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tacoben
07-09-2010, 07:26 AM
As I ride the commuter train daily on my way to work, I have noticed a "new fad" among the young hipster crowd riding these fixed geared bicycles....even more so, since I live in a "college town". Some of the bikes looks really impressive, after having been resurrected from the scrap yard. Anyone own one? Are they hard to ride? Please post pictures. Thanks.

TheJRK
07-09-2010, 07:38 AM
No they are not hard to ride... just find a "middle of the road" gearing and you'll be all set.

As for pics...

http://www.fyxomatosis.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86:fyxomatosis-version-30&catid=55:bicycles&Itemid=93

trinidadray
07-09-2010, 07:47 AM
I used a Fixed gear when I commuted for years in East London and rode a singlespeed mountainbike. Biggest problem I now have is finding pants and shorts to fit my tree truck thighs...

ollinger
07-09-2010, 08:08 AM
They are a nostalgia thing based on the "Roadster" bikes of the 1950s, only make sense if you life in a very flat region (and not all that much sense there either.)

albino smurf
07-09-2010, 08:31 AM
People are butchering classic bikes to make these. Tragic IMO.

surfsb
07-09-2010, 08:44 AM
I can see the advantage in flat areas like the messengers who use them in NYC but the fad is absurd. Nothing but kids in pants too small for them on bikes that are too big. It's hilly where I live yet theres tons of kids on fixed gear bikes struggling to make it, then bursting down these hills skidding out of control.

jerriy
07-09-2010, 09:09 AM
Fixed gear bicycles are still popular in Europe (they never really went completely out of fashion, it's just that the bike makers hate them since they don't make too much money off of them (cuz of the bikes' robustness and durability and not having any wires and other delicate parts that fall-off or wear and tear)

albino smurf
07-09-2010, 09:42 AM
You keep telling yourself that. I've got bikes older than you that nothing has ever fallen off of.

Dave M
07-09-2010, 10:14 AM
You keep telling yourself that. I've got bikes older than you that nothing has ever fallen off of.

To be fair Smurf, upselling and parts is a big pat of what the companies rely on for extra profit.I am not sure it's why they stopped selling them, I always thought it was the fact you couldn't freewheel and I kept falling off mine was enough to make me not buy on again, but they were pretty indestructable!(even if I was not!):shock:

120mphBodyServe
07-09-2010, 11:07 AM
They're for bike messengers/couriers only.
Guys who are a lot fitter than you or I and can pedal all day up hilly streets all day with the same gear.
And a lot of these guys have a background in track cycling.

trinidadray
07-09-2010, 12:11 PM
I found after a winter using my Fixed gear when I did get back on a geared road bike my fitness and spinning was far better and efficient. In the UK plenty of roadies use them for winter training..

Living in a hilly area isnt a massive problem as you learn to use a more effective candence. I had a friend in London that is a courier he will ride like 40-50miles a day on a Fixed, 15 miles is just getting to and from work :)..

I agree there is a Mystic as such around them but ride one for a week and you wont even think about it..

christo
07-11-2010, 07:42 AM
I rode a 3 speed Sturmey Archer to high school in Australia about 7-8 miles each way and much preferred that to the 15 speed bike I have now. Would love to have that setup again. I credit those bike rides to the fitness I still have at the ripe old age of 54

AmericanTemplar
07-11-2010, 09:49 AM
I have two fixed geared bicycles (one track, one commuter/utility) in hilly SF & I don't find them to be that much harder to ride than my road or MTB. I think that they're a good way to get into cycling--low maintenance & they teach you a lot of good habits like spinning rather than mashing or coasting, pedaling through turns & rough terrain & good handling skills. You don't need to butcher a classic--there are plenty of bicycles that are made to be fixed on the market. I think that the best entry level deal is this one: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott.htm I've owned one of these at one point & it's still going strong years later with it's current owner. For those of you who don't know about bikes direct they sell rebadged versions of better known brand names for about half the price with free shipping & no tax. Ideally you'd know a bit about bike mechanics before buying a bike from here though.

albino smurf
07-12-2010, 09:41 AM
Great link. That shop has the best prices I've seen. How much work is required once you've received the bike and what do you mean by rebadged?

TheJRK
07-12-2010, 10:44 AM
Before you go buying from BD, do a little searching and get multiple opinions from people who have dealt with that site before. Try http://www.bikeforums.net/ or another such site to see what people say.

I'm not trying to knock-it since I've never ordered from BD, but it does have a reputation among the cycling community. If a deal is too good to be true...

BobFL
07-12-2010, 11:08 AM
BD is perfectly OK. It is just a pure hate from "big names" in the industry because they have really hard time to explain and justify super high markups they incorporate in their prices.

BD bought the rights to use some of the reputable names like Motobecane. This Motobecanse has nothing to do with the old Motobecane but that is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, Sram XX is still Sram XX. Trek will charge 2 times for for the same satup.

AV1
07-12-2010, 02:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2885aR6o6s

AmericanTemplar
07-12-2010, 02:34 PM
I've bought 2 bikes from BD & I've had plenty of friends buy from them as well. Very little assembly is required, but I think that it's good to know a bit about bikes or at least have a friend who knows about bikes if you're going to buy one, since you won't be getting the service that you would be getting from a shop.

The "reputation" that it has from the "cycling community" is mixed & most of the negative reputation is perpetuated by bike shops who don't like the tough competition & are bitter, understandably, about having to service bikes & sometimes assemble bikes that were bought elsewhere for a price with which they can't compete. I think that you will find that very few people who have owned one of their bikes will have anything bad to say about BD. However, I will stress again, that if you are looking to buy your first bike, I would buy from a shop so that you will have the bike professionally assembled & you have someplace to go to ask questions or get service if you need it.

What I meant when I said that they're rebadged, is that the Kilo TT, for example, is the same frame as the KHS Track bike. Most bike frames are outsourced to Asia like everything else now, which means that Bianchi, for example, is just a marketing company rather than a manufacturer. What BD does is they buy old brand names of companies that have gone under (Motobecane, Mercier, Dawes, etc) & they brand frames that are made in the same factories with the same specs as better known brands with these brand names.

albino smurf
07-12-2010, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the follow up and the advice. I've been in the market for a good road bike for a while now, but the prices are prohibitive. BD seems to have nipped that for me. Much appreciated.

AmericanTemplar
07-12-2010, 05:01 PM
Glad that I could help! Let me know what you're looking to spend & maybe I could help you find the best option for your money. Also, remember to consider that you are going to have to buy pedals & lights if you plan to ride at night.

albino smurf
07-13-2010, 07:39 AM
I'm going to dig in and evaluate what the best componentry is bang for the buck. I used to race a bit in the 80s and regret selling my beautiful primarily Campy Tommasso. Right now I'm looking at this one:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/galaxy_al_xi.htm

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 08:03 AM
I would try to stick with 105 as a minimum, but if you're looking to spend $500 then that doesn't look possible. Consider Craig's List as well if you don't mind going used. My roadbike is a Colnago with full campy record/chorus. I bought it for $2000 in almost new condition & it would have gone for over twice as much if I were to have bought it from a shop.

Here's a Tommasso in Dallas for $800:

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/bik/1831994537.html

Before my Colnago I had a late 90's Serotta with full record that I bought for $700 on ****. I think that going used might get you more for what you're trying to spend than buying through BD.

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 08:13 AM
I'm not sure what your size is, but here's a Serotta similar to what I had for $450:

http://nh.craigslist.org/bik/1838503110.html

Also, in case you're wondering--this is how I'm searching:

http://bike.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/bike.cgi?cat=bik&itm=serotta&fil=&state=&ps=&pe=&ys=&ye=&submit=+GO+

Kevin T
07-13-2010, 08:32 AM
Hey Templar,

Any recs (at bikesdirect or otherwise) for a 6'3", 225# guy looking to buy a bike for commuting to work, ~35 mile round trip on a flat, paved bike trail. No interest in racing, just commuting to work and weekend rides. Thanks so much!

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 08:49 AM
Hey Templar,

Any recs (at bikesdirect or otherwise) for a 6'3", 225# guy looking to buy a bike for commuting to work, ~35 mile round trip on a flat, paved bike trail. No interest in racing, just commuting to work and weekend rides. Thanks so much!

Yeah, I think that this would be fun & be good for what you're doing, assuming that you don't have anything against the idea of riding fixed:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_s3x.htm


3 speed internally geared fixed hub means you have gearing options with the only drivetrain maintenance being keeping the chain oiled. The frame also has provisions for fenders & racks if you decide that you want that. Honestly I don't know a whole lot about those hubs though, so it might be worth looking into. Sizewise, I'd go for a 60cm in that model if you have average proportions. Otherwise there's a geometry chart at the bottom.

TheJRK
07-13-2010, 09:43 AM
With your size and weight (and since you are talking about using it to commute) I'd look into a getting a hybrid. More comfortable to ride and you can put all kinds of crap on it.

Kevin T
07-13-2010, 10:07 AM
Yeah, I think that this would be fun & be good for what you're doing, assuming that you don't have anything against the idea of riding fixed:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_s3x.htm


3 speed internally geared fixed hub means you have gearing options with the only drivetrain maintenance being keeping the chain oiled. The frame also has provisions for fenders & racks if you decide that you want that. Honestly I don't know a whole lot about those hubs though, so it might be worth looking into. Sizewise, I'd go for a 60cm in that model if you have average proportions. Otherwise there's a geometry chart at the bottom.

Thanks! I'm in decent shape overall but not in great bike shape. Will I be okay with the infrequent hills I'll encounter? Sorry but I haven't been on a single speed/fixed gear bike since grammar school, so the idea is a little intimidating. :)

Kevin T
07-13-2010, 10:10 AM
With your size and weight (and since you are talking about using it to commute) I'd look into a getting a hybrid. More comfortable to ride and you can put all kinds of crap on it.

Thanks for the response, JRK. I really won't need to put anything on it. I work in khakis and polo shirts/button-ups and buy lunch downtown. I would probably just pop my work clothes into a small backpack. I have thought about hybrids. I actually test-rode a Raleigh Clubman and actually prefered it to the aluminum Cannodales and Specialized bikes I was looking at. The steel frames are so much more forgiving/comfy.

