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View Full Version : Older Players: How much Advil are you taking?


Cindysphinx
07-08-2010, 06:56 PM
I've been paying some attention to how much Advil I'm taking, and I want to compare notes with some of my fellow geezers. I'm 49, BTW.

Anyway, I find that I need to take two Advil with breakfast. This will last 36 hours or so. Then most of my tennis-related joints start to ache the following evening. I will hold out until the next morning, and then have two more Advil. Sometimes I'm able to go 5 days or so without any Advil, but I have no idea what leads to these Advil-free stretches.

If I am really feeling something from tennis, I'll take two before I play and ice knees, wrist and elbow afterward. And if I'm actually hurt, then I will take 2-3 before playing and may need to repeat that day.

How about the rest of you older players?

ollinger
07-08-2010, 07:06 PM
36 hours?? The half-life of Advil is about two hours. The effective period is about two half-lives (four hours) and a drug is essentially entirely excreted in five half-lives (ten hours in this case.) One hopes you've never had blood pressure issues, in which case you shouldn't use Advil at all.

r2473
07-08-2010, 07:07 PM
Also, please tell us at what age your Advil habit / addiction began.

Also (if you would) share at what age any other rituals you follow started (icing, heat, wraps, tennis elbow gizmos, massage treatments, etc).

I'm 37 and my number for all of the above is zero, but I am wondering when I might be forced to start.

Falloutjr
07-08-2010, 07:08 PM
I'm 18 and I take 2-3 Aleve every morning o.O

bad_call
07-08-2010, 07:14 PM
no advil for this old timer. drink IPA beer regularly and aspirin at times. thinking i need to move to CA or one of those states where i could get some better pain relief at times.

Fedace
07-08-2010, 07:23 PM
I've been paying some attention to how much Advil I'm taking, and I want to compare notes with some of my fellow geezers. I'm 49, BTW.

Anyway, I find that I need to take two Advil with breakfast. This will last 36 hours or so. Then most of my tennis-related joints start to ache the following evening. I will hold out until the next morning, and then have two more Advil. Sometimes I'm able to go 5 days or so without any Advil, but I have no idea what leads to these Advil-free stretches.

If I am really feeling something from tennis, I'll take two before I play and ice knees, wrist and elbow afterward. And if I'm actually hurt, then I will take 2-3 before playing and may need to repeat that day.

How about the rest of you older players?

I take 800mg of Advil 30 minutes before the match, and i play about 3 times per week.

Cindysphinx
07-08-2010, 07:24 PM
36 hours?? The half-life of Advil is about two hours. The effective period is about two half-lives (four hours) and a drug is essentially entirely excreted in five half-lives (ten hours in this case.) One hopes you've never had blood pressure issues, in which case you shouldn't use Advil at all.

Yeah, I know. 36 hours. I kid you not.

Let's see. I had a lesson on Tuesday afternoon. Didn't take Advil before or after.

Had a clinic on Wednesday, and that's when I took the 2 Advil. Iced one knee afterward.

This evening (Thursday) at around dinner, I started feeling my knees/shoulder/elbow/wrist. Go figure.

No, no blood pressure issues. It runs in the family, but mine is good.

Cindysphinx
07-08-2010, 07:27 PM
Also, please tell us at what age your Advil habit / addiction began.

Also (if you would) share at what age any other rituals you follow started (icing, heat, wraps, tennis elbow gizmos, massage treatments, etc).

I'm 37 and my number for all of the above is zero, but I am wondering when I might be forced to start.

I didn't get heavy into Advil until 2005, when I tore my meniscus. It was a bumpy recovery, with lots of Advil before and after matches.

I've never used any significant braces or wraps or gizmos or massage therapies or accupuncture or herbal remedies. When I have a problem, I ice a lot and rest it. If it gets chronic, I ask my pro if I'm doing anything wrong (we are troubleshooting my wrist right now, actually).

I'm also riding my foam roller a lot lately. I think part of my knee issue is poor tracking, so I use the foam roller. Don't know if it is helping. I have good days and bad days and I have yet to connect the dots and figure out why . . . .

jswinf
07-08-2010, 08:48 PM
I'm 18 and I take 2-3 Aleve every morning o.O

Why? This doesn't sound like a good thing to be doing. Seen a doctor?

scotus
07-08-2010, 09:26 PM
I take 800mg of Advil 30 minutes before the match, and i play about 3 times per week.

If you were so worried about Voltaren Gel's side effects, how can you stomach that much Advil?

tennisdad65
07-08-2010, 10:36 PM
I am 44. No advil or other pain killers for me. ICE ICE ICE..
I also regularly deep massage my joints and major muscles by myself.
I often play 3 sets of singles, and sometimes upto 5 sets a day.

Ken Honecker
07-09-2010, 01:33 AM
I've been playing with a meniscus which I probably tore slightly about a year ago and then reinjured this spring. I talked to the docs and they did the whole "you're a big strong guy" (which I certainly am) "If it really starts bothering you we could scope it."

I've trying to hold off until Fall when softball and tennis is over but right now it is swollen fore and aft all the time and after tennis I might find myself downing 4 Advil and 3 Asprin in a 8 hour period.

Part of my problem is I have a really high threshold for pain so I'm playing on something I probably shouldn't and when the docs see me walking about and joking they don't think it's a big deal.

Oh I'm 53 now.

chollyred
07-09-2010, 05:29 AM
When I first started playing again about a year ago, I was using 600mg twice a day for 2-3 days after playing. Now the knees rarely hurt. Unfortunately, Monday I suffered a mild wrist sprain (slapping at a shot). I've taken 600mg a couple of times this week. I have a team practice tonight (new team), so I'll probably take another dose before doing some light hitting tonight. I try to avoid long term use.

albino smurf
07-09-2010, 12:06 PM
I pop an advil or two every three days or so as needed. Rarely need more than twice in a week. I stretch religiously after playing and do a big cool down walk for about two miles after each tennis session.

MAX PLY
07-09-2010, 12:33 PM
None for me these days.* Frankly, I really work hard to stay in pretty good shape (and keeping weight off to spare my joints)--for me that's stationary biking, weights, core exercises and stretching off the court plus tennis. I am a big fan of hot tub therapy and massages. I routinely ice my arm after long drill/playing sessions and during tournaments but not after every time I play. My racquets (BLX 95 6.1) are typically strung with gut or a quality synthetic (e.g., NXT) at a fairly low tension (53 lbs).

*I used to be a big Advil user due to a hip problem developed after almost 40 years of tennis (started at 10, played in competion ever since--college in the late 70s-early 80s and tournaments ever since). Actually had a hip replacement about 20 months ago and now am back to full speed. The Advil was motivated almost solely by hip pain. I will tell you that my doctor thinks an Advil habit is a really bad thing.

bad_call
07-09-2010, 12:54 PM
after reading about ibuprofen's side effects, think a prescription pain med would be better for this old timer.

West Coast Ace
07-09-2010, 01:08 PM
I only need pain relief for my shoulder when it occasionally acts up. I've switched to softer strings and lower tensions. The shoulder only becomes a problem when it's damp out and when I hit serves off bad tosses and keep going.

Right knee doesn't like stairs - but it's fine on the court - knock on wood.

ollinger
07-09-2010, 01:09 PM
The worst news about Advil is that it causes blood pressure spikes people aren't even aware of, sometimes during sleep. BP is elevated during REM sleep and some data published last year showed that BP spikes during sleep are closely correlated with risk of stroke. Nephrologists consider Advil (and the similar Aleve) to be horrible and hazardous drugs. To use them for athletic performance, when BP goes up in any event, is insane. For athletic pain, Tylenol makes much more sense. Normal doses don't impact the liver, there's no BP problems, and it doesn't interfere with the inflammation that actually heals the damage you did playing the sport.

SystemicAnomaly
07-09-2010, 01:31 PM
after reading about ibuprofen's side effects, think a prescription pain med would be better for this old timer.

You're kidding, right? I would imagine that most prescription pain meds could very well have side effects that are much worse than IB.

bad_call
07-09-2010, 01:54 PM
You're kidding, right? I would imagine that most prescription pain meds could very well have side effects that are much worse than IB.

not kidding. do the research...

ollinger
07-09-2010, 02:08 PM
bad call is likely correct. Even an opiate like oxycodone or hydromorphone, assuming you're not sedated by it, would be safer for athletic performance than ibuprofen because it doesn't impact BP significantly. But I think I'd consider a different sport if I needed analgesics to play.

mike53
07-09-2010, 02:22 PM
For athletic pain, Tylenol makes much more sense. Normal doses don't impact the liver, there's no BP problems, and it doesn't interfere with the inflammation that actually heals the damage you did playing the sport.

I switched completely away from Advil to avoid the anti-inflammatory effects mentioned above. Overall I prefer to treat pain with ice, heat and therapeutic exercise.

neverstopplaying
07-09-2010, 05:12 PM
Enlightening thread for me. At 50, I do take Advil occasionally as a tennis-related anti-inflammatory or for pain relief, but not as much as some of my hitting partners.

I do get regular massages, which are great (1-2 times per 2 weeks).

I'm careful with racquets and string combinations (as a confessed racquetaholic), so I change setups if i get recurring pain.

I use ice and take baths if necessary.

Lastly, I now play only on clay in the summer and avoid outdoor hard courts.

bad_call
07-09-2010, 05:14 PM
This is why medical marijuana needs to be everywhere, you guys are destroying your kidneys with acetaminophen or getting addicted to the opiates in prescription pain killers.

there are opiate based mild pain killers that are OTC in other countries outside the US...but if someone is wants to abuse be it food, alcohol, tobacco, drugs, etc then it will happen. just ask Rush about his oxy adventures...hopefully it's in the past tense now.

