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Cindysphinx
06-25-2010, 08:01 PM
Oh, lordie. Here we go again.

Middle kid just got her permit. All of a sudden, I am expected to morph from ordinary citizen to Super Driving Instructor.

Have you ever taught anyone to drive? It requires mental focus like you wouldn't believe. Day One a few weeks ago was an hour circling a parking lot at about 4 miles per hour. Just when you drop your guard even a little bit, they are veering into the bushes. It takes hours just to get them not to panic or freeze at the sight of another moving vehicle.

Then consider that there are many things an experienced driver has done so many times that she no longer remembers what the steps are. I actually had to get in the driver's seat to recall exactly where you should be looking when you back up, and how much is mirrors versus turning around.

Tonight's hour-long lesson: Backing up when you are facing down a hill and using low gear on hills. This involved driving to a neighborhood with big hills and not much traffic, getting her at the base of a hill facing down it, and then getting her not to shriek when the car lurched forward when she went from brake to gas. When she seemed to get the hang of it, I saw that she was using her left foot on the brake. : slaps forehead: Had to start all over.

Honestly, I don't think I could survive it were it not for the three huge magnetic placards I purchased that say "Student Driver" in big red letters. At least people don't tailgate and flash their brights at her.

Cindy -- who still thinks daughter is not ready to drive in daylight because the roads are so much more congested

Don S
06-25-2010, 08:20 PM
Yeah, I share your pain! Now imagine what life was like for me having to teach my kids not just how to drive, but doing it in a car that had a manual transmission. Let me tell you how especially fun it was teaching them to parallel park that car!!! They eventually learned but the clutch died a horrible, torturous death lol. Still though, I wish I could turn back time and have them be that age again.

hollywood9826
06-25-2010, 08:26 PM
I went to driving school. MD required you go before you turn 18.

Then I just drove. not much teaching by my parents. Its pretty easy to do takes about an hour to figure it it out. If they are running into bushes than they are just terrible drivers and no way reflect on a typical teenager.

Hollywood -- Who thinks parents sometimes exaggerate how bad children drive :)

GPG
06-25-2010, 08:33 PM
Just try to send her to a driving school. Some years ago, my dad tried to teach me (it was more practice actually) how to drive and we ended up fighting everytime. I went out to practice with an ex gf and it also brought us some fights (but she was de one arguing with me because she couldn't drive correctley)

fed_the_savior
06-26-2010, 12:36 AM
It might help to look at it a little differently. Develop a little patience and friendship, and maybe it won't seem so bad to spend time helping your own child out in life. It's been a while since I've seen so much whine in so little problem. I'm sure glad the person that helped me wasn't frustrated or angry.

Don S
06-26-2010, 02:20 AM
.

Hollywood -- Who thinks parents sometimes exaggerate how bad children drive :)

Walk into the office of your auto insurance agent and make that statement. Then get back to us on how that conversation turned out :)

mozzer
06-26-2010, 03:40 AM
Hah, im learning too, only problem i had at the start was pulling, damn clutch! Bet that was annoying for my dad too but i have my driving test on 30th july (waiting list is around 8/9 weeks!) and i should fly it!

FlamEnemY
06-26-2010, 03:44 AM
Yeah, I share your pain! Now imagine what life was like for me having to teach my kids not just how to drive, but doing it in a car that had a manual transmission.

But I bet it was worth it. I think learning to drive a car with manual transmission gives much more "feel" of what the car can and can't do, and as such you become a better driver.

El Diablo
06-26-2010, 06:27 AM
Is this the same kid who made the pediatrician yawn all the time in a thread you posted previously? And now you find it "exhausting" to teach your kid to drive? Maybe you just have kids who wear people out?? I found it gratifying and not terribly tiring to teach my daughter to drive. She's done fine, can't blame her for the guy on the Kawasaki bullet bike who hit her from behind and literally flew over her car.

Cindysphinx
06-26-2010, 11:53 AM
Is this the same kid who made the pediatrician yawn all the time in a thread you posted previously?

No. Try to pay attention. Sheez.

I think she'll learn to drive. You could probably teach a chimp to drive a car.

What is difficult is teaching her how to do it *well.* How to anticipate, how to drive defensively -- that is the hardest part.

Like tennis, it's all mental.

It is weird that we entrust something so important -- instruction in how to operate a motor vehicle -- to the parents. Most people are bad driver's themselves and presumably pass their bad habit on to their kids.

Kobble
06-26-2010, 12:46 PM
Driving isn't too hard. The kid should be almost fine after one week. About one month and you should be competent. Mentality is the hard part to coach.

I'll give you my advice. Go out to an isolated dirt road for the first 2-3 times they drive. My friend stole his mother's car, and that is how we started, on dirt roads. I wouldn't force a kid to go out on the main roads until they want to do so themselves. Dirt roads are great because there are no police, and very little traffic. Never go to an area where police patrol a lot, until they are aware of how cops think (you know, monthly quota). My driving record, except for two seat belt tickets is spotless for over 12 years.

Here is my tips to your daughter:

COPS ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND! If they pull you over, you are probably getting a ticket. You stand a better chance in court than with the officer.

-If a cop is approaching while you are at a red light, put your seat belt on. Get tinted windows so they can't see in.

-If you think a cop has it in for you, pull in to the nearest shopping center before they get behind you, and get out of the car, and go in the store. These guys will follow you back to your house looking for anything to pull you over. Going 1 mph over the limit, break light out, no seat belt, etc., is all game for them. Expect this behavior at the end of the month when they need to make the quota.

-If the cops pull you over, don't say anything. They may be trying to record what you say to get further charges on you. For instance, like getting you to falsely admit you are sleep deprived by admitting how many hours you have been awake. Give them what they need, but don't tell them what they want to hear. If it is about a quota, they are only trying to get you to talk so they can make the quota all in one stop.

