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View Full Version : Which is the most powerful midsize racquet?


AndrewD
05-17-2005, 08:00 AM
All things being equal - same string and tension, no extra weight added so only in stock form- which midsize frame provides the most power?

Ive been struggling for a little while with a nagging wrist injury that seems to flare up when I use anything midplus or larger. Im sure its a combination of things but I just dont want to mess around with what appears to be working. So, I'm giving myself an extended period of time just playing with a midsize frame. Hopefully, in a few months I'll be able to transition up to something with a more accessible headsize.

However, until then I'll be using a mid but need to select one with the issue of power in mind. A little extra on serves would be greatly appreciated (I generate more than enough on groundstrokes) and isn't something I seem to get out of the Head Prestige Pro I currently use (also use a low string tension).

I've read reviews of the few available midsize frames and the Diablo mid and Head LM Prestige seem to get the biggest wraps in that department. I'm a bit hesitant about the LM after reading Smashlob's review and a few comments here and there regarding the power to control ratio not being very high.

Any thoughts greatly regarding the midsize frames would be greatly appreciated.

BLiND
05-17-2005, 08:13 AM
From these I've tried...

Wilson nCode Tour 90 (90")
Wilson ROK (93")
Head LM Prestige Mid (89.5")
Prince Diablo Mid (93")
Vantage Custom 111110 (90")
Yonex RDX 500 Mid (90")

...I'd say the Diablo by a fair way, followed by Prestige (because of its swingweight) & RDX500. Of-course this depends on your strings a lot!

AndrewD
05-17-2005, 08:25 AM
Blind,
Thanks very much (very quick too lol). How did you find the control with the Diablo and comfort? Just need a bit more punch than the old Prestige Pro is giving me but dont want to totally sacrifice comfort, stability and control. The lower swingweight in comparison to the Prestige might be nice too although would have to see about that.

Ive tried the RDX500mp and didn't like the feel so assumed the mid would be similar. You use the Head Prestige, I believe, so how did you find the LM in comparison to the older versions?

Lakoste
05-17-2005, 12:50 PM
i agree that diablos have a lot of power considering the size

BLiND
05-17-2005, 02:15 PM
I've never used the Prestige Classic, only the LM Prestige Mid, and i.Prestige MP.

The Diablo is a great racquet... very comfy, and powerful and great control... however because I am use to very low flex of the LM Prestige (and now Vantage)... while I cannot fault the Diablo, I don't get along with it.

The biggest problem will be getting use to the stiffness of the Diablo... though it plays a lot less stiff than a POG MP... which is what it replaces.

Also I much prefered the RDX500 Mid to the MP... so its worth have a go of that... the LM Prestige is a great frame, but really not manouvrable enough in the long run.

My advice... demo Diablo Mid, RDX500 Mid, and Vantage Custom 111113.... and consider LM Prestige Mid if your like hercules.

Flatspin
05-17-2005, 04:59 PM
The i Prestige mid can really put "smoke" on the ball!! I have played some with my son's Yonex RDX 500 mid and was impressed ..... best Yonex frame I've hit with!

louis netman
05-17-2005, 08:41 PM
I had the same question a few months ago...found that the Diablo mid had ample pop...hurt my tender arm though....and it's really weird at the net for some odd reason...

amadextor
05-17-2005, 09:44 PM
For flat shots, Prince NXG mid, more pace than Prestiges. I own them. Prestiges seem to give more spin, but pure penetratind power - Prince NXG mid.

bcaz
05-17-2005, 10:17 PM
The Yonex MP-1 Tour 90 is quite powerful for its head size, more so than many of the others mentioned here.

yongxing
05-17-2005, 11:09 PM
I'd go with Yonex, they seem to fit my game very well. I have not done any stupid mistakes recently.

