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cmendez79
04-28-2010, 06:50 AM
Hi,

Whats the difference between stringing a full bed with "##" tension and having like 55 mains and 57 crosses.

I mean, whats the technical answer for this, is it better the difference in tensions?

I used to play with 60 lbs black code full bed, and now Iīm trying 54 M and 57 C, but it doesnt feel right.

So i want to know whats the technical gain in having different tensions in mains and crosses.

Thanks guys!!

Ambivalent
04-28-2010, 07:06 AM
Looser mains are supposed to move more, which affects the playability. I think stringing different tensions is complete bull though. If you string a cross at a higher tension, its contact with the mains will also affect the tension.

Irvin
04-28-2010, 07:11 AM
I am not a big fan of looser mains or crosses unless I am using a hybrid. Now you know though that you do not like the crosses higher in tension. Try the crosses lower in tension and see if you like it or not. You will never get the answer to your question from the forum you have to use trial and error to see what it feels like to you.

Irvin

jrod
04-28-2010, 07:29 AM
I am not a big fan of looser mains or crosses unless I am using a hybrid. Now you know though that you do not like the crosses higher in tension. Try the crosses lower in tension and see if you like it or not. You will never get the answer to your question from the forum you have to use trial and error to see what it feels like to you.

Irvin

Agreed. There is no universal rule of thumb that works here. In the case of hybrids, it's certainly string dependent. I use a gut hybrid with a poly cross. I determined after some experimentation that it is desirable to string the poly cross a couple of lbs lower than the gut mains. Why? Many poly string manufacturers recommend stringing 10% lower which would put the crosses at least 5 lbs lower than the mains. However, poly loses tension considerably faster than gut. If you look at how poly loses tension there is a fairly sharp reduction within 30 minutes of hitting and then the residual rate of tension loss is less after this point. So I backed off on the 10% recommended reduction to compensate for this initial tension loss and ended up with a couple of lbs difference between my mains and crosses.

Note that if I changed string types the tension rules would very likely change as well.

Lambsscroll
04-28-2010, 07:31 AM
Hi,

Whats the difference between stringing a full bed with "##" tension and having like 55 mains and 57 crosses.

I mean, whats the technical answer for this, is it better the difference in tensions?

I used to play with 60 lbs black code full bed, and now Iīm trying 54 M and 57 C, but it doesnt feel right.

So i want to know whats the technical gain in having different tensions in mains and crosses.

Thanks guys!!

You hit it right on the head when you said it didn't feel right. I interpret this as saying the feedback wasn't desirable. You can take this to the extreme. Would a racket play differently with mains at 50 and the cross at 70 then if it were strung at 60 pounds for both mains and cross?

cmendez79
04-28-2010, 08:28 AM
Of couse it would not be the same, to string 50 m and 70 c to 60 full.

I made the question because someone in this forum was telling something about the sweet spot, i donīt remember if it was increased or decreased by the different tensions....

So maybe there is something "technical" for the difference.

But the only thing that I can come up with is when hybring, because otherwise I donīt know why to do it.

I use Black Code 17, 54 M and 57 C, but for some reason I donīt liket a lot, or I donīt feel it right while hitting.

Iīm going to try to string full bed @57 to see if I that tension feels better.

But I wanted to make sure what other people was thinking about this...

Also I was putting more lbs to the crosses because I was using a X-2 stringing machine and my Head Prestige was comming out a little rounder...but now I have a X-6FC so I suppose I donīt "have to" put the extra punds to the crosses....

Anymore inputs would be appreciate.

Thanks!!!

el sergento
04-28-2010, 10:13 AM
Hi,

Whats the difference between stringing a full bed with "##" tension and having like 55 mains and 57 crosses.

I mean, whats the technical answer for this, is it better the difference in tensions?

I used to play with 60 lbs black code full bed, and now Iīm trying 54 M and 57 C, but it doesnt feel right.

So i want to know whats the technical gain in having different tensions in mains and crosses.

Thanks guys!!

It's mostly to do wuth hybrids. A poly at tension X feels very different from a soft nylon or syn gut at the same tension.

