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View Full Version : Why is Murray branded a pusher rather than a tactician?


Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 04:13 AM
Murray has a huge serve, a powerful forehand, a powerful backhand. Andy doe also hit a lot of junk and lobs but why is that "pushing".

The term "push" is exactly like it sounds. It's someone who merely "pushes" the ball with nothing on it smack in the middle of the court dareing you to hit a winner. There is no spin on the ball and it's smack in the middle of the court . Just a freaking sitter that is screaming "my grandmother can put this ball away.....come on girly man"......and then the pusher just runs your put away shot down amd merely "pushes" right back for yet another sitter daring you to put it away. You miss yet again and want to kill yourself amd the "pusher".

This is not at all what Andy does . Yes he can hit a dropper and then lob it over your head in a cat and mouse game but that is NOT pushing!!! That's tactics!!

He also can amd does hit with a Ton of power both on serves and ground strokes .

Dark Tempest
03-31-2010, 04:25 AM
muz = pusher

dcdoorknob
03-31-2010, 04:29 AM
He's branded a pusher because its more derogatory, and the people that call him that are more interested in putting him down than being accurate.

DRII
03-31-2010, 04:31 AM
Thats the point!

Murray can hit with great power and penetration, yet often time chooses not to...

And lately: he tries to force aggression, if his normal passive game isn't working, and makes errors.

Murray is often too passive (again by choice) and this is why I classify him as a pusher albeit with great defensive skills.

Another player he is sometimes compared to for whatever reason is Hewitt. I don't think Hewitt is or was a pusher, because he was not able to hit with superior power (unlike Murray).

PimpMyGame
03-31-2010, 04:32 AM
Murray has a huge serve, a powerful forehand, a powerful backhand. Andy doe also hit a lot of junk and lobs but why is that "pushing".

The term "push" is exactly like it sounds. It's someone who merely "pushes" the ball with nothing on it smack in the middle of the court dareing you to hit a winner. There is no spin on the ball and it's smack in the middle of the court . Just a freaking sitter that is screaming "my grandmother can put this ball away.....come on girly man"......and then the pusher just runs your put away shot down amd merely "pushes" right back for yet another sitter daring you to put it away. You miss yet again and want to kill yourself amd the "pusher".

This is not at all what Andy does . Yes he can hit a dropper and then lob it over your head in a cat and mouse game but that is NOT pushing!!! That's tactics!!

He also can amd does hit with a Ton of power both on serves and ground strokes .

I agree entirely and am sure that you will welcome some constructive debate to this thread. Unlike the crap sprouting from TT's newest troll in post #2.

What a nob.

rovex
03-31-2010, 04:34 AM
muz = pusher

You remind me of someone....but WHO!?

dropshot winner
03-31-2010, 04:35 AM
Thats the point!

Murray can hit with great power and penetration, yet often time chooses not to...

And lately: he tries to force aggression, if his normal passive game isn't working, and makes errors.

Murray is often too passive (again by choice) and this is why I classify him as a pusher albeit with great defensive skills.

Another player he is sometimes compared to for whatever reason is Hewitt. I don't think Hewitt is or was a pusher, because he was not able to hit with superior power (unlike Murray).

So Hewitt isn't a pusher but Murray is because Murray has more power than Hewitt? :confused:

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 04:36 AM
Thats the point!

Murray can hit with great power and penetration, yet often time chooses not to...

And lately: he tries to force aggression, if his normal passive game isn't working, and makes errors.

Murray is often too passive (again by choice) and this is why I classify him as a pusher albeit with great defensive skills.

Another player he is sometimes compared to for whatever reason is Hewitt. I don't think Hewitt is or was a pusher, because he was not able to hit with superior power (unlike Murray).

can you show me an example of this so called "pushing" via you tube or something?

rovex
03-31-2010, 04:36 AM
I don't think Hewitt is or was a pusher, because he was not able to hit with superior power (unlike Murray).

Nice paradox!

Dark Tempest
03-31-2010, 04:39 AM
I agree entirely and am sure that you will welcome some constructive debate to this thread. Unlike the crap sprouting from TT's newest troll in post #2.

What a nob.

reported u go bye bye now.

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 04:41 AM
Apparently I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Here's a video entitled "Murray just a pusher part 1". After watching it you will never call Andy a pusher again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8jdpmCaVE&feature=youtube_gdata

DRII
03-31-2010, 04:45 AM
So Hewitt isn't a pusher but Murray is because Murray has more power than Hewitt? :confused:

IMO, yes...

because Murray has the power, yet to often chooses not to use it.

