PDA

View Full Version : Which retail Wilson Tour 90 is closest to FEDERER's actual racquet?


Pages : [1] 2

Rexking
04-06-2010, 12:58 AM
Which retail Wilson Tour 90 is closest to FEDERER's actual racquet in terms of composition, weight distribution, string pattern, "feel" and etc?

ProStaff Tour 90, Ncode Tour 90, KFactor Tour 90 or BLX Tour 90?

I have searched and the results were confusing. There were debates between the Ncode and KFactor, but now they are people believing he is using the new BLX:confused::confused:

roger nadal
04-06-2010, 04:33 AM
ya he has already said he uses the K factor, but that was when k factors were sold. now he says he uses BLX. he gets paid alot of money to lie

ChevyTennis
04-06-2010, 05:20 AM
ya he has already said he uses the K factor, but that was when k factors were sold. now he says he uses BLX. he gets paid alot of money to lie
Well Said!

Chezbeeno
04-06-2010, 05:48 AM
I've heard he's using the K90 now but there's no way to be sure

Manhattan Captain
04-06-2010, 06:25 AM
He has used the PS85 90sqi version for many years now according to my sources at ****.

Danstevens
04-06-2010, 07:03 AM
It was confirmed by someone from Priority One that Federer did in fact use the K90 but as for what he's using now, I'm not sure that anyone outside of his "circle" knows for sure.

coloskier
04-06-2010, 08:51 AM
It was confirmed by someone from Priority One that Federer did in fact use the K90 but as for what he's using now, I'm not sure that anyone outside of his "circle" knows for sure.

Priority One has confirmed that he uses the BLX. All they do to it is make the weight 360 grams, make sure they are all balanced the same, and do some grip work. That's all they do, otherwise it is stock.

Povl Carstensen
04-06-2010, 11:41 AM
Priority One has confirmed that he uses the BLX. All they do to it is make the weight 360 grams, make sure they are all balanced the same, and do some grip work. That's all they do, otherwise it is stock.

I would be very happy if anyone has a link to this, thank you!

dextor
04-06-2010, 12:56 PM
Priority One has confirmed that he uses the BLX. All they do to it is make the weight 360 grams, make sure they are all balanced the same, and do some grip work. That's all they do, otherwise it is stock.

Need source. Thanks.

coloskier
04-06-2010, 01:49 PM
Need source. Thanks.

Source is my Wilson rep who I've known for 30 years who just came back from Priority One's office. I know for some that isn't good enough because they believe in conspiracy theories. But I have never had a reason to disbelieve this person in 30 years. That and the fact that I used to be on Wilson's free list when I was nationally ranked as a junior and toured Wilson's facilities many times.

roger nadal
04-06-2010, 02:06 PM
like i said hes paid alot to lie. no one knows

coloskier
04-07-2010, 09:02 AM
like i said hes paid alot to lie. no one knows

He's not paid that much, so he has no reason to lie. Of course, if there wasn't a "paintjob conspiracy", half the people on this forum would have nothing to talk about.

RJYU
04-07-2010, 09:07 AM
Source is my Wilson rep who I've known for 30 years who just came back from Priority One's office. I know for some that isn't good enough because they believe in conspiracy theories. But I have never had a reason to disbelieve this person in 30 years. That and the fact that I used to be on Wilson's free list when I was nationally ranked as a junior and toured Wilson's facilities many times.


Wanted respond to this post to clear up a situation. We have NEVER had a Wilson rep come visit our office.

Tour90
04-07-2010, 09:47 AM
you've been served!

roger nadal
04-07-2010, 10:22 AM
He's not paid that much, so he has no reason to lie. Of course, if there wasn't a "paintjob conspiracy", half the people on this forum would have nothing to talk about.

im sorry but we are talking about roger federer. hes the highest paid player on the planet and has a lifetime contract with wilson. he is paid alot

Hidious
04-07-2010, 12:23 PM
Reps will never tell about pj. They have all the reasons to lie since they need the new line to sell.

JoelDali
04-07-2010, 12:29 PM
I played 3 sets this morning with my old PT90 strung with 6 month old Flouro and it was awesome...Its so much heftier than a BLX90. I was playing extemely consistent with it. Still a classic.

coloskier
04-07-2010, 01:22 PM
im sorry but we are talking about roger federer. hes the highest paid player on the planet and has a lifetime contract with wilson. he is paid alot

I was talking about the Rep, not Roger.

roger nadal
04-07-2010, 01:48 PM
I was talking about the Rep, not Roger.

oh, my bad dude sorry

martini1
04-08-2010, 09:13 PM
Not bashing anybody here but here's my take:

- Fed uses the Pro Staff line, that's a given.
- The spec of his racket is very close to the retail version of the K90, minus the lead added for him. This has been proven from actual P1 pics.
- Fed did not use the N-code (material) ver, so there is little incentive for him to use the K graphite or the BLX basalt. This is from the simple logic of each time a "new material" is used the feel is changed. Pros usually don't like the big change in feel. They only do the fine tuning on the strings. That is true for almost all top pros out there, don't see how Fed would be so different, although I could be wrong.
- Pros that have been playing over 10 yrs since a junior usually stick with the spec/feel they used to...until they retire and loses the big sponsorship. Michael Chang is now using the APDC for example.

So my conclusion is Roger is using the same custom frame since he landed his big contract with Wilson, which would be his custom frame after the PS85 from 2001. And probably only Fed and HIS wilson rep will know for sure. All others are just told Fed is using whatever the current line is, plus some customization. That is not really lying because they can call it a BLX still, but customized for Fed. And one of the customization is being molded in a slightly different material.

People from P1 never hit with the clients' racquets, the stringer would never know if they feel different from the stick Fed used later year or the year before. They also won't cut it in half and see what's inside.

The only thing they can confirm is when some cosmetic features are indeed different, like the painted on cortex on Roddick and Rafa's sticks.

Povl Carstensen
04-09-2010, 03:09 AM
Well "K-graphite" might just be a fancy name for ordinary graphite/carbon fibre. So the K could be what hes playing with. No definite proof but certainly a lot of more than hints in that direction.

Automatix
04-09-2010, 03:41 AM
Wanted respond to this post to clear up a situation. We have NEVER had a Wilson rep come visit our office. Thank you for the clarification mr Yu! THANK YOU!

martini1
04-09-2010, 01:05 PM
Wanted respond to this post to clear up a situation. We have NEVER had a Wilson rep come visit our office.

Thank you for the clarification mr Yu! THANK YOU!

Makes sense. Why would a Wilson sales rep going to a stringer company and talk about paint job rackets? P1 doesn't sell rackets. If you are saying they buy strings and butt caps and grips that would make more sense.

RJYU
04-09-2010, 01:33 PM
People from P1 never hit with the clients' racquets, the stringer would never know if they feel different from the stick Fed used later year or the year before. They also won't cut it in half and see what's inside.

The only thing they can confirm is when some cosmetic features are indeed different, like the painted on cortex on Roddick and Rafa's sticks.

I've actually hit with a lot of our clients' racquets, AND we have been known to cut open racquets from time to time if we're curious to see what's inside.

I don't think you're giving our "noseyness" enough credit.

ChevyTennis
04-09-2010, 01:41 PM
I've actually hit with a lot of our clients' racquets, AND we have been known to cut open racquets from time to time if we're curious to see what's inside.

I don't think you're giving our "noseyness" enough credit.

Hey Ron, out of curiosity, what level player are you?

RJYU
04-09-2010, 01:52 PM
Hey Ron, out of curiosity, what level player are you?

I'm a hack now. I didn't play more than 10 times between 2000-2009. I've got two bad knees that don't like me playing much tennis. Although since we've hired Glynn, he likes to go out and hit, and I've actually hit with him about 20 times in the past couple of years.

Back between 1985-1995, I probably hit 3 or 4 times per week. At one point I was rated as a 5.0 player, but now I'd say I'm more at a 3.5-4.0 level now. Even if I started hitting a lot again, I couldn't do too well in a match. I could probably rally in practice decently, but my knees don't allow me to make too many quick direction changes.

Sephiroth619
04-09-2010, 02:45 PM
It's gotta be Pro Staff Tour 90, with 3-4g of lead at 12 O'Clock. Fin.

onehandbh
04-09-2010, 02:49 PM
I've actually hit with a lot of our clients' racquets, AND we have been known to cut open racquets from time to time if we're curious to see what's inside.

I don't think you're giving our "nosiness" enough credit.

So hypothetically, let's say someone cut open one of Fed's
BLX90s, what conclusion would they come to regarding
what Fed is using?

martini1
04-09-2010, 04:54 PM
I've actually hit with a lot of our clients' racquets, AND we have been known to cut open racquets from time to time if we're curious to see what's inside.

I don't think you're giving our "noseyness" enough credit.

Oh did you say one time you never hit with Federer's K90? May be I was mistaken.

Just curious, for those you guys have played with. Are they like "left over" from a match or just rackets players didn't take with them after a tournament? It would be kind of odd if they have rackets with used strings or one is missing because it was cut opened... interesting.

martini1
04-09-2010, 04:56 PM
So hypothetically, let's say someone cut open one of Fed's
BLX90s, what conclusion would they come to regarding
what Fed is using?

You'll have to cut open the K90 and N90 too to compare if there is any difference. However I assume you'll have to take the sample to a lab to find out exactly how the material used is different from the retail ver.

volleynets
04-09-2010, 05:21 PM
Source is my Wilson rep who I've known for 30 years who just came back from Priority One's office. I know for some that isn't good enough because they believe in conspiracy theories. But I have never had a reason to disbelieve this person in 30 years. That and the fact that I used to be on Wilson's free list when I was nationally ranked as a junior and toured Wilson's facilities many times.

Wanted respond to this post to clear up a situation. We have NEVER had a Wilson rep come visit our office.

LOL don't make stuff up coloskier

film1
04-09-2010, 05:25 PM
Which retail Wilson Tour 90 is closest to FEDERER's actual racquet in terms of composition, weight distribution, string pattern, "feel" and etc?

ProStaff Tour 90, Ncode Tour 90, KFactor Tour 90 or BLX Tour 90?

I have searched and the results were confusing. There were debates between the Ncode and KFactor, but now they are people believing he is using the new BLX:confused::confused:

I personally believe he plays with a racquet very much like like the ncode tour 90. I think the average player out there found it a difficult frame to use and sales were slow so they made significant changes to the kfactor to make it more user friendly.
Doubt you will read much on here backing that up but a good friend of who played at a high level thinks that's the case and I have some confidence in his opinion.
I also think the BLX is trying to help deal with all the kfactor TE complaints like Babolat added cortex to help deal with those same type issues.

You can bet Feds not using the muted blx and Roddicks not using cortex.

Povl Carstensen
04-10-2010, 09:12 PM
"It's gotta be Pro Staff Tour 90, with 3-4g of lead at 12 O'Clock. Fin."

"I personally believe he plays with a racquet very much like like the code tour 90. I think the average player out there found it a difficult frame to use and sales were slow so they made significant changes to the kfactor to make it more user friendly.
Doubt you will read much on here backing that up but a good friend of who played at a high level thinks that's the case and I have some confidence in his opinion.
I also think the BLX is trying to help deal with all the kfactor TE complaints like Babolat added cortex to help deal with those same type issues.

You can bet Feds not using the muted blx and Roddicks not using cortex."


Priority 1 has said that he used of the line K90, which they modify slightly. Are you guys saying they are lying? I find their word more reliable than your "beliefs", sorry.

mcshift
04-10-2010, 09:20 PM
Priority One has confirmed that he uses the BLX. All they do to it is make the weight 360 grams, make sure they are all balanced the same, and do some grip work. That's all they do, otherwise it is stock.

well, id disagree with this... there was a great post on this like a month ago that compared the racquets that priority one had vs. the stock version and from what i can remember the paint job was slightly different in a few areas and it was something about the spacing of the grommets that was like more evenly spaced out or something.
if you go to the priority one site you can see the pics of feds sticks...

mcshift
04-10-2010, 09:23 PM
I personally believe he plays with a racquet very much like like the ncode tour 90. I think the average player out there found it a difficult frame to use and sales were slow so they made significant changes to the kfactor to make it more user friendly.
Doubt you will read much on here backing that up but a good friend of who played at a high level thinks that's the case and I have some confidence in his opinion.
I also think the BLX is trying to help deal with all the kfactor TE complaints like Babolat added cortex to help deal with those same type issues.

You can bet Feds not using the muted blx and Roddicks not using cortex.

yeah your totally right, so many players stick with the older frames cause all this new technology just takes away the feel (for example the PST GT compared to the carbonextreme PST), roddick and nadal both dont use cortex...

although personally i think he uses a slightly modified k90

Povl Carstensen
04-10-2010, 10:32 PM
yeah your totally right, so many players stick with the older frames cause all this new technology just takes away the feel (for example the PST GT compared to the carbonextreme PST), roddick and nadal both dont use cortex...

although personally i think he uses a slightly modified k90

Agree. And it is almost inpolite to babble (sorry) on about "beliefs" etc when we have Ron Yu of P1 right here on this thread.

ChevyTennis
04-11-2010, 04:12 AM
I'm a hack now. I didn't play more than 10 times between 2000-2009. I've got two bad knees that don't like me playing much tennis. Although since we've hired Glynn, he likes to go out and hit, and I've actually hit with him about 20 times in the past couple of years.

Back between 1985-1995, I probably hit 3 or 4 times per week. At one point I was rated as a 5.0 player, but now I'd say I'm more at a 3.5-4.0 level now. Even if I started hitting a lot again, I couldn't do too well in a match. I could probably rally in practice decently, but my knees don't allow me to make too many quick direction changes.

Ah... the old knees will get ya every time! The older I get the more my knees dislike the hard courts!

NicoMK
04-11-2010, 04:27 AM
What I've heard about Roger's racquet is what Nate from P1 personally said to me at Wimbledon in 2006, where I was stringing for Bow Brand. He said that Fed was using a 90 sq inch Pro Staff Tour (the black one), with a different weight and balance (lead, etc..). But the most important thing was that Federer's racquet had a different string pattern. Said no more though. Then we talked about Pete... A very nice chap, Nate...

I also strung Federer's racquet at the Lyon tournament in 2000, he was pretty shy as far as I remember. He was using the Pro Staff 85 (same as Pete) but he has switched since then.

No pic form that day, sorry, I couldn't imagine the young Swiss would become the player he is now...

jackcrawford
04-11-2010, 07:09 AM
But the most important thing was that Federer's racquet had a different string pattern.String spacing is what you mean the "pro room" N90 had a different string spacing than the retail, the K90 retail has that same "compact" spacing of the 16x19 pattern.

Bhagi Katbamna
04-11-2010, 07:12 AM
Reps will never tell about pj. They have all the reasons to lie since they need the new line to sell.

Maybe not reps but the guy that was in MW sports tent at the Head booth at Cincy 2009(very knowledgeable person and a super nice guy to boot: a credit to Head) openly talked about pros using paintjob rackets.

NicoMK
04-11-2010, 12:35 PM
String spacing is what you mean

Yeah, string spacing is a more accurate term... ;) Thanks.

martini1
04-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Maybe not reps but the guy that was in MW sports tent at the Head booth at Cincy 2009(very knowledgeable person and a super nice guy to boot: a credit to Head) openly talked about pros using paintjob rackets.

Umm... but no company will openly admit, or advertise the pros are using a totally different racket to be painted just like the retail ver? But when u look at the Wilson entry level line sold at walmart or target, especially the junior ones, they painted to look like the BLX 90 or others like what the Williams/Henin are using. Heck they even put their pictures on the card board as if Fed is using them. Nobody complaint about those since it is hard to believe a pro will use a $35 racket or something.

So along that line of logic the company can also say a $199 racket is just a fancier ver and the pros use something "similar" hmmk "look alike" that is 80% the real thing. Have to call a lawyer to find out if this is touching the grey area of the false advertising act though. I personally gave up on the idea of using the same spec same everything racket as the pro. Other than the look there is nothing to it. Having such a heavy racket without the skills does nothing to me. If anybody wants a real Federer spec racket the only one is the PS85 he used before his fame.

Povl Carstensen
04-12-2010, 02:43 AM
You'll have to cut open the K90 and N90 too to compare if there is any difference. However I assume you'll have to take the sample to a lab to find out exactly how the material used is different from the retail ver.

No you dont have to cut them open because they are a different mould.

[QUOTE]If anybody wants a real Federer spec racket the only one is the PS85 he used before his fame.[QUOTE]

His PS was modified with lead tape (and perhaps more). The K90 is just as good a suggestion (and closer to present), imo.

morten
04-12-2010, 07:53 AM
No you dont have to cut them open because they are a different mould.

[QUOTE]If anybody wants a real Federer spec racket the only one is the PS85 he used before his fame.[QUOTE]

His PS was modified with lead tape (and perhaps more). The K90 is just as good a suggestion (and closer to present), imo.

i spoke to Roger in 2001 and talked to him, he used a china ps85, and lead only to match the frames... i aggre with the previous post that the only Federer racket is this one, no way he plays K90 or BLX, too different...

Povl Carstensen
04-12-2010, 12:18 PM
If anybody wants a real Federer spec racket the only one is the PS85 he used before his fame.

i spoke to Roger in 2001 and talked to him, he used a china ps85, and lead only to match the frames... i aggre with the previous post that the only Federer racket is this one, no way he plays K90 or BLX, too different...

So if P1 says he plays with a K90, you know better, or say they are lying?

Bhagi Katbamna
04-12-2010, 12:55 PM
Umm... but no company will openly admit, or advertise the pros are using a totally different racket to be painted just like the retail ver? But when u look at the Wilson entry level line sold at walmart or target, especially the junior ones, they painted to look like the BLX 90 or others like what the Williams/Henin are using. Heck they even put their pictures on the card board as if Fed is using them. Nobody complaint about those since it is hard to believe a pro will use a $35 racket or something.


He was a representative from Head(not MW Sports) and he was openly admitting it.

film1
04-12-2010, 02:43 PM
If I owned a company that had access to a player racquets there is no way I would ever say the player was not using the model I had access to unless I did not value having the opportunity to work for them.

Not saying what anyone else would or should do, I am saying there in no way I personally would blow that professional relationship which is exactly what should and probably happen if I said, hey everyone, guess what, xyz player is not even using the racquet in the store, this is more like a old frame he used to use a long time ago. You all are suckers, don't buy them thinking your getting the same frame he uses.
\
It's kind of ridiculous and silly is it not? Use some basic common sense.
Imagine this type of phone conversation for entertainment only:

Company-Hi one of the best Players in the world, we know you had a great year, best ever, but we need to change your racquet, seems sales are slowing down and we have made a few minor changes we think you and the general public might like, especially the weekend warriors.
We have this new technology that will help knock out some of the vibration to help with tennis elbow and some unwanted vibrations.

Player-My elbow is fine, thank you, but I don't want to loose any feel

Company-Don't worry, you will get used to it, our testers think it's great and again, it blocks some unwanted vibrations. One of the testers is a solid 5.5 and he loves it so you should be happy.