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 10:42 AM
Well, I think that initially riding 30 miles on any bike will take some getting used to. People make a bigger deal about riding fixed than it is, even though there are plenty of people who ride them who aren't particularly fit. I've ridden centuries fixed several times (SF->Healdsburg) & I don't find it to be much harder than it is on my road bike. Hybrids are good for people who don't ride regularly & want to be in a position that doesn't take much getting used to, but I wouldn't want to be riding one 30 miles/day--it will slow you down & the lack of available hand positions will get uncomfortable.

Also, I don't have any evidence to back this up other than personal experience, but I think that the kind of resistance pedaling that you use to control your speed with a fixed drive train strengthens ones' explosiveness off of the split step on the court.

Kevin T
07-13-2010, 10:46 AM
Well, I think that initially riding 30 miles on any bike will take some getting used to. People make a bigger deal about riding fixed than it is, even though there are plenty of people who ride them who aren't particularly fit. I've ridden centuries fixed several times (SF->Healdsburg) & I don't find it to be much harder than it is on my road bike. Hybrids are good for people who don't ride regularly & want to be in a position that doesn't take much getting used to, but I wouldn't want to be riding one 30 miles/day--it will slow you down & the lack of available hand positions will get uncomfortable.

Thanks again! I'm intrigued by the simplicity of fixed gear bikes and really appreciate your comments. Healdsburg!!....Racer 5 IPA at the Bear Republic Brewery....yumm!!!

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 11:15 AM
Yep, that's where I was born & bread & it's a nice place to go to get away from city life! It's a paradise for a drinker & a cyclist; unfortunately there aren't as many good tennis players there as I would like.

Power Player
07-13-2010, 11:50 AM
Fixies are not a new trend, but they are getting more and more popular. I personally like 1 gear because I have bent my derailluers enough on my MTB to be over it. That being said, you need those gears when you ride hills and mountains.

When I am on the street I use my custom BMX for about everything. It is small, fits in my car and gives you a better workout to ride. For a lot of commuting, a fixie makes a lot of sense, but the super trendy looking ones with highlighter colors are pretty lame and played out at this point.

As for Bikes Direct, they sell cheap bikes but I personally think the frame is super important. The Frames you get are decent, but not top of the line (won't take the abuse I like to give frames). Also the components they adverstise do not always come with the order. So just be careful, it seems like 50% love and the other hate BD. I personally would rather buy a high quality frame like a Santa Cruz and custom build my next MTB because that is the way to do it right. Also, a lot of people see dual suspension and automatically think it is better then a hardtail, but it really is overkill unless you are downhilling a lot or live in mountains.

FastFreddy
07-13-2010, 12:08 PM
I never understood the reason why roadies would ride fixed in the winter? Why would you want to ride a bike with one gear and no brakes sounds like a crash waiting to happen. I haven't read any science to back up this sort of training. You pedal circles and it comes down to watts to weight ratio, LT and vo2max. Unless you race track and race on a fixed gear I see no reason to train on one.

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 12:16 PM
I agree with you on brightly colored clown bikes. Stay away from those if you want to be taken seriously.

As far as the quality of BD's frames--they're not any better or worse than what most of the big names are selling--but like those big names they've got cheaper entry level bikes & more expensive performance models. The only difference is you're not paying for marketing or funding any racing teams. Custom is a whole 'nother story. Of course BD's frames can't compete with what is being made by custom builders or smaller boutique framebuilding companies in quality.

Also, to clarify what you said about the components being advertised vs. what you get--there are instances where they will state that you will get one of two different components, but I've never heard of anyone getting something that wasn't listed on their site & I also have dealt with their customer service & it is just fine if you don't mind the fact that you can only correspond with them through e-mail.

I also agree with you on full suspension vs. hardtail. Personally, I prefer HT, but that's a whole different discussion.

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 12:27 PM
I never understood the reason why roadies would ride fixed in the winter? Why would you want to ride a bike with one gear and no brakes sounds like a crash waiting to happen. I haven't read any science to back up this sort of training. You pedal circles and it comes down to watts to weight ratio, LT and vo2max. Unless you race track and race on a fixed gear I see no reason to train on one.

Classic anti-FG ignorance. For one, most roadies who ride fixed to train generally use brakes. Second, one of my bikes is a real track bike without brakes that I ride on the road & I have had more close calls on my road bike. If you're strong enough, skilled enough & have a low enough gear ratio, you can ride a brakeless track bike on the street as safely as any other bike. I do have a problem with all of the scrawny hipsters who instantly go brakeless because they want to look cool, in the same way as I think it's foolish to ski down black diamonds before one is has mastered blue squares. Third, I bet that if you went down a hill on my FG you would be bouncing all over the saddle due to a lack of a smooth cadence. The idea behind training fixed is that it helps riders get used to riding at a higher cadence & it smooths out ones pedal strokes. There is plenty of evidence to support the fact that spinning is both more energy efficient & better on ones body than mashing.

FastFreddy
07-13-2010, 01:18 PM
Classic anti-FG ignorance. For one, most roadies who ride fixed to train generally use brakes. Second, one of my bikes is a real track bike without brakes that I ride on the road & I have had more close calls on my road bike. If you're strong enough, skilled enough & have a low enough gear ratio, you can ride a brakeless track bike on the street as safely as any other bike. I do have a problem with all of the scrawny hipsters who instantly go brakeless because they want to look cool, in the same way as I think it's foolish to ski down black diamonds before one is has mastered blue squares. Third, I bet that if you went down a hill on my FG you would be bouncing all over the saddle due to a lack of a smooth cadence. The idea behind training fixed is that it helps riders get used to riding at a higher cadence & it smooths out ones pedal strokes. There is plenty of evidence to support the fact that spinning is both more energy efficient & better on ones body than mashing.

Smooth cadence sounds like you read that in a cycling book, pedal strokes will always have dead spots. Last time I checked everyone pedals in circles not squares. Like Lance high rpm bs it comes down to who can produce the most watts per kilo body weight. Just like the rotor q chainrings and biopace back in the day all marketing crap. Some people like Jan rode at 80 rpm some 90 and Lance 100-110 sewing machine crap he said he learned from big mig yeah right more like EPO. Most guys I raced with now do the cyclocross bs in the spring and got rid of the fixed gear bike. The girl who cuts my hair rides a fix and doesn't even have a rode bike I guess it goes well with her ink. Some d-bags bring their tt or cyclocross bike on our team 53 mile Saturday training ride look at me!!

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 01:34 PM
No use in arguing with someone whose opinion is based on irrational hatred rather than real world experience. As if there are any fewer d-bags into road riding than fixed, haha. The cliche who cuts your hair (why is a man going to a hair dresser anyway?) riding fixed adds tons of weight to your argument--I should probably quit road riding since my boring dentist rides a cervelo on charity rides.

Power Player
07-13-2010, 02:53 PM
If everybody just rode BMX, it would be a lot cooler;)

Ronaldo
07-13-2010, 03:04 PM
You can just convert a cheap bike from the 80s or 90s to fixed gear just to get the experience.

OrangeOne
07-13-2010, 03:12 PM
Classic anti-FG ignorance. For one, most roadies who ride fixed to train generally use brakes. Second, one of my bikes is a real track bike without brakes that I ride on the road & I have had more close calls on my road bike. If you're strong enough, skilled enough & have a low enough gear ratio, you can ride a brakeless track bike on the street as safely as any other bike. I do have a problem with all of the scrawny hipsters who instantly go brakeless because they want to look cool, in the same way as I think it's foolish to ski down black diamonds before one is has mastered blue squares. Third, I bet that if you went down a hill on my FG you would be bouncing all over the saddle due to a lack of a smooth cadence. The idea behind training fixed is that it helps riders get used to riding at a higher cadence & it smooths out ones pedal strokes. There is plenty of evidence to support the fact that spinning is both more energy efficient & better on ones body than mashing.

Interesting post. While you may not, I think it's important to note that 99% of the population will have more close-calls, and more crashes, on a FG, it's just a more complex and demanding machine. Nonetheless, thanks for posting - posts like this & yours in this thread make me wish TW had a rating system.

Smooth cadence sounds like you read that in a cycling book, pedal strokes will always have dead spots. Last time I checked everyone pedals in circles not squares. Like Lance high rpm bs it comes down to who can produce the most watts per kilo body weight. Just like the rotor q chainrings and biopace back in the day all marketing crap. Some people like Jan rode at 80 rpm some 90 and Lance 100-110 sewing machine crap he said he learned from big mig yeah right more like EPO. Most guys I raced with now do the cyclocross bs in the spring and got rid of the fixed gear bike. The girl who cuts my hair rides a fix and doesn't even have a rode bike I guess it goes well with her ink. Some d-bags bring their tt or cyclocross bike on our team 53 mile Saturday training ride look at me!!

^^ Posts like this also make me wish TW had a rating system, for entirely different reasons.

---

My reply to the thread? My knees would never cope with 1 gear. The best single-speed I ever rode (and I haven't ridden many) was a 29 inch MTB, single-speed with no suspension, was a blast to ride and my knees coped better than I thought they would.

That said, I just couldn't do the single-speed thing, I've had two knee ops and I'm addicted to high-cadence - have been ever since recovering, and it's helped me ride longer distances with relative ease. Makes a fair bit of physiological sense...

I am jealous of the single-speed riders from a maintenance perspective :D

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 03:41 PM
Interesting post. While you may not, I think it's important to note that 99% of the population will have more close-calls, and more crashes, on a FG, it's just a more complex and demanding machine. Nonetheless, thanks for posting - posts like this & yours in this thread make me wish TW had a rating system.

Thanks for the kind words!

While I entirely agree with you where riding brakeless is concerned, I think that a fixed bike equipped with a front brake can be ridden safely by most of the population, but there will be a learning curve. I used to always try to coast when I would hop on one of my fixed bikes after having ridden my road bike, which fortunately never caused me to crash, but I came close. Now I never have that problem. Anyway, it will take some time to get comfortable, but I think that just about everyone is capable of riding fixed if they have a brake & the right gear ratio. I suggest a gear ratio in the high 60's, which is generally lower than what off the peg bikes come with stock.

Fixed bikes probably aren't good for people with knee problems, particularly if your gear ratio is too high. Most people's tendency is to ride in too high of a gear, which can cause problems just as easily on a multi-geared bike. For those who don't have knee problems now, a FG geared correctly will help you avoid them in the future (if cycling is in your future, that is).

