PDA

View Full Version : Nadal was so quick to serve back then...


15_ounce
04-10-2010, 04:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvAGAdLArKY&feature=related

Looking at the video of Nadal vs Federer At Miami 2004, I was surprised to notice that Nadal took so little time each time he served. First serves.. he bounced the ball twice. He bounced the ball only once if it's a serve after a LET serve was called.

When did he start taking longer to serve?????? (fixing his hair locks, adjusting his underwear, bouncing the balls several times...) Was it his own decision to start this ritual or perhaps Uncle Toni asked him to take his time more before his serve?

But... in that video at 8:44, Nadal did pick his butt... and continue to do this occasionally during the match.

But it's so painful now to watch him with his serving routine... he should come back to his old serving routine... much quicker and not so annoying.

caulcano
04-10-2010, 04:41 AM
Over the years, he's developed OCD and a big tendency to get as much rest between points to recover from the previous point.

sdont
04-10-2010, 04:49 AM
Nadal didn't even pick his butt back then...

defrule
04-10-2010, 06:21 AM
Fast indeed.

Mustard
04-10-2010, 06:43 AM
Why are some people so fascinated by the speed Nadal plays at?

Djokovicfan4life
04-10-2010, 06:54 AM
Wow, his backhand was really no bueno by comparison back then. Some misses you'd almost never see today.

TennisFan008
04-10-2010, 10:37 AM
Uncle Toni told him to take his time between points and Rafa feels this helps his game.

Chadwixx
04-10-2010, 10:39 AM
Why are some people so fascinated by the speed Nadal plays at?

Because he is unwatchable at his current speed.

Djokovicfan4life
04-10-2010, 10:48 AM
Because he is unwatchable at his current speed.

Disagree completely. Hold on a second........




*adjusts water bottles*




*butt picks*




*brushes hair away*




What were we talking about again?

aprilfool
04-10-2010, 11:24 AM
Because he is unwatchable at his current speed.

What. he. said.

angiebaby
04-10-2010, 11:28 AM
Because he is unwatchable at his current speed.


Rafa, unwatchable? Sorry for you, I guess. :?


I'd rather watch Rafa and his OCD tendencies before serve than watch Djokovic bounce the ball a hundred times and then double fault. And I don't even mind Djokovic.

GasquetGOAT
04-10-2010, 11:38 AM
I'd rather watch Rafa and his OCD .....

I would suggest watch paint dry as a more zenful alternative.

dincuss
04-10-2010, 12:01 PM
He also had a platform stance on his serve back then....

Pink_Shirt
04-10-2010, 12:10 PM
lol, Nadal looks really short.

Djokovicfan4life
04-10-2010, 12:12 PM
I would suggest watch paint dry as a more zenful alternative.

Or a baseball game.

Justin Side
04-10-2010, 12:15 PM
Tennis really should bring in a clock that counts down from 25 seconds between each serve. If you don't serve on time, you lose a point. Time wasters like Djoker,Verdasco and Rafa would adjust quickly if forced to.

Mustard
04-10-2010, 01:30 PM
The time rule needs to be abolished. Some players are just slower than others.

dh003i
04-10-2010, 02:02 PM
Mustard, that is the dumbest suggestion I've ever heard. So, what, if one player gets tired out after a point, he can wait 5 minutes before serving the next time?

Some players are slower than others, that's fine. That's why there is latitude in how long players can take -- up to 25 seconds.

_maxi
04-10-2010, 02:05 PM
Why are some people so fascinated by the speed Nadal plays at?
Because he is a cheater. And the *******s deny that fact. So everytime that we find some evidence, we show it, so the *******s can someday assume it. Got it?

This thread is another example: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4306339

zak425
04-10-2010, 02:09 PM
I love when Soderling left to get a new racquet at Wimbledon as Rafa was going through the 2 minute routine before serve. Classic.

OKUSA
04-10-2010, 02:24 PM
make it 30 seconds and put a clock out there

if you can't adjust your head after 30 seconds and serve then you shouldn't be playing on the atp or wta. because 95/100 it's mental rather than physical, and even then wasting time because you're gassed shouldn't be a reason either

Mustard
04-10-2010, 02:33 PM
Mustard, that is the dumbest suggestion I've ever heard. So, what, if one player gets tired out after a point, he can wait 5 minutes before serving the next time?

Some players are slower than others, that's fine. That's why there is latitude in how long players can take -- up to 25 seconds.

25 seconds is too quick. Some players regularly go over that when they are clearly playing at a pace that's their normal game. The endless moaning about Nadal proves this.