Player-That's great and all but I am not wanting to master another frame right now, I just mastered the last one you changed on me and it seems every time I master one you make me change. You know, some of the racquets were not even very much alike, that is why I was off to a slow start two years ago. The red one seemed to have more flex than the white one and that threw me off for months.

Company-But great player, think of the weekend warriors, they want less vibrations because they miss hit a lot and you will adapt.
You know, we have to keep up with that compound they put in the other great players racquet.

Player-But the other great player does not even use the compound, it's just painted on his frame.

Company-Hey, maybe we could do the same thing, just paint it to look like the new ones, then we could make changes with out making you change every couple of years.

DownTheLine
04-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Federer switched from a PS85 to a PS90 around 2001. Federer doesn't use the K line, the BLX line or the N line. Go search and within the first 3 pages you'll find 45654 threads on this topic.

martini1
04-12-2010, 07:24 PM
He was a representative from Head(not MW Sports) and he was openly admitting it.

It would be interesting if u call up Head, say VP of marketing or the COO, ask them the same question and then say "your rep XXXX openly admits what you sell retail is not the same frames the players use". See how they response. I bet they won't say something like "Yes, we just paint the players' frames to look like the ones we are selling now. We just make the consumers believe they can buy whatever their idols are using." :lol:

martini1
04-12-2010, 07:25 PM
No you dont have to cut them open because they are a different mould.

[QUOTE]If anybody wants a real Federer spec racket the only one is the PS85 he used before his fame.[QUOTE]

His PS was modified with lead tape (and perhaps more). The K90 is just as good a suggestion (and closer to present), imo.

This is material science I am talking about. The mold has nothing to do it.

martini1
04-12-2010, 07:35 PM
Federer switched from a PS85 to a PS90 around 2001. Federer doesn't use the K line, the BLX line or the N line. Go search and within the first 3 pages you'll find 45654 threads on this topic.

And nobody on the board really can confirm if he indeed used the PS90 (stock) as well. My gut feel is the PS90 he used is very similar to his PS85. But at 19 and you scored a bigger contract by switching to a new looking frame he may just do it. Who knows. And it may just be the reason why he wasn't playing just as good/consistent in 2002. It took him a while to master the new frame again... just a theory though.

Povl Carstensen
04-13-2010, 12:36 AM
This is material science I am talking about. The mold has nothing to do it.

Ofcourse the mould has to do with whether its the same racket.

Povl Carstensen
04-13-2010, 12:38 AM
Federer switched from a PS85 to a PS90 around 2001. Federer doesn't use the K line, the BLX line or the N line. Go search and within the first 3 pages you'll find 45654 threads on this topic.

And you just "know" this?

Povl Carstensen
04-13-2010, 12:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eql8Jnpa9Bs

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=252269&highlight=Nate+Ferguson+interview

morten
04-13-2010, 01:55 AM
So if P1 says he plays with a K90, you know better, or say they are lying?

i think they are lying...

Povl Carstensen
04-13-2010, 03:28 AM
Youre perfectly entitled to your opinion, and I hope its ok I credit Nate Ferguson and Ron Yu more than your beliefs.

GasquetGOAT
04-13-2010, 06:41 AM
Federer switched from a PS85 to a PS90 around 2001. Federer doesn't use the K line, the BLX line or the N line. Go search and within the first 3 pages you'll find 45654 threads on this topic.

As far as I have read here. Federer switched from a PS85 to a "PS90" around 2001 (the alleged PS90 he switced to, actually had a lot in common with the later released K90 than the retail PS90 at the time).

Federer doesn't use the PS line or the N line. Go search and within the first 3 pages you'll find 45654 threads on this topic.
As for the BLX line, I don't think there are even 565 threads about it on here.

morten
04-13-2010, 06:55 AM
Youre perfectly entitled to your opinion, and I hope its ok I credit Nate Ferguson and Ron Yu more than your beliefs.

ok thanks, i am just a lifelong ps85 user, maybe stubborn, but no i have no reason to believe Nate or Ron, they are all part of the industry... and the ps85 plays too different to the 90 sized Wilsons... You have many good posts Povl, so i hope we(scandinavians) can still be friends :)

Povl Carstensen
04-13-2010, 12:52 PM
Ofcourse, we are here because of a common interest!

To get it out of my system, here are my main reasons to believe the K90 is probably very close to what Federer is using:
1. The Nate Ferguson interview.
2. The fact that the K was the first 90" pro staff with the same string spacing and grip length as Federer is using.
3. That Wilson in their marketing of the K put extraordinary emphasis on that this was the actual racket Federer was playing and had helped develop.
4. The fact that a Federer racket aquired by a former board member (documented by foto) matched up very well with a production racket plus a few grams of lead (and overgrip).

And I happen to own a chinese PS 85 and a K90, have played both, and I think (contrary to some people here..), that the K is quite a nice effort to make a slightly more bigheaded and forgiving 85.

As to whether Federer has changed to BLX, I just find it quite unlikely that Federer should change racket every 2-3 years at the optimal interval according to the Wilson marketing departement...

Rexking
04-17-2010, 01:45 PM
Thanks for everyones posts in the thread. So it seems the common consensus is that the K90 is the closest to what Federer uses.

stoble
04-17-2010, 03:51 PM
I agree with those that say the K90 is VERY close to what Federer plays. But I don't think it is the same. The reason I don't believe this is because that would mean that Federer would have changed material in his frames from whatever it was before to the [K]arophite. He obviously wasn't using [K]arophite before the line was introduced right?

So I say he's using a K90 made of the older graphite that the Pro Staffs use.

MrFlip
04-17-2010, 04:22 PM
How can people say that Federer didnt use the K90? Did Fabfed get given three racquets to make it look like Roger uses them? Pretty good attempt, seemed to convince me he uses them. The BLX 90s certainly beg the question because of the muted feel.

Federer would probably prefer the K90 with same specs.

NikeUp
04-17-2010, 05:32 PM
Notice how none of the big dogs of this forum are getting involved in this trivial debate....

Rexking
04-18-2010, 03:37 AM
Notice how none of the big dogs of this forum are getting involved in this trivial debate....

Who are those "big dogs" you speak of? and why are they so special? Just curious...

NikeUp
04-18-2010, 03:46 AM
There are quite a few, but they are guys (or girls, who knows...) that actually know stuff. They give you answers, not speculations... And they only really chip in with real info. Ericsson, Vsbabolat and RacketCraft, just to name a few...

Babolast
04-18-2010, 07:54 AM
NikeUp did you ever get a hold of them Adi 2011 pics?

corners
04-18-2010, 09:15 AM
As to whether Federer has changed to BLX, I just find it quite unlikely that Federer should change racket every 2-3 years at the optimal interval according to the Wilson marketing departement...

Especially after ripping Djokovic last year for being fool enough to switch racquets at that stage in his career.

With two or three years left to collect enough slams to match Court, I don't think Roger is going to be adding any mushy basalt to the frame he's been using for eight years or so.

NikeUp
04-18-2010, 09:34 AM
NikeUp did you ever get a hold of them Adi 2011 pics?

hey man. It's not for the lack of trying that i havent got them yet! My source is a little apprehensive about leaking me the photo's as obviously there would be big consequences if they ever got caught. But i'm gonna keep trying and as soon as i succeed you'll know about it!!

NU

Babolast
04-18-2010, 10:20 AM
NU my man, sorry ive been busting your balls. If you cant get pics thats cool just try and get the colours and il be happy.

Your boy Babolast.

Povl Carstensen
04-18-2010, 11:13 AM
I agree with those that say the K90 is VERY close to what Federer plays. But I don't think it is the same. The reason I don't believe this is because that would mean that Federer would have changed material in his frames from whatever it was before to the [K]arophite. He obviously wasn't using [K]arophite before the line was introduced right?

So I say he's using a K90 made of the older graphite that the Pro Staffs use.

Its not at all unlikely that [K]arophite is not a new material, but just a marketing word.

Povl Carstensen
04-18-2010, 11:14 AM
Notice how none of the big dogs of this forum are getting involved in this trivial debate....

Well if they have something to add, it would be interesting.

NikeUp
04-18-2010, 01:48 PM
NU my man, sorry ive been busting your balls. If you cant get pics thats cool just try and get the colours and il be happy.

Your boy Babolast.

No worries, it's not a problem. I'd love to get hold of them myself!

Well if they have something to add, it would be interesting.

They have on numerous threads, it's just a matter of using the search function.....

Povl Carstensen
04-18-2010, 02:09 PM
They have on numerous threads, it's just a matter of using the search function.....

Well Ive followed this board quite closely for years so dont need to search. If you have something relevant to add to this discussion feel free to do so.

Povl Carstensen
04-19-2010, 03:00 AM
Thanks for everyones posts in the thread. So it seems the common consensus is that the K90 is the closest to what Federer uses.

It seems so. But look out for them big dogs...
By the way, just stating my own opinion here.

armsty
04-19-2010, 03:03 AM
Wilson claims (in their latest video interview from us, the public, please check it out on their Facebook) that Federer works very closely with them with the 6.1 LINE, not just the tour. So I would say what he's playing with is closest to the racquet that's out now,.

everard104
04-19-2010, 10:35 AM
:neutral:
is it just me or is anyone else tired of all the whining about the fact that pros don't use the retail versions of the racquets they promote? who cares what's under their paint? Gezus

Rexking
04-23-2010, 04:40 AM
I agree with those that say the K90 is VERY close to what Federer plays. But I don't think it is the same. The reason I don't believe this is because that would mean that Federer would have changed material in his frames from whatever it was before to the [K]arophite. He obviously wasn't using [K]arophite before the line was introduced right?So I say he's using a K90 made of the older graphite that the Pro Staffs use.

Why not? It is quite impossible that he was using the K before the line was introduced publicly. Afterall he does have the privilege as the no.1 endorsed player of Wilson, so it wouldn't be too far fetched that he was using the material a few seasons before it's official introduction.

marosmith
04-23-2010, 08:53 PM
Well, if Wilson is anything like Head he uses an all graphite pro moddel which is the same mold, or at least shape of the old pro staff 90 and he customizes the lighter pro stock racket as his racket was confirmed to be polarized so I doubt it is stock as he could not get a retail stock racket to be polarized unless he was hitting something over 13.5 oz. I doubt he changes technologies from the original graphite.

marosmith
04-23-2010, 08:54 PM
:neutral:
is it just me or is anyone else tired of all the whining about the fact that pros don't use the retail versions of the racquets they promote? who cares what's under their paint? Gezus

But until people search, read threads and see PICTURES for about an hour or so they don't understand the difference between pro stock and retail and so they just assume everything is retail. Makes for funny threads though.

pmerk34
04-24-2010, 03:44 PM
:neutral:
is it just me or is anyone else tired of all the whining about the fact that pros don't use the retail versions of the racquets they promote? who cares what's under their paint? Gezus

Apparently a very tiny percentage of people do and they all post here. They can't face the fact that for years Fed has used a retail K90 with lead added. Maybe they are upset when they use a k90 they can't play like Fed. Maybe they secretly wish it was a pro staff from 1984. Maybe they want to sue Wilson.

Whatever it is it's annoying.

pmerk34
04-24-2010, 03:45 PM
But until people search, read threads and see PICTURES for about an hour or so they don't understand the difference between pro stock and retail and so they just assume everything is retail. Makes for funny threads though.

Yea, but who cares? Fed uses a K90 with some lead tape. WOW amazing.

samster
04-24-2010, 04:05 PM
Federer switched from a PS85 to a PS90 around 2001. Federer doesn't use the K line, the BLX line or the N line. Go search and within the first 3 pages you'll find 45654 threads on this topic.

Funny. But true.

marosmith
04-24-2010, 05:40 PM
Yea, but who cares? Fed uses a K90 with some lead tape. WOW amazing.

Wow! You are wrong!!

Rexking
04-27-2010, 08:00 AM
Apparently a very tiny percentage of people do and they all post here. They can't face the fact that for years Fed has used a retail K90 with lead added. Maybe they are upset when they use a k90 they can't play like Fed. Maybe they secretly wish it was a pro staff from 1984. Maybe they want to sue Wilson.

Whatever it is it's annoying.

I wouldn't be surprised if thats true. But everybody loves a conspiracy, its just too easy if Fed uses a retail K90!

dextor
04-27-2010, 11:23 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if thats true. But everybody loves a conspiracy, its just too easy if Fed uses a retail K90!

No kidding, the secret to godliness is obviously the special racquet

volleynets
04-27-2010, 12:13 PM
Wow! You are wrong!!

I'm pretty sure Ron Yu confirmed that it is a retail K90 with slight modifications. I would believe someone who has seen and held Fed's rackets. IF I am wrong someone say something.

Rexking
04-30-2010, 07:07 AM
No kidding, the secret to godliness is obviously the special racquet

so true!

10ch

cork_screw
05-02-2010, 06:01 AM
I'm sure everyone here thinks they know.

Big_Dangerous
05-04-2010, 12:03 AM
im sorry but we are talking about roger federer. hes the highest paid player on the planet and has a lifetime contract with wilson. he is paid alot

Tennis Player, yes, but don't he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is in it just for the money. I'd be more willing to believe he uses a modified BLX. I mean he's the greatest tennis player on the planet, you don't honestly think he'll use the next racket Wilson puts out, designed almost entirely for him? I mean if he's so good why the **** can't he adjust to a new racket that is designed specifically for him?? Doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe other guys do that but idk, I doubt it's as common as a lot of you guys make it out to be. Obviously the pros aren't using off the wall rackets, they do modifications to them, but I'm willing to bet a high percentage of pros use the rackets that TW or whatever says they use, I mean they wear the gear? Federer isn't wearing modified Nike gear that's made to look like Nike but is actually Adidas... Why the ****, if he's so good can't he use the new BLX racket they made for him?

And if he has a lifetime contract with Wilson worth that much, don't you honestly think Wilson would sit back and go yeah Rog, use your 15 year old rackets or your 10 year old rackets, we only spent millions on a racket designed for you, so yeah go ahead and not use it.... That's so ********. If he's got a lifetime deal he was obviously talking to Wilson like every ****ing night when they were in the design phases of the 6.1 95 BLX, telling them what he wants and does not want, etc. He probably tested out several prototypes before they finally got one he liked. I mean it doesn't make much sense for them to sink millions into a guy who refuses to use their newest rackets that are pretty much designed specifically for him....

Why do you think Djokivic switched over the Head? They pretty much designed the Speed line for him, based on the Wilson that he was using.

BreakPoint
05-04-2010, 12:25 AM
Why not? It is quite impossible that he was using the K before the line was introduced publicly. Afterall he does have the privilege as the no.1 endorsed player of Wilson, so it wouldn't be too far fetched that he was using the material a few seasons before it's official introduction.
Why is it "impossible"? Some pros use racquets for their entire careers that are never released to the public. A company can release or not release a racquet any time that they want.

Rexking
05-04-2010, 01:41 AM
Why is it "impossible"? Some pros use racquets for their entire careers that are never released to the public. A company can release or not release a racquet any time that they want.

Sorry I was meant to say POSSIBLE, if you read in the context of the whole post it should be obvious that I think its possible. "so it wouldn't be too far fetched that he was using the material a few seasons before it's official introduction

Rexking
05-04-2010, 01:45 AM
Tennis Player, yes, but don't he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is in it just for the money. I'd be more willing to believe he uses a modified BLX. I mean he's the greatest tennis player on the planet, you don't honestly think he'll use the next racket Wilson puts out, designed almost entirely for him? I mean if he's so good why the **** can't he adjust to a new racket that is designed specifically for him?? Doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe other guys do that but idk, I doubt it's as common as a lot of you guys make it out to be. Obviously the pros aren't using off the wall rackets, they do modifications to them, but I'm willing to bet a high percentage of pros use the rackets that TW or whatever says they use, I mean they wear the gear? Federer isn't wearing modified Nike gear that's made to look like Nike but is actually Adidas... Why the ****, if he's so good can't he use the new BLX racket they made for him?

And if he has a lifetime contract with Wilson worth that much, don't you honestly think Wilson would sit back and go yeah Rog, use your 15 year old rackets or your 10 year old rackets, we only spent millions on a racket designed for you, so yeah go ahead and not use it.... That's so ********. If he's got a lifetime deal he was obviously talking to Wilson like every ****ing night when they were in the design phases of the 6.1 95 BLX, telling them what he wants and does not want, etc. He probably tested out several prototypes before they finally got one he liked. I mean it doesn't make much sense for them to sink millions into a guy who refuses to use their newest rackets that are pretty much designed specifically for him....

Why do you think Djokivic switched over the Head? They pretty much designed the Speed line for him, based on the Wilson that he was using.

Just on the bold part, Federer actually is wearing modified Nike gear that look exactly the same as retail versions, I believe one of the posters has a collection of Federer personal apparels said the material and cut are completely different to retail. Just to want clarify that but correct me if im wrong.

marosmith
05-04-2010, 06:13 PM
Tennis Player, yes, but don't he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is in it just for the money. I'd be more willing to believe he uses a modified BLX. I mean he's the greatest tennis player on the planet, you don't honestly think he'll use the next racket Wilson puts out, designed almost entirely for him? I mean if he's so good why the **** can't he adjust to a new racket that is designed specifically for him?? Doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe other guys do that but idk, I doubt it's as common as a lot of you guys make it out to be. Obviously the pros aren't using off the wall rackets, they do modifications to them, but I'm willing to bet a high percentage of pros use the rackets that TW or whatever says they use, I mean they wear the gear? Federer isn't wearing modified Nike gear that's made to look like Nike but is actually Adidas... Why the ****, if he's so good can't he use the new BLX racket they made for him?

And if he has a lifetime contract with Wilson worth that much, don't you honestly think Wilson would sit back and go yeah Rog, use your 15 year old rackets or your 10 year old rackets, we only spent millions on a racket designed for you, so yeah go ahead and not use it.... That's so ********. If he's got a lifetime deal he was obviously talking to Wilson like every ****ing night when they were in the design phases of the 6.1 95 BLX, telling them what he wants and does not want, etc. He probably tested out several prototypes before they finally got one he liked. I mean it doesn't make much sense for them to sink millions into a guy who refuses to use their newest rackets that are pretty much designed specifically for him....

Why do you think Djokivic switched over the Head? They pretty much designed the Speed line for him, based on the Wilson that he was using.

you are wrong...

nevergiveup
08-21-2010, 12:14 PM
August 20, 2010, Cincinnati Masters:

Q. You talk about a racquet technology
earlier in the week. I play with BLX Roger
Federer racquet. How big the difference
between the racquet we got and you got?
ROGER FEDERER: Very similar. I asked
them to do the same one, because in the
beginning there was some changes, some
differences...


Q. I thought you had a much heavier
racquet.
ROGER FEDERER: I mean, I adjust the
weighting just a little bit so all the racquets are
identical on the weight. I don't think they're far off
from what they selling in the shop, yeah. Because
I wanted the fan to be able to play with basically
the same racquet. I didn't like it that maybe in the
past, years and years ago, that it wasn't exactly the
same

Povl Carstensen
08-21-2010, 02:07 PM
August 20, 2010, Cincinnati Masters:

Q. You talk about a racquet technology
earlier in the week. I play with BLX Roger
Federer racquet. How big the difference
between the racquet we got and you got?
ROGER FEDERER: Very similar. I asked
them to do the same one, because in the
beginning there was some changes, some
differences...