SS 29ers are always geared really low--that's why I'm sure that it was OK on your knees. I've never tried them, but a lot of my friends swear by them. I've got a geared 29er & I love it!

FastFreddy
07-13-2010, 04:24 PM
No use in arguing with someone whose opinion is based on irrational hatred rather than real world experience. As if there are any fewer d-bags into road riding than fixed, haha. The cliche who cuts your hair (why is a man going to a hair dresser anyway?) riding fixed adds tons of weight to your argument--I should probably quit road riding since my boring dentist rides a cervelo on charity rides.

Fixed gear bikes are not just for bike messengers, track riders and I think I am a PRO but race cat 3 d-bag. Everyone can buy one like the girl who cuts my hair beach bike and fixed gear but no rode bike. Yes I get my haircut at a salon. She is smoking hot half Mexican 1/4 German, 1/4 Italian 5'2 102lbs D cup implants (low cut top) and 4-5 inch heels and spandex pants(cameltoe and wedgie) need I say more. Your the one living in SF wearing lycra. PS: I can put out 378 watts for 30 mins at 183hr and 300 watts for 60 mins. I ride 253 watts everyday for 60-99 mins.

OrangeOne
07-13-2010, 04:41 PM
Fixed gear bikes are not just for bike messengers, track riders and I think I am a PRO but race cat 3 d-bag.

Sentence sense not make much doesn't.

Everyone can buy one like the girl who cuts my hair beach bike and fixed gear but no rode bike.


That's twice you've written 'rode' bike. Once can be a slip, twice...

Yes I get my haircut at a salon. She is smoking hot half Mexican 1/4 German, 1/4 Italian 5'2 102lbs D cup implants (low cut top) and 4-5 inch heels and spandex pants(cameltoe and wedgie) need I say more.

No, you've just said more than enough about yourself.

Your the one living in SF wearing lycra. PS: I can put out 378 watts for 30 mins at 183hr and 300 watts for 60 mins. I ride 253 watts everyday for 60-99 mins.

As much as I love my Polar, I wasn't aware that cycling was actually more fun if it's paint-by-numbers. Maybe I'll stop riding places I like and target wattages, I mean, I quite like the number 7, probably more fun than the descent down the local mountains. Some days I like the number 3, quite likely more enjoyable than a ride with a mate.

As for: I ride '253 watts' everyday for 60-99 minutes? That's officially the weirdest description of being a cyclist I've heard in over a decade of being involved in the sport. Why not 254 watts? Why 99 minutes? To think in this thread you accused another poster of saying something "sounds like you read that in a cycling book". The irony.

OrangeOne
07-13-2010, 04:54 PM
Thanks for the kind words!

While I entirely agree with you where riding brakeless is concerned, I think that a fixed bike equipped with a front brake can be ridden safely by most of the population, but there will be a learning curve. I used to always try to coast when I would hop on one of my fixed bikes after having ridden my road bike, which fortunately never caused me to crash, but I came close. Now I never have that problem. Anyway, it will take some time to get comfortable, but I think that just about everyone is capable of riding fixed if they have a brake & the right gear ratio. I suggest a gear ratio in the high 60's, which is generally lower than what off the peg bikes come with stock.

Agreed, agreed. Especially on having brakes. For road use, I think it's just one of those 'substance is more important than style' issues, not to mention legalities. Also, we cyclists have enough of an unjustified bad reputation (in Australia at least, geez I miss Ireland*) that I really wish people would do whatever it takes to make sure we're not at fault in crashes / incidents with cars.

Fixed bikes probably aren't good for people with knee problems, particularly if your gear ratio is too high. Most people's tendency is to ride in too high of a gear, which can cause problems just as easily on a multi-geared bike. For those who don't have knee problems now, a FG geared correctly will help you avoid them in the future (if cycling is in your future, that is).

Hmm, I wonder. I know you're thinking good technique will fix some problems, I wonder if it still won't accelerate some people towards such problems? Still agree with the sentiment though. I remember all those years ago when I first bought a road bike (and rode it to the local store), and they saw me ride up and pointed out the very fact you mention of riding in too high a gear - it's a habit we pick up as kids on BMXs etc.

Spin classes are another way to work on technique, speaking as a somewhat biased spin instructor that is :). It's occasionally nice to be 'going nowhere' and have little else to think about but technique, and have infinitely variable resistance to work with to make it feel just ride.

SS 29ers are always geared really low--that's why I'm sure that it was OK on your knees. I've never tried them, but a lot of my friends swear by them. I've got a geared 29er & I love it!

Fair call! If I ever start regularly trail-riding again, I think a geared 29er would be the bike for me. That said, I wish they were more common, as there's some really nice 26" 'all-mountain' bikes out there thesedays that would seem to be a great all purpose fun machine. Of course, if I do either of those, then I can build the current hardtail into a commuter....

:D It's been too long since I had time to focus on bikes and riding, though I guess I do have time now. Tempting....

Power Player
07-13-2010, 07:28 PM
I ride a 26" Dirt Jump bike that is great on trails. You just have to raise the seat a little bit, and then slam it when it's time to take drops and get air. I like it because I know when I land, the bike will be intact and ready for the next big drop.

I also can commute with it pretty easily.

AmericanTemplar
07-13-2010, 07:59 PM
Agreed, agreed. Especially on having brakes. For road use, I think it's just one of those 'substance is more important than style' issues, not to mention legalities. Also, we cyclists have enough of an unjustified bad reputation (in Australia at least, geez I miss Ireland*) that I really wish people would do whatever it takes to make sure we're not at fault in crashes / incidents with cars.

Well, I think that there are some cyclists who ride poorly & are inconsiderate of others (even other cyclists), just as there are some motorists who think that getting wherever they need to go as quickly as possible is more important than being respectful of everyone else on the road. Cars have their place in the world, but they are overused & I can say with confidence that most people's lives would be much better if they were to reserve cars for occasions where they're absolutely necessary. I'm not stuck in a car or on a bus, ****ed off during my commute--being a cyclists means that that's my favorite part of the day!



Hmm, I wonder. I know you're thinking good technique will fix some problems, I wonder if it still won't accelerate some people towards such problems? Still agree with the sentiment though. I remember all those years ago when I first bought a road bike (and rode it to the local store), and they saw me ride up and pointed out the very fact you mention of riding in too high a gear - it's a habit we pick up as kids on BMXs etc.

Spin classes are another way to work on technique, speaking as a somewhat biased spin instructor that is :). It's occasionally nice to be 'going nowhere' and have little else to think about but technique, and have infinitely variable resistance to work with to make it feel just ride.

Yes, I agree the spin classes are another good option for improving ones cadence although I've never done one.

Fair call! If I ever start regularly trail-riding again, I think a geared 29er would be the bike for me. That said, I wish they were more common, as there's some really nice 26" 'all-mountain' bikes out there thesedays that would seem to be a great all purpose fun machine. Of course, if I do either of those, then I can build the current hardtail into a commuter....

:D It's been too long since I had time to focus on bikes and riding, though I guess I do have time now. Tempting....

Well, you're in luck, as geared 29ers are becoming more & more common. Mine actually came from BD. It's this one, but I've upgraded the wheels to Shimano XT:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom29pro_SL.htm

FastFreddy
07-14-2010, 07:27 AM
Sentence sense not make much doesn't.



That's twice you've written 'rode' bike. Once can be a slip, twice...



No, you've just said more than enough about yourself.



As much as I love my Polar, I wasn't aware that cycling was actually more fun if it's paint-by-numbers. Maybe I'll stop riding places I like and target wattages, I mean, I quite like the number 7, probably more fun than the descent down the local mountains. Some days I like the number 3, quite likely more enjoyable than a ride with a mate.

As for: I ride '253 watts' everyday for 60-99 minutes? That's officially the weirdest description of being a cyclist I've heard in over a decade of being involved in the sport. Why not 254 watts? Why 99 minutes? To think in this thread you accused another poster of saying something "sounds like you read that in a cycling book". The irony.

Your the same person pointing out mistakes on email at work right. I found over the years of training 253 watts is the most I can do for up to 99 mins everyday and recover for the next day. I do only 60 mins at lunch time. The bike will only let you program up to 99 mins. I just didn't get that number out of thin air. Wow a decade I owned 7 road bikes over my 25 years of riding and racing. Plus some bmx racing, dirt jumping, freestyle ie quarter pipe, half pipe and also owned 3 dirt bikes YZ 125, RM 250 and a CR500. Anyone who is into hard training and racing and has the money(not cheap 3k) will use a SRM to train and race to improve power. PS: I got my Spin cert back in 1995.

AmericanTemplar
07-14-2010, 07:39 AM
So do you ride for pleasure as well, or just for wattage?

Kevin T
07-14-2010, 07:44 AM
So do you ride for pleasure as well, or just for wattage?

He has a side business powering a city block. :)

By the way Templar, what do you think about this one:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_special_chrome.htm

I kind of like the "no label"/plain look and it looks fairly similar to the model you linked. Also, if I decided to go geared, probably Tiagra level, what frame would you suggest? Thanks so much! It's nice to have someone in the know when considering $$ purchases.

albino smurf
07-14-2010, 07:47 AM
electrifying posts

AmericanTemplar
07-14-2010, 07:58 AM
Yeah, I think that the unbadged Kilo is an excellent choice! If you do go that route, I'd suggest going to a bike shop & having them change the cog to a 17t & buy a new lockring (Durace is like $15 & Surly cog is around $25). The lockrings that come with the Kilo's are super soft & can strip the hub. Also, something to keep in mind is that you are going to need to buy pedals (pedals that come with bikes are usually just for test riding). I suggest the MKS Sylvans with MKS clips & whatever strap you fancy. Personally I like the double straps, but they cost more & I like the extra security, since I'm riding brakeless.

One last thing: you are going to want to take the wheels in to a bike shop to get them tensioned & trued.

As far as going geared--I think that you can get more bang for your buck on Craig's List or **** buying used. Where in CA are you? I might be able to help you locate some good options if you decide that interests you.