ClayCourt1
07-09-2010, 05:39 PM
Enlightening thread for me. At 50, I do take Advil occasionally as a tennis-related anti-inflammatory or for pain relief, but not as much as some of my hitting partners.

I do get regular massages, which are great (1-2 times per 2 weeks).

I'm careful with racquets and string combinations (as a confessed racquetaholic), so I change setups if i get recurring pain.

I use ice and take baths if necessary.

Lastly, I now play only on clay in the summer and avoid outdoor hard courts.

Great advice! I am 46 and getting there myself!

slice bh compliment
07-09-2010, 05:41 PM
I'm over 40, I've got smooth footwork, I'm not in great shape at all anymore, but I walk, swim, hike, cycle and play a lot of tennis. I used to play at a high level. Now I'm a 5.0.

Two to four pills per year. Not for anything sports related. Unless tequila or Jagermeister is a sport (I say yes to a couple of shots maybe twice a year).

Jim Hendricks
07-09-2010, 06:47 PM
I'm 58, have had two knee surgeries and take two Advil before playing.

Cindysphinx
07-09-2010, 07:57 PM
I don't get it. Don't you 45+ people ache just because you're 45+?

I guess I am a freak of nature. My joints ache when I *don't* exercise. They never hurt during a match.

Like, I'm about to stand up from this computer and I will have to unfold myself like an umbrella. No amount of stretching seems to make any difference, sadly.

My various docs and physical therapists over the years have told me that my joints are very tight. I have had docs examine my knees and go get a trainee so they can observe how tight they are. I guess a kneecap is supposed to have some play in it so you can wriggle it. Good luck wriggling mine.

mlktennis
07-09-2010, 08:16 PM
I ache ever since I passed 35. I'm 38 now and different things ache all the time. Last year I was popping 2-4 advil a day due to a back/rib pain that nagged me during and after playing. I make a concerted effort to not take too many motrin anymore and just take time off from tennis to recover a bit. Cold showers after playing and icing down affected joints have been key for me. I still pop a couple for my migranes tho.

mlktennis
07-09-2010, 08:17 PM
Also, Too much advil gives me gastritis.

Steve1954
07-09-2010, 09:01 PM
Interesting thread. Since I developed some soreness in my wrist recently, I've been taking 400 mg of ibuprofen after my regular doubles matches on Sundays. In addition, I wrap my wrist before play, ice down my wrist for 20 minutes afterwards and then put on a wrist sleeve to keep the wrist warm and stable. I don't take any ibuprofen on Thursdays, which is when I hit with my practice partner. I do wrap the wrist, though, and ice it afterwards, after such light hitting. And no, I don't ache just because I am 56. The only other time I took ibuprofen for tennis was when I had a bout of tennis elbow a couple of years ago. After reading this thread, though, I'm going to ask my nephew about ibuprofen use (he's a doctor).

SystemicAnomaly
07-09-2010, 11:30 PM
not kidding. do the research...

Don't know which prescription painkillers you are referring to. I've been staying away from pretty much all prescription drugs since the early '90s. Other than Celebrex, which ones are commonly prescribed these days?

The ones that I have researched, the selective COX-2 inhibitors appear to have some pretty serious side effects. These are relatively newer generation NSAIDs that selectively inhibit COX-2 without inhibiting COX-1. COX-1 has a protective effect on the stomach/GI tract. The older NSAIDs (IB, naproxen, aspirin) inhibit both COX-1 and COX-2 which is why they are particularly brutal on the GI. The selective COX-2 inhibitors were thought to be the answer to this problem.

However, it appears that, while easier on the stomach/GI, they still promote an increased risk of renal failure. There is also compelling evidence that indicates an increase in risk for heart attack, thrombosis, and stroke. No thanks. Most of these have been pulled off the market (by the FDA or the manufacturer) because of these risks. To my knowledge, the only one of these that remain readily available is Celebrex (Celecoxib). Even this one had an FDA alert imposed on it a few years back. There have been rumors that this one may eventually be pulled off the market as well.

Selective COX-2 inhibitors (Coxibs) - status (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-steroidal_anti-inflammatory_drug#Selective_COX-2_inhibitors_.28Coxibs.29)
.

jpr
07-10-2010, 04:30 AM
interesting thread...i'm not alone

38...really bad GE issue. was up to 4 advil before each match.

ran into a good player who attributes his kidney failure to excessive advil. scared me to cut it out altogether. if i cant play through the pain, then i shouldnt play.

raiden031
07-10-2010, 04:41 AM
Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't sound right to be popping in Advil on a regular basis? My philosophy on anything from tennis to running to any other physical activity is to listen to your body. If you are in that much pain, then you are asking for a serious injury. Whatever happened to good old fashioned REST? This is why I don't sympathize with the elder players who are on the court practically every day and complaining about all their injuries.

Ken Honecker
07-10-2010, 05:10 AM
I have a hard time imagining that the average player could take enough over the counter stuff to do much harm. Most of the time you here about someone developing problems it is a pro who had taken mega doses for years.

Heck way, way, back in my teens I used to take 2 asprin if I had a head ache or I didn't even feel any effect.

As for REST some things that doesn't cure. I had a shoulder that was so bad I couldn't pull the sheets across me in bed with that arm. After babying it for 10 months I went to PT, learned that I had to rough it up and started lifting weights again. The first couple of times I did arm curls I could feel the tendons whipping around in my shoulder like rubberbands but after a while everything settled down.

Also most of the injuries old folks carry around with them are ones they have earned over the years and they aren't going anywhere.

Cindysphinx
07-10-2010, 05:39 AM
Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't sound right to be popping in Advil on a regular basis? My philosophy on anything from tennis to running to any other physical activity is to listen to your body. If you are in that much pain, then you are asking for a serious injury. Whatever happened to good old fashioned REST? This is why I don't sympathize with the elder players who are on the court practically every day and complaining about all their injuries.

I didn't have problems when I was in my 20s either.

Check in with me in a couple of decades, 'kay?

hrstrat57
07-10-2010, 09:48 AM
Cindy,

As recently as a couple of years ago I would bang out 2 500mg tylenol in a 3 set match(singles)

I now accept the pain and have reduced it to a max of 1 500mg tablet, often a small bottle of gatoraide and a lot of water will get me through....

Of course it is much better on hot days, cooler days it can be a real struggle.

My thoughts are any med that works as well as tylenol and advil dot cannot be good for you.....the pain must be part of the game, pain is nature's warning signal.

Good topic.

raiden031
07-10-2010, 09:55 AM
I didn't have problems when I was in my 20s either.

Check in with me in a couple of decades, 'kay?

You weren't playing tennis in your 20s. How many days a week do you play tennis?

mlktennis
07-10-2010, 10:26 AM
Nothing on a regular basis is good except good clean living. That includes Marijuana for you pot heads out there! :)

Cindysphinx
07-10-2010, 11:34 AM
You weren't playing tennis in your 20s. How many days a week do you play tennis?

It varies. Some weeks are zero days per week. Some weeks are seven times per week. I played my last league match on July 1, and I have played twice since then. I will play again today, and I anticipate twice more next week.

No, I wasn't playing tennis in my 20s, but I don't think I understand your point there.

Perhaps you will be one of the lucky ones who has no chronic problems or overall deterioration at age 50 and feel decades younger than your age by then. I hope so. And I hope the young folks you encounter then will be understanding about it.

r2473
07-10-2010, 11:59 AM
Also most of the injuries old folks carry around with them are ones they have earned over the years and they aren't going anywhere.

Injuries come in all shapes in sizes, that is for sure. Some are "unavoidable" accidents. Others (I believe) are the result of years of neglect and not addressing a potential problem until it becomes an actual problem. To that end I am taking steps as a young man to ward off "earning" injuries as I get older. Just doing basic weight, cardio work, and eating reasonably.

But, I am just a young 37 year old talking out of my ***. Perhaps I will learn I am dead wrong in a few years. But, I do believe many people get into trouble by "allowing" problems to develop and then trying to treat the problem instead of taking steps to reduce the chances of the problem starting at all (or at least delaying the inevitable until I am too old to care).

I look at a man like Jack Lalanne. He is 95 and (last I knew) still appears to be in fine physical shape and full of life. I don't think you need to be as fanatical as Jack to reap the benefits however. But I could be wrong (I was wrong once before).

tennislefty
07-10-2010, 12:22 PM
ok i need to respond..Advil is safe. im in the medical field and my pharmacist friend states the body can handle up to 3 gms/day (that's 15 tabs/caps). it has antiinfamatory properties which aid in healing. Inflamation itself does not heal. its the body's respose to something (many factors). Tylenol is the safeset pain reducer for gi upsets. All drugs should be used with caution and you want to rethink why you need to take it. most od what Ibuprofen does is cover up your symptoms. The issue i see more is tennis/sports players not looking at the bigger picture. The fact is tennis is hard on the body. It is not a fitness program in itself. You need to workout and have a fitness program that will than allow the body to perform at tennis. proper weight training and cardio are necsessary to support the muslces around tendons, joints and ligaments. for example,: its immposible to do lateral motion without muscular support around the knee, it will eventually breakdown or cause an injury. all these responses regarding knee, hip, back, shoulder etc. are due to lack of conditioning. it has been proven that most all tennis elbows are corolated to weak shoulder muscles. back issues are due to weak core muscles. I would not reccomned anyone doing tennis until they improve their fintess. and for ollinger who has in increased BP while in REM sleep, you are timebomb waiting to explode..you need to address why you have high BP, cardiac issues? obesity? bp's are lowest in sleep states...

Fedace
07-10-2010, 12:30 PM
If you were so worried about Voltaren Gel's side effects, how can you stomach that much Advil?

Voltaren is much more potent NSAID than motrin. though 800mg is pretty high dose. it is only one time before the match so i am ok. maybe i will try voltaren gel right before the match instead ?