Hewit doesn't have the power, its not there for him to pick and choose when to deploy it...

PimpMyGame
03-31-2010, 04:48 AM
reported u go bye bye now.

A bit quick off the mark for a "new" user methinks. Anyway, enough of both of us hijacking this thread.

raiden031
03-31-2010, 04:48 AM
can you show me an example of this so called "pushing" via you tube or something?

Just watch the AO 10 final. Murray plays like a pansy. He is afraid to take control of a point when he has offensive opportunities. When he should (AND CAN) hit a winner, he chooses to hit a conservative shot up the middle. He is a poor tactician because he doesn't know when to go for a shot and when not to. When in doubt, he chooses not to go for his shots and pays the price when he faces a guy like Fed in a slam.

dropshot winner
03-31-2010, 04:54 AM
IMO, yes...

because Murray has the power, yet to often chooses not to use it.

Hewit doesn't have the power, its not there for him to pick and choose when to deploy it...

Sorry that doesn't make sense. "Pusher" is about what you do on court, not how agressive you play in comparison to your attacking capabilities.

Needless to say that neither Murray or Hewitt are pushers.

sh@de
03-31-2010, 05:16 AM
Because people use it as a way to laugh at him. If Murray played aggressive, he'd probably have won slams already. But noooo he chooses to play passive most of the time, there's the key, most, not all (i.e. he does play aggressive sometimes and when he does that, it's great to watch). Yet he likes playing passive, and it's just so frustrating and boring, and his negative attitude in general makes it worse. Another thing is that his game resembles that of a pusher's the most out of the top pros (i.e. top 15/20) so people call him a pusher even though obviously he isn't (because no pros are pushers). All of that plus the fact that he looks freakin ugly make people like calling him a pusher to put him down.

I like calling him a pusher :p

ReopeningWed
03-31-2010, 05:21 AM
The term pusher is much more intimidating, and its use to describe Murray actually originated from his mother.
If she hadn't secretly spread its use (for example, Mommy Murray's multiple accounts on TW), we would be comparing him with the likes of DelPo. Murray just lobs and hits drop shots when his mom tells him to, so the word is more fitting for him.
Even 7.0+ players hate pushers.

DRII
03-31-2010, 05:38 AM
Sorry that doesn't make sense. "Pusher" is about what you do on court, not how agressive you play in comparison to your attacking capabilities.

Needless to say that neither Murray or Hewitt are pushers.

I completely disagree...

If what you do on court is often times play passively compared to what you are capable of, then you are a pusher.

Pusher is a relative term. Any pro would not be a pusher as compared to a recreational player. But judged against each other (or even agaisnt how a player has played in the past) ,particularly players at the top, pros can be pushers (relatively speaking).

Murray is one such example...

Peters
03-31-2010, 05:44 AM
Ah, the old 'Pusher Murray' bandwagon is rolling into TT town again.

It seems to make a stop here about 3 times a week in the form of a new thread. It's almost as if these people predictably spouting the exact same inane nonsense want to be considered devoid of any originality or individual thought.

If that's the case, then 'congratulations' I guess. You've succeeded!

dropshot winner
03-31-2010, 05:50 AM
I completely disagree...

If what you do on court is often times play passively compared to what you are capable of, then you are a pusher.

Pusher is a relative term. Any pro would not be a pusher as compared to a recreational player. But judged against each other (or even agaisnt how a player has played in the past) ,particularly players at the top, pros can be pushers (relatively speaking).

Murray is one such example...

By this logic a player with no weapons trying to be more agressive is a ballbasher.

Murray was accused by many on TT of pushing in the Wimbledon SF, which is nonsense. Sure he did play too passive on some key points, but he had a very solid winner/ue ratio.

Even Agassi whom no one would describe as a pusher played the "keep the ball in play"-kind of game towards the end his career, he wasn't called "The Punisher" for nothing. It's about using your phyiscal edge as an advantage.

batz
03-31-2010, 06:03 AM
People use it because it's an ill-defined, subjective, derogatory term. This allows them to belittle his achievements by implying that they were done the easy way. That if Murray played the game 'properly (which appears to mean hitting the ball real hard every time but I'm still not quite sure), then he wouldn't be able to achieve what he does.

DRII
03-31-2010, 06:05 AM
By this logic a player with no weapons trying to be more agressive is a ballbasher.

