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TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 07:00 PM
Wow, I just realized that their H2H to this date is absolutely symmetrical:
By winner:
N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

It means something...

http://www.arnadal.no/film/images/closeenc.jpg

JuliusWinto
05-22-2010, 07:04 PM
What happens next?

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 07:06 PM
What happens next?
Exactly! I'm scared. Scared I tell ya! :)

ruerooo
05-22-2010, 07:13 PM
Exactly! I'm scared. Scared I tell ya! :)

You know I love me some FEDAL finals, but is there a possibility you've been watching a little too much DaVinci Code, in addition to your Close Encounters?
:-D

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 07:16 PM
You know I love me some FEDAL finals, but is there a possibility you've been watching a little too much DaVinci Code, in addition to your Close Encounters?
:-D
LOL. No. I haven't even seen DaVinci Code (or read the book.) I'm a little familiar with it though.

Tennis_Monk
05-22-2010, 08:03 PM
N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-
N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N-?

OR

N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-
N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

Not seeing the symmetry. how is it symmetrical?

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 08:20 PM
N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-
N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N-?

OR

N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-
N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

Not seeing the symmetry. how is it symmetrical?
If you read the list that I have in the first post forwards and backwards, it is the same list.
A symmetrical list doesn't need to have an even number of elements.

bolo
05-22-2010, 08:23 PM
Wow, I just realized that their H2H to this date is absolutely symmetrical:
By winner:
N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

It means something...

http://www.arnadal.no/film/images/closeenc.jpg

It means Nadal is awesome. :)

Serendipitous
05-22-2010, 08:24 PM
It means Nadal is awesome. :)

I agree with this human being.

Tennis_Monk
05-22-2010, 08:25 PM
If you read the list that I have in the first post forwards and backwards, it is the same list.
A symmetrical list doesn't need to have an even number of elements.

There is a reason why i suck at studies .....Thanks for clarification.

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 08:29 PM
It means Nadal is awesome. :)
LOL. Everybody already knew that. There has to be another more obscure reason. I'm studying the Mayan calendar as we speak. I think it's related...

ninman
05-22-2010, 08:29 PM
All the head to head tells me is that Federer didn't take his chances against Nadal when he had them. That he has a deep inferiority complex against Nadal, and it doesn't seem to make a difference if he manages to score a few wins against him. For example in Nadal's 14 wins, 13 of those matches he only required 1 match point to defeat Federer.

Out of the 14 defeats Federer had opportunities to win at least 8 of those matches. Out of 7 defeats Nadal had opportunities to win at most 2. Federer just doesn't take his chances, that's the bottom line, and in my opinion that all started in Rome 2006.

Mustard
05-22-2010, 08:29 PM
N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

The bolded bit is the centre. If you read it to the left and to the right of the centre, it is identical.

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 08:29 PM
There is a reason why i suck at studies .....Thanks for clarification.
No worries. I can see how you were interpreting it (having 2 discrete sides with only whole elements in each one.)

Mustard
05-22-2010, 08:34 PM
All the head to head tells me is that Federer didn't take his chances against Nadal when he had them. That he has a deep inferiority complex against Nadal, and it doesn't seem to make a difference if he manages to score a few wins against him. For example in Nadal's 14 wins, 13 of those matches he only required 1 match point to defeat Federer.

Out of the 14 defeats Federer had opportunities to win at least 8 of those matches. Out of 7 defeats Nadal had opportunities to win at most 2. Federer just doesn't take his chances, that's the bottom line, and in my opinion that all started in Rome 2006.

The 2 key matches for me were the 2006 Dubai final, where Nadal faced a peak Federer blowing him off the court and yet sucked it up and found a way to win. And the other was that 2006 Rome final where Federer played as well as he could play on clay, leading 4-1 in the final set, having 2 CPs in the 12th game of that set and leading the tiebreak 5-3, only to then lose 4 points in a row and the match.

bolo
05-22-2010, 08:34 PM
LOL. Everybody already knew that. There has to be another more obscure reason. I'm studying the Mayan calendar as we speak. I think it's related...

lol. Some people need confirmation and now we have found it in the most fitting of places, written directly into the DNA of the H-H with his greatest rival.

LoneWolf: I bow to my Sensei. :)

darthpwner
05-22-2010, 08:38 PM
Federer is gonna win French Open 2010 over Nadal if the pattern continues. But then he'll lose Wimbledon to Rafa.

ruerooo
05-22-2010, 08:48 PM
LOL. Everybody already knew that. There has to be another more obscure reason. I'm studying the Mayan calendar as we speak. I think it's related...