Fedace
07-10-2010, 12:32 PM
Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't sound right to be popping in Advil on a regular basis? My philosophy on anything from tennis to running to any other physical activity is to listen to your body. If you are in that much pain, then you are asking for a serious injury. Whatever happened to good old fashioned REST? This is why I don't sympathize with the elder players who are on the court practically every day and complaining about all their injuries.

you are right. As little as Advil 400mg three times a week before excersice can raise your blood pressure and could increase your chance of heart attack in 6 month or more. This is a FACT that has been published in new england journal of medicine................:(

West Coast Ace
07-10-2010, 01:31 PM
Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't sound right to be popping in Advil on a regular basis? My philosophy on anything from tennis to running to any other physical activity is to listen to your body. If you are in that much pain, then you are asking for a serious injury. Whatever happened to good old fashioned REST? This is why I don't sympathize with the elder players who are on the court practically every day and complaining about all their injuries.No, I'm with you.

jswinf
07-10-2010, 01:48 PM
ok i need to respond..Advil is safe. im in the medical field and my pharmacist friend states the body can handle up to 3 gms/day (that's 15 tabs/caps).

I bet if you mention to your pharmacist friend that you passed on his advice that the body can handle up to 3 grams of Advil a day with no qualifying or cautionary remarks, he won't like it much.

Cindysphinx
07-10-2010, 04:15 PM
I think some of the young folks posting on this thread don't fully grasp this as applied to older people:

Rest is your friend.

Rest is your enemy.

By that I mean that if you have an injury, of course you shouldn't play on it and should rest it.

The problem, when you get older, is that rest also causes problems (at least, for me). The sorts of generic aches and pains one starts getting with age do not respond to rest -- in my experience they often get worse. That is a big difference between a young person and an older one, IMHO. The more sedentary I am, the more everything "locks up."

When I have a significant layoff from exercise, I start to have different problems. I feel like when I take time off, I am basically trading one problem for another. Yep, elbow feels better due to a break from tennis, but now my back hurts. Yep, knee feels better if I don't do sprints in my exercise class, but then it hurts a lot more when I run down a lob in a match.

But surely we can all agree that an active lifestyle -- even an "overactive" lifestyle as Raiden describes -- is 1000% better for an older person than a sedentary one. The people my age who don't exercise are . . . well, they're a mess. They might not be taking Advil, but they are taking *something.*

And I will bet any amount of money that Jack LaLane eats his share of Advil too!

charliefedererer
07-10-2010, 04:51 PM
Rest is your friend.

Rest is your enemy.


Finding that magical spot between being great shape and overuse injury is really the search for eternal youth.

Less jarring weight lifting, cycling, swimming, cross country skiing etc. seem to help tilt the balance away from painful joint syndromes, if you are going to stay in shape for a higher level of tennis.

charliefedererer
07-10-2010, 05:03 PM
Ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin) is so-so as an anti-inflammatory. It only inhibits one of the many pathways of inflammation.

It is actually a better pain reliever than an anti-inflammatory.

For the athlete, the risk is playing on into an over-use syndrome problem, including major joint (knee, shoulder, hip, elbow, wrist) problems.

Stay hydrated if you take any of the anti-inflammatories. The risk for kidney injury goes way up if you get dehydrated, as high concentrations of these medications occur because they are being filtered out in the kidney, and can affect the fragile kidney cells. This is more likely to happen during the hot summer.

SystemicAnomaly
07-10-2010, 05:50 PM
not kidding. do the research...

bad call is likely correct. Even an opiate like oxycodone or hydromorphone, assuming you're not sedated by it, would be safer for athletic performance than ibuprofen because it doesn't impact BP significantly. But I think I'd consider a different sport if I needed analgesics to play.

Still hoping to see some feedback from you guys regarding post #38 (page 2).

Fedace
07-10-2010, 05:55 PM
Ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin) is so-so as an anti-inflammatory. It only inhibits one of the many pathways of inflammation.

It is actually a better pain reliever than an anti-inflammatory.

For the athlete, the risk is playing on into an over-use syndrome problem, including major joint (knee, shoulder, hip, elbow, wrist) problems.

Stay hydrated if you take any of the anti-inflammatories. The risk for kidney injury goes way up if you get dehydrated, as high concentrations of these medications occur because they are being filtered out in the kidney, and can affect the fragile kidney cells. This is more likely to happen during the hot summer.

Either way you have to be well hydrated to play tennis anyway. i was so dehydrated, i was cramping in my ribcages

Fedace
07-10-2010, 05:56 PM
I think some of the young folks posting on this thread don't fully grasp this as applied to older people:

Rest is your friend.

Rest is your enemy.

By that I mean that if you have an injury, of course you shouldn't play on it and should rest it.

The problem, when you get older, is that rest also causes problems (at least, for me). The sorts of generic aches and pains one starts getting with age do not respond to rest -- in my experience they often get worse. That is a big difference between a young person and an older one, IMHO. The more sedentary I am, the more everything "locks up."

When I have a significant layoff from exercise, I start to have different problems. I feel like when I take time off, I am basically trading one problem for another. Yep, elbow feels better due to a break from tennis, but now my back hurts. Yep, knee feels better if I don't do sprints in my exercise class, but then it hurts a lot more when I run down a lob in a match.

But surely we can all agree that an active lifestyle -- even an "overactive" lifestyle as Raiden describes -- is 1000% better for an older person than a sedentary one. The people my age who don't exercise are . . . well, they're a mess. They might not be taking Advil, but they are taking *something.*

And I will bet any amount of money that Jack LaLane eats his share of Advil too!

RIiiiiiiiiiiGHT............. that is why you play in Senior division when you are old............lol

Centered
07-10-2010, 06:24 PM
1. Go to the auction site. Buy a Prince Woodie.
2. String it with the softest natural gut at a very low tension, like 40 lbs.
3. Play on clay or grass.
4. Use Penn ATP regular duty balls (they're light). Only use new balls.
5. Take fish oil.
6. Get plenty of sleep.
7. Play with people who don't hit hard.
8. If you get pain from running, then let balls go if you have to work too hard to get them.
9. Wear fresh high-quality shoes and thick socks.

Don't take pain medication to play sports.

Cindysphinx
07-10-2010, 07:30 PM
Finding that magical spot between being great shape and overuse injury is really the search for eternal youth.

Less jarring weight lifting, cycling, swimming, cross country skiing etc. seem to help tilt the balance away from painful joint syndromes, if you are going to stay in shape for a higher level of tennis.

The people I know who use weight lifting, cycling, swimming and walking as exercise have one thing in common: They move like manatees on a tennis court.

Tennis is a series of sprints, with hard stops and hard starts. Lots of weight-bearing, joint-taxing stuff involved. Being in general good shape won't cut it for tennis. You will be slow. Worse, you will try not to be slow on the court in match play and you will have *more* injuries because your body isn't used to it. IMHO.

I try to strike a balance to keep some agility and speed for tennis without overdoing it, but I do run hills and sprints (I've stopped doing most longer runs because I think the sprints are more beneficial if I have to choose). My experience has been that each layoff from the weight-bearing fitness work I do leads to worse tennis and a cascade of subsidiary injuries and aches.

I have no good answers about what can be done about all of this. Don't get old, I guess?

Cindy -- who was grown weary of partners who tell her about their awesome yoga, spinning or swimming routines while she is busy running down the lobs they can't track down

tennislefty
07-10-2010, 08:03 PM
mmm.sorry Cindy you are the one runnning down the lobs,,guess ill be the one throwing up the lobs? anyway..has anyone tried the "Insanity" hone video kick butt workouts? its incredible! makes running down a lob seam lie a walk in the park.. :)

kiteboard
07-10-2010, 09:35 PM
Never taken any pain killers, although I've seen some serious practice/broken bone pain from work as well. Juvenon, yeah, but no pain pills. Inflamation is better treated with ice, esp. in the first hr. or so. Ever see the major leg. pitchers, with ice bags as big as footballs on their throwing arms? http://www.petesice.com, right here in Montclair ca.

Frank Silbermann
07-10-2010, 10:50 PM
The people I know who use weight lifting, cycling, swimming and walking as exercise have one thing in common: They move like manatees on a tennis court.

Tennis is a series of sprints, with hard stops and hard starts. Lots of weight-bearing, joint-taxing stuff involved. Being in general good shape won't cut it for tennis. You will be slow. Worse, you will try not to be slow on the court in match play and you will have *more* injuries because your body isn't used to it. IMHO.
...
I am 54. I have _always_ been slow. I've put on 70 pounds since I started college (though I was underweight back then), so I'm a bit slower still.

I don't get a chance to play much, and when I do it's with guys who are _really_ old -- in their 70s. So in that company, I'm fast enough. To try to stay in shape, I do hit the backboard for several times a week for twenty minutes to an hour.

The only painkiller I take for tennis is sometimes an aspirin after a hard match when it's significantly hotter than I'm used to -- to prevent an exercise-induced headache. I don't take anything for bone or muscle pain or inflammation except fish oil and turmeric supplements.

Five years ago I had a six month layoff from exercise, and trying to get back into it since then I've had an unusually high (for me) number of injuries. Sore shoulder, tennis elbow, slightly torn meniscus, achilles tendenitis, low-back pain with sciatica. I took strong anti-inflammatories for five days for the sciatica because the doctor prescribed it, but aside from that I relied solely on the physical therapy for the back/sciatica and the meniscus. The tendinitis in the elbow and the achilles are getting better with taping/braces, rest, stretches and eccentric exercises.

Except for the tennis elbow (which I've abused -- wearing as many as three braces at once on my arm), I use pain as a signal to tell me when I need to take it easy for a while or to change something in my equipment or technique.

charliefedererer
07-11-2010, 06:46 AM
The people I know who use weight lifting, cycling, swimming and walking as exercise have one thing in common: They move like manatees on a tennis court.