Murray was accused by many on TT of pushing in the Wimbledon SF, which is nonsense. Sure he did play too passive on some key points, but he had a very solid winner/ue ratio.

Even Agassi whom no one would describe as a pusher played the "keep the ball in play"-kind of game towards the end his career, he wasn't called "The Punisher" for nothing. It's about using your phyiscal edge as an advantage.

Yeah D.W., I see your point.

But Agassi never played passively. He at times played safe and percentage tennis, but took his chances when the oppurtunity arose.

Again, it is all relatively.

Roddick is a player i would deem playing safe and relatively percentage tennis right now. He's not as aggressive as he used to be, but I wouldn't classify him as passive either.

Murray on the other hand is playing too passive too often, which makes him a pusher in my mind. He still has the defensive skills to out-manuver his opponents and therefore hit winners in that way.

harryz
03-31-2010, 06:17 AM
That's why. He doesn't attack the ball very often, even though he can. He tends to wait for the other player to miss. Yes, he constructs points and plays crafty tennis with imagination and variety. He also moves great and thinks well on the court. At the same time, he is a reactive player who tends to let the other player take the game to him, not vice versa. Pusher is not a fair term, I agree, but it's hard to watch a guy with big game tools choosing to play passive and defensive tennis so often. The comparison to Hewitt is apt. He's also a bit like Michael Chang, who was out of his comfort zone when he tried to attack to much. I agree with the poster who said that he has more options than Hewitt, which is why it can be frustrating to watch Murray play. He doesn't throw himself at the ball or attack it, and I think these are the reasons for the put downs.

dropshot winner
03-31-2010, 06:31 AM
Yeah D.W., I see your point.

But Agassi never played passively. He at times played safe and percentage tennis, but took his chances when the oppurtunity arose.

Again, it is all relatively.

Roddick is a player i would deem playing safe and relatively percentage tennis right now. He's not as aggressive as he used to be, but I wouldn't classify him as passive either.

Murray on the other hand is playing too passive too often, which makes him a pusher in my mind. He still has the defensive skills to out-manuver his opponents and therefore hit winners in that way.

What you forget is that Murray got some of his biggest wins (those over Federer and most over Djokovic) and titles with his defense.

Murray can't just hit the ball harder without making considerably more errors.
We know that he can hit 100mph forehands, but doing that on a big point when you're not convinced that it'll go in is a recipe for disaster.

Roddick's current game (not Wimbledon 09) is just as defensive as Murray (and less smart).
Roddick gets away with it more often because he has a bigger serve (esp. 2nd delivery).

jamesblakefan#1
03-31-2010, 06:41 AM
Because people who dislike Murray like to throw the term "pusher" out to ridicule him and use it as a reason why they hate him. It's one thing to not like his game, but to call him a pusher is just uninformed and stupid.

dh003i
03-31-2010, 07:05 AM
What you forget is that Murray got some of his biggest wins (those over Federer and most over Djokovic) and titles with his defense.

Murray can't just hit the ball harder without making considerably more errors.
We know that he can hit 100mph forehands, but doing that on a big point when you're not convinced that it'll go in is a recipe for disaster.

Roddick's current game (not Wimbledon 09) is just as defensive as Murray (and less smart).
Roddick gets away with it more often because he has a bigger serve (esp. 2nd delivery).

Right, which is why he needs to make a conscious effort to change his game yto be more aggressive, more dictating. Since Federer winning Wimbledon in 2003, the guys who have won slams have all been guys who have dictated the match-play when winning slams; even Nadal. Since Fed '03, there has not been a player who won a GS who consistently let the other player dictate the point, and just played reactive tennis.

To be sure, Murray tries to dictate play against some players -- mostly, just against Nadal on HC. But when he runs into Federer -- and probably also Delpo or Cilic -- then he does not make the effort to dictate play.

jamesblakefan#1
03-31-2010, 07:08 AM
Right, which is why he needs to make a conscious effort to change his game yto be more aggressive, more dictating. Since Federer winning Wimbledon in 2003, the guys who have won slams have all been guys who have dictated the match-play when winning slams; even Nadal. Since Fed '03, there has not been a player who won a GS who consistently let the other player dictate the point, and just played reactive tennis.

To be sure, Murray tries to dictate play against some players -- mostly, just against Nadal on HC. But when he runs into Federer -- and probably also Delpo or Cilic -- then he does not make the effort to dictate play.