Q. I thought you had a much heavier
racquet.
ROGER FEDERER: I mean, I adjust the
weighting just a little bit so all the racquets are
identical on the weight. I don't think they're far off
from what they selling in the shop, yeah. Because
I wanted the fan to be able to play with basically
the same racquet. I didn't like it that maybe in the
past, years and years ago, that it wasn't exactly the
same

I think he's talking about the K, but thats just my belief...

BreakPoint
08-21-2010, 04:59 PM
I think he's talking about the K, but thats just my belief...
That's why Federer answered - "very similar" - instead of answering "exactly the same". The BLX 90 is indeed "very similar" to the K90, but not exactly the same.

2Hare
08-21-2010, 08:46 PM
Wow this is like debating evolution with religious fanatics (here being the K90 conspiracy supporters).

No matter how much evidence you provide to these fanatics, logics, words straight from Federer's mouth or even playtests from other players, the only way you can convince these people is put them on a court with Federer, watch him play a perfect game, then hand them the racquet straight from Federer while it's still hot! come on this is getting ridiculous!

Obviously to these fanatics whatever Federer uses is closer to whatever racquet they like. Because it twist them inside out if they know Federer is not using the same racquet they use. How could Federer have forsaken them! It doesn't make any sense!

Is it really that hard to believe that a player can switch from K90 and BLX90 and still play well? personally I think 1HBH works better with a BLX90 because of its flex around the hoop, it just feels better to hit a 1HBH with BLX90. Federer seems to be much more confident with his BH after he switches to BLX90 compare to his error proned backhand when he was with K90. So it makes sense to me that he switched.

film1
08-21-2010, 08:54 PM
I do not think he uses the k90 but a lot of great players in the top 1000 sure do.

sixone90
08-21-2010, 09:13 PM
It's nice when Roger talks about his racquets as it's not something he does very often

BreakPoint
08-21-2010, 11:44 PM
Federer seems to be much more confident with his BH after he switches to BLX90 compare to his error proned backhand when he was with K90. So it makes sense to me that he switched.
"Error prone backhand with the K90"? Really? Is that why Federer won 15 Grand Slams using the K90?

His backhand this year (after switching to the BLX90 paintjob) is that same as it ever was (with the K90 under that various Tour 90 paintjobs). The only time his backhand may have been better was when he was using the PS 6.0 85 (prior to 2002).

cy1126dragonamul
08-22-2010, 01:09 AM
nate ferguson of Priority 1 said that federer's racket is the same mode as the retail version.
no one knows for sure if federer's racket is ncode, karophite black, kevlar & graphite etc........
I'm pretty sure he's using the old prostaff technology painted in BLX paintjob.
and is it that important to know what material is under his paint job????
it's graphite!!! that's all you need to know

BreakPoint
08-22-2010, 08:39 AM
nate ferguson of Priority 1 said that federer's racket is the same mode as the retail version.
no one knows for sure if federer's racket is ncode, karophite black, kevlar & graphite etc........
I'm pretty sure he's using the old prostaff technology painted in BLX paintjob.
and is it that important to know what material is under his paint job????
it's graphite!!! that's all you need to know
Nate Ferguson didn't just say that Federer's K90 is the same mold as the retail version, he said that IT IS the same racquet as the retail version (with some lead added under the bumper guard).

BTW, there's no such thing as "Karophite Black". That's just a marketing name that Wilson made up at the last minute for graphite to make plain old graphite sound like new technology and sexier.

LPShanet
08-22-2010, 01:09 PM
Tennis Player, yes, but don't he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is in it just for the money. I'd be more willing to believe he uses a modified BLX. I mean he's the greatest tennis player on the planet, you don't honestly think he'll use the next racket Wilson puts out, designed almost entirely for him? I mean if he's so good why the **** can't he adjust to a new racket that is designed specifically for him?? Doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe other guys do that but idk, I doubt it's as common as a lot of you guys make it out to be. Obviously the pros aren't using off the wall rackets, they do modifications to them, but I'm willing to bet a high percentage of pros use the rackets that TW or whatever says they use, I mean they wear the gear? Federer isn't wearing modified Nike gear that's made to look like Nike but is actually Adidas... Why the ****, if he's so good can't he use the new BLX racket they made for him?

And if he has a lifetime contract with Wilson worth that much, don't you honestly think Wilson would sit back and go yeah Rog, use your 15 year old rackets or your 10 year old rackets, we only spent millions on a racket designed for you, so yeah go ahead and not use it.... That's so ********. If he's got a lifetime deal he was obviously talking to Wilson like every ****ing night when they were in the design phases of the 6.1 95 BLX, telling them what he wants and does not want, etc. He probably tested out several prototypes before they finally got one he liked. I mean it doesn't make much sense for them to sink millions into a guy who refuses to use their newest rackets that are pretty much designed specifically for him....

Why do you think Djokivic switched over the Head? They pretty much designed the Speed line for him, based on the Wilson that he was using.

You may not be that familiar with how the racquet business works, but you're making a few very dangerous (and incorrect) assumptions here. The first is that just because someone is a great player and theoretically COULD switch racquets without too much harm, that they would. This doesn't just apply to Federer..it's just a fact that almost all of the pros on the tour switch racquets very rarely, and avoid doing it as much as possible. So your argument about him being "good enough" to pull off a switch just so he could play with the current retail cosmetics is pretty irrelevant. He (and others) CHOOSE not not. Further, the BLX wasn't designed "just for him" as you state twice. In fact, Wilson redesigned the specs on the K (which was the closest thing they sold recently to his spec) in order to make the BLX more friendly for recreational players picking up the stick, by taking some of the weight out of the head. It had nothing to do with Fed, and his specs didn't change proportionately along with it. The BLX was not custom made for him. Period.

As for betting that a large percentage of pros are using the racquets that their cosmetics imply, I won't challenge this outright, since you didn't state a percentage or hazard a guess as to how many. All I can say is that more top 20 pros use paintjobs than don't. So the argument against them would seem dead in the water, especially if you've spent any time listening to those people on the boards who string for the pros.

Obviously, the fact that they wear essentially current stock clothing is a ridiculous way to prove that they therefore use current stock racquets. You don't hit the ball with your shorts (at least high level players don't...I can't speak to those at your local club). Pros have used paintjobbed racquets for decades, and it is a well established practice at the pro level. This is why Head and Wilson have signed so many players without actually paying them; because they offer free pro room services that meet the players rigid demands about their frames. Further, the adidas/Nike comment is pointless, since no one is saying that Fed uses another BRAND of racquet, just that he's using a different Wilson than his paintjob would lead you to believe. And yes, in some cases, the pros do get special makeup clothing (although it's somewhat more rare), as you can see in the use of shoes with custom/special tongues or soles, altered length shirts and shorts, etc.

A more intelligent argument would be, "why on earth would Wilson care what Federer (or any other pro) uses under the paint, as long as he's totally happy with it, and as long as it's indistinguishable to the consumer from the frame they are selling in stores???" If they want him to have a long term contract, they would want him to have a racquet that is happy with, that he wants to use, and not keep switching from (just like pretty much every other pro), and they would want the consumer to think that he's using whatever they're selling. And that is exactly what they currently have. Anything else is irrelevant to either party's cause. In fact, it helps the company if a player is not frequently switching racquets, as he's less likely to become unhappy with his current situation. And no, there's no reason to believe that he was spending many hours testing prototypes. Why would he if he was fine with his racquet? Pros don't do a lot of random playtesting, unless they're looking for a specific change...and again that's not very frequent. So yes, it makes plenty of sense for Wilson to sink millions into a guy who doesn't use (*"refuses" is the wrong word, since it's not like Wilson is actively asking him to switch) their newest rackets because he already has one that is designed for him, and they gain nothing from having him switch. As is, he's one of the greatest players in history, and that is reason enough to sign him and do whatever the heck he wants.

As for your last contention of support from the idea that Djokovic switched over to Head to use the Speed line which was custom designed for him, it has more holes in it than the cheese of Federer's home country. First of all, the Speed frames were designed and put in the production pipeline before Djokovic even signed with the company. He switched for money, not a new racquet. In fact, the racquet switch did nothing but cause problems for him. Look at the timeline, and you'll see it was impossible for it to have happened as you say. The design of the Speeds had NOTHING to do with Djokovic. Not only did they not design the Speed line for Djokovic, but he's never ever even used one in competition. Take a look at the head shape of his Head racquet and you'll see that it doesn't even come from the same mold as the Speed. It comes from a Radical mold, which makes plenty of sense if you look at his racquet history. These things aren't hard to determine...just search some photos from any of the major photo agencies (you can start with Getty if you don't know where to look), and you'll see that he's not using the egg-shaped Speed mold at all...he's using the a more symmetrically oval Radical shape. After all, Head has one of the most comprehensive pro room programs in the world, so why would the company's top endorser not use it? That's what it's there for. And it's the main reason even lower ranked pros sign with the company.

Time to do some homework before ranting.

Povl Carstensen
08-22-2010, 01:33 PM
Nice post, LPShanet.

pmerk34
08-22-2010, 01:54 PM
You may not be that familiar with how the racquet business works, but you're making a few very dangerous (and incorrect) assumptions here. The first is that just because someone is a great player and theoretically COULD switch racquets without too much harm, that they would. This doesn't just apply to Federer..it's just a fact that almost all of the pros on the tour switch racquets very rarely, and avoid doing it as much as possible. So your argument about him being "good enough" to pull off a switch just so he could play with the current retail cosmetics is pretty irrelevant. He (and others) CHOOSE not not. Further, the BLX wasn't designed "just for him" as you state twice. In fact, Wilson redesigned the specs on the K (which was the closest thing they sold recently to his spec) in order to make the BLX more friendly for recreational players picking up the stick, by taking some of the weight out of the head. It had nothing to do with Fed, and his specs didn't change proportionately along with it. The BLX was not custom made for him. Period.

As for betting that a large percentage of pros are using the racquets that their cosmetics imply, I won't challenge this outright, since you didn't state a percentage or hazard a guess as to how many. All I can say is that more top 20 pros use paintjobs than don't. So the argument against them would seem dead in the water, especially if you've spent any time listening to those people on the boards who string for the pros.

Obviously, the fact that they wear essentially current stock clothing is a ridiculous way to prove that they therefore use current stock racquets. You don't hit the ball with your shorts (at least high level players don't...I can't speak to those at your local club). Pros have used paintjobbed racquets for decades, and it is a well established practice at the pro level. This is why Head and Wilson have signed so many players without actually paying them; because they offer free pro room services that meet the players rigid demands about their frames. Further, the adidas/Nike comment is pointless, since no one is saying that Fed uses another BRAND of racquet, just that he's using a different Wilson than his paintjob would lead you to believe. And yes, in some cases, the pros do get special makeup clothing (although it's somewhat more rare), as you can see in the use of shoes with custom/special tongues or soles, altered length shirts and shorts, etc.

A more intelligent argument would be, "why on earth would Wilson care what Federer (or any other pro) uses under the paint, as long as he's totally happy with it, and as long as it's indistinguishable to the consumer from the frame they are selling in stores???" If they want him to have a long term contract, they would want him to have a racquet that is happy with, that he wants to use, and not keep switching from (just like pretty much every other pro), and they would want the consumer to think that he's using whatever they're selling. And that is exactly what they currently have. Anything else is irrelevant to either party's cause. In fact, it helps the company if a player is not frequently switching racquets, as he's less likely to become unhappy with his current situation. And no, there's no reason to believe that he was spending many hours testing prototypes. Why would he if he was fine with his racquet? Pros don't do a lot of random playtesting, unless they're looking for a specific change...and again that's not very frequent. So yes, it makes plenty of sense for Wilson to sink millions into a guy who doesn't use (*"refuses" is the wrong word, since it's not like Wilson is actively asking him to switch) their newest rackets because he already has one that is designed for him, and they gain nothing from having him switch. As is, he's one of the greatest players in history, and that is reason enough to sign him and do whatever the heck he wants.

As for your last contention of support from the idea that Djokovic switched over to Head to use the Speed line which was custom designed for him, it has more holes in it than the cheese of Federer's home country. First of all, the Speed frames were designed and put in the production pipeline before Djokovic even signed with the company. He switched for money, not a new racquet. In fact, the racquet switch did nothing but cause problems for him. Look at the timeline, and you'll see it was impossible for it to have happened as you say. The design of the Speeds had NOTHING to do with Djokovic. Not only did they not design the Speed line for Djokovic, but he's never ever even used one in competition. Take a look at the head shape of his Head racquet and you'll see that it doesn't even come from the same mold as the Speed. It comes from a Radical mold, which makes plenty of sense if you look at his racquet history. These things aren't hard to determine...just search some photos from any of the major photo agencies (you can start with Getty if you don't know where to look), and you'll see that he's not using the egg-shaped Speed mold at all...he's using the a more symmetrically oval Radical shape. After all, Head has one of the most comprehensive pro room programs in the world, so why would the company's top endorser not use it? That's what it's there for. And it's the main reason even lower ranked pros sign with the company.

Time to do some homework before ranting.

Your post is probably 100% accurate and if it is I hope I don't see you and any of your followers claiming you need a 17 year old Head PT 630 to play your best.

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-22-2010, 02:24 PM
Nate Ferguson didn't just say that Federer's K90 is the same mold as the retail version, he said that IT IS the same racquet as the retail version (with some lead added under the bumper guard).

BTW, there's no such thing as "Karophite Black". That's just a marketing name that Wilson made up at the last minute for graphite to make plain old graphite sound like new technology and sexier.


More madness? Just when did nate ferguson say this? In a youtube video? LOL. Do you think wilson told nateF and ronYU that we are now sending you guys the same racquet that's sold in the stores?.. How do these guys KNOW for sure what it is if they NEVER had any wilson reps visit them? Did wilson put a sticker on feds racquets they sent them that said, ''same as retail k90'' LOL.

LPShanet
08-22-2010, 02:48 PM
Your post is probably 100% accurate and if it is I hope I don't see you and any of your followers claiming you need a 17 year old Head PT 630 to play your best.

I have followers??? Whoa, cool! I've always hoped for this day:)

pmerk34
08-22-2010, 03:06 PM
I have followers??? Whoa, cool! I've always hoped for this day:)

With leadership comes responsibility.

BreakPoint
08-22-2010, 06:20 PM
More madness? Just when did nate ferguson say this? In a youtube video? LOL. Do you think wilson told nateF and ronYU that we are now sending you guys the same racquet that's sold in the stores?.. How do these guys KNOW for sure what it is if they NEVER had any wilson reps visit them? Did wilson put a sticker on feds racquets they sent them that said, ''same as retail k90'' LOL.
If you don't know then that's YOUR problem, isn't it? We know you didn't realize it but there's actually a search function on this message board.

Besides, if we had to explain to you everything that you don't know or understand, we'd be here for the rest of our natural lives.

2Hare
08-23-2010, 12:24 PM
"Error prone backhand with the K90"? Really? Is that why Federer won 15 Grand Slams using the K90?

His backhand this year (after switching to the BLX90 paintjob) is that same as it ever was (with the K90 under that various Tour 90 paintjobs). The only time his backhand may have been better was when he was using the PS 6.0 85 (prior to 2002).

most of those titles were not won with K90, but won while using N90, which was proven to be real. So plz don't troll by putting out obviously false info to flame ppl. after he switched to K90 from N90, his backhand started to go down and became the attack target of various players because it was so error proned. and nadal served 90% of his serves to Federer's backhand because of that.

With K90, Federer couldn't even beat Nadal in Wimbledon! I'm not saying it's all K90's fault, but Federer certainly did better when he was still using N90. I've definitely noticed an improvement of his BH this year since Ausie open this year after he switched to BLX though. At first I did not link that to the new racquet, but it makes sense now, just give more support that Federer really switched racquet and you guys need to move on!

LPShanet
08-23-2010, 12:48 PM
most of those titles were not won with K90, but won while using N90, which was proven to be real. So plz don't troll by putting out obviously false info to flame ppl. after he switched to K90 from N90, his backhand started to go down and became the attack target of various players because it was so error proned. and nadal served 90% of his serves to Federer's backhand because of that.

With K90, Federer couldn't even beat Nadal in Wimbledon! I'm not saying it's all K90's fault, but Federer certainly did better when he was still using N90. I've definitely noticed an improvement of his BH this year since Ausie open this year after he switched to BLX though. At first I did not link that to the new racquet, but it makes sense now, just give more support that Federer really switched racquet and you guys need to move on!

Not to be the voice of dissent or anything, but when was there any evidence to suggest that Fed used the actual N90 at any point ever? Maybe I'm unaware of something, but when and by whom was the N90 "proven to be real"? Any information I've ever seen suggested just the opposite, in fact.

And even if you do make the VERY sketchy assumption that he used some form of N90, what makes you believe there was an actual switch to a different frame after they introduced the K90 at retail?

I'm not even going to address the "switch" to BLX...

It's very unusual for any pro, let alone a top player, to switch frames that often, let alone one who's known for liking relatively old-fashioned specs. Or are you just talking about cosmetics and not what's under the paint? As a new user, you may want to use the search function and type in the term "paint job". After the weeks of reading that will produce, get back to us.

2Hare
08-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Just did a count, Federer won 9 titles with N90, 6 with K90, and 1 with BLX. And not to mention Federer's career lows happened when he was using a K90. Coincidence? you decide. I don't know how many of you BLX haters have actually used it for an extended period of time. but I had, and it's a racquet that would really grow on you and make you forget about K90, N90, even PS85 all together.

If I have to do a comparison, just between K90 and BLX90, I would say nothing beats K90 when it comes to forehand, but BLX90 beats it in every other categories. So over all, BLX90 is a better racquet IMHO

2Hare
08-23-2010, 12:54 PM
Not to be the voice of dissent or anything, but when was there any evidence to suggest that Fed used the actual N90 at any point ever? Maybe I'm unaware of something, but when and by whom was the N90 "proven to be real"? Any information I've ever seen suggested just the opposite, in fact.

And even if you do make the VERY sketchy assumption that he used some form of N90, what makes you believe there was an actual switch to a different frame after they introduced the K90 at retail?

I'm not even going to address the "switch" to BLX...

It's very unusual for any pro, let alone a top player, to switch frames that often, let alone one who's known for liking relatively old-fashioned specs. Or are you just talking about cosmetics and not what's under the paint? As a new user, you may want to use the search function and type in the term "paint job". After the weeks of reading that will produce, get back to us.

man this again, you guys need to do more searches before you flame. basic story, a stringer gotten hold of Federer's racquet and did an in depth comparison between the racquet, N90 and PS85. the conclusion is that it's a customized N90.