1. Don't tell them where you are coming from.

2. Don't tell them where you work.

3. Don't say anything that admits GUILT.

4. Don't say who your friends are.

5. Where you live is on your license. If they ask you where you live, they may be trying to say your license is not up to date and fine you if the city doesn't match.

You were going 50 in a 45.
Daughter answers: Really? Hmmm. Oh.

I see you weren't wearing your seatbelt.
Answers: Hmmm. Oh. Huh? Here is my licence, registration, and insurance.

Janne
06-26-2010, 01:18 PM
But I bet it was worth it. I think learning to drive a car with manual transmission gives much more "feel" of what the car can and can't do, and as such you become a better driver.
Agreed.

On an unrelated note, I personally don't think one can say that they "can drive a car" if they can't drive a car with manual transmission.

beedlejuice22
06-26-2010, 01:26 PM
Im 16 and I just got my license a few days ago so I know what it's like for your daughter. Be as patient as possible with her and don't let her know you're scared.

Tina
06-26-2010, 03:05 PM
Cindy, I failed my driving tests twice before I got my permit. I attended driving school for 3 months:)

SuperDuy
06-26-2010, 03:20 PM
got my license a 8 - 10 months ago, had an instructor from the middle east for 2 months, had trouble communicating with him, had a good goof ball friend as a person in the back seat that would switch with you after an hour. This instructor would panic so much, just about 3 crashes got into all not my fault. This one time the other car was 1 foot away from hitting. I was driving on a green through the inersection of a 1 way street, then this old lady comes out of nowhere just about infront of us. Instructor got ****ed and my friend could not stop laughing, he got kicked out of the car after that. If I was going maybe 2 above the speed limit instructor "Sssslow down." every 5 seconds. Im glad its over and I can drive with parents.

jswinf
06-26-2010, 04:27 PM
There's a lot to be said for driver's ed classes. (Do they still have those?)

BullDogTennis
06-26-2010, 10:05 PM
um...i don't think i was ever "told" or "taught" how to drive...its pretty self explanatory...and i would say it worked out pretty good, i have had no tickets or no wrecks that wernt my fault (some lady did rear end me while i was stopped at a red light, about 6 months after i got my license) knock on wood.

and i don't know where you live Kobble...but i know for a FACT, police around here do NOT have a 'quota?' every month...how do i know this for sure, might you ask? one of my brothers best friend is a police officer, of whom i have drank around (i am 19) and he does not care, so i know he would not be lying to me.

sometimes cops are just in a ****y mood, and want to pull you over...

Tina
06-27-2010, 07:53 PM
There's a lot to be said for driver's ed classes. (Do they still have those?)

Yes, they are. Looking it up in the yellow pages.

cghipp
06-27-2010, 08:20 PM
I think learning to drive a car with manual transmission gives much more "feel" of what the car can and can't do, and as such you become a better driver.I couldn't agree more! It makes such a tremendous difference. It can be hard for kids to find a manual to practice on, though. I don't even own one now, because my husband can't drive one.

TennisandMusic
06-27-2010, 09:13 PM
So the daughter is driving into bushes, and the mom has to be behind the wheel to remember where to look when backing up? Sounds to me like there are some bad driver genes in there somewhere... ;)

CanadianChic
06-27-2010, 09:16 PM
I feel your pain Cindy.

Drop Shot 11
06-28-2010, 08:01 AM
My Dad tought me to drive stick in 1.5 days on my 2002 WRX. Never smelled clutch, and only stalled 3 times.

Now, 1.5 years later, I'm a good driver: going to autocross's, I heel-toe-clutch, I rev-match and I know how to take my car apart and put it back together. (well the engine at least)

jmverdugo
06-28-2010, 08:10 AM
I think a good way to teach them to drive is to do it little by little, like for instance, you can ask them to wash your car and after that they can put the car back in to the garage, next time you can go with them for a ride around the block, and so on. That is how my father tought us (all 4 of us!).

Also I think the hardest part of driving is not to change gears, is to keep the car on the channel. Once you learn that driving a manual car is really easy.

spaceman_spiff
06-28-2010, 08:15 AM
I think there's a lot to be said about starting early.

Whenever my dad and I went somewhere together when I was a kid, he'd point out things from time to time about driving, other drivers, and so on. So, from an early age, he had already started on my road awareness, but without turning it into some sort of boring lecture.

By the time I got my permit, I just needed to get a feel for the car itself (and a manual transmission). I already knew what to do for the most part; I just needed to learn how to do it smoothly.

I never understood the kids in my driver's ed classes who looked completely unaware of what goes on on the roads, like the whole idea of a set of moving vehicles travelling at the same time was like something out of a fantasy movie. Didn't they ever look out the window when they were kids?

I imagine learning that and getting a feel for the car at the same time would be quite daunting.

Edit: oh, I forgot about learning to ride a motorcycle a bit as a kid. I imagine that helped quite a bit.

ollinger
06-28-2010, 08:42 AM
So teaching your kid to drive is "the most difficult and exhausting job"? So much for perspective -- any coal miners out there agree with her assessment?

Janne
06-28-2010, 09:34 AM
It can be hard for kids to find a manual to practice on, though.
Are manual cars really that rare over in the States (assumption on my part, please correct my if I'm wrong)?

cncretecwbo
06-28-2010, 05:56 PM
Im gonna guess your kid hasnt driven a go kart or played many video games involving driving

cghipp
06-28-2010, 06:42 PM
Are manual cars really that rare over in the States (assumption on my part, please correct my if I'm wrong)?It's not like you can't get one, but they're getting more rare all the time. Each year, fewer models have a manual option, and fewer buyers want a manual. Also, I don't think there's such a great difference in gas mileage between manuals and automatics as there used to be, so there's not as much incentive to buy one as there once was.