But are they doing HIIT on their cycles, Nordic Track, etc. or just plodding along?

Are they pushing their heart rates into the 170's at peak exertion, or rarely breaking a sweat?

mlktennis
07-11-2010, 02:47 PM
You ever notice you urinate less after taking motrin/advil?

WildVolley
07-11-2010, 03:00 PM
From casual observation, there seem to be two camps in terms of the use of pain killers. Some people use them almost constantly, and others hardly use them at all.

I'm just interested in how many of you started using the pain killers often once you were over 45, versus those who have used them all along.

SystemicAnomaly
07-11-2010, 03:04 PM
You ever notice you urinate less after taking motrin/advil?

Does that really work? Sometimes I'll take a single (30mg) Sudafed (Pseudoephedrine) before heading out to the courts when I know I won't have ready access to a restroom for several hours. I'll make a point of doing this if I've ingested a lot or cocoa/coffee or other liquid prior to heading to the courts. The Pseudoephedrine is something of a performance enhancer -- it also seems to help me cope with my bad shoulder, hip flexors and knees.

slice bh compliment
07-11-2010, 03:10 PM
For those of you who want to avoid taking IBs, here's what I do (and it works):

Play hard, but warm up, then do dynamic stretches, then play, then do static stretches, then cool down.

Drink a lot of water.
Drink some aloe vera juice or eat the gel straight from the plant. This is not just for the skin. It is great for muscle soreness. It might even help with my knee problem from 20 yrs ago.
Drink coconut water as a sports drink.

If you are going to drink beer, it's best right after tennis. I think eating spicy food (garlic, chili peppers, jalapenos, ginger) is a great pain reliever, too. I love it as a recovery meal. Well, anytime really.

My 2 cents.

r2473
07-11-2010, 03:26 PM
Opinions certainly run the gamut.

I guess you can pretty much take your pick (as if this is different than anything else).

SystemicAnomaly
07-11-2010, 03:27 PM
For those of you who want to avoid taking IBs, here's what I do (and it works):

Play hard, but warm up, then do dynamic stretches, then play, then do static stretches, then cool down.

Drink a lot of water.
Drink some aloe vera juice or eat the gel straight from the plant. This is not just for the skin. It is great for muscle soreness. It might even help with my knee problem from 20 yrs ago.
Drink coconut water as a sports drink.

If you are going to drink beer, it's best right after tennis. I think eating spicy food (garlic, chili peppers, jalapenos, ginger) is a great pain reliever, too. I love it as a recovery meal. Well, anytime really...

Excellent countermeasures. I find that a good low-impact, aerobic/cardio warmup (15-20 mins) before heading over to the courts helps immensely. I use a number of other countermeasures as well to minimize my use of IB or other NSAIDs. I will post, in detail, when I get a chance.

OldButGame
07-11-2010, 06:49 PM
I am 54. I have _always_ been slow. I've put on 70 pounds since I started college (though I was underweight back then), so I'm a bit slower still.

I don't get a chance to play much, and when I do it's with guys who are _really_ old -- in their 70s. So in that company, I'm fast enough. To try to stay in shape, I do hit the backboard for several times a week for twenty minutes to an hour.

The only painkiller I take for tennis is sometimes an aspirin after a hard match when it's significantly hotter than I'm used to -- to prevent an exercise-induced headache. I don't take anything for bone or muscle pain or inflammation except fish oil and turmeric supplements.

Five years ago I had a six month layoff from exercise, and trying to get back into it since then I've had an unusually high (for me) number of injuries. Sore shoulder, tennis elbow, slightly torn meniscus, achilles tendenitis, low-back pain with sciatica. I took strong anti-inflammatories for five days for the sciatica because the doctor prescribed it, but aside from that I relied solely on the physical therapy for the back/sciatica and the meniscus. The tendinitis in the elbow and the achilles are getting better with taping/braces, rest, stretches and eccentric exercises.

Except for the tennis elbow (which I've abused -- wearing as many as three braces at once on my arm), I use pain as a signal to tell me when I need to take it easy for a while or to change something in my equipment or technique.
At 55,..I too am prone to avoid actual 'painkillers' (ibu),...because i want that feedback from my body if i hurt something. If i DO hurt something i dont want the pain 'masked' until i hurt that area worse.
That being said i DO work at keeping inflammation down,(shoulders,knees etc after years of sports/work abuse) with natural methods like fish oil, turmeric, ginger, boswelia, quercetin w/ bromeline, and MSM. I take these things before i play,....and sometimes immediately after. For me this approach is incredibly effective. After a match,..if i have a shoulder thats tender,...and i KNOW what that pain is about,..i may take 1 or 2 ibuprofen to supplement the natural methods. I do believe that ibuprofen is probably the most powerful (along with naproxyn/Aleve) OTC anti inflammatory. As others have said ,..ice is key too...if the area is bad enough,...i use ice,...if there is pain afterwards that warrants it.

In the big picture i take a multifaceted approach too,..which involves maintenance exercises derived from physical therapy, as well as other supplements that keep the joints healthy,..(glucosimine/chondroitin,....Hyaluronic acid). Theres also lots of anecdotal evidence from people here in these forums regarding racquets that are better or worse for causing or preventing damage.

Centered
07-11-2010, 06:53 PM
Cherries have a natural anti-inflammatory compound, I've read.

OldButGame
07-11-2010, 06:58 PM
...Yeah.....dont laugh now,...but i get occasional gout,.....(yeah yeah im old...grrrr),.....and as soon as i feel it coming on....(and it comes on FAST!!!)....i take cherry juice extract (capsules),...nettle,....quercetin w/bromeline and a LOT of ibuprofen for THAT !!!!!!.....works gfreat....gout usually never sets in fully.:)

rich s
07-11-2010, 07:51 PM
No Advil, Motrin, etc,..... only occasional ice packs on the ankles when needed....

I'm 44 this year.....

tlm
07-11-2010, 10:08 PM
Taking advil,aleve, or aspirin once in a while for an injury that is really bothering you is okay.

But to those that are using these pain killers all the time are asking for trouble.This is a very unwise thing to do.I agree with the suggestions to ice or massage.

But the bottom line is if you are aching this bad this often from tennis then you are not in good enough shape to be playing competitively.

You need to get in better shape plain+simple.To anyone here saying that weight lifting is not a good idea has no idea what they are talking about.

Weight training or some type of resistance training is the key to injury prevention.Please dont believe the old bs about getting to much muscle+slowing you down.That old wise tale should have died in the 80's.

Do you know how hard it is to really gain enough muscle to slow you down?There is a reason bodybuilders take steroids.

You are not lifting to get bigger, you are lifting to get tone.You strengthen your bones,soft tissue,joints+muscle.

Most of the players i know that play tennis have office jobs+are not very active.Then they play competitive tennis a couple of times a week+they dont understand why they get injured.

Add to that that a lot of the players are at least in their 30's if not their 40's.There is no surprise that many suffer injuries.

If you work up to it you can play yourself into shape, but i would strongly recommend some weight training at least a couple times a week

Believe me that resistance training is the key to injury prevention.I also agree with good warm ups+stretching to prevent injury.

I am 54 years old play tennis 5-6 times a week all year+ i am rarely injured.I take aleve or aspirin maybe once every few months+when i do i take them it is only for a couple days.

I also weight lift at least 2-3 times a week.I have been lifting for years+now my workouts are more for injury prevention, rather than getting bigger+stronger.

I picked this game up late in life+at first i played so much that i did not have time to lift much, but i soon found out that i was getting injured because i quit training.

After that i always make sure that i workout a minimum of 2-3 times a week.Which i know helps me stay on the court.

When i say i play almost everyday i am talking about singles not doubles.I usually play 3 matches a week+on the other days i hit with my wife+the ball machine+ do drilling.

I play a baseline grinding game which is very grueling.I am not trying to brag i am just trying to prove that all of you need to drop the pills+start training!!!!!!!!!!!!

Centered
07-11-2010, 10:16 PM
To anyone here saying that weight lifting is not a good idea has no idea what they are talking about.

Weight training or some type of resistance training is the key to injury prevention.
I have a friend who got TE in both elbows from doing weights, and he never had any TE problems prior.

I ruined my lower back doing weights.

I am not a fan of weight lifting. Older folks especially are likely better off doing water exercise if they want resistance.

SystemicAnomaly
07-11-2010, 10:50 PM
Cherries have a natural anti-inflammatory compound, I've read.

I've heard/read the same thing about cherry juice and green tea. There are are number of spices/herbs that are also anti-inflammatory have been touted to be COX-2 inhibitors. OldButGame has mentioned some of these in his first post above (and I've talked about them in previous threads as well).

Talker
07-11-2010, 11:22 PM
Watch out for tylenol, dangerous stuff. Reduces glutathione rapidly in the liver, leaving your liver at risk. You may not know it till a lot of damage has been done already. If you take it then take some N-acytel cysteine with it. This stuff is in all kinds of stuff, even cold medicine.


Just How Dangerous Is Acetaminophen?
Each year, acetaminophen poisoning results in 100,000 calls to poison control centers, 56,000 emergency room visits, 26,000 hospitalizations, and more than 450 deaths from liver failure.30

Acetaminophen’s deadly effects extend beyond the liver. Regular users of acetaminophen may double their risk of kidney cancer, a disease that kills 12,000 Americans each year. 25,26,31-33 The incidence of kidney cancer in the US has risen 126% since the 1950s,34 a jump that may be tied to the growing use of drugs containing acetaminophen and its metabolites.

