and I fully respect that.

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:28 PM
If you want to believe that Federer isn't motivated to win matches like the one he lost tonight then I'm afraid you're only seeing what you want to see.

If you dont see he played awful tonight, and does in most of his Masters losses the last 2 years, then you are the one who is seeing things you dont want to see. Of course he could coincidentally just always play poorly despite trying in Masters events now, just like Dementieva could coincidentally be able to hit a 150 mph serve and choose to never show it, right?

abraxas21
03-30-2010, 09:29 PM
Have you noticed any of the threads on the forum with Serena is. Nearly every WTA related thread in fact turns into a Serena bashfest, she is fat, she wins only due to weak competition, she only won since so and so choked. She is probably the most hated player on this forum, man or women. That is amongst those who follow the WTA at all. I know many here dont and you might well not be interested at all in the WTA, and I fully respect that.

Dude, I for one don't care about the WTA or Serena much and quite frankly I don't even know if she doesn't care for the MS as you claim.

All I know is that Fed actually does care for the MS and that's kind of blind to suggest otherwise.

TheTruth
03-30-2010, 09:34 PM
Even if he wanted to, Federer could not win every match he plays. Sometimes he is going to lose. There are enough quality players out there to cause upsets from time to time.

^^^
This.

Nobody wins all the time. There is no reason to overanalyze this loss. In terms of career achievements this match doesn't put a dent in his legacy. This is sport, somebody has to win, and the other person has to lose.

abraxas21
03-30-2010, 09:35 PM
If you dont see he played like garbage tonight, and does in most of his Masters losses the last 2 years, then you are the one who is seeing things you dont want to see.

Notice that I have never claimed that Federer performs in MS as well as he does in GS. In point of fact, I said just the opposite in this very thread.

However, what I find stupid is to attribute this lack of success in MS to the alleged 'fact' that he doesn't care about non-GS tournaments. There are other reasons that actually do make sense.

jamesblakefan#1
03-30-2010, 09:36 PM
It's funny how the OP thinks it's laughable that anyone thinks Federer is better than Sampras, yet ignores some of the guys Pete lost to in non-slam events. These are just in the years Pete finished World's #1. So that leaves out the Mark Keils of the world. :D

1993: Alexander Volkov, Jacco Eltingh, Grant Stafford, Brett Steven, Carlos Costa
1994: Karim Alami, Jacco Eltingh (again), Jaimie Yzaga (USO), Magnus Larsson
1995: Paul Haarhuis, Oliver Gross, Fabrice Santoro, Bernd Karbacher
1996: Paul Haarhuis (again), Marc Rosset
1997: Bohdan Ulihrach, Magnus Larsson (again), Magnus Larsson (again), Magnus Norman (RG)
1998: Fabrice Santoro (again), Ramon Delgado (RG), Mark Woodforde, Leander Paes, Jason Stoltenberg

So um...what was that about only losing to quality players? Pete's the poster boy for only bringing it in the slams, I believe he coined the phrase. So stop it with the bs.

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:36 PM
Notice that I have never claimed that Federer performs in MS as well as he does in GS. In point of fact, I said just the opposite in this very thread.

However, what I find stupid is to attribute this lack of success in MS to the alleged 'fact' that he doesn't care about non-GS tournaments. There are other reasons that actually do make sense.

What are those other reasons? He just coincidentally plays crap in all Masters events now even though he is trying.

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:38 PM
It's funny how the OP thinks it's laughable that anyone thinks Federer is better than Sampras, yet ignores some of the guys Pete lost to in non-slam events. These are just in the years Pete finished World's #1. So that leaves out the Mark Keils of the world. :D

1993: Alexander Volkov, Jacco Eltingh, Grant Stafford, Brett Steven, Carlos Costa
1994: Karim Alami, Jacco Eltingh (again), Jaimie Yzaga (USO), Magnus Larsson
1995: Paul Haarhuis, Oliver Gross, Fabrice Santoro, Bernd Karbacher
1996: Paul Haarhuis (again), Marc Rosset
1997: Bohdan Ulihrach, Magnus Larsson (again), Magnus Larsson (again), Magnus Norman (RG)
1998: Fabrice Santoro (again), Ramon Delgado (RG), Mark Woodforde, Leander Paes, Jason Stoltenberg

So um...what was that about only losing to quality players? Pete's the poster boy for only bringing it in the slams, I believe he coined the phrase. So stop it with the bs.