I sold my VW Golf about six years ago because my husband couldn't drive it. Neither of his parents knew how to drive one, and he was from a relatively rural area where you would expect more kids to learn to drive a "stick." I would have taught him to drive my car, but I just had a feeling that it would be too hard once you've already been driving for 20+ years. Maybe not, but I could just see him pulling out into traffic with the baby in the back seat, and having trouble getting into the next gear... I didn't have a great feeling about it! It is true that he doesn't have a great "feel" for driving, and I do wonder if that's just him, or if it would be different if he'd learned to drive a manual first.

goober
06-29-2010, 08:24 AM
I don't remember my parents being too involved. I took drivers ed through my high school which was class work and actual driving. My older sister also drove with me a bit before I took the license test.

ls206
06-29-2010, 08:28 AM
hehe I love it, for the past couple of weeks I've had my mum nag me to get my provisional license and I'm visiting home for a couple of days and she's asking me to go out driving haha

GPB
06-29-2010, 09:23 AM
I think there's a lot to be said about starting early.

Whenever my dad and I went somewhere together when I was a kid, he'd point out things from time to time about driving, other drivers, and so on. So, from an early age, he had already started on my road awareness, but without turning it into some sort of boring lecture.

By the time I got my permit, I just needed to get a feel for the car itself (and a manual transmission). I already knew what to do for the most part; I just needed to learn how to do it smoothly.

I never understood the kids in my driver's ed classes who looked completely unaware of what goes on on the roads, like the whole idea of a set of moving vehicles travelling at the same time was like something out of a fantasy movie. Didn't they ever look out the window when they were kids?

I imagine learning that and getting a feel for the car at the same time would be quite daunting.

Amen to everything said above. ^.^

As a kid, I thought it was SO COOL when my dad would give me driving tips while I sat in the passenger's seat. He taught me about manual transmissions, and how the clutch works. He taught me about planning ahead, always having an "oh ****" plan, like "what would you do if this car swerved into your lane" type stuff. Think ahead, plan for the worst.

I learned to drive with that standard transmission, and to get a feel for it I had to drive around the neighborhood with no gas pedal. That really gives you a feel for the clutch, and I've used the same method to teach my wife to drive a stick now.

Anyways, start the kids early with the mental side of driving, and when they get behind the wheel the hard part is behind them. That's all I'm trying to say.

sureshs
06-29-2010, 10:03 AM
I don't remember my parents being too involved. I took drivers ed through my high school which was class work and actual driving. My older sister also drove with me a bit before I took the license test.

High schools don't offer those any more

sureshs
06-29-2010, 10:05 AM
It has become dangerous to drive with all the higher powered engines around

cghipp
06-29-2010, 11:29 AM
I also agree with spaceman_spiff's "starting early" post. Also, I think one of the greatest tools when learning to drive is a gigantic empty parking lot. (Especially when learning to shift gears.) I remember learning to drive and parallel park in the Winthrop University (then college) coliseum parking lot, and driving around the one-mile loop behind it many, many times.

One word of advice: if you give your kid a beater to learn on, make sure it will at least get him or her through the driving test! I learned to drive a stick first, but took my test in my grandmom's old Chevy Impala, a beast of an 8-cylinder automatic that was probably running on four. It probably didn't help that my grandmom had wrecked it several times, and it looked it. The car stalled about four times during the test - basically, whenever I came to a complete stop. I was so rattled (and was so nervous anyway), I would forget what my next instruction was. So, I failed. The next time I took a different, but more reliable crap car (a manual this time) and passed easily.

I'm not going to spend a lot of money on whatever car we get for our kids, but I will at least make sure it's reliable. About a year later, the accelerator stuck in the middle of a turn on that same car... Could have been a disaster. Lesson learned, for me.

Kobble
06-29-2010, 12:23 PM
I agree with most other stuff. The qouta thing. I have predominantly been pulled over at the end of the month. Only once was I not wearing a hat. Officers will tail you if you have a hat on or longer than normal hair.

Hats - Apparently cops target people with hats on.
Long hair - Even much shorter than old Nadal will get you followed. Cops can't wear longer hair by code, so they have issues.
Old decals - Any old decals from Universities or colleges are big bulls eyes for cops. Cops assume you must have bought the car used from a good person, but you are a meth smoking loser.

Greatful Dead stickers (On a Cadillac. :)) - You will find a fat police officer on your tail.

Scuba sticker - This makes you look like you have a life, and date fun and attractive women. How dare you.

How to avoid the cops

Women

Don't go out after 9 p.m. - You have no business in some cops eyes, but to be home tucking little Johnny in, and cleaning the house.

Get married - Respectable women are not independent.

Get kind of fat.

Be unattractive, but clean.

Look stupid and inferior.

Drive a mini van.

Put kiddy stickers on your van. Like, a little league baseball sticker.

Cops will not feel threatened by your inferior persona.

Men

Now, this depends, because cops feel threatened by men.

Short hair

Glasses

Skinny but out of shape.

Drive something like a new Accord.

Look like a wuss, but a respectable wuss. You know, with a fat wife, and a kid in baseball.


Essentially, cops are like a fun tax. If you want to be happy, you gotta' pay up.

Kobble
06-29-2010, 12:32 PM
I also agree with spaceman_spiff's "starting early" post. Also, I think one of the greatest tools when learning to drive is a gigantic empty parking lot. (Especially when learning to shift gears.) I remember learning to drive and parallel park in the Winthrop University (then college) coliseum parking lot, and driving around the one-mile loop behind it many, many times.

One word of advice: if you give your kid a beater to learn on, make sure it will at least get him or her through the driving test! I learned to drive a stick first, but took my test in my grandmom's old Chevy Impala, a beast of an 8-cylinder automatic that was probably running on four. It probably didn't help that my grandmom had wrecked it several times, and it looked it. The car stalled about four times during the test - basically, whenever I came to a complete stop. I was so rattled (and was so nervous anyway), I would forget what my next instruction was. So, I failed. The next time I took a different, but more reliable crap car (a manual this time) and passed easily.

