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View Full Version : Federer the only one with the 90 sq in head size?


RalphNYC
05-27-2010, 01:31 PM
I know people have discussed this topic a lot, but I never got why Fed uses the smaller head size and no one else seems to? What, in simple language, is the benefit of using a smaller head size, and why does no one else see the benefit?

BreakPoint
05-27-2010, 01:37 PM
The benefit?

16 Grand Slam titles is the benefit.

No one else has 16 Grand Slams because no one else uses a 90. :shock: :)

rovex
05-27-2010, 01:38 PM
More control. More shanking at times to LOL

RalphNYC
05-27-2010, 01:58 PM
But if there's a benefit of more control, why don't any other pros take advantage of that. It appears that not a single pro at any ranking level anywhere in the entire world, within singles or doubles, uses that head size. Is everyone missing something? I just don't get it.

acintya
05-27-2010, 02:01 PM
what about del potro? :) but he uses 95..... but anyways its really close :)

sureshs
05-27-2010, 02:04 PM
He is too old to change now, in the twilight of his career. But looking at it another way, now is the time for him to experiment and keep himself at the top for some more time. When he goes down, he goes down really bad - not a good sign.

RalphNYC
05-27-2010, 02:09 PM
My question is simply this: Why does no one else use it?

vandre
05-27-2010, 02:12 PM
I know people have discussed this topic a lot, but I never got why Fed uses the smaller head size and no one else seems to? What, in simple language, is the benefit of using a smaller head size, and why does no one else see the benefit?

what about hewitt?

forzamilan90
05-27-2010, 02:12 PM
you know...for a second there i thought this was about federer's actual head size, not the racket

sureshs
05-27-2010, 02:15 PM
My question is simply this: Why does no one else use it?

1. Some sponsoring manufacturers do not make a 90
2. Younger players are not comfortable with 90s from their junior days
3. 2 handed BH players are not comfortable with 90s
4. Players want to get themselves more margin for error and more power
5. Players don't play like Federer style-wise
6. They see Fed shanking and his H2H against Nadal, and wise up

jigar
05-27-2010, 02:22 PM
^^ Agree with above post

SandV62
05-27-2010, 02:24 PM
Well.. in fact, safin played the prestige classic which was around 89...

A.J. Rose
05-27-2010, 02:25 PM
Before switching to his new BLX racquet, Del Potro did use the K 6.1 tour. Pros use 93 sq inch rackets, 95 sq inch rackets. These are all similar.

Besides, don't be fooled by what people tell you pros use; pros use whatever they want to use and just give it the same paint job as your racket. They have them customized to their favor. Agassi's head didn't even have close to the same specs as what they made it out to be.

Also, yes, people are growing up to use larger heads and lighter rackets because they're told its good for them, that is just another trend. Keep in mind, that while smaller heads are good for more control, professionals string their rackets with EXTREMELY low tension more often than not. European pros are averaging in the upper 30s and low 40s right now. The head size isn't all that important when you're being that drastic with tension and string type.

Bhagi Katbamna
05-27-2010, 03:58 PM
Rajeev Ram uses the same 90 sq. in. Wilson as Federer.

nicolaisidek
05-27-2010, 06:30 PM
1. Some sponsoring manufacturers do not make a 90
2. Younger players are not comfortable with 90s from their junior days
3. 2 handed BH players are not comfortable with 90s
4. Players want to get themselves more margin for error and more power
5. Players don't play like Federer style-wise
6. They see Fed shanking and his H2H against Nadal, and wise up

Good one :)

volleynets
05-27-2010, 06:32 PM
Before switching to his new BLX racquet, Del Potro did use the K 6.1 tour. Pros use 93 sq inch rackets, 95 sq inch rackets. These are all similar.

Besides, don't be fooled by what people tell you pros use; pros use whatever they want to use and just give it the same paint job as your racket. They have them customized to their favor. Agassi's head didn't even have close to the same specs as what they made it out to be.

Also, yes, people are growing up to use larger heads and lighter rackets because they're told its good for them, that is just another trend. Keep in mind, that while smaller heads are good for more control, professionals string their rackets with EXTREMELY low tension more often than not. European pros are averaging in the upper 30s and low 40s right now. The head size isn't all that important when you're being that drastic with tension and string type.

Delpo NEVER used the K6.1 tour. His frame was a 95.

PED
05-27-2010, 06:51 PM
^^Spot on, Delpo uses the HPS Pro Staff 95; only the paint has changed.

volleynets
05-27-2010, 06:51 PM
Hewitt used the 90 with Yonex but then switched to a 95 in 2007 I believe.