I am not saying I believe Sampras is clearly a better tennis player than Federer due to their performances in Masters. I just threw that in as a seperate comment which doesnt relate to this thread in explaining what I was not a Federer fan. I believe Sampras skill wise just had a better overall game, was more convincing in his performances, was harder to put down by a main rival (eg- Nadal), faced a tougher overall field of competition. That is another topic altogether though, so please lets not go down there too much here.

jamesblakefan#1
03-30-2010, 09:41 PM
I am not saying I believe Sampras is clearly a better tennis player than Federer due to their performances in Masters. I just threw that in as a seperate comment which doesnt relate to this thread in explaining what I was not a Federer fan. I believe Sampras skill wise just had a better overall game, was more convincing in his performances, was harder to put down by a main rival (eg- Nadal), faced a tougher overall field of competition. That is another topic altogether though, so please lets not go down there too much here.

It is relevant. You're being hard on Fed for the same thing Sampras made famous - only showing up for the slams. At least Fed's waited until a later stage of his career to start piling up the "tankjobs" in non-slam events, Sampras did it his entire career. Why don't you cry about him too?

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:44 PM
It is relevant. You're being hard on Fed for the same thing Sampras made famous - only showing up for the slams. At least Fed's waited until a later stage of his career to start piling up the "tankjobs" in non-slam events, Sampras did it his entire career. Why don't you cry about him too?

Well Sampras is a former Pro so is mostly talked about in the Former Pro section. Sorry I really shouldnt have mentioned him at all in this thread. I should clarify I didnt neccessarily have a problem with Sampras giving a reduced effort in Masters, especialy as he got older. This thread was about how Serena gets bashed endlessly for it and Federer isnt, just comparing the two 28 year old legends who are the most important players of this era obviously. Actually since you bring up Sampras I could throw him into that too. Why do Sampras and Federer both get a free pass from people in turning in an increasing number of arguably "tank like" performances in Masters events as they get older, but Serena doing something like that at was in also an advanced tennis age gets so much more heat for it.

ChiefAce
03-30-2010, 09:45 PM
To everyone that thinks Fed gives his best at these Master's series events.....you don't have a clue. He has been content with getting in some high level matchplay and saving this best stuff and effort for the slams. Seems to be working just fine for him, and his buddy Sampras did the same thing in the latter part of his career. Why put extra mileage on your body when it isn't necessary? Nobody cares how many Miami titles you win, it's how many slams at the end of your career. Murray tanked against Fish as well, no doubt in my mind, especially with his style of play. He'll be fine come slam time.

mandy01
03-30-2010, 09:45 PM
Have you noticed any of the threads on the forum with Serena is. Nearly every WTA related thread in fact turns into a Serena bashfest, she is fat, she wins only due to weak competition, she only won since so and so choked. She is probably the most hated player on this forum, man or women. That is amongst those who follow the WTA at all. I know many here dont and you might well not be interested at all in the WTA, and I fully respect that.
yes,I notice.What I also notice is you whinning about Fed and his competition all the time.It's rather hypocritical of you to cry foul over things you resort to yourself.

TheTruth
03-30-2010, 09:48 PM
Federer also plays a limited schedule. He almost never plays 500 events anymore. He is pulling out of Monte Carlo. He will pull out of Paris as usual almost gauranteed (maybe if the year end #1 is close he might play and actually try for once). He only plays Davis Cup to keep Switzerland in the World Group and skips all other ties. He might pull out of another Masters with some faux pas injury. How is that not limited.

I doubt Serena cares about those who mindlessly bash her either, but those who do like her like myself and others find it annoying to see her bashed for things that others like Federer are also doing but arent.

Federer's schedule is comparable to the others.

Huge disparity in how many matches Serena plays vs. the rest of the tour. It's always been this way.

aprilfool
03-30-2010, 09:49 PM
He certainly seems to do ok at the Clay events. Last year at this juncture he remarked how he was glad that the hard court season was over. It may be that he simply doesn't like the slow hard courts of IW/Miami.

Leelord337
03-30-2010, 09:50 PM
i was just about to make a similar thread... :) but yah he has proved himself already as the Greatest of All Time. I hope he continues to "care" like he did 5 years ago

davey25
03-30-2010, 09:50 PM
To everyone that thinks Fed gives his best at these Master's series events.....you don't have a clue. He has been content with getting in some high level matchplay and saving this best stuff and effort for the slams. Seems to be working just fine for him, and his buddy Sampras did the same thing in the latter part of his career. Why put extra mileage on your body when it isn't necessary? Nobody cares how many Miami titles you win, it's how many slams at the end of your career. Murray tanked against Fish as well, no doubt in my mind, especially with his style of play. He'll be fine come slam time.

