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View Full Version : Volkl-Please do a remake of the Tour 10 Gen 1 MP!


richie65
07-18-2010, 04:41 PM
I've been a Volkl fan for many years and still find their best offering is the original Tour 10 MP. it has the power, stability, feel and maneuverability and well it's their best racquet ever. I've tried all 10 series since the V-engine (except the new Powerbridges) and a few older models.

I originally started with the Tour 10 Gen 2 and it was great, as it got rid of my tennis elbow, but it lacked a little power. I loved the V-engine 10 MP, but it brought back my tennis elbow. The V-E 10 mid was too much stick for me. The DNX Mid was too flexy in the throat, but everything else was great. Has the Powerbridge Mid 10 fixed this? the C10 Pro Tour is great, but I just cannot handle this everyday. Serves bombs though. The C7 Comp; best feeling stick ever and I love hitting this, but I feel like I pound the ball and it keeps coming back to me harder. DNX Mid+ just doesn't work as I just don't like the feel off the tight string pattern. I find the Becker 11 to be much better and I like hitting this frame. The C10 Pro is my next favourite, but it still lacks some stability and the overall control of the Gen 1.

The Gen 1 MP is simply the best! Please make this again. NOW!

federer_15
07-18-2010, 04:49 PM
Do you have a picture?

Jinx
07-18-2010, 11:11 PM
you should have tried the PB10 before making this thread =P

0d1n
07-18-2010, 11:54 PM
Do you have a picture?

There you go.

http://i25.tinypic.com/fcl0i.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/5ebpjk.jpg

ericsson
07-19-2010, 12:27 AM
you should have tried the PB10 before making this thread =P

I did, good racket but no Tour 10 gen I, infact not even close. The T10 is so well made, so solid with that sweet buttery feel, the OP is right, if they can bring out the Crusher again (aka Tour8) they can sure bring the T10 back.

sargeinaz
07-19-2010, 12:12 PM
Ericsson, nice sticks as usual. I was wondering did the Tour 10's originally come with the Volkl Cushtac Replacement Grip and in the last pic you posted, does the bottom racket have the Volkl DNX Replacement Grip? Thanks in advance.

0d1n
07-19-2010, 12:33 PM
Ericsson, nice sticks as usual. I was wondering did the Tour 10's originally come with the Volkl Cushtac Replacement Grip and in the last pic you posted, does the bottom racket have the Volkl DNX Replacement Grip? Thanks in advance.

I'm not ericsson, but I've posted the pics so I guess I'll answer ;;). All of them have (or better said HAD) the DNX grip.
Bought them from TW in 2007 when they had some old stock, and that's what they came with.
Currently, I play with them and 2 of them have Babolat leather, and 1 of them Volkl Leather...the pictures are old.

sargeinaz
07-19-2010, 12:39 PM
Oh man, my apologies Od1n, I didnt even see that you posted them. Nice sticks and thank you for answering my question. I quite like DNX grip, but I know people who like leather really like leather. Enjoy them, hopefully they're still that pretty!

0d1n
07-19-2010, 12:53 PM
Oh man, my apologies Od1n, I didnt even see that you posted them. Nice sticks and thank you for answering my question. I quite like DNX grip, but I know people who like leather really like leather. Enjoy them, hopefully they're still that pretty!

Well...they are 3 years older, and one of them just received a new paint chip in a match tonight (and I had to try really hard to make it so...the paint quality is extremely good)... so I'm afraid they're not quite as pretty as they used to be :p.
Still very solid and beautiful though...but just a bit more "wrinkled" ;).

Don S
07-19-2010, 01:03 PM
Bought them from TW in 2007 when they had some old stock, and that's what they came with.
.

Yeah, that explains the Second generation PJ. I have 2 gen1 Tour 10 mids. One with the original "Quantum" at the 7 O'clock position and the one with the newer "Tour". I've had them for almost 8 years so I can't remember what grip they came with, but I use Volkl CushTac grips exclusively.

For the record, I never got the chance to try out the Tour 10 Midplus to see how it stacks up to my mids so I'd like to see it come back too. But we all know that's just not going to happen unfortunetly. :(

Shangri La
07-19-2010, 01:12 PM
Bought them from TW in 2007 when they had some old stock, and that's what they came with.