2Hare
08-23-2010, 01:01 PM
http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/federer_playtest.html

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 01:05 PM
most of those titles were not won with K90, but won while using N90, which was proven to be real. So plz don't troll by putting out obviously false info to flame ppl. after he switched to K90 from N90, his backhand started to go down and became the attack target of various players because it was so error proned. and nadal served 90% of his serves to Federer's backhand because of that.

With K90, Federer couldn't even beat Nadal in Wimbledon! I'm not saying it's all K90's fault, but Federer certainly did better when he was still using N90. I've definitely noticed an improvement of his BH this year since Ausie open this year after he switched to BLX though. At first I did not link that to the new racquet, but it makes sense now, just give more support that Federer really switched racquet and you guys need to move on!
LOL. You have quite an imagination there.

And, no, Federer never used the retail nCode 90. There are about a billion posts on this board that confirm this. Yes, it is a fact. Just check all the pics. Even Wilson admitted that Federer never used the retail nCode 90 when they released the K90 by stating that it was the first time that the public can buy the same racquet that Federer actually uses.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 01:15 PM
Just did a count, Federer won 9 titles with N90, 6 with K90, and 1 with BLX. And not to mention Federer's career lows happened when he was using a K90. Coincidence? you decide. I don't know how many of you BLX haters have actually used it for an extended period of time. but I had, and it's a racquet that would really grow on you and make you forget about K90, N90, even PS85 all together.

If I have to do a comparison, just between K90 and BLX90, I would say nothing beats K90 when it comes to forehand, but BLX90 beats it in every other categories. So over all, BLX90 is a better racquet IMHO
OMG!!! Federer won ALL 16 of this Grand Slams with the SAME RACQUET - the K90. Just ask him. He hasn't switched racquets since 2003, before he won his very first Grand Slam.

When he first "switched" to the retail K90 paintjob in January 2007, he won the Aus Open without dropping a set. He then made the French Open final, won both Wimbledon and the US Open. So, yeah, it must be the switch to the K90 that made him play poorly. :???: His play dropped off in 2008 due to his bout with mono and then later a bad back injury. It had NOTHING to do with his racquet! Get real!

pmerk34
08-23-2010, 01:18 PM
OMG!!! Federer won ALL 16 of this Grand Slams with the SAME RACQUET - the K90. Just ask him. He hasn't switched racquets since 2003, before he won his very first Grand Slam.

When he first "switched" to the retail K90 paintjob in January 2007, he won the Aus Open without dropping a set. He then made the French Open final, won both Wimbledon and the US Open. So, yeah, it must be the switch to the K90 that made him play poorly. :???: His play dropped off in 2008 due to his bout with mono and then later a bad back injury. It had NOTHING to do with his racquet! Get real!

Wrong he used an N90 after he got rid of that antiquated Pro Staff and yes he did hit differently with the n90 than the K90. NO ONE hits exactly the same type of ball with different frames.

vsbabolat
08-23-2010, 01:31 PM
Wrong he used an N90 after he got rid of that antiquated Pro Staff and yes he did hit differently with the n90 than the K90. NO ONE hits exactly the same type of ball with different frames.

No, Federer switched from the Pro Staff 85 to the Pro Staff Tour 90.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/Federer_2003_Munich.jpg
Look at the length of the grip. Later on Federer got custom handles and a custom drill pattern that was incorporated in the retail K90 and BLX90. The closest to his layup for retail was supposed to be the K90.

Povl Carstensen
08-23-2010, 02:14 PM
More madness? Just when did nate ferguson say this? In a youtube video? LOL. Do you think wilson told nateF and ronYU that we are now sending you guys the same racquet that's sold in the stores?.. How do these guys KNOW for sure what it is if they NEVER had any wilson reps visit them? Did wilson put a sticker on feds racquets they sent them that said, ''same as retail k90'' LOL.

You have a weak case Ultra2HolyGrail.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 02:16 PM
Wrong he used an N90 after he got rid of that antiquated Pro Staff and yes he did hit differently with the n90 than the K90. NO ONE hits exactly the same type of ball with different frames.
Um...that's why he didn't use different frames.

After the China PS 6.0 85, he went to a PS 6.0 85 with the HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob (see pic below). Then he went to a PS Tour 90 with the same HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob. Then he went to a PS Tour 90 with the retail PS Tour 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the same PS Tour 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the nCode 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the retail K90 paintjob. And AFAIK, he's still using the K90 but with the retail BLX90 paintjob. Thus, he's been using the K90 since 2003!!! That is a fact.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2uogphl.jpg

jimbo333
08-23-2010, 02:34 PM
Um...that's why he didn't use different frames.

After the China PS 6.0 85, he went to a PS 6.0 85 with the HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob (see pic below). Then he went to a PS Tour 90 with the same HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob. Then he went to a PS Tour 90 with the retail PS Tour 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the same PS Tour 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the nCode 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the retail K90 paintjob. And AFAIK, he's still using the K90 but with the retail BLX90 paintjob. Thus, he's been using the K90 since 2003!!! That is a fact.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2uogphl.jpg

I agree that the above does basically seem to be correct.

What is really odd though, is that the only time Federer has ever used the longer grip in his career was in Spring of 2003 for a couple of months, when he used the retail PSTour90!

I wonder why he did this?

jimbo333
08-23-2010, 02:37 PM
No, Federer switched from the Pro Staff 85 to the Pro Staff Tour 90.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/Federer_2003_Munich.jpg
Look at the length of the grip. Later on Federer got custom handles and a custom drill pattern that was incorporated in the retail K90 and BLX90. The closest to his layup for retail was supposed to be the K90.

Indeed:)

But it is strange that he only used the longer grip when he used the retail PSTour90 (As shown above). When he used the PSTour90 with HPS6.0Tour95 paintjob before, and the custom90(K90) with PSTour90 paintjob afterwards, he used the shorter grip as was the case in the whole of the rest of his career!

LPShanet
08-23-2010, 03:12 PM
man this again, you guys need to do more searches before you flame. basic story, a stringer gotten hold of Federer's racquet and did an in depth comparison between the racquet, N90 and PS85. the conclusion is that it's a customized N90.

No, you need to be more thorough in your research. Greg (the guy you refer to as "a stringer"...but who is actually the USRSA webmaster and magazine editor...who did the article you're referring to, in case you didn't know) did the review well before the K90 was released, and before layup information came to light about it and previous versions of Fed's frame and retail ones. He also did the review based on an N90 that came from Wilson's pro room and not off the shelf, and he did it before there was a retail K90 to compare it to. So at that point, the N90 he got was the closest frame to what Fed was using, but there were still quite a few palpable differences. In fact, here's his quote:

"Although I had noticed the spacing differences between the retail and Federer versions of the nSix-One Tour 90, they really hit home during stringing. The grommet holes for the Federer version do not conflict as much with the side supports on the SP Pro Cord, and there is plenty of space for the tie-off knot for the crosses. I can't explain the lower swing weight of our retail nSix-One Tour 90, as illustrated in this table."

However, with the release of the K90, these differences were no longer visible or measurable, suggesting that it, in fact, was the frame Fed had used all along (since 2003).

As VSBabolat stated above, it has been pretty well established, since the writing of the article you refer to, that the layup Fed uses is closest in all of its properties to what would eventually become the K90 version. The P1 boys have also made various posts on these boards that suggest the same. And as even Greg noted in the article in question, the drill pattern of the N90 was visibly different from the one that Roger used at the time. Meanwhile, the K90's retail drill pattern is a match for the one that Roger has used all along (and continues to). While it's possible to change drill patterns via the pro room, the retail racquet closest to what Fed has used all along is, for many reasons, the K90, and there is no evidence now to suggest that he has ever used anything else since 2003.

If you'd like, you can contact Greg yourself, as he, too, now believes that the K90 is the racquet Fed has used all along. He believed that the N90 was a slightly dumbed down version that would be easier for the average player to use, as is the BLX. So if even the author of the article you're referring to disagrees with you, it leaves just you who believes what you do. The fact that you haven't put together all the available info in a complete fashion suggests that maybe you have some reason for wanting to believe that Fed changes racquets every two years, even though no other pro on the tour does this. That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, though.

N.B. At the risk of getting too technical, I'll try to simplify some of the tech aspects for you. When the article refers to "n-coding", they're talking about the use of silicon dioxide bits that are added to the materials from which the frames are made, in an effort to eliminate the spaces in the material, and thus make it stiffer in spots. The silicon dioxide is not part of the initial graphite/carbon raw materials, but introduced to them to change their properties. While Wilson uses a proprietary jargon term for their racquets, the process is exactly the same as what every other company does when they say they're using "nano" technology or similar. Basically, they're filling up the cracks and airspaces in the graphite with stuff. So Greg's assessment article only tells us that he thinks Wilson's post-2002 frames feel different from the earlier ones, because they have this process done to them, which obviously is true. However, the K-Factor series also used the same process and a version of the same silicon dioxide material. It's a pretty common process these days with many manufacturers, and there would have been no way to differentiate one version of it from another just by feeling the frame during play, especially since the K version hadn't been released yet. So there would have been no way to know that K (which hadn't been released yet) would feel the same or different from N, just that the new frames felt different from the old.

Therefore, all you can learn from that article is that Roger did indeed switch racquets in 2003, which is something we all already agree on. It's easy to buy into the marketing speak and assume that the N's all had one technology while the K's had a completely other one, but really they were both based on the same type of tech. In the end, the outdated article does nothing to help establish that Fed ever used a racquet based on the retail N90, unless you don't have the technical background to understand the info.

pmerk34
08-23-2010, 03:36 PM
Um...that's why he didn't use different frames.

After the China PS 6.0 85, he went to a PS 6.0 85 with the HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob (see pic below). Then he went to a PS Tour 90 with the same HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob. Then he went to a PS Tour 90 with the retail PS Tour 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the same PS Tour 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the nCode 90 paintjob. Then he went to the K90 with the retail K90 paintjob. And AFAIK, he's still using the K90 but with the retail BLX90 paintjob. Thus, he's been using the K90 since 2003!!! That is a fact.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2uogphl.jpg

He did switch frames and you can tell the difference especially on the BH side. he his it better with the N90

LPShanet
08-23-2010, 03:54 PM
He did switch frames and you can tell the difference especially on the BH side. he his it better with the N90

And by N90 you mean K90 ;)

pmerk34
08-23-2010, 03:58 PM
And by N90 you mean K90 ;)

Nope he used the N90 then switched to the K90.

LPShanet
08-23-2010, 04:28 PM
Nope he used the N90 then switched to the K90.

Very funny. Based on what (other than Wilson promotional materials and a strong desire to be right)?

pmerk34
08-23-2010, 04:44 PM
Very funny. Based on what (other than Wilson promotional materials and a strong desire to be right)?

Believe it or not there have been other threads on this subject with a different outcome than your postings

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 05:09 PM
He did switch frames and you can tell the difference especially on the BH side. he his it better with the N90
Ha ha ha...Is this a joke?

So Fish must have switched racquets because he hits his forehand better now than before? Roddick must have switched racquets because his forehand used to be bigger than it is now? Nadal must have switched racquets because he serves better now than before? And Blake must have switched racquets because his ranking has plummeted as of late?

It's all about the racquet and not the player, right?

pmerk34
08-23-2010, 05:43 PM
Ha ha ha...Is this a joke?

So Fish must have switched racquets because he hits his forehand better now than before? Roddick must have switched racquets because his forehand used to be bigger than it is now? Nadal must have switched racquets because he serves better now than before? And Blake must have switched racquets because his ranking has plummeted as of late?

It's all about the racquet and not the player, right?

No, it's not all about any one thing. If the frames pros used didn't matter they wouldn't be so over the top in their demands for equipment and customization.

sixone90
08-23-2010, 05:45 PM
When did Federer start to use Luxilon in the mains? When did he switch to Luxilon in the crosses?

LPShanet
08-23-2010, 06:09 PM
Believe it or not there have been other threads on this subject with a different outcome than your postings

There are also threads that concluded that Maria Sharapova had a sex change, ones that suggest the game of tennis doesn't really exist on a physical level (and that we're just imagining it all), and ones that prove that Stefan Edberg was made entirely of bacon. But choosing to believe a thread despite the very strong factual evidence to the contrary suggests willful disbelief. If you enjoy the sport of disagreeing with whatever is the majority view, or that of the most respected posters on the boards (and the ones with the most direct experience with pros' racquets), I won't bother trying to convince you otherwise, since they clearly haven't. (I'm tempted to ask where you stand on the theory of evolution, but I'm not sure I want to know the answer.) If you choose to believe that Roger Federer, unlike every other pro in the top 100, switches racquets like clockwork every two years, and that the miraculous new technologies in those frames just happen to be discovered by genius racquet scientists in the exact same fiscal quarter every 24 months, then carry on. No sweat.

My posts are intended for those who want to read them and are interested in the information I can provide (and there may be no one who is), not for arguing with or converting disbelievers.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 06:14 PM
I agree that the above does basically seem to be correct.

What is really odd though, is that the only time Federer has ever used the longer grip in his career was in Spring of 2003 for a couple of months, when he used the retail PSTour90!

I wonder why he did this?
I'm pretty sure what happened is this:

In mid-2002, he switched to a Tour 90 mold with the lay-up of what essentially became the K90 but without the SiO2 nano particles infused in the graphite (which the K90 does have). It was just braided graphite and Kevlar just like the PS 6.0 85 he had been using for many years until this switch. Like the K90, this lay-up did not contain HyperCarbon. He's talked about how he credits his switch to a 90 sq. in. frame right before the 2002 Hamburg Masters as helping him win his first Masters tournament. This racquet had the red HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob on it. Then later in early 2003, he tested several prototypes when Wilson was developing the nCode 90. One of the racquets that he tried was the retail PS Tour 90 which contained HyperCarbon but was originally designed for Sampras (but then Sampras retired). He only used it very briefly and decided he didn't like it. So Wilson took the 90 sq. in. racquet that he had been using and infused it with the SiO2 nano molecules but left out the HyperCarbon. This racquet evolved into the K90, which Federer first used with a black PS Tour 90 paintjob on it in mid-2003. He won his first Slam with it (2003 Wimbledon). This is the same racquet that Federer has been using ever since then, just with various paintjobs on it. The retail nCode 90 got both HyperCarbon and SiO2 nano molecules, but Federer never used it on tour.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 06:17 PM
man this again, you guys need to do more searches before you flame. basic story, a stringer gotten hold of Federer's racquet and did an in depth comparison between the racquet, N90 and PS85. the conclusion is that it's a customized N90.

http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/federer_playtest.html

Yes, I know. I was one of the members here that talked Greg Raven into conducting that playtest with Federer's nCode 90 paintjob in the first place.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 06:21 PM
No, it's not all about any one thing. If the frames pros used didn't matter they wouldn't be so over the top in their demands for equipment and customization.
Of course the pros frames matter, and what matters to them most is that their frames remain the same for as long as possible, as the last thing they want to do is to change their frames in the middle of their career, especially a very successful one. It's not like Wilson was offering Federer a ton of money to switch racquets. He already had a lifetime contract with Wilson that guaranteed him $2 million a year for life. So it's not the same as Head offering Djokovic a ton of money to leave Wilson and sign with Head and use a Head racquet.

Netspirit
08-23-2010, 06:55 PM
Is there any indication that Federer is NOT using BLX?

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 07:04 PM
^ That's what's funny. If the BLX came out before the k90 everybody would of said the blx is his real frame. The k90 beat it to the punch.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 07:20 PM
Is there any indication that Federer is NOT using BLX?
Why would Federer switch to a racquet that is essentially the same as the K90 but with a lower swingweight and less crisp feel? He already knows what the perfect swingweight is for him, and that would be the same one he's been swinging for many years.

Also, neither Wilson nor Federer have ever stated that the BLX90 that he uses is the same one that's sold in the stores, unlike with the K90.

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 07:22 PM
I'm pretty sure what happened is this:

Based on what? Your fantasy that the k90 is feds racquet that you bought even though it was too heavy for you like the ps85?

The retail nCode 90 got both HyperCarbon and SiO2 nano molecules, but Federer never used it on tour.


Then why did people who playtested them both claim feds racquet played like the ncode90?
How do you know the ncode90 is not actually the materials used in federers racquet but wilson wanted to release a longer handle because they felt most players used two handed backhands? Because of the ps85 and federer wanted a 90in just like the 85 with no hypercarbon? You can read minds now too? How do you know that he didn't want more power? And everybody says the k90 feels nothing like a 90in ps85. :oops:

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 07:24 PM
Also, neither Wilson nor Federer have ever stated that the BLX90 that he uses is the same one that's sold in the stores, unlike with the K90.


BS. Try youtube and BLX. Federer is on there talking about how great BLX is. :oops:

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 07:25 PM
^ That's what's funny. If the BLX came out before the k90 everybody would of said the blx is his real frame. The k90 beat it to the punch.
The PS 6.0 85 did come out before the K90 and everybody says that the PS 6.0 85 was his real frame.

Federer would be using the same racquet regardless of what marketing name came out first, e.g., nCode 90, K90, BLX90, The Fed 90, The Real Fed Tour 90, the XXX Tour 90, the Youtek Tour 90, the Super Duper Tour 90, the Plutonium Tour 90, the Shotmaker Tour 90, the 200G Tour 90, the Aero Pro Tour 90, the Radical Tour 90, the PC 600 Tour 90, the zSix-One Tour 90, etc., etc.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 07:28 PM
BS. Try youtube and BLX. Federer is on there talking about how great BLX is.
And that somehow means that he uses the same BLX90 as the one sold in the stores???? :confused: :roll:

I can talk all day long about what a great car the BMW M3 is, but that doesn't mean I drive one myself. :oops:

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 07:32 PM
And that somehow means that he uses the same BLX90 as the one sold in the stores???? :confused: :roll:

No, but what exactly is the difference if federer is talking about blx instead of kfactor? NONE.

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 07:34 PM
The PS 6.0 85 did come out before the K90 and everybody says that the PS 6.0 85 was his real frame.

Federer would be using the same racquet regardless of what marketing name came out first, e.g., nCode 90, K90, BLX90, The Fed 90, The Real Fed Tour 90, the XXX Tour 90, the Youtek Tour 90, the Super Duper Tour 90, the Plutonium Tour 90, the Shotmaker Tour 90, the 200G Tour 90, the Aero Pro Tour 90, the Radical Tour 90, the PC 600 Tour 90, the zSix-One Tour 90, etc., etc.


You must be on that thorazine i recommended. :)

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 07:39 PM
Based on what? Your fantasy that the k90 is feds racquet that you bought even though it was too heavy for you like the ps85?
Based on all of my experience and information and the fact that I have more than one brain cell in my head, unlike you.


Then why did people who playtested them both claim feds racquet played like the ncode90?
Compared to a Pure Drive, the K90 does play very much like a nCode 90. None of the playtesters used the nCode as their regular racquet for years. Oh, and they all said that Federer's racquet felt different from the retail version, but they just couldn't describe it. That's because they don't have a point of reference.


How do you know the ncode90 is not actually the materials used in federers racquet but wilson wanted to release a longer handle because they felt most players used two handed backhands? Because of the ps85 and federer wanted a 90in just like the 85 with no hypercarbon?
Have you ever heard Federer mention the word "HyperCarbon"? Ever??