I'm not going to spend a lot of money on whatever car we get for our kids, but I will at least make sure it's reliable. About a year later, the accelerator stuck in the middle of a turn on that same car... Could have been a disaster. Lesson learned, for me.If you get your kid and old beater, puts a Marines sticker on the window. The cops will respect that.

sureshs
06-29-2010, 12:39 PM
I feel your pain Cindy.

How can you feel her pain? You haven't taught a kid to drive.

cghipp
06-29-2010, 01:22 PM
If you get your kid and old beater, puts a Marines sticker on the window. The cops will respect that.I don't have to worry about the cops, because I keep to a reasonable speed and don't drive like an idiot. I respect them, and as a result I am treated with respect. On the rare occasions that I have gotten pulled, I have deserved it, as I suspect you have as well.

In most situations, the cops have plenty of blatant offenders to choose from to have to worry about whether somebody is wearing a hat or not. Or whether they look married, lol.

Not sure why you're so paranoid, but I've never heard a good driver complain about being targeted by the cops or spend so much time thinking about avoidance measures. Unless DWB is a common occurrence in your area - and you're actually in the targeted group for that - I doubt you have any legitimate reason to complain.

Kobble
06-29-2010, 02:40 PM
I don't have to worry about the cops, because I keep to a reasonable speed and don't drive like an idiot. I respect them, and as a result I am treated with respect. On the rare occasions that I have gotten pulled, I have deserved it, as I suspect you have as well. Somewhat. When I was 17 I got pulled over for going 50 something in a 30 mph. However, I was pulled over before I got to the 30 mph sign. The sign before that was 45 mph. My fine would have been reduced had I brought evidence of the posted limit.



In most situations, the cops have plenty of blatant offenders to choose from to have to worry about whether somebody is wearing a hat or not. Or whether they look married, lol. Yes, I have these offenders, too. Pretty blondes in nice cars coming home from work are the biggest offenders. Sharapova in an Acura wouldn't stand a chance.




Not sure why you're so paranoid, but I've never heard a good driver complain about being targeted by the cops or spend so much time thinking about avoidance measures. Unless DWB is a common occurrence in your area - and you're actually in the targeted group for that - I doubt you have any legitimate reason to complain.Well, you just did. I stopped believing in cops a long time ago.

Here are my traffic stops from A-Z.

Speeding (17 years old)

Brake light out. (~21 years old) - Couldn't find the registration. It was my father's. Had to prove the car was registered to waive fine; no problem.

Brake light out. (~23 years old) - Resulted in seat belt fine $25.00.

Headlights were slightly dim. Still very acceptable. (alternator problems). -Cop asked me if my licence would come back suspended or any warrants. No fine.

Middle Brake light out (~26). Not even one of the two tail lights, the extra one inside the car window.(~26 years old). No fine.

Not wearing seat belt (~29-30) - Law was changed despite my knowledge. Before that, you had to commit another real offense to be cited. Switched so they can pull you over for just the belt. I was fined over $100. Cop was trying to get me to falsely admit to being sleep deprived; I was clearly not. This was at 8:30 a.m. on my way to work. Asked me to get out of the car. Tried to insinuate I was a dealer. Wanted me to tell him exactly where I work; I wouldn't.


As you can see from my rap sheet, I'm a monster.:) I don't appreciate being harassed for a ****ing light bulb blowing out while I'm driving. The seat belt thing I never believed in. Especially, the new law in which the fine is doubled and the criteria is completely different. All this makes my insurance go up, for nothing. My insurance would be lower if I lived in New Hampshire, and they don't have seat belt laws. I am cautious because cops are NOT your friends. From what I have seen, per capita, you are more likely to be in the presence of a criminal when they are a cop, than when they are not. They are always on the news for ****, dog fighting, shooting people off duty, demanding cash for traffic tickets (bribes), and suicide. In this day, I wouldn't be so trusting.

Cindysphinx
06-29-2010, 05:30 PM
Im gonna guess your kid hasnt driven a go kart or played many video games involving driving

No, she's a girl, and a lot of girls don't do video games. She always found them boring. No go karts either. Bumper cars at the fair, but I wouldn't say that mimics a real car. Or, at least, I hope it doesn't. :)

Cindysphinx
06-29-2010, 05:34 PM
As for the idea of starting early, yes I agree.

I have a friend who has a son who is a peer of my daughter. She has doubts about her son's maturity level, so she was holding off on getting him his permit.

I told her I disagreed with that approach -- I have concerns about my own daughter's overconfidence and impulsiveness. I think when you have a kid like that then it is even more important to get them started right away. You've only got 2.5 years before they are adults and probably living elsewhere. If you don't teach them now, when will you teach them? And if they don't get taught, how will they learn?

spaceman_spiff
06-30-2010, 02:10 AM
I also agree with spaceman_spiff's "starting early" post. Also, I think one of the greatest tools when learning to drive is a gigantic empty parking lot. (Especially when learning to shift gears.) I remember learning to drive and parallel park in the Winthrop University (then college) coliseum parking lot, and driving around the one-mile loop behind it many, many times.


Yeah, empty parking lots are the best stress-free space for learning a stick.

But, the summer I really got a handle on driving a stick was when I had to drive a couple of days a week down a 2-lane road at the edge of town. The area hadn't really developed yet, so it was just a straight road with a stop sign every mile (every intersection with the next main road).

Every trip involved about 10 stop signs each way, but there was never anyone behind me to stress me out if I stalled the engine, which I did quite a few times. After a summer of that, sticks were easy.

LuckyR
06-30-2010, 02:38 PM
Although idiot drivers get pulled over by cops a lot, they have a lot more to worry about in killing or injuring themselves, their friends and the poor innocent person who happens to be near them when they go off, than traffic tickets/fines from cops.

heycal
06-30-2010, 10:08 PM
Here is my tips to your daughter:

COPS ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND! If they pull you over, you are probably getting a ticket. You stand a better chance in court than with the officer.

-If a cop is approaching while you are at a red light, put your seat belt on. Get tinted windows so they can't see in.