Because acetaminophen generates damaging free radicals throughout the body, it may very well increase the risk of many age-related diseases. In fact, scientists can consistently induce cataracts in the eyes of laboratory animals by giving them acetaminophen.35 They consider acetaminophen a “cataratogenic agent.” Interestingly, if antioxidants are provided to the animals, the cataract-inducing effects36-40 of acetaminophen are often completely neutralized.41,42

Talker
07-11-2010, 11:44 PM
At 55,..I too am prone to avoid actual 'painkillers' (ibu),...because i want that feedback from my body if i hurt something. If i DO hurt something i dont want the pain 'masked' until i hurt that area worse.
That being said i DO work at keeping inflammation down,(shoulders,knees etc after years of sports/work abuse) with natural methods like fish oil, turmeric, ginger, boswelia, quercetin w/ bromeline, and MSM. I take these things before i play,....and sometimes immediately after. For me this approach is incredibly effective. After a match,..if i have a shoulder thats tender,...and i KNOW what that pain is about,..i may take 1 or 2 ibuprofen to supplement the natural methods. I do believe that ibuprofen is probably the most powerful (along with naproxyn/Aleve) OTC anti inflammatory. As others have said ,..ice is key too...if the area is bad enough,...i use ice,...if there is pain afterwards that warrants it.

In the big picture i take a multifaceted approach too,..which involves maintenance exercises derived from physical therapy, as well as other supplements that keep the joints healthy,..(glucosimine/chondroitin,....Hyaluronic acid). Theres also lots of anecdotal evidence from people here in these forums regarding racquets that are better or worse for causing or preventing damage.

There was a thread on anti inflamation here:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=333116

tlm
07-12-2010, 04:30 AM
I will repeat do not listen to anyone bashing weight training.It is the best way to play without taking painkillers.

According to centered he ruined his back from weight training+his friend developed te.

I am not talking about power lifting,I am referring to good sound weight training.

You need to start out slow+ work up gradually like with any new form of exercise.

ProgressoR
07-12-2010, 04:47 AM
when i had some elbow pain i took some cataflam (my wife had them for something and i tried them and worked well for me) for a couple of weeks. Luckily i dont need to take anything now, i am 39 and play 3-5 times a week, body just about holding together.

Reading the above posts it looks like all painkillers have potentially serious side effects, not all of them noticeable early on. That is quite worrying.

SystemicAnomaly
07-12-2010, 06:11 AM
... For athletic pain, Tylenol makes much more sense. Normal doses don't impact the liver, there's no BP problems, and it doesn't interfere with the inflammation that actually heals the damage you did playing the sport.

Watch out for tylenol, dangerous stuff. Reduces glutathione rapidly in the liver, leaving your liver at risk. You may not know it till a lot of damage has been done already. If you take it then take some N-acytel cysteine with it. This stuff is in all kinds of stuff, even cold medicine.

Yeah, I've gotta say that Tylenol scares me. It is not an NSAID, but its side effects, particularly its effects on the liver, seem to be no less daunting. Also, when inflammation gets out of hand, Tylenol does not provide any benefit (its anti-inflammatory response is virtually nil).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tylenol#Dangers
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/46/18211

NYtimes.com/2002/09/20/us/warnings-sought-for-popular-painkiller.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/20/us/warnings-sought-for-popular-painkiller.html)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/27/health/27awar.html?_r=2
.

Cindysphinx
07-12-2010, 08:00 AM
This conversation reminds me of the way new moms talk about epidurals.

One mom says she got the epidural. A bunch of other moms chime in to say how horrible epidurals are. A little pain never hurt anyone. "I didn't need an epidural, so why should you?" "All I needed was some massage."

Let's not get hysterical here. Advil is fine. Use it wisely and you will be fine. Abuse it and you will likely not be fine.

SystemicAnomaly
07-12-2010, 08:33 AM
^ It's a slippery slope. You start off with 200-400 mg every once in a while. Then you discover that you need 600-800 mg of IB several times a day in order to get an anti-inflammatory response. Before you know it you're up to a daily dose of 2400-3200 mg three to 5x a week or more.

r2473
07-12-2010, 08:39 AM
^ It's a slippery slope. You start off with 200-400 mg every once in a while. Then you discover that you need 600-800 mg of IB several times a day in order to get an anti-inflammatory response. Before you know it you're up to a daily dose of 2400-3200 mg three to 5x a week or more.

Chorus:
We been dancin' with Mr. Brownstone
He's been knockin'
He won't leave me alone
No, no ,no, he won't leave me alone
I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do
So the little got more and more
I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
Said the little better than before
I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do
So the little got more and more
I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
Said the little better than before

kiteboard
07-12-2010, 09:09 AM
Any player, older or not, who plays hard and hits hard needs these:

http://juvenon.com/index.html?campaign=google1003&gclid=CPOg7cqv5qICFQkXawodpTij9g

And this: http://www.petesice.com

No drugs.

Lots of ice

Talker
07-12-2010, 11:37 AM
Any player, older or not, who plays hard and hits hard needs these:

http://juvenon.com/index.html?campaign=google1003&gclid=CPOg7cqv5qICFQkXawodpTij9g

And this: http://www.petesice.com

No drugs.

Lots of ice

I've been using acetyl carnitine and r-lipoic acid for some time.
Two powerful nutrients here. :)

I highly recommend both and they work well together and with other nutrients also.

SystemicAnomaly
07-12-2010, 01:21 PM
Any player, older or not, who plays hard and hits hard needs these:

http://juvenon.com/index.html?campaign=google1003&gclid=CPOg7cqv5qICFQkXawodpTij9g

And this: http://www.petesice.com (http://www.petesice.com/) ...

I use a daily dose of ALCAR (500 mg) and ALA (100-300 mg). Sometimes I'll use 50-100 mg/day of a superior form of ALA, R-Lipoic Acid (http://www.nutritionalcenter.com/site/en/catalog/product/15855) instead. While ALCAR and ALA seems like it might be a good idea for middle age and older folks for cellular health, why would a younger player need to worry about this?

Cindysphinx
07-12-2010, 01:34 PM
^ It's a slippery slope. You start off with 200-400 mg every once in a while. Then you discover that you need 600-800 mg of IB several times a day in order to get an anti-inflammatory response. Before you know it you're up to a daily dose of 2400-3200 mg three to 5x a week or more.

Where's the science supporting the idea that Advil is habit forming or that its effectiveness diminishes with use such that one must continually up the dose?

My experience has been the opposite. When I had my knee surgery in 2005, I had a hard time with recovery. I would do PT, but I could never get over the hump. I would do the exercises and ice etc., but I would get swelling which seemed to undo the strengthening I was doing.

My doctor put me on Celebrex for 2 weeks (or was it 3?), and I continued the PT. (Celebrex because I could never tolerate prescription strength Advil for that long). The Celebrex controlled the inflammation just enough for me to build strength. I didn't need increasing doses of Celebrex or any NSAID. I needed what I needed.

SystemicAnomaly
07-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Where's the science supporting the idea that Advil is habit forming or that its effectiveness diminishes with use such that one must continually up the dose?

I was primarily referring to my own experience. I know other older players that have had similar experiences. When I hit my mid-50s, daily pain & inflammation was just a fact of life. Now that I'm 58 I've found safer alternatives to ingesting 2400 mg or IB per day.

Centered
07-12-2010, 03:44 PM
I am not talking about power lifting,I am referring to good sound weight training.
Nor am I.

My friend said he did light weights, high reps. He couldn't play tennis after that for months.

I have yet to see any medical professional argue that water-based resistance exercise is more dangerous for the bodies of older folks than weight lifting is.

Cindysphinx
07-12-2010, 05:59 PM
I was primarily referring to my own experience. I know other older players that have had similar experiences. When I hit my mid-50s, daily pain & inflammation was just a fact of life. Now that I'm 58 I've found safer alternatives to ingesting 2400 mg or IB per day.

Yeah, 2400 mg of IB is a lot.

Getting old really stinks. I never thought it would happen to me . . . .

OldButGame
07-12-2010, 06:07 PM
...and then theres workouts that used to be exhilarating and satisfying that evolve into 'body maintenance so You can keep playing' workouts,....
like constant physical therapy for various parts of the body,......(i'm gonna invent 'Human Duct Tape',.....Ya know,...for all those 'iffy' body parts....:(

Fedace
07-12-2010, 06:16 PM
Yeah, 2400 mg of IB is a lot.

Getting old really stinks. I never thought it would happen to me . . . .

are you kidding me ??? 2400mg per day. might as well smoke 20 pack of cigarrette per day and see what happens.

Fedace
07-12-2010, 06:19 PM
I've been using acetyl carnitine and r-lipoic acid for some time.
Two powerful nutrients here. :)

I highly recommend both and they work well together and with other nutrients also.

What does it exactly do for you and your tennis ??? and how long does it take to take effect ?? we use L-Carnitine in our Dialysis patients but its not for slowing down aging.
and does it have any Side effects ??? Resveratrol which is another Powerful Anti-aging drug has bad side effect like Joint Pain.:(:(

Fedace
07-12-2010, 06:20 PM
^ It's a slippery slope. You start off with 200-400 mg every once in a while. Then you discover that you need 600-800 mg of IB several times a day in order to get an anti-inflammatory response. Before you know it you're up to a daily dose of 2400-3200 mg three to 5x a week or more.

Why not just use MORE potent NSAID if you are going to use such high dose of Motrin ?? Use something like Mobic which is much more powerful and only 15 mg is needed to have same effect as 800mg of motrin.:???:

OldButGame
07-12-2010, 06:27 PM
Acetyl Carnitine along with Alpha Lipoic Acid,....has been shown to revitalize, and repair the mitochondria of the human body,...mitochondria being the bodys 'energy producers'. Theres ample info on the web and many studies done to support this. The question is how much would a person have to take to reap these benefits?,....i take them daily,....based on what science has revealed to date,...
....Carnitine is given to dialysis patients b/c of its impact on red blood cells,.....(a factor that can enhance cardiovascular performance,...again the question being...how much???:-?