Kevin T
07-14-2010, 08:22 AM
Yeah, I think that the unbadged Kilo is an excellent choice! If you do go that route, I'd suggest going to a bike shop & having them change the cog to a 17t & buy a new lockring (Durace is like $15 & Surly cog is around $25). The lockrings that come with the Kilo's are super soft & can strip the hub. Also, something to keep in mind is that you are going to need to buy pedals (pedals that come with bikes are usually just for test riding). I suggest the MKS Sylvans with MKS clips & whatever strap you fancy. Personally I like the double straps, but they cost more & I like the extra security, since I'm riding brakeless.

One last thing: you are going to want to take the wheels in to a bike shop to get them tensioned & trued.

As far as going geared--I think that you can get more bang for your buck on Craig's List or **** buying used. Where in CA are you? I might be able to help you locate some good options if you decide that interests you.

Sacto area for much of the summer (what a great time to be in Sacto-100 degrees day in and day out :)), then back to San Diego in the fall. Thanks!

Power Player
07-14-2010, 10:17 AM
Thats a sweet little chrome fixie. I'd keep the brakes off and put platform pedals on it personally. Then you have a bike that will be perfect for everyday commuting as long as you know what you are doing.

I am totally anti clips. Unless you race all the time, I don't see the need. I am more into airing out and doing technical singletracks. Platforms really get your technique dialed and you will be able to bail a lot easier. Plus you can wear whatever shoes you want instead of riding specific ones.

OrangeOne
07-14-2010, 10:54 AM
Your the same person pointing out mistakes on email at work right.

The somewhat beautiful irony. Oh well.

found over the years of training 253 watts is the most I can do for up to 99 mins everyday and recover for the next day. I do only 60 mins at lunch time. The bike will only let you program up to 99 mins. I just didn't get that number out of thin air.

Kinda glad it's not 9 mins. Lucky it's not 999 mins.

Wow a decade I owned 7 road bikes over my 25 years of riding and racing. Plus some bmx racing, dirt jumping, freestyle ie quarter pipe, half pipe and also owned 3 dirt bikes YZ 125, RM 250 and a CR500.


Does that mean you win? Or is this another numbers contest? The other week I was riding an 1100, and I've been meaning to borrow my mate's 1400. But wait, you've got a mate with a Rocket III? Damn.

Anyone who is into hard training and racing and has the money(not cheap 3k) will use a SRM to train and race to improve power.

I've known a lot of cyclists in my time, and i've known a few who have owned SRMs.

PS: I got my Spin cert back in 1995.

Ok.

AmericanTemplar
07-14-2010, 11:37 AM
Thats a sweet little chrome fixie. I'd keep the brakes off and put platform pedals on it personally. Then you have a bike that will be perfect for everyday commuting as long as you know what you are doing.

I am totally anti clips. Unless you race all the time, I don't see the need. I am more into airing out and doing technical singletracks. Platforms really get your technique dialed and you will be able to bail a lot easier. Plus you can wear whatever shoes you want instead of riding specific ones.

Sorry dude, that sounds like really bad advice. A beginner should not be riding brakeless & having no foot retention while riding fixed is an accident waiting to happen.

Power Player
07-14-2010, 12:26 PM
Well maybe a front brake then, but clipless is not for beginners anyway. In fact clipless makes zero sense for a commuter bike. I don't know anyone who rides clipless on a fixed bike or uses brakes. Platform pedals are so much better and common on fixes. Why should a beginner ride around with their feet locked into a pedal? That makes zero sense at all.

I'd start with 1 brake just to have and then slowly learn how to slow down without using it at all.

And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.

AmericanTemplar
07-14-2010, 12:31 PM
Yeah, but judging by the fact that you ride BMX & a Dirt Jumper, I'm guessing that the people you know who ride fixed use them for tricks. Platform pedals are OK for circling around parking lots doing wheelies, but foot retention is smart for anyone who plans on really riding. Anyway, I wasn't suggesting going clipless (although that's a good option too if you're running a brake), I was suggesting cages with straps.

Power Player
07-14-2010, 01:02 PM
I don't know anyone who tricks on fixies, and if I did I would mock them. That just looks ridiculous to me...lol. I know a lot of people who ride fixies for commuting and also courier work and they all use platforms. I think what you are decribing would be ok, but if you can pedal well with platforms it only makes you better.

Kevin T
07-14-2010, 01:07 PM
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)

r2473
07-14-2010, 01:12 PM
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.

Don't foget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)

I think I'm in love :oops:

AmericanTemplar
07-14-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm kinda having a tough time figuring out if he's an absolute moron or the funniest dude on the board!?!

FastFreddy
07-14-2010, 03:38 PM
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.

Don't forget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)[/QUOTE]

Kev I will leave the surfing in SoCal poop to you. Don't hate since I dated a few models, raced my Mustang at E-Town and done a bunch of sports like tennis, ice hockey, ping pong, squash, bowling, weight lifting, marathons, cycling and traveled the world. Expert only on the sports listed above Kev is an expert on the rest. PS: don't know what you look like Asian? But if you were a Swede like me you too could get models.

Kevin T
07-14-2010, 04:04 PM
Don't forget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)

Kev I will leave the surfing in SoCal poop to you. Don't hate since I dated a few models, raced my Mustang at E-Town and done a bunch of sports like tennis, ice hockey, ping pong, squash, bowling, weight lifting, marathons, cycling and traveled the world. Expert only on the sports listed above Kev is an expert on the rest. PS: don't know what you look like Asian? But if you were a Swede like me you too could get models.[/QUOTE]

Not Asian. Dad was Native American (Pamunkey) and Mom is a Scot (first generation born in the States). For a tennis reference, most people say I look like Pat Rafter with the current short haircut (only better looking :) and 40# heavier). I married a Mexican chica, so I can say with confidence, go for the 1/4 Mexican 1/4 German 1/2 whatever hair dresser. A lot of hot sauce in that blood. I'm expert in football, basketball, tennis, squash, racquetball, trailrunning, skinny skiing, dwarf tossing, going to bullfights on acid and I throw a mean yo-yo. By the way, I've been away from Saint Diego all summer and miss that poop surf!

OrangeOne
07-14-2010, 05:05 PM
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.

*Light Bulb Moment* - I now remember some car posts from the other thread - I think from the Jo11y thread - it's all starting to make sense.

if you can pedal well with platforms it only makes you better.

Hmm, that doesn't make too much sense to me. I mean, it does if we're talking about technical ability on trails, but we're talking about pedaling, and I don't get it.

Ultimately, a lot of platform-only work will likely result in a very non-circular pedal-stroke, as it's simply difficult to use more than the 1-5 o'clock phase of the stroke at any time, and fairly impossible to use the 'opposite half' of the stroke at all.

I'm seeing (in the long term) over-developed Quads, underdeveloped Hamstrings and potentially some imbalance injuries.

Happy to hear your thoughts on this....

FastFreddy
07-14-2010, 07:15 PM
Kev I will leave the surfing in SoCal poop to you. Don't hate since I dated a few models, raced my Mustang at E-Town and done a bunch of sports like tennis, ice hockey, ping pong, squash, bowling, weight lifting, marathons, cycling and traveled the world. Expert only on the sports listed above Kev is an expert on the rest. PS: don't know what you look like Asian? But if you were a Swede like me you too could get models.

Not Asian. Dad was Native American (Pamunkey) and Mom is a Scot (first generation born in the States). For a tennis reference, most people say I look like Pat Rafter with the current short haircut (only better looking :) and 40# heavier). I married a Mexican chica, so I can say with confidence, go for the 1/4 Mexican 1/4 German 1/2 whatever hair dresser. A lot of hot sauce in that blood. I'm expert in football, basketball, tennis, squash, racquetball, trailrunning, skinny skiing, dwarf tossing, going to bullfights on acid and I throw a mean yo-yo. By the way, I've been away from Saint Diego all summer and miss that poop surf![/QUOTE]

I agree 1/2 Mexican 1/4 Italian 1/4 German she might be too hot blooded for me I don't want to see her mad. For 41 and 3 kids she looks dam good. With botox and fillers and fake boobs, lipo and chemical peels you can make a MILF. I did put both feet ankle high in the poop at Coronado beach last summer that was the only time. Dwaft tossing sounds fun!!!

AmericanTemplar
07-14-2010, 07:48 PM
This "MILF" frankenstein who shapes your soul patch, applies your highlights, & sprays your tan on is the one who rides fixed?

OrangeOne
07-14-2010, 08:07 PM
This "MILF" frankenstein who shapes your soul patch, applies your highlights, & sprays your tan on is the one who rides fixed?

I wonder watt her magic whattage number is?

If she locks it in to 183 watts, dialled up on the SRM cranks on the said fixie!

AmericanTemplar
07-14-2010, 08:24 PM
Maybe Freddy's hip hair salon is powered entirely by fixie.

"Pedal harder! The light is too dim to apply the local, organic, vegan palmade."

FastFreddy
07-15-2010, 06:40 AM
This "MILF" frankenstein who shapes your soul patch, applies your highlights, & sprays your tan on is the one who rides fixed?

My hitting buddy had a soul patch that thing is werid. A little Asian guy with a soul patch, guess that's the only facial hair he could grow? Sorry no highlights on my golden blonde hair. My women gets lowlights and highlights and she gets a spray tan, fake and bake or lays out in the sun. The MILF only cuts my hair. I wish she give me a special massage(happy ending). She has a fixed gear and a beach bike but no road bike. I am sure she has a skateboard too.

FastFreddy
07-15-2010, 06:41 AM
I wonder watt her magic whattage number is?

If she locks it in to 183 watts, dialled up on the SRM cranks on the said fixie!

She would not even crack 100 watts since she is only 102lbs.

FastFreddy
07-15-2010, 06:45 AM
Maybe Freddy's hip hair salon is powered entirely by fixie.

"Pedal harder! The light is too dim to apply the local, organic, vegan palmade."

That would be funny, more power my blow dryer is dying. One jail in AZ has the inmates pedal a bike to run their tv it's a good idea since most are over weight. This would save the taxpayers a few bucks.

Power Player
07-15-2010, 11:02 AM
Hmm, that doesn't make too much sense to me. I mean, it does if we're talking about technical ability on trails, but we're talking about pedaling, and I don't get it.

Ultimately, a lot of platform-only work will likely result in a very non-circular pedal-stroke, as it's simply difficult to use more than the 1-5 o'clock phase of the stroke at any time, and fairly impossible to use the 'opposite half' of the stroke at all.