It means we will be able to watch Rafa and Roger play the Olympic Mens Singles Final for the gold medal before the world ends in 2012.
According to the Mayan calendar.

edberg505
05-22-2010, 08:53 PM
I think the word you are looking for is palindrome. Kinda like toot, madam, or 14041.

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 08:54 PM
lol. Some people need confirmation and now we have found it in the most fitting of places, written directly into the DNA of the H-H with his greatest rival.

LoneWolf: I bow to my Sensei. :)
Praised be thou, my Brother. The end is near! :)

darthpwner
05-22-2010, 08:56 PM
It means we will be able to watch Rafa and Roger play the Olympic Mens Singles Final for the gold medal before the world ends in 2012.
According to the Mayan calendar.

That match will determine who is the greater champion.

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 08:56 PM
It means we will be able to watch Rafa and Roger play the Olympic Mens Singles Final for the gold medal before the world ends in 2012.
According to the Mayan calendar.
Ah! You got it ruerooo! Fed will serve for the match, Rafa will do a perfectly symmetrical whiff, and God will come out the clouds, say "fck this, this is just getting ridiculous" and end it right there. :)

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 08:57 PM
I think the word you are looking for is palindrome. Kinda like toot, madam, or 14041.
You are right, edberg505. That's the technical word. Thanks!

JeMar
05-22-2010, 08:58 PM
I think the word you are looking for is palindrome. Kinda like toot, madam, or 14041.

Or "eye did peep did eye" and "lived a tune, rare nut, a devil"

Dimension
05-22-2010, 09:15 PM
Wow, I just realized that their H2H to this date is absolutely symmetrical:
By winner:
N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

It means something...

http://www.arnadal.no/film/images/closeenc.jpg

It might signify that there will be no more Fedal final or matches. :shock:

CyBorg
05-22-2010, 09:18 PM
Jolly good - great find, wolfie.

ruerooo
05-22-2010, 09:22 PM
It might signify that there will be no more Fedal final or matches. :shock:

Hush your mouth!
:evil: :evil: :evil:

ruerooo
05-22-2010, 09:24 PM
Ah! You got it ruerooo! Fed will serve for the match, Rafa will do a perfectly symmetrical whiff, and God will come out the clouds, say "fck this, this is just getting ridiculous" and end it right there. :)

Sounds like Gaiman and Pratchett's Good Omens. :)

Dimension
05-22-2010, 09:27 PM
Hush your mouth!
:evil: :evil: :evil:

I was just saying. It's quite unlikely that such remarkable symmetry will repeat itself again. I am a big fan of Fedal matches and finals. Of course I don't want it to come to an end.

pudelko
05-22-2010, 09:47 PM
The pattern will restart.

Which means Nadal will win.

OKUSA
05-22-2010, 09:50 PM
there is no pattern

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 09:53 PM
Or "eye did peep did eye" and "lived a tune, rare nut, a devil"
Wow

^^ Look at me! I just did one! HEHEHEHEHEHE!

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 09:55 PM
It might signify that there will be no more Fedal final or matches. :shock:
I hope not, Dimension! :wink:
I intend to keep watching Rafa beating Fed 2 out of 3 times up to 2012 and beyond. :)

Dimension
05-22-2010, 09:58 PM
I hope not, Dimension! :wink:
I intend to keep watching Rafa beating Fed 2 out of 3 times up to 2012 and beyond. :)

Same here. Actually if the pattern is to repeat again, I hope Nadal's next loss to Fed will be at the hard court masters, not at any of the slams. :wink:

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:03 PM
Jolly good - great find, wolfie.
Thank you, CyBorg. At first I thought I was wrong, but then I double checked just to make sure. Really weird. The chances of having a 21 item palindrome I don't think are very high.

As a matter of fact, the chances can be calculated this way:
1. Eliminate the middle element, as it is irrelevant.
2. Pair the first and last element of the resulting sequence (we have 10 such pairs.) For each pair, we have 4 possible states: N-N, N-F, F-N, and F-F. Only 2 out of the 4 states allow the palindrome to exist.
3. Based on 2., the chances of having a 21 element palindrome are (1/2)^10.
Do you know how low that number is? It's 1/1024, or 0.09765625%. Very, very unlikely.

If anyone thinks I made a mistake in the above calculation, please let me know.

So yeah, it's very weird to have this configuration in the H2H of Rafa and Fed.