I agree with this. I dont see how anyone can watch Federer play these Masters and say he is giving an all out effort. Even if tanking is a strong and exagerrated word perhaps, there is no way he is giving it 100% as some posters in this thread seem to actually believe he is (I guess I need those special high tech glasses to see what they are seeing in that case).

Leelord337
03-30-2010, 09:52 PM
i was just about to make a similar thread... :) but yah he has proved himself already as the Greatest of All Time. I hope he continues to "care" like he did 5 years ago, fed also needs to stop wearing these stupid looking clothes, no more preacher collar shirts

TheTruth
03-30-2010, 09:55 PM
i was just about to make a similar thread... :) but yah he has proved himself already as the Greatest of All Time. I hope he continues to "care" like he did 5 years ago, fed also needs to stop wearing these stupid looking clothes, no more preacher collar shirts

I like his outfit. I think it looks good with his coloring. Those drab colors tend to wash him out.

aprilfool
03-30-2010, 09:55 PM
He certainly seems to do ok at the Clay events. Last year at this juncture he remarked how he was glad that the hard court season was over. It may be that he simply doesn't like the slow hard courts of IW/Miami.

TMF
03-30-2010, 09:56 PM
This thread is stupid. There isn't any relationship between Roger and Serena. Roger showed up to play, and that's the reason why he's always stay at #1. Serena skipped tournaments b/c she's not committed to tennis as Roger. The consequence was losing her #1, and then blame the flaw of the WTA ranking point system(b/c non-slam winner was #1). How can the OP compare a player who boycotted the tournament with another player actually show up to play is laughable.

abraxas21
03-30-2010, 09:58 PM
What are those other reasons? He just coincidentally plays crap in all Masters events now even though he is trying.

ask fed yourself. after all, he did say this in the press conference:

My game has issues at the moment. Iím definitely lacking timing. I donít know where that comes from

Maybe you explain to him that his game was off because YOU KNOW he doesn't care about MS!

But then again, he also said this:

I don't like to lose these type of matches

He surely must be lying... Cunning guy this Federer.

rommil
03-30-2010, 09:58 PM
Well Sampras is a former Pro so is mostly talked about in the Former Pro section. Sorry I really shouldnt have mentioned him at all in this thread. I should clarify I didnt neccessarily have a problem with Sampras giving a reduced effort in Masters, especialy as he got older. This thread was about how Serena gets bashed endlessly for it and Federer isnt, just comparing the two 28 year old legends who are the most important players of this era obviously. Actually since you bring up Sampras I could throw him into that too. Why do Sampras and Federer both get a free pass from people in turning in an increasing number of arguably "tank like" performances in Masters events as they get older, but Serena doing something like that at was in also an advanced tennis age gets so much more heat for it.


Listen, it has already been said to you that they all got criticisms for it so don't use the phrase "free pass", it gets in the way of you understanding the matter, which is what you are looking for, right? Obviously, you have an inclination to Serena so you feel more about criticisms against her. Also, please don't equate Federer with Serena. Roger's commitment to himself, to the sports and charities, his maintenace of being in the top echelon of men's tennis over the years is way above what Serena has put in. As a matter of fact, I can tell you I have way more respect for Venus than Serena even though she has achieved lesser in term of records compared to Serena. Does this reflect the general consensus? I can't tell you but it might help you shed light on the answers you are looking for.

David L
03-30-2010, 09:58 PM
What are those other reasons? He just coincidentally plays crap in all Masters events now even though he is trying.
He has said he is more relaxed in best of 5 because he knows there is a long way to the finish line. He feels less pressure. In a best of 3, things can end very quickly. He also has more time to find his game in best of 5

It's much easier for a lower ranked opponent to sustain a good period of play and ambush the favourite in best of 3 than it is in best of 5.