I'm seeing (in the long term) over-developed Quads, underdeveloped Hamstrings and potentially some imbalance injuries.

Happy to hear your thoughts on this....

Well, I am not sure how everyone rides. There are different reasons for each person. If you are serious about road biking and spinning technique, then I agree that clipless is the way to go. If you want a bike to commute 10-20 miles with then you do not need clipless, it only makes your life more difficult and potentially more dangerous. If you are like me, and are more into technical trails and BMX, then clipless only builds really bad habits like cheating while you bunnyhop, or not being able to bail properly.

I guess what I am saying is that the majority of people who ride bikes do not need clipless. If you are talking about pedal stroke efficiency and that is a big thing for you, then you are not in the majority and should definitley ride clipless, and have your stem height measured and bike custom fit also. If I was a road bike rider for long distances, I would definitley do all of those things, but I simply don't get into that style of riding.

AmericanTemplar
07-15-2010, 02:48 PM
Well, I am not sure how everyone rides. There are different reasons for each person. If you are serious about road biking and spinning technique, then I agree that clipless is the way to go. If you want a bike to commute 10-20 miles with then you do not need clipless, it only makes your life more difficult and potentially more dangerous. If you are like me, and are more into technical trails and BMX, then clipless only builds really bad habits like cheating while you bunnyhop, or not being able to bail properly.

I guess what I am saying is that the majority of people who ride bikes do not need clipless. If you are talking about pedal stroke efficiency and that is a big thing for you, then you are not in the majority and should definitley ride clipless, and have your stem height measured and bike custom fit also. If I was a road bike rider for long distances, I would definitley do all of those things, but I simply don't get into that style of riding.

I'm still having difficulty understanding how riding clipless is more dangerous. It may be more dangerous for your first couple of rides while getting used to them, but I definitely feel safer being clipped in while frantically spinning down hills at 50 mph. But yeah, they're not necessary for just commuting. With MTBing on the other hand I ride clipless & wouldn't go any other way. I don't like the thought of slipping off of platforms over rough terrain & I would think that they would make climbing over loose stuff like sand next to impossible. Again, it sounds like you do a different type of riding than I do. It also doesn't sound like you have much experience riding clipless, the cheating while bunnyhopping comment being the biggest clue, but I may be wrong.

Power Player
07-15-2010, 02:59 PM
I have seen enough n00bs fall on clipless bikes to realize it is far more dangerous then simply putting your foot down when you need to get off the pedals. Falling and not being able to unclip is a common issue with anyone new to clipless riding, and it takes longer then 2 sessions to get good at unclipping. Many guys I talk to complained about how long it took. One guy I know broke 2 ribs falling off his bike clipped in, and was going maybe 5 mph. But like I said, I consider someone just getting into riding a person that will learn by commuting and getting used to the bike....if we are still talking Fixies.

For MTB, I have never seen anyone new on clipless bunnyhop the right way, which is launching off the back tire, and sucking up the bike. Instead they pull both wheels up at the same time because it is far easier (even though they will never get up higher then 2 feet) and immediately develop a bad habit from it.

I live in florida so I go over sand all the time with no issues. I have 510 shoes and pedals with good grip when I ride singletracks. We have a place called Santos that is real demanding and is basically a MTB haven down here. Being able to hop over huge logs and manual off of ledges is a must for the black trails. I would not want to loop out a manual clipped in...ever.

I have never once ever heard anyone recommend clipless to new riders. This is the first time I have ever heard it before, and that is fine if it is your opinion, but it is in the minority of anything I have ever heard.

AmericanTemplar
07-15-2010, 03:55 PM
I haven't recommended clipless to a new rider, but I would recommend cages over flats for fixed riding to any rider who plans on descending any hills. Remember, the cranks will keep spinning if your feet slip off of your platforms while descending. But I'm just speaking as someone who has ridden fixed for a few years now, coming from a city where half of the bikes on the road are fixed (& there are A LOT in this city). I wouldn't recommend cages or clipless to BMX riders--actually I would save recommendation-making for what should be used with BMX bikes to you, since you actually ride them.

OrangeOne
07-15-2010, 04:25 PM
I'm leaving fixed out of my comments here, as I don't ride them.

For General Road, or General MTB: Clipless is my number one recommendation. Even for a new rider, it only takes the aforementioned 2 or 3 sessions and people get the hang of it.

I do agree that clipless don't teach correct MTB 'hopping' techniques, but most don't learn that any-which-way, and most are riding trails that are less technical than that. As AT mentioned, there are times when clipless are safer than flats, by allowing the feet to stay on the pedals. I know some guys that can bunny-hop small children on flats, but equally, that's been a big focus of their riding. MOST of the riding population rides trails for fun & fitness, and clipless hold so many benefits for that style of general riding.

For road: No question, unless we're talking very short commutes - a mile or two (where changing shoes is a pain in the butt), clipless again is the recommendation. That said, thesedays there are some quite good cross-over shoes that have clips deep in normal soles - I noticed the local bike police wearing some only yesterday. Again, clipless (compared with flats) is safer, faster, more efficient, better for muscle balance, you name it. I think someone mentioned 10 or 15 miles as being ok on flats? I'd rather have water torture than ride a 15 mile commute on flats! ;)

Oh - I'd never recommend the old-style tie-in cages / whatever you choose to call them, especially to a new rider, but to almost any rider, especially on imperfect roads. They are asking for trouble. Very advanced riders may cope, most others, well, flats or clipless are much, much safer.

As for the whole unclipping debate: It's dead-easy, and modern systems are easier to clip in & out of too. People really do pick up the hang of it quickly.

Power Player
07-15-2010, 05:19 PM
I ride 25-30 miles on flats. It's nothing. A lot of people are switching back to flats. It's a personal preference. I don't think so much about all the details, I just ride and commit to the technical parts. If I had pains or inefficient pedaling, I'd consider switching, but I never have.

Honestly, the MTB community is split 50/50 on which is best. I know if I was a new rider looking to learn how to ride trails, I would definitley not want the added stress of being clipped in. I have never heard anybody say they learned it in 2-3 sessions yet. I have heard numerous people say they fell really hard for a while before they got it down, and a buddy of mine who has been racing for years still can't always unclip in time before wrecking.

I'm just going to disagree yet again with clipless being easier for a new rider then a platform pedal. Especially if they are just riding for fun. I also ride a hardtail and think full suspension is not needed unless you ride downhill. And I wold definitley not want to be clipped in for that either..lol!

OrangeOne
07-15-2010, 06:04 PM
I ride 25-30 miles on flats. It's nothing. A lot of people are switching back to flats. It's a personal preference. I don't think so much about all the details, I just ride and commit to the technical parts. If I had pains or inefficient pedaling, I'd consider switching, but I never have.

I have known 1000s of MTB riders in my life - literally 1000s (due to a job I did for quite some time). I'm not sure I know a single person, at least in the dominant XC/Trail scene, that has 'switched back' to flats.

Honestly, the MTB community is split 50/50 on which is best.


Small sections of the MTB community may be, but on the whole, the largest percentage of MTB riders are xc/all-mountain trail riders, and there's little debate there.

I know if I was a new rider looking to learn how to ride trails, I would definitley not want the added stress of being clipped in. I have never heard anybody say they learned it in 2-3 sessions yet. I have heard numerous people say they fell really hard for a while before they got it down, and a buddy of mine who has been racing for years still can't always unclip in time before wrecking.

Ok, so maybe 4-5 sessions? And sure, many will want to learn for a bit with flats and then transition. Some will relish the challenge of both. Everyone will have 'SPuD' moments here and there when learning - heck, i've seen national-level riders forget to unclip and fall over in front of 100s of people. But the bigger question is, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? The answer is a resounding yes, as almost every human being can ride further with more efficiency if clipped in.

I'm no technical guru and when I got into cycling I started on the road with clipless - tougher to get in & out of, tougher to stand (as road shoes and roads tend to be 'slipperier' than dirt, and tougher when you fall. I got the hang pretty quick....

I'm just going to disagree yet again with clipless being easier for a new rider then a platform pedal. Especially if they are just riding for fun.

I don't think we're talking 'brand new' rider here, but once someone masters the very basics....

I also ride a hardtail and think full suspension is not needed unless you ride downhill. And I wold definitley not want to be clipped in for that either..lol!

Not sure where this comes into it? The HT/FS debate is one that can go forever. I ride a HT, but if I were buying a bike now I'd likely buy FS as it'd make some of the more technical trails both more comfortable and enjoyable. FS bikes of 2010 don't have the same disadvantages that they did 10-15 years ago, but I'm sure you'd know that. The idea of something with 3-5 inches of lockout-able travel at the rear appeals quite a lot to me.

As for clipless and DH - well, of course 95% ride on flats. A few of the best in the world are going clipless now, and it'll be interesting to see how many follow.

Power Player
07-15-2010, 06:11 PM
Well you definitley like to debate and may be taking this more seriously then me. I said my opinion and what trends I am seeing here in my region. I can't go back and forth about something on the internet forever.

How you ride is the most important factor in making your decision. That really is my main point and I will leave it at that.

AmericanTemplar
07-15-2010, 07:11 PM
I totally agree with OrangeOne on clipless being the standard for road & most MTBing, although I don't know what is common with downhill & dirt-jumping. I know that I am a rarity, but I actually never have fallen from staying clipped in--even on my first time out.

The reason that I say that cages are generally preferable for riding fixed is because with clipless you have to be able to get into the pedal while the cranks are spinning, which can be difficult & dangerous if you're starting from the top of a hill. With cages at least you have the option of riding on the back of the pedals until you're able to get into them. Also because the drivetrain is used just as much to power the bike as it is to modulate speed, I feel more secure in cages than I do with clipless, since I don't have to worry about accidentally popping out of them.

Also, Power Player - the reason that OrangeOne is taking the debate seriously, as am I, is because we both feel that you are providing information that could be misleading to the people on this board who are looking to use their hard earned cash to get into cycling.

Power Player
07-15-2010, 09:27 PM
Really? That's total BS.You are telling people to buy their first bike from Bikes Direct, so they will have no local bike shop support for repairs and will have to pay 50-100 dollars just to have the bike assembled. I can see maybe down the road, but as their first bike, that would be a bad option.They can't even get on the bike to see how the geo is for them before purchasing it, yet somehow I am giving misleading advice?