-If you think a cop has it in for you, pull in to the nearest shopping center before they get behind you, and get out of the car, and go in the store. These guys will follow you back to your house looking for anything to pull you over. Going 1 mph over the limit, break light out, no seat belt, etc., is all game for them. Expect this behavior at the end of the month when they need to make the quota.

-If the cops pull you over, don't say anything. They may be trying to record what you say to get further charges on you. For instance, like getting you to falsely admit you are sleep deprived by admitting how many hours you have been awake. Give them what they need, but don't tell them what they want to hear. If it is about a quota, they are only trying to get you to talk so they can make the quota all in one stop.

1. Don't tell them where you are coming from.

2. Don't tell them where you work.

3. Don't say anything that admits GUILT.

4. Don't say who your friends are.

5. Where you live is on your license. If they ask you where you live, they may be trying to say your license is not up to date and fine you if the city doesn't match.

You were going 50 in a 45.
Daughter answers: Really? Hmmm. Oh.

I see you weren't wearing your seatbelt.
Answers: Hmmm. Oh. Huh? Here is my licence, registration, and insurance.

^^^
What a bunch of nonsense. Following this advice sounds like a good way to insure the cop gives you a ticket after pulling you over.

While it's true there's a slight risk of making admissions that can damage you in a court hearing, on the whole, your chances of not qetting a ticket in the first place are much greater if you act nice and respectful and answer any and all questions asked.

I've gotten plenty of tickets in my 30 years of driving. I've also been let off plenty of times because I act as nice as possible when pulled over. ("Yes officer" etc....). I suspect Cindy's daughter -- or any female -- will have an even better track record than I have if she acts nice, bats hers eyes, and doesn't follow any of your advice.

Kobble
06-30-2010, 11:08 PM
^^^
What a bunch of nonsense. Following this advice sounds like a good way to insure the cop gives you a ticket after pulling you over.

While it's true there's a slight risk of making admissions that can damage you in a court hearing, on the whole, your chances of not qetting a ticket in the first place are much greater if you act nice and respectful and answer any and all questions asked.

I've gotten plenty of tickets in my 30 years of driving. I've also been let off plenty of times because I act as nice as possible when pulled over. ("Yes officer" etc....). I suspect Cindy's daughter -- or any female -- will have an even better track record than I have if she acts nice, bats hers eyes, and doesn't follow any of your advice.Your chances of getting a ticket to begin with are like 90+%. The only stops I escaped without a ticket were because it was totally crap to begin with. Cops just want to mess with you. I used to dance, and never got rewarded. **** it, follow my tips, and avoid bigger fines, and maybe even a fine to begin with.

1. Don't speed.

2. Check your break lights once a week.

3. Get tinted windows, or always buckle up.

You can avoid almost all stops by following that, but most people already know that, I wanted to give people some things they may not know.

heycal
07-01-2010, 06:35 AM
Your chances of getting a ticket to begin with are like 90+%. The only stops I escaped without a ticket were because it was totally crap to begin with. Cops just want to mess with you. I used to dance, and never got rewarded. **** it, follow my tips, and avoid bigger fines, and maybe even a fine to begin with.

1. Don't speed.

2. Check your break lights once a week.

3. Get tinted windows, or always buckle up.

You can avoid almost all stops by following that, but most people already know that, I wanted to give people some things they may not know.

I thought we were arguing about what to IF stopped, not how to avoid getting stopped in the first place.

With your parnoid and truculant attitude and dubious strategy, it's no wonder you have little luck avoiding tickets when stopped. I've been let off plenty of times, times when I was legitimately in the wrong. If I followed your advice, I'd certainly have been given many more tickets.

I'm guessing most readers of this thread know whether to listen to me or you on this one...

ProgressoR
07-01-2010, 06:43 AM
in the above advice what kind of store would you recommend to go in to?

cghipp
07-01-2010, 08:22 AM
Kobble, if your interactions with law enforcement are anywhere near as hostile as you are coming off here, it's no wonder you're getting ticketed. You don't sound like you're giving the cops a reason to cut you any kind of break.

Basically, I suggest that if you want to avoid getting a ticket, you need to work on not deserving one.

You seem to have no idea what kind of stresses police officers are under. Of course there are "bad" cops, just like there are "bad" people everywhere. And maybe some sketchy/borderline types are attracted to a job where you can carry a gun. That doesn't diminish the work of 99+% of law enforcement officers, who work their tails off for average (at best) pay, live with bizarre work schedules, have to deal with legions of ****-ants and their crappy attitudes, and never know whether there's an idiot with a gun behind someone's front door or tinted windows. There are a lot more headlines like "Highway patrolman gunned down in 'routine' stop," and "Two officers killed at scene of domestic dispute" than there are about bad cops.

The last time I was pulled for speeding, it was a gorgeous Saturday morning about two years ago. I was on a deserted rural divided highway, listening to a radio profile of the great Sonny Rollins, enjoying a nice drive. Until I came across a patrolman going the other way. I glanced at the speedometer, realized with a shock that I was going about 15 over, and knew I was getting pulled. It was so blatant, and there was no one else anywhere around - he HAD to pull me. The HP had to go "around the bend" a bit to turn around and get back to me. I could have easily turned off the highway and gotten out of sight, like a criminal. But instead I slowed down and moved over, ready to pull over. Sure enough, after a minute or two he was behind me and we pulled over. The conversation went something like this:

HP: Good morning, ma'am. Are you in a hurry to get somewhere?

Me: (Handing over my license/registration) No sir, I wasn't, but when I saw you I realized I was going too fast, and I figured I might as well slow down, because I knew you were coming.

HP: I appreciate you waiting for me. When was the last time you got a ticket?

Me: I think it was about 20 years ago.

HP: That can't be right - you're too young to have been driving for 20 years.