Also, for the Slams, there is a long lead up period of tournaments that allows you to get a lot of match practice and find your game. With a lot of the Masters events, Federer is coming in cold turkey with no or very little lead up period to prepare properly, so he's more vulnerable to super-inspired players. He has often snuck through tight encounters when his game was not at its best and he was a little cagey, only to improve as the tournament went on. This is not going to work out every time however. From time to time the other player will come through.

mandy01
03-30-2010, 09:58 PM
I like his outfit. I think it looks good with his coloring. Those drab colors tend to wash him out.
I agree.I got sick of the blue.Seemed as if Nike was determined to exhaust every existing shade of blue on his clothing.

icedevil0289
03-30-2010, 10:01 PM
I agree.I got sick of the blue.Seemed as if Nike was determined to exhaust every existing shade of blue on his clothing.

I know. I was so happy not to see blue, that when I saw the orange, I automatically kissed the ground in happiness. No, but really the orange looked really good on him and it wasn't one of his typically collared shirts.

OrangeOne
03-30-2010, 10:14 PM
Federer has tanked virtually all his Masters events for the last 2-3 years now. Now that he has the Slam records he wants he will do that even more often. If Nadal had 16 slams....

....he doesn't. He actually has fractionally more than one-third that number, so perhaps it's time to stop pontificating about the absurd.

rommil
03-30-2010, 10:25 PM
....he doesn't. He actually has fractionally more than one-third that number, so perhaps it's time to stop pontificating about the absurd.

......and not showing up to defend a GS title or quitting in matches at Grand Slam events doesn't help either.

zagor
03-30-2010, 10:36 PM
Funny,how his tankjobs are all tight 3 setters with a tiebreak in the deciding set lately.Must be quite a masohist this Fed fellow.

OrangeOne
03-30-2010, 10:39 PM
Funny,how his tankjobs are all tight 3 setters with a tiebreak in the deciding set lately.Must be quite a masohist this Fed fellow.

Yeah, and he seems to be tanking after winning a round or 3. What's the point there? Why not tank in the 1st round ;)

thalivest
03-30-2010, 10:42 PM
Funny,how his tankjobs are all tight 3 setters with a tiebreak in the deciding set lately.Must be quite a masohist this Fed fellow.

He either tanks or he is becoming a crappy player all of a sudden, playing D- quality tennis and losing to clowns like Berdych and Baghdatis. Take your own pick.

jamesblakefan#1
03-30-2010, 10:46 PM
He either tanks or he is becoming a crappy player all of a sudden, playing D- quality tennis and losing to clowns like Berdych and Baghdatis. Take your own pick.

Or *gasp*, he's human, and he loses every once in a while. Yay for taking one match to make grand generalizations!!! :D

thalivest
03-30-2010, 10:48 PM
Or *gasp*, he's human, and he loses every once in a while. Yay for taking one match to make grand generalizations!!! :D

Nadal may lose but he would never put on the kind of performance Federer put on today or vs Baghdatis in Indian Wells, even in defeat. Too much pride, too much character, not to mention sheer talent. Even his "off days" are not that bad, in large part since his warrior attitude would not let them get that bad.

jamesblakefan#1
03-30-2010, 10:49 PM
Nadal may lose but he would never put on the kind of performance Federer put on today or vs Baghdatis in Indian Wells, even in defeat. Too much pride, too much character, not to mention sheer talent. Even his "off days" are not that bad, in large part since his warrior attitude would not let them get that bad.

You're right. Federer has no pride, no talent, and has the character of Charles Manson. Nadal is a god amongst men who would give his left testacle to win a match. It's all becoming so clear now.

dropshot winner
03-30-2010, 10:55 PM
Nadal may lose but he would never put on the kind of performance Federer put on today or vs Baghdatis in Indian Wells, even in defeat. Too much pride, too much character, not to mention sheer talent. Even his "off days" are not that bad, in large part since his warrior attitude would not let them get that bad.

Like when Nadal won like 2 of the first 20 points against Cilic, and hardly games there after?
Or when he played absolutely atrocious tennis against Djokovic in London (had to watch that crap live).

Where was his "warrior attitude" those days?

zagor
03-30-2010, 10:59 PM
He either tanks or he is becoming a crappy player all of a sudden, playing D- quality tennis and losing to clowns like Berdych and Baghdatis. Take your own pick.

For starters I don't consider Berdych or Bagdathis to be clowns but yes Fed is not as good as he was and is more prone to upsets in general.

Nadal may lose but he would never put on the kind of performance Federer put on today or vs Baghdatis in Indian Wells, even in defeat. Too much pride, too much character, not to mention sheer talent. Even his "off days" are not that bad, in large part since his warrior attitude would not let them get that bad.