[d]ragon
05-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Doesn't Ouanna also use the 90? As well as Dmitrov I think

[d]ragon
05-27-2010, 07:17 PM
And Rajeev Ram

vsbabolat
05-27-2010, 07:20 PM
...........................

vsbabolat
05-27-2010, 07:39 PM
Players that use a 90 off the top of my head
Ram
Ouanna
Safin (on ATP and now on seniors)
Schuettler
Enqvist (on ATP and now on Seniors)
Calleri
Koellerer
Borg (on Seniors Tour)
Dimitrov
Haase
Sloane Stevenson
Alexandra Stevenson

I am sure there are a lot more of the thousands that are playing professional tennis.

Nanshiki
05-27-2010, 08:30 PM
Hewitt used a 90 for years, almost certainly still does.

raiden031
05-27-2010, 08:43 PM
One reason is that Fed is part of the older generation of players currently on tour. The younger players have grown up using slightly larger racquets than Fed did. Back when Sampras was on tour, I'd guess the average was 85-90 and now its more like 95.

With the older guys who have switched to larger racquets, its probably because they weren't successful and wanted something a little more forgiving. Since Fed was successful, there was no real incentive for him to switch. It was a risk that wasn't worth taking. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

vsbabolat
05-27-2010, 08:49 PM
One reason is that Fed is part of the older generation of players currently on tour. The younger players have grown up using slightly larger racquets than Fed did. Back when Sampras was on tour, I'd guess the average was 85-90 and now its more like 95.

With the older guys who have switched to larger racquets, its probably because they weren't successful and wanted something a little more forgiving. Since Fed was successful, there was no real incentive for him to switch. It was a risk that wasn't worth taking. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

That is not true. In 1989 the only 85 in Wilson's lin-up was the Original Pro Staff Midsize. The Wilson Ultra line had moved to 95 and 110. The average head size of 95 i'd say has been around now for about 20 years now.

BreakPoint
05-27-2010, 09:16 PM
Players that use a 90 off the top of my head
Ram
Ouanna
Safin (on ATP and now on seniors)
Schuettler
Enqvist (on ATP and now on Seniors)
Calleri
Koellerer
Borg (on Seniors Tour)
Dimitrov
Haase
Sloane Stevenson
Alexandra Stevenson

I am sure there are a lot more of the thousands that are playing professional tennis.
Also Joachim Johansson.

And Sampras (most say that the KPS88 is really a 90).

BreakPoint
05-27-2010, 09:22 PM
That is not true. In 1989 the only 85 in Wilson's lin-up was the Original Pro Staff Midsize. The Wilson Ultra line had moved to 95 and 110. The average head size of 95 i'd say has been around now for about 20 years now.
However, back in 1989, a lot of people were still using smaller racquets like the Dunlop Max 200G (82 sq. in.), myself included.

seacard
05-27-2010, 10:21 PM
Also Joachim Johansson.

And Sampras (most say that the KPS88 is really a 90).

Somebody hasn't been following the "Sampras to Babolat" thread. :)

piece
05-28-2010, 01:59 AM
Players that use a 90 off the top of my head
Ram
Ouanna
Safin (on ATP and now on seniors)
Schuettler
Enqvist (on ATP and now on Seniors)
Calleri
Koellerer
Borg (on Seniors Tour)
Dimitrov
Haase
Sloane Stevenson
Alexandra Stevenson

I am sure there are a lot more of the thousands that are playing professional tennis.

:shock:OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD??!!

Wow. I'm impressed.

Anyway, all things being equal, smaller head size should have some small benefits in ease of generating high racquet head speed.

vsbabolat
05-28-2010, 05:00 AM
However, back in 1989, a lot of people were still using smaller racquets like the Dunlop Max 200G (82 sq. in.), myself included.

Back in 1989 Dunlop only had Max200G and the Max Impact Mid as the only racquets in-line that were under 95. The rest which were the majority available were 95 and 110. I am talking what the companies were selling. And what they were selling for over 20 years has been mostly 95. In the Yamaha Secret line in 1989 not one midsize racquet. All midplus.

1hbhBUX
05-28-2010, 05:18 AM
Anyone using a prestige mid - really a 90.

vsbabolat
05-28-2010, 05:46 AM
Anyone using a prestige mid - really a 90.

