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jigar
03-31-2010, 05:56 PM
I am sure this must have been discussed before many times.

Don't get this in wrong way. I like to watch Rafa matches.

But this is what I think,
All players must follow the time rule. They are world's elite athletes. If they can't handle pressure or 15 shots rally then I don't know what to make of them.

I understand it is just a few seconds more between points but,
Thousands of viewer are watching in stadium and millions more on the TV.
In many cases there are other players are also waiting for their match to start. This adds up as time and money in many ways.

I think they should put a time clock just like basketball.

I think being a top player on the tour Rafa gets away all the time.
This is the first time other players have complained about him.

What do you think?

This is one the main reason I hardly watch Rafa's match when it is live and I also don't watch his earlier rounds.
Don't get this in wrong way. I like to watch Rafa's matches.

samprasvsfederer123
03-31-2010, 05:58 PM
yep i get ****ed off when i have to wait so long, they should put like some timer if it beeps u immidiatley serve

nadal takes too long i think i saw 45 secs once

aprilfool
03-31-2010, 06:50 PM
It has been discussed many times and it should continue to be discussed until ATP actually fixes the problem. I think the clock idea has a lot of merits, one of the biggest being that it saves the umps from making unpleasant calls on ...whomever.

ervinxhufka
03-31-2010, 07:06 PM
I always get impatient during Nadal and Mary Pierce (may she rest in peace) matches. Not only do they take up to 40-50 sec in between points, but it's what they do during it, that is super annoying. Fixing the hair, picking the ***, blowing air to the hand. What is that ??? Stop it Nadal!.

TMF
03-31-2010, 07:07 PM
Excellent thread. This is becoming of a real problem in the atp. I just hated to see a players are at the disadvantage when he wasted time on both serving/receiving game. The sport wasn't designed for any player gaining an edge by breaking the rule.

Bud
03-31-2010, 07:07 PM
I am sure this must have been discussed before many times.

Yep... one too many times :razz:

aprilfool
03-31-2010, 07:23 PM
I always get impatient during Nadal and Mary Pierce (may she rest in peace) matches. Not only do they take up to 40-50 sec in between points, but it's what they do during it, that is super annoying. Fixing the hair, picking the ***, blowing air to the hand. What is that ??? Stop it Nadal!.

What happened to Mary Pierce?

elquien
03-31-2010, 07:42 PM
I was watching one of his doubles matches on u tube and he does not take nearly as long between serves. And he does not pick his but between serves either. Odd.

Sangria
03-31-2010, 07:48 PM
I was watching one of his doubles matches on u tube and he does not take nearly as long between serves. And he does not pick his but between serves either. Odd.

Its presumably a superstitious thing for his singles matches. Heck do you guys really get that annoyed you have to create another thread on time wasting?

And keep on butt-picking Rafa, the ladies love it! :)

Mustard
03-31-2010, 07:58 PM
The time rule should be abolished. Nadal likes to take his time and he should be allowed to do so without the constant hue and cry from critics.

tlm
03-31-2010, 08:02 PM
Will the crying about nadal taking to long ever stop? No matter how much whining goes on here it does not change anything.
It is up to the umpire to make the call on to much time between points.

bruce38
03-31-2010, 08:08 PM
Will the crying about nadal taking to long ever stop? No matter how much whining goes on here it does not change anything.
It is up to the umpire to make the call on to much time between points.

I agree, it's not up to Nadal the cheater to follow the rules, but rather for the umps to enforce the rules. Get some backbone umps!

tlm
03-31-2010, 08:13 PM
It is not cheating if the ump is not calling it.

Dilettante
03-31-2010, 08:51 PM
It is not cheating if the ump is not calling it.

Yes, but the umpires should be more severe with him on that, IMO.

TheTruth
03-31-2010, 08:54 PM
I wouldn't watch him if it annoyed me. Don't understand people complaining on an internet board seems futile.

Dilettante
03-31-2010, 09:01 PM
Don't understand people complaining on an internet board seems futile.

Complaining on an internet board about people who complain on an internet board is also futile.

Nevertheless, I'd like to complain about people who complain on an internet board about other people complaining on an internet board.

TheTruth
03-31-2010, 09:08 PM
Complaining on an internet board about people who complain on an internet board is also futile.

Nevertheless, I'd like to complain about people who complain on an internet board about other people complaining on an internet board.

And, I'd like to complain about people who complain about people who complain about people complaining about people making complaints.

Dilettante
03-31-2010, 09:10 PM
Futile though.

TheTruth
03-31-2010, 09:12 PM
Futile though.

Agreed....

rommil
03-31-2010, 09:39 PM
The best way about it is for the opponent to bring it up to the umpire prior to the match, rather than bringing it up at a juncture during the match which will just escalate a situation. Regardless, if there is a rule then somebody is not following it then the player should be warned, meaning the rule should be enforced, especially if the other party is observing that rule.

Morrissey
03-31-2010, 09:43 PM
Its presumably a superstitious thing for his singles matches. Heck do you guys really get that annoyed you have to create another thread on time wasting?

And keep on butt-picking Rafa, the ladies love it! :)

It's the winning that really bothers them. Time wasting is just a vent of their frustration.

rommil
03-31-2010, 09:47 PM
It's the winning that really bothers them. Time wasting is just a vent of their frustration.

Nadal has NOT won any titles in about a year. Win or lose, he's taking time over the limit regardless if it's called or not. Plain and simple. He doesn't do this on non competitive matches like exos.

namelessone
03-31-2010, 09:50 PM
Nadal has NOT won any titles in about a year. Win or lose, he's taking time over the limit regardless if it's called or not. Plain and simple. He doesn't do this on non competitive matches like exos.

Check out the exo he lost before RG(one set 6-4),he was taking his time there as well. And butt picking as well :)

kevvycore
03-31-2010, 09:52 PM
these sort of arguments never get anywhere and thats why the problem has not be solved. either nadals opponent looks like a whinning loser for complaining about nadals time and the chair umpire looks spineless because he doesnt call nadal for it. nadal and coach toni come out and complain how the chair is singling nadal out and the atp is out to get nadal for the way he plays and so on and so forth. meaning that the rule will never be enforced unless they just tell nadal to bad play faster. nadal can either quit or play faster. if he does quit and thinks the game will miss him nadal will be in for a surprise cuz it will go on with out him ask johnny mac about that.

rommil
03-31-2010, 09:54 PM
Check out the exo he lost before RG(one set 6-4),he was taking his time there as well. And butt picking as well :)

If I recall correctly he did not do this during the Hit for Haiti at Indian Wells.

namelessone
03-31-2010, 10:00 PM
If I recall correctly he did not do this during the Hit for Haiti at Indian Wells.

True but I was just pointing out that it is not true for all of his exhibition matches.

Paul Murphy
03-31-2010, 10:04 PM
It should be enforced - for the opponent and for us - it's boring waiting for the serve.
That's one of the reasons I like Tursunov - very quick between points.

Sangria
03-31-2010, 10:05 PM
We can all agree to disagree, and I acknowledge this is a discussion forum, but what can we do?

You can rant on about all of the habits that Nadal seem to annoy his non-fans, but face it, there has and never will be another player like Nadal. He has brought along so many new fans of the sport and his energy and style is incomparable.

At age 23, he has achieved so much already. What were YOU doing at that age?

rommil
03-31-2010, 10:07 PM
True but I was just pointing out that it is not true for all of his exhibition matches.

Bottom line, there is a deliberate act by Nadal to go over the alloted time. Yes or no?

namelessone
03-31-2010, 10:40 PM
Bottom line, there is a deliberate act by Nadal to go over the alloted time. Yes or no?

Well he does go over the alloted time but I don't think it is an issue for him nor do I think that he counts the seconds so as to intentionally go over it each time. I think he plays at his own pace and it is slower than most(he also had like 40 sec between serves in that exo). That's when umpires should warn him. But they don't so it is a never-ending argument.

I have had this discussion before with others. If Nadal's time-wasting is bothering MANY people,they should do a petition or something. Complaining about it on a forum will not change anything. I also want more grass but nobody from the ATP will listen to me unless I make my complaints formal.

rafan
03-31-2010, 10:42 PM
The longer he stays on court the better. People come to watch him and they get value for their money

rommil
03-31-2010, 10:45 PM
Well he does go over the alloted time but I don't think it is an issue for him nor do I think that he counts the seconds so as to intentionally go over it each time. I think he plays at his own pace and it is slower than most(he also had like 40 sec between serves in that exo). That's when umpires should warn him. But they don't so it is a never-ending argument.

I have had this discussion before with others. If Nadal's time-wasting is bothering MANY people,they should do a petition or something. Complaining about it on a forum will not change anything. I also want more grass but nobody from the ATP will listen to me unless I make my complaints formal.

Yes or no?

namelessone
03-31-2010, 10:55 PM
Well he does go over the alloted time .

Sorry for quoting myself but I thought I was pretty clear.

rommil
03-31-2010, 10:59 PM
Sorry for quoting myself but I thought I was pretty clear.

How hard was it to say yes?

namelessone
03-31-2010, 11:11 PM
How hard was it to say yes?

I am verbose,what can I say :)

rommil
03-31-2010, 11:17 PM
I am verbose,what can I say :)

YES would have been enough to say.

Cesc Fabregas
03-31-2010, 11:48 PM
It makes me laugh people complaining about his time wasting, your all at at home sitting on a couch complaining about a guy taking an extra 10 seconds, its a tad pathetic.

Dilettante
04-01-2010, 12:01 AM
It makes me laugh people complaining about his time wasting, your all at at home sitting on a couch complaining about a guy taking an extra 10 seconds, its a tad pathetic.

You're being futile.

Just FYI.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:04 AM
His average today was 31 seconds. 6 seconds over. Yeah he was taking a long time at times, and he was doing it in the last match at times quite a bit...that said, he has been fine outside of those last two matches, averaging the same amount of time as people he is playing at around 25 seconds.

Also just about EVERYONE outside of Roddick and Federer go over the time limit. Just look at the stats on the tennistv.com matches. But he really shouldn't be taking 50 seconds between points like he did against whoever that other opponent was. Maybe it was against Nalbandian?

ninman
04-01-2010, 12:24 AM
His average today was 31 seconds. 6 seconds over. Yeah he was taking a long time at times, and he was doing it in the last match at times quite a bit...that said, he has been fine outside of those last two matches, averaging the same amount of time as people he is playing at around 25 seconds.

Also just about EVERYONE outside of Roddick and Federer go over the time limit. Just look at the stats on the tennistv.com matches. But he really shouldn't be taking 50 seconds between points like he did against whoever that other opponent was. Maybe it was against Nalbandian?