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
05-17-2005, 11:55 PM
The mids I've played with have been the Wilson Tour 90, Yonex RDX 500 Mid, Prince Diablo Mid, Head Liquidmetal Prestige Mid, Volkl V-Engine Tour 10 Mid, and Vantage Custom 111111. I really disliked the Head and Volkl, especially the Volkl because, and I've read BreakPoint saying something similar, it felt really underpowered. The Head had too high of a swingweight. Plus those two have 18 mains in a small head which doesn't bode well for topspin. AndrewD, I've read that you play S-V so that could spell touble for your kicker. The Wilson Tour 90 had incredible dwell time, but like the Head, the swingweight was too high. Additionally, the model is discontinued and I wouldn't dare speculate on how the nCode Six-One 90 plays because I haven't hit with it. Reviews for that racquet seem to be all over the board. The Prince Diablo Mid is a good racquet, but plays a bit stiff. Technology-wise, I'm not aware of there being any dampening systems built into the Diablo. Plus, with the presence of titanium and tungsten, the prospects for a pillowy ride aren't very high. The Vantage custom I mentioned is great. At first, I didn't like it very much. Personally, I think with the leather grip and Vantage multifilament that racquet plays harsh, but after going to 18 gauge Hurricane and switching to Gammi Hi-Tech replacement grip, it plays soft but still responsive. I would put the Vantage in a tie with the Yonex RDX 500 Mid. This racquet does everything well. It's not underpowered. With a little weight and low tensions, this racquet can be perfect. The feel is just unmatched and what keeps me from saying "well if you just dropped tension on the Volkl or Head, or added weight to the Volkl or Head, or put a dampener on the Prince..." Living in Australia, I don't know what your demo situation is. I think the Vantage and Yonex should be the racquets you consider for demo. Additionally, you should, since you play serve volley, either weight up the Yonex or fool around with weight/balance on vantagetennis.com to get the stability/manuverability you desire. Again, if I were you, I'd focus on the Vantage midsize or the Yonex RDX 500 Mid. I've read that you're on a quest to find, if not a holy grail, just any racquet that gets you excited but keeps you pain free. I feel for you. Good luck. Keep me up to date on how it goes.

sandro
05-18-2005, 12:02 AM
I went from the Prestige Pro to the C-10 Pro looking for a bit more pop, easier kick access for 2nd serves and more forgiving net game. Even if the Prestige is 93 and the C-10 is 98, the real difference in how they play is really small (at least for my skills).
I'm very satisfied.

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
05-18-2005, 12:02 AM
Sorry, AndrewD, I forgot to say something. No less an authority than racquetresearch.com placed the Head i.Prestige Mid 3rd in their overall rankings. Check out the site. Very reputable source. They seem to put arm safety first. In combination with the fact that mostly every mid gives the user great playability, this should be another frame to consider along with the Vantage mid and Yonex RDX 500 Mid. Hopefully, these frames aren't long gone in the land of Oz.

crosscourt
05-18-2005, 12:57 AM
AndrewdD -- at last -- corroboration from Louis Netman that the Diablo mid can hurt your arm. However, I think it is the most powerful of the mids. One you could think about is the Volkl Tour 10 mid. Now discontinued but you can pick them up second hand. I have 2.

ffrpg
05-18-2005, 08:06 AM
Of all the midsized racquets I've owned, the Diablo Mid is easily the most powerful of the bunch.

AndrewD
05-18-2005, 09:20 AM
Thanks very much guys. Sounds like mixed reviews of the Diablo. The TW guys loved it and a couple here think they're okay. Unfortunately it seems more of you dislike the frame with a passion LOL.

Actually was given similar information as regards the i-Prestige in another thread. Apparently a crisper response than my old Prestige Pro, a bit more power, a touch stiffer but with a lower overall weight and a lower swingweight. All of that adds up to exactly what I wished I could change about the Prestige Pro.

DoubleHanded&LovinIt,
unfortunately the Vantage is just too expensive for me here in Australia even with any discounts they've offered.
The i-Prestige, on the other hand, I can pick up for about $150 Australian which is a very good price for us. All up it gets the biggest rave reviews from people on this board, is highly affordable and might fix the couple of 'issues' I have with my old frame. Not to mention making it a hell of a lot easier to transition.