Why would Wilson put HyperCarbon in two generations of the Tour 90 and then all of a sudden take it out and then state that this K90 without the HyperCarbon was the racquet that Federer has been using all along?


You can read minds now too? How do you know that he didn't want more power? And everybody says the k90 feels nothing like a 90in ps85.
Yes, because everyone has actually played with a 90 sq. in. PS 6.0 85? In fact, no one has because it doesn't exist! How can anyone say it doesn't play like something that doesn't even exist and that no one has ever hit with?

The reason why the K90 does not have the same exact feel as the PS 6.0 85 is mostly because the K90 is nCoded with SiO2 nano molecules. That changes the feel slightly. It also feels different because it has a different throat and uses a different mold and has a bigger head and a different string pattern! :???:

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 07:40 PM
No, but what exactly is the difference if federer is talking about blx instead of kfactor? NONE.
Um...because Wilson said the K90 is the same one sold in the stores but not the BLX????

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 07:46 PM
Um...because Wilson said the K90 is the same one sold in the stores but not the BLX????


Uhh, just what exactly do you think they are saying in the BLX videos? That he DOESNT play with BLX? :roll:

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 07:57 PM
Have you ever heard Federer mention the word "HyperCarbon"? Ever??

Have you EVER heard him mention braided graphite and kevlar? :oops: I guess his racquet has none since he NEVER mentioned it.

Why would Wilson put HyperCarbon in two generations of the Tour 90 and then all of a sudden take it out and then state that this K90 without the HyperCarbon was the racquet that Federer has been using all along?

Well, i'm not convinced the K90 has no hypercarbon. Many feel the k90 is more powerful than the tour and ncode90. Which makes zero sense if the k90 does not contain hypercarbon. Maybe the tour and ncode90 are the true braided graphite-kevlar frames, and the k90 is 100% material like the k88.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 08:10 PM
Uhh, just what exactly do you think they are saying in the BLX videos? That he DOESNT play with BLX? :roll:
Yes, they can say Federer plays with the "BLX90" but it's not the same BLX90 as the one sold in the stores. That's why they CAN'T say that. Don't you know there are dozens of racquets that Wilson has code-named the "BLX90", only one of which is sold in the stores? Federer uses the "K90" which Wilson also calls the "BLX90", since they are just marketing names. Federer's racquet is whatever Wilson wants to call it, but they sold it in retail stores with the marketing name "K90".

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 08:13 PM
Well, i'm not convinced the K90 has no hypercarbon. Many feel the k90 is more powerful than the tour and ncode90. Which makes zero sense if the k90 does not contain hypercarbon. Maybe the tour and ncode90 are the true braided graphite-kevlar frames, and the k90 is 100% material like the k88.
And you've never told us who actually said this. Probably just more posers like you who have never even hit with the K90 before.

Oh, and you do know that higher swingweight = more power and plow through, right? :???:

And who cares if you're not convinced or not about anything? :confused:

TensProfes
08-23-2010, 08:46 PM
Have you EVER heard him mention braided graphite and kevlar? :oops: I guess his racquet has none since he NEVER mentioned it.



Well, i'm not convinced the K90 has no hypercarbon. Many feel the k90 is more powerful than the tour and ncode90. Which makes zero sense if the k90 does not contain hypercarbon. Maybe the tour and ncode90 are the true braided graphite-kevlar frames, and the k90 is 100% material like the k88.

I hope I don't get caught in the middle of you two guys and your disagreement, since some of this seems to go beyond actual information and into personal territory. But regardless of what you think of each other, I thought I should point out that the conversation is now sounding a little bit like arguing about the relative merits of unicorns, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny. Hypercarbon, Ncode, K-Factor and all the other "materials" are just different layups of graphite with slightly different feels. None of those materials is necessarily more powerful, advanced, flexible, magical or different from any others..they're just ways of manipulating the layups of the same old graphite in various ways that increase the material density over "old-fashioned" graphite. So to attribute more power to one specific version of that graphite is an error from a proper engineering viewpoint. Each of those materials can be manipulated in production to produce the most or least powerful frame of the lot just as easily as the next. If one of those frames is more powerful, it has to do with actual physics, such as weight, stiffness, balance, density, etc...not which marketing-name they chose for its magic material.

What is known from a proper scientific viewpoint is that the specs of Fed's actual racquets haven't changed in any measurable way since 2003. However, the specs of the various frames he has endorsed (and that his racquet's cosmetics matched) have changed with each generation. So logically, it would seem that he has kept using the same one of those frames all along, and not switched at all, since that is what pros do anyway. So the question is probably not when he switched since 2003, as there is absolutely no scientific or factual information to suggest he has. The only real valid question is which of those frames is most similar to the one he has been using all along. (Until there is factual evidence to suggest a switch since 2003, all of those theories are the equivalent of alien autopsies, 9/11 being an inside job, and various ramblings about grassy knolls.)

And from a purely observational, physical and analytical point of view, the retail frame which his actual specs match most closely is the K90. It shares the weight, balance and material distribution properties of Fed's frame (which the BLX90 does not), which also suggests...although it does not prove...that it uses the most similar materials of the three to Fed's frame. The K90 also shares the drill pattern and grommet spec of Fed's frame (unlike the N90) and it is the frame that best matches the statements of those people at the USRSA, P1 and other unbiased sources about various other qualities of Fed's frame. Can we prove that he didn't take an N90 and customize it and re-drill it to exactly match what the K90 would eventually have at retail? No. Can we prove or conclude with total certainty yet that he hasn't switched to the BLX? Not outright. But to believe he has made any switches or used anything other than something very close to the K90 requires a leap of faith and the suggestion of bizarre events that don't make much sense. Even a cursory knowledge of how pro tennis players handle their equipment makes either of those options HIGHLY UNLIKELY. Further, the specs of the new BLX 90 match Fed's specs less closely than the K90 did, so not only is it unlikely, unusual and downright bizarre that he would switch to something new, but it's even more so when you consider that he'd then have to customize the new frame much more than the old just to get back to his desired spec, which he's still using.

So in the absence of evidence to the contrary, of which there's none that I've ever seen (but I'm happy to be shown some), the logical conclusion is that he's been using the same frame since 2003, and that it's most similar to the K90 of all the recent versions, though not totally unlike the other two. Is that incontrovertible? No. But it would seem to me that it's on those theorists of the less likely eventualities to prove that wrong, not the other way around.

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 10:12 PM
Yes, they can say Federer plays with the "BLX90" but it's not the same BLX90 as the one sold in the stores.


So what makes you think the k90 is any different? Because wilson said so? No, and face it, it's because it 'looked' the same. So everybody thought it was the 'exact' frame. To believe it's the exact frame that comes off the same line as federers racquet in china is hard to believe.


And you've never told us who actually said this. Probably just more posers like you who have never even hit with the K90 before.

TW testers claim it's more powerful. And so do many people.. Same with the k95 vs N95. And who's the poser? You buy racquets that are too heavy for you.


And who cares if you're not convinced or not about anything?

I hope no one cares. Just like i sure hope no one cares that you think the k90 is 'exactly'
the same racquet that fed uses. :oops:

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-23-2010, 10:15 PM
So in the absence of evidence to the contrary, of which there's none that I've ever seen (but I'm happy to be shown some), the logical conclusion is that he's been using the same frame since 2003, and that it's most similar to the K90 of all the recent versions, though not totally unlike the other two. Is that incontrovertible? No. But it would seem to me that it's on those theorists of the less likely eventualities to prove that wrong, not the other way around.


No one doubts that fed has played with the same racquet since 2003. It's the belief of some that tout as if it's a absolute fact that feds racquets are the exact same as the k90.

Netspirit
08-23-2010, 11:09 PM
Some food for thought. Here is what Federer said in Cincy:

Q. You talk about a racquet technology earlier in the week. I play with BLX Roger Federer racquet. How big the difference between the racquet we got and you got?
ROGER FEDERER: Very similar. I asked them to do the same one, because in the beginning there was some changes, some differences...

Q. I thought you had a much heavier racquet.
ROGER FEDERER: I mean, I adjust the weighting just a little bit so all the racquets are identical on the weight. I don't think they're far off from what they selling in the shop, yeah. Because I wanted the fan to be able to play with basically the same racquet. I didn't like it that maybe in the past, years and years ago, that it wasn't exactly the same.

BreakPoint
08-23-2010, 11:31 PM
So what makes you think the k90 is any different? Because wilson said so? No, and face it, it's because it 'looked' the same. So everybody thought it was the 'exact' frame. To believe it's the exact frame that comes off the same line as federers racquet in china is hard to believe.
Huh? All his racquets looked the same. And why is it hard to believe that Federer's racquets come from the same factory in China? Do you seriously think Wilson built a whole new factory in the US just to make a few racquets for Federer? Get real.


TW testers claim it's more powerful. And so do many people.. Same with the k95 vs N95. And who's the poser? You buy racquets that are too heavy for you.

Yeah, and TW (Chris) also said this about the K90: :oops:

Finding the KSix-One Tour 90 to be the best Tour 90 yet was Chris. "Of all the Tour 90s so far, this latest version reminded me of the ProStaff Original 6.0 85 the most. I could feel a lot more ProStaff heritage in the response and feel of this racquet. The KSix-One Tour 90 felt more maneuverable compared to the other Tour 90s and I felt like I had better control of the tip of the racquet. For some reason, previous Tour 90s always felt cumbersome compared to the ProStaff Original 85, but with this version Wilson seems to have corrected the maneuverability issue.

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/REVIEWS/K61T90/K61T90Review.html

Oh, and even a badminton racquet is too heavy for you, which is why you play tennis with a ping pong paddle and still need to use two hands to swing it as you're too weak to swing even a ping pong paddle with only one hand. :oops: LOL


I hope no one cares. Just like i sure hope no one cares that you think the k90 is 'exactly'
the same racquet that fed uses.
Yet you keep trying to prove me wrong so it's obvious to everyone that YOU care. :oops:

2Hare
08-24-2010, 12:10 AM
If Federer is using any other popular lines of racquets I would be more inclined to believe the PJ theory. But we are talking about a line of racquet that is designed just for Federer, with no noticeable use of advance technology beside the minor changes in materials, such as increase in stiffness with K-factor and decrease in production cost and shockwaves with BLX.

Sure the K90 and BLX90 don't feel the same, but are they really different enough that you think that there's no way Federer, who spends hours on courts almost everyday and probably has the best touches around, can adapt too it? Especially when he can customized them to feel almost the same with changes in string tensions and weights? Have you guys even hit with BLX90 for more than a month? Because I'm telling you that it's a better racquet after spending months with it after switching from K90.

And why did Federer raise he racquet tension this year to 55/52 while he was stringing them at low 50 and high 40s when he was using K90? If you made the switch from K90 to BLX90 you'll probably understand.

BreakPoint
08-24-2010, 12:38 AM
If Federer is using any other popular lines of racquets I would be more inclined to believe the PJ theory. But we are talking about a line of racquet that is designed just for Federer, with no noticeable use of advance technology beside the minor changes in materials, such as increase in stiffness with K-factor and decrease in production cost and shockwaves with BLX.

Sure the K90 and BLX90 don't feel the same, but are they really different enough that you think that there's no way Federer, who spends hours on courts almost everyday and probably has the best touches around, can adapt too it? Especially when he can customized them to feel almost the same with changes in string tensions and weights? Have you guys even hit with BLX90 for more than a month? Because I'm telling you that it's a better racquet after spending months with it after switching from K90.

And why did Federer raise he racquet tension this year to 55/52 while he was stringing them at low 50 and high 40s when he was using K90? If you made the switch from K90 to BLX90 you'll probably understand.
But why would he want to and why should he?

Federer changes his string tensions all the time depending on the surface and conditions. And where did you see that he's stringing at 55/52? If that's true, it was most likely to get some more control on his forehand, which he seems to have lost control of in the past year or two. I can see him stringing tighter at somewhere like Cincy since the weather is so hot and the court is so fast.

Silky Sampras
08-24-2010, 12:41 AM
Whatever the exact specifications of Federer's racquet, be they in materials, stringing pattern, grips, etc, you can be sure that none of us would be able to play with his racquet.

It is interesting to speculate on what exactly he uses, and whether or not he makes minor adjustments to it, but I think we can safely say that these changes wouldn't affect us as tennis players.

He did switch from an 85 to a 90 head size though...I think we can be certain of that!:)

0d1n
08-24-2010, 01:01 AM
I'm pretty sure what happened is this:

In mid-2002, he switched to a Tour 90 mold with the lay-up of what essentially became the K90 but without the SiO2 nano particles infused in the graphite (which the K90 does have). It was just braided graphite and Kevlar just like the PS 6.0 85 he had been using for many years until this switch. Like the K90, this lay-up did not contain HyperCarbon. He's talked about how he credits his switch to a 90 sq. in. frame right before the 2002 Hamburg Masters as helping him win his first Masters tournament. This racquet had the red HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob on it. Then later in early 2003, he tested several prototypes when Wilson was developing the nCode 90. One of the racquets that he tried was the retail PS Tour 90 which contained HyperCarbon but was originally designed for Sampras (but then Sampras retired). He only used it very briefly and decided he didn't like it. So Wilson took the 90 sq. in. racquet that he had been using and infused it with the SiO2 nano molecules but left out the HyperCarbon. This racquet evolved into the K90, which Federer first used with a black PS Tour 90 paintjob on it in mid-2003. He won his first Slam with it (2003 Wimbledon). This is the same racquet that Federer has been using ever since then, just with various paintjobs on it. The retail nCode 90 got both HyperCarbon and SiO2 nano molecules, but Federer never used it on tour.

Cool story. Sounds very technical. All that is missing is "once upon a time...".

I hope I don't get caught in the middle of you two guys and your disagreement, since some of this seems to go beyond actual information and into personal territory. But regardless of what you think of each other, I thought I should point out that the conversation is now sounding a little bit like arguing about the relative merits of unicorns, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny. Hypercarbon, Ncode, K-Factor and all the other "materials" are just different layups of graphite with slightly different feels. None of those materials is necessarily more powerful, advanced, flexible, magical or different from any others..they're just ways of manipulating the layups of the same old graphite in various ways that increase the material density over "old-fashioned" graphite. So to attribute more power to one specific version of that graphite is an error from a proper engineering viewpoint. Each of those materials can be manipulated in production to produce the most or least powerful frame of the lot just as easily as the next. If one of those frames is more powerful, it has to do with actual physics, such as weight, stiffness, balance, density, etc...not which marketing-name they chose for its magic material.

What is known from a proper scientific viewpoint is that the specs of Fed's actual racquets haven't changed in any measurable way since 2003. However, the specs of the various frames he has endorsed (and that his racquet's cosmetics matched) have changed with each generation. So logically, it would seem that he has kept using the same one of those frames all along, and not switched at all, since that is what pros do anyway. So the question is probably not when he switched since 2003, as there is absolutely no scientific or factual information to suggest he has. The only real valid question is which of those frames is most similar to the one he has been using all along. (Until there is factual evidence to suggest a switch since 2003, all of those theories are the equivalent of alien autopsies, 9/11 being an inside job, and various ramblings about grassy knolls.)

And from a purely observational, physical and analytical point of view, the retail frame which his actual specs match most closely is the K90. It shares the weight, balance and material distribution properties of Fed's frame (which the BLX90 does not), which also suggests...although it does not prove...that it uses the most similar materials of the three to Fed's frame. The K90 also shares the drill pattern and grommet spec of Fed's frame (unlike the N90) and it is the frame that best matches the statements of those people at the USRSA, P1 and other unbiased sources about various other qualities of Fed's frame. Can we prove that he didn't take an N90 and customize it and re-drill it to exactly match what the K90 would eventually have at retail? No. Can we prove or conclude with total certainty yet that he hasn't switched to the BLX? Not outright. But to believe he has made any switches or used anything other than something very close to the K90 requires a leap of faith and the suggestion of bizarre events that don't make much sense. Even a cursory knowledge of how pro tennis players handle their equipment makes either of those options HIGHLY UNLIKELY. Further, the specs of the new BLX 90 match Fed's specs less closely than the K90 did, so not only is it unlikely, unusual and downright bizarre that he would switch to something new, but it's even more so when you consider that he'd then have to customize the new frame much more than the old just to get back to his desired spec, which he's still using.

So in the absence of evidence to the contrary, of which there's none that I've ever seen (but I'm happy to be shown some), the logical conclusion is that he's been using the same frame since 2003, and that it's most similar to the K90 of all the recent versions, though not totally unlike the other two. Is that incontrovertible? No. But it would seem to me that it's on those theorists of the less likely eventualities to prove that wrong, not the other way around.

Stop making sense. Reasoning and logical thinking have no place in this argument between "keyboard guru" and "holy fail".

jimbo333
08-24-2010, 03:46 AM
When did Federer start to use Luxilon in the mains? When did he switch to Luxilon in the crosses?

I didn't know he did use it in the mains?

Pioneer
08-24-2010, 03:52 AM
This has been discussed about 110827810287 times already.

This racquet came from the Wilson Pro Room, which is the source of Roger's racquets. This racquet has the same external dimensions and stringbed pattern as a retail K Six.One Tour 90. It would appear that the racquet Roger is using is virtually identical to the racquet that anyone can buy at retail, as I speculated previously.

http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/pro_racquet_specs/federer_wilson_k.html

jimbo333
08-24-2010, 03:55 AM
What is really odd though, is that the only time Federer has ever used the longer grip in his career was in Spring of 2003 for a couple of months, when he used the retail PSTour90!

I wonder why he did this?

I'm pretty sure what happened is this:

In mid-2002, he switched to a Tour 90 mold with the lay-up of what essentially became the K90 but without the SiO2 nano particles infused in the graphite (which the K90 does have). It was just braided graphite and Kevlar just like the PS 6.0 85 he had been using for many years until this switch. Like the K90, this lay-up did not contain HyperCarbon. He's talked about how he credits his switch to a 90 sq. in. frame right before the 2002 Hamburg Masters as helping him win his first Masters tournament. This racquet had the red HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob on it. Then later in early 2003, he tested several prototypes when Wilson was developing the nCode 90. One of the racquets that he tried was the retail PS Tour 90 which contained HyperCarbon but was originally designed for Sampras (but then Sampras retired). He only used it very briefly and decided he didn't like it. So Wilson took the 90 sq. in. racquet that he had been using and infused it with the SiO2 nano molecules but left out the HyperCarbon. This racquet evolved into the K90, which Federer first used with a black PS Tour 90 paintjob on it in mid-2003. He won his first Slam with it (2003 Wimbledon). This is the same racquet that Federer has been using ever since then, just with various paintjobs on it. The retail nCode 90 got both HyperCarbon and SiO2 nano molecules, but Federer never used it on tour.

Yeah, this may well be true, but there is quite a lot of speculation there, but I think you may be mostly correct.

I'd still like to know why for April and May 2003 Federer used a longer grip (only time he has ever done this)!