As for clipless being the standard for most MTBing, that is also complete BS. I could see if you said it was 50/50 split or a personal choice, but to say I am giving misinfo and then you turn around and say it is the standard to ride clipless is laughable.

Here is a link to a mountain bike site which immediately proves both of you guys wrong in your hard stances (people are switching to platforms from clipless in this discussion). Further reading in that site would be optimal for a new rider instead of reading 3 guys opinions on a tennis board. You will see that most people are split in their preference, and in no way is clipless "the standard". In fact some studies show that it could actually be damaging to your legs and only gives you a 10% power increase.

Furthermore, you can research opinions on Bikes Direct there and get much better information then here. Regardless, I have not given any misleading info at all, it just is contrary to your opinion and that bothers you for some reason. I really did not need a debate, but once you start calling me out you should realize that you don't know everything about bikes (nor do I, but I know some stuff). Or if you do, I will start calling you fastfreddy from now on...haha.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=611244

And here is a very popular instruction site referenced in the thread.
http://www.bikejames.com/

OrangeOne
07-15-2010, 10:13 PM
Really? That's total BS.You are telling people to buy their first bike from Bikes Direct, so they will have no local bike shop support for repairs and will have to pay 50-100 dollars just to have the bike assembled. I can see maybe down the road, but as their first bike, that would be a bad option.They can't even get on the bike to see how the geo is for them before purchasing it, yet somehow I am giving misleading advice?

A bikes direct (or equivalent bike) will not cost $100 to finalise assembly anywhere. It would be a price equivalent to a minor service at best.

Also - if you want to call people on BS - how about the bit in red. Sure, people will have to pay for support, but it will indeed be there, just as most bike purchasers have to pay for support.

As for clipless being the standard for most MTBing, that is also complete BS. I could see if you said it was 50/50 split or a personal choice, but to say I am giving misinfo and then you turn around and say it is the standard to ride clipless is laughable.
I often attend 1000-2000-person-plus participation-based mountain bike events. 95%-plus of these riders are using clipless.

Again, trail/xc riding covers the vast majority of the sport, and most of these riders end up clipless.

Here is a link to a mountain bike site which immediately proves both of you guys wrong in your hard stances (people are switching to platforms from clipless in this discussion). You posted a thread on a forum. That's like me saying "thesedays, most people gravitate towards heavy, small framed racquets" and posting a link to the KPS88 thread on here. Please. Subjectivity at it's worst.

In fact some studies show that it could actually be damaging to your legs and only gives you a 10% power increase.
Post them (the studies) and I'll read them.

As for the power increase - have people been focusing on the extra power from clipless? The power section of the pedal stroke is primarily the same, clipped or unclipped.

The key difference is that being clipped-in allows you to better utilise the whole pedal stroke - which better balances the muscles used. It's vital when it comes to covering distance - which isn't about power, but is about endurance. The average rider (other than FFreddy) isn't looking for more power, they're looking to feel better as they ride further, and feel better the next day.

AmericanTemplar
07-15-2010, 11:23 PM
How about having a look at the Motobecane subforums, if you want to see whether or not BD buyers are generally pleased with their purchases: http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=133

The funniest part about your attempt at a rebuttal, Power Player, is that you completely neglect to consider the fact that I already brought up the downside to buying from BD in my early posts. I even suggested that anyone who buys from BD should either know a bit about bikes themselves or have a friend who can help them out. Not to mention with the fixed bikes in particular, anyone is capable of sliding in the seatpost, mounting the front wheel, attaching the stem/bars, & attaching the brake lever, which is all that is required for assembly.

Next: an opinion would be to state "I like platform pedals." A more honest expansion on that admission would be "I like platform pedals because that is all I have used." You have been providing "facts" that are completely wrong, that could be misleading to anybody who doesn't know any better (i.e. the OP & anyone else who has asked for advice in this thread).

Virtua Tennis
07-16-2010, 12:10 AM
I will laugh my *** off if someone dies riding a fixed gear and gets hit by car.

There's a reason why those bikes are used for track racing it's because you ride in a circle and don't need to brake for on coming traffic.

albino smurf
07-16-2010, 04:38 AM
I bet you're the life of the party

Power Player
07-16-2010, 04:44 AM
"I often attend 1000-2000-person-plus participation-based mountain bike events. 95%-plus of these riders are using clipless. "

I love how you ask for proof of the studies I mentioned which are easily found with a google search (Or ON the second website I posted if you wanted to look and learn instead of argue), yet you expect me to believe statements like the one quoted as gospel. Here's mine - I see thousands of MTB riders all the time and half ride platforms.

Also, I pay nothing for repairs from my LBS since i bought my bike from them. They charge 75$ to put together a bike from scratch that isn't from them. That fits between the 50-100$ range that I mentioned, and is not even worth debating.

Finally, like I said again, a new rider should buy a bike that they can sit on and test ride before they spend money. A new rider will not know enough about bikes to buy one off the internet sight unseen.

Just getting mad and saying "my attempt at a rebuttal" proves my point. you want to be the expert here and don't like to be challenged in a normal discussion. I appalud you for going 50mph with your bike and never ever once falling out while being clipped in. You obviously have a big ego about riding and need the validation of being a net expert.

Not one thing I said is wrong or could be proven to be wrong by you. Instead you simply repeat yourself over and over and try to insult what I say.

OrangeOne
07-16-2010, 05:49 AM
"I often attend 1000-2000-person-plus participation-based mountain bike events. 95%-plus of these riders are using clipless. "

I love how you ask for proof of the studies I mentioned which are easily found with a google search (Or ON the second website I posted if you wanted to look and learn instead of argue), yet you expect me to believe statements like the one quoted as gospel. Here's mine - I see thousands of MTB riders all the time and half ride platforms.

Ok. I choose to remain anonymous on these forums, and can't stay so without divulging more than I have, so I'll choose to believe your anecdotal statistic, and hope you believe mine.

Also, I pay nothing for repairs from my LBS since i bought my bike from them. They charge 75$ to put together a bike from scratch that isn't from them. That fits between the 50-100$ range that I mentioned, and is not even worth debating.

From scratch. They're the key words there.

Finally, like I said again, a new rider should buy a bike that they can sit on and test ride before they spend money. A new rider will not know enough about bikes to buy one off the internet sight unseen.


Very few bike stores *in my neck of the woods* provide a decent test-ride service, many offer none. I'm glad for people near you if yours indeed do.

Just getting mad and saying "my attempt at a rebuttal" proves my point. you want to be the expert here and don't like to be challenged in a normal discussion. I appalud you for going 50mph with your bike and never ever once falling out while being clipped in. You obviously have a big ego about riding and need the validation of being a net expert.

Not one thing I said is wrong or could be proven to be wrong by you. Instead you simply repeat yourself over and over and try to insult what I say.

I assume this section of your reply is address to ATemplar as the rebuttal quote was his.

Power Player
07-16-2010, 06:14 AM
OOne yes, correct not all of it was towards you. You are also on the other side of the world so things are probably different since biking is heavily influenced by trends. I can go to any of the 10+ bike stores in 15 miles of me and test ride a bike. And from scratch means assembling a bike, but I was actually quoted that price when I was asking about Bikes Direct also.

Here there is a big debate on flat vs clips, as flats have become a lot more popular.

MTB is evolving so fast that there are no fixed rules on what to do. Hence my opinion on starting on flats. When I was riding MTB 10 years ago, people used toe clips. They evolved to being clipped in, and now more and more people here are going away from that to sticky shoes by 510 and platform pedals. Just look at the selection of pedals now compared to 3 years ago, it is dramatic. Bikes have changed from just being MTB bikes to All-Mountain, Downhill, CX, Dirt Jump..etc. .

I have seen some nasty injuries from people being clipped in.

This fixie craze is causing out of shape hipster kids to get hit by cars a lot more down here. I hear about it everytime I go by my LBS. Some kid has no brakes and is new to riding. The exact quote I got last time was "imagine if that guy was clipped in!!!". The best way to learn to ride fixed with no brakes is to have a basic rear break and ween yourself off of it over a long period of time.

That is all I am saying. I am never going to be brash enough to say I know everything or my word is gospel, but I am speaking from my own experience and I am definitley not giving anyone misinformation.

TheJRK
07-16-2010, 07:31 AM
I wouldn't recommend BD to a first time bike owner only because that person probably doesn't know what size frame they need as well other geometry issues.

I only started cyling 10 years ago and when I went into the shop to buy my first road bike, the dude took like 10 different measurements on me. I thought I was just going to sit on one to see if it was comfortable... I didn't know they'd be fitting me for a tuxedo.

I'm 75" tall and I can just imagine if I had tried to order online... My legs would be dragging on the ground and I'd probably have the saddle too far forward and my handlebars too low... or some other improper set-up.

***The above argument is bunk of course if it isn't the guy's first bike.***

As far as pedals go, I have the LOOK style pedals and you can get away with riding on the back of the pedal for a short time until you get clipped in... unlike those smaller SPD types or egg beaters.

AmericanTemplar
07-16-2010, 07:55 AM
A new rider isn't going to have enough riding experience to glean much from a test ride anyway. Narrow tires & more aggressive geometry is going to feel awkward, initially, to anyone who has only ridden hybrids or BMX bikes. I think that one of the most frequent complaints I hear from people who are new to road or track bikes (or even MTB's set up for XC) is "I feel too stretched out." I remember experiencing this myself. Saddle discomfort is another complaint (don't switch it out to a plush gel monstrosity!). Generally that problem is rooted in a combination of having ones saddle too low & at an angle that doesn't give much support.

If you want to buy a bike from BD, take your measurements & check out the sizing chart for whichever bike that you fancy. Have a cyclist friend take a look at it & make sure that you've set it up properly. I wouldn't recommend buying a geared bike from BD if you are new to cycling or if you don't know how to service your bike. Fixed/SS are pretty simple machines though!

BTW, PP - it's clear that you're just making stuff up. You've contradicted yourself several times now. LOL at the "exact quote" that you heard.