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
05-18-2005, 03:23 PM
AndrewD, I'm very intrigued by the Estusa Power Beam Braided as my game has become very much centered around serving-and-volleying and chipping-and-charging. I'll tell you how it hits. With regard to the Diablo Mid, I should have mentioned that the string I used on that racquet was a cheap synthetic. I'm pretty sure it was Gamma Synthetic Gut, not Prince Duraflex Synthetic Gut--probably a 16 gauge. The string may have had something to do with the harshness. If you demo this racquet, hopefully something softer like a multi will be in there. Also, are you considering the RDX 500 Mid at all? I think its well suited to net play, good serving stick, responds well to quality strings at low tensions.

Redflea
05-18-2005, 03:38 PM
Blind,
Ive tried the RDX500mp and didn't like the feel so assumed the mid would be similar. You use the Head Prestige, I believe, so how did you find the LM in comparison to the older versions?

RDX Mid and MP are very different racquets...I'm an RDX mid user and don't care for the MP at all, so don't let your own distaste for the MP keep you from trying the Mid. The RDX Mid is a silky beauty... :-)

Pushmaster
05-18-2005, 08:48 PM
Believe it or not I hit some of the hardest shots I've ever hit with the PS 6.0 85, so it would be my pick. When all things come together this stick has deceptive power, you can really crush the ball with a good clean hit. I'd still be playing with it if my 42 y.o. elbow and shoulder were up to the task.

NoBadMojo
05-18-2005, 09:22 PM
i dont think there are so many people giving love to the iPrestige..maybe a couple of diehards..i'm not a fan of the i Series.i think the frames in the iSeries are pretty much crap with the possible exception of the iRad (which i dont think is as good as some of the other Rads). not very many people I know like the iPrestige at all. any pros using the iPrestige?
Disclaimer: This is not a personal attack on anyone using the Iprestige or any frame in the iSeries, nor a personal attack on their heirs, siblings, or parents.

tandayu
05-18-2005, 09:39 PM
i dont think there are so many people giving love to the iPrestige..maybe a couple of diehards..i'm not a fan of the i Series.i think the frames in the iSeries are pretty much crap with the possible exception of the iRad (which i dont think is as good as some of the other Rads). not very many people I know like the iPrestige at all. any pros using the iPrestige?
Disclaimer: This is not a personal attack on anyone using the Iprestige or any frame in the iSeries, nor a personal attack on their heirs, siblings, or parents.

Low demand on the i prestige. I got 2 used I prestige in great condition for $60, and a new one for $75 on **** last year. I was surprised nobody bid for it at that time. Today there are 3 i prestige frames for $100 on ****. The frame is very light, and the harder I swing the more I feel lost of the head position.

Tomek_Pl
05-18-2005, 10:35 PM
If I played more I would use i.presitge mid. That is very good racquet, but since O play only few hours a week I can't handle it. It doesn't have much power. I.Prestige MP is realy nice- more power, good stabilty and feeling for MP. I think of buying used one (since I don't have money to buy new Voelkls by now...) but I don't know if it is not a bit to heavy for me...

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
05-18-2005, 10:41 PM
I thought the i.Prestiges were pretty popular on the junior scene in America. Then again, all those sponsored juniors switch over to what's new or get pj's, so you never know. But seriously, the racquetresearch.com stuff seems something to consider, no? NBMJ, have you hit with it?

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
05-18-2005, 10:46 PM
Ohhh, by the way NBMJ, nice review on the Estusa. Quick question? What's the grip shape like? What other manufacturer would you compare to? Does the sizing seem to be correct? Thanks!

AndrewD
05-19-2005, 03:35 AM
Oh well, guess its just going to be trial and error. I'll see if I can hit the i-Prestige this weekend, if not then I'll have to cross it off the ever shortening list. My only concern with it is the very low swingweight (didnt realise how low it was in comparison to the overall weight). Just not sure there's enough heft behind it. Anyway, its hopefully just a stop-gap measure until the wrist is fine and I can look at something a touch larger (will move up in increments just in case).

Pushmaster
05-19-2005, 05:40 AM
Ohhh, by the way NBMJ, nice review on the Estusa. Quick question? What's the grip shape like? What other manufacturer would you compare to? Does the sizing seem to be correct? Thanks!
They're shaped and sized like Wilson.