And he still has winning h2hs against all 3 of those guys, sizable ones over JMDP and Cilic. Just sayin...

OKUSA
03-31-2010, 07:16 AM
Murray big forehands? 100 mph forehands? I don't think i've seen him actually hit the forehand hard

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:19 AM
Murray big forehands? 100 mph forehands? I don't think i've seen him actually hit the forehand hard

Maybe you missed this?:

Here's a video entitled "Murray just a pusher part 1". After watching it you will never call Andy a pusher again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8jdpmCaVE&feature=youtube_gdata

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:21 AM
PART II :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOB6MJvjH9U&feature=related

rovex
03-31-2010, 07:23 AM
PART II :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOB6MJvjH9U&feature=related

Wow, didn't realise how huge he was hitting the ball at the USO. Nice videos.

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:30 AM
The term pusher is much more intimidating, and its use to describe Murray actually originated from his mother.
If she hadn't secretly spread its use (for example, Mommy Murray's multiple accounts on TW), we would be comparing him with the likes of DelPo. Murray just lobs and hits drop shots when his mom tells him to, so the word is more fitting for him.
Even 7.0+ players hate pushers.

I'm glad you said that. just take a look at what murray does to del potro in "Murrays a Pusher? part 3" (and federer and Nadal on red clay!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvsX37XQE7c&feature=related

dropshot winner
03-31-2010, 07:37 AM
Right, which is why he needs to make a conscious effort to change his game yto be more aggressive, more dictating. Since Federer winning Wimbledon in 2003, the guys who have won slams have all been guys who have dictated the match-play when winning slams; even Nadal. Since Fed '03, there has not been a player who won a GS who consistently let the other player dictate the point, and just played reactive tennis.

To be sure, Murray tries to dictate play against some players -- mostly, just against Nadal on HC. But when he runs into Federer -- and probably also Delpo or Cilic -- then he does not make the effort to dictate play.
That's simply not true. Against Federer Murray has to deal with very different shots. Federer is a lot closer to the baseline than Nadal AND hits more penetrating shots. It's WAY easier to be aggressive on hardcourts off Nadal's loopy groundstrokes, even Robredo managed to do it.

Murray did exactly the right thing at the AO by playing to Federer's backhand.
Usually he would've gotten lots of short ball or an error, this time Federer was just too good. It's very possible that Murray beats Federer in a slam the next time with exactly the same gameplan.

You can't seriously expect from Murray that he engages in forehand battles with Federer.

swordtennis
03-31-2010, 07:38 AM
It would not be surprising to see Andy make a move in the clay season. A final or semi at the French. My gut feeling might be wrong tho.

OKUSA
03-31-2010, 07:41 AM
I'm talking about 2010, did he ever hit a forehand hard? The majority are top spin that land half way into the service box

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:45 AM
Murray is a lot of things. Love or hate the guy thats your right....but as evidenced by the viseos....he is clearly not a "Pusher".

so we done now?

decades
03-31-2010, 07:45 AM
because we don't like him so we think of ways to make Murray lovers angry.

volleynets
03-31-2010, 07:47 AM
I don't think he is a pusher. Pushers can't serve over 130 mph and cant hit strokes over 90 mph. Wozniacki is a pusher. When on the run she hits lobs 50 feet in the air to get back into position. Murray has dangerous weapons.

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:48 AM
MURRAY JUST A PUSHER? PART 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rpXJnOV-lg&feature=related

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:50 AM
because we don't like him so we think of ways to make Murray lovers angry.

Oh that makes sense.

Its not really working though.

OKUSA
03-31-2010, 07:58 AM
I don't think he is a pusher. Pushers can't serve over 130 mph and cant hit strokes over 90 mph. Wozniacki is a pusher. When on the run she hits lobs 50 feet in the air to get back into position. Murray has dangerous weapons.

So does almost everyone mens or womens tennis, only like a small majority of the time do they actually go for winners when they are on the run and terribly out of position

Chezbeeno
03-31-2010, 07:58 AM
he never does anything exciting, he's a grade a pusher, a pushaholic, the kind of player everyone dreads playing in a tournament

DRII
03-31-2010, 08:07 AM
Because people who dislike Murray like to throw the term "pusher" out to ridicule him and use it as a reason why they hate him. It's one thing to not like his game, but to call him a pusher is just uninformed and stupid.