I just can't understand how he can go 50 seconds when the limit is 25 seconds and NOT get a warning, do it again, and NOT get a penalty point. I mean seriously why aren't the umpires doing the jobs they're paid to and enforce the rules.

LameTennisPlayer
04-01-2010, 12:28 AM
It makes me laugh people complaining about his time wasting, your all at at home sitting on a couch complaining about a guy taking an extra 10 seconds, its a tad pathetic.

a tad ironic yes, and i'm not getting paid for sitting on my butt either

Gorecki
04-01-2010, 12:28 AM
lets see...

i have not read this thread but my guess is:

- Op posts about the Real FACT: Nadal Breaks the rules by spending to much time.

- A Few *******s (Veronique, Truth, Bolo et. al.) acuse him of being a hater and that it makes no sense whatsoever, and that if umpires do not enforce than it's ok, and the only guy wrong is Carlos Ramos that calls nadal on time wasting, but he only does that because he is portuguese, so he is envyous...

- one or two Federetes Start singing on the Nadal is a Pusher\ButPicker\Timewaster song and that if they were on court they would do this and that and a whole shebang, so much that Nadal would leave the court in a stretcher...

- Zagor is the only guy who posts anything worth reading

- namelessone, one of the few bearable Nadal fans posts a big block of text who most people misinterpret....

- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...

-Gorecki jumps in and leaves a witty remark

- Drakulie does the same but funnier...


am i in the right track?

Anaconda
04-01-2010, 12:32 AM
lets see...

i have not read this thread but my guess is:

- Op posts about the Real FACT: Nadal Breaks the rules by spending to much time.

- A Few *******s (Veronique, Truth, Bolo et. al.) acuse him of being a hater and that it makes no sense whatsoever, and that if umpires do not enforce than it's ok, and the only guy wrong is Carlos Ramos that calls nadal on time wasting, but he only does that because he is portuguese, so he is envyous...

- one or two Federetes Start singing on the Nadal is a Pusher\ButPicker\Timewaster song and that if they were on court they would do this and that and a whole shebang, so much that Nadal would leave the court in a stretcher...

- Zagor is the only guy who posts anything worth reading

- namelessone, one of the few bearable Nadal fans posts a big block of text who most people misinterpret....

- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...

-Gorecki jumps in and leaves a witty remark

- Drakulie does the same but funnier...


am i in the right track?


Best post i have seen. I love it LOL. LMAO. Great stuff.

ProgressoR
04-01-2010, 12:33 AM
And, I'd like to complain about people who complain about people who complain about people complaining about people making complaints.

I find this post objectionable.

10 characters

Dilettante
04-01-2010, 12:37 AM
I find this post objectionable.

10 characters

You had already completed the 10 characters so I find your 10 characters remark objectionable.

ProgressoR
04-01-2010, 12:44 AM
You had already completed the 10 characters so I find your 10 characters remark objectionable.

Perhaps I should have written 10 chars instead of 10 characters.

I object to others having opinions that do not complement mine. Can I ban this behaviour - perhaps the mods should delete such threads summarily.


And I recall in an IW match recently, posters were complaining about Nadal and time wasting, then a reader posted a stat to say he was taking on average about 24 secs between serve and only 0.2 seconds longer than his opponent.

So perhaps he looks like he is taking longer but really isnt?

In any case, I find that extra 0.2 seconds to be gratuitous and objectionable.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:46 AM
I just can't understand how he can go 50 seconds when the limit is 25 seconds and NOT get a warning, do it again, and NOT get a penalty point. I mean seriously why aren't the umpires doing the jobs they're paid to and enforce the rules.

Because it was an intense match, at intense moments, with the crowd going crazy. It wasn't like it was just a ho hum moment of the match and Nadal is sauntering about the court, not sure how to fill up his time.

Was it over the line? Yeah, I thought it was over the line. Was it FLAGRANTLY over the line? Kind of a judgment call given the circumstances, and the ump is the one who made that call.

The ONLY people who complain about this are still Federer fans that can't stand the guy otherwise they could be complaining about every other player on the tour.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:47 AM
Perhaps I should have written 10 chars instead of 10 characters.

I object to others having opinions that do not complement mine. Can I ban this behaviour - perhaps the mods should delete such threads summarily.


And I recall in an IW match recently, posters were complaining about Nadal and time wasting, then a reader posted a stat to say he was taking on average about 24 secs between serve and only 0.2 seconds longer than his opponent.

So perhaps he looks like he is taking longer but really isnt?

In any case, I find that extra 0.2 seconds to be gratuitous and objectionable.

I love this post.

Dilettante
04-01-2010, 12:51 AM
I love this post.

I don't.

He's pi$$ing me off with his Mr. Important's gratuitous and objectionable stuff blah blah. He doesn't think like I do and I want him to be banned.

60 characters. More or less.

ProgressoR
04-01-2010, 01:00 AM
I don't.

He's pi$$ing me off with his Mr. Important's gratuitous and objectionable stuff blah blah. He doesn't think like I do and I want him to be banned.

60 characters. More or less.

You correctly guessed my surname, my first name is Very.

And you made a typo, instead of typing "ss" you typed $$, that is understandable as they kind of look the same. I guess in your state of severe envy, this caused you to make the typo, it is understandable.

Good Luck.

10 charactrs

I left out the e because I suspect I can leave out that letter and still reach the required 10 characters.

dropshot winner
04-01-2010, 01:04 AM
Because it was an intense match, at intense moments, with the crowd going crazy. It wasn't like it was just a ho hum moment of the match and Nadal is sauntering about the court, not sure how to fill up his time.

Was it over the line? Yeah, I thought it was over the line. Was it FLAGRANTLY over the line? Kind of a judgment call given the circumstances, and the ump is the one who made that call.

The ONLY people who complain about this are still Federer fans that can't stand the guy otherwise they could be complaining about every other player on the tour.

Problem is that umpire never make those calls for high ranked players like Nadal. It's a clear double standard.

After all those years it's obvious that Nadal uses breaks not just to take a breather, but to enforce his rythm on the opponent. Those mind games start before the first point is played when Nadal lets his opponents wait at the net.

The "Intense Moment" is somewhat of an excuse, it's not like Nadal's the only one running in a 20+ stroke rally. The other top player still very rarely reach 50 seconds, if ever.

IMO the timelimit should be set to 30-40 seconds and then enforced every single point (umpire should tell the players "10 seconds left").

First time over the time limit should get a player warning, second a point and third the game. Whetever it's Federer, Nadal or Igor Kunitsyn, the Wimbledon final or 1st round in Sopot.

Dilettante
04-01-2010, 01:12 AM
You correctly guessed my surname, my first name is Very.

And you made a typo, instead of typing "ss" you typed $$, that is understandable as they kind of look the same. I guess in your state of severe envy, this caused you to make the typo, it is understandable.

Do you guys see this? The guy keeps on saying "understandable" and "understandable"... is almost as freakin' annoying as Nadal saying "unbelievable" and "unbelievable".

Good Luck.

So you're leaving, huh.

10 charactrs

I left out the e because I suspect I can leave out that letter and still reach the required 10 characters.

This time you went outrageously too far with the characters.. I don't know how any longer I'm gonna take this. I mean; you are disrespecting me, my country, my race, my religion and my political beliefs.

BTW I do think Nadal wastes more than 25 seconds, but as I just discredited your reputation by pointing how immoral, insulting and trollish you are, any kind of opinion you could have about this matter goes down the toilet.

Anyway, I'm glad that we (well... me) set this precedent of civilizated and reasonable debate.

560 characters.

F you

564 characters.

ProgressoR
04-01-2010, 01:27 AM
So you're leaving, huh.

The Good Luck was with reference to your imminent journey to improve yourself so you do not feel inferior in company such as mine.



F you
564 characters.

Fank you too, your typing still requires improvement, however

Good Luck in that too.

Rippy
04-01-2010, 01:28 AM
The longer he stays on court the better. People come to watch him and they get value for their money

I disagree with that. People come to watch him play tennis, not pick his butt. Him timewasting slows down the tennis, making it less exciting to watch.

Dilettante
04-01-2010, 01:30 AM
The Good Luck was with reference to your imminent journey to improve yourself so you do not feel inferior in company such as mine.




Fank you too, your typing still requires improvement, however

Good Luck in that too.

No one beats me in an Internet argument, hear me? No one!!!

Ban him! BAN HIM!!!!

ninman
04-01-2010, 01:31 AM
Because it was an intense match, at intense moments, with the crowd going crazy. It wasn't like it was just a ho hum moment of the match and Nadal is sauntering about the court, not sure how to fill up his time.

Was it over the line? Yeah, I thought it was over the line. Was it FLAGRANTLY over the line? Kind of a judgment call given the circumstances, and the ump is the one who made that call.

The ONLY people who complain about this are still Federer fans that can't stand the guy otherwise they could be complaining about every other player on the tour.

To be honest I don't really notice it too much. When I get into a match I don't really pay attention to how long they take between points. But I still think the umpires are spineless and unprofessional for not enforcing that particular rule.

Rhino
04-01-2010, 01:34 AM
i wonder if a player just stood there ready to serve, but did nothing, how long it would actually take him to get a time violation?

Rafa's opponents should just stand there tapping their wrists for 30 - 40secs between points when serving and force the umpires to address the issue.

ProgressoR
04-01-2010, 01:37 AM
No one beats me in an Internet argument, hear me? No one!!!

Ban him! BAN HIM!!!!


This is not an argument, I am busy being right and you are busy at being something else, but given that our interaction can only lead to you improving yourself, then some good comes of it.

You are welcome.

By the way, I am surprised at your inference on trolling, you would have seen my very pertinent comments on the OP's comments and the topic of this thread, in fact I am yet to see any more relevant and insightful comments in this thread. This is something I have experienced in every thread I have posted in.

namelessone
04-01-2010, 01:38 AM
I disagree with that. People come to watch him play tennis, not pick his butt. Him timewasting slows down the tennis, making it less exciting to watch.

Yet these people keep showing up at his matches,who also get great ratings when they are televised. The haters also come in full force to watch his matches so they can b***h about it later on the respective threads.

I've said it before. Despite having so many defects(apparently),he is still one of the most loved tennis players(probably only second to fed) by spectators,who have come to accept some of Rafa's quirks for the excitement he brings on court. He is the only sportsperson who does wierd things such as butt picking,watter bottle placement etc and he is still very loved in most places(paris seems to be the exception).