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
05-19-2005, 05:51 AM
Excellent, thanks!

kreative
05-19-2005, 10:26 AM
diablo mid, ncode 90, and lm prestige mid are most powerful of the bunch.

AndrewD
05-22-2005, 04:11 AM
kreative, and others who suggested the LM Prestige mid,

I think you're spot on. Had a hit with one today and couldn't believe the power difference between it and my Prestige Pro (first or second generation Prestige). It felt lighter and swings quite a bit lighter, has far more spin potential and noticeably more power. Admittedly it had better strings in it than my Prestige but that doesn't account for everything. It was strung at 62lbs while my frame is strung at 45lbs so to get more zip with the higher tension was a surprising, but encouraging, sign.

Strangely, when I placed the two frames against one another I noticed the LM Prestige to be slightly larger in headsize. Not sure if that means the LM is a genuine 93sq while the Prestige Pro is only 89.5 but a difference was noticed both visually and 'in the hand'.

Regardless, it was quite a jump in performance. The LM lacks the extreme solidity of the Prestige Pro and the softer feel (so less 'touch'), replacing it with a somewhat 'tinny' response. Still, slice and topspin were far more accessible, I achieved more power on serve, more spin on serve and a bit more 'punch' on volleys. All of that, plus a lower swingweight so could really generate some racquet head speed on serves.

I think a softer string would eliminate a bit of that tinny sensation but otherwise I was extremely impressed. Surprisingly, given the less cushioned feel, I still had zero aches or pains in my wrist

barry
05-22-2005, 05:02 AM
Assuming you include 100 as mid size, give the Prince O3 a try, it is very powerful. More so than my current Wilson Prostaff Surge.
Also the Head Flexpoint Tour was like a spring board, to much flex, ball took up when you hit it.

AndrewD
05-22-2005, 05:58 AM
Thanks Barry,
I actually have had a few hits with the 03 and found it to be quite a nice frame. I don't actually count 100sq as midsize, would call it midplus. Really only looking for those frames up to but not including 95sq.

My wrist, unfortunately, seems to react to headsizes above 95sq so will stick with the smaller mids for the time being. I think its better for me to do it tough but still be able to play. Might lose a few more points here or there but at least I can still keep hitting and that really is the key thing.

Anyway, Ive settled on the Prestige line -can't seem to find anything that comes close- and now just have to decide between the iPrestige and LM Prestige mid, although after today's effort Id say the LM Prestige mid will be the pick.

barry
05-22-2005, 06:04 AM
AndrewD

I would think a more open string pattern would help the Wrist issue. The denser the string pattern the more board like the rackets play. At least that has been my experience.

If I could design and build my own racket. It would be a Head Ti.Radical Mid 98 (no LM crap etc.) with an 16 x 18 string pattern. I loved the frame, but did not like the dense string pattern. It was the perfect weight and balance for leather grips and adding a little lead tape at 9 and 3.
Oh well maybe Head will realize they built the perfect racket a while back, and will revist it.

AndrewD
05-22-2005, 07:37 AM
The open string pattern probably would be a good idea although I found the LM Prestige to feel a bit less dense than the Prestige Pro. Either way, there was zero pain.

What Ive found is that lower string tensions (45lbs with the Prestige Pro) have a better effect than the open string pattern. Of course, at those low tensions, you pretty much need a denser string pattern for control. I also hit very flat on my forehand, predominantly slice on the backhand (although a heavy semi-western backhand for drives and passing shots) and chip-charge a lot, all of which requires a fairly high degree of control. So, the denser pattern works best for my game and fits very nicely with the low tensions.

Wouldn't recommend most string at 45lbs but I played the bulk of my tennis with the old 80's version 200G and sub-50lbs was standard with that frame. I also find that low tension range and my playing style reduces a lot of stress on the body. You get excellent depth on shots by hitting very early and using the weight of the racquet to drive through the ball (which naturally carries you forward to net and reduces baseline rallies). Lower margin for error and it can be dicey on clay but on medium-fast to fast hardcourts its very effective and provides me with the most enjoyment and success LOL. Also find for serve-volley that an open string pattern can be a little unpredicatable. Just has a tendency for balls to pop up a bit more.