How can you be such a defensive cry-baby and an offensive brat at the same time? I wish Murray played more the way you engage in a discussion.

FYI, I do not dislike Murray.

I do find his game frustrating at times. He clearly needs to learn to be more offensive more often in the big matches.

jamesblakefan#1
03-31-2010, 08:25 AM
How can you be such a defensive cry-baby and an offensive brat at the same time? I wish Murray played more the way you engage in a discussion.

FYI, I do not dislike Murray.

I do find his game frustrating at times. He clearly needs to learn to be more offensive more often in the big matches.

Where did that come from? I wasn't talking about you, but I'm sorry you took it that way. :?

batz
03-31-2010, 08:26 AM
I'm talking about 2010, did he ever hit a forehand hard? The majority are top spin that land half way into the service box

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHXjdmgN9Y0

I think he did once.

coloskier
03-31-2010, 09:01 AM
A pusher by definition is anyone who wins a majority of his matches from his opponents unforced errors rather than by his own winners.

batz
03-31-2010, 09:09 AM
A pusher by definition is anyone who wins a majority of his matches from his opponents unforced errors rather than by his own winners.

And this defintion may be found where?

www.pullstuffoutofmyassandpresentitasfact.com?

Blinkism
03-31-2010, 09:10 AM
Murray is a tactician.

His tactics include being a hopeless pusher, acting like a brat, and losing to Federer in Grand Slam finals.

World Beater
03-31-2010, 09:17 AM
murray is a tactician. It just so happens that pushing allows him to win a lot. But against players like fed and nadal, pushing aint gonna cut it.

he has figured it out against nadal but fed is his thorn.But keep in mind that fed has been in god-mode when he played murray in those two slam finals.

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 09:20 AM
murray is a tactician. It just so happens that pushing allows him to win a lot. But against players like fed and nadal, pushing aint gonna cut it.

he has figured it out against nadal but fed is his thorn.But keep in mind that fed has been in god-mode when he played murray in those two slam finals.

Of coures fed is always in God Mode when he wins but not playing his best when he loses. We know this because his fans and fed himself always say so. :shock:

Now I have shown four videos and i dont see where he pushes. can you show me any video anywhere where Murray was pushing?:confused:

rovex
03-31-2010, 09:26 AM
Now I have shown four videos and i dont see where he pushes. can you show me any video anywhere where Murray was pushing?:confused:

You are going to have to go deep inside my brain i'm afraid...

Blinkism
03-31-2010, 09:35 AM
Of coures fed is always in God Mode when he wins but not playing his best when he loses. We know this because his fans and fed himself always say so. :shock:

Now I have shown four videos and i dont see where he pushes. can you show me any video anywhere where Murray was pushing?:confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqX0-fx8Eqw

Murrays the biggest pusher since Pushy McPush. But he wins.

:lol:

World Beater
03-31-2010, 11:01 AM
Of coures fed is always in God Mode when he wins but not playing his best when he loses. We know this because his fans and fed himself always say so. :shock:



ok. where exactly did i imply this? Federer played well in those two slam finals. that is really all i said. if you want to be a troll. that is your problem

Semi-Pro
03-31-2010, 11:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHXjdmgN9Y0

I think he did once.

Judy was so happy in that video. Too bad her son got raped in straight sets in the finals...

OKUSA
03-31-2010, 11:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHXjdmgN9Y0

I think he did once.

Yeah I knew about that, but I'm talking about rallies where he hits it short of the service line over and over and over again. This year he never flattens out and hits winners from the baseline with the forehand

jamesblakefan#1
03-31-2010, 11:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHXjdmgN9Y0

I think he did once.

Pushers do not have it in them to hit shots like that.

Shaolin
03-31-2010, 11:30 AM
Murray is a guy with a lot of weapons yet choses to push and grind it out for whatever reason. He might have a major to his name right now if he decided to use his whole offensive skill set.

Blinkism
03-31-2010, 11:43 AM
Pushers do not have it in them to hit shots like that.

Cool story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP9U7_pktpg

18X20Newbie
03-31-2010, 12:25 PM
I too am confused about this term "pusher". In terms of game "style", wouldn't Rafa be in this conversation? Or is he different because he turns defensive shots to offensive winners? Isn't this the only difference between Murray and Rafa?

Can someone clearly define these playing "styles" and maybe name CURRENT players that have those styles?