And he is probably the only sex simbol(nadal has A LOT of fangirls:shock:) who tuggs at his backside.

I also don't understand why people still watch his matches if they are annoyed by him or by his tennis. He is one guy,it's not like he is the only tennis player out there. If some don't like Nadal's tennis,his quirks,his slowed down game and so on,they should not watch him. It is really as simple as that. I am not really fond of simon's game for example so I don't watch him,unless he is playing rafa or a top10 player but I won't go into simon threads going on and on about him.

Rippy
04-01-2010, 01:52 AM
Yet these people keep showing up at his matches,who also get great ratings when they are televised. The haters also come in full force to watch his matches so they can b***h about it later on the respective threads.

I've said it before. Despite having so many defects(apparently),he is still one of the most loved tennis players(probably only second to fed) by spectators,who have come to accept some of Rafa's quirks for the excitement he brings on court. He is the only sportsperson who does wierd things such as butt picking,watter bottle placement etc and he is still very loved in most places(paris seems to be the exception).

And he is probably the only sex simbol(nadal has A LOT of fangirls:shock:) who tuggs at his backside.

I also don't understand why people still watch his matches if they are annoyed by him or by his tennis. He is one guy,it's not like he is the only tennis player out there. If some don't like Nadal's tennis,his quirks,his slowed down game and so on,they should not watch him. It is really as simple as that. I am not really fond of simon's game for example so I don't watch him,unless he is playing rafa or a top10 player but I won't go into simon threads going on and on about him.

It doesn't irritate me to the extent that I wouldn't watch his matches (though it sure does annoy me). It's a matter of principle though - WHY is he getting away with constantly going over the time limit?

namelessone
04-01-2010, 01:58 AM
It doesn't irritate me to the extent that I wouldn't watch his matches (though it sure does annoy me). It's a matter of principle though - WHY is he getting away with constantly going over the time limit?

My guess would be the umpires... :)

statto
04-01-2010, 02:23 AM
His average today was 31 seconds. 6 seconds over. Yeah he was taking a long time at times, and he was doing it in the last match at times quite a bit...that said, he has been fine outside of those last two matches, averaging the same amount of time as people he is playing at around 25 seconds.

Also just about EVERYONE outside of Roddick and Federer go over the time limit. Just look at the stats on the tennistv.com matches. But he really shouldn't be taking 50 seconds between points like he did against whoever that other opponent was. Maybe it was against Nalbandian?

This. The rule as it stands is ridiculous, and until they address it and allow more time (maybe 35 seconds) umpires will continue to use their discretion in this area.

Rafa's opponents should just stand there tapping their wrists for 30 - 40secs between points when serving and force the umpires to address the issue.

The reason this won't happen is because most players are guilty of it themselves. The reason there's all this discussion over Rafa is because of his success. If he was some journeyman with a 350-250 record then no one would bat an eyelid.

It's also a faulty argument to say it's boring. Attendances and crowd reaction at his matches would indicate otherwise.

djokovicgonzalez2010
04-01-2010, 02:34 AM
Just get the twenty dollar timer!

mandy01
04-01-2010, 02:35 AM
His average today was 31 seconds. 6 seconds over. Yeah he was taking a long time at times, and he was doing it in the last match at times quite a bit...that said, he has been fine outside of those last two matches, averaging the same amount of time as people he is playing at around 25 seconds.

Also just about EVERYONE outside of Roddick and Federer go over the time limit. Just look at the stats on the tennistv.com matches. But he really shouldn't be taking 50 seconds between points like he did against whoever that other opponent was. Maybe it was against Nalbandian?
uh-huh.And who is this everyone?
and how often do they abuse the rules?

Dilettante
04-01-2010, 03:01 AM
This is not an argument, I am busy being right and you are busy at being something else, but given that our interaction can only lead to you improving yourself, then some good comes of it.

You are welcome.

By the way, I am surprised at your inference on trolling, you would have seen my very pertinent comments on the OP's comments and the topic of this thread, in fact I am yet to see any more relevant and insightful comments in this thread. This is something I have experienced in every thread I have posted in.

In fact, I'm amazed by how you, innocent soul, are trying to convince yourself that your oppinions are relevant to anyone else but your loving mommy. And yes, I'm becoming a better person in this interaction because I'm learning how to be kind, patient and understanding with the Internetly handicapped persons who think every single thread is heavenly enlightened by their mere presence.

I don't even remember what were we arguing about, but I'm fine with it because this is my good deed for the day.

Geez, I should get a subvention for being such a fountain of kindess, love, RESPECT and sheer humanity.

You freakin' ******.

uh-huh.And who is this everyone?

ProgressoR, obviously.

ProgressoR
04-01-2010, 03:08 AM
oppinions


You have spelt this word incorrectly.

RESPECT


And in this case, you appear to have had caps lock inadvertently selected.

You are welcome.

10 Charactrs

(please note the omission of the e above is deliberate, for reasons you should now be clear with)

Gorecki
04-01-2010, 03:14 AM
status so far:

lets see...

i have not read this thread but my guess is:

- Op posts about the Real FACT: Nadal Breaks the rules by spending to much time. check

- A Few *******s (Veronique, Truth, Bolo et. al.) acuse him of being a hater and that it makes no sense whatsoever, and that if umpires do not enforce than it's ok, and the only guy wrong is Carlos Ramos that calls nadal on time wasting, but he only does that because he is portuguese, so he is envyous... Check

- one or two Federetes Start singing on the Nadal is a Pusher\ButPicker\Timewaster song and that if they were on court they would do this and that and a whole shebang, so much that Nadal would leave the court in a stretcher... Check

- Zagor is the only guy who posts anything worth reading

- namelessone, one of the few bearable Nadal fans posts a big block of text who most people misinterpret.... Check

- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...

-Gorecki jumps in and leaves a witty remark Check

- Drakulie does the same but funnier...


am i in the right track?

not bad...

Cesc Fabregas
04-01-2010, 03:17 AM
Gorecki comes in with a unfunny remark- check.

15_ounce
04-01-2010, 03:17 AM
Yes, I absolutely agree with the idea of a beeping timer telling a tennis player that time is up to do a serve. This will solve the problem and a player like Rafa and Sharapova will have to flick their hair quicker and pick that butt faster.

Rippy
04-01-2010, 03:19 AM
It's also a faulty argument to say it's boring. Attendances and crowd reaction at his matches would indicate otherwise.

It's not a faulty argument at all. If one person finds it boring, then they're correct to say that it's boring in their opinion.

Also, just because one part of Rafa's game is boring doesn't mean his matches are boring. I find his timewasting boring, but his shots exciting... I'm guessing people are willing to put up with the timewasting, but I highly doubt people actually enjoy it. They see it as a necessary evil.

vive le beau jeu !
04-01-2010, 03:24 AM
Check out the exo he lost before RG(one set 6-4),he was taking his time there as well. And butt picking as well :)
you are right, he was also doing it in this 4 sets exhibition against soderling in paris.
status so far:



not bad...
you forgot me posting too, to release a bit of by visceral nadal hate, M. ;)

PS: by the way, drak is late.

sh@de
04-01-2010, 03:31 AM
Gorecki comes in with a unfunny remark- check.

Gorecki, you forgot Cesc, who injured himself last night against Barca (what a noob), would come in to try and spoil your day. Failing miserably at it of course.

bolo
04-01-2010, 03:31 AM
I would love to see the shot clock put in as it stands now. There would be so many exceptions they would increase the time alloted in between points in no time. :) Ofcourse then players would start adapting to the new shot clock and you would have to believe that there is a small chance that overall matchtimes might actually increase.

Once you put in a clock it will also be very interesting to see what happens to the crowd noise.

dropshot winner
04-01-2010, 03:36 AM
I would love to see the shot clock put in as it stands now. There would be so many exceptions they would increase the time alloted in between points in no time. :) Ofcourse then players would start adapting to the new shot clock and you would have to believe that there is a small chance that overall matchtimes might actually increase.

Once you put in a clock it will also be very interesting to see what happens to the crowd noise.

What exceptions except for a medical timeout are you talking about? And how would overall matchtime increase?

If a player wants to argue with the umpire he has 30 seconds time for it until he gets a warning, if he keeps arguing he losses a point and then a game. It's really simple, wouldn't affect most players and force others to speed up their game. I bet the "points played per minute"-rate would increase.

auburnlull
04-01-2010, 03:40 AM
It's not a faulty argument at all. If one person finds it boring, then they're correct to say that it's boring in their opinion.

Also, just because one part of Rafa's game is boring doesn't mean his matches are boring. I find his timewasting boring, but his shots exciting... I'm guessing people are willing to put up with the timewasting, but I highly doubt people actually enjoy it. They see it as a necessary evil.

You are wrong in my case. Tennis is such a fast sport compared to almost all others. A few extra seconds when you know action is imminent just builds tension and drama. Think about why baseball is hypnotic to so many. The moment before the pitch allows the moment to build and gives the announcers time to build it even further. Baseball goes overboard into boredom much of the time but that is because there is so little action overall. Tennis needs the breathing room of different paces. Did you all ever wonder why Roddick's matches are kind of dull? His rapid points are part of the problem. We don't "see" him tapping into his tennis data bank the way more strategic players do. Tsonga may have lost the match last night because he played some critical points in a way that seemed to the announcers and myself like he didn't register the gravity of the moment the way a better player would. There is a bias on these boards against all styles of play that do not reflect the fast-twitch, frenetic pacing of all media products these days. I like tennis to have its own natural hybrid rhythm to take me away from all that. The 120 mph serves and 90 mph groundstrokes come soon enough. You people need to chill and realize that this law was made to be bent and broken like the 55mph speed limit. It is a useful hypocrisy that is a part of all systems of rules.

namelessone
04-01-2010, 03:42 AM
I'm guessing people are willing to put up with the timewasting, but I highly doubt people actually enjoy it. They see it as a necessary evil.

And bingo,we have a winner!!!

No one,not even the most ardent Nadal fan,likes time-wasting. I have never heard anyone say "oh rafa why did you only take 25-30 seconds? We need at least 40 sec" but as others have pointed out,Nadal would not be Nadal without it me thinks. He has been doing this since at least 4 years ago. He finds his "colm"(which he is always talking about) this way,by going a bit slower and doing his "thing". This is a problem for people who like their tennis fast.

I'm a Nadal fan and I wish he could go faster,that he would not tug at his backside,that he would develop a serve and so on. But I gave up hope on those things a long time ago and accepted him for what he is,a talented tennis player with quirks.