Me: I was 17, I was driving my brothers to school, we were running late, and I got a ticket for 47 in a 35. I remember because it was Friday the 13th and it actually was a really bad day. I think I got a ticket in college for not having my license on me at a highway checkpoint, but I think that was my only speeding ticket.

HP: That's funny, I was 17 the last time I got a speeding ticket, too. (He was about 50-55.)

The HP took my info back to his car, did his thing, and came back with a warning, saying I needed to slow it down and be more careful. Which I did. If I hadn't been honest and respectful, and admitted what we both clearly knew I had done, I would have left that encounter with a fat ticket. And I would have deserved it, because I WAS speeding.

Let me add here that I am not about to bat my eyes, flip my hair, or tear up to get out of anything. I'll be damned if I'll teach my daughter to act in such an embarrassing manner, either. People who pull that crap deserve to be slapped, and slapped with a ticket too.

I'm actually kind of glad I did get pulled, because I have been more careful since then, and more mindful that going 5 MPH faster on the Interstate on the way to work isn't going to save me but a minute or maybe two, at the very most. It could cost me a hell of a lot, though.

As a side note, I was on my way to a tennis match that morning. The adrenaline rush from realizing I was "caught" was still pretty strong when I got there, and I bulldozed over that poor woman in record time! The only other time I have felt like that was about ten years ago, when I overslept and my captain called and woke me up, asking where I was. I have never gotten dressed so fast, and I had a huge adrenaline buzz in that match. Played out of my mind with no warm-up. I guess getting in trouble is really good for my game!

Cindysphinx
07-01-2010, 08:29 AM
Goodness. You folks sound like you spend a lot of time being pulled over by the cops!

I've been ticketed three times in 33 years of driving. No major or minor accidents in forever, knock wood. Only at-fault accident was at age 16, a fender bender in a parking lot.

I think that's pretty good.

Cindysphinx
07-01-2010, 08:38 AM
I talked my way out of a parking ticket recently. It's weird what works in those situations.

It was a 2-hour meter, and I guess I got back about a minute or two late. The guy was walking up to my car. I was across the street waiting for the light to change. I could have beat him there had I crossed against the light at a dead run, but I decided avoiding a ticket wasn't worth my life.

I walked up and said something like, "I'm here, I'm here. I was just waiting for the light."

He said, "It's too late. I'm writing you a ticket."

I said, "Really? Ah man, seriously? Well, OK. You gotta do what you gotta do. While you're doing that, though, I'll tell you a funny story. I was circling and circling looking for a space and I was going to be late. Then I saw this open space. I waited for someone to pull out, and then I pulled forward so I could back in. And then this guy pulled a George Costanza on me! He pulled in forward. So I nicely asked him to move because I was there first, and guess what? He actually moved and let me have this space! So I guess I was lucky then and I'm unlucky now. It all works out in the end. Do you need me to sign that?"

The guy pulled a piece of paper out of his machine, crumpled it, put it in his pocket and said, "Go on."

Amazing.

ubermeyer
07-01-2010, 09:17 AM
What state do you live in? Don't most states require a driving instructor to teach your kid for a few hours before you can? (Or are you a licensed instructor... in which case... sorry).

After my lessons with the instructor, driving is quite easy for me. My parents didn't really have to coach me much and I got my license pretty easily.

Cindysphinx
07-01-2010, 10:25 AM
What state do you live in? Don't most states require a driving instructor to teach your kid for a few hours before you can? (Or are you a licensed instructor... in which case... sorry).

After my lessons with the instructor, driving is quite easy for me. My parents didn't really have to coach me much and I got my license pretty easily.

In our state, the kid does classroom instruction and then gets six hours of in-car instruction by a pro. Cost is $600, I believe. The conventional wisdom is that you want to use your six hours wisely -- don't waste the pro driving around a parking lot at 4 mph.

With my first daughter, I taught her all of the stuff that was easy for me to teach. Residential streets. Basic parking. Parking garages. Airports. Bad weather.

She used one lesson on merging on the Beltway and congested freeway issues. She came back merging like a champ.

Then we used the next lesson on congested business district driving -- navigating the dreaded Rockville Pike, which is three lanes each direction and lined with stores and malls for miles, nothing but cranky, aggressive drivers the whole darn way. : shudder :

I can't recall what the other ones were; there may have been on on one-way streets and traffic circles. I know the last one was a session on "How To Pass The Road Test," where they worked all of those specific skills (parallel parking, driving in reverse, three-point turns).

There are some parents who hire the driving pros for all of their kids' instruction, but that's because those parents have way more money than time. That is not our situation.

sureshs
07-01-2010, 10:27 AM
There are some parents who hire the driving pros for all of their kids' instruction, but that's because those parents have way more money than time. That is not our situation.

They are the ones who play in posh country clubs and look down on you.

Nah seriously, you have a ton of money to be spending this much time on tennis and posting here.

Cindysphinx
07-01-2010, 11:18 AM
They are the ones who play in posh country clubs and look down on you.

Nah seriously, you have a ton of money to be spending this much time on tennis and posting here.

What a weird thing to say to a stranger on an internet discussion board.

FlamEnemY
07-01-2010, 11:40 AM
In our state, the kid does classroom instruction and then gets six hours of in-car instruction by a pro. Cost is $600, I believe. The conventional wisdom is that you want to use your six hours wisely -- don't waste the pro driving around a parking lot at 4 mph.


Only six? I know I'm not even remotely close to the States, but this sounds kind of strange to me. I drove a total of 30 hours with my instructor, he basically taught me almost everything.

heycal
07-01-2010, 11:45 AM
Let me add here that I am not about to bat my eyes, flip my hair, or tear up to get out of anything. I'll be damned if I'll teach my daughter to act in such an embarrassing manner, either. People who pull that crap deserve to be slapped, and slapped with a ticket too.

Perhaps you claim that, but you do realize your gender definitely worked in your favor in the account you presented, don't you? A male cop would never say something complimentary/flirtatious like "You're too young to have been driving 20 years" to a guy, so already you were ahead in the count due to your feminine charms.