Fedace
07-12-2010, 06:46 PM
Acetyl Carnitine along with Alpha Lipoic Acid,....has been shown to revitalize, and repair the mitochondria of the human body,...mitochondria being the bodys 'energy producers'. Theres ample info on the web and many studies done to support this. The question is how much would a person have to take to reap these benefits?,....i take them daily,....based on what science has revealed to date,...
....Carnitine is given to dialysis patients b/c of its impact on red blood cells,.....(a factor that can enhance cardiovascular performance,...again the question being...how much???:-?

OK so What does it Exactly do for you ??? does it make you last longer in tennis match like you can play 5 sets now,,,,but before you used to get tired after 3 sets ??? and did it make you feel YOUNGER ??? like you feel like you are Faster now on court ??????????? Which is it ?:confused::confused:

SystemicAnomaly
07-12-2010, 06:47 PM
Why not just use MORE potent NSAID if you are going to use such high dose of Motrin ?? Use something like Mobic which is much more powerful and only 15 mg is needed to have same effect as 800mg of motrin.:???:

IB was my NSAID of choice cuz of its reported effects on the onset of Alzheimer's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibuprofen#Off-label_and_investigational_use). My Mom is in the advanced stages of AD and I was experiencing some major memory and attention problems in my mid/late 40s. I started stepping up my other countermeasures to improve the memory issues.

Fedace
07-12-2010, 06:51 PM
IB was my NSAID of choice cuz of its reported effects on the onset of Alzheimer's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibuprofen#Off-label_and_investigational_use). My Mom is in the advanced stages of AD and I was experiencing some major memory and attention problems in my mid/late 40s. I started stepping up my other countermeasures to improve the memory issues.

I SEE. i hope you don't run into some nasty side effects of high dose Motrin. Anyway, did you know about Resveratrol and current studies going on at Harvard medical school on using it for Alzeimer's. Some proming early results......

OldButGame
07-12-2010, 06:54 PM
OK so What does it Exactly do for you ??? does it make you last longer in tennis match like you can play 5 sets now,,,,but before you used to get tired after 3 sets ??? and did it make you feel YOUNGER ??? like you feel like you are Faster now on court ??????????? Which is it ?:confused::confused:
...'Theoretically',.......it will help with all of these things,....but then again,...i also think its 'dose dependent',....I dont take much,...its a little expensive,....and part of it is just cuz i 'believe' in t. If i see enough documentation saying the same thing,...'I Believe'...(sorta like Mulder),....and belief is another whole part of it. Long answer to 'Yes i believe it helps me do those things,...:)'

Fedace
07-12-2010, 06:57 PM
...'Theoretically',.......it will help with all of these things,....but then again,...i also think its 'dose dependent',....I dont take much,...its a little expensive,....and part of it is just cuz i 'believe' in t. If i see enough documentation saying the same thing,...'I Believe'...(sorta like Mulder),....and belief is another whole part of it. Long answer to 'Yes i believe it helps me do those things,...:)'

Have you seen or heard about any side effects ??? like i said, that Resveratrol has nasty joint pain side effect so i stoped taking it. but i heard they are working on this issue...

OldButGame
07-12-2010, 07:02 PM
No...havent heard about side effects....but i always encourage people to do their own research before taking ANYTHING!!!!!.....(never ingest stuff cuz 'Joe Blow' said You should......Joe Blow just 'points You in the direction,'.....:))

Centered
07-12-2010, 09:07 PM
Acetyl Carnitine along with Alpha Lipoic Acid,....has been shown to revitalize, and repair the mitochondria of the human body,...mitochondria being the bodys 'energy producers'. Theres ample info on the web and many studies done to support this. The question is how much would a person have to take to reap these benefits?,....i take them daily,....based on what science has revealed to date,...
....Carnitine is given to dialysis patients b/c of its impact on red blood cells,.....(a factor that can enhance cardiovascular performance,...again the question being...how much???:-?
Alpha Lipoic acid has mixed results. I have personally had strong acid reflux from taking it, as well as other side-effects, like the "pins and needles"/numbness issue. And I got those from only taking half of a pill. There was also some question about it becoming an oxidant in a certain situation as I recall, although I'm unable to find the info at the moment.

I don't have any of those symptoms when I don't take ALA. So, I don't take ALA anymore.

Side effects of alpha lipoic acid may include headache, tingling or a "pins and needles" sensation, skin rash, or muscle cramps.

There have been a few reports in Japan of a rare condition called insulin autoimmune syndrome in people using alpha lipoic acid. The condition causes hypoglycemia and antibodies directed against the body's own insulin without previous insulin therapy.

The safety of alpha lipoic acid in pregnant or nursing women, children, or people with kidney or liver disease is unknown. Animal studies indicate that alpha lipoic acid may alter thyroid hormone levels, so it could theoretically have the same effect in humans.

Talker
07-12-2010, 10:50 PM
What does it exactly do for you and your tennis ??? and how long does it take to take effect ?? we use L-Carnitine in our Dialysis patients but its not for slowing down aging.
and does it have any Side effects ??? Resveratrol which is another Powerful Anti-aging drug has bad side effect like Joint Pain.:(:(

The best form is sodium-R-lipoic acid or Na RALA. It takes about 20 minutes to get into your system. Increases glutathione which is one of its benefits. Helps other vitamins like C and E.

I don't know about the tennis court performance though. :)

Resveratrol I have read some problems with like you say. It's supposed to chelate copper and interferes with collegen production, not good.
Anything like this is best to wait till it has more testing done, could be resveratrol needs co-factors to work with it, the jury is still out.

SystemicAnomaly
07-13-2010, 06:45 AM
The best form is sodium-R-lipoic acid or Na RALA. It takes about 20 minutes to get into your system. Increases glutathione which is one of its benefits. Helps other vitamins like C and E....

Resveratrol I have read some problems with like you say. It's supposed to chelate copper and interferes with collegen production, not good.
Anything like this is best to wait till it has more testing done, could be resveratrol needs co-factors to work with it, the jury is still out.

Get my resveratrol from red wine (1/2 glass of Merlot/day), Concord grape juice, peanuts, peanut butter, hot cocoa and dark chocolate. Probably getting the required co-factors from some of these sources.

Was only vaguely aware of Na-R-ALA (aka NaRLA), the sodium salt relative of the acid form. Will have to look further into this. I am aware that R-ALA has at least twice the bioavailability of synthetic ALA (which is a 50/50 mix of the R- form and the unusable S- form of ALA). Is the Na salt version any more bioavailable than the acid form, R-ALA? More stable?

I noticed that the most common size of the Na-R-ALA supplements seems to be 300 mg, altho' I have seen a couple of sources that are 100 mg. This seems a bit high. Dr. Ray Sahelian recommends a mere 10-50 mg/day (or several times/week) of R-ALA for long tern use. 50 mg of R-ALA may be as effective (or more effective) than 100 mg of synthetic ALA. If Na-R-ALA is more effective than R-ALA, then it would suggest that it should be used only 2-3x a week at 100 mg.

Dr Sahelain does tend to be a bit on the conservative side but that has become my philosophy as well. His recommendation for ALCAR is 200-400 mg in the morning, several times a week (and no more than 500 mg/day).

Talker
07-13-2010, 11:43 AM
Get my resveratrol from red wine (1/2 glass of Merlot/day), Concord grape juice, peanuts, peanut butter, hot cocoa and dark chocolate. Probably getting the required co-factors from some of these sources.

Was only vaguely aware of Na-R-ALA (aka NaRLA), the sodium salt relative of the acid form. Will have to look further into this. I am aware that R-ALA has at least twice the bioavailability of synthetic ALA (which is a 50/50 mix of the R- form and the unusable S- form of ALA). Is the Na salt version any more bioavailable than the acid form, R-ALA? More stable?

I noticed that the most common size of the Na-R-ALA supplements seems to be 300 mg, altho' I have seen a couple of sources that are 100 mg. This seems a bit high. Dr. Ray Sahelian recommends a mere 10-50 mg/day (or several times/week) of R-ALA for long tern use. 50 mg of R-ALA may be as effective (or more effective) than 100 mg of synthetic ALA. If Na-R-ALA is more effective than R-ALA, then it would suggest that it should be used only 2-3x a week at 100 mg.

Dr Sahelain does tend to be a bit on the conservative side but that has become my philosophy as well. His recommendation for ALCAR is 200-400 mg in the morning, several times a week (and no more than 500 mg/day).

Out of 300 mg you get about 210 mg of actual R lipoic acid.

B i o-Enhanced®, Stabilized Na-RALA (as sodium R-lipoate providing 210 mg of R-Lipoic acid) 300 mg

I was taking 600 mg a day for awhile(420 mg R-Lipoic acid)


June 2008
As the amount of lipoic acid produced by the body decreases with aging, supplementation may be necessary to maintain adequate levels. Scientific studies showing the health benefits of alpha-lipoic acid have used doses ranging from 300 to 1,800 mg/day. For optimal benefits, some nutritionists recommend that it is taken with biotin and vitamin B complex. Remember that R-lipoic acid is twice as potent as alpha-lipoic acid. That’s because alpha lipoic acid consists of only 50% active R-lipoic and 50% inactive S-lipoic acid.

While there are several forms of lipoic acid on the market, many of them have been shown to be relatively unstable in the body. This property undermines their bioavailability, which leads to poor absorption.

In a dramatic new study, researchers have overcome these polymerization problems by developing an advanced new formulation of lipoic acid, which is being referred to as the next-generation lipoic acid. This new discovery converts the biologically active “R” form of lipoic acid to sodium-R-lipoic acid (NaRLA) to create a more stable, potent product.

A preliminary study has indicated that NaRLA is superior to other forms of lipoic acid by achieving dramatically higher plasma levels of lipoic acid sooner than pure R-lipoic acid. The authors of this study refer to this unique formulation as the most bioavailable form of lipoic acid. This enhanced potency, says one of the study’s co-authors, reflects a maximum plasma concentration that is 10-30 times higher than pure R-lipoic acid.