Statto pointed out two very truthful things about the time-wasting bit:

1)A lot of guys pass the 25 limit mark frequently. Nadal is worse by going to 40,sometimes 50 but this rule should be changed to 30-35 seconds,especially in today's tennis where there are long rallies ON ALL SURFACES.

2)The fact that many players don't mind. Guys who like to go fast mind but see,most guys want some 5-10 extra seconds to catch their breath after rallies(especially since rallies are actually extra long with rafa) and they really don't care about waiting a bit more or don't show it.

3)Audiences don't seem to mind as they flock to his matches and as far as I can see many people around here go to his match threads and not only.

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that all this is a huge conspiracy by the ATP,media,viewers,players to let Rafa off the hook with those extra seconds each time. Ask anyone and they will tell you that Rafa takes his time so it is common knowledge. Yet,no one is taking any steps in stopping time abuse from happening some so apparently it such a big issue as others are making it out to be.

angiebaby
04-01-2010, 03:45 AM
Bottom line, there is a deliberate act by Nadal to go over the alloted time. Yes or no?


I actually don't think it's a deliberate thing. I think it depends on his nervousness/excitement on the day. For exhibition matches, there's no pressure or stress or tension or expectation so it happens far less than in regular matches. I honestly don't think Rafa sets out with a deliberate intent to 'waste time', it's probably just his OCD level fluctuating depending on how he feels about a match.

That said, it's really up to the umpire to call it and they don't. It's their discretion isn't it? And they can't ALL be Nadal ***-kissers. So that theory doesn't hold much water. And as annoying as it might be for certain opponents or fans watching (it really doesn't bother me and wouldn't bother me WHOEVER was taking their time serving), do people honestly believe it affects the outcome of a game/match? Come on now.:?

bolo
04-01-2010, 03:51 AM
What exceptions except for a medical timeout are you talking about? And how would overall matchtime increase?

If a player wants to argue with the umpire he has 30 seconds time for it until he gets a warning, if he keeps arguing he losses a point and then a game. It's really simple, wouldn't affect most players and force others to speed up their game. I bet the "points played per minute"-rate would increase.

Crowdnoise/interference is going to be the big problem imo (will this be a bigger problem on the smaller courts?). That's also going to cause some unpleasantness between the ref. and players because there are going to be disagreements about whether something was really crowd interference (from possibly both the server/receiver).

Also how is the clock going to deal with long points where players need some time to recover? Right now everyone (ref./players) realizes more time is needed in these few instances but what will happen if a shot clock is instituted?

These are just two things off the top of my head. I would like to hear what woodrow (a ref. who posts around here) sees as the costs/benefits of instituting a shot clock.

dropshot winner
04-01-2010, 04:19 AM
Crowdnoise/interference is going to be the big problem imo (will this be a bigger problem on the smaller courts?). That's also going to cause some unpleasantness between the ref. and players because there are going to be disagreements about whether something was really crowd interference (from possibly both the server/receiver).

Also how is the clock going to deal with long points where players need some time to recover? Right now everyone (ref./players) realizes more time is needed in these few instances but what will happen if a shot clock is instituted?

These are just two things off the top of my head. I would like to hear what woodrow (a ref. who posts around here) sees as the costs/benefits of instituting a shot clock.
The umpire can quiet down the crowd 10-15 seconds before the allowed timelimit is over. In most cases a "please be quiet" is effective within 1, 2 seconds.
If some crowd really is unwilling to be quiet you'll have a problem whetever you have a enforced timelimit or not.

A timelimit of lets say 40 seconds would be easily enough for long points.
Under those rules a player could do 30 seconds nothing else than take some deep breaths and still have 10 seconds left to serve.

Gorecki
04-01-2010, 04:22 AM
Gorecki comes in with a unfunny remark- check.

i love you too Cesc...

Rippy
04-01-2010, 04:23 AM
I actually don't think it's a deliberate thing. I think it depends on his nervousness/excitement on the day. For exhibition matches, there's no pressure or stress or tension or expectation so it happens far less than in regular matches. I honestly don't think Rafa sets out with a deliberate intent to 'waste time', it's probably just his OCD level fluctuating depending on how he feels about a match.

That said, it's really up to the umpire to call it and they don't. It's their discretion isn't it? And they can't ALL be Nadal ***-kissers. So that theory doesn't hold much water. And as annoying as it might be for certain opponents or fans watching (it really doesn't bother me and wouldn't bother me WHOEVER was taking their time serving), do people honestly believe it affects the outcome of a game/match? Come on now.:?

Whoever said umpires were Nadal ***-kissers? It's just that umpires seem to be afraid of calling time violations.

Gorecki
04-01-2010, 04:26 AM
you are right, he was also doing it in this 4 sets exhibition against soderling in paris.

you forgot me posting too, to release a bit of by visceral nadal hate, M. ;)

PS: by the way, drak is late.

yes i did. i apologize for such mistake...

i am sad because all i do is to make friend with cesc but he seems to hate me in visceral fashion... despite what shade might say about me trying to **** of cesc or the other way around! not true!

cesc... can we be "frenz"....

http://www.infinitecat.com/cat-tales/pics/new-friends.jpg

drak... where artī thou...

rafan
04-01-2010, 04:50 AM
I disagree with that. People come to watch him play tennis, not pick his butt. Him timewasting slows down the tennis, making it less exciting to watch.

If this is true then why do they continue to support him and fill the stands.

dropshot winner
04-01-2010, 05:01 AM
If this is true then why do they continue to support him and fill the stands.

They support him despite those things, not because of it.

Tiger Woods still has many fans, but not because he banged all those women, despite it.

Jeannie_Berry
04-01-2010, 05:26 AM
The best way about it is for the opponent to bring it up to the umpire prior to the match, rather than bringing it up at a juncture during the match which will just escalate a situation. Regardless, if there is a rule then somebody is not following it then the player should be warned, meaning the rule should be enforced, especially if the other party is observing that rule.

You are so right... Everyone should follow the rules and regulation of the game no matter what. :) Rules will always be rules.

TennisFan008
04-01-2010, 05:31 AM
I agree, it's not up to Nadal the cheater to follow the rules, but rather for the umps to enforce the rules. Get some backbone umps!

Yes, an athlete of questionable morals, like Rafa, will continue to cheat as long as he feels he can get away with it. It's time for the umpires to recover from their severe, mass-hypogonadism and do their f*cking job!

TennisFan008
04-01-2010, 05:36 AM
Bottom line, there is a deliberate act by Nadal to go over the alloted time. Yes or no?

Yes, it is indeed deliberate. Someone should dig up that quote in which Nadal talks about his time-wasting. He said he used to be quick between points, but tio Toni told him to take his time and Rafa feels it benefits him.

CMM
04-01-2010, 05:36 AM
Yes, an athlete of questionable morals, like Rafa

:roll:...................

TennisFan008
04-01-2010, 05:37 AM
The worst thing is that he's even slower than usual before important points.

JennyS
04-01-2010, 05:40 AM
The worst thing is that he's even slower than usual before important points.

Andy Roddick will not be thrilled:P

tarasb22
04-01-2010, 05:48 AM
Not sure what is "time rule" that OP mentions and what is time limit, but I, while watching tennis on TV or live, never ever thought that Rafa is taking too much time. It's not that I didnt care about it, I just never has this thought (and honestly, now that I read that some find it annoying, I dont care :D)

And I suppose that majority of ppl watching tennis feel the same.

CMM
04-01-2010, 06:04 AM
- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...
It's nice that you still remember this.
http://i40.tinypic.com/b54b5d.jpg

drakulie
04-01-2010, 06:08 AM
^^why is he taking that woman's last change?

rommil
04-01-2010, 06:10 AM
It's nice that you still remember this.
http://i40.tinypic.com/b54b5d.jpg

This is Rafa giving Veronquem a few pesetas for a job well done here on TTW. Notice Rafa's expression like " here's the money, get the f*ck outa here!".

Bittabonga
04-01-2010, 06:10 AM
^^why is he taking that woman's last change?

Its a tip dipschit.

Gorecki
04-01-2010, 06:17 AM
^^why is he taking that woman's last change?

It's nice that you still remember this.

- Zagor is the only guy who posts anything worth reading

- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...

- Drakulie does the same but funnier...

check
check

only ZAG is making me look bad...

dropshot winner
04-01-2010, 06:20 AM
Its a tip dipschit.

Probably just 50 cents. He can only hope no one tells Agassi :)

rommil
04-01-2010, 06:20 AM
I actually don't think it's a deliberate thing. I think it depends on his nervousness/excitement on the day. For exhibition matches, there's no pressure or stress or tension or expectation so it happens far less than in regular matches. I honestly don't think Rafa sets out with a deliberate intent to 'waste time', it's probably just his OCD level fluctuating depending on how he feels about a match.

That said, it's really up to the umpire to call it and they don't. It's their discretion isn't it? And they can't ALL be Nadal ***-kissers. So that theory doesn't hold much water. And as annoying as it might be for certain opponents or fans watching (it really doesn't bother me and wouldn't bother me WHOEVER was taking their time serving), do people honestly believe it affects the outcome of a game/match? Come on now.:?


What you actually don't think, what you think and what you honestly don't think is not the issue here. Whatever Rafa's reasons are is not the issue either. You're telling me that this person who does this for a living day in and day out, someone very adept to a lot of things in the sport, someone who got on top of the rankings, somebody who has been warned about it a couple of times, is not aware of what he is doing on court? I am not going to argue that it should be enforced because it looks like it won't be and it seems the more reason Nadal is doing it. OCD? He doesn't pick his butt in public or outside the tennis courts does he? In fact I saw him practice at Indian Wells few weeks ago and he was not doing these antics.
Again, take away everything else, it still comes down to the fact. Nadal is exercising deliberate acts that go over the time limit.

Gorecki
04-01-2010, 06:25 AM
Probably just 50 cents. He can only hope no one tells Agassi :)

http://members.gamedev.net/vilio/LMAO.jpg

Pink_Shirt
04-01-2010, 06:28 AM
The way I see it, if his opponents complain about how long he takes to serve..they should do the same thing. Take advantage of it, make Nadal wait.

KAndersonFan
04-01-2010, 06:30 AM
LOL @ Dilettante and ProgressoR. Almost only worthwhile posts in this thread. :lol:

Matt H.
04-01-2010, 06:31 AM
in the tv coverage on FSN last night, the commentators indicated that Tsonga was asking the chair to check Rafa's time because he was taking so long.

FSN put up an actual timer on the screen for a couple points and one of them was 43 seconds.