Depending on the combination of strings, I go 1-2 lower on the crosses because I like a softer feel to my string bed. Going lower on the crosses also helps me out with my shoulder injury.

Similarly, going higher on the crosses will harden the stringbed and make it feel hard, almost harsh. That could be why you didn't like it.

Either way, experimenting is fun, try different setups to see what works for you.

Tennis_Man
04-28-2010, 01:37 PM
It's weird I tried stringing different tensions on mains and crosses.

I normally use 62lbs. One racket i used 64 mains and 59 cross. It felt really weird. It was firm but also had a hint of give. Idk how to explain it. I still have a trouble understanding this.

But after a lil while the strings started to balance itself out. So you would only feel this for maybe an hour?

big bang
04-28-2010, 01:43 PM
when stringing full bed of poly I string crosses 2 lbs lower than mains, but on a hybrid with poly/mains and multi/crosses I string both at same tension because the multi is softer. I feel the ball is sinking deeper into the stringbed on the hybrid and I can generate even more spin..
I think stringing crosses higher than mains creates a more solid stringbed somehow, I used to do this with full multi.

JT_2eighty
04-28-2010, 02:09 PM
Of couse it would not be the same, to string 50 m and 70 c to 60 full.

I made the question because someone in this forum was telling something about the sweet spot, i donīt remember if it was increased or decreased by the different tensions....

So maybe there is something "technical" for the difference.

From what I've read about your sweetspot question, if using the same string for mains and cross, tighter crosses should elongate the sweetspot from head to throat, while at the same time narrowing it along that elongation.

Conversely, looser crosses will widen the sweetspot towards 3 and 9, while also decrease the "length" of the sweetspot from throat to head.

So, if you tend to hit the ball more towards the top, you may want to add just a pound or two increase on the crosses. If you tend to miss the sweetspot and hit more balls towards 3 and 9, you may want to decrease a pound or two on the crosses. Once you go for too drastic of a difference between the two, like 5+ pounds or something, you may get these "odd feeling" stringbeds. I've also had experiences with odd feedbacks or resonances in a frame that normally aren't there when strung at more even tensions. For example, strung one frame with 52m/c gut, and another with 52m/58c: the evenly strung racquet felt great, played solid, etc. The 52/58 played and felt more like 58 full, but also came with a weird vibration effect I never felt before. I decided not to even try the reverse.

The other factor on differing tensions, in addition to the already explained hybrid reasons, is that the crosses are shorter than the mains, so *most* people will string their crosses a pound or two less than mains, so that the net effect is actually an even stringbed.

Lastly, Irvin is right on! Trial and error is your last resort, your results may vary from mine or some other guys'. Personally, I string crosses 1-2 pounds looser than mains, so that the stringbed feels even, I never have adverse warping, feel, or sounds, and most likely, a single pound difference is practically stringing them both equal. Final thought: since the crosses are "locking in" the mains, so to speak, and you string 54m/57c, the overall feel *I would think* would be closer to the feel of a full 57 than a full 54, and because of that, makes sense that you can effectively "shape" your sweetspot A LITTLE BIT, not much, by varying main/cross tensions.

Pwned
04-28-2010, 02:13 PM
What is the maximum difference in tension between mains and crosses before warping or damaging a frame comes into mind? I think it'd have to be pretty substantial but I don't know.

JT_2eighty
04-28-2010, 02:49 PM
What is the maximum difference in tension between mains and crosses before warping or damaging a frame comes into mind? I think it'd have to be pretty substantial but I don't know.

Depends on the frame, a more flexible frame will start to warp much sooner than more stiff ones. In my flexy pt630, I once tried the "super-cheap" gut/poly combo: Unifibre gut mains with BBecker explosive poly crosses (about $11 a stick). Figured even if it broke/died relatively fast, could be a good budget option.

Strung mains 52 and crosses 55 (because I had a feeling the becker strings would drop tension badly, and they dropped a TON)

After about 8 or 9 matches, my favorite PT630 was almost circular in its head shape, it seemed as though the gut was still holding strong while the poly must have been low 40s or even worse by then.