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 12:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqX0-fx8Eqw



:lol:

Which particular shot did you think was pushing? I didn't see even one.

coloskier
03-31-2010, 02:19 PM
And this defintion may be found where?

www.pullstuffoutofmyassandpresentitasfact.com?

It's MY definition, and I stand by it. :)

bruce38
03-31-2010, 02:47 PM
Of coures fed is always in God Mode when he wins but not playing his best when he loses. We know this because his fans and fed himself always say so. :shock:

Now I have shown four videos and i dont see where he pushes. can you show me any video anywhere where Murray was pushing?:confused:

Doesn't Murray say the same about himself when he loses too? That he didn't play his best. All of them say that. So what else is new.

jamesblakefan#1
03-31-2010, 03:04 PM
Cool story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP9U7_pktpg

You're trolling right now. I don't know why you resort to stuff like this, it really makes you look foolish.

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 03:57 PM
Doesn't Murray say the same about himself when he loses too? That he didn't play his best. All of them say that. So what else is new.

No they really don't. Especially Nadal.

Both Fed and Murray are artists....the only thing that bothers me about Fed is that he has this image of being so classy and instead he behaves like a sore loser. Fed displays the worst sportsmanship i have ever seen in my life. It's like he has a magic wand amd puts eberyone under hypnosis into believing how classy he is .

With Murray on the other hand what you see is what you get.

LameTennisPlayer
03-31-2010, 04:21 PM
No they really don't. Especially Nadal.

Both Fed and Murray are artists....the only thing that bothers me about Fed is that he has this image of being so classy and instead he behaves like a sore loser. Fed displays the worst sportsmanship i have ever seen in my life. It's like he has a magic wand amd puts eberyone under hypnosis into believing how classy he is .

With Murray on the other hand what you see is what you get.

i don't see much from him, so i don't get much

Chezbeeno
03-31-2010, 06:14 PM
Which particular shot did you think was pushing? I didn't see even one.

I hope for your sake that you're either blind or joking because that point was the definition of pushing, if you had Fed or Nadal in that position the point would've ended way earlier, and neither Fed nor Nadal would've lost the first set to Benneteau

Blinkism
03-31-2010, 06:47 PM
You're trolling right now. I don't know why you resort to stuff like this, it really makes you look foolish.

Oh, come on, JBF, lighten up.

You used to be cool :lol:

jamesblakefan#1
03-31-2010, 07:01 PM
Oh, come on, JBF, lighten up.

You used to be cool :lol:

Argh......ok. Here's a kitten to lighten things up a bit.

http://www.crapsonline.org/content_images/lucky-kitten-photo.jpg

Sartorius
03-31-2010, 07:03 PM
Maybe you missed this?:

Here's a video entitled "Murray just a pusher part 1". After watching it you will never call Andy a pusher again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8jdpmCaVE&feature=youtube_gdata


I absolutely loathe this particular smiley, but I'm going to use it ---> :lol:

Random points from random matches (usually against Rafa on HCs it seems, hmmm I wonder why) is supposed to give us a better understanding of a player's overall style. Priceless.

And no, I don't think Murray is a "pusher", and in a sense the video title is actually accurate. But I hope the poster of those videos (it's not you?) was not aiming to say "actually this is the way he plays", but rather "Murray can play like this too". Because Murray can play an aggressive game (not points, mind you), but he does not. Most of the time he tends to plays passive.

sh@de
03-31-2010, 07:10 PM
No they really don't. Especially Nadal.

Both Fed and Murray are artists....the only thing that bothers me about Fed is that he has this image of being so classy and instead he behaves like a sore loser. Fed displays the worst sportsmanship i have ever seen in my life. It's like he has a magic wand amd puts eberyone under hypnosis into believing how classy he is .

With Murray on the other hand what you see is what you get.

You mean his fugly face? Yeah... And his crazy passive pusher like game? Yeah...

I know he can play aggressive sometimes, but the problem I have with him is HE DOESN'T FREAKIN CHOOSE TO PLAY AGGRESSIVE and always resorts to his passive, defensive game! It's so frustrating to watch, and add to that his negative attitude... :(

Rob_C
03-31-2010, 07:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqX0-fx8Eqw



:lol:

THANK YOU!!! Maybe now these Brits will accept the fact that Murray is a pusher.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with being a pusher. It's a style of play just like S & V-ing, or chip & charging. But, he's a pusher.