Nah seriously, you have a ton of money to be spending this much time on tennis and posting here.

What a weird thing to say to a stranger on an internet discussion board.

Is it? Seems a reasonable assumption he's making. People make such assumptions about others here all the time.

sureshs
07-01-2010, 12:01 PM
What a weird thing to say to a stranger on an internet discussion board.

You are not a stranger to me at all.

You are like my (elder) sister.

cghipp
07-01-2010, 01:34 PM
Perhaps you claim that, but you do realize your gender definitely worked in your favor in the account you presented, don't you? A male cop would never say something complimentary/flirtatious like "You're too young to have been driving 20 years" to a guy, so already you were ahead in the count due to your feminine charms.His meaning/delivery was a lot more like, "That sounds like a lie, because I don't think you've been driving that long. Please explain yourself." Something he would certainly have said to a guy in the same situation.

ProgressoR
07-01-2010, 02:15 PM
Goodness. You folks sound like you spend a lot of time being pulled over by the cops!

I've been ticketed three times in 33 years of driving. No major or minor accidents in forever, knock wood. Only at-fault accident was at age 16, a fender bender in a parking lot.

I think that's pretty good.

Cindy, this is like DF's, if you dont make any DF's you are not trying hard enough and playing it too safe. You must try harder and during the road to improvement pick up some tickets and dents, that is the only way to improve.

ProgressoR
07-01-2010, 02:18 PM
Cindy, I do hope you realise that your attractive looks and tennis honed bod were decisive factors in this, and he didnt hear a word you said.


I talked my way out of a parking ticket recently. It's weird what works in those situations.

It was a 2-hour meter, and I guess I got back about a minute or two late. The guy was walking up to my car. I was across the street waiting for the light to change. I could have beat him there had I crossed against the light at a dead run, but I decided avoiding a ticket wasn't worth my life.

I walked up and said something like, "I'm here, I'm here. I was just waiting for the light."

He said, "It's too late. I'm writing you a ticket."

I said, "Really? Ah man, seriously? Well, OK. You gotta do what you gotta do. While you're doing that, though, I'll tell you a funny story. I was circling and circling looking for a space and I was going to be late. Then I saw this open space. I waited for someone to pull out, and then I pulled forward so I could back in. And then this guy pulled a George Costanza on me! He pulled in forward. So I nicely asked him to move because I was there first, and guess what? He actually moved and let me have this space! So I guess I was lucky then and I'm unlucky now. It all works out in the end. Do you need me to sign that?"

The guy pulled a piece of paper out of his machine, crumpled it, put it in his pocket and said, "Go on."

Amazing.

Cindysphinx
07-01-2010, 02:21 PM
Only six? I know I'm not even remotely close to the States, but this sounds kind of strange to me. I drove a total of 30 hours with my instructor, he basically taught me almost everything.

Yes, only six hours in-car. And the kid has to keep a log showing 60 hours of instruction with a parent or adult over age 21.

Personally, I think 60 hours is woefully insufficient to learn to drive in our area. My first kid got 60 hours very quickly, but it was months before we took her for her test. She had so many hours that we stopped keeping track. We have all kinds of difficult conditions in DC that didn't exist where I learned to drive (Arizona). There are countless ways to get in trouble.

My personal favorite horrifying road condition is that some of our major streets change direction based on time of day and day of the week. So Connecticut Avenue in the District is four lanes southbound in the morning, three lanes southbound mid-day, and two lanes southbound in the afternoon. Good luck figuring out which lane you should use for a left turn at 3:58 pm.

Still, my kids have told me that many parents just teach their own kids and then sign the log, even though what is in the log is not true. And based on the way some of these kids drive, I am not surprised.

Cindysphinx
07-01-2010, 02:23 PM
Cindy, I do hope you realise that your attractive looks and tennis honed bod were decisive factors in this, and he didnt hear a word you said.

That's sweet of you to say, really it is. But I am almost 50.

Perhaps I reminded him of his mother . . . .

heycal
07-01-2010, 02:57 PM
His meaning/delivery was a lot more like, "That sounds like a lie, because I don't think you've been driving that long. Please explain yourself." Something he would certainly have said to a guy in the same situation.

You're suggesting that there was nothing flirtatious in his query, that his only motivation in saying that was a genuine skepticism about your claim of driving for 20 years, because you couldn't possibly be 40 or whatever years old?

Who buys this one, guys?

Cindysphinx
07-01-2010, 03:02 PM
I dunno. I mean, the cop knows your birthdate. A bit of math and the cop can guess how long you've been driving.

I'll bet cghipp still gets carded! :)

cghipp
07-01-2010, 03:19 PM
I dunno. I mean, the cop knows your birthdate. A bit of math and the cop can guess how long you've been driving.

I'll bet cghipp still gets carded! :)He hadn't looked at my license or registration at that point. I think that was right before I handed it to him. I think what really saved me was that we had both last gotten ticketed at 17. It was something in common.

It's been a while since I've been carded! Don't I wish. It would make my whole week, unless the cashier's manager was watching and they had some kind of "under 50" carding rule... I do look a little bit younger than my age, but it's been many years since I could pass for 21, and 31 isn't very likely either.

On the day I got pulled, I was wearing my tennis clothes and sunglasses (and a hat - OMG :shock:) and so I probably did come off as a little younger than I am. But at the time, I really was only barely old enough to have been driving for that long. It was pretty much exactly 20 years, which is a suspiciously round number. He had to have been thinking, "Come on, EXACTLY 20 years? Have you even been driving that long?" He was a nice enough guy, but he wasn't interested in giving me the benefit of the doubt on that.

cghipp
07-01-2010, 03:21 PM
Oh, and congrats to your daughter on conquering Rockville Pike. That is a nasty piece of pavement!