It was when he seemed to be using the retail PSTour90. Sampras also used a shorter grip, so I doubt the PSTour90 was designed specifically for him. I think Federer at one point was going to go with this racquet, but then went with the custom90 (K90) in June 2003.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2drhuft.jpg

The above photo may be the actual racquet Federer used in April/May 2003. It looks like a retail PSTour90 with the longer grip and 5 strings holes in the PWS. But has Federer's printed signature and no rough grey paint down side of frame. It came from an ex-Pro in Germany (don't know which one) apparently!

http://i38.tinypic.com/293vosh.jpg

0d1n
08-24-2010, 05:14 AM
Yeah, this may well be true, but there is quite a lot of speculation there, but I think you may be mostly correct.

I'd still like to know why for April and May 2003 Federer used a longer grip (only time he has ever done this)!

It was when he seemed to be using the retail PSTour90. Sampras also used a shorter grip, so I doubt the PSTour90 was designed specifically for him. I think Federer at one point was going to go with this racquet, but then went with the custom90 (K90) in June 2003.



The above photo may be the actual racquet Federer used in April/May 2003. It looks like a retail PSTour90 with the longer grip and 5 strings holes in the PWS. But has Federer's printed signature and no rough grey paint down side of frame. It came from an ex-Pro in Germany (don't know which one) apparently!


How about...he used the Tour 90 for a while and liked it, and when he decided he will stay with it, he put in the effort in the final/detail fine tuning (i.e. custom molded handles and slight adjustment to the string pattern/spacing to suit his hitting style better).

Why is THAT so inconceivable, and why we need to go with the "it's a k90 kept in the closet for many years before finally deciding to release it to the public" theory ??
Speaking of logical...that seems AT LEAST as logical as the wild "hidden k90" ones, and CERTAINLY more logical than the theory that he changed racquets each time Wilson released a new "technology"...which IMO is damn right stupid.

IS the above theory not conceivable because it doesn't suit BP's "once upon a time there were these SiO2 nano molecules, and Hyper Carbon which for sure are (or not) present in Federer's racquet because I say so" bed time story ????
This progression seems far more probable than "hyper this" and "nano that" which are or aren't present in the layup of Federer's racquet based on somebody's personal opinion about what "feels like a pro staff 85" and what "doesn't feel like a pro staff 85" ...which by the way is extremely subjective and I've seen PLENTY of reports from die hard Pro Staff fans stating that the TOUR 90 was actually closer...bla bla...which is contrary to opinions expressed by a very VERY active poster in this thread.
Also, that argument ... regardless of opinions about which iteration of the tour 90 is more similar to the 85 is completely flawed and irrelevant...because ... well ... obviously Federer wanted something DIFFERENT from the PS 85 since he wanted to CHANGE that racquet. If he would have wanted something with the same qualities, he would have just stayed with the freakin' 85.
He obviously wanted something different, and nobody except him and the Wilson engineers knows exactly what those different requirements were (besides the obvious added "forgiveness" provided by the slightly larger head).

LPShanet
08-24-2010, 07:27 AM
No one doubts that fed has played with the same racquet since 2003. It's the belief of some that tout as if it's a absolute fact that feds racquets are the exact same as the k90.

To be fair to Tensprofes, that's not the title of the thread here. Looks like he (and I) were trying to answer the OP, which we've done.

Fedace
08-24-2010, 07:30 AM
Which retail Wilson Tour 90 is closest to FEDERER's actual racquet in terms of composition, weight distribution, string pattern, "feel" and etc?

ProStaff Tour 90, Ncode Tour 90, KFactor Tour 90 or BLX Tour 90?

I have searched and the results were confusing. There were debates between the Ncode and KFactor, but now they are people believing he is using the new BLX:confused::confused:

Then how do you know what the Actual Specs of Federer racket is currently ??????:confused:

LPShanet
08-24-2010, 07:31 AM
Sure the K90 and BLX90 don't feel the same, but are they really different enough that you think that there's no way Federer, who spends hours on courts almost everyday and probably has the best touches around, can adapt too it? Especially when he can customized them to feel almost the same with changes in string tensions and weights? Have you guys even hit with BLX90 for more than a month? Because I'm telling you that it's a better racquet after spending months with it after switching from K90.



Yes, they are different enough. Definitely, incontrovertibly, conclusively. Why? Because any two racquet models are different enough, and PROS DON'T SWITCH RACQUETS unless they are seeking something specific. If no other pro on the tour does, why would Fed? What would he gain by it? Nothing. That's why paint jobs exist in the first place. This is a specious argument. Even when companies TRY to make the exact same racquet they usually fail. Because every production line is different. Whether it be source material, paint or other factors, they never reproduce a frame exactly. Fact.

BreakPoint
08-24-2010, 10:50 AM
Yeah, this may well be true, but there is quite a lot of speculation there, but I think you may be mostly correct.

I'd still like to know why for April and May 2003 Federer used a longer grip (only time he has ever done this)!

It was when he seemed to be using the retail PSTour90. Sampras also used a shorter grip, so I doubt the PSTour90 was designed specifically for him. I think Federer at one point was going to go with this racquet, but then went with the custom90 (K90) in June 2003.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2drhuft.jpg

The above photo may be the actual racquet Federer used in April/May 2003. It looks like a retail PSTour90 with the longer grip and 5 strings holes in the PWS. But has Federer's printed signature and no rough grey paint down side of frame. It came from an ex-Pro in Germany (don't know which one) apparently!

http://i38.tinypic.com/293vosh.jpg
The PS Tour 90 was designed for Sampras. Sampras was already hitting with it in early 2003 when he thought he would still play in 2003 and before he decided to retire. I'm not sure if the PST90 that Sampras was using had a longer grip or not? Do you have any pics? Even if Sampras used a shorter grip, that doesn't mean he wasn't using a retail PST90 since as we all know, Nate Ferguson custom molded all of Sampras's handles for him, so he can mold it to any length that Sampras wanted. The PST90 that were sent to retail had, of course, their handles molded in the factory to Wilson's desired length.

Yes, like I mentioned earlier, I believe Federer tested the retail PST90 in April/June 2003, which is why his racaquet had the longer grip and tighter string pattern. I think this was just a temporary measure while Wilson was getting the K90 into production for him. It's also possible that he thought the tighter string pattern would help him during that clay court season? In any case, Wilson got the new K90 (with the PST90 paintjob) to him in time for the 2003 grass court season, which he went on to use to win his very first Slam (2003 Wimbledon). The rest, as they say, is history. :)

And after winning his first Slam and fulfilling his life long dream of winning Wimbledon, I'm pretty sure he wanted to stick with his new K90 racquet.

BreakPoint
08-24-2010, 10:54 AM
How about...he used the Tour 90 for a while and liked it, and when he decided he will stay with it, he put in the effort in the final/detail fine tuning (i.e. custom molded handles and slight adjustment to the string pattern/spacing to suit his hitting style better).

Why is THAT so inconceivable, and why we need to go with the "it's a k90 kept in the closet for many years before finally deciding to release it to the public" theory ??
Speaking of logical...that seems AT LEAST as logical as the wild "hidden k90" ones, and CERTAINLY more logical than the theory that he changed racquets each time Wilson released a new "technology"...which IMO is damn right stupid.

IS the above theory not conceivable because it doesn't suit BP's "once upon a time there were these SiO2 nano molecules, and Hyper Carbon which for sure are (or not) present in Federer's racquet because I say so" bed time story ????
This progression seems far more probable than "hyper this" and "nano that" which are or aren't present in the layup of Federer's racquet based on somebody's personal opinion about what "feels like a pro staff 85" and what "doesn't feel like a pro staff 85" ...which by the way is extremely subjective and I've seen PLENTY of reports from die hard Pro Staff fans stating that the TOUR 90 was actually closer...bla bla...which is contrary to opinions expressed by a very VERY active poster in this thread.
Also, that argument ... regardless of opinions about which iteration of the tour 90 is more similar to the 85 is completely flawed and irrelevant...because ... well ... obviously Federer wanted something DIFFERENT from the PS 85 since he wanted to CHANGE that racquet. If he would have wanted something with the same qualities, he would have just stayed with the freakin' 85.
He obviously wanted something different, and nobody except him and the Wilson engineers knows exactly what those different requirements were (besides the obvious added "forgiveness" provided by the slightly larger head).
Wrong. Federer had stated that he wanted to use the same racquet but just with a slightly bigger head to cut down on the mishits. He didn't want something radically different.

Oh, and the K90 wasn't "kept in the closet". Federer (and perhaps some other sponsored players) were already using it. There was no need for Wilson to release it right away since they had just developed the new nCode 90 for the retail market. It wouldn't have made any sense for them to put out both racquets at he same time. It was easier for them to put out the nCode 90 (with the HyperCarbon that Wilson assumed customers wanted) and then paint Federer's K90 to look like the nCode 90 to market it.

0d1n
08-24-2010, 12:12 PM
Fact is...my story is just as good as yours, in fact ... it's better because it's a more logical progression.
We both have no actual KNOWLEDGE about the frame composition, and we're just speculating.
I'm admitting that...you are not.
Keep coming up with "SIO2" stories out of your arse...it's obviously very important for you to think that he uses a "production line" K90 because you are the one writing about half of the posts in EVERY thread on this subject.
You've been "preaching it" for so long and making statements of so called "facts" so often that some newbie users who don't really know your "TT online character" actually believe you KNOW what you are talking about instead of making up stories and declaring them "facts".
Keep it up "guru"...

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-24-2010, 12:14 PM
And after winning his first Slam and fulfilling his life long dream of winning Wimbledon, I'm pretty sure he wanted to stick with his new K90 racquet.


This is really pathetic.

JoelDali
08-24-2010, 12:25 PM
Jesus, you guys need to get laid.

All of this has been dissected so many times already.

LOL

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=143159

JoelDali
08-24-2010, 12:26 PM
Fact is...my story is just as good as yours, in fact ... it's better because it's a more logical progression.
We both have no actual KNOWLEDGE about the frame composition, and we're just speculating.
I'm admitting that...you are not.
Keep coming up with "SIO2" stories out of your arse...it's obviously very important for you to think that he uses a "production line" K90 because you are the one writing about half of the posts in EVERY thread on this subject.
You've been "preaching it" for so long and making statements of so called "facts" so often that some newbie users who don't really know your "TT online character" actually believe you KNOW what you are talking about instead of making up stories and declaring them "facts".
Keep it up "guru"...

Hes been at it since 2007, LOL

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1452966&postcount=18

0d1n
08-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Jesus, you guys need to get laid.

All of this has been dissected so many times already.

LOL

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=143159

Yeh...it has...and the "usual suspect" is flooding with posts ALL the iterations of this stupid subject...

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-24-2010, 12:37 PM
Huh? All his racquets looked the same. And why is it hard to believe that Federer's racquets come from the same factory in China? Do you seriously think Wilson built a whole new factory in the US just to make a few racquets for Federer? Get real.


The tour90 and ncode90 looked the same? Really? If the BLX just happened to come out when the k90 did you would think it's exactly the same also. There is no difference..


Oh, and even a badminton racquet is too heavy for you, which is why you play tennis with a ping pong paddle and still need to use two hands to swing it as you're too weak to swing even a ping pong paddle with only one hand. :oops: LOL

Funny. But this doesn't change the fact you buy racquets that you know are too heavy for you. "Just because of federer'' and forced you to buy the asian versions becasue of it. Yeah yeah, you 'prefer' the flexibility of the asian.. What a poser. The GOAT-GURU of posers who buys racquets because of his heros like mcenroe and the 200g LOL.


Yet you keep trying to prove me wrong so it's obvious to everyone that YOU care. :oops:

No i don't care. Unlike you, i don't tell everyone the k90 is federers exact frame because that's the only reason i bought it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize you are full of it, and very delusional who's racquet purchase would be crushed if they found out that the ''K90'' is NOT federers ''exact'' frame. Don't you see how pathetic you are? Please read your posts. If that's not a delusional fanatic fanboy i don't know what is. You need help.

TensProfes
08-24-2010, 12:40 PM
Yeh...it has...and the "usual suspect" is flooding with posts ALL the iterations of this stupid subject...

It would seem that there are a few "usual suspects" here...the one you cite, and a few others insulting and egging him on, which just creates more posts.

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-24-2010, 12:43 PM
Hes been at it since 2007, LOL


Actually he has been at it since the dunlop max fort came out. Purchased that because of mcenroe. Then switched to the 200g because of mcenroe. Then switched to the ps95 because of sampras, but really wanted to use the 85 but it was just too heavy. Now the k90 because of federer. But again, uses the asian because it is too heavy. :(

Povl Carstensen
08-24-2010, 12:43 PM
Whatever the exact specifications of Federer's racquet, be they in materials, stringing pattern, grips, etc, you can be sure that none of us would be able to play with his racquet.

Why..?
10chrx

0d1n
08-24-2010, 12:55 PM
It would seem that there are a few "usual suspects" here...the one you cite, and a few others insulting and egging him on, which just creates more posts.

Yeh...you're right, I'm outta here...I feel like I'm getting dumber with every post I'm reading in this thread.
This thread is needlessly killing my neurons :???:

Povl Carstensen
08-24-2010, 12:58 PM
If you take away the childish personal insults, theres much more content (arguments, observations, facts, quotes from knowledgable people) in the the advocates of the K theory than the naysayers...

BreakPoint
08-24-2010, 02:34 PM
The tour90 and ncode90 looked the same? Really? If the BLX just happened to come out when the k90 did you would think it's exactly the same also. There is no difference..
Yes, because all of the Tour 90's come out of the same mold.


Funny. But this doesn't change the fact you buy racquets that you know are too heavy for you. "Just because of federer'' and forced you to buy the asian versions becasue of it. Yeah yeah, you 'prefer' the flexibility of the asian.. What a poser. The GOAT-GURU of posers who buys racquets because of his heros like mcenroe and the 200g LOL.
You mean I bought and used the 14 oz. Dunlop Maxply Fort for 12 years because it was too heavy for me? Really? How did I beat so many people with a racquet that was "too heavy for me"? :confused:

I bought the K90 because I liked the nCode except for its muted feel and I was hoping the feel of the K90 would be closer to that of the PS 6.0 95 I had used prior to that. And guess what? The K90 does feel closer to the PS 6.0 95 than the nCode 90, so I switched. Simple as that. Yet you seem to think it was some sort of conspiracy involving Federer. If I buy racquets only because of Federer, why haven't I bought even a single BLX90? The answer is that I tested it and preferred the crisper feel of the K90. If I wanted to look just like Federer, wouldn't I have switched to the BLX90 already? :oops: Oh, and the 200G I used had a completely different paintjob than the one McEnroe used so no one even knew McEnroe used the same racquet.


No i don't care. Unlike you, i don't tell everyone the k90 is federers exact frame because that's the only reason i bought it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize you are full of it, and very delusional who's racquet purchase would be crushed if they found out that the ''K90'' is NOT federers ''exact'' frame. Don't you see how pathetic you are? Please read your posts. If that's not a delusional fanatic fanboy i don't know what is. You need help.
Um..when I bought the K90 I had no idea that Federer used the same racquet. I only found out later.

Even if Federer switched to the BLX90, I would still keep using the K90 because I like it better than the BLX90. I couldn't care less what Federer is really using when choosing my own racquets. If he switched to the KPS88, I sure wouldn't because I didn't like it.

I know, I know. This is all too hard for your brain to comprehend. After all, you can't think for yourself so you just buy the same racquet and clothes as Agassi and use the same 2HBH as Agassi. I bet you even spent months perfecting the same pigeon walk as Agassi. LOL

BreakPoint
08-24-2010, 02:45 PM
Actually he has been at it since the dunlop max fort came out. Purchased that because of mcenroe. Then switched to the 200g because of mcenroe. Then switched to the ps95 because of sampras, but really wanted to use the 85 but it was just too heavy. Now the k90 because of federer. But again, uses the asian because it is too heavy. :(
Really? I began using the Dunlop Maxply Fort in the mid-70's while McEnroe only switched to the Maxply Fort in 1981, so exactly how did I purchase a racquet because of some kid in high school that no one had ever heard of and had never even played in a professional tennis tournament? Are you sure McEnroe didn't switch to the Maxply Fort because of me? :shock:

Tell me, if I wanted to use the same racquet as Sampras, why didn't I switch to a PS 6.0 85 in the early 90's? Why did I switch to a PS 6.0 95 only AFTER Sampras retired? Not that Sampras ever used a PS 6.0 95 nor was I even a fan of Sampras while he was on tour. No, I continued to use the 200G almost the entire time that Sampras was on the pro tour!

Tell me, which pro was I copying when I used the Head Ti.Fire Tour Edition for several years? Huh? I thought that was going to be my holy grail for life as I loved everything about it. Unfortunately, I developed tennis elbow for the first time in my life using it so I was forced to switch. That was the ONLY reason I ended up switching to the PS 6.0 95, as it was heavier, flexier, and shorter, and had an old-school feel to it (like my old 200G). I never has any issues with tennis elbow using the PS 6.0 95. Then I switched to the nCode 90 because it just felt so rock solid and had more plow-through than the PS 6.0 95.

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-24-2010, 08:50 PM
Really? I began using the Dunlop Maxply Fort in the mid-70's while McEnroe only switched to the Maxply Fort in 1981, so exactly how did I purchase a racquet because of some kid in high school that no one had ever heard of and had never even played in a professional tennis tournament? Are you sure McEnroe didn't switch to the Maxply Fort because of me? :shock:


Hmm, theres just got to be a pro that made you buy the dunlop. Rod Laver? Are you telling me you bought the dunlop on your own with no knowledge of a pro that used it. Is that what you are honestly saying?

Tell me, if I wanted to use the same racquet as Sampras, why didn't I switch to a PS 6.0 85 in the early 90's? Why did I switch to a PS 6.0 95 only AFTER Sampras retired?

Because after all the grand slams sampras racked up you finally realized he was better than mcenroe. Hence your purchase of pro staff 6.0 95. Obviously the 85 was too heavy for you :) Please explain why you didn't use the 85..

Tell me, which pro was I copying when I used the Head Ti.Fire Tour Edition for several years? Huh? I thought that was going to be my holy grail for life as I loved everything about it. Unfortunately, I developed tennis elbow for the first time in my life using it so I was forced to switch. That was the ONLY reason I ended up switching to the PS 6.0 95, as it was heavier, flexier, and shorter, and had an old-school feel to it (like my old 200G). I never has any issues with tennis elbow using the PS 6.0 95. Then I switched to the nCode 90 because it just felt so rock solid and had more plow-through than the PS 6.0 95.

Sure, and federer had absolutely nothing to do with it. Ohh well.

Povl Carstensen
08-25-2010, 03:22 AM
Listen Breakpoint, I dont think Ultra2HolyGrail will change, but I really think you should try to go after the ball, sorry racket, instead of the man.
I agree with you on almost all points, just not really convinced that there are nano particles in the K, seems pretty close to the PS85 in composition to me.

Fedace
08-25-2010, 06:18 AM
Yeah, this may well be true, but there is quite a lot of speculation there, but I think you may be mostly correct.