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:05 PM
Same here. Actually if the pattern is to repeat again, I hope Nadal's next loss to Fed will be at the hard court masters, not at any of the slams. :wink:
I'll sign for that! :)

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:07 PM
Sounds like Gaiman and Pratchett's Good Omens. :)
I'll have to google that one. Is it a book? :)

Dimension
05-22-2010, 10:11 PM
I'll sign for that! :)

You will have to sign with the angel, not the devil. :)

RCizzle65
05-22-2010, 10:13 PM
O_O That's mindblowing, what made you figure that out? lol

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:14 PM
You will have to sign with the angel, not the devil. :)
I will. :wink:

Dimension
05-22-2010, 10:15 PM
O_O That's mindblowing, what made you figure that out? lol

Thelonewolf has some amazing insight there. You got to give him that. :)

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:15 PM
O_O That's mindblowing, what made you figure that out? lol
I took Math in college. And I actually enjoyed it. (Yeah, I'm THAT weird. :) )

OddJack
05-22-2010, 10:15 PM
It's easy to be symmetric when you are one dimentional:

http://www.nadalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/NADAL_585x350_648446a.jpg

Dimension
05-22-2010, 10:16 PM
@TheLoneWolf, you deserve my 5 star medal for figuring this out. :)

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:17 PM
It's easy to be symmetric when you are one dimentional:

http://www.nadalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/NADAL_585x350_648446a.jpg
Boo. LOL. Actually that's a good comeback. But notice that it takes 2 to tango (or to H2H in this case.) So Fed is a part of the equation.

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:18 PM
@TheLoneWolf, you deserve my 5 star medal for figuring this out. :)
I wouldn't exchange the Nobel Prize for that, Dimension. :wink:

OddJack
05-22-2010, 10:26 PM
Boo. LOL. Actually that's a good comeback. But notice that it takes 2 to tango (or to H2H in this case.) So Fed is a part of the equation.

Well, he can make some others asymmetric when he is part of the equation:


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01422/andy-roddick_1422634i.jpg

Dimension
05-22-2010, 10:28 PM
I wouldn't exchange the Nobel Prize for that, Dimension. :wink:

One can only dream. :wink:. It's unrealistic for anyone with a strong passion for research to have that as a goal. It would be more appropriate to view that as a bonus or a lottery win. :)

There is no Nobel prize in math. However, there is Field's medal which comes every 4 years. With the caliber of talent that you possess, you might attain it one day? :)

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:32 PM
Well, he can make some others asymmetric when he is part of the equation:


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01422/andy-roddick_1422634i.jpg
^^ How can that
be married to this?:
http://eti.ru/uploads/posts/2008-10/thumbs/1225358687_1224439814_brooklyn-decker-658.jpg
I used to think Fed had sold his soul to the Devil, but Roddick and Stepanek have proven everyone wrong. :)

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:34 PM
One can only dream. :wink:. It's unrealistic for anyone with a strong passion for research to have that as a goal. It would be more appropriate to view that as a bonus or a lottery win. :)

There is no Nobel prize in math. However, there is Field's medal which comes every 4 years. With the caliber of talent that you possess, you might attain it one day? :)
I know what you mean, Dimension. I don't think anyone looks at prizes and recognition as goals. You have to have a passion for what you do, and your achievements stem from that passion alone.

Thanks for your kind comments. I'm afraid the Field's medal is reserved for true geniuses. I'm nothing but a goon compared to the real smart mathematicians. :)

OddJack
05-22-2010, 10:38 PM
Symmetry at its best, if you get that noble prize you should hand it to him:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0349/7233/340x_cropped.jpg

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 10:47 PM
Symmetry at its best, if you get that noble prize you should hand it to him:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0349/7233/340x_cropped.jpg
Yeah, actually I understand Rafa's obsessions perfectly (being an occassional sufferer of OCD myself.)

One of the things I didn't know is that he apparently eats walnut icecream before every match. (It was said in one of the pre-game videos for Madrid 2010.) My guess is that he had the icecream once before a match in which he played particularly well, so he decided to continue the pattern.

If you've seen the TV series Monk you probably know what I mean. It looks kind of comical, but it is an actual problem if you are afflicted with it. :)

OddJack
05-22-2010, 11:00 PM
Matches start in 3 hrs, 2am pacific, which is the worst possible time. This is the worst slam time wise. W and A are either late at night or early morning. FO is exactly when you need to be asleep...

GO Rodge! :^)

off to bed..

TheLoneWolf
05-22-2010, 11:02 PM
Matches start in 3 hrs, 2am pacific, which is the worst possible time. This is the worst slam time wise. W and A are either late at night or early morning. FO is exactly when you need to be asleep...