Kevin T
07-16-2010, 08:22 AM
A new rider isn't going to have enough riding experience to glean much from a test ride anyway. Narrow tires & more aggressive geometry is going to feel awkward, initially, to anyone who has only ridden hybrids or BMX bikes. I think that one of the most frequent complaints I hear from people who are new to road or track bikes (or even MTB's set up for XC) is "I feel too stretched out." I remember experiencing this myself. Saddle discomfort is another complaint (don't switch it out to a plush gel monstrosity!). Generally that problem is rooted in a combination of having ones saddle too low & at an angle that doesn't give much support.

If you want to buy a bike from BD, take your measurements & check out the sizing chart for whichever bike that you fancy. Have a cyclist friend take a look at it & make sure that you've set it up properly. I wouldn't recommend buying a geared bike from BD if you are new to cycling or if you don't know how to service your bike. Fixed/SS are pretty simple machines though!

BTW, PP - it's clear that you're just making stuff up. You've contradicted yourself several times now. LOL at the "exact quote" that you heard.

Templar,

I emailed BD, let them know my needs/how I was considering the 'chrome' and 'stripper' models and here's what they recommended:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_s3x.htm

and

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_wt5.htm

Thoughts? I still like the idea of a single gear/speed, though. And like I said, my work commute is flat as a pancake. I have 2 little ones at home, so weekend riding will also be few and far between. Thanks!

By the way, I did the Flume Trail in Lake Tahoe with my father-in-law and bro-in-law over the 4th of July. Amazing! If you haven't done it, make sure you do.

Camilio Pascual
07-16-2010, 08:25 AM
If you have bad knees and don't live in Kansas, don't get one.

AmericanTemplar
07-16-2010, 08:39 AM
Templar,

I emailed BD, let them know my needs/how I was considering the 'chrome' and 'stripper' models and here's what they recommended:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_s3x.htm

and

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_wt5.htm

Thoughts? I still like the idea of a single gear/speed, though. And like I said, my work commute is flat as a pancake. I have 2 little ones at home, so weekend riding will also be few and far between. Thanks!

By the way, I did the Flume Trail in Lake Tahoe with my father-in-law and bro-in-law over the 4th of July. Amazing! If you haven't done it, make sure you do.

I think any of the 4 would be a good choice! They're all essentially the same frame & you can't go wrong with the Kilo frame for the money! The last one that you posted looks like it could be fun, since you could put fatter tires on & ride dirt trails as well. I think you'd be happy with any of them though. I personally don't have any experience with internally geared hubs, but I have friends who have & like them.

Is the Flume Trail one of those cement gutters that you ride down with a little cart? If so, I've done those a couple of times before & they're pretty fun.

Kevin T
07-16-2010, 08:52 AM
If you have bad knees and don't live in Kansas, don't get one.

My knees are great and Sacto is about as flat as Kansas, so I'm covered.

athiker
07-16-2010, 08:55 AM
Enjoying this thread (well most of it) as I'm starting to ride more in an attempt at a lower impact sport to x-train for my tennis.

Anyway, normally I'm a Google master but since I know very little about biking and there are multiple terms that are kind of generic words I thought it be simpler to just ask here.

What are:

clips
clipless
platform
flats

Both my mountain bike and my road bike have basket like things I slip my forefoot into and require no special shoes but allow me to both push and pull. What are those called?

I'm pretty sure I know what "clips" are...the pedals that need the special shoes. Are those standardized or are there different types of those? Pros and cons of each clip style (assuming there are more than one)?

Thanks!

Kevin T
07-16-2010, 08:55 AM
I think any of the 4 would be a good choice! They're all essentially the same frame & you can't go wrong with the Kilo frame for the money! The last one that you posted looks like it could be fun, since you could put fatter tires on & ride dirt trails as well. I think you'd be happy with any of them though. I personally don't have any experience with internally geared hubs, but I have friends who have & like them.

Is the Flume Trail one of those cement gutters that you ride down with a little cart? If so, I've done those a couple of times before & they're pretty fun.

Thanks, Templar.

And RE the Flume Trail...NOT a cement gutter. :) One of the best mountain biking trails in the world and usually on most of those "100 things to do before you die" lists.

http://www.theflumetrail.com/

Easily the best outdoor activity I've done this year. Three miles of pain/1000ft of elevation gain, followed by ~10-11 miles of flat mixed with nice, long descents with fantastic views of Lake Tahoe.

athiker
07-16-2010, 09:07 AM
Okay, I reread some of this stuff. I'm gathering "platforms" and "flats" are one and the same?...basic pedals like my old Banana seat Schwinn used to have?!

The "baskets" I described above are "cages"?

The really confusing one is that riding "clipless" seems to actually mean riding with clips? :confused:

AmericanTemplar
07-16-2010, 09:13 AM
Yeah, I know how the pedal thing is confusing. Clipless means without "toe clips" (AKA cages, baskets, etc) but with step in (clip in) pedals. You're right about everything else!

I'll have to check out the flumetrail. I road Northstar almost 20 years ago when they were first opening up the mountain to MTB's & still recall it as being one of the best times I've ever had.

Edit: I just looked at some videos & that looks beautiful/awesome!

Going here on Sunday: http://vimeo.com/12375050

Power Player
07-16-2010, 09:59 AM
BTW, PP - it's clear that you're just making stuff up. You've contradicted yourself several times now. LOL at the "exact quote" that you heard.

It's clear that you want to be the expert and have a huge ego about bikes, so I will let you continue to convince yourself off all these things if it makes you feel better about yourself.

If anything sounds made up, it's you saying that you never have once not gotten out of your clips before falling and that you ride your bike at 50 mph, but whatever works for ya.

Power Player
07-16-2010, 10:03 AM
I wouldn't recommend BD to a first time bike owner only because that person probably doesn't know what size frame they need as well other geometry issues.

I only started cyling 10 years ago and when I went into the shop to buy my first road bike, the dude took like 10 different measurements on me. I thought I was just going to sit on one to see if it was comfortable... I didn't know they'd be fitting me for a tuxedo.

I'm 75" tall and I can just imagine if I had tried to order online... My legs would be dragging on the ground and I'd probably have the saddle too far forward and my handlebars too low... or some other improper set-up.

***The above argument is bunk of course if it isn't the guy's first bike.***

As far as pedals go, I have the LOOK style pedals and you can get away with riding on the back of the pedal for a short time until you get clipped in... unlike those smaller SPD types or egg beaters.

Agreed 100%.

I had those hybrid pedals you are talking about also. They seemed to do each task about half as good as they should so I ended up going to platforms and never looked back.

It's a complete personal choice. If I was a roadie, I'd go clipped in, but that's about it.

ATHiker you have toe clips on your mountain bike. They are now considered undesirable for MTB, but 10 years ago were extremely common. If you are cross training for tennis and decide you want to ride clipped in, be very careful and practice unclipping a lot. Bailing and not getting unclipped in time will keep you off the courts for a while because you will land on your arms and wrists.

AmericanTemplar
07-16-2010, 10:33 AM
If anything sounds made up, it's you saying that you never have once not gotten out of your clips before falling and that you ride your bike at 50 mph, but whatever works for ya.

Haha, I don't regularly "ride...[my]...bike at 50 mph," but I have gotten up to that speed spinning rapidly down big descents.

Also, I don't claim to be an expert about bikes, but I do know more than some (you, clearly) & less than others.

athiker
07-16-2010, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the additional clarification on pedal types all. I now see the origin/history of "clipless".

I hear you PP on the perils of being clipped in. I watched my neighbor take a fall when she couldn't get unclipped just coming to a stop in her driveway! No big injuries but a pretty decent sized scrape on her knee. My wife gets a kick out of watching me fall in various sports (I guess I've fallen a good bit over the years!) tucking and rolling. An early date was mountain biking where I came over the front and off to the side, tucking and rolling. She just couldn't get over it (no injuries though!). I try to keep breakable parts tucked in whenever possible in whatever sport.

So at the risk of starting another debate...what "clipless" systems/brands are there out there and what are their pros/cons? And of course by "clipless" I actually mean "clipped in"! :cool:

EDIT: I'm talking road biking here only. I only get to mountain bike very sporadically, and nothing too challenging, so no plans to change anything there. I hope to get into a regular road biking routine though.

AmericanTemplar
07-16-2010, 10:49 AM
Fortunately, most of those types of accidents from not being able to get unclipped are at a stand still.

There are way too many different pedal systems to get into all of them & I've only used three clipless systems. On the simplest level there's road vs mountain pedal systems. The benefit of road pedals is that they generally have a bigger pedal surface, which is supposed to mean better power transfer & the soles of road shoes are usually stiffer for the same reason, which means that they're terrible for walking around. Mountain pedals are designed to be better at shedding mud & dirt & can usually be clipped in from both sides of the pedal (or 4 sides in some cases). The shoes usually aren't as stiff, since you may need to get off the bike on some trails & the cleats are usually recessed, which makes it easier to walk around.

Power Player
07-16-2010, 11:19 AM
.

Also, I don't claim to be an expert about bikes, but I do know more than some (you, clearly)

That's all I needed to see. You are obviously immature and I'll put you on ignore now to spare others from seeing more back and forth. Saying stuff like that is a sign of needing to feel superior, and I feel sorry that you need to do that to feel better about yourself and boost your ego on an internet message board.

AThiker, for road biking, you probably want to clip in. I will leave that gear suggestion to others, since I am not a roadie. Just be real careful, you don't want to lose tennis time from a bad fall. Best thing to do is what you feel comfortable doing. Last thing you want is to be tentative and stiff on any bike.

AmericanTemplar
07-16-2010, 12:34 PM
Haha, whatever dude. Alright, you know more than I do about BMX & DH, but nobody has asked about either of those disciplines here.

athiker - I'd suggest digging around the internet for pedal reviews. For road, I've only ridden older Look style & current Campy ProFit. The older Look style were OK & I love the Campy ProFits (but those are way out of most people's price range).

OrangeOne
07-16-2010, 03:44 PM
I'm 75" tall and I can just imagine if I had tried to order online... My legs would be dragging on the ground and I'd probably have the saddle too far forward and my handlebars too low... or some other improper set-up.

I don't see why you'd have necessarily ordered the wrong size bike if you ordered online - there are size and fit guides for bikes online a-plenty.

That said, your point on setup is valid, a good bike store will indeed be helpful in bike setup. If you need an even better option - find a sports physio who is a keen cyclist!

