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View Full Version : College football expansion-the tension is killing me!


Kevin T
06-11-2010, 12:11 PM
I know we have a lot of college football fans on here, so let's get talking. We knew Colorado was going to the Pac 10 and Nebraska will likely go Big 10. Boise St just bolted to the MWC. It all hinges on Nebraska and Texas. Supposedly Texas wouldn't go anywhere without Texas A&M but now the rumors are A&M isn't happy with Texas and may jump to the SEC (if offered) with Oklahoma. Is Texas a good fit in the Pac 10? Maybe culturally but not geographically. Two hour time zone differences will be huge. If the Big 12 folds and the SEC tries to poach from the ACC, the Big East is next to fold. It's like when the Soviet Bloc fell!! All fine and dandy...then wham!! Two conferences die and enter the mega-conferences. Thoughts? Hopes? Fears? I would like to see the Big 12 stay together, maybe pick up TCU+1 more to get back to 12. Utah goes west to make the Pac 12. Notre Dame grows a brain and goes Big 10, along with some combination of either Pitt/Rutgers/Syracuse+Nebraska to make 14 teams. The ACC picks up UConn, maybe 'Cuse, Pitt, Nova, Rutgers, Gtown-at least 4 teams to make 16 teams, improved football and a basketball powerhouse. ACC would probably lose a couple of teams to the SEC-Clemson, FSU or Ga Tech seem to be the hot talk. I love college football!! :)

soyizgood
06-11-2010, 12:35 PM
Texas, T A&M, and TTU are going to be stuck together because the Texas Legislature gets the final say. Ditto for Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. (package deal).

The SEC doesn't need to add anybody. They already have a base that stretches from Arkansas to South Carolina with Florida in between. The fastest growing area of the country belongs to them already.

The Big-10 really didn't gain much grabbing Nebraska. Yeah, they get a championship game, but this conference has been Ohio St.'s for some time. Nobody else in that conference is strong enough to make it an appealing title game.

The Big-12 will survive and my guess would be Oklahoma stays. After all, this basically guarantees a BCS spot for them. I'd even guess Texas stays because I don't think the PAC wants to expand so aggressively.

The ACC and Big East have some issues. The ACC's push for 12 really weakened them in both basketball and football, so they'll likely sit on the sidelines. The Big East could make a push, but they already have too many teams for basketball.

Notre Dame might stay independent, but if NBC decides to stop showing them, watch them go to the B-10 or the Big East.

Kevin T
06-11-2010, 01:41 PM
Texas, T A&M, and TTU are going to be stuck together because the Texas Legislature gets the final say. Ditto for Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. (package deal).

The SEC doesn't need to add anybody. They already have a base that stretches from Arkansas to South Carolina with Florida in between. The fastest growing area of the country belongs to them already.

The Big-10 really didn't gain much grabbing Nebraska. Yeah, they get a championship game, but this conference has been Ohio St.'s for some time. Nobody else in that conference is strong enough to make it an appealing title game.

The Big-12 will survive and my guess would be Oklahoma stays. After all, this basically guarantees a BCS spot for them. I'd even guess Texas stays because I don't think the PAC wants to expand so aggressively.

The ACC and Big East have some issues. The ACC's push for 12 really weakened them in both basketball and football, so they'll likely sit on the sidelines. The Big East could make a push, but they already have too many teams for basketball.

Notre Dame might stay independent, but if NBC decides to stop showing them, watch them go to the B-10 or the Big East.

How Texas Tech is part of the argument, God only knows. They don't have the academic or athletic chops. A couple of good football years doesn't qualify, IMHO. The legislature has the final say but $$ always talks and A&M going to the SEC/Texas to Pac 10 is big $$.

The SEC doesn't need anyone but if their dominance/revenue are threatened, heck, even challenged, they'll move. Honestly, I could care less if FSU went to the SEC. They're the academic red-headed stepchild of the ACC and sure haven't held up their football end of the bargain.