Unlike other forms of lipoic acid, NaRLA is completely water-soluble, which offers an innovative solution in that it does not have to be restricted to capsules and tablets, but can also be taken as a powdered drink mix.

These impressive findings offer an effective and well-tolerated application for the vast array of health benefits conferred by lipoic acid.

rh310
07-15-2010, 08:44 AM
I never take any pain med before tennis, but will take Advil afterward when inflammation flares up (shoulder, foot)

ollinger
07-15-2010, 09:38 AM
One of the more stunning (and dangerous) fallacies perpetuated on this board is that levels of various substances that decline with age in your body should be augmented to maintain the prior level of a younger age. Such reasoning fails to ask the obvious evolutionary question of why these declines might occur. It's noted above that lipoic acid should be supplemented because it declines with age. Hmmmm. We know that growth hormone levels for example decline with age, but this appears to be desirable, since, as has been reported widely in Lancet and elsewhere, growth hormone is more likely to not only increase the growth of cancers as we get older but probably increase the risk of new ones. Dopamine levels in the brain decline with age, and this may be adaptive as the brain's tolerance of dopamine decreases with age, as demonstrated by the extraordinarily high rate of psychosis when dopamine stimulating agents (L-DOPA, bromocriptine, opiates) are given to the elderly. Androgen levels in men decline with age, something you may grieve until you realize that androgens promote the growth of prostate cancers and perhaps other cancers as well, including brain and liver. The list goes on, the point being that our physiology changes in many ways as we age and it's naive to think that some of those changes aren't evolutionarily adaptive; trying to boost the level of whatever chemical in your body from its age 50 level back to its age 20 level may be foolish and dangerous.

Talker
07-15-2010, 02:32 PM
I think you need to contact some of Talker's links. I'm sure there's an amino acid, enzyme, or co-factor that, when given in massive doses, will save your palms from razor burn.

Did someone mention massive doses? :)

D-3-50 (50,000IU) 100ct
$30.00 100ct IN-STOCK

Each capsule supplies:
Vitamin D3 – 50,000IU

Inactive Ingredients:
Microcrystalline cellulose, fumed silica
Products: Vitamin D (Cholecalciferol)


http://www.lifespannutrition.com/picture_library/887.gif

jswinf
07-15-2010, 08:41 PM
One of the more stunning (and dangerous) fallacies perpetuated on this board is that levels of various substances that decline with age in your body should be augmented to maintain the prior level of a younger age. Such reasoning fails to ask the obvious evolutionary question of why these declines might occur..

You make some excellent points, but couldn't one reason for some declines be the evolutionary need for aging individuals to die and make room for new generations? And what fun is that? (If you're the aging indiviual.)

rh310
07-15-2010, 08:50 PM
One of the more stunning (and dangerous) fallacies perpetuated on this board is that levels of various substances that decline with age in your body should be augmented to maintain the prior level of a younger age. Such reasoning fails to ask the obvious evolutionary question of why these declines might occur.


Over evolutionary timescales, humans generally didn't live long enough to become very old. We're breaking new evolutionary ground by having longer average lifespans.

Talker
07-15-2010, 10:16 PM
One of the more stunning (and dangerous) fallacies perpetuated on this board is that levels of various substances that decline with age in your body should be augmented to maintain the prior level of a younger age. Such reasoning fails to ask the obvious evolutionary question of why these declines might occur. It's noted above that lipoic acid should be supplemented because it declines with age. Hmmmm. We know that growth hormone levels for example decline with age, but this appears to be desirable, since, as has been reported widely in Lancet and elsewhere, growth hormone is more likely to not only increase the growth of cancers as we get older but probably increase the risk of new ones. Dopamine levels in the brain decline with age, and this may be adaptive as the brain's tolerance of dopamine decreases with age, as demonstrated by the extraordinarily high rate of psychosis when dopamine stimulating agents (L-DOPA, bromocriptine, opiates) are given to the elderly. Androgen levels in men decline with age, something you may grieve until you realize that androgens promote the growth of prostate cancers and perhaps other cancers as well, including brain and liver. The list goes on, the point being that our physiology changes in many ways as we age and it's naive to think that some of those changes aren't evolutionarily adaptive; trying to boost the level of whatever chemical in your body from its age 50 level back to its age 20 level may be foolish and dangerous.

Some things should be maintained to younger levels.
There's all kind of things we can alter a little bit here and there and get a few more miles out of our body.

It doesn't make sense that eveything would have a bad result, we find out through studies and testing, then verification.

The list of helpful intervention thru nutrients is growing, there is no reason to reject this because of some all encompassing philosophy, what ever it may be.

There wasn't much of this intervention 100 years ago, just a natural diet. The chances of seeing a 60 year old doing any kind of athletic endeaver back then was extremely rare compared to today.

Don't think because nature acts in a certain way that it's in our best interest. We already know the end result.

ollinger
07-16-2010, 08:59 AM
A rebuttal with no information?? "Some things should be maintained to younger levels." Uhhh, no, that's a completely unsupported assertion. "The chances of seeing a 60 year old doing any kind of athletic endeavor back then was extremely rare." Uhhh, no, retirement is a concept developed in the early 20th century, and people used to work hard until death, unlike now. People live longer now mainly because of the invention of antibiotics in the mid 20th century. What's interesting about the supplement industry is how little good evidence there is of benefit, and we've seen evidence of harm with things like kava kava, vitamin E, oyster shell calcium supplements that also contain lead, and others. I don't reject all supplements -- I think there's ample data to support taking fish oil -- but no adequate data for most of them.

OldButGame
07-16-2010, 09:48 AM
A rebuttal with no information?? "Some things should be maintained to younger levels." Uhhh, no, that's a completely unsupported assertion. "The chances of seeing a 60 year old doing any kind of athletic endeavor back then was extremely rare." Uhhh, no, retirement is a concept developed in the early 20th century, and people used to work hard until death, unlike now. People live longer now mainly because of the invention of antibiotics in the mid 20th century. What's interesting about the supplement industry is how little good evidence there is of benefit, and we've seen evidence of harm with things like kava kava, vitamin E, oyster shell calcium supplements that also contain lead, and others. I don't reject all supplements -- I think there's ample data to support taking fish oil -- but no adequate data for most of them.
It seems to me that a wise person looks at the preponderance of evidence in any given subject. I'm aware that tomorrow i might read a 'News Flash',...that the death of a group of horses in notheast Asia is suspected to be attributed to the ingestion of glucosamine/chondroitin.
Am i going to abandon using that supplement??,....especially when its benefits have been shown many times both experimentally and anecdotally to be beneficial???. Frequently, For nearly every 'Panic Story' regarding a supplement,....there are far more benefit examples.
The earlier reference to hormonal therapy is frought with 'twisted logic'.
The decline in many human hormones is one of the leading theories in human aging , disease, and death. The decline of the human condition, disease, and ultimately death exactly parallels the decline of these hormones. Interestingly, these same hormones peak when most humans 'peak' at around 18-30 yrs of age.
Growth hormone has been used in children with growth issues. Androgen
(testoterone) therapy is used in men (and women) with abnormally low levels, and to treat sexual dysfunctions in both genders. Testosterone can in fact lead to prostate cancer. Testosterone is partly converted by the body to dihydrotestosterone and THIS is the component that lends to prostate cancer. This conversion can be addressed and blocked, in individuals receiving testosterone patches/injections etc.
Melatonin has been given to aged rats and their coats went from gray to black and their activity levels increased markedly. (Yes I know I know, rats are not humans,...)

If this decline in hormones was in fact 'Natures Evolutioary Response',....then it seems we would not see the highest incidence of cancer in the elderly,....the rate of disease in the eldrly,...and the overall decline of the human condition with age. However this is the reality we ARE presented with,..and it directly corresponds to the decline of the human hormonal response.

Understand, i do not advocate the random use and supplementation of hormonal therapy. I believe their effects on the body are profound and have a very delicate balance. I do believe though that careful study, personal research, is a worthy endeavor in this area and that a person might do themselves more GOOD than bad by careful use of these agents (within a legal context). Some these things are available as OTC supplements,...and in the US,...IF there was indeed danger inherent in the use of an item,...it would quickly be removed as has happened on rare occasions in the past.

rh310
07-18-2010, 05:24 PM
A rebuttal with no information?? "Some things should be maintained to younger levels." Uhhh, no, that's a completely unsupported assertion. "The chances of seeing a 60 year old doing any kind of athletic endeavor back then was extremely rare." Uhhh, no, retirement is a concept developed in the early 20th century, and people used to work hard until death, unlike now. People live longer now mainly because of the invention of antibiotics in the mid 20th century. What's interesting about the supplement industry is how little good evidence there is of benefit, and we've seen evidence of harm with things like kava kava, vitamin E, oyster shell calcium supplements that also contain lead, and others. I don't reject all supplements -- I think there's ample data to support taking fish oil -- but no adequate data for most of them.

Your mixing your arguments. If you're saying there's a lot of health crap being sold without strong scientific support, that's undoubtedly true.

If you're saying that there's some "obvious evolutionary" reason for the measurable chemical difference between young and older folks, that's a completely different argument (and one, interestingly, that you yourself don't provide any adequate data for, from the standpoint of evolutionary biology).

It doesn't look like you really know what your point is.

ollinger
07-18-2010, 05:55 PM
An "obvious" evolutionary reason?? Certainly not. I said, and believe, there's an "evolutionary question" here. Perhaps that obfuscated my point, which was that the fact that a chemical was at a certain level in your body at 20 doesn't mean you'll want it there at 50. Data? Yes....we see that bringing GH or androgen levels of a 50 year old back to the levels of a 20 year old greatly increases cancer risk. You can look it up. Likewise, bringing brain dopamine activity in a 50 year old back to 20 year old levels greatly increases risk of psychosis. You can look it up. If lipoic acid levels decline with age, is it a good idea to supplement them? Don't know, but I don't assume the answer is yes.