I'd still like to know why for April and May 2003 Federer used a longer grip (only time he has ever done this)!

It was when he seemed to be using the retail PSTour90. Sampras also used a shorter grip, so I doubt the PSTour90 was designed specifically for him. I think Federer at one point was going to go with this racquet, but then went with the custom90 (K90) in June 2003.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2drhuft.jpg

The above photo may be the actual racquet Federer used in April/May 2003. It looks like a retail PSTour90 with the longer grip and 5 strings holes in the PWS. But has Federer's printed signature and no rough grey paint down side of frame. It came from an ex-Pro in Germany (don't know which one) apparently!

http://i38.tinypic.com/293vosh.jpg

This is the best racket Federer's has played with since his juinor days. all those Kfactors and ncodes just can't measure up to greatness of this frame.

LPShanet
08-25-2010, 08:51 AM
Listen Breakpoint, I dont think Ultra2HolyGrail will change, but I really think you should try to go after the ball, sorry racket, instead of the man.
I agree with you on almost all points, just not really convinced that there are nano particles in the K, seems pretty close to the PS85 in composition to me.

There ARE nano-particles in the K (and the BLX). It's in all the literature. Just different ways of achieving the same thing. Look for silicon dioxide...those are the nano particles.

Povl Carstensen
08-25-2010, 10:03 AM
Ok, I was not aware of this. Were there nano particles in the PS85?

BreakPoint
08-25-2010, 11:03 AM
Listen Breakpoint, I dont think Ultra2HolyGrail will change, but I really think you should try to go after the ball, sorry racket, instead of the man.
I agree with you on almost all points, just not really convinced that there are nano particles in the K, seems pretty close to the PS85 in composition to me.
The K90 basically has the same composition as the PS 6.0 85/95 (80% graphite and 20% Kevlar). All the nano SiO2 molecules do is to make the carbon (graphite) matrices bonds stronger. It doesn't really change the feel of the frame all that much but just makes it more durable and longer lasting (less likely to crack and longer playability).

BreakPoint
08-25-2010, 11:04 AM
Ok, I was not aware of this. Were there nano particles in the PS85?
No, there were not. They also cracked quite often.

BreakPoint
08-25-2010, 11:38 AM
Hmm, theres just got to be a pro that made you buy the dunlop. Rod Laver? Are you telling me you bought the dunlop on your own with no knowledge of a pro that used it. Is that what you are honestly saying?

A pro? I not sure there was even much pro tennis on TV back then because I didn't watch very much. Laver was already near the end of his career and was sponsored by Chemold so he used a Chemold gold-toned aluminum racquet. I never saw him play anyway. I bought the Maxply Fort because it was sold everywhere, including the K-Marts of the world. So it was available, not expensive, and it looked cool. THAT'S why I bought it. After using it for a while, I decided I liked it and bought a dozen more.


Because after all the grand slams sampras racked up you finally realized he was better than mcenroe. Hence your purchase of pro staff 6.0 95. Obviously the 85 was too heavy for you Please explain why you didn't use the 85..
Yeah, sure. The PS 6.0 85 had been on the market since 1983 and it was extremely popular - lots of pros and recreational players used it, it was everywhere. I had absolutely no interest in even trying it as I couldn't care less what top pros like Sampras, Edberg, and Couier was using. I liked the feel of my Max 200G so I had no interest in even trying anything else. Unlike you, I never bought a Head Radical because of Agassi nor a Prince Graphite because of Chang. :oops:

After taking 6 months off due to tennis elbow, I came back and needed to switch to a heavier racquet so demoed both the PS Tour 90 and the HPS 6.0 95 Tour. I liked both but the HPS 6.0 95 Tour a little more. I was not going to buy the PS Tour 90 just because Sampras and Federer used it. That's something only YOU would do. :oops: Then I found out that there used to be a PS 6.0 95 but which was discontinued. I never even knew it had existed. I found an old one and I liked it better than the new HPS 6.0 95 Tour version because I liked the feel more without the HyperCarbon and I could also serve better with it because it swung heavier. So what did Sampras have anything to do with this? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! I was not even a fan of Sampras back then.

I didn't switch to the PS 6.0 85 because after coming from the 98 sq. in. Head Ti.Fire TE, I had trouble volleying with the PS 6.0 85. The 85 was great for serving and for slicing, but I couldn't generate as much topspin with it as I could with the 95. The 95 was a serve and volley machine!


Sure, and federer had absolutely nothing to do with it. Ohh well.
I used the Asian nCode which Federer never used anyway. Heck, I don't even use Federer's K90 since I use the Asian version, so how can I be using it because of Federer? :confused: If Federer used a Pure Drive, do you seriously think a guy like me who grew up using the Maxply Fort woodie would use a Pure Drive? Not on your life!!! I only use low-powered racquets that feel solid, stable, and have that old-school feel to them. The K90 has that!

LPShanet
08-25-2010, 11:43 AM
Ok, I was not aware of this. Were there nano particles in the PS85?

No, there weren't. The N series were the first Wilsons with nano technology...if you care about that sort of thing.

Ultra2HolyGrail
08-25-2010, 12:56 PM
I used the Asian nCode which Federer never used anyway. Heck, I don't even use Federer's K90 since I use the Asian version, so how can I be using it because of Federer? :confused: If Federer used a Pure Drive, do you seriously think a guy like me who grew up using the Maxply Fort woodie would use a Pure Drive? Not on your life!!! I only use low-powered racquets that feel solid, stable, and have that old-school feel to them. The K90 has that!


Well do you honestly think if neither federer or sampras used such small frames that you would be using it? And just maybe you might play better with a pure drive? Even mcenroe has moved on to a 98in. Are you the only old school guy who plays with a 90in against guys you actually compete against?

TensProfes
08-25-2010, 01:27 PM
Well do you honestly think if neither federer or sampras used such small frames that you would be using it? And just maybe you might play better with a pure drive? Even mcenroe has moved on to a 98in. Are you the only old school guy who plays with a 90in against guys you actually compete against?

Just so we don't get too far off-topic from the OP's post, and because this seems like a personal thing, do you two guys think maybe you should take the rest of your back and forth discourse off-thread? You can exchange email addresses or IM logins. What do you think? Alternately, you could start a new thread for what you're discussing, and those interested could follow that one.

Silky Sampras
08-25-2010, 05:03 PM
Ok, I was not aware of this. Were there nano particles in the PS85?

Probably not, but I think it was rife with carbon atoms...:)

1970CRBase
08-25-2010, 05:16 PM
Just so we don't get too far off-topic from the OP's post, and because this seems like a personal thing, do you two guys think maybe you should take the rest of your back and forth discourse off-thread? You can exchange email addresses or IM logins. What do you think? Alternately, you could start a new thread for what you're discussing, and those interested could follow that one.

To be fair, it's U2HG who keeps attacking BP with nonsense because he keeps losing his arguments with him. Hope this thread doesn't get derailed by U2HG's attacks and is deleted like the previous.

Silky Sampras
08-25-2010, 05:59 PM
Wilson is able to make all these new generations of racquets now because either Federer is willing to use the new technologies or he is willing to paint his racquets. We can't be sure which one it is. I do think that Federer used NCoded technology in 2004 based on the muted sound his shots made on the times that I saw him.

Wilson had to stick with the Pro Staff line for so long because Sampras was unwilling to change his racquets in any way.

Whatever the reason, I think that Wilson is bringing out too many generations of new racquets now, and I don't think that it will win them many new fans in the long run.

BreakPoint
08-25-2010, 06:37 PM
Well do you honestly think if neither federer or sampras used such small frames that you would be using it? And just maybe you might play better with a pure drive? Even mcenroe has moved on to a 98in. Are you the only old school guy who plays with a 90in against guys you actually compete against?
Have you not been listening? I grew up using a 14 oz., 65 sq. in. WOOD racquet. I used wood racquets exclusively for over 12 years! A 90 sq. in. racquet is MASSIVE in comparison. A 12.5 oz. racquet is a FEATHER in comparison. A K90 is a ROCKET LAUNCHER in comparison (despite being one of the lowest powered racquets in the past few years and lower-powered than the PST 90 and nCode 90). I don't need the power nor big head of the Pure Drive. I would just have less control. I wouldn't get the feel that I like. And I would get tennis elbow faster than you can say - "Ouch!". Oh, and almost everyone that I beat uses a larger racquet. Maybe their racquets are too big??? LOL :shock:

sixone90
11-10-2010, 11:00 PM
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I posted a question here previously that was unanswered.

When did Federer start to use Luxilon in the mains? When did he switch to Luxilon in the crosses?

And when did he start to use P1?

gplracer
11-25-2010, 12:35 PM
wow! this is a long thread! If Federer's racket is around 360 grams, how would it compare to the kps 88?

Rexking
02-26-2012, 08:38 AM
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I posted a question here previously that was unanswered.

When did Federer start to use Luxilon in the mains? When did he switch to Luxilon in the crosses?

And when did he start to use P1?

This is a good question, I thought he always used gut in the mains never luxilon?

2Hare
02-28-2012, 03:22 PM
I don't understand why there's so much arguments over which six one tour does Federer use. Seems like he did switch from N90, to K90, and to BLX90. I mean these are very similar rackets. Minor differences could be compensated with string and weight adjustments.

When he was using N90, he was using retail mold but drilled with different number of holes. The playtest that was conducted by Mr. Raven years ago proves so:
http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/federer_playtest.html

When he was using K90, it was confirmed by people as well.
When he was using BLX90, Federer said he switched in an interview, and I believe him. Saying otherwise would be calling Federer a liar and you better come up with sufficient evidence if you want to call GOAT a LIAR!

It's funny how people seems to judge Federer's preference based on their own preference especially when they don't even have the same string and weight setup. I encourage these people to use the exact same setup as Federer and perhaps play with string tension and use it within half a day of stringing because that's what Federer do. Because unless you've done so, you DON'T KNOW what six-one tour plays like for Federer.

sixone90
02-28-2012, 04:24 PM
When he was using N90, he was using retail mold but drilled with different number of holes. The playtest that was conducted by Mr. Raven years ago proves so:
http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/federer_playtest.html

When he was using K90, it was confirmed by people as well.
When he was using BLX90, Federer said he switched in an interview, and I believe him. Saying otherwise would be calling Federer a liar and you better come up with sufficient evidence if you want to call GOAT a LIAR!


Well of course it's the retail mold, the mold hasn't changed. The playtest proved nothing really, it just proved it played similar to the nCode Six One Tour which also means it plays similar to the K Six One Tour and also the BLX Six One Tour.

It was never confirmed that he switched to the K Six One Tour although most people have agreed that he is using the K Six One Tour under various paintjobs.

Where/when did federer say he switched to the BLX? Find me that interview and I will believe you. You better come up with sufficient evidence otherwise you are the liar.

kishnabe
02-28-2012, 05:55 PM
I don't understand why there's so much arguments over which six one tour does Federer use. Seems like he did switch from N90, to K90, and to BLX90. I mean these are very similar rackets. Minor differences could be compensated with string and weight adjustments.

When he was using N90, he was using retail mold but drilled with different number of holes. The playtest that was conducted by Mr. Raven years ago proves so:
http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/federer_playtest.html

When he was using K90, it was confirmed by people as well.
When he was using BLX90, Federer said he switched in an interview, and I believe him. Saying otherwise would be calling Federer a liar and you better come up with sufficient evidence if you want to call GOAT a LIAR!

It's funny how people seems to judge Federer's preference based on their own preference especially when they don't even have the same string and weight setup. I encourage these people to use the exact same setup as Federer and perhaps play with string tension and use it within half a day of stringing because that's what Federer do. Because unless you've done so, you DON'T KNOW what six-one tour plays like for Federer.

People lie for money..... Celebrity A " I use this product everyday, I endorse it".

Federer uses BlX ProStaff 90, Can you feel it". THe truth....it just a paintjob of a customized enlargement of PS85.

mmk
02-28-2012, 06:21 PM
...

It's funny how people seems to judge Federer's preference based on their own preference especially when they don't even have the same string and weight setup. I encourage these people to use the exact same setup as Federer and perhaps play with string tension and use it within half a day of stringing because that's what Federer do. Because unless you've done so, you DON'T KNOW what six-one tour plays like for Federer.

So why doesn't Wilson sell the racquet already weighted the way Roger likes? That way everyone can know what a six-one tour plays like for Federer.

ATP100
02-28-2012, 07:12 PM
Prostaff 85

donnaypro
02-28-2012, 10:44 PM
Just to clear up the confusion. I have hit with the "pro mold" racquet that federer actually uses. I got the racquet from Alexandra Stevenson and this mold is only available to top pro's that are sponsored by wilson.

Unlike most of the collector's that own federer's match played racquets, I have actually gone out and hit with the "pro mold."

Here is what I found, but first a little about myself:

I am a 5-5-6.0 level teaching pro. And currently use the wilson 6.0 85.

The "pro mold" that federer uses is completely different than retail...the mold is the same, but the composition is very different.

The retail version has a very stiff feel to it, while the "pro mold" has a very soft and solid feel to it (very similar to the PS 85).

Something very different about the "pro mold" racquet is that it has a tendency to produce more topspin on all shots when compared to both the PS 85 and retail Blx 90 racquets.

The "pro mold" is also much more difficult to use compared to the retail version, and if proper technique is not used, shots tend to fly off the racquet.

Overall, fed's actual racquet is very different than retail.

AlpineCadet
02-28-2012, 11:17 PM
2012 and the OP still gets his questions answered (well, not really) whether he likes it or not. BUMP!

PrinceMoron
02-28-2012, 11:37 PM
I just play with whatever TWH Chris is using. Hope he has not been using a paint job custom build or My world might come tumbling down around my ears.

2Hare
02-29-2012, 03:02 AM
Well of course it's the retail mold, the mold hasn't changed. The playtest proved nothing really, it just proved it played similar to the nCode Six One Tour which also means it plays similar to the K Six One Tour and also the BLX Six One Tour.

It was never confirmed that he switched to the K Six One Tour although most people have agreed that he is using the K Six One Tour under various paintjobs.

Where/when did federer say he switched to the BLX? Find me that interview and I will believe you. You better come up with sufficient evidence otherwise you are the liar.

Proved nothing? It proved that he was using ncoded (which I don't consider as nano tech) and not the old tour90 when the test was done. And again thanks for proving my point that N90 and K90, and BLX90 all play similarily. As for K90, yea it was pretty much confirmed by P1 that it was just retail K90 customized of course. i posted the interview a long while back, I simply don't remember where I found it.

2Hare
02-29-2012, 03:10 AM
So why doesn't Wilson sell the racquet already weighted the way Roger likes? That way everyone can know what a six-one tour plays like for Federer.

Easy, quality control. If you check out the customized Federer rackets then you'll find different length of lead tapes for every one of them. These rackets are built with rooms for errors so they can be balanced and matched afterward.

2Hare
02-29-2012, 03:12 AM
Just to clear up the confusion. I have hit with the "pro mold" racquet that federer actually uses. I got the racquet from Alexandra Stevenson and this mold is only available to top pro's that are sponsored by wilson.

Unlike most of the collector's that own federer's match played racquets, I have actually gone out and hit with the "pro mold."

Here is what I found, but first a little about myself:

I am a 5-5-6.0 level teaching pro. And currently use the wilson 6.0 85.

The "pro mold" that federer uses is completely different than retail...the mold is the same, but the composition is very different.

The retail version has a very stiff feel to it, while the "pro mold" has a very soft and solid feel to it (very similar to the PS 85).

Something very different about the "pro mold" racquet is that it has a tendency to produce more topspin on all shots when compared to both the PS 85 and retail Blx 90 racquets.

The "pro mold" is also much more difficult to use compared to the retail version, and if proper technique is not used, shots tend to fly off the racquet.

Overall, fed's actual racquet is very different than retail.

that's very interesting, thanks for sharing:) which version of this "pro mold" did you play with? And do you play PS85 and BLX90 with similar string setups?

corners
02-29-2012, 09:28 AM
Just to clear up the confusion. I have hit with the "pro mold" racquet that federer actually uses. I got the racquet from Alexandra Stevenson and this mold is only available to top pro's that are sponsored by wilson.

Thanks for posting this here. Interesting info.

Unlike most of the collector's that own federer's match played racquets, I have actually gone out and hit with the "pro mold."

Can you tell us who used the term "pro mold" when describing the racquet you hit with?

Here is what I found, but first a little about myself:

I am a 5-5-6.0 level teaching pro. And currently use the wilson 6.0 85.

The "pro mold" that federer uses is completely different than retail...the mold is the same, but the composition is very different.


Was this a K90 paintjob?

Are you saying that the layup used in this frame is different than the retail version? Were you told that the layup is different or are you assuming that it is based on your perceptions?

The retail version has a very stiff feel to it, while the "pro mold" has a very soft and solid feel to it (very similar to the PS 85).
Did you feel that it was more flexible in the top of the hoop than the retail version, or was the flexibility elsewhere?

Something very different about the "pro mold" racquet is that it has a tendency to produce more topspin on all shots when compared to both the PS 85 and retail Blx 90 racquets.

This is interesting. Do you know the weight/balance/swingweight of the Stevenson frame? I ask because the weight distribution of a frame can change the launch angle off the strings and some players will compensate for a high launch angle by closing the racquet-face, resulting in more spin.

This could also be related to the flexibility you described - flexible racquets provide more dwell time which is associated with more topspin by some. (Others say that stiffer racquets like Babolats give more spin.)

Also, heavier racquets have lower dynamic stiffness (vibration frequency) than light ones. Even if two racquets are identical in static stiffness (as measured by an RDC machine) they will feel very different if the specs are very different - the heavier racquet will feel much more flexible (it will have a lower vibration frequency and greater vibration amplitude). So it could be that the frame you played was not physically less flexible but was weighted in such a way that it was more flexible in play. I don't mean to doubt your perceptions, but I'm curious if you are interpreting your perceptions correctly.

The "pro mold" is also much more difficult to use compared to the retail version, and if proper technique is not used, shots tend to fly off the racquet.

Doesn't this sound like a weight and balance setup that you are not used to? If not, can you give us a little more info about how and why these shots tended to fly?

Overall, fed's actual racquet is very different than retail.

Very interesting.

sixone90
02-29-2012, 11:56 AM
Proved nothing? It proved that he was using ncoded (which I don't consider as nano tech) and not the old tour90 when the test was done. And again thanks for proving my point that N90 and K90, and BLX90 all play similarily. As for K90, yea it was pretty much confirmed by P1 that it was just retail K90 customized of course. i posted the interview a long while back, I simply don't remember where I found it.

I also happened to be present at the on court interview Federer did with Jim Courier after his match with Ivo Karlovic at the Australian Open and Federer said he has been playing with the same racquet for 10 years. Explain that

donnaypro
02-29-2012, 12:04 PM
that's very interesting, thanks for sharing:) which version of this "pro mold" did you play with? And do you play PS85 and BLX90 with similar string setups?