Yes.
Rainer Schuettler
Sloane Stevenson
Daniel Koellerer
Agustin Calleri
Marat Safin
Thomas Enqvist
Robin Haase

Six.One.Tour.90FAN
05-28-2010, 06:09 AM
you know...for a second there i thought this was about federer's actual head size, not the racket

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!...lol

v205
05-28-2010, 07:10 AM
The k90 and the prestige molds have pretty much the same width as the Max200g. Just the length is of the 2 is longer than the Max200g.

volleynets
05-28-2010, 08:05 AM
you know...for a second there i thought this was about federer's actual head size, not the racket

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!...lol

LOL a day ago I thought forzamilan's post was saying that he thought it was about Federer's racket head size not his racket brand.

But now I realize that you mean't Federer's head lol.

dsa202
05-28-2010, 08:45 AM
James Blake uses one now.

RalphNYC
05-28-2010, 11:33 AM
Very cool, thanks.

Players that use a 90 off the top of my head
Ram
Ouanna
Safin (on ATP and now on seniors)
Schuettler
Enqvist (on ATP and now on Seniors)
Calleri
Koellerer
Borg (on Seniors Tour)
Dimitrov
Haase
Sloane Stevenson
Alexandra Stevenson

I am sure there are a lot more of the thousands that are playing professional tennis.

powerslave
05-28-2010, 11:41 AM
Modern playing style requires more extreme grips as we see the racket path going across the ball than through the ball when compared to someone using PS85 hence the need for a larger head size .

NLBwell
05-28-2010, 04:14 PM
Agassi's head didn't even have close to the same specs as what they made it out to be.



Was that when he was wearing hair extensions?

namui
05-29-2010, 01:16 AM
Stefan Edberg is using k90 now.

vandre
05-29-2010, 05:32 AM
Hewitt used the 90 with Yonex but then switched to a 95 in 2007 I believe.

that was when he used the rqis 1 tour. when he changed sticks (kinda before they expected he would i think) he went back to the yonex rds001 pj sticks, which if you follow the chat here and there it's widely believed that these are 90s. now i guess the question is "what headsize is hewitt using under the rdis 100 pj?"

marosmith
05-29-2010, 10:39 AM
All the players who use the PT57a, Rad MP mold, Prestige MP mold are using a racket that is about 94.35 sq " and that is the most used mold on tour and is almost a mid.

Autodidactic player
05-29-2010, 12:15 PM
I know people have discussed this topic a lot, but I never got why Fed uses the smaller head size and no one else seems to? What, in simple language, is the benefit of using a smaller head size, and why does no one else see the benefit?

OK, back to the original question. All other things being equal, a smaller head size will give more control and less power. Having played with loads of rackets, I don't think the trade-off is equal. I think the added power of a larger head is significantly more beneficial than the added control in the smaller head. So, to me, the answer to your second question is that most pros feel their games benefit more from added power than added control. This is especially true with the 95-100 inch head size most pros use since going down to 90 inches won't give much of a bump in control but will really hurt in the most important aspect of today's game - power. Once you get above 115 inches or so, the added power is harder to use effectively because of the loss of control and, in my opinion, the equation changes. But almost no pros use a 115 inch or larger racket.

RalphNYC
05-29-2010, 03:59 PM
Thanks that's very helpful. It's interesting to see so many pro men and women now using the "Nadal" racquet (i realize that the specs will vary from player to player). It seems like no one suffers from control issues at all with that thing.

OK, back to the original question. All other things being equal, a smaller head size will give more control and less power. Having played with loads of rackets, I don't think the trade-off is equal. I think the added power of a larger head is significantly more beneficial than the added control in the smaller head. So, to me, the answer to your second question is that most pros feel their games benefit more from added power than added control. This is especially true with the 95-100 inch head size most pros use since going down to 90 inches won't give much of a bump in control but will really hurt in the most important aspect of today's game - power.

martini1
05-29-2010, 05:58 PM
OK, back to the original question. All other things being equal, a smaller head size will give more control and less power. Having played with loads of rackets, I don't think the trade-off is equal. I think the added power of a larger head is significantly more beneficial than the added control in the smaller head. So, to me, the answer to your second question is that most pros feel their games benefit more from added power than added control. This is especially true with the 95-100 inch head size most pros use since going down to 90 inches won't give much of a bump in control but will really hurt in the most important aspect of today's game - power. Once you get above 115 inches or so, the added power is harder to use effectively because of the loss of control and, in my opinion, the equation changes. But almost no pros use a 115 inch or larger racket.

I have the APDC, K90, and the K88. Seriously if the K90/K88 is leaded up and strung with lower tension there is tons of power. You'll just have to swing a little faster.