Out of curiosity i grabbed my iphone and timed a couple of his service games on the stopwatch. His quickest time in 3 games was 25 seconds. Most were in the 30's.

ksbh
04-01-2010, 06:32 AM
Trivia question for all- what will the Federer lovers be busy doing over the next few days?

Correct answers will get the member a free copy of Federer's fans latest book "Time is the essence!" :)

drakulie
04-01-2010, 06:33 AM
This is Rafa giving Veronquem a few pesetas for a job well done here on TTW. Notice Rafa's expression like " here's the money, get the f*ck outa here!".

Too funny! :)

Probably just 50 cents. He can only hope no one tells Agassi :)

LOL.

Telepatic
04-01-2010, 06:46 AM
Seriously, I like Nadal and his game but he should really stop time wasting, its 50 freaking seconds..pff

Dilettante
04-01-2010, 06:55 AM
You have spelt this word incorrectly.

Oh, here's Mr. Anglo-Saxon-Knowitall mocking me for being a non-English-speaking individual... what a cheap shot. I don't mind if I can't spell correctly in Spanish either, your attitude is still atrocious and (drumroll please!) racist!!!

OK, that's it, I've finally said it.

And in this case, you appear to have had caps lock inadvertently selected.

Not as serious as you having your straitjacket's locks inadvertently unselected.

(please note the omission of the e above is deliberate, for reasons you should now be clear with)

Deliberate? I deduce from your typing that you lack a finger in one of your hands... let us just figure out how did you lose that finger and where.



...Ok, that was gross, but your puerile attitude forced me to lower myself to this childish level of interaction.

swordtennis
04-01-2010, 07:02 AM
Other players do it such as Delpotro. Not just Nadal. Nadal is just cronic with it. It is part of his "game".
Yes one of the reasons Nadal, his "camp" and his fans should never fool anyone. Also why I fall asleep during his matches. zzzzzzzz.
It is definately a momentum killer. It is cheating. It also offers Nadal an upper hand.
Now it also the Officials and the organizations fault. They are not doing their job.
Yes they dont cover up for anyone? LOL! Wonder what other forms of corruption there is within....
:-)

vive le beau jeu !
04-01-2010, 07:06 AM
This is Rafa giving Veronquem a few pesetas for a job well done here on TTW. Notice Rafa's expression like " here's the money, get the f*ck outa here!".
:D

thx for the laugh !!!

bolo
04-01-2010, 07:46 AM
The umpire can quiet down the crowd 10-15 seconds before the allowed timelimit is over. In most cases a "please be quiet" is effective within 1, 2 seconds.
If some crowd really is unwilling to be quiet you'll have a problem whetever you have a enforced timelimit or not.

A timelimit of lets say 40 seconds would be easily enough for long points.
Under those rules a player could do 30 seconds nothing else than take some deep breaths and still have 10 seconds left to serve.

I think if you increased it a bit that might solve most of the long point problems. But I guarantee you that once you increase the time limit some % of players will start serving closer to the new time limit (lendl supposedly mastered taking the maximum amount of time alloted for each serve). So now while you no longer get nadal taking 50 secs. for some points you have taken a whole new set of players closer to the 40 sec. mark for all of their serving points. Overall it still might be worth it but only if there are a non trivial amount of players like nadal on the tour.

I thought during the WTF I read an article that said they were conisdering a time clock, I wonder what's been happening since.

edmondsm
04-01-2010, 08:11 AM
The way I see it, if his opponents complain about how long he takes to serve..they should do the same thing. Take advantage of it, make Nadal wait.

That makes no sense. Some guys like to play fast. There is no rule against playing too fast, just against playing too slow.

edmondsm
04-01-2010, 08:12 AM
It's the winning that really bothers them. Time wasting is just a vent of their frustration.

http://americatop100.com/fotos/albums/userpics/10001/youtube-star-chris-crocker-glitter.gif

CMM
04-01-2010, 08:13 AM
Some guys like to play fast.

Those guys should quit taking roids. :evil:

tacou
04-01-2010, 08:13 AM
this is not a new topic but I think it's very relevant after last night's match. I am a big Nadal fan but also really like Tsonga, and it was ashame to see Tsonga argue with the umpire about Nadal's time wasting, have the umpire say "I have the watch I'll take care of it" and doing nothing for another 10 games or so while Nadal consistently went over.

The only argument for Nadal is that umpires never call players on this and it is not the players job to call themselves. However, when the opponent calls Nadal out on it the umpire really needs to step up.

swordtennis
04-01-2010, 08:14 AM
http://americatop100.com/fotos/albums/userpics/10001/youtube-star-chris-crocker-glitter.gif

LOL! What the heck is that? :)

Rippy
04-01-2010, 09:08 AM
If this is true then why do they continue to support him and fill the stands.

Do people approve of crime in America? If not, why do they still live there?

KAndersonFan
04-01-2010, 09:18 AM
Do people approve of crime in America? If not, why do they still live there?

Their money is stolen and they can't travel.

Rippy
04-01-2010, 09:23 AM
Their money is stolen and they can't travel.

Heh... I was thinking more that just because people like a place doesn't mean it can't have problems. Just cause people like Nadal and go and watch him, doesn't mean he's completely flawless with no issues.

NamRanger
04-01-2010, 09:33 AM
I have no problem with Nadal taking time on his serve; I have a problem when he's obviously stalling the server and attempting to break his serving rhythm. It's good manners to play to the pace of the server within a reasonable amount of time, and I think most guys do serve at a reasonable speed. Nadal on the other hand sometimes does his whole "water bottle" ritual, then "towels off", and then "adjusts socks and wrist bands", then "wedgie pulling", etc. on his RETURN game, which is just flagrantly unsportsmanlike.

abmk
04-01-2010, 10:49 AM
Probably just 50 cents. He can only hope no one tells Agassi :)

ha ha, nice one that :)

Halba
04-01-2010, 10:53 AM
The time rule should be abolished. Nadal likes to take his time and he should be allowed to do so without the constant hue and cry from critics.

leave him be. he needs time to recover from the gruelling style.

JennyS
04-01-2010, 11:57 AM
The best way to watch Nadal matches is to record it on DVR, start one hour later and fastforward in between the points and during commercials. Of course, you usually wind up catching up to live coverage if the match is too long:D

dcdoorknob
04-01-2010, 12:37 PM
LOL @ Dilettante and ProgressoR. Almost only worthwhile posts in this thread. :lol:

Agreed (except without the almost)

Futile though they may be.

jgn1013
04-01-2010, 12:38 PM
Remember last year Nadal vs Djoker clay court...they took like 5 hrs to play 3 sets... wtf! why do they need to dry off after an ace?

P_Agony
04-01-2010, 12:40 PM
It's the winning that really bothers them. Time wasting is just a vent of their frustration.

Nah, it really is the time wasting that bothers us, and apparently some of the players too. It's not only Nadal, but he's the worst (along with Djokovic), and as the #2 player in the world, he should set the example, not break the rules. Of course, it's up to the umpires to make sure the rules aren't being abused. They don't do their job properly.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:42 PM
Nah, it really is the time wasting that bothers us, and apparently some of the players too. It's not only Nadal, but he's the worst (along with Djokovic), and as the #2 player in the world, he should set the example, not break the rules. Of course, it's up to the umpires to make sure the rules aren't being abused. They don't do their job properly.

Berdych and Verdasco are both going over the time limit in their match. Upset?

P_Agony
04-01-2010, 12:43 PM
Check out the exo he lost before RG(one set 6-4),he was taking his time there as well. And butt picking as well :)

Well, I didn't watch that one, but look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzs9m2JHkjI

Nadal was serving quickly and barely took any time. Why can't he do this now is beyond me.

P_Agony
04-01-2010, 12:44 PM
Berdych and Verdasco are both going over the time limit in their match. Upset?

Berdych I haven't notcied. Verdasco and Delpo are serial time abusers, but not as big as Nadal and Djokovic. Davy has a pretty long service motion but I think he's well within the time limit.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:48 PM
Berdych I haven't notcied. Verdasco and Delpo are serial time abusers, but not as big as Nadal and Djokovic. Davy has a pretty long service motion but I think he's well within the time limit.

I'm looking at the numbers. Everyone goes over. Nadal averaged 31 seconds last night, which along with his other match that he did that, was the longest in some time. He generally sticks around 25 seconds like the entire tour outside of Federer and Roddick. I take special notice now because of the whiners, and it's simply a moot point these days. I do agree he took too long in the last couple of matches, but I imagine he will go back to normal soon.

P_Agony
04-01-2010, 12:48 PM
His average today was 31 seconds. 6 seconds over. Yeah he was taking a long time at times, and he was doing it in the last match at times quite a bit...that said, he has been fine outside of those last two matches, averaging the same amount of time as people he is playing at around 25 seconds.

Also just about EVERYONE outside of Roddick and Federer go over the time limit. Just look at the stats on the tennistv.com matches. But he really shouldn't be taking 50 seconds between points like he did against whoever that other opponent was. Maybe it was against Nalbandian?

I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong or in denial. it's not rarely at all, it happens every match, at first it was on crucial points, now it's almost every point. Nadal's service games take so long even if he's not losing a single point in them.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:51 PM
uh-huh.And who is this everyone?
and how often do they abuse the rules?

Didn't see this before. Everyone is everyone. The "rules" are broken in every single match according to the actual statistics shown on every match. I can't help it if you're not using tennistv.com

P_Agony
04-01-2010, 12:51 PM
I'm looking at the numbers. Everyone goes over. Nadal averaged 31 seconds last night, which along with his other match that he did that, was the longest in some time. He generally sticks around 25 seconds like the entire tour outside of Federer and Roddick. I take special notice now because of the whiners, and it's simply a moot point these days. I do agree he took too long in the last couple of matches, but I imagine he will go back to normal soon.

There's so much wrong in this post, it's clear that you cannot be even remotley objective. It's fine if you're biased and like Nadal, but don't twist the facts to your liking. It's better to not post at all and stay quiet like most Nadal fans who know this is a thread about a serious issue.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong or in denial. it's not rarely at all, it happens every match, at first it was on crucial points, now it's almost every point. Nadal's service games take so long even if he's not losing a single point in them.

Errr....no you are wrong or in denial. I am going based on the measured and posted numbers, timed down to the tenth of a second. I have no "opinion" on how long people take, I just look at the numbers. Yes there were TIMES when he went really long like 50 seconds, but that was just a handful of times at moments where the match was intense with the crowd going nuts. Just about every player does this though at some point.