I agree about Nebraska. They have great history and will travel very well but what's the real allure? I have a lot of respect for the Big 10 schools but the rust belt's future doesn't look so hot. The talent/population boom is in the South, Texas and California. The Big 10 really needs Notre Dame but what have they done lately? When the current TV deal ends, they'll get nothing else even close. If the Big East folds, their athletic teams have to land somewhere and there is 0% chance of Notre Dame football going to the Big East.

The ACC may lose 1-3 teams to the SEC if it gets to that, but the Big East and not the ACC would be the next conference to go. The ACC will take their best and the Big East will be 'bye bye'.

West Coast Ace
06-11-2010, 01:45 PM
Overall, I think this is unfortunate. I assume that if the Pac 10 goes to 14 or 16 teams then the matchups like USC-UCLA, Stanford-Cal, etc... won't be played every year. That would be sad.

But if it leads to a real +2 Playoff system I'm more than willing to see Tradition go down the crapper...

Kevin T
06-11-2010, 01:57 PM
Overall, I think this is unfortunate. I assume that if the Pac 10 goes to 14 or 16 teams then the matchups like USC-UCLA, Stanford-Cal, etc... won't be played every year. That would be sad.

But if it leads to a real +2 Playoff system I'm more than willing to see Tradition go down the crapper...

Yeah, you couldn't fit everyone in to one season. But I'm with you that if a +2 comes about, it's worth all the chaos. And maybe the top dawgs will stop scheduling 1-2 cream puffs every year and play a straight conference schedule.

TommieF
06-13-2010, 10:59 PM
Big 10 did good by getting Nebraska. The Huskers are a solid program that will fit into the Big 10. Academics and Athletics. If the Big 10 grabs Notre Dame and one other school next year to go along with Nebraska, they did great.

jamesblakefan#1
06-14-2010, 01:02 AM
The Big-10 really didn't gain much grabbing Nebraska. Yeah, they get a championship game, but this conference has been Ohio St.'s for some time. Nobody else in that conference is strong enough to make it an appealing title game.


Joe Pa would like a word with you...

http://messengerpuppet.com/Gettingsmallertogetbigger_9317/JoePaterno.jpg

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OT: I think this whole thing shows that college sports is all about the money and nothing about the traditions and other BS they like to spin. It also further points out the hypocricy of not compensating these 'student-athletes' who are truly making all of this money for these college presidents.

Sorry if that's too political for you guys, that's my take on it. It saddens me to see CFB turn into one big conference raiding clusterf**k, but it is what it is I guess. Money wins out over rivalries, and whatever tradition CFB had further goes out of the window and dies, as if the BCS didn't do that already.

West Coast Ace
06-14-2010, 05:00 AM
..that college sports is all about the money and nothing about the traditions...I'm with you. That they can say what they do about worry about studies, etc.. with a straight face is impressive.

...not compensating these 'student-athletes' who are truly making all of this money for these college presidents.
Not with you on this one. a) it's the 'slippery slope' - once you start paying then players will take money under the table and when caught say 'I thought it was ok - I'm worth more than...'; b) the teams trade the education (players' decision to take advantage or not) and their reputation and exposure on TV to the players for their efforts. Big schools are constant; players come and go.

soyizgood
06-14-2010, 07:25 AM
Joe Pa would like a word with you...

http://messengerpuppet.com/Gettingsmallertogetbigger_9317/JoePaterno.jpg

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OT: I think this whole thing shows that college sports is all about the money and nothing about the traditions and other BS they like to spin. It also further points out the hypocricy of not compensating these 'student-athletes' who are truly making all of this money for these college presidents.

Sorry if that's too political for you guys, that's my take on it. It saddens me to see CFB turn into one big conference raiding clusterf**k, but it is what it is I guess. Money wins out over rivalries, and whatever tradition CFB had further goes out of the window and dies, as if the BCS didn't do that already.

Paterno was mainly trying to outlast Bowden in the race for wins. With Florida St. getting some wins stripped away and with Bowden quitting, he should just retire peacefully. Penn St. needs some new blood. Would you want Paterno as a coach when he's 80 something years old and not "hip" to the changing times? I love Paterno, but sooner or later Penn St. needs to start in a new direction.