Barry, did you know that a company called Vantage was offering 'made to measure' (within reason) racquets these days. Although the composition will be different you can select the headsize and weighting you'd like and they give you a choice of two or three stiffnesses. You might like to have a look at them.

fedex27
05-22-2005, 07:40 AM
i'd say the one with the most power.

barry
05-22-2005, 09:31 AM
AndrewD

Thinks for the info on Vantage will check them out. I do my strings at 54, all poly and it plays great. Might try the sub 50's, suppose to increase the size of the sweetspot.

Flatspin
05-22-2005, 03:12 PM
NoBadMojo ..... why always the disclaimer about attacks on peoples preferences. You walk the fence every time. Either have the balls to say what you think and voice an opinion or don't say it. You throw your opinion out and then question why anyone would disagree. What do you mean "die-hard"? You are offensive ..... that's an offensive statement!! If you didn't want to offend someone ... why did you say it? Now we will have to listen to your long explanation of why you said it. Grow some balls! I'm not making any disclaimer .... or sorry if I offend anyone .... it's straight up!
A couple of years ago ... the i Prestige was the most used frame in the men's top 25! The i Prestige mid is my favorite! Don't see many Vokyls ... then or now!!! What's up with that?? However, I don't think Vokyls are "crap"!! Please don't take offense ..... right!!

Rory G
05-22-2005, 03:51 PM
Flatspin, I second the vote for the iPrestige. I have hit with it quite a bit in the past and it is actually a pretty popular frame in my area. Many have stuck with it over more recent LM model. The iRadical has a decent following also. Nice racquet. I see quite a bit of Head and Yonex racquets at tournaments lately.

Flatspin
05-22-2005, 03:55 PM
thanks Rory! The i Prestige is an extremely popular racquet. I loved it the first time I played with it. I've not swithed either ...... still the best Prestige imo. Thanks for the support!

AndrewD
05-22-2005, 05:00 PM
I did have a brief hit with the i-Prestige, although not for as long as with the LM version, and didn't lreally enjoy it quite as much. I found, going from the Prestige Pro, that the LM was the easiest to transition to while the i-Prestige seemed to be a bit stiffer and not have quite so much feel. I don't think either was as good as the Prestige Pro but for that little extra power and easily accessible spin I thought the LM was a better choice. Also, Head can supply me directly with the LM whereas I doubt they'll be willing to do that with the i-Prestige. Still, might pick up an i-P at some stage just to see the difference in feel.

Barry,
just keep in mind that the composition of the frame will be quite different to your old Radical. However, the Dunlop style headshape isn't too much of a jump and it is a very straightforward kind of frame - no fancy technology at all. Bit more expensive than other racquets though.

larrhall
05-22-2005, 05:58 PM
I don't think it's a particular model. I think it's any stiff frame whose beam is also mid-width (if that works) or wider.

Very flexible frame and thin beam = very low power no matter the head size.
Flexible and mid-width beam = somewhat low power
stiff and thin beam = same
stiff and mid-width (see above).

Most powerful midsize frames I've ever hit:

Yamaha Secret
Volkl Tour 10 MP (not the mid)
GStar - I have one for sale, very nice frame.

(the preceding does not in any way imply that NoBadMojo gets too much sun on a daily basis...)

AndrewD
05-22-2005, 06:04 PM
larrhall,
unfortunately the Volkl falls outside of the range Im talking about. The mp is a midplus so a bit bigger than Im looking for. I asked the question as there are very few true midsizes out there so its really a comparison of only about a dozen frames. As I said in a couple of earlier posts, my wrist has difficulties seems to be affected by anything 95sq and above so Im only looking at those below that size.

OldSchooLTennis
05-22-2005, 06:18 PM
I didnt bother reading the other responces but all i know is that the prestige 600 (the lime green and sliver one) can HAMMER the ball very flat and hard. It was a little too heavy for me though. I also didnt like the dense string pattern.