Bud
03-31-2010, 07:12 PM
Murray... blah blah blah

Are you aware a mound is an epithet for a va gina :oops:

reytol
03-31-2010, 07:15 PM
Of coures fed is always in God Mode when he wins but not playing his best when he loses. We know this because his fans and fed himself always say so. :shock:

Now I have shown four videos and i dont see where he pushes. can you show me any video anywhere where Murray was pushing?:confused:


I just think that Murray doesn't have the "it factor" yet to win a slam final at this moment, he is such a passive player bordering on lazyness. He was always in God Mode during earlier rounds of a HC slam but totally collapses when reaching the final. There must be something wrong with this guy, though his stroke is flawless and efficient almost similar to Mecir whom I liked so much, his game doesn't suit for a slam final. I couldn't say he is a pusher.

Well, when luck is on his side, he might win one or two, i hope.

Rob_C
03-31-2010, 07:17 PM
I too am confused about this term "pusher". In terms of game "style", wouldn't Rafa be in this conversation? Or is he different because he turns defensive shots to offensive winners? Isn't this the only difference between Murray and Rafa?

Can someone clearly define these playing "styles" and maybe name CURRENT players that have those styles?

No b/c Rafa uses his shots to get you out of position, and then hit winners from the baseline with aggressive groundies.

Murray constantly waits for his opponent to make an UE to win the pt. I'd say most of Murray's winners come from passing shots, when he cant wait for an error, he has to try to end the pt in his favor.

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:17 PM
Are you aware a mound is an epithet for a va gina :oops:

actually its the pubic hairs above the vajayjay.:oops:

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:20 PM
i don't see much from him, so i don't get much

you should try women....maybe you will get more.:shock:

Murray Mound
03-31-2010, 07:22 PM
You mean his fugly face? Yeah... And his crazy passive pusher like game? Yeah...

I know he can play aggressive sometimes, but the problem I have with him is HE DOESN'T FREAKIN CHOOSE TO PLAY AGGRESSIVE and always resorts to his passive, defensive game! It's so frustrating to watch, and add to that his negative attitude... :(

Id take that attitude over the nancy mary attitude of some other players.

Mun
03-31-2010, 07:33 PM
Murray a powerful forehand? ROTFL!!! There's one reason why he is destroyed in majors on hardcourts by players with firepower. Federer, Verdasco, Cilic...
Murray is damn passive and yes he pushes most of the time! He is a pusher with a big serve!!! Why do you think he is the only top 5 player with 0 Slams?

reytol
03-31-2010, 07:52 PM
Murray a powerful forehand? ROTFL!!! There's one reason why he is destroyed in majors on hardcourts by players with firepower. Federer, Verdasco, Cilic...
Murray is damn passive and yes he pushes most of the time! He is a pusher with a big serve!!! Why do you think he is the only top 5 player with 0 Slams?

I agree 100% and that's the reality.

sh@de
03-31-2010, 08:17 PM
Id take that attitude over the nancy mary attitude of some other players.

Nobody's a nancy mary. You're biased... yet again. :roll:

dmt
03-31-2010, 08:33 PM
he doenst have a big forehand. I have rarely seen him hit a strong forehand, he did hit one or two in the ao final but thats all. Out of all the top 5 players, his forehand is the weakest. Lovely backhand though

TheTruth
03-31-2010, 08:56 PM
I see him as a tactician. That pushing label is annoying. I wouldn't care if he pushed or not, he's done well to get so high in the rankings. I don't think some people like that.

samprasvsfederer123
04-01-2010, 06:12 AM
because everyone hates him he is ugly, plays a kind of ugly game, has an ugly attitude, can in no way be a face that represents tennis, cant even make a good head commercial, even though i think he can take it pretty well if you know what i mean

jk

DRII
04-01-2010, 06:41 AM
take :confused:; do you mean get?

Why do some keep calling him ugly? Is this a general consensous?

Murray Mound
04-01-2010, 06:53 AM
because everyone hates him he is ugly,

jk


And federer looks like Quentin tarrantino

pjonesy
04-01-2010, 07:46 AM
By this logic a player with no weapons trying to be more agressive is a ballbasher.

Murray was accused by many on TT of pushing in the Wimbledon SF, which is nonsense. Sure he did play too passive on some key points, but he had a very solid winner/ue ratio.

Even Agassi whom no one would describe as a pusher played the "keep the ball in play"-kind of game towards the end his career, he wasn't called "The Punisher" for nothing. It's about using your phyiscal edge as an advantage.

