PDA

View Full Version : Stephen Strasburg


Fearsome Forehand
06-09-2010, 09:20 AM
Quite the ML debut for the 15 million $ man.

I hope I'm wrong, but watching him pitch, my first thought was, it will only be a year or two before he develops serious arm problems. But, enjoy it while it lasts. He has really nasty stuff. He is wasted on the Nationals.

10s talk
06-09-2010, 09:35 AM
Why would he have arm problems ?

pc1
06-09-2010, 09:47 AM
I don't know much about pitching motions but I thought I read that some scouts differ on this. Some thought he may have arm problems with his current motion and some didn't.

Who can tell with pitchers? Every pitch can be the last.

downs_chris
06-09-2010, 09:53 AM
Quite the ML debut for the 15 million $ man.

I hope I'm wrong, but watching him pitch, my first thought was, it will only be a year or two before he develops serious arm problems. But, enjoy it while it lasts. He has really nasty stuff. He is wasted on the Nationals.

i was listening to my local radio station -- they had Mitch Williams on there and he pretty much said Strasburg has GREAT mechanics and saw no reason to expect future injury...i mean, this guy (williams) is a studio analyst for MLB network -- he probably knows a little about baseball?

Rockitdog
06-09-2010, 10:02 AM
All the hype reminds of when Kerry Wood came up with the Cubs and he also eventually had arm issues because of his delivery.

hollywood9826
06-09-2010, 10:07 AM
The issue is his hand position in accordance with his elbow and shoulder. Theres is alot of whip action going on that concerns some people about the long term.

http://nbcsportsmedia4.msnbc.com/j/ap/nationals%20strasburg%20baseball--1382138565.hmedium.jpg

Now look at this picture of Verlander in the same position. notice how his elbow and hand are little more horizontal on not forming that reverse V. also if lookat the hand of Strasburg its rotated quite a bit inward which also causes stress on the rotator cuff. Thats probably what you had heard them talking about.

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Justin(4).jpg

hollywood9826
06-09-2010, 10:14 AM
All the hype reminds of when Kerry Wood came up with the Cubs and he also eventually had arm issues because of his delivery.

Good Example

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Images/Pitchers/KerryWood/KerryWood_2007_010.jpg

mikeler
06-09-2010, 10:55 AM
I saw the highlights on ESPN today. I can't recall seeing so much movement on almost every single pitch. From the highlights I saw, every pitch except 3 were over the outsides of the plate. His curve was just plain nasty and his fastball had screwball like action on it.

A friend of mine at lunch commented that he might develop arm problems. Being that my only experience pitching was a few years in Little League, I did not bother to ask him why he made that comment.

Fearsome Forehand
06-09-2010, 11:13 AM
As I said, I hope I'm wrong. My opinion was formed by watching the guy throw about ten pitches. And it was an immediate impression formed prior to hearing anyone express the same concern.

I'm no pitching coach but he seems like too much arm not enough body to me.
Or, maybe I've just see too many phenom power pitchers blow out their arms early in their careers.

hollywood9826
06-09-2010, 11:46 AM
He couldnt throw 100 without involving the lower body. The arm action maight be what gets him from 94-96 range to 98-100 range but has more to do with the movement than anything.

Its just an area of concern, could potentialy be an issue. But at this point you cant drastically change his mechanics you just have to take your chances.

But with Strasburg he has 3 pitches that he was throwing that were pure nasty. His curve (or Slurve as he calls it) is a B+ pitch on its on. But he an A+ fastball to comkpliment it so that B+ Slurve is a solid A pitch. His change up seems effective probably a B- (which is great for a third pitch), but when you throw your change at 90+ some guys (Delwyn young) treat it like a fastball. Thats the only real problem I see with his change.