OldButGame
07-18-2010, 06:41 PM
This thread started with a question about ibuprofen,...understandably grew to talk of other SUPPLEMENTS,.....and You're talking about dopamine??....a neurotransmitter????.....kind of making a leap there aren't we???...the 'links to psychosis' you speak of were in the presence of "'abnormally high levels of dopamine". The kind of supplements these folks are talking about doesn't induce "abnormally high levels of dopamine". There are no guarantees in life. However if i see enough good evidence that carnitine & ALA do very good things for me,...and few to none bad....(look THAT up,...),..then i will place my faith in science,....and the experimental method. And yes i know that some supplements can subtley effect neurotransmitters. Not to the degree you speak of in the aged. This is where it falls on the consumer to be 'an educated consumer' and research what they get into. i take many supplements. But i research them to death before i ever begin to take them.

Talker
07-18-2010, 07:01 PM
A rebuttal with no information?? "Some things should be maintained to younger levels." Uhhh, no, that's a completely unsupported assertion. "The chances of seeing a 60 year old doing any kind of athletic endeavor back then was extremely rare." Uhhh, no, retirement is a concept developed in the early 20th century, and people used to work hard until death, unlike now. People live longer now mainly because of the invention of antibiotics in the mid 20th century. What's interesting about the supplement industry is how little good evidence there is of benefit, and we've seen evidence of harm with things like kava kava, vitamin E, oyster shell calcium supplements that also contain lead, and others. I don't reject all supplements -- I think there's ample data to support taking fish oil -- but no adequate data for most of them.

I don't want to bog the thread down with particulars and bore the others anymore than I have, probably.
There's adequate data for almost every mainstream vitamin there is, this is where your posts are troubling.

We do have RDA's, recommended daily allowance. Would we have this if there where no studies showing any benefit?

I have decided to give you a link, read it and then comeback.
I do agree with some of your posts BTW. :)

You may not agree with all the studies, but will learn quit a bit, just follow the links at your leisure.
http://www.qualitycounts.com/

OldButGame
07-18-2010, 07:07 PM
Very interesting link Talker!!!...Thanks!!!:)http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

Talker
07-18-2010, 07:15 PM
Very interesting link Talker!!!...Thanks!!!:)http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

No problemo, see you in about a month. :)

rh310
07-19-2010, 04:50 AM
An "obvious" evolutionary reason?? Certainly not. I said, and believe, there's an "evolutionary question" here. Perhaps that obfuscated my point, which was that the fact that a chemical was at a certain level in your body at 20 doesn't mean you'll want it there at 50. Data? Yes....we see that bringing GH or androgen levels of a 50 year old back to the levels of a 20 year old greatly increases cancer risk. You can look it up. Likewise, bringing brain dopamine activity in a 50 year old back to 20 year old levels greatly increases risk of psychosis. You can look it up. If lipoic acid levels decline with age, is it a good idea to supplement them? Don't know, but I don't assume the answer is yes.

I agree that referencing age and evolutionary biology in the argument (your "obvious evolutionary questions") without then basing your argument on age and evolutionary biology might have confused things a little. :)

For example, overclocking the brain via sustained, high dopamine levels will encourage psychotic breaks in anyone, regardless of their age.

I also agree that just blindly dosing yourself with chemicals can backfire. This certainly isn't news.

But right now, not enough is known about the balance, mix, and interactions of these chemicals and compounds in the human body to say for sure that age is the key counter-indicator for their use.

GuyClinch
07-26-2010, 05:21 PM
An "obvious" evolutionary reason?? Certainly not. I said, and believe, there's an "evolutionary question" here. Perhaps that obfuscated my point, which was that the fact that a chemical was at a certain level in your body at 20 doesn't mean you'll want it there at 50

The problem your having IMHO is that you don't seem to really understand evolution. Evolution or natural selection has little to do with aging. If you believe in evolution then you understand we aren't "programmed to age." This kind of thinking is more consistent with creationism.

In evolutionary theory organisms that produce offspring that can make again are 'selected' and those genes are passed down. But with human beings they died so often because of natural causes, accidents, predators etc there was no actual selection of alot of 'good' aging genes.

So what happens when humans age is akin to say a car falling apart. If you don't take it in for regular maintence it dies really fast but even with maintence it wears out eventually. (Interestingly this is not true for all animals - some animals (lobsters) are actually immune to aging - they have cells that can repair and keep on replicating perfectly forever).

The human body has some limited capacity to repair damage causes by well living.. But after a while this is overwhelmed by celluar damage you can't fix - and thus you age.

Things like gray hair, menopause, brittle bones etc are all just symptoms of the body breaking down. In light of this there is much to recommend a pro-active course that tries to fix some of the problems that the body is having..

Gray hair is a great example.. Gray hair has recently been discovered to spring from the bodies inability to make enough of an enzyme called catalase which breaks down hydrogen peroxide in the hair shaft (and does a whole lot of other good things).

This isn't some evolutionary feature - its just people slowing starting to fall apart. There is hopes that people will be able to take a pill that could allow the body to make more catalase and fix the issue.

I won't have an issue taking this pill because I understand its not "god's plan" or 'nature making the way for the next generation" its just me falling apart.. I have no issue fixing that just like I have no issue taking my car to the dealership for a repair.

Pete

OldButGame
07-26-2010, 07:15 PM
The problem your having IMHO is that you don't seem to really understand evolution. Evolution or natural selection has little to do with aging. If you believe in evolution then you understand we aren't "programmed to age." This kind of thinking is more consistent with creationism.

In evolutionary theory organisms that produce offspring that can make again are 'selected' and those genes are passed down. But with human beings they died so often because of natural causes, accidents, predators etc there was no actual selection of alot of 'good' aging genes.

So what happens when humans age is akin to say a car falling apart. If you don't take it in for regular maintence it dies really fast but even with maintence it wears out eventually. (Interestingly this is not true for all animals - some animals (lobsters) are actually immune to aging - they have cells that can repair and keep on replicating perfectly forever).

The human body has some limited capacity to repair damage causes by well living.. But after a while this is overwhelmed by celluar damage you can't fix - and thus you age.

Things like gray hair, menopause, brittle bones etc are all just symptoms of the body breaking down. In light of this there is much to recommend a pro-active course that tries to fix some of the problems that the body is having..

Gray hair is a great example.. Gray hair has recently been discovered to spring from the bodies inability to make enough of an enzyme called catalase which breaks down hydrogen peroxide in the hair shaft (and does a whole lot of other good things).

This isn't some evolutionary feature - its just people slowing starting to fall apart. There is hopes that people will be able to take a pill that could allow the body to make more catalase and fix the issue.

I won't have an issue taking this pill because I understand its not "god's plan" or 'nature making the way for the next generation" its just me falling apart.. I have no issue fixing that just like I have no issue taking my car to the dealership for a repair.

Pete
^^^ I see THIS as an enlightened approach/mindset.http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

Ramjet
08-06-2010, 07:07 AM
Had both procedures on the right knee about 3 years back. Knee is generally good, however it swells up after playing. Spoke to two or three Orthopedic surgeons; generally they recommend i control the swelling with ice and advil or aleve. So i take 2 ibuprofen before playing, and often 2 before going to bed that night; and of course ice it a lot.
Agree with most posters that this needs to be last resort after appropriate strength & FLEXIBILITY regimes

Fedace
08-06-2010, 08:04 AM
Had both procedures on the right knee about 3 years back. Knee is generally good, however it swells up after playing. Spoke to two or three Orthopedic surgeons; generally they recommend i control the swelling with ice and advil or aleve. So i take 2 ibuprofen before playing, and often 2 before going to bed that night; and of course ice it a lot.
Agree with most posters that this needs to be last resort after appropriate strength & FLEXIBILITY regimes

does he recommend a light weight workout regimen ? even for people with knee injuries.?? to strengthen the ligaments and so on ??

escii_35
08-06-2010, 09:23 AM
I start popping Day 6 out of 14 or on the 4th day in a row.

5 out of 14 (singles hard courts) is my happy place but sometimes the weather is just too nice.

Funny part is, even though I've mangled the knee twice it only bugs me during cold and damp weather. (TBF,ACL/MCL)

JT_2eighty
08-06-2010, 09:03 PM
I dont mix business with pleasure, i take my tennis seriously.

I only smoke during downtime.

Agreed. I realize the thread has moved pass this particular topic, but would add anyone who does this who is also serious about their tennis, like myself as well, would be using some sort of waterpiece, to answer the person asking of method used.

It does work wonders for post-match aches. Natural, herbal remedy. :mrgreen:

OldButGame
08-08-2010, 06:31 PM
does he recommend a light weight workout regimen ? even for people with knee injuries.?? to strengthen the ligaments and so on ??
Fed,.....
In the 80's i had sprained a knee, & done damage to an ACL. In Physical therapy they had me doing 'leg extensions' as part of the 'rehab'. i had even read material suggesting the same back THEN. I recently reinjured the same ACL,......and returned to physical therapy again. Different place and therapist,....very Good therapist i greatly respect w/ a PHD in Physical therapy. She had STRONGLY advised NOT doing leg extensions,....especially with a history of ACL damage as this puts a very unfavorable torque on the joint and ACL. This is apparently a departure and advancement from older approaches. However there ARE very beneficial exercises to reinforce and support the knee and its ligaments, which is much of the approach physical therapy uses. (Just that leg extensions' are 'avoided'). These exercises can be found at length online and on youtube videos. I found the application of these techniques and modalities extremely beneficial in my recovery and return to play.:)http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/icons/icon14.gif