On second thoughts, rather than abolish the rule, increase it to 1 minute.

OKUSA
04-10-2010, 02:39 PM
increasing it to 1 minute would be the equivalent of a commercial break between each serve, i would never watch tennis again

Mustard
04-10-2010, 02:40 PM
increasing it to 1 minute would be the equivalent of a commercial break between each serve, i would never watch tennis again

Nadal sometimes takes over 50 seconds between serves. Are you still watching?

iamke55
04-10-2010, 02:45 PM
Mustard sounds like the TW term for a Muster fanboy...

OKUSA
04-10-2010, 02:46 PM
he doesn't take 50 seconds every time, if it was elevated to 1 minute then he would take that 1 minute every time because he can. i'm sure he doesn't take 50 seconds every time because eventually the umpire would have to call something

Carsomyr
04-10-2010, 02:48 PM
Nadal sometimes takes over 50 seconds between serves. Are you still watching?

Yes, and that is a disgusting abuse of the rules. I can't help that you're blinded by your fanboyism when even Nadal fans like Tennisandmusic and thenamelessone think 50 seconds is far too long and technically cheating.

Of course, complaining (which numerous fans, players, and even commentators have done) can only do so much, and it is up to the umpires to curtail this nonsense. If they don't, Nadal is free to do as he pleases.

Mustard
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Mustard sounds like the TW term for a Muster fanboy...

It's a term I thought up. Rather a good pun :)

he doesn't take 50 seconds every time, if it was elevated to 1 minute then he would take that 1 minute every time because he can. i'm sure he doesn't take 50 seconds every time because eventually the umpire would have to call something

So you're accusing Nadal of using gamesmanship rather than him just playing his normal game?

OKUSA
04-10-2010, 02:51 PM
i'm accusing him of breaking the rules because it isn't enforced strictly. most of his serves are under 30 seconds, for the times over 30 (after a long rally, or for a big point) i can't sympathize with him because he's suppose to be the best in the world and not need time to gather himself

_maxi
04-10-2010, 02:53 PM
25 seconds is too quick. Some players regularly go over that when they are clearly playing at a pace that's their normal game. The endless moaning about Nadal proves this.

On second thoughts, rather than abolish the rule, increase it to 1 minute.
Too quick? no.. 20 seconds is enought for many many players (Federer GOAT for example). If grinders abuse of the time rule they should be sanctioned. Tired? your fault, dont make your opponent wait.

ninman
04-10-2010, 02:57 PM
I remember Murray asked the umpire if he would be checking Nadal for the time and the umpire said he was "aware that Nadal sometimes pushes it". If I was Murray I would gone totally crazy.

No he doens't just sometimes push it, he regularly breaks it, and they don't give him the appropriate punishment. Occasionally you'll hear the umpire warn him for time violations, but then they don't follow it up with a penalty point because Nadal gives them a dirty look.

He would be told by me quite frankly "either follow the rules or get off the court".

Halba
04-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Too quick? no.. 20 seconds is enought for many many players (Federer GOAT for example). If grinders abuse of the time rule they should be sanctioned. Tired? your fault, dont make your opponent wait.

yes. federer is good for viewing he never wastes any time, he wants to demolish his opponents quickly

Mustard
04-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Too quick? no.. 20 seconds is enought for many many players (Federer GOAT for example). If grinders abuse of the time rule they should be sanctioned. Tired? your fault, dont make your opponent wait.

That's Federer. Other players need more time. I don't see why players should be sanctioned for taking time to compose themselves.

ninman
04-10-2010, 03:00 PM
That's Federer. Other players need more time.

They are professional athletes and they know the rules of their sport. Nobody is stopping them practising serving in under 20 seconds.

OKUSA
04-10-2010, 03:07 PM
That's Federer. Other players need more time. I don't see why players should be sanctioned for taking time to compose themselves.

because 5 hour marathon matches can be 10 hour marathon matches with what you are trying to implement, i doubt the players who don't abuse the rule would want to be on the court 50% longer just because the other guy likes to take his time.

grand slams would have to go for 3 weeks because the time it takes to complete 2 matches could take up the whole day of play.

people wouldn't watch tennis on tv, networks wouldn't want to put it on tv because nobody would watch it.

seriously, everything is wrong about taking more than 30 seconds between serves. if the best players in the world can't compose themselves in 30 seconds or less between serves then they shouldn't be the best, leave that for the people who have short term memory loss (davydenko and federer)

Semi-Pro
04-10-2010, 03:08 PM
make it 30 seconds and put a clock out there

if you can't adjust your head after 30 seconds and serve then you shouldn't be playing on the atp or wta. because 95/100 it's mental rather than physical, and even then wasting time because you're gassed shouldn't be a reason either

Couldn't have said it any better.