GO Rodge! :^)

off to bed..
Alright, man. Take it easy. You gotta save some sleep for when things get interesting later in the tournament. :)

Clay lover
05-23-2010, 12:48 AM
The symmetrical H2H is part of Nadal's OCD, and he loses on purpose to produce this code. Just kidding.

mandy01
05-23-2010, 12:53 AM
I agree with this human being.I agree...Human beings are so much better than cats :)

mandy01
05-23-2010, 12:55 AM
The symmetrical H2H is part of Nadal's OCD, and he loses on purpose to produce this code. Just kidding.we're not even sure if Nadal really has OCD.

Clay lover
05-23-2010, 01:00 AM
we're not even sure if Nadal really has OCD.

The just kidding on the end covers both cases.

Turning Pro
05-23-2010, 03:17 AM
All the head to head tells me is that Federer didn't take his chances against Nadal when he had them. That he has a deep inferiority complex against Nadal, and it doesn't seem to make a difference if he manages to score a few wins against him. For example in Nadal's 14 wins, 13 of those matches he only required 1 match point to defeat Federer.

Out of the 14 defeats Federer had opportunities to win at least 8 of those matches. Out of 7 defeats Nadal had opportunities to win at most 2. Federer just doesn't take his chances, that's the bottom line, and in my opinion that all started in Rome 2006.

Actually Nadal didn't take his chances for straight set wins like Wimby 08 for example or even the defeats themselves like Wimby 07 and Miami 05. The H2H should be 21-0 to rafa :twisted:

Dilettante
05-23-2010, 07:32 AM
Wow, I just realized that their H2H to this date is absolutely symmetrical:
By winner:
N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

It means something...

http://www.arnadal.no/film/images/closeenc.jpg

http://cumbriansky.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/wowprout.jpg

Hitman
05-23-2010, 09:56 AM
So......

Who is winning the next match?

Or is this it, and we'll never see another Fedal match again? :confused:

Marshredder
05-23-2010, 09:58 AM
There was a scientist that used to say to his fellow scientists "Guess what happened to me today?!"

What? They replied.

"Absolutely nothing," he said.

There are so many millions of billions of things happening every second, that there will be some that seen amazing, impossible even, such as dreaming about someone breaking their arm, and the next day it happening, when in reality the chance of that happening is chance.

Its nothing special :P

Andres
05-23-2010, 10:33 AM
^^ How can that
be married to this?:
http://eti.ru/uploads/posts/2008-10/thumbs/1225358687_1224439814_brooklyn-decker-658.jpg
I used to think Fed had sold his soul to the Devil, but Roddick and Stepanek have proven everyone wrong. :)
http://caravanofdreams.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/ist2_108723-wallet-full-o-money1.jpg

TheLoneWolf
05-23-2010, 10:41 AM
we're not even sure if Nadal really has OCD.
I really think he does. Haven't you seen his rituals? There are different degrees of OCD. As a matter of fact, I think one of the reasons he takes long between points has to do with that.

TheLoneWolf
05-23-2010, 10:45 AM
There was a scientist that used to say to his fellow scientists "Guess what happened to me today?!"

What? They replied.

"Absolutely nothing," he said.

There are so many millions of billions of things happening every second, that there will be some that seen amazing, impossible even, such as dreaming about someone breaking their arm, and the next day it happening, when in reality the chance of that happening is chance.

Its nothing special :P
Most of the times it's nothing special, but some times it means something. :)

Dream_On
05-23-2010, 10:46 AM
Next in the pattern is Federer win x10 times

The Roger Federer Code

TheLoneWolf
05-23-2010, 10:46 AM
http://caravanofdreams.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/ist2_108723-wallet-full-o-money1.jpg
She has a wallet fetish? :)

TheLoneWolf
05-23-2010, 10:47 AM
Next in the pattern is Federer win x10 times

The Roger Federer Code
Dream on, Dream_On!

CMM
05-23-2010, 10:52 AM
I really think he does. Haven't you seen his rituals? There are different degrees of OCD. As a matter of fact, I think one of the reasons he takes long between points has to do with that.