Yes and Fed has too much pride,too much character not to mention sheer talent to ever quit in a match in his whole career(not once)and certainly not failing to show up to defend his slam title.

As for Nadal's off days not being as bad as Fed's,first of all tell me that again when he's 28-29 and second Nadal plays with a bigger margin than Fed,his game is much more high% so of course you aren't gonna see him lose matches spraying UFE all over the place because he's not that type of player.

David L
03-30-2010, 11:04 PM
Nadal may lose but he would never put on the kind of performance Federer put on today or vs Baghdatis in Indian Wells, even in defeat. Too much pride, too much character, not to mention sheer talent. Even his "off days" are not that bad, in large part since his warrior attitude would not let them get that bad.
Nadal plays with a much larger margin for error. Even on his bad days, he gets to enough balls and moonballs them back to keep in the rally. Nadal gives opponents the opportunity to play, because he is a defensive player. He wants the opponent to beat themselves by eventually missing enough of his gets. A bad day is him getting blown off the court by an aggressive and consistent player.

Federer plays a totally different game. His game is more attacking. He hits lower over the net, averages more mph on his ground strokes, pulls the trigger earlier, approaches the net more etc. He is a more aggressive player than Nadal, so if he is having a bad day, that results in more errors. It has nothing to do with one guy trying harder than the other, they simply play the game differently and Federer's way has brought the most success.

billnepill
03-31-2010, 12:52 AM
Lets face it. Federer basically tanks almost all the best of 3 events he is in today. If some dont like me putting it that way too bad, frankly speaking that is what he does. He puts in half assed efforts vs mediocre opponents he would never lose to (and rarely come close to losing to) in a slam. Now I am a Serena Williams fan but she to many extent does the same thing. The only difference is Federer gets a free pass for it, he never gets criticized for it. People say "he is saving himself for the slams" or even more ridiculously "so and so third tier or worse player was too good today" each time. Please. Federer doesnt give half a damn about the non slams. Which is fine, as long as if someone like Serena gets criticized for it he should as well, or if it is ok for him to save himself for the slams and give a half assed effort in all his best of 3 tournaments it should be for her as well. What double standards.

trolling

If there are double standards - it's not Federer's fault.

I guess the people that have double standards are the people on the forums, commentators and tennis analysts. Yet the thread's name is "Fed doesn't care.."

Davey, it's sure that you don't care about Serena, double standards, etc. It's about your hate towards Federer. The trolling is so obvious and expected, people don't think it's necessary mentioning it.

anointedone
03-31-2010, 01:54 AM
trolling

If there are double standards - it's not Federer's fault.

I guess the people that have double standards are the people on the forums, commentators and tennis analysts. Yet the thread's name is "Fed doesn't care.."

Davey, it's sure that you don't care about Serena, double standards, etc. It's about your hate towards Federer. The trolling is so obvious and expected, people don't think it's necessary mentioning it.

You make no sense at all. Federer not caring about Masters events much in the last year or two is not exactly some new revelation. Have you been living under a rock or something?

billnepill
03-31-2010, 01:03 PM
You make no sense at all. Federer not caring about Masters events much in the last year or two is not exactly some new revelation. Have you been living under a rock or something?

learn to read

Federer mainly focuses on Slams and everybody knows it. The message above should be addressed to the OP, because he is the one who has started a brand new thread about it, with the slight focus on Serena, double standards etc. The real reason is to have a little bit of trash talk about Federer (again).

If you have further problems with comprehension of the posts, don't hesitate to ask.

sureshs
03-31-2010, 01:04 PM
Nadal plays with a much larger margin for error. Even on his bad days, he gets to enough balls and moonballs them back to keep in the rally. Nadal gives opponents the opportunity to play, because he is a defensive player. He wants the opponent to beat themselves by eventually missing enough of his gets. A bad day is him getting blown off the court by an aggressive and consistent player.

Federer plays a totally different game. His game is more attacking. He hits lower over the net, averages more mph on his ground strokes, pulls the trigger earlier, approaches the net more etc. He is a more aggressive player than Nadal, so if he is having a bad day, that results in more errors. It has nothing to do with one guy trying harder than the other, they simply play the game differently and Federer's way has brought the most success.

Exactly right. Federer said his timing was off in the Birdie match. He doesn't play high percentage tennis and when things start going wrong, he has no Plan B.