Kevin T
06-14-2010, 08:54 AM
Joe Pa would like a word with you...

http://messengerpuppet.com/Gettingsmallertogetbigger_9317/JoePaterno.jpg

-----

OT: I think this whole thing shows that college sports is all about the money and nothing about the traditions and other BS they like to spin. It also further points out the hypocricy of not compensating these 'student-athletes' who are truly making all of this money for these college presidents.

Sorry if that's too political for you guys, that's my take on it. It saddens me to see CFB turn into one big conference raiding clusterf**k, but it is what it is I guess. Money wins out over rivalries, and whatever tradition CFB had further goes out of the window and dies, as if the BCS didn't do that already.


Of course it's about money. The reason the Pac 10 is giving up their "holier than thou" academic attitude is TV markets and $$. They have preached the "we're just as concerned with academic excellence as athletic excellence" more than anyone. And now they're willing to bring in OK, OK St and Texas Tech, schools that are barely Tier 2 per the US News ratings, for the cash cow that is Texas. The Pac 10 needs to drop the whole "academic" argument anyway, as they have 5 top 50 schools, just like the Big 10, while the ACC has 7. Go to 50-100 and the Pac only adds one more school, so 6 schools in the top 100. All the Big 10 schools are top 75 academically (until they added Nebraska) as are all but 1 in the ACC (guess who...FSU, who the ACC added ONLY for football reasons). And Texas needs to drop the whole "we can't consider the SEC because of academic reasons", because the SEC and Big 12 are nearly identical academically. Vandy is a top 20 school (something the Big 12 doesn't have) and Texas and Florida have virtually the same ranking. Regardless, TV markets and $$ are driving it all. I do find it very interesting that Texas A&M seems to be breaking with Texas and prefers the SEC.

I have mixed feelings about the whole mess. I think we would see better games and the power schools would schedule fewer cupcake games due to conference size. The regular season would probably weed out all but the top 2-3 contenders. The sad things are the loss of traditional rivalries and virtually guaranteeing that the title game contenders would always come from 2-3 conferences. But honestly, is that any different from the current situation? It's always SEC, Big 12, Pac 10 and Big 10, err, Ohio State. :)

I don't want to see the ACC raided by the SEC, then have the Big East destroyed by the Big 10 and ACC. As a Va Tech alumnus and player, I don't want to see them go to the SEC, which is a big rumor right now. UVA pretty much blocked any other approval to get Va Tech in, so I would like to see them stay.

I guess we'll know by the end of the week.

jamesblakefan#1
06-14-2010, 12:36 PM
Paterno was mainly trying to outlast Bowden in the race for wins. With Florida St. getting some wins stripped away and with Bowden quitting, he should just retire peacefully. Penn St. needs some new blood. Would you want Paterno as a coach when he's 80 something years old and not "hip" to the changing times? I love Paterno, but sooner or later Penn St. needs to start in a new direction.

They were trying to push him out a few yrs ago, but 2 Big Ten titles the past 5 years pretty much earned him a ticket for life. If he wants to coach til he drops dead (sorry to be so morbid about it), he's probably earned that right now.

Not with you on this one. a) it's the 'slippery slope' - once you start paying then players will take money under the table and when caught say 'I thought it was ok - I'm worth more than...'; b) the teams trade the education (players' decision to take advantage or not) and their reputation and exposure on TV to the players for their efforts. Big schools are constant; players come and go.

You really think players don't take money under the table already? Reggie Bush was the only one w/ some shady dealings going on? Yeah right...