Murray is not a pusher! BRAD GILBERT WAS A PUSHER!!!!!

rocket
04-01-2010, 08:25 AM
This is not at all what Andy does . Yes he can hit a dropper and then lob it over your head in a cat and mouse game but that is NOT pushing!!! That's tactics!!

He also can amd does hit with a Ton of power both on serves and ground strokes .

McEnroe doesn't hit hard (never did), but no-one will call him a pusher. The guy's a genius in placing the ball just out of reach.

I think Murray's passive play gets to ppl.

rommil
04-01-2010, 08:26 AM
Can we settle for Murray being branded as a tactical pusher? Everybody happy.....

Murray Mound
04-01-2010, 01:49 PM
Can we settle for Murray being branded as a tactical pusher? Everybody happy.....

Very funny.

Seriously how many of you guys lose to pushers?

wsberry
04-01-2010, 02:36 PM
Well technically, not everyone brands him a pusher. A pro pusher is much different than one would imagine a club level pusher to be... I tend to see him as a counterpuncher...

P_Agony
04-01-2010, 02:55 PM
I always thought of Andy as a good tactican. He could play aggressive as well when he needed to. However, I think he gotten used to the defensive style too much, and it's not enough against attackers who have a great day.

Emelia21
04-01-2010, 03:01 PM
take :confused:; do you mean get?

Why do some keep calling him ugly? Is this a general consensous?

Murray is ugly, Federer is a Male supermodel :shock: :confused: in some folks eyes (ugly as hell in my own :) )

DRII
04-01-2010, 03:20 PM
Very funny.

Seriously how many of you guys lose to pushers?

I do! I much rather play against pace!

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 11:40 PM
because everyone hates him he is ugly, plays a kind of ugly game, has an ugly attitude, can in no way be a face that represents tennis, cant even make a good head commercial, even though i think he can take it pretty well if you know what i mean

jk

I think the bolded part fits more than just Murray.

Peters
04-02-2010, 12:30 AM
Yeah, it's almost a case of 'welcome to professional tennis!'. :lol:

Slazenger07
04-02-2010, 12:34 AM
Murray is branded a pusher by people that dont know squat about tennis or what makes a pusher...it is silly to call him that

prattle128
04-02-2010, 01:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqX0-fx8Eqw



:lol:

OMG! I was just about to post the exact same thing! Good thing I checked out all the other posts before I did.

Wilander Fan
04-02-2010, 02:20 AM
Retrieving everything back and forcing guys to hit winners from low percentage positions is a valid tactic IMO. That type of consistency in tennis IMO is more impressive than the run and gun tactics alot of people use. In fact, i am thinking that the pro level may be the only place where a pusher isnt going to always have the upper hand.

Also, have only seen Murray a few of times and he doesnt only do this. He was running an on form Nadal ragged at the AO so he can change tactics.

Murray Mound
04-02-2010, 04:15 AM
Do you really think that Murray lead Federer 6-5 head to head by merely pushing the ball?



.

Murray Mound
04-02-2010, 06:35 AM
I guess that shut everyone up. That's rare.

Mr_Shiver
04-02-2010, 02:32 PM
I wouldn't consider Murray a pusher, a counter-puncher seems more appropriate. I believe the thing the frustrates people about him is that he has the capacity to push his game beyond this defensive style. I believe a lot of counter-punchers developed their style out of necessity, they often lack a big weapon that can hurt you (there are exceptions of course, but this generally appears to be the trend). So they hurt you with their legs and their consistency. Murray can do that but he can also play power tennis. It is just frustrating that when the chips are down he chooses defense. Its as if he would prefer to let the other guy mess up rather than take a chance himself and have it not work out. Guys like Fed and Rafa, I'm pretty sure they would rather have the big points decided on their racquets and not hope for their opponent to mess up. Anyways, thats my two cents.

My second theory has to do with sports in general. It seems as though the generalized masses, at least in America, are obsessed with offense. The rules in many sports appear tweaked to favor more homeruns, baskets, touchdowns, etc.... Apparently that is what people like to see. Personally I'd rather watch an intense pitchers duel than a slugfest or a shoot-out, but that's just me.

Anyway, I like Murray and I think it will all come together for him one day. He has shown flashes of great offensive tennis, he just needs to find the right balance. So there is hope for him, unlike Monfils, who despite having tremendous physical abilities prefers to stand behind the fence and retrieve all day. Now that guy drives me nuts, but it's also off topic.