Something needs to be done about this excess time wasting. Soon the ATP will become like the WTA and we will have 4 hour best of 3 set matches.

Mustard
04-10-2010, 03:11 PM
Couldn't have said it any better.

Something needs to be done about this excess time wasting. Soon the ATP will become like the WTA and we will have 4 hour best of 3 set matches.

Too late. We already have (2009 Madrid: Nadal vs. Djokovic).

Semi-Pro
04-10-2010, 03:18 PM
Double post.

Semi-Pro
04-10-2010, 03:18 PM
Too late. We already have (2009 Madrid: Nadal vs. Djokovic).

Of course. One of the two biggest time wasters on the ATP, what do you except? Not to mention it was on clay so extended rallies + two tie break sets didn't make it any shorter.

Mustard
04-10-2010, 03:22 PM
Of course. One of the two biggest time wasters on the ATP, what do you except? Not to mention it was on clay so extended rallies + two tie break sets didn't make it any shorter.

It was an epic match. Gripping. Not exactly the sort of match that will turn people away from tennis just because both players took their time.

Chadwixx
04-10-2010, 03:29 PM
This is why we now have boring baseline play, guys can just rest inbetween points then play 40 stroke ralleys and rest again.

Semi-Pro
04-10-2010, 03:29 PM
It was an epic match. Gripping. Not exactly the sort of match that will turn people away from tennis just because both players took their time.

Fully agree, but certainly it was an exception as both players were playing out of their mind. Probably one of the best 3 set matches of all time. However, imagine watching match after match that is around 4 hours, but not as high caliber. I think anyone would probably rip their eyes out of their sockets

OKUSA
04-10-2010, 03:40 PM
This is why we now have boring baseline play, guys can just rest inbetween points then play 40 stroke ralleys and rest again.

watch any bjorn borg match and you can see he would have rallies with connors or lendl that would go on forever, yet when it was over he would serve within 15 seconds. it was unreal, and the reason why even though those matches had on average longer points they never went 5+ hours because they never took time between serves

P_Agony
04-10-2010, 03:55 PM
It was an epic match. Gripping. Not exactly the sort of match that will turn people away from tennis just because both players took their time.

Well, speak for yourself, even my parents who are huge Nadal fans were upset with the time wasting in the match, and they were AT the stadium LIVE rooting for their hero.

Most players fnish 5 sets quicker than that.

piece
04-10-2010, 04:20 PM
That's Federer. Other players need more time. I don't see why players should be sanctioned for taking time to compose themselves.

Seriously? How about because it's against the rules? You can't just say different players need different length breaks between points so they can play their very best. That same reasoning could justify absolutely absurd acts on the part of the players. Take, for example, a match between Seppi and Nadal, should Seppi be allowed to use the doubles alley because that will allow him to play his very best game and probably beat Nadal, something he wouldn't otherwise be able to do. No, because it's against the rules of singles play to hit the ball in the doubles alley. It is completely irrelevant that if you were allowed to do so you would play better. Just as it's irrelevant that Nadal plays better when taking longer between points.

Rules is rules.

Mustard
04-10-2010, 04:22 PM
Seriously? How about because it's against the rules? You can't just say different players need different length breaks between points so they can play their very best. That same reasoning could justify absolutely absurd acts on the part of the players. Take, for example, a match between Seppi and Nadal, should Seppi be allowed to use the doubles alley because that will allow him to play his very best game and probably beat Nadal, something he wouldn't otherwise be able to do. No, because it's against the rules of singles play to hit the ball in the doubles alley. It is completely irrelevant that if you were allowed to do so you would play better. Just as it's irrelevant that Nadal plays better when taking longer between points.

Rules is rules.

That's a ridiculous comparison :roll:

piece
04-10-2010, 04:43 PM
That's a ridiculous comparison :roll:

Hmm really? Both are instances of breaking the rules to obtain an advantage for your game. Perhaps you would like to explain the relevant disanalogy

Mustard
04-10-2010, 04:52 PM
Hmm really? Both are instances of breaking the rules to obtain an advantage for your game. Perhaps you would like to explain the relevant disanalogy

The fact that in many sports, players are allowed to play at their own pace without the threat of a sanction. I mean, so what if Nadal takes 30 seconds instead of 25. Big deal. But your comparison is saying "what if the actual rules of playing singles' tennis were changed". I don't see how you can compare such a thing to composing yourself before serving.