The 'booster' culture in college sports says enough about that matter. If anything giving athletes some sort of stipend would give the non-major schools a better shot at bringing in certain recruits, without the big schools using their usual tricks. But we can agree to disagree on that one, I know that's going to be a hard one to change.

borg number one
06-14-2010, 12:55 PM
The latest news seems to be that Texas and a few other schools may stay with the Big 12. Texas A&M meanwhile, could be headed to the SEC, but we'll see. No matter what, one thing is clear, almost any conference would benefit from having UT in its conference. In terms of academics, athletics, you name it, UT is up there. A few years ago, UT and Stanford were rated as the top NCAA schools in terms of overall NCAA results across all sports. UT's angling for its own TV network could be the deal clincher which causes them to ultimately stay in the Big 12, with perhaps schools like TCU and UH coming to the Big 12 as an attempt to reconstitute the old "SWC" so to speak. Finally, as to UT academics. They do very well no matter what discipline and at both the under grad and grad level. They also d very well when compared to both public and private Universities. In terms of academics at big State schools, UT-Austin, U. of Michigan, and UC-Berkeley tend to gravitate towards the top of a lot of rankings, no matter what field you are talking about. Also, UT tends to have nearly unmatched financial resources for everything. UT is my alma mater. I am hoping they stay in the Big 12 and get their own network. Looks like this could be "goodbye Aggies" in terms of sharing a conference. I'll miss UT beating them so much, truly. You have to love the Aggies. Maybe they will flourish after emerging from UT's "shadow".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_at_Austin

The University of Texas at Austin was named one of the original eight Public Ivy institutions[11] and was inducted into the American Association of Universities in 1929.[12] The university is a major center for academic research, with research expenditures exceeding $590 million in 2009.[13] The University of Texas at Austin operates various auxiliary facilities aside from the main campus, including the J. J. Pickle Research Campus. In addition, the university was recognized by Sports Illustrated as "America's Best Sports College" in 2002.[14] Its sports program has been dubbed the most successful in all of college sports.[15]

BullDogTennis
06-14-2010, 01:02 PM
why would the SEC even want texas A&M? they don't need anyone else...they already have the most grueling in conference schedule in the land....why do they want to add more? plus if they added one, they'd most likely ahve to add another (on the east side...because if A&M came in, they would be in the SEC west, giving that side 7 teams, while the SEC east would one have 6 teams....

borg number one
06-14-2010, 01:07 PM
why would the SEC even want texas A&M? they don't need anyone else...they already have the most grueling in conference schedule in the land....why do they want to add more? plus if they added one, they'd most likely ahve to add another (on the east side...because if A&M came in, they would be in the SEC west, giving that side 7 teams, while the SEC east would one have 6 teams....

Excellent question. A&M does have a lot going for it as a school, and having lived in College Station when I was younger, as well as in Alabama, I can definitely see how A&M could eventually be a good fit for the SEC. I'll tell you one thing, A&M tends to be CRAZY about its football, much like other SEC schools. At UT, the same is true, but we tend to be more, well let's hope they win the National Title this year, wouldn't that be great. If not, well at least we are in the top-10 every year. That's sort of the general attitude versus more "die hard" Aggie football fans.

Kevin T
06-14-2010, 01:28 PM
The latest news seems to be that Texas and a few other schools may stay with the Big 12. Texas A&M meanwhile, could be headed to the SEC, but we'll see. No matter what, one thing is clear, almost any conference would benefit from having UT in its conference. In terms of academics, athletics, you name it, UT is up there. A few years ago, UT and Stanford were rated as the top NCAA schools in terms of overall NCAA results across all sports. UT's angling for its own TV network could be the deal clincher which causes them to ultimately stay in the Big 12, with perhaps schools like TCU and UH coming to the Big 12 as an attempt to reconstitute the old "SWC" so to speak. Finally, as to UT academics. They do very well no matter what discipline and at both the under grad and grad level. They also d very well when compared to both public and private Universities. In terms of academics at big State schools, UT-Austin, U. of Michigan, and UC-Berkeley tend to gravitate towards the top of a lot of rankings, no matter what field you are talking about. Also, UT tends to have nearly unmatched financial resources for everything. UT is my alma mater. I am hoping they stay in the Big 12 and get their own network. Looks like this could be "goodbye Aggies" in terms of sharing a conference. I'll miss UT beating them so much, truly. You have to love the Aggies. Maybe they will flourish after emerging from UT's "shadow".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_at_Austin


I agree, UT is an excellent academic institution. My point is they need to drop the posturing RE the SEC's academics, which are, at the least, on par with the Big 12. Vandy is a top 20 school overall and in business and top 10 in medicine and education. And all schools, not just UT and the Pac 10, need to drop the "potential improvements to non-revenue sports" line, as well. This whole mess is about football and $$. These conference presidents aren't even considering men's basketball, much less swimming, diving, water polo, etc.