The OS sub 10oz rackets are meant to be hit with a slow and short swing. At the end there is a limit on the pace unlike a heavy racket with a smaller head.

Autodidactic player
05-29-2010, 06:27 PM
I have the APDC, K90, and the K88. Seriously if the K90/K88 is leaded up and strung with lower tension there is tons of power. You'll just have to swing a little faster.

The OS sub 10oz rackets are meant to be hit with a slow and short swing. At the end there is a limit on the pace unlike a heavy racket with a smaller head.

I once hit with a racket made by a company called Weed. 135 inches and about 9 ounces. I swear I could rip shots with Rafa-like velocity and spin. I only wish I could get more than 1 out of 50 in the court!

Ross K
05-29-2010, 10:42 PM
All the players who use the PT57a, Rad MP mold, Prestige MP mold are using a racket that is about 94.35 sq " and that is the most used mold on tour and is almost a mid.

Are the PT57a, Rad, Prestige MP mold really just 94.35?

marosmith
05-31-2010, 12:01 PM
Are the PT57a, Rad, Prestige MP mold really just 94.35?

It's in the 94-95 range dependent on how it's measured compared to how other manufacturers measure sq in.

TheNatural
05-31-2010, 01:33 PM
For tall guys, 95" would feel roughly equivalent to how the 90" feels for Federer.

Hidious
05-31-2010, 06:17 PM
For tall guys, 95" would feel roughly equivalent to how the 90" feels for Federer.

Care to explain, i don't see how height and headsize are related?

martini1
05-31-2010, 07:39 PM
I once hit with a racket made by a company called Weed. 135 inches and about 9 ounces. I swear I could rip shots with Rafa-like velocity and spin. I only wish I could get more than 1 out of 50 in the court!

Weed?? Are you serious? :)

Anyway, that's exactly my point. If you want to hit it in there is a limit on the pace. If you hit it with too much spin the pace end up being slower.

Autodidactic player
06-01-2010, 03:15 AM
Weed?? Are you serious? :) ...

Really, it's true!

http://www.tennisidentity.com/tennisidentitycom/images/2008/10/05/weed.jpg

aceX
06-01-2010, 04:44 AM
Weed.
Classic.
lmao

TheNatural
06-02-2010, 02:37 PM
Care to explain, i don't see how height and headsize are related?

It comes down to the anatomy of people relative to their rackets which determines things like differences in how wide a given racket feels to people etc.

You would probably have to use a junior racket that's 25"with a very narrow 80" head for it to feel like Karlovic's racket feels to him.

lucasschneider
06-02-2010, 06:09 PM
There are not many players that use a 90, but it's all a matter of what feels best for that player.
Not everyone has Roger's feel or talent! Come on, he is the only one with 16 GS and it's obvious to say that he is special.
You have to hit the ball very clean to hit with a 90 head.
There are players like Dimitrov, Ouanna and Ram, who also use the Six.One Tour as some people have already mentioned....maybe they should use a bigger head size

shnasizzle
06-03-2010, 04:50 PM
what about del potro? :) but he uses 95..... but anyways its really close :)

i think del potro used the k six one tour before

joke-a-vich
06-04-2010, 11:13 AM
blake uses the new BLX tpur 90 and ther is a little italian girl (can't remember her name, but it was one of those 3 name deals) who uses the k90

Fedman
06-04-2010, 11:53 AM
blake uses the new BLX tpur 90 and ther is a little italian girl (can't remember her name, but it was one of those 3 name deals) who uses the k90


Her name is Suarrez-Navarro.
She has a sweet one handed backhand.

tennis1sherpa
06-04-2010, 12:11 PM
Who uses the smallest head size?

TheRed
06-04-2010, 12:37 PM
I have the APDC, K90, and the K88. Seriously if the K90/K88 is leaded up and strung with lower tension there is tons of power. You'll just have to swing a little faster.

The OS sub 10oz rackets are meant to be hit with a slow and short swing. At the end there is a limit on the pace unlike a heavy racket with a smaller head.

May I ask what level you are? Here's the problem with your idea that "you'll just have to swing a little faster." At the pro level, there are enough shots where you can't simply swing a little faster. The extra power you get, without being in perfect position, helps.
You're right, customized correctly, the K90 and K88 can have just as much power, when you're properly positioned and hitting correctly. That's the catch. You just have to be better.

joke-a-vich
06-04-2010, 03:26 PM
Her name is Suarrez-Navarro.
She has a sweet one handed backhand.

oh yeah! thanks!