All-rounder
04-10-2010, 05:09 PM
Couldn't have said it any better.

Something needs to be done about this excess time wasting. Soon the ATP will become like the WTA and we will have 4 hour best of 3 set matches.
That already happened remember nadal vs djokovic Madrid semi final 2009. When ppl were saying it was the best 3 set match of the year yet in reality the match was like 35-40 mins of actual tennis.

piece
04-10-2010, 05:09 PM
The fact that in many sports, players are allowed to play at their own pace without the threat of a sanction. I mean, so what if Nadal takes 30 seconds instead of 25. Big deal. But your comparison is saying "what if the actual rules of playing singles' tennis were changed". I don't see how you can compare such a thing to composing yourself before serving.

Umm the time allowed between serves is part of the rules of singles tennis (at least on the ATP circuit). Composing yourself before serving breaks those rules, just as using the doubles alley in singles breaks the rules. So you're hypothesising about the rules of singles tennis being changed as well. It IS a big deal if Nadal takes only 5 more seconds than is allowed. If Nadal hit the ball into the doubles alley by just a millimetre would you say "that's ok no big deal". Who are you to say which rules should be obeyed, and how do you justify your opinion that only some rules should be allowed to be broken rather than others? Alot of other people in this thread seem to agree that the time allowed between serves is a very important rule indeed.

And other sports have different rules, so it's no surprise that in other sports players are allowed to do different things. It doesn't help you at all to appeal to different sports here, it's like saying doubles players can use the doubles alleys so why can't singles players. The answer: because they have different rules.

Semi-Pro
04-10-2010, 05:11 PM
That already happened remember nadal vs djokovic Madrid semi final 2009. When ppl were saying it was the best 3 set match of the year yet in reality the match was like 35-40 mins of actual tennis.

Yah I remember. Read above :mrgreen:

mr_eko
04-10-2010, 06:13 PM
It's great to see Nadal playing when he was younger. He was just so damn fast!

Lsmkenpo
04-10-2010, 06:44 PM
The fact that in many sports, players are allowed to play at their own pace without the threat of a sanction. I mean, so what if Nadal takes 30 seconds instead of 25. Big deal. But your comparison is saying "what if the actual rules of playing singles' tennis were changed". I don't see how you can compare such a thing to composing yourself before serving.

What sports name them? The rule is there for a reason, making an opponent wait on the line to receive is a way to break their concentration. Nadal doesn't need time to recover, complete nonsense. He is bending the rules to gain an advantage, on serve. Why do you think he pulls the stall job on every big point of a match? Big deal? Do you play tennis at all? Nice job minimizing the amount of time he takes more like 40-50+ seconds on break points, 30 seconds yeah right. If he only took 30 seconds I don't think many players would have a problem with it.

MLB pitchers are fined for taking too long in between pitches, this is the closet
sport to tennis in relation to serve and return. They do it to break the batters concentration just like Uncle Toni has taught Nadal to use the same tactic in tennis.

ronalditop
04-10-2010, 06:54 PM
I sometimes play with a guy who loves to waste time and make people wait when serving. When he's playing good, he takes 15-20 seconds, but when he's in trouble, like facing BP, he takes like about 40 seconds. It's really annoying.

sh@de
04-10-2010, 07:03 PM
Nadal sometimes takes over 50 seconds between serves. Are you still watching?

Easy enough to say, no.

You're so blinded by your fanboyism it's amazing.

Lsmkenpo
04-10-2010, 07:16 PM
Once you get the receiver thinking about how long it is taking to serve,while you have them standing on the line waiting, you break their concentration.

This is the exact reason Tsonga complained about it the last match against Nadal, it would be a little different if Nadal wasn't standing on the line doing his stall act, the receiver wouldn't have to wait in a ready position for 40+ seconds and get annoyed.

They should start reviewing matches and issuing fines for stall tactics, start fining these players 5k every time they stall to cheat. Problem would be solved in a hurry. In MLB a pitcher is given 12 sec. to pitch once a batter enters the box, otherwise he is fined, tennis needs to incorporate the same rule, if you stand on the line more than 25 sec. making the receiver wait in a ready position, you are cheating and should be fined.

sh@de
04-10-2010, 08:23 PM
Once you get the receiver thinking about how long it is taking to serve,while you have them standing on the line waiting, you break their concentration.

This is the exact reason Tsonga complained about it the last match against Nadal, it would be a little different if Nadal wasn't standing on the line doing his stall act, the receiver wouldn't have to wait in a ready position for 40+ seconds and get annoyed.