Again. This isn't a rules issue, or a fairness issue, because every player does it. This is still a "Nadal beats Federer and that ticks people off" issue.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:53 PM
There's so much wrong in this post, it's clear that you cannot be even remotley objective. It's fine if you're biased and like Nadal, but don't twist the facts to your liking. It's better to not post at all and stay quiet like most Nadal fans who know this is a thread about a serious issue.

Do you need screen caps from matches to prove the point? Please don't insist I am wrong, when you are not sitting here and staring at the numbers like I do during these matches. Please please please, go to tennistv.com and you can use the same real life facts that I do. Not conjecture, not opinion, and certainly not bias.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 12:57 PM
Here is Berdych's current "time wasting" standard. Care to comment? Nadal averaged less than 2 seconds longer last night just FYI.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9199/berdych.jpg

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 01:00 PM
And here is Verdasco, the one you called out for being a notorious time waster. Doing better than Berdych, whom you called fast. Notice that both players are breaking the rules though on just about every point. For the record, Nadal usually is around Verdasco's time here, and I know this because, once again, I see this on every single tennis match I watch.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/6800/tennisstatspointduratio.jpg

NamRanger
04-01-2010, 01:08 PM
And here is Verdasco, the one you called out for being a notorious time waster. Doing better than Berdych, whom you called fast. Notice that both players are breaking the rules though on just about every point. For the record, Nadal usually is around Verdasco's time here, and I know this because, once again, I see this on every single tennis match I watch.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/6800/tennisstatspointduratio.jpg



It's not how often they do it on average, they really don't. It's often how Nadal does it on important points such as critical points on his opponents' serve. This happens often on break points or 30 all. He also tends to do this on his own serve too (although he's a little better on his serve now adays).



He tends to slow down on critical points, but who doesn't. The degree to which he does it though is ridiculous though, and that is why some of us have a problem with it (as well as some players). If you watch how long he takes during points like 30 all, 15-30, deuce, or breakpoints, you will find that all of a sudden Nadal's time wasting habits go into overdrive mode, especially if he is returning.

TennisandMusic
04-01-2010, 01:12 PM
It's not how often they do it on average, they really don't. It's often how Nadal does it on important points such as critical points on his opponents' serve. This happens often on break points or 30 all. He also tends to do this on his own serve too (although he's a little better on his serve now adays).



He tends to slow down on critical points, but who doesn't. The degree to which he does it though is ridiculous though, and that is why some of us have a problem with it (as well as some players). If you watch how long he takes during points like 30 all, 15-30, deuce, or breakpoints, you will find that all of a sudden Nadal's time wasting habits go into overdrive mode, especially if he is returning.

Umm...I have to disagree here. You can't stall the server when he's going to serve. Something like that gets called on. I've never seen anyone complain "I want to serve, get to the line!"

You just can't argue with the facts and the numbers that are posted on every single match played out. It's still a Nadal wins issue, and that's it. Tsonga was his normal cocky self until he started losing last night, then it was "No, no, no, no, no!" to the umpire. Kinda sad really.

Anytime Nadal starts winning, people start whining.

NamRanger
04-01-2010, 01:20 PM
Umm...I have to disagree here. You can't stall the server when he's going to serve. Something like that gets called on. I've never seen anyone complain "I want to serve, get to the line!"

You just can't argue with the facts and the numbers that are posted on every single match played out. It's still a Nadal wins issue, and that's it. Tsonga was his normal cocky self until he started losing last night, then it was "No, no, no, no, no!" to the umpire. Kinda sad really.

Anytime Nadal starts winning, people start whining.




Hilarious. You can't stall the server when he's going to serve? You must be kidding me right? Remember this whole charade?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwvgnYDTTQ0


Or how about Nadal taking over a minute and a half to do a water bottle ritual over a mini change over in his tiebreak vs Roddick last year, when Roddick was about to serve?

Nadal also stalled Agassi and Federer on multiple occasions, so I don't see where you get this ridiculous notion that you can't stall the server. Sharapova is notorious for doing this, as is Nadal. Hell, Mary Pierce is another player that does it too, redoing her hair inbetween points.




Actually that did happen. Agassi after a long point stepped up to the line after making Nadal run around the court like a rabbit, and Nadal simply just went off and basically did his little rituals, and Agassi was asking why Nadal was not playing to the pace of the server. I guess you don't watch that much tennis or you would have remembered that. Or maybe you have selective memory? Agassi is pretty bad about being unreasonable, but I'm just pointing you out an example of Nadal stalling a person attempting to serve.

swordtennis
04-01-2010, 01:40 PM
Here is a 100% objective fact: I most always fall asleep during Nadals matches or turn them off especially the ones where he gets pressured. It is becuase of the lulls in the action due the time offenses. I very rarely if ever fall asleep during tennis matches. Just Nadals when he gets tight. he does it on his serve and return games. zzzzzzzz.
I hate it and it turns Fans off to the game. The officials are a joke now.

swordtennis
04-01-2010, 01:41 PM
Hilarious. You can't stall the server when he's going to serve? You must be kidding me right? Remember this whole charade?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwvgnYDTTQ0


Or how about Nadal taking over a minute and a half to do a water bottle ritual over a mini change over in his tiebreak vs Roddick last year, when Roddick was about to serve?

Nadal also stalled Agassi and Federer on multiple occasions, so I don't see where you get this ridiculous notion that you can't stall the server. Sharapova is notorious for doing this, as is Nadal. Hell, Mary Pierce is another player that does it too, redoing her hair inbetween points.




Actually that did happen. Agassi after a long point stepped up to the line after making Nadal run around the court like a rabbit, and Nadal simply just went off and basically did his little rituals, and Agassi was asking why Nadal was not playing to the pace of the server. I guess you don't watch that much tennis or you would have remembered that. Or maybe you have selective memory? Agassi is pretty bad about being unreasonable, but I'm just pointing you out an example of Nadal stalling a person attempting to serve.

O my 4got about Mary. During the french open a few years back I had to turn the tv off. I think I remember that Agassi incident...

JennyS
04-01-2010, 01:52 PM
Imagine a mixed doubles match where Nadal and Pierce played Djokovic and Sharapova.

ReturnWinner
04-01-2010, 01:59 PM
Nadal has been doing this since 05 even earlier too. I do not know why journalists neverk ask him about this.

TMF
04-01-2010, 01:59 PM
Imagine a mixed doubles match where Nadal and Pierce played Djokovic and Sharapova.

You can go to Disneyland, then fly back and still have time to see the final set. Haha

JennyS
04-01-2010, 02:01 PM
You can go to Disneyland, then fly back and still have time to see the final set. Haha

Haha, how true:D

P_Agony
04-01-2010, 02:27 PM
Errr....no you are wrong or in denial. I am going based on the measured and posted numbers, timed down to the tenth of a second. I have no "opinion" on how long people take, I just look at the numbers. Yes there were TIMES when he went really long like 50 seconds, but that was just a handful of times at moments where the match was intense with the crowd going nuts. Just about every player does this though at some point.

Again. This isn't a rules issue, or a fairness issue, because every player does it. This is still a "Nadal beats Federer and that ticks people off" issue.

No, it's not. It's Nadal cheating that ticks people off. And righfuly so. Apparently Tsonga is the newest member of that club. They should make a Facebook group like "I too am sick of Nadal wasting so much time between points".

Emelia21
04-01-2010, 02:51 PM
Nadal has been doing this since 05 even earlier too. I do not know why journalists neverk ask him about this.

Maybe the journalists don't care :neutral: like you do?

slow_duster
04-01-2010, 02:53 PM
I like the "shot clock" idea. If you dont serve before clock runs out of time, it counts as a fault. Rafa would have to pick faster!!!!!!!

ReturnWinner
04-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Maybe the journalists don't care :neutral: like you do?

Tv commentators care as they talk about that very often. I mean the people who interview Nadal, I guess They don't want to make "Rafa" feel umcomfortable.

rk_sports
04-01-2010, 04:18 PM
Though at times it does seem Rafa does it in a rather deliberate fashion!

Just wondering.. does the umpire really clock the time between points?

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 10:56 PM
lets see...

i have not read this thread but my guess is:

- Op posts about the Real FACT: Nadal Breaks the rules by spending to much time.

- A Few *******s (Veronique, Truth, Bolo et. al.) acuse him of being a hater and that it makes no sense whatsoever, and that if umpires do not enforce than it's ok, and the only guy wrong is Carlos Ramos that calls nadal on time wasting, but he only does that because he is portuguese, so he is envyous...

- one or two Federetes Start singing on the Nadal is a Pusher\ButPicker\Timewaster song and that if they were on court they would do this and that and a whole shebang, so much that Nadal would leave the court in a stretcher...

- Zagor is the only guy who posts anything worth reading

- namelessone, one of the few bearable Nadal fans posts a big block of text who most people misinterpret....

- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...

-Gorecki jumps in and leaves a witty remark

- Drakulie does the same but funnier...


am i in the right track?

No. If you're going to speak for The Truth, then say what The Truth said in addition, and why. I think the time wasting garbage was started by Federer because Nadal was beating him. Fed made sure to "leave it out there" in numerous interviews, planting a seed so to speak. And yeah, people may say Agassi started it, but he was a sore loser too, so it's the same thing. Still, it was Federer who kept this mess going.

I've watched tennis for a long time and I know for a fact this strict adherence to a few seconds is a recent phenomena. It's never been a part of the game, because a few seconds here and there does not constitute cheating. Ask Woodrow, the professional umpire, he says all the players go over time, so it's obvious that it's nitpicking by disgruntled, unhappy people, imo.

Now, that's The Truth speaking for herself, not Gorecki putting words in her mouth.

Uh...no, to the bolded.
(Takes a bow)

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 11:04 PM
Gorecki comes in with a unfunny remark- check.

Check, check.

It's funny how he calls himself funny, though!

Lsmkenpo
04-01-2010, 11:10 PM
No. If you're going to speak for The Truth, then say what The Truth said in addition, and why. I think the time wasting garbage was started by Federer because Nadal was beating him. Fed made sure to "leave it out there" in numerous interviews, planting a seed so to speak. And yeah, people may say Agassi started it, but he was a sore loser too, so it's the same thing. Still, it was Federer who kept this mess going.

I've watched tennis for a long time and I know for a fact this strict adherence to a few seconds is a recent phenomena. It's never been a part of the game, because a few seconds here and there does not constitute cheating. Ask Woodrow, the professional umpire, he says all the players go over time, so it's obvious that it's nitpicking by disgruntled, unhappy people, imo.

Now, that's The Truth speaking for herself, not Gorecki putting words in her mouth.