So, in the end, i think it depends on the flexibility of the racquet, and since mine registers somewhere in the mid-50s on RDC, it didn't take much. I bet babolats and wilsons could take more before warping.

Racer41c
04-28-2010, 04:17 PM
Hi,

Whats the difference between stringing a full bed with "##" tension and having like 55 mains and 57 crosses.

I mean, whats the technical answer for this, is it better the difference in tensions?

I used to play with 60 lbs black code full bed, and now Iīm trying 54 M and 57 C, but it doesnt feel right.

So i want to know whats the technical gain in having different tensions in mains and crosses.

Thanks guys!!

I much prefer the mains tighter than the crosses. Even if I use the same string I like 60/56 better than 58/58.

LPShanet
04-28-2010, 07:41 PM
Hi,

Whats the difference between stringing a full bed with "##" tension and having like 55 mains and 57 crosses.

I mean, whats the technical answer for this, is it better the difference in tensions?

I used to play with 60 lbs black code full bed, and now Iīm trying 54 M and 57 C, but it doesnt feel right.

So i want to know whats the technical gain in having different tensions in mains and crosses.

Thanks guys!!

Small differences in tension will make NO difference at all. Those who tell you they perceive otherwise are mostly imagining it, as there's no scientific proof at all. In general, the perceived performance of a string bed is a net effect, and the main factor is overall stringbed stiffness. To maximize the performance of any racquet, the general goal is to make all of the strings work together and at the same level. There is no inherent benefit to using different tensions in mains and crosses at all.

That said, there are three areas where differential tension may be relevant:

1. In hybrid string jobs, where the strings have different properties (such as elasticity), differential tension can be used to make the two strings FEEL like they're at the same tension, since using the same actual tension will produce an uneven result. This is why poly hybrids often use differential tension, since poly is less elastic than most multis and than natural gut. The purpose is to make them feel and respond the same, even though you use different tensions to do it.

2. When a racquet has much longer mains than crosses, sometimes differential tension can be used to make the stringbed deflect more evenly. The effective tension of a longer string is less than that of a shorter one, so the differential again makes them respond evenly.

3. Some manufacturers (e.g. Yonex) suggest differential tension (usually because of reason #2, above), and while it may not play any differently, it's never a bad idea to follow manufacturer recommendations, if only to preserve your warranty.

Long story short, if you're playing with a full bed of the string, the racquet is a fairly standard shape, and the manufacturer hasn't told you to use differential tensions, there is absolutely no reason to do it. I'd suggest stringing your full bed at a single tension and not thinking so much about it. Generally, most issues of this type are all about mental aspects and not much about actual physical differences. However, if you're insistent on using differential tension with a single string at all, you should definitely be doing the mains tighter than the crosses, and not the other way around, as the mains are longer. Making the crosses tighter only further exacerbates the differences in effective length/tension.

LPShanet
04-28-2010, 07:47 PM
What is the maximum difference in tension between mains and crosses before warping or damaging a frame comes into mind? I think it'd have to be pretty substantial but I don't know.

In most cases it won't matter, because you'll be outside the manufacturer's recommended tension range with at least one of the strings before you get to that point. So the frame will be at risk anyway. But obviously it depends greatly on the particular frame as no two are alike. And since there's no benefit to doing it, why would you need to find out? :)

Pwned
04-28-2010, 08:04 PM
In most cases it won't matter, because you'll be outside the manufacturer's recommended tension range with at least one of the strings before you get to that point. So the frame will be at risk anyway. But obviously it depends greatly on the particular frame as no two are alike. And since there's no benefit to doing it, why would you need to find out? :)

I don't need to find out. Can you prove there is no benefit?

jrod
04-29-2010, 04:03 AM
I don't need to find out. Can you prove there is no benefit?

I agree with LPShanet here. The hybrid set-up I described in my initial post effectively accomplishes the #1 objective he mentioned, namely to get the mains and crosses to have a balanced response. This set-up was arrived at after years of experimentation with different tensions, string types, etc.