A new rider isn't going to have enough riding experience to glean much from a test ride anyway. Narrow tires & more aggressive geometry is going to feel awkward, initially,

Fair point. Especially the above is true on a road bike - everyone's first roadie feels too stretched out, too hard, too fast (light), etc. I couldn't get over the freedom / scary-fast feeling hopping on a roadie in my early 20s after not cycling since teens.

I had those hybrid pedals you are talking about also. They seemed to do each task about half as good as they should so I ended up going to platforms and never looked back.

Umm, with all the respect in the world, actually how experienced are you with clipless pedals? Because the post that you were replying to wasn't referring to a hybrid pedal, it was referring to small, SPD-only or EggBeater options that are in fact not a hybrid at all, they are purely just a lock-in spot for an SPD or CBrothers cleat.

OrangeOne
07-16-2010, 03:52 PM
Pros and cons of each clip style (assuming there are more than one)?

Thanks!

Fortunately, most of those types of accidents from not being able to get unclipped are at a stand still.

There are way too many different pedal systems to get into all of them & I've only used three clipless systems. On the simplest level there's road vs mountain pedal systems. The benefit of road pedals is that they generally have a bigger pedal surface, which is supposed to mean better power transfer & the soles of road shoes are usually stiffer for the same reason, which means that they're terrible for walking around. Mountain pedals are designed to be better at shedding mud & dirt & can usually be clipped in from both sides of the pedal (or 4 sides in some cases). The shoes usually aren't as stiff, since you may need to get off the bike on some trails & the cleats are usually recessed, which makes it easier to walk around.

Ahh, to go back 10 years. For 10 years ago, there were very, very few options indeed, and answering your question (athiker) would be easy. But as we know, few options equals high pricing and limited selection, and thus, the market is now better for the consumer.

ATemplar has done a good job above of summarising.

For those with knee problems, ask your bike shop for pedal systems that have some 'float' - lets you find the natural position for your foot while still clipped in.

For those who are new - don't go too expensive or too light, as these can result in regular maintenance. At least one brand out there is very functional, and very light for the money, but equally, is heavy on the maintenance.

Apart from that - it's all about regular purchasing - price, experience and design will factor into your choices.

OrangeOne
07-16-2010, 03:58 PM
If anything sounds made up, it's you saying that you never have once not gotten out of your clips before falling and that you ride your bike at 50 mph

Just noticed this criticism above directed at ATemplar, which is really invalid - I mean, if I've hit 50+, why should others have not?

I used to live an hour or so west of a capital city, just into the local mountains. My regular ride would be out my door, 3 k's along the road, and then around the corner and down the hill to the city.

If I didn't pedal my way around the corner, 70kph (37mph) was easily seen and gone.

If I did pedal my way onto the descent, I used to hit around 87-88kph - which is just over 50mph.

It wasn't long before I decided that while going the same speed as traffic was fun, I would probably be even more dead if I fell off, so I stopped attacking my way onto the descent.

AmericanTemplar
07-16-2010, 06:51 PM
Yeah, I don't regularly hit speeds of 50+ (high 40's is more typical), but my point was just that I wouldn't want to slip off of flats while spinning at that speed when I do get going that fast.

Also, I should mention that I'm not the kind of person to usually attack people's character over the Internet. I believe in giving people the same respect online as I would face-to-face, otherwise I'd feel like a coward. I guess with PP, I wasn't clever enough to come up with a way to point out that he was fabricating information without making the argument ad hominem.

Power Player
07-16-2010, 11:47 PM
Umm, with all the respect in the world, actually how experienced are you with clipless pedals? Because the post that you were replying to wasn't referring to a hybrid pedal, it was referring to small, SPD-only or EggBeater options that are in fact not a hybrid at all, they are purely just a lock-in spot for an SPD or CBrothers cleat.


I read it as he wanted a hybrid as opposed to an egg beater. In my experience, you either go 100% clipless or 100% platform. None of the "tweeners" really deliver as well. That is what I meant, and I think you would agree.

I don't appreciate being told that I am making stuff up especially since I linked to other sites that support what I said. I think I am the only person here to actually post links to back up my opinions. Anyway, its all good. I ignored the kid and can't see his posts anymore, but I have been riding since the early 90s and my opinions and experience is just as valid as anyone else's.

mtommer
07-17-2010, 12:44 PM
We have a place called Santos that is real demanding and is basically a MTB haven down here.


I remember Santos when I lived in Orlando for a year. Unfortunately I left before things got going and they cleaned it up and made it the park I've heard it is now. I remember getting lost on the yellow (?) trail my first time out (not getting lost overall, just lost the trail before it crossed over the road).

Power Player
07-17-2010, 01:19 PM
I remember Santos when I lived in Orlando for a year. Unfortunately I left before things got going and they cleaned it up and made it the park I've heard it is now. I remember getting lost on the yellow (?) trail my first time out (not getting lost overall, just lost the trail before it crossed over the road).

Yep, I know what you are talking about. Easy to get lost there. You should come back and check it out now. They have singletracks really suited for XC, and also dirt jumps and red and black tech trails.

If you go past where you were lost, there are now black trails with super steep rollers into skinnies that will send you out over 10 foot gap drops that launch you off a tabletop. That is called the vortex and there are 8, 10, 15 20 and 28 foot drops into it. They have the annual fat tire festival that is sponsored and attended by lots of bike companies and features a lot of pro riders doing ridiculous jumps.

It's really turned into a premier park for this region.

FastFreddy
07-17-2010, 07:06 PM
I'm still having difficulty understanding how riding clipless is more dangerous. It may be more dangerous for your first couple of rides while getting used to them, but I definitely feel safer being clipped in while frantically spinning down hills at 50 mph. But yeah, they're not necessary for just commuting. With MTBing on the other hand I ride clipless & wouldn't go any other way. I don't like the thought of slipping off of platforms over rough terrain & I would think that they would make climbing over loose stuff like sand next to impossible. Again, it sounds like you do a different type of riding than I do. It also doesn't sound like you have much experience riding clipless, the cheating while bunnyhopping comment being the biggest clue, but I may be wrong.


So you have went 50 mph on a fixed gear no brakes down a huge hill in the City of SF with clipess or toe clips? That sounds way to dangerous you are crazy! What gear 44x16 so what rpm is that? I have done 50mph once on my litespeed with 56x11, Zipp Z4 with Conti 19m tubulars. Most on the time I hit 44-46 mph.

AmericanTemplar
07-17-2010, 07:37 PM
No, that's how fast I've gotten on my road bike. Fixed I've only gotten up to about 40 or so, although I rarely use a computer on it so I'm only basing that on getting up to 38 one of the few times that I was using one & knowing that that couldn't have been the fastest that I've ever gotten going. My gear ratio is 48x19, BTW & I use toe clips fixed & clipless for road & mountain.

Polaris
07-18-2010, 06:27 PM
And if you guys missed the memo, Fastfreddy is the expert on everything. Cars, Tennis, Women, Bikes..he will vomit info on any topic before force feeding you his resume.

Don't forget that he's also a big wave surfer and dates models. :)

And please make sure to keep freddy away from davey25. If the two of them mate, we had better start preparing for the apocalypse. :)

Polaris
07-18-2010, 06:31 PM
I'm amazed to read about the speeds you guys reach. I bike regularly in Cambridge and Somerville and 21 mph is the fastest I've gone so far. I'd love to go out on emptier roads and try out higher speeds on a proper road bike.

OrangeOne
07-18-2010, 06:43 PM
I'm amazed to read about the speeds you guys reach. I bike regularly in Cambridge and Somerville and 21 mph is the fastest I've gone so far. I'd love to go out on emptier roads and try out higher speeds on a proper road bike.

Most moderately fit males who take up road riding as a hobby will find that 18-19+ mph is a solid training pace on open roads. I say this not to insult, but to highlight the difference open road & road bikes can make.

If you're riding a commuter or a mountain bike, you'll be amazed to see the difference a road bike makes in sheer speed - the fact that the narrow tyres pumped up to 100+psi have next-to-no rolling resistance is a big start. Find one with a sexy (read: light & stiff) set of wheels, and notice the difference again (though that's in terms of acceleration, not outright speed).

The speeds we were discussing above (40-50+) require the benefit of a significant decline in terrain, ie. down a big, big hill, and are not advised for those who are new, inexperienced, or on equipment they wouldn't entrust with their lives. Put another way: Kids, please do not try this at home, especially on your BMX or KMart bike!

The real rush of speed for me is when you're tucked into a bunch of riders in a criterium race (short course). Requires much more skill than just hurling down a hill...

athiker
07-19-2010, 10:19 AM
Thanks for the additional feedback on on clipless systems. Yeah, I'm not looking for the latest and greatest lightest system. I'm looking for quality at a price and am okay if the weight suffers in favor of durability and low hassle. I'm not going to set the world on fire with my rides no matter what I use. I'm just trying to work up to joining a local group on their twice weekly training rides that start right in my neighborhood.

AmericanTemplar
07-20-2010, 07:39 AM
I'm sure that these would be god for the price: http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-SPD-SL-Road-Pedals-Black/dp/B000P9TOHQ/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1279640292&sr=8-10

TheJRK
07-20-2010, 10:23 AM
I'm sure that these would be god for the price: http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-SPD-SL-Road-Pedals-Black/dp/B000P9TOHQ/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1279640292&sr=8-10

Those are similar to the pair I have...

http://brandscycle.com/product/shimano-shimano-pd-6700-ultegra-spd-sl-road-pedal-14361.htm

As I mentioned earlier, you can get away with using the back of them if you can't get clipped-in fast enough.

mtommer
07-21-2010, 09:44 AM
Thanks for the additional feedback on on clipless systems. Yeah, I'm not looking for the latest and greatest lightest system. I'm looking for quality at a price and am okay if the weight suffers in favor of durability and low hassle. I'm not going to set the world on fire with my rides no matter what I use. I'm just trying to work up to joining a local group on their twice weekly training rides that start right in my neighborhood.

You don't have to go to a road specific click-in (:D) pedal. I run Shimano 520pedals on all of my bikes. It makes buying cleats simpler too.

athiker
07-21-2010, 10:06 AM
Thanks for the suggestions all. I will have to delve into this a bit more. I'm glad there are some decent reasonably priced options though.