Dedans Penthouse
06-14-2010, 04:49 PM
ESPN's just reported that Texas is staying put in the Big 12.

It appears that the Longhorns have long coat tails as well. Following Texas' lead, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas A&M are staying put as well.

side-bar:
One Big 12 team that's going to be getting the cold shoulder from their Big 12 bretheren is Missouri. When rumors of the Big-10 and the Pac-10 making overtures to existing Big 12 schools first surfaced, Missouri overplayed its hand and pretty much told the Big-10: "take us!" before any of the other Big-12 schools were formally approached.

And word had it that if it weren't for the fact that the Big-12 was up to its neck with trying to protect against even bigger fish (Texas) from jumping to the Pac-10, the Big-12 conference was so miffed at Mizzou that the conference 'powers' were considering voting on whether to throw Mizzou out of the conference altogether. However the dust settles, there will be some chilly feelings directed towards Mizzou from other Big-12 schools....wouldn't be surprise if someone ran it up on the Tigers if given the chance.

soyizgood
06-14-2010, 05:01 PM
I knew Texas and Oklahoma would likely stay in the B-12 (10). They might be able to poach two more schools to get back to 12 (maybe TCU, Utah, BYU). So I suspect the WAC will come under attack from both the B-12 and Pac-10. Maybe the Pac-10 goes after Utah and/or BYU just to get to 12. I doubt the PAC-10 wants a school like UNLV, but Fresno St. or San Diego St. is a possibility.

West Coast Ace
06-14-2010, 06:14 PM
ESPN News is saying the the Big 12 TV contract will now pay double what it did previously. So this turned into high stakes poker - and TX won on the river...

Pac-10 gave it a good shot. I wonder if they would have pulled it off if it weren't for the Internet and 24 hr cable. Back in the day they could have done the deal, kept it quiet, and no one would have found out until the deal was signed.

hollywood9826
06-14-2010, 08:12 PM
I guess Texas is looking at 20-25 mill a year from the TV deal while the other schools are also getting a hefty chunk.

We also got the report of Fed-Ex apparently offering 10mil to whichever BCS confereance will take Memphis.

Coolege sports is all about money. I was hoping to see 4 big time confereances with about 50-60 schools tell the NCAA to suck it and schedule their own postseason playoff. leave the NCAA and BCS completly out of it.

But I kinda new the Big-12 (10) would pay up to prevent the PAC 10 from becoming the PAC-16. heck the Big 10 (12) is not good to go. But nebraska and Mizzou fir better in the Big 10 anyway.

borg number one
06-14-2010, 08:34 PM
I agree, UT is an excellent academic institution. My point is they need to drop the posturing RE the SEC's academics, which are, at the least, on par with the Big 12. Vandy is a top 20 school overall and in business and top 10 in medicine and education. And all schools, not just UT and the Pac 10, need to drop the "potential improvements to non-revenue sports" line, as well. This whole mess is about football and $$. These conference presidents aren't even considering men's basketball, much less swimming, diving, water polo, etc.

I hear you and I agree. Football is the key driver here. It's strange isn't it? College football really is big business and is so vital even to academic recruitment. Great football results tends to bring the spotlight on a school, as more and more young people want to attend. I'm a Longhorn through and through, that's for sure. Thanks for the reply. I do agree with you, overall SEC academics are definitely comparable to Big 12 academics. I'm glad that A&M will remain in the same conference with UT.