I know isn't sick? i was surprised when i saw her using that stick.

OTMPut
06-04-2010, 08:33 PM
I have the APDC, K90, and the K88. Seriously if the K90/K88 is leaded up and strung with lower tension there is tons of power. You'll just have to swing a little faster.

The OS sub 10oz rackets are meant to be hit with a slow and short swing. At the end there is a limit on the pace unlike a heavy racket with a smaller head.


If you club K88 with K90 in terms of power level, you may not have not hit with it much. K88 is a very powerful racquet. I would put it closer to the PDR or APDC in power level.

OTMPut
06-04-2010, 08:38 PM
I know people have discussed this topic a lot, but I never got why Fed uses the smaller head size and no one else seems to? What, in simple language, is the benefit of using a smaller head size, and why does no one else see the benefit?

It also has something to do with what they start playing with. I guess Fed might have started with a woodie.

At my club, i see almost all kids swinging babolats. They most probably do not know much about racquets - they get what their daddy gets them (who gets what the coaches tell and they tell stuff they get paid to tell) or it is a pokemon phenomenon (they see a freak swinging a yellow coloured stick with a mean face and fist pumps and all and they want everything he has).

OTMPut
06-04-2010, 08:39 PM
1. Some sponsoring manufacturers do not make a 90
2. Younger players are not comfortable with 90s from their junior days
3. 2 handed BH players are not comfortable with 90s
4. Players want to get themselves more margin for error and more power
5. Players don't play like Federer style-wise
6. They see Fed shanking and his H2H against Nadal, and wise up

I hope these "wised up" guys win a slam or two.

Rob2D
06-05-2010, 11:10 AM
I hope these "wised up" guys win a slam or two.

Haha yeah. Most people don't realise that its the guy with the 90 that keeps stopping them.

djinni999
06-07-2010, 01:36 PM
people seem to be overlooking the popularity of the Prestige mids among the Euro clay courters back in the day (when clay courters could also actually volley damn well and play touch shots, unlike many of today's 'fast' courters *cough* soderling, del po *cough*). it's mostly an issue of talent and its application (training).

midsize frames favor the versatile player with very sound technique and physique. how many pro's today meet all three conditions?

as for power, regarding some previous post: calleri in his prime with his prestige mid can knock roddick's (Pure Drive) socks off on both wings.

christo
06-07-2010, 10:40 PM
what about del potro? :) but he uses 95..... but anyways its really close :)

no it's not

0d1n
06-08-2010, 04:48 AM
It also has something to do with what they start playing with. I guess Fed might have started with a woodie.

At my club, i see almost all kids swinging babolats. They most probably do not know much about racquets - they get what their daddy gets them (who gets what the coaches tell and they tell stuff they get paid to tell) or it is a pokemon phenomenon (they see a freak swinging a yellow coloured stick with a mean face and fist pumps and all and they want everything he has).

He is born in the 80's...and most likely started playing tennis in 85 or 86. He most definitely didn't start playing it with a woodie.
He may have had a woodie in 92-94 or so...but that's a different story.

On topic...Federer is NOT the only one playing with such a small head size. All the prestige mid users (already listed) are using a similar head size with a more dense string pattern...hence...an even more demanding racket with regards to power.
Also ... there are a number of less known players that use the Tour 90 type of racket from Wilson...they are just ... a very small minority.
The VAST majority of players are using 95-100 sq inch rackets, and that's probably the "sweet spot" for the current technology (i.e graphite rackets with modern strings).

OTMPut
06-08-2010, 11:37 PM
He is born in the 80's...and most likely started playing tennis in 85 or 86. He most definitely didn't start playing it with a woodie.


There is photo of a very young fed playing with wooden racket in his biography.

0d1n
06-09-2010, 02:38 AM
There is photo of a very young fed playing with wooden racket in his biography.

That may be so, and I'm not saying he never hit with one for giggles, but no serious junior starting tennis in the 1985ish period would have used a wooden racket as "main" for any extended period of time, because there was no reason to do it.
Graphite rackets were already well established by that time.

TNIipc2731500
06-20-2010, 10:54 AM
I believe that people don't use it cause it has a small sweet spot and it's one of the heaviest racquets played in the tour compared with other modern racquets. I use Federer's racquets and it easily comes to weighing one pound after strings, ovegrip dampner, and lead tape at only 3 and 9 O'clock. The biggest advantage is that it has the best plow through still, out of all the racquets and I have tried from head speed pro to yonnex 90.