Uh...no, to the bolded.
(Takes a bow)

LMAO, what a bunch of ignorant BS, I seriously doubt you have watched tennis very long, and you clearly don't play the sport at a competitive level.

It is Federer's fault that Nadal is a cheater? Federer makes Nadal take 40 plus seconds every break point before serving,huh?

It is called icing, and is used in other sports to break the opponents concentration and is being used by the cheater Nadal for the same purpose.

Funny how it is OK for "The Human Rain delay" to cheat taking time, but the one time someone did it to him back(soderling at wimbledon) the perennial cheater made a big spectacle of it like the world was going to end. What a selfish little brat.

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 11:11 PM
You are wrong in my case. Tennis is such a fast sport compared to almost all others. A few extra seconds when you know action is imminent just builds tension and drama. Think about why baseball is hypnotic to so many. The moment before the pitch allows the moment to build and gives the announcers time to build it even further. Baseball goes overboard into boredom much of the time but that is because there is so little action overall. Tennis needs the breathing room of different paces. Did you all ever wonder why Roddick's matches are kind of dull? His rapid points are part of the problem. We don't "see" him tapping into his tennis data bank the way more strategic players do.

Tsonga may have lost the match last night because he played some critical points in a way that seemed to the announcers and myself like he didn't register the gravity of the moment the way a better player would.

There is a bias on these boards against all styles of play that do not reflect the fast-twitch, frenetic pacing of all media products these days. I like tennis to have its own natural hybrid rhythm to take me away from all that. The 120 mph serves and 90 mph groundstrokes come soon enough. You people need to chill and realize that this law was made to be bent and broken like the 55mph speed limit. It is a useful hypocrisy that is a part of all systems of rules.

Awesome post.

Agree. Agree. Agree.

And regarding Tsonga, I thought the same thing. He never dared compose himself, worrying about a few measly seconds. This foolishness, imo, is ruining the sport. Now, people can't look at the mark and need to count seconds in their heads so as not to offend anybody.

Ridiculous!

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 11:18 PM
Other players do it such as Delpotro. Not just Nadal. Nadal is just cronic with it. It is part of his "game".
Yes one of the reasons Nadal, his "camp" and his fans should never fool anyone. Also why I fall asleep during his matches. zzzzzzzz.
It is definately a momentum killer. It is cheating. It also offers Nadal an upper hand.
Now it also the Officials and the organizations fault. They are not doing their job.
Yes they dont cover up for anyone? LOL! Wonder what other forms of corruption there is within....
:-)

Crystal meth.

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 11:25 PM
Errr....no you are wrong or in denial. I am going based on the measured and posted numbers, timed down to the tenth of a second. I have no "opinion" on how long people take, I just look at the numbers. Yes there were TIMES when he went really long like 50 seconds, but that was just a handful of times at moments where the match was intense with the crowd going nuts. Just about every player does this though at some point.

Again. This isn't a rules issue, or a fairness issue, because every player does it. This is still a "Nadal beats Federer and that ticks people off" issue.

And that's all it is. What's funnier is how nobody notices it when all of the players do it. You don't have to stand at the line, you can towel many times between points. But, there's a dichotomy here. Other players do it, Woodrow, the professional said, (a fact largely ignored by the ranters), but nobody falls asleep or considers it cheating in their case. They simply don't notice it. Hmm. Don't buy it.

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 11:27 PM
Here is Berdych's current "time wasting" standard. Care to comment? Nadal averaged less than 2 seconds longer last night just FYI.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9199/berdych.jpg

What a great tool! Now we can hunt the "cheaters" down and make them morally responsible. Lol!

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 11:29 PM
Umm...I have to disagree here. You can't stall the server when he's going to serve. Something like that gets called on. I've never seen anyone complain "I want to serve, get to the line!"

You just can't argue with the facts and the numbers that are posted on every single match played out. It's still a Nadal wins issue, and that's it. Tsonga was his normal cocky self until he started losing last night, then it was "No, no, no, no, no!" to the umpire. Kinda sad really.

Anytime Nadal starts winning, people start whining.

Absolutely!

TheTruth
04-01-2010, 11:33 PM
Oh well. Goodbye to this thread. It got the SmackDown. Gotta go get TennisTV time to see the real vs. imagined stats on all players, not just two. I've been hearing on here years.

Lsmkenpo
04-01-2010, 11:41 PM
Absolutely!

What a coincidence the 2 biggest hypocrites on the board agree with each other, and feel it is necessary to give ignorant backing to one anothers posts, how pitifully weak. LMAO, you backing his post pretty much guarantees it is seen as ignorance by the majority of the board.

Blinkism
04-01-2010, 11:51 PM
Pot calling the kettle black :lol:

What a coincidence the 2 biggest hypocrites on the board agree with each other, and feel it is necessary to give ignorant backing to one anothers posts, how pitifully weak. LMAO, you backing his post pretty much guarantees it is seen as ignorance by the majority of the board.

Strong words coming from a big Soderling fan who signed up in 2006 but had nothing to say about Soderling from 2006 to 2009, until after he beat Nadal at the FO

nothing, except for this lone post (posted 1 day before the Nadal-Soderling match at the FO):

Apparently Soderling is not friendly in the locker room and keeps to himself:

"He's a strange guy," Nadal said. "I've said 'Hi' to him at least seven times since I've been on the tour and he's never answered back. I asked other players about it. It doesn't only happen to me."

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon07/news/story?id=2925554

Let's not talk about hypocrisy, there.

namelessone
04-01-2010, 11:58 PM
Pot calling the kettle black :lol:



Strong words coming from a big Soderling fan who signed up in 2006 but had nothing to say about Soderling from 2006 to 2009, until after he beat Nadal at the FO
nothing, except for this lone post (posted 1 day before the Nadal-Soderling match at the FO):


Let's not talk about hypocrisy, there.

Well maybe he's been a silent long time Sod fan,you can't know that. But I loved that expression that TennisandMussic used(if I am not mistaken) about the users who become INSTA-FANS of the guys who are playing against Nadal. It holds water and not only in Nadal's case unfortunately,but especially with him lately.

Blinkism
04-02-2010, 12:02 AM
Well maybe he's been a silent long time Sod fan,you can't know that. But I loved that expression that TennisandMussic used(if I am not mistaken) about the users who become INSTA-FANS of the guys who are playing against Nadal. It holds water and not only in Nadal's case unfortunately,but especially with him lately.

It doesn't take more than a simple post search to see who the "INSTA-FANS" are

You have to wonder what triggers these dormant and totally authentic fan tendancies

:lol:

And ofcourse, they are more than qualified to judge who is and isn't a hypocrite, right?

abmk
04-02-2010, 12:11 AM
No. If you're going to speak for The Truth, then say what The Truth said in addition, and why. I think the time wasting garbage was started by Federer because Nadal was beating him. Fed made sure to "leave it out there" in numerous interviews, planting a seed so to speak. And yeah, people may say Agassi started it, but he was a sore loser too, so it's the same thing. Still, it was Federer who kept this mess going.

I've watched tennis for a long time and I know for a fact this strict adherence to a few seconds is a recent phenomena. It's never been a part of the game, because a few seconds here and there does not constitute cheating. Ask Woodrow, the professional umpire, he says all the players go over time, so it's obvious that it's nitpicking by disgruntled, unhappy people, imo.

Now, that's The Truth speaking for herself, not Gorecki putting words in her mouth.

Uh...no, to the bolded.
(Takes a bow)

what a whole load of crap !

reversef
04-02-2010, 12:47 AM
There's so much wrong in this post, it's clear that you cannot be even remotley objective. It's fine if you're biased and like Nadal, but don't twist the facts to your liking. It's better to not post at all and stay quiet like most Nadal fans who know this is a thread about a serious issue.

No, some Nadal's fans are tired of that kind of thread. Always the same arguments. You know that he's not the only one who takes time. The only reason why those threads are coming back again and again is that other players' fans think that if he needs time and is not allowed to take it, it could make him less dangerous. Why don't people talk about the other players who like to take their time (they are many)? Because a player who takes a lot of time and still loses the match doesn't bother them at all.

Lsmkenpo
04-02-2010, 01:08 AM
Strong words coming from a big Soderling fan who signed up in 2006 but had nothing to say about Soderling from 2006 to 2009, until after he beat Nadal at the FO




Let's not talk about hypocrisy, there.

Funny stuff, from the guy who who supports ******* trolls and talks crap about posters in the talk tennis chat room, yet likes to portray himself here on the public forum as the politically correct Nadal fan. Keep your self righteous BS to yourself, I know your true persona, too bad you just don't have the balls to display it on the public forum, I used to respect your take on things from a nadal fan's point of view, until I found out it is often not your true feeling.

Soderling was not much of a player until Magnus Norman started coaching him in 2008, he was an under achiever. Were you expecting a huge Soderling fan club here prior to that point in time, with Sodtards running amok all over the forum in support of the 30th ranked player in the world? So, yeah I really did not become a big fan of his until than, anything wrong with that, is it necessary to start fandom when players are still juniors to be considered a reputable fan or what, in your opinion?

I don't just like him because he crushed a healthy Nadal at the French, it did reinforce my support, but I was a fan before that point, I think I can go through my history and show that
I supported him prior, I am sure I posted something about his performance at Wimbledon the year before he crushed a healthy Nadal at the French. I happen to like his personality,and his playing style, his no nonsense approach on court,and his attacking topspin crushing play.

Funny, you should be critical of this, since you openly admit you never became a Nadal fan until he started to beat Federer. Hmm?

Blinkism
04-02-2010, 01:28 AM
Talk crap about posters in the what what where? Any "crap" I have to say, I say on the threads. Like I just did. Me saying to you that you shouldn't be calling anyone a hypocrite because you are, in fact, a hypocrite.

I don't know what you mean by "politically correct Nadal fan"... you mean I don't troll Federer threads? :lol: I'll take it as a compliment.

It's just interesting that you had almost nothing to say about him until he beat Nadal (who you were quite critical of before). Maybe I have you pegged all wrong. You'll have to forgive me, it's hard to know who the real fans of Soderling are and who are the over-night fans post-FO :lol:

I'm glad that his victory inspired you to finally vocalize something positive about him. It must have been so tough beforehand, keeping all those feelings pent up inside. He's a great player and I'm sure he'd be happy to have a fan as loyal as yourself.

Funny, you should be critical of this, since you openly admit you never became a Nadal fan until he started to beat Federer. Hmm?

Oh, yes, that is true. Federer was my favorite player. Now that's definitely Rafa, but I still consider Fed amongst my favorites.