AndrewD
05-22-2005, 06:30 PM
OldSchooLTennis,
it sounds a little bit like the Prestige Pro (which I think came first). Quite a lot 'meatier' than the LM Prestige mid so you really can pound the ball. However, for feeding balls to the guys I assist and for general doubles play I think the lighter LM is a better option. Still small enough to cause my wrist no problems but with a bit more zip and more spin potential.

iTxMe
05-22-2005, 09:33 PM
i love the i. prestige, but it's a little too demanding. IT's great for serve and volley!

AndrewD
05-23-2005, 12:49 AM
Why is the iPrestige demanding? Is it because its lighter and has a much lower swingweight than previous Prestige models? I found it very easy to swing and power was more than sufficient, probably more than my Prestige Pro, but I didn't like the response.

I would have thought the older versions were more demanding but that the Prestige in general is far less demanding than other mids and is a much more versatile frame than the other 'big two' - the PS 6.0 85 and POG midplus.

iTxMe
05-23-2005, 12:01 PM
really? i hit w/ ps 6.0 a(orginal + ncode versions + 6.1), diablo and so on...but i. prestige is the one with the least power. I could be wrong b/c problend might be too hard.

AndrewD
05-23-2005, 01:43 PM
Dont really understand what you're saying there. Do you mean ProBlend the string?

Anyway, the iPrestige is (and the specs reiterate this) underweighted that's why its so low powered. You've got a relatively flexible frame with a very low swingweight which adds up to a low power level, even in theory (headsize x stiffness x swingweight /1000 = 93x60x321/1000=1791). Even the ROK has more punch than that. I'm sure if the pros didn't want to switch from the pc600 to the iPrestige thats the main reason.

I don't actually call that demanding, I call it poorly designed. Still, I managed to generate sufficient power with it but didn't like the response. The LM, I think, is an improvement but its not as good as the earlier versions. The tinny feel is the main problem but perhaps a Flexpoint Prestige will remove that and the Prestige will go back to feeling nice and muted.

AndrewD
05-23-2005, 02:59 PM
Thanks guys, its been greatly appreciated. I've decided to go with the Head LM Prestige mid and pretty happy with the choice.
Ive been fortunate enough to have Head offer some assistance so the Head rep is bringing a couple of frames and some bits and pieces over tonight and I'll have plenty of chance to give it a good work-out this week and then in competition on the weekend.

Flatspin
05-23-2005, 05:16 PM
Although I'm a i Prestige mid fan ...... I do also like the LM Prestige mid. The LM mid for me is noticiably heavier ..... evident in the swing weight. I hit well with the LM Mid but I think it would push my endurance levels in a long three set game that it may hinder my success. The i Prestige is at my limit. If I were to change my racquet I would most likely invest in the Yonex RDX 500 mid.

OldSchooLTennis
05-23-2005, 07:37 PM
AndrewD,

Hey regarding the Prestige 600. I used that racquet for about a half hour of straight baseline crushing the ball back and fourth and my wrist felt like it was going to die after. So yeah don't go with that peice of uranium.

AndrewD
05-24-2005, 06:51 AM
Flatspin,
I really hate to think what the weight of the iPrestige really is if its lighter than the LM. After my Prestige Pro I find the LM to swing like a feather. No doubt the CAP guard makes a difference - looks far less solid than the one on my Prestige Pro so Im guessing also far lighter.

OldSchooLTennis,
dont know how the PC600 differs from the Prestige Pro but it is a newer version so would have thought it'd be a touch lighter. One of the reasons Im sticking with the Prestige is the lack of wrist trouble I have when using them. Also am experimenting with a two-handed backhand and I find the Prestige ideal (not loopy topspun backhands but hard, flat ones you hit as early as possible). Gives excellent stability but enough touch to move the return around.

Another good thing I found with the LM is that it responds very well to the cheaper synth gut like Head Synthetic Gut or Synth Gut PPS. Has more of a 'tinny' feel with thin gauge but great spin potential and, with thicker gauge, softens up and increases 'touch'. So, Ive got one strung with 18 gauge and one with 16 and the old Prestige Pro at 17 gauge.