I've used all 3 paintjobs (k90, blx, n90) of the "pro mold"...they all play similar, the only difference is the paint job. Also, the paint is more of a matte finish on these racquets and not glossy like retail.

donnaypro
02-29-2012, 12:28 PM
I was both told the lay-up was different than retail, and I also felt the difference when playing.

Stevenson's specs are: Weight 364 grams (includes strings, grips, etc.)...balance is slightly more head heavy (compared to retail) as she does not use a leather grip.

However, when I compared this racquet to retail, I balanced and weighted the "pro mold" to match the specs of the retail version. I also used the same string (wilson extreme synthetic gut).

The "pro mold" has a very different feeling to it. It feels very similar to the PS 85 in terms of the solid feel and control when striking the ball.

In comparison, the retail version almost feels hollow...This would lead me to believe that like the PS 85, the pro-mold probably has a composition of braided kevlar and graphite.

corners
02-29-2012, 12:46 PM
I was both told the lay-up was different than retail, and I also felt the difference when playing.

Stevenson's specs are: Weight 364 grams (includes strings, grips, etc.)...balance is slightly more head heavy (compared to retail) as she does not use a leather grip.

However, when I compared this racquet to retail, I balanced and weighted the "pro mold" to match the specs of the retail version. I also used the same string (wilson extreme synthetic gut).

The "pro mold" has a very different feeling to it. It feels very similar to the PS 85 in terms of the solid feel and control when striking the ball.

In comparison, the retail version almost feels hollow...This would lead me to believe that like the PS 85, the pro-mold probably has a composition of braided kevlar and graphite.

OK, thanks for taking the time. Sounds like you did a very careful comparison. BTW, how would you compare the retail K90 to the PS85 and the pro Mold in terms of feel and flexibility? The K90 is, according to Wilson and some photos posted on this site of cut-up sections, also a graphite/kevlar braided frame. (The KPS88 is also graphite/kevlar)

2Hare
02-29-2012, 02:19 PM
I also happened to be present at the on court interview Federer did with Jim Courier after his match with Ivo Karlovic at the Australian Open and Federer said he has been playing with the same racquet for 10 years. Explain that

It IS the same racket. It's still six-one tour 90. Wilson's prostaff line is probably the most consistent line of rackets. All these BS about nano technology is basically wilson's way of telling you that they figure out ways to make the SAME racket with cheaper materials while maintaining similar stiffness and same price!

2Hare
02-29-2012, 02:22 PM
I was both told the lay-up was different than retail, and I also felt the difference when playing.

Stevenson's specs are: Weight 364 grams (includes strings, grips, etc.)...balance is slightly more head heavy (compared to retail) as she does not use a leather grip.

However, when I compared this racquet to retail, I balanced and weighted the "pro mold" to match the specs of the retail version. I also used the same string (wilson extreme synthetic gut).

The "pro mold" has a very different feeling to it. It feels very similar to the PS 85 in terms of the solid feel and control when striking the ball.

In comparison, the retail version almost feels hollow...This would lead me to believe that like the PS 85, the pro-mold probably has a composition of braided kevlar and graphite.

Cool, I didn't realize a female pro would play with tour90 :) Might want to try gut/alu in there next time. Feels amazing with sixone tour

donnaypro
02-29-2012, 09:19 PM
Cool, I didn't realize a female pro would play with tour90 :) Might want to try gut/alu in there next time. Feels amazing with sixone tour

Yea, she is one of the only female pro's to use heavy racquets. The racquet came with gut/alu, so I'm guessing she uses the same set-up as Federer.

donnaypro
02-29-2012, 09:43 PM
OK, thanks for taking the time. Sounds like you did a very careful comparison. BTW, how would you compare the retail K90 to the PS85 and the pro Mold in terms of feel and flexibility? The K90 is, according to Wilson and some photos posted on this site of cut-up sections, also a graphite/kevlar braided frame. (The KPS88 is also graphite/kevlar)

The "pro mold" would prob be the softest feeling. Followed by the PS85 and then retail.

It is tough to explain the differences between the racquets, but one thing is quite noticeable...the PS85 and the "pro mold" seem to have very little vibration that comes from the racquet, while the retail 90's seem to almost require the use of a vibration dampener to cover the vibration/sound from the racquet.

Another comparison would be that the PS85 and the "pro mold" seem to go through the ball on contact in a more smoother way when compared to the retail version.

The "pro mold" basically feels like a PS85 with a 90 inch head size.

Mike Bulgakov
02-29-2012, 11:22 PM
Stevenson's specs are: Weight 364 grams (includes strings, grips, etc.)...balance is slightly more head heavy (compared to retail) as she does not use a leather grip.

This makes sense. I only saw Stevenson play once, from courtside seats at the Acura Classic around ten years ago. She was very tall and strong, and drove through the ball with pretty flat strokes. She kept hitting the ball long.

As an aside, Anna Kournikova smoked her in that match. I have seen Anna play many matches in person, and I think tennis historians forget that she was a great athlete with a very nice, smooth all-court game.

sixone90
03-01-2012, 12:33 AM
It IS the same racket. It's still six-one tour 90. Wilson's prostaff line is probably the most consistent line of rackets. All these BS about nano technology is basically wilson's way of telling you that they figure out ways to make the SAME racket with cheaper materials while maintaining similar stiffness and same price!

Similar is not the same.

Povl Carstensen
03-01-2012, 05:34 AM
The retail version has a very stiff feel to it, while the "pro mold" has a very soft and solid feel to it (very similar to the PS 85).
I do not agree that a retail K (or BLX for that matter) have a stiffer feel than a PS85. I suggest that the difference you have felt could be more because of stringing or weight/balance differences than layup. Notice I said "could".

corners
03-01-2012, 07:30 AM
I do not agree that a retail K (or BLX for that matter) have a stiffer feel than a PS85. I suggest that the difference you have felt could be more because of stringing or weight/balance differences than layup. Notice I said "could".

Since the Stevenson frame had the leather removed and replaced with a lighter synthetic grip, but still weighed over 360 grams I would suspect that it had lead under the bumper. Higher swingweight frames generally feel softer because they plow through the ball better. Lead at 12 o'clock also lowers the dynamic stiffness of the frame and deadens the upper hoop. So you're right - it "could" be weight distribution effects rather than layup.

corners
03-01-2012, 07:33 AM
The "pro mold" would prob be the softest feeling. Followed by the PS85 and then retail.

It is tough to explain the differences between the racquets, but one thing is quite noticeable...the PS85 and the "pro mold" seem to have very little vibration that comes from the racquet, while the retail 90's seem to almost require the use of a vibration dampener to cover the vibration/sound from the racquet.

Another comparison would be that the PS85 and the "pro mold" seem to go through the ball on contact in a more smoother way when compared to the retail version.

The "pro mold" basically feels like a PS85 with a 90 inch head size.

Do you think the pro mold may have had silicone in the handle?

I have noticed that when Federer plays his racquet makes little sound - like "Wud" rather than a "Thwap!" but I always attributed that to his low string tension.

Many very good players have said the K90 does not feel like a PS85, or not close enough for their tastes, anyway. I haven't played an 85 in so long that I don't really remember how it felt. Maybe I should pick up one of the TW reissues. Have you hit this re-release?

Povl Carstensen
03-01-2012, 09:11 AM
Do you think the pro mold may have had silicone in the handle?

I have noticed that when Federer plays his racquet makes little sound - like "Wud" rather than a "Thwap!" but I always attributed that to his low string tension.

Many very good players have said the K90 does not feel like a PS85, or not close enough for their tastes, anyway. I haven't played an 85 in so long that I don't really remember how it felt. Maybe I should pick up one of the TW reissues. Have you hit this re-release?The sound you hear is very much the sound of the strings.
Going out on a limb here: If you hold a racket with two fingers about one inch from the top of the grip (the "node"), and tap the hoop, you get a distinct sound which is unique to all rackets. If you do so with a PS 85 and a K90 you get basically the exact same sound both in timbre and pitch, and both with vertical and horisontal vibration, which to me is a very strong indication that the PS and K are extremely close in layup and composition (and stiffness). The same goes for the BLX, allthough the vibration is slightly dampened.
However, there are differences in weight distribution between various versions of the 85 and 90 that account for differences in feel, just as the difference in head size of course does.

donnaypro
03-01-2012, 09:48 AM
Since the Stevenson frame had the leather removed and replaced with a lighter synthetic grip, but still weighed over 360 grams I would suspect that it had lead under the bumper. Higher swingweight frames generally feel softer because they plow through the ball better. Lead at 12 o'clock also lowers the dynamic stiffness of the frame and deadens the upper hoop. So you're right - it "could" be weight distribution effects rather than layup.

You're right about the lead under the hoop, I believe federer also uses a little lead under the hoop. However, I removed all lead from the hoop when comparing the racquet. I made sure all specs were the same as retail to account for the weight distribution factors.

donnaypro
03-01-2012, 09:57 AM
Do you think the pro mold may have had silicone in the handle?

I have noticed that when Federer plays his racquet makes little sound - like "Wud" rather than a "Thwap!" but I always attributed that to his low string tension.

Many very good players have said the K90 does not feel like a PS85, or not close enough for their tastes, anyway. I haven't played an 85 in so long that I don't really remember how it felt. Maybe I should pick up one of the TW reissues. Have you hit this re-release?

Yes i've hit with the re-release...when compared to the old china version, the racquet is basically identical to the older version.

And yes, you are right...the K90 does not feel like the PS85.

I am not sure if there is silicone in the handle. There could be, but this would severely alter the weight of the racquet and make it extremely heavy. So i'm assuming there isn't, otherwise it would have been very difficult for me to bring this racquet to the same specs as retail.

You are absolutely right about the sound...this is what I was trying to explain in my earlier posts about the vibration differences...The pro mold just makes a different sound (very minimal) when compared to the retail 90's...this is one of the biggest give away's that something is different here.

Povl Carstensen
03-02-2012, 01:53 AM
Just to clear up the confusion. I have hit with the "pro mold" racquet that federer actually uses. I got the racquet from Alexandra Stevenson and this mold is only available to top pro's that are sponsored by wilson.
I've used all 3 paintjobs (k90, blx, n90) of the "pro mold"...they all play similar, the only difference is the paint job.Seems to be a bit confusion as to whether you have tried one or three rackets?
However, I removed all lead from the hoop when comparing the racquet. I made sure all specs were the same as retail to account for the weight distribution factors.So you took out lead from under the bumper, and put a new on? Changed the grip as well?
Sorry if I come across as a little skeptic...

donnaypro
03-02-2012, 01:17 PM
Seems to be a bit confusion as to whether you have tried one or three rackets?
So you took out lead from under the bumper, and put a new on? Changed the grip as well?
Sorry if I come across as a little skeptic...

I have the pro mold in all three painjobs...but the racquet is the same, just different paintjobs.

Why would I have to change the bumper to remove lead the racquet...I just removed the lead and put the same one on. And changed the synthetic grip with a leather grip...Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think that is a very labor intensive process.

movdqa
03-02-2012, 03:58 PM
> Why would I have to change the bumper to remove lead the
> racquet...I just removed the lead and put the same one on. And
> changed the synthetic grip with a leather grip...Correct me if i'm
> wrong, but I don't think that is a very labor intensive process.

On some racquets, taking off the bumper requires that you install a new one. The Prestige MP is an example.

leonidas1982
03-02-2012, 06:28 PM
The "pro mold" would prob be the softest feeling. Followed by the PS85 and then retail.

It is tough to explain the differences between the racquets, but one thing is quite noticeable...the PS85 and the "pro mold" seem to have very little vibration that comes from the racquet, while the retail 90's seem to almost require the use of a vibration dampener to cover the vibration/sound from the racquet.

Another comparison would be that the PS85 and the "pro mold" seem to go through the ball on contact in a more smoother way when compared to the retail version.

The "pro mold" basically feels like a PS85 with a 90 inch head size.

How does the "pro mold" compare to the KPS88? Could the KPS88 have a closer feel to the "pro mold" than retail tour-90s?

Fabfed
03-02-2012, 07:28 PM
I have the pro mold in all three painjobs...but the racquet is the same, just different paintjobs.

Why would I have to change the bumper to remove lead the racquet...I just removed the lead and put the same one on. And changed the synthetic grip with a leather grip...Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think that is a very labor intensive process.

That's cool! Can you post pictures of all 3 of your N90, K90 and BLX90 pro molds?

PrinceMoron
03-03-2012, 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaypro
However, I removed all lead from the hoop when comparing the racquet. I made sure all specs were the same as retail to account for the weight distribution factors.

Wasn't there a picture of Federers racquet up here last year showing lead UNDER the bumper, overlapping layers, so the bumper would have to come off to remove the lead.

I saw the "racquets" of all the WTF players 2010 behind glass at O2 Arena, for the painting with a racquet stuff, and they were not the real deal, but got auctioned off. Somewhere someone is suffering from the delusion that they won the genuine article. String jobs, grips were wrong.

Povl Carstensen
03-03-2012, 10:36 AM
That's cool! Can you post pictures of all 3 of your N90, K90 and BLX90 pro molds?That would be great. And from the string spacing of the N90 we could see whether they are the real deal.

donnaypro
03-04-2012, 07:54 PM
That's cool! Can you post pictures of all 3 of your N90, K90 and BLX90 pro molds?

I don't know how to post pics on here, but if you send me your email, I can email pics to you.

Povl Carstensen
03-05-2012, 02:47 AM
Perhaps Fabfed could post them here, or someone could inform donnaypro on how to post pictures here?

sixone90
03-05-2012, 03:45 AM
I don't know how to post pics on here, but if you send me your email, I can email pics to you.

Send the photos to narutovssasuke@gmail.com and I will post them for you.

Fabfed
03-05-2012, 04:18 AM
My email is fabfed09@hotmail.com, you can send to either of us and we'll post the pics for you.

ART ART
03-05-2012, 04:27 AM
My email is fabfed09@hotmail.com, you can send to either of us and we'll post the pics for you.

Have you already measure the specs of your new n-Code from Roger ?

donnaypro
03-09-2012, 10:00 AM
I'll send the pics to one of you guys this monday.

cork_screw
03-12-2012, 02:31 PM
k90. i have his custom mold. the k90 is closest.

JoelDali
03-12-2012, 02:38 PM
The transitional 90 that they made for Pete (PT90 prototype) is what Rogi has been using for 10 years or so. This is widely known amongst 5.0+ players.

Povl Carstensen
03-13-2012, 08:21 AM
One has to be a 5.0+ player to know this? Are there other secrets we sub 5.0 players should know about?

lbjames23
03-13-2012, 11:13 AM
One has to be a 5.0+ player to know this? Are there other secrets we sub 5.0 players should know about?

agreed ! plus that guy s only a 5.0+ player in the forum if you know what I mean.
I use k90 , good to know it s the closest thing. GO ROGER ! Booo fake 5.0+ player!
:twisted:

JoelDali
03-13-2012, 01:34 PM
Most 3.0 -3.5ers just don't have the capacity to accept slash comprehend PJ conspiracies. This is why they buy Youtek Speed sticks from low end sporting goodd stoars thinking they are Jokering(tm) slash GOATing(tm) but in actuality they are destroying their shoulder and crotchular regions with epic impunity.

SFrazeur
03-13-2012, 05:26 PM
One has to be a 5.0+ player to know this? Are there other secrets we sub 5.0 players should know about?

JoelDali is a resident satanist. . .er I mean satirist

-SF

suppawat
03-14-2012, 07:28 AM
Just to clear up the confusion. I have hit with the "pro mold" racquet that federer actually uses. I got the racquet from Alexandra Stevenson and this mold is only available to top pro's that are sponsored by wilson.

Unlike most of the collector's that own federer's match played racquets, I have actually gone out and hit with the "pro mold."

Here is what I found, but first a little about myself:

I am a 5-5-6.0 level teaching pro. And currently use the wilson 6.0 85.

The "pro mold" that federer uses is completely different than retail...the mold is the same, but the composition is very different.

The retail version has a very stiff feel to it, while the "pro mold" has a very soft and solid feel to it (very similar to the PS 85).

Something very different about the "pro mold" racquet is that it has a tendency to produce more topspin on all shots when compared to both the PS 85 and retail Blx 90 racquets.

The "pro mold" is also much more difficult to use compared to the retail version, and if proper technique is not used, shots tend to fly off the racquet.

Overall, fed's actual racquet is very different than retail.

I have similar experience when trying one of three Wilson 90 pro stock racquets. All of them are more difficult to play than retail K90 or PS90BLX.

The first one is 90 sq.in but in K95 paintjob with "Karbon Black" printing, and comes with black/red/white butt cap. It swings so heavy because of nearly even balance. This racquet feels very soft throughout entire frame. Sweet spot is small, power is so good. Ball feel is mute. More mute than retail Pro Staff 85 and K90.

https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p8vpqABky7lsTgl86er6KkdzrGKtiJ6WQQt0tktcpawGjgvj vktFTXH5RC1sp218-uO8uvB-TfnSlG7Mx6eLG5w/K90_Pro_Stock_03.JPG

The second one is in BLX90 paintjob and BLX butt cap. Flex is very similar to the first one. Sweet spot is small, power is great, one hand backhand can never be more powerful. Again ball feel is mute.

https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pOvYLGrmzj_3--w7iTHxOQUtISGgHV1A65DQ9sFcb4YuApe9fcpQCxfoDO-7a7oOEo4be22rNjPNJUKVEcFx-Ww/Wilson_BLX90_Pro_Stock_01.jpg

The last one is the most interesting. It comes in K90 paintjob with lead in head (10am - 2pm position) and above the handle, and black/red/white butt cap. Strung weight is around 363.5g and head light. The handle is custom mold. Shape and length are very friendly for one hand backhand. The handle is clearly shorter than my PS90BLX. The shaft is as flexy as previous two, but the main difference is stiffness in head. The hoop feels extremely stiff. Off-center hit can hurt elbow, but the racquet face remains so stable. Ball feel is super solid, but still mute. Sweet spot is small. Each swing requires very early preparation. When properly executing the shots, power is so dangerous.

https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pCHQpfURzCfbk5C5bmDpqFZWyHBTDTNk4rSrjGzDkLQyTrEi sKl95tlsjBU_zK4vtHevbnSrx5v7-F6B_yqm9Qg/Wilson_K_Six_One_Tour_Federer_Pro_Stock_10.JPG

https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pJ2dlJxVXLBDf0Vqd5ErORcLcfgGZOdO-hktxuVOOBhr1YSM16Nx9SJQ6f-4nwDXJEK4UIh0heOKNO90-FszdVA/Wilson_K90_Pro_Staff_90_BLX.JPG

Honestly, I don't think there is advanced material technology in those 3 racquets, just more graphite structure, foam filling in the frame, silicone in handle and weight distribution. For me, the retail K90 and PS90BLX are much more realistic to play - more maneuverability, more ball connection feel.

serchflores
03-14-2012, 09:12 AM
Does someone know where can I get a paintjob for my Wilson rackets??

thienzsch
03-14-2012, 10:00 AM
Dude, you don't have to post your question 4 times

serchflores
03-14-2012, 11:14 AM
Dude, you don't have to post your question 4 times

The "Post Quick Reply" button wasn't working dude...