SlapShot
08-27-2010, 06:59 AM
Huh - do you have tonight's lottery numbers? Seems like you hit the nail on the head with this one.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/101643358.html?elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU&elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU

hollywood9826
08-27-2010, 07:08 AM
Better the elbow than they shoulder. Elbows have a pretty track record of recovery after Tommy John if the proper time is taken to rehab. Shoulders on the other hand never really work the same way.

Heck Tommy John sometimes improves pitchers velocity.

Expect when Strasburg returns they will tame the arm action down a bit. They will work on his mechanics while he rehabs for sure.

Its sad to see it happen some guys can throw like that forever and others break down quick.

SlapShot
08-27-2010, 07:11 AM
I am getting flashbacks (as a Twins fan) to Frankie Liriano. Similar story - hard thrower, nasty stuff, nearly unhittable in his first year.

Tommy John in '06, 4 years later he seems to have found his stuff again. Slider still has the bite, and he's still hitting mid-90's with the fastball.

Fee
08-27-2010, 01:21 PM
Amazes me how often the baseball world seems to forget the lessons of Todd Van Poppel, Ken Griffey Jr, and others like them. Hype is such a four letter word.



(Okay, I know Junior wasn't a complete bust, but he wasn't ever really the second coming that some sold him as).

hollywood9826
08-27-2010, 01:32 PM
I think youre coming down on Griffey wrong here. Yes he was hyped in 1987 when he was drafted. He lpayed 11 years in Seatlle and 2 at Cincy at a very high level. and he has hit 630 career homeruns. He has hit those homeruns without even a hint that used roids.

Yes he was plagued by injury later in his career, but he is still 5th all time in Homeruns and 14th in RBIs, and in the top 5 of defensive 2nd baseman ever. He was also very succesful in what the postseason. I think he more than lived up to the hype.

But Ill give you Van Poppel

r2473
08-27-2010, 01:54 PM
He has hit those homeruns without even a hint that used roids.l

I'd have to agree with this (and everything else you wrote as well):

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/michael_rosenberg/08/20/griffey/index.html

"Whenever Griffey retires he will leave with his reputation intact. Nobody can prove these things, but Griffey is often held up as the one true superstar of his era, the guy who looked into the eye of the syringe and said no. Juicers often defend themselves by saying "you have no idea how hard I work in the weight room," but Griffey has an even better defense: he was never much of a weightlifter.

"I'd bet my life that Ken Griffey Jr. never did steroids," said Sean Casey, who played with Griffey for six seasons in Cincinnati. "I'd bet every dollar I made in my career. He's the one guy I would bet on."

Fearsome Forehand
08-27-2010, 03:57 PM
Huh - do you have tonight's lottery numbers? Seems like you hit the nail on the head with this one.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/101643358.html?elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU&elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU

I take no pleasure in being right on this one. But, like I said in early June, I watched him throw about 10 pitches and immediately thought his arm wasn't going to last very long. Too bad, because he has a lot of talent.

I would bet he is done but hopefully the surgery goes well and he can pitch at a high level again.

One of my old tennis buddies was an early round draft pick and was a year or two away from making millions in MLB as a pitcher. Blew out his rotator cuff one night, career over before he was 25. The attrition rate for pitchers due to injury is very high. Makes one marvel at someone like Nolan Ryan.

Carlito
08-27-2010, 04:12 PM
The issue is his hand position in accordance with his elbow and shoulder. Theres is alot of whip action going on that concerns some people about the long term.

http://nbcsportsmedia4.msnbc.com/j/ap/nationals%20strasburg%20baseball--1382138565.hmedium.jpg

Now look at this picture of Verlander in the same position. notice how his elbow and hand are little more horizontal on not forming that reverse V. also if lookat the hand of Strasburg its rotated quite a bit inward which also causes stress on the rotator cuff. Thats probably what you had heard them talking about.

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Justin(4).jpg



As a tennis note, these is a parallel here that can be used to show good service motion.