Topaz
07-01-2010, 03:32 PM
Then we used the next lesson on congested business district driving -- navigating the dreaded Rockville Pike, which is three lanes each direction and lined with stores and malls for miles, nothing but cranky, aggressive drivers the whole darn way. : shudder :

.

Haha, Cindy, next time I see you, remind me to tell you why certain other members of this board would no longer ride in a car with me...it has to do with Rockville Pike!

zapvor
07-01-2010, 03:44 PM
rockville pike is pretty insane

ubermeyer
07-01-2010, 08:03 PM
In our state, the kid does classroom instruction and then gets six hours of in-car instruction by a pro. Cost is $600, I believe. The conventional wisdom is that you want to use your six hours wisely -- don't waste the pro driving around a parking lot at 4 mph.

............

There are some parents who hire the driving pros for all of their kids' instruction, but that's because those parents have way more money than time. That is not our situation.

Hmm, same thing in my state, only I "only" had to pay 500.
On the first lesson, I drove around my neighborhood for 45 minutes, then on big roads for 15 minutes, then freeway for 30 minutes (the instructor let me go at over 80 mph, he was great). The next lesson was more practice, and the final one was specifically directed at passing the test. I found these lessons more than adequate and I'm pretty sure I could give my mom a run for her money in driving. I know I drive better than my dad, he is a maniac driver.

ProgressoR
07-02-2010, 03:16 AM
Cindy you are still a yummy mummy, no more excuses. If you are in great shape then age is no matter.

Apologies for off topic post everyone, but a gentleman should always make time to compliment a lady.

cghipp
07-02-2010, 05:54 AM
"Yummy mummy" is so much better than "MILF"!

Hot Sauce
07-02-2010, 02:55 PM
Have patience, they will get the hang of it soon enough. I am young enough to remember being taught to drive by my parents. I started out learning from my parents, but I improved the most as a young driver from driving lessons.

heycal
07-02-2010, 05:07 PM
Have patience, they will get the hang of it soon enough. I am young enough to remember being taught to drive by my parents. I started out learning from my parents, but I improved the most as a young driver from driving lessons.

Did anyone ever tell you not to drive around with too many people in your car?

Mahboob Khan
07-04-2010, 12:15 AM
When I was young I used to have a bicycle.

Then I drove a tractor in the field (ploughing).

Then in 1981 I bought a motor cycle.

In 1992 I bought a small suzuki car with manual gears. Based on my cycle, motorcycle, and tractor experience, I drove the car to my office. I am sure you won't believe it.

Yes, I am trying to teach my 18+ daughter and it is quite tough. Her progress is slow as she can only drive our Manual Transmission car in the first gear in a huge open space. She hates me for her own lack of progress!

ProgressoR
07-04-2010, 03:12 AM
^^^^ get her to drive a tractor first, it worked for you

heycal
07-05-2010, 01:05 AM
"Yummy mummy" is so much better than "MILF"!

I think you're mistaken on this one as well.

cghipp
07-05-2010, 06:30 AM
I think you're mistaken on this one as well.MILF is a trashy expression. At least "yummy mummy" is humorous.

heycal
07-05-2010, 08:03 AM
MILF is a trashy expression. At least "yummy mummy" is humorous.

"Trashy"? You're talking to a red-blooded American male here. When it comes to matters like this, most of us prefer trashy to almost humorous G-rated terms. Even most girls I know would go with MILF over yummy mummy, including the MILF's themselves. God bless America!

Cindysphinx
07-05-2010, 08:46 AM
When I was young I used to have a bicycle.

Then I drove a tractor in the field (ploughing).

Then in 1981 I bought a motor cycle.

In 1992 I bought a small suzuki car with manual gears. Based on my cycle, motorcycle, and tractor experience, I drove the car to my office. I am sure you won't believe it.

Yes, I am trying to teach my 18+ daughter and it is quite tough. Her progress is slow as she can only drive our Manual Transmission car in the first gear in a huge open space. She hates me for her own lack of progress!

I learned to drive in Arizona in the suburbs. Every street was three lanes in each direction, straight, spaced one mile apart. It was a long time before there was any sort of freeway near us.

Contrast this with my poor daughter's experience. I took her on the Beltway for the first time a few days ago. I planned it all out.

Three magnetic placards for the car that scream "STUDENT DRIVER."

A route that required her to enter the beltway, stay in the right lane, and exit. Nothing fancy.

Ten o'clock on a weeknight, so no congestion.

Total distance: about 3 miles.

Even that was rough. When it was time to exit, it was a zipper merge, meaning some cars are entering the freeway at the same time that others are leaving. She handled this fine, letting a merging car go ahead of her and accelerate while she decelerated behind it. Still, the jerk behind her honked, apparently figuring she wasn't being aggressive enough.

Why someone would honk at a driver with student driver placards all over the car is beyond me. Most people give her a lot of space and just go around.

spaceman_spiff
07-05-2010, 09:03 AM
I learned to drive in Arizona in the suburbs. Every street was three lanes in each direction, straight, spaced one mile apart. It was a long time before there was any sort of freeway near us.

Contrast this with my poor daughter's experience. I took her on the Beltway for the first time a few days ago. I planned it all out.

Three magnetic placards for the car that scream "STUDENT DRIVER."

A route that required her to enter the beltway, stay in the right lane, and exit. Nothing fancy.

Ten o'clock on a weeknight, so no congestion.

Total distance: about 3 miles.

Even that was rough. When it was time to exit, it was a zipper merge, meaning some cars are entering the freeway at the same time that others are leaving. She handled this fine, letting a merging car go ahead of her and accelerate while she decelerated behind it. Still, the jerk behind her honked, apparently figuring she wasn't being aggressive enough.

Why someone would honk at a driver with student driver placards all over the car is beyond me. Most people give her a lot of space and just go around.

But, did you teach your daughter the correct technique for flipping the bird? I believe that is the correct response for being honked at on the Beltway.

Just tell her that, on a normal day, it's far less stressful because the cars don't actually move.