My sense is there is absolutely nothing LPShanet or anyone else here can offer in the way of "proof" that will convince you of the validity any particular armchair theory or the superiority of any given set-up. It would seem to me that if you want "proof" that will ultimately satisfy your own curiosity, it would be much more productive for you to engage in your own experimentation with strings and tension. Everyone has different perceptions of what works for them. Couple that with the differences in frames and how they respond uniquely to different string types and set-ups and you have a situation for which there is no universally ideal set-up. If you are truly curious, you will probably enjoy the process of discovering what works best for your game.

TennisCJC
04-29-2010, 07:07 AM
If you hybrid a poly with a softer string such as syn gut, multi, or nat gut; drop the poly 2-4 lbs no matter if the poly is the main or coross (x). This is to offset for the difference in string stiffness and get a uniform feel from the string bed.

If you use a the same string in the mains and x's; there are 2 "theories" to get a consistent string bed. Theory 1: The x's are shorter, so use 2-3 lbs lower on the x's to make them feel similar to the tighter mains. Theory 2: the x's actually increase the tension of the mains as you tension the x's because pulling the x's puts additional pressure on the mains - with theory 2, you should string the x's 2-4lbs tighter than the mains so they end up consistent with the increased tension on the mains.

I use multi or gut in the mains at 58lbs and poly x's at 56lbs. With good string, it plays great. I adjust both mains and x's down 2lbs in the winter due to the cold. I have used theory 2 above with success too.

Honestly, these are guidelines and it's best just to try it and see what you like.

ethebull
04-29-2010, 08:26 AM
I’ve wondered about how the stringing process itself ultimately determines a difference in tensions. Say we string the mains at 60 pounds tension. They are B-line straight through the process

_______________
_______________
_______________
_______________

Then we weave in crosses at 60 pounds. The first cross pulls straight and deflects the mains by the its inherent width. The second cross pulls nearly as straight, but causes the first cross to zigzag more, and adds an additional kink to the mains, and so on…

When the stringing is complete and tied off, the mains are now tighter than the crosses, even though each string was pulled at 60 pounds. This can be verified by pressing firmly on a section of string near the frame, say at 12 and 9 o’clock. The main string at 12 will feel firmer than the cross at 9, even though the unsupported length is longer on the main. This difference in tension is inherent in the stringing process.

LPShanet
04-29-2010, 12:34 PM
I don't need to find out. Can you prove there is no benefit?

As jrod points out, a proof would be an exercise in physics that is inappropriately technical for these forums. But on a basic level, the theory behind a string bed is that it acts to redirect force against it. As such, the string plane will be most effective when it works as one unit. Differential effective tension won't help this cause as it simply means that some strings will bear more of the load and will be working harder than others...not "doing their share" so to speak. The whole practice of racquet stringing is based on getting as even a response as possible from the racquet, and differential practical tension works against this goal, if it has any effect at all.

So unless you want your racquet to play unevenly, or have some theory about what it might accomplish to string at differential tension, it seems that the proof needed is why you WOULD get some benefit from it. Ultimately, the burden of proof is on those who suggest that there might be a benefit. Until we can see a reason to string with differential practical tension, and prove that reason, I think most of the tennis world will keeping trying to achieve an even string bed.

Chezbeeno
04-29-2010, 04:05 PM
I don't really know a whole lot about strings but I thought maybe something like, with different tensions higher/lower you get the control of having a higher tension but the soft feeling of a low tension? But then again I know very little about stringing so that might be completely ridiculous.

ClubHoUno
04-30-2010, 08:07 PM
I use hybrids of softer mains (nat gut and multi) and stiffer crosses (poly) and as such need to string the softer string 3-4-5 lbs higher than the stiffer cross poly.

If not I will mess with the shape/proportions of my raqcquet, and that's not so good......

don_nguyen11490
04-30-2010, 11:14 PM
I would imagine the only real benefit would be in getting more access to spin by pulling the mains tighter without having to deal with an overly stiff stringbed.

Say for example you kept your strings at a low tension to keep it easy to play with but you find that you just need a bit more spin to keep the ball in. Tensioning the mains a bit more would do just that while letting you keep it easy to play. If you just raised the tension on both mains and crosses you'd have to make up for a big difference in power and playability because the string bed would stiffen up much more.