No. Those are intimidation tactics. Uncle Toni is the one who taught Rafa how to bully his opponents on court.

mandy01
05-23-2010, 10:54 AM
I really think he does. Haven't you seen his rituals? There are different degrees of OCD. As a matter of fact, I think one of the reasons he takes long between points has to do with that.I know what OCD is and to what levels it may affect a patient.That still dosen't lead to a definitive conclusion that Nadal really has the disorder.

mandy01
05-23-2010, 10:55 AM
No. Those are intimidation tactics. Uncle Toni is the one who taught Rafa how to bully his opponents on court.I know one thing-The guy considerably quickens his pace between points when given a warning .We also have to study his off-court behaviour to really conclude that the guy has such a type of a disorder.

TheLoneWolf
05-23-2010, 10:59 AM
No. Those are intimidation tactics. Uncle Toni is the one who taught Rafa how to bully his opponents on court.
I didn't know Fed was intimidated by aligned water bottles or walnut icecream. LOL. If you are referring to the time wasting, I don't condone of it. I just think it has nothing to do with intimidation. Nadal's game is intimidating enough by itself, he doesn't need any extra help.

mandy01
05-23-2010, 11:00 AM
I didn't know Fed was intimidated by aligned water bottles or walnut icecream. LOL. If you are referring to the time wasting, I don't condone of it. I just think it has nothing to do with intimidation. Nadal's game is intimidating enough by itself, he doesn't need any extra help.I've heard Nadal in general likes junk food.Eg-cookies and chips.Remember seeing a presser where he was drinking vanilla milkshake ( and his pronunciation of 'vanilla' was super cute :lol:)

TheLoneWolf
05-23-2010, 11:01 AM
I know what OCD is and to what levels it may affect a patient.That still dosen't lead to a definitive conclusion that Nadal really has the disorder.
Mandy,

Yes, I agree that we can't be completely sure. All those symptoms point to it though. That ritualistic behavior is uncanny.

TheLoneWolf
05-23-2010, 11:04 AM
I've heard Nadal in general likes junk food.Eg-cookies and chips.Remember seeing a presser where he was drinking vanilla milkshake ( and his pronunciation of 'vanilla' was super cute :lol:)
He does? Hah, that's interesting. I guess pro athletes burn enough calories that they can eat like pigs (some of them, not Serena obviously. :) )

I know the Spanish pronounciation of 'vanilla.' Vainilla (as it is writen in Spanish) is pronounced "buh-ee-nee-leeah" (or something like that.)

mandy01
05-23-2010, 11:06 AM
Mandy,

Yes, I agree that we can't be completely sure. All those symptoms point to it though. That ritualistic behavior is uncanny.
Rituals as a result of superstitions or habits are not unheard of in sports.Unless of course Nadal picks his butt off-court as well :D

TheLoneWolf
05-23-2010, 11:14 AM
Rituals as a result of superstitions or habits are not unheard of in sports.Unless of course Nadal picks his butt off-court as well :D
The so-called "butt picking," which in reality is nothing but underwear pulling, is due to underwear riding up his butt crack. Lot's of people have that problem. It's a debilitating disorder of its own. LOL.

Cyan
05-23-2010, 11:24 AM
What I find interesting is how their H2H is almost similar to the number of slams won.

cucio
05-24-2010, 12:31 AM
OP = full of awesome, including the movie still!

N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

Next possible center of symmetry is the last F, so they would have to play 19 more times to reach another palindromic combination, with Nadal winning the next 4.

TheLoneWolf
05-24-2010, 12:43 AM
OP = full of awesome, including the movie still!

N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

Next possible center of symmetry is the last F, so they would have to play 19 more times to reach another palindromic combination, with Nadal winning the next 4.
Thank you, sir. I'm happy you found this intriguing too! :)

Thank you also for pointing out where we go from here. I think Nadal winning the next 4 doesn't sound too bad!

Dimension
05-24-2010, 12:46 AM
Thank you, sir. I'm happy you found this intriguing too! :)

Thank you also for pointing out where we go from here. I think Nadal winning the next 4 doesn't sound too bad!

The next 4 Nadal's wins over Federer would be at this year FO final , Wimbledon final, USO final, and the Year End Championship. :)

TheLoneWolf
05-24-2010, 12:50 AM
The next 4 Nadal's wins over Federer would be at this year FO final , Wimbledon final, USO final, and the Year End Championship. :)
That would be a dream come true. :)

I would take FO, Wimbledon, Cincy, and USO too. But I think yours is even better. ;-)

Dimension
05-24-2010, 12:52 AM
That would be a dream come true. :)

I would take FO, Wimbledon, Cincy, and USO too. But I think yours is even better. ;-)

If we have enough faith, dreams tend to come true. :wink:

In terms of prestiege, I think mine is better; however, in terms of the "real slam count", yours is better, hands down. :)