The first picture shows what is called "throwing from the hip". He is reaching way back with his arm pointing down towards his hip. This causes a lot of torque on the elbow. Some people THINK they will get a little extra velocity by reaching way back like this because they are using some "whip" effect. The truth is they are just putting unnecessary torque on the elbow.

Now look are Verlander, Arm up, elbow up. He easily throws as hard as Strasburg and has no problem going 9 innings. All the power is generated from this position to the release. This is equivilant to the "trophy position" in tennis. There is no reason to throw, or serve from the hip. Just keep the motion as simple possible.

J011yroger
08-27-2010, 05:34 PM
Junior wasn't a complete bust.

Understatement...

J

hrstrat57
08-27-2010, 05:37 PM
Better the elbow than they shoulder. Elbows have a pretty track record of recovery after Tommy John if the proper time is taken to rehab. Shoulders on the other hand never really work the same way.

Heck Tommy John sometimes improves pitchers velocity.

Expect when Strasburg returns they will tame the arm action down a bit. They will work on his mechanics while he rehabs for sure.

Its sad to see it happen some guys can throw like that forever and others break down quick.

He will need to modify some of the angles in his delivery....has crazy talent, and big arm speed. I would not bet against it.

Shame tho, put a few extra fannies in the seats and blow out the kids arm.

Should have had his technique cleaned up in the minors......

Parker512
08-27-2010, 06:05 PM
Hes haveing tommy john surgery. Source: ESPN

Fee
08-27-2010, 06:06 PM
I think youre coming down on Griffey wrong here. Yes he was hyped in 1987 when he was drafted. He lpayed 11 years in Seatlle and 2 at Cincy at a very high level. and he has hit 630 career homeruns. He has hit those homeruns without even a hint that used roids.

Yes he was plagued by injury later in his career, but he is still 5th all time in Homeruns and 14th in RBIs, and in the top 5 of defensive 2nd baseman ever. He was also very succesful in what the postseason. I think he more than lived up to the hype.

But Ill give you Van Poppel

I was referring to the hype, specifically. I lived in San Bernardino at the time he was drafted and played there for a few weeks, believe me, he was the second coming. The predictions of multiple WS rings, MVP titles, All Star games, etc were shameless. It continued for a few years after he left, but then I moved away and lost track of him (and stopped following baseball). Like I said, I know he wasn't a complete bust (compared to the hype), I know he had a very good career and was widely viewed as pretty classy by his peers and others in the industry, but my point was more about the hype (which may not have been that outrageous to the rest of the country).

Hype is why I was so very cautious about Donald Young a few years ago, and every player who gets that type of attention. Hype leads to pressure, and so many of them cannot handle that pressure.

Mansewerz
08-27-2010, 08:22 PM
As a tennis note, these is a parallel here that can be used to show good service motion.

The first picture shows what is called "throwing from the hip". He is reaching way back with his arm pointing down towards his hip. This causes a lot of torque on the elbow. Some people THINK they will get a little extra velocity by reaching way back like this because they are using some "whip" effect. The truth is they are just putting unnecessary torque on the elbow.

Now look are Verlander, Arm up, elbow up. He easily throws as hard as Strasburg and has no problem going 9 innings. All the power is generated from this position to the release. This is equivilant to the "trophy position" in tennis. There is no reason to throw, or serve from the hip. Just keep the motion as simple possible.

Did Edberg serve from the hip?

quest01
08-28-2010, 02:13 PM
Strasburg is a lost cause, he has a big game but he's fragile and made of glass. He's not going to be a dominating force anymore, this Tommy John surgery will lead him into misery and despair, he might as well retire and call it quits before its too late. Its unfortunate this has to happen to such a promising player but its time he reconsiders professional baseball and go into a different career field. Its a sad story.

hollywood9826
08-28-2010, 08:20 PM
Hes got 15 million coming regardless of what happens. I dont think he needs to worry another career field.

The track record of guys who have gotten Tommy John is good. Ask John Smoltz, he only had like 150+ saves and 67 wins after he got his.