Anyways, I don't want to hijack this thead and make it about you or I - especially when there's such an important topic to discuss :roll: I'm Audi.

Cesc Fabregas
04-02-2010, 01:41 AM
i love you too Cesc...

You too Babez xx.

Lsmkenpo
04-02-2010, 02:21 AM
Talk crap about posters in the what what where? Any "crap" I have to say, I say on the threads. Like right now. Me saying to you that you shouldn't be calling anyone a hypocrite because you are, in fact, a big hypocrite.

I don't know what you mean by "politically correct Nadal fan"... you mean I don't troll Federer threads? :lol:

That is not entirely true, I could go into specifics and name names and recount conversations, but it is far off topic and no good would come of it. Fine if you think I am a hypocrite, I think the same of you, so we are brothers in hypocrisy together, like it or not.


It's just interesting that you had almost nothing to say about him until he beat Nadal (who you were quite critical of before).

I'm glad that his victory inspired you to finally vocalize something positive about him. It must have been so tough beforehand, keeping all those feelings pent up inside.

Believe what you will, there is nothing that can be said to prove otherwise, nor does there need to be, I would be a fan of his even if he lost to Rafa at the French and will continue to be a fan if he never beats Rafa ever again.




Oh, yes, that is true. In 2006. Federer was my favorite player. Now that's definitely Rafa, but I still consider Fed amongst my favorites, yeah. One of the things that impressed me was how Nadal won his matches against Federer, true.

OK, so you are not a true Nadal fan since you did not support him until 2006 when he was an established winner, just as you claim I am not a true Soderling fan for the same reason.

Rippy
04-02-2010, 04:05 AM
Errr....no you are wrong or in denial. I am going based on the measured and posted numbers, timed down to the tenth of a second. I have no "opinion" on how long people take, I just look at the numbers. Yes there were TIMES when he went really long like 50 seconds, but that was just a handful of times at moments where the match was intense with the crowd going nuts. Just about every player does this though at some point.

Again. This isn't a rules issue, or a fairness issue, because every player does it. This is still a "Nadal beats Federer and that ticks people off" issue.

And that's all it is. What's funnier is how nobody notices it when all of the players do it. You don't have to stand at the line, you can towel many times between points. But, there's a dichotomy here. Other players do it, Woodrow, the professional said, (a fact largely ignored by the ranters), but nobody falls asleep or considers it cheating in their case. They simply don't notice it. Hmm. Don't buy it.

This isn't a "Nadal beats Federer" issue. It's to do with the time-wasting. Of course it's annoying no matter who the player is, but Nadal is one of the worst offenders, and as such a famous player, should really be trying to set a better example.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Simply because Woodrow is an umpire doesn't mean everyone has to agree with him - I would imagine umpires are divided in their opinion on this matter.

ksbh
04-02-2010, 04:37 AM
Blink ... He is a fan of the ugly Swedeling? IMO, he displays all the qualities of a *******. He's simply hanging on to the ugly Swedeling's nuts coz his man can't seem to do the job ... that is, beat Nadal!

Pot calling the kettle black :lol:



Strong words coming from a big Soderling fan who signed up in 2006 but had nothing to say about Soderling from 2006 to 2009, until after he beat Nadal at the FO

nothing, except for this lone post (posted 1 day before the Nadal-Soderling match at the FO):



Let's not talk about hypocrisy, there.

mandy01
04-02-2010, 04:42 AM
Errr....no you are wrong or in denial. I am going based on the measured and posted numbers, timed down to the tenth of a second. I have no "opinion" on how long people take, I just look at the numbers. Yes there were TIMES when he went really long like 50 seconds, but that was just a handful of times at moments where the match was intense with the crowd going nuts. Just about every player does this though at some point.

Again. This isn't a rules issue, or a fairness issue, because every player does it. This is still a "Nadal beats Federer and that ticks people off" issue.

And that's all it is. What's funnier is how nobody notices it when all of the players do it. You don't have to stand at the line, you can towel many times between points. But, there's a dichotomy here. Other players do it, Woodrow, the professional said, (a fact largely ignored by the ranters), but nobody falls asleep or considers it cheating in their case. They simply don't notice it. Hmm. Don't buy it.
Uh-huh.ALL of the players?

CMM
04-02-2010, 04:44 AM
Uh-huh.ALL of the players?

Only the ones that are not on roids.

mandy01
04-02-2010, 04:47 AM
This isn't a "Nadal beats Federer" issue. It's to do with the time-wasting. Of course it's annoying no matter who the player is, but Nadal is one of the worst offenders, and as such a famous player, should really be trying to set a better example.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Simply because Woodrow is an umpire doesn't mean everyone has to agree with him - I would imagine umpires are divided in their opinion on this matter.Exactly.And umpires HAVE called Nadal out for his time-wasting.Yes,they don't enforce the issue but looking at his matches it's obvious that he wastes time on important points.And he does it far too often for me to believe that it's unintentional.
It's fine-in the sense that it's all a part of the game but then I 'm rather amused when his fans turn around and point fingers at other players for everything-often citing Nadal as an example for sportsmanship.LOL .

Gorecki
04-02-2010, 04:47 AM
You too Babez xx.

:) yay... im "frenz" with cesc...

rafan
04-02-2010, 05:48 AM
Do people approve of crime in America? If not, why do they still live there?

That is so way out from the subject matter

rommil
04-02-2010, 06:03 AM
...............................

rommil
04-02-2010, 06:05 AM
:) yay... im "frenz" with cesc...

You too Babez xx.

Bleh.........you two, get a kennel.

Rippy
04-02-2010, 06:57 AM
That is so way out from the subject matter

Well it was a random example, true... but I was just saying, your logic wasn't right at all.

You said Nadal's timewasting wasn't a problem, and that nothing needs to be done, since people still watched him play.

Fair enough, but people still live in America, and I'd say the crime there is still a problem, and that efforts should be made to reduce crime.

TMF
04-02-2010, 07:09 AM
Anyways, I don't want to hijack this thead and make it about you or I - especially when there's such an important topic to discuss :roll: I'm Audi.

Haha. You are awared of what happened to the Bruce vs. Morrissey showdown. We don't want another clash between you and Lsmkenpo, do we? Haha

swordtennis
04-02-2010, 07:16 AM
Imagine a mixed doubles match where Nadal and Pierce played Djokovic and Sharapova.

Nightmare. But man do I sleep sound like a baby when they get on the court. Those long boring French opens matches. The tennis sounds just put you to sleep. Ahhhh. Very womblike. Soft couch. TV sound low. hours to get through a quick 3 setter.
Or I just turn the TV off. ;-)

swordtennis
04-02-2010, 07:18 AM
Really is not about the players. Its about the filthy corrupt organizations and ATP. Thats all. Nothing narccissistic about it. Sorry about that.

Sartorius
04-02-2010, 07:25 AM
Again. This isn't a rules issue, or a fairness issue, because every player does it.

No. I'm sure if you look at any player and keep a timer for every serve, you'll definitely stumble upon a several times when he'll go over 25 seconds. Nadal is one of the players who constantly goes over 25 seconds, sometimes even averaging about 40 seconds.

The other day umpire said to Tsonga not to worry and that he's keeping an eye on the timer. The very next point Nadal took over 30 seconds to serve (showed by the channel) and the umpire did nothing.

I would like to see Nadal take less time as he does this a lot, and he does it on important points too. But I don't really blame him, because it's the umpire's job to step in and enforce the rules. Sadly, they don't and it becomes a routine for Nadal, I think sometimes he probably doesn't even notice he's taking too long.

ProgressoR
04-02-2010, 08:06 AM
Oh, here's Mr. Anglo-Saxon-Knowitall mocking me for being a non-English-speaking individual... what a cheap shot. I don't mind if I can't spell correctly in Spanish either, your attitude is still atrocious and (drumroll please!) racist!!!

OK, that's it, I've finally said it.


First let me congratulate you on initiating a battle of wits with a Brit, this takes some courage, and perhaps some delusion too.
I have no issues with being superior to others, I have gotten used to this over the years, though it seems others can have issue with this.


...Ok, that was gross, but your puerile attitude forced me to lower myself to this childish level of interaction.

No need to make excuses, as mentioned above, interaction with a superior intellect has this effect on many people, you are not alone. When I do experience interaction with a superior intellect, I will be sure to let you know how it feels for me.


Back to the subject of this thread, it feels rude to continuously grace the forum without at least some mention of the topic.

Yes, Rafa does appear on occasion to exceed the allotted time in between serves. And that is my conclusive opinion. You will find that any other discussion around this topic is not very necessary, but should be encouraged as long as it is fun.

drakulie
04-02-2010, 08:13 AM
Hilarious. You can't stall the server when he's going to serve? You must be kidding me right? Remember this whole charade?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwvgnYDTTQ0


Or how about Nadal taking over a minute and a half to do a water bottle ritual over a mini change over in his tiebreak vs Roddick last year, when Roddick was about to serve?

Nadal also stalled Agassi and Federer on multiple occasions, so I don't see where you get this ridiculous notion that you can't stall the server. Sharapova is notorious for doing this, as is Nadal. Hell, Mary Pierce is another player that does it too, redoing her hair inbetween points.




Actually that did happen. Agassi after a long point stepped up to the line after making Nadal run around the court like a rabbit, and Nadal simply just went off and basically did his little rituals, and Agassi was asking why Nadal was not playing to the pace of the server. I guess you don't watch that much tennis or you would have remembered that. Or maybe you have selective memory? Agassi is pretty bad about being unreasonable, but I'm just pointing you out an example of Nadal stalling a person attempting to serve.


Quoted for the truth.

Damn Chair Umps need to grow a pair and start handing out warnings, and then point penalties.

Gorecki
04-02-2010, 08:23 AM
Bleh.........you two, get a kennel.

shush... dont let him know im being sarcastic at his total absense of humour!

bolo
04-02-2010, 10:00 AM
What if if they instituted a 30 sec. rule for each point and instituted a chess clock type system. That might solve a lot of the problems. If there is crowd interference every now and then, server will just have to deal with it. They might increase the time a bit for super hot days. in australia.

VilasFan
04-02-2010, 10:26 AM
I'm a big fan of Rafa, but he's does abuse the time btw points rule. It needs to be enforced, for all players. I would also like to propose a new rule...no more than 3 pre-serve bounces. Djokovic, Ljubicic, Nadal, Del Potro et al, need to be reigned in. It's OCD on steroids to have to bounce the ball 5,7,10 times before the point begins. We can call it the "Lendl" rule.