They should start reviewing matches and issuing fines for stall tactics, start fining these players 5k every time they stall to cheat. Problem would be solved in a hurry. In MLB a pitcher is given 12 sec. to pitch once a batter enters the box, otherwise he is fined, tennis needs to incorporate the same rule, if you stand on the line more than 25 sec. making the receiver wait in a ready position, you are cheating and should be fined.

Yes and no.... I like the concept of penalty after time limit, but I would suggest two different things. First, make the 25 second limit up to 30 seconds, because some players these days do like to take a bit more than 25, and I don't think 30 is too long. Secondly, I'd rather the penalty not be some sort of monetary one. I'd rather it be a point penalty, i.e. if you don't serve in 30 secs, you lose the point. That's gotta have a more profound effect on speeding the game up I think.

Justdoit10
04-10-2010, 08:29 PM
Yes and no.... I like the concept of penalty after time limit, but I would suggest two different things. First, make the 25 second limit up to 30 seconds, because some players these days do like to take a bit more than 25, and I don't think 30 is too long. Secondly, I'd rather the penalty not be some sort of monetary one. I'd rather it be a point penalty, i.e. if you don't serve in 30 secs, you lose the point. That's gotta have a more profound effect on speeding the game up I think.
Point penalty would be absolutely terrible. When the pros are playing a competitive match, there attention isnt always firmly focused on the amount of time they will take before their serves. Sometimes players will forget about the limit and lose points at the worst possible time. Imagine someone at a grand slam final in the 5th set facing 30-40 break point and losing the point because they arrived at the line in 32 seconds rather than 30.

Justdoit10
04-10-2010, 08:32 PM
Seriously? How about because it's against the rules? You can't just say different players need different length breaks between points so they can play their very best. That same reasoning could justify absolutely absurd acts on the part of the players. Take, for example, a match between Seppi and Nadal, should Seppi be allowed to use the doubles alley because that will allow him to play his very best game and probably beat Nadal, something he wouldn't otherwise be able to do. No, because it's against the rules of singles play to hit the ball in the doubles alley. It is completely irrelevant that if you were allowed to do so you would play better. Just as it's irrelevant that Nadal plays better when taking longer between points.

Rules is rules.
That truly is a highly ridiculous comparison.

Mansewerz
04-10-2010, 08:41 PM
The fact that in many sports, players are allowed to play at their own pace without the threat of a sanction. I mean, so what if Nadal takes 30 seconds instead of 25. Big deal. But your comparison is saying "what if the actual rules of playing singles' tennis were changed". I don't see how you can compare such a thing to composing yourself before serving.

Basketball has a shot clock. They cannot play to the pace they're comfortable with. I do not see anything wrong with having a 25 second shot clock. And it's true that Nadal likes to intimidate when called out for his time violations.

piece
04-10-2010, 09:58 PM
Point penalty would be absolutely terrible. When the pros are playing a competitive match, there attention isnt always firmly focused on the amount of time they will take before their serves. Sometimes players will forget about the limit and lose points at the worst possible time. Imagine someone at a grand slam final in the 5th set facing 30-40 break point and losing the point because they arrived at the line in 32 seconds rather than 30.

Why not put a timer on, or near, the scoreboard? Then they would have no excuse for not paying attention because it's right there in front of them. And you can't retort with the "if it's a big point they'll be so focused that they might still forget even though the timer is on the scoreboard" because their being aware that they're playing a big point implies that they're aware of the score - which is on the scoreboard, so no excuse for not being aware of the timer which is also on the scoreboard. Just a thought.

That truly is a highly ridiculous comparison.

I'm yet to see anyone explain why.

sh@de
04-11-2010, 06:13 AM
Point penalty would be absolutely terrible. When the pros are playing a competitive match, there attention isnt always firmly focused on the amount of time they will take before their serves. Sometimes players will forget about the limit and lose points at the worst possible time. Imagine someone at a grand slam final in the 5th set facing 30-40 break point and losing the point because they arrived at the line in 32 seconds rather than 30.

Ok fair enough that it would be horrible if they lost a point at such an important time. But I don't think the whole idea of point penalties is bad. The point of it is to make sure players obey the rules. Maybe a better method would be to give players 5 or 10 second warnings before their time limit is reached, then you have absolutely no excuse for not serving before time is up. Other than this, can you actually see a viable way for deterring people from wasting time? I can't...

mzzmuaa
04-11-2010, 07:56 AM
it is pretty unwatchable, at least for me.
the djokovic-nadal madrid 09 match was one of the best matches of the year, but only after jenny cut it down.