I remember that. Would have bought a few had I known they're that good... Also, 0d1n, do I sense that you hit with 1hbh (guessing from the ankle socks I mean ankle overgrips:) )? I do that sometimes to my leather grip if I dont want to add too much weight to the handle :)

0d1n
07-19-2010, 01:25 PM
^^ your guess would be right...
Here they are in action...with the leather and the ankle socks (errrrrrrrrrm overgrips) :d...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4772719&postcount=10464

sargeinaz
07-19-2010, 07:46 PM
Well...they are 3 years older, and one of them just received a new paint chip in a match tonight (and I had to try really hard to make it so...the paint quality is extremely good)... so I'm afraid they're not quite as pretty as they used to be :p.
Still very solid and beautiful though...but just a bit more "wrinkled" ;).

Do you trim the headguard? Is it still stable even when trimmed? Im curious as to how much it drops weight and swingweight especially

Ross K
07-19-2010, 08:55 PM
How does the Tour 10 and C10 Pro compare?

danix
07-19-2010, 10:29 PM
Tour10 has more power and is a little stiffer especially in the hoop.

Has the OP tried the London? You should.

0d1n
07-19-2010, 11:14 PM
Do you trim the headguard? Is it still stable even when trimmed? Im curious as to how much it drops weight and swingweight especially

I did trim various amounts of the head guard mostly for matching purposes and to get them to swing the way I like them.
Yes, it's still stable the way I have it setup. I'm not sure about the amount of weight I removed, it depends on the specific racquet and I went by "feel".
I only weighed them recently and with the leather they are 319, 321, 322 grams with a balance of 31 ish cm (give or take a couple of mm, I don't have a proper balance board...I use something I improvised).
Strung the way I like them the SW is anywhere between 325-330 based on comparison with other racquets I've played (never actually measured it), and they weigh between 341-344 grams.
Hope this helps.

smirker
07-19-2010, 11:40 PM
There you go.

http://i25.tinypic.com/fcl0i.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/5ebpjk.jpg

Mind me asking which Vantage sticks you have there?

Interested in the 95/100's with 63RA.

0d1n
07-20-2010, 01:07 AM
The 2 white ones on the left were bought for a friend and his wife.
Can't remember the spec of the "wife racquet". His is 310 grams 32.5 cm balance, 63 flex.
I've played with it, it's very solid, good spin and control, a bit too head heavy for my liking but I could get used to it.
The other 3 are 100's 63 flex. Very easy to play with ... stable, great spin.
If you hit hard though you will need to string it tight and/or with poly for control, the string pattern was quite open and a synthetic at mid to low tension could allow the ball to fly on you.
Played them for a bit, but the stringer broke one of them so I sold the other 2...they were string eaters and I needed at least 3 of them to be comfortable.
I had the Volkls also which I liked...so instead of buying other vantages I just played the Volkls :). Still am...but they are getting a bit old, maybe I'll get some Vantage 95's when the Volkls decide to leave me in the dust. I could play just fine with them if I get the right spec.

smirker
07-20-2010, 02:28 AM
The 2 white ones on the left were bought for a friend and his wife.
Can't remember the spec of the "wife racquet". His is 310 grams 32.5 cm balance, 63 flex.
I've played with it, it's very solid, good spin and control, a bit too head heavy for my liking but I could get used to it.
The other 3 are 100's 63 flex. Very easy to play with ... stable, great spin.
If you hit hard though you will need to string it tight and/or with poly for control, the string pattern was quite open and a synthetic at mid to low tension could allow the ball to fly on you.
Played them for a bit, but the stringer broke one of them so I sold the other 2...they were string eaters and I needed at least 3 of them to be comfortable.
I had the Volkls also which I liked...so instead of buying other vantages I just played the Volkls :). Still am...but they are getting a bit old, maybe I'll get some Vantage 95's when the Volkls decide to leave me in the dust. I could play just fine with them if I get the right spec.

Thanks for the info. A friend has two of the 95" 63RA and loves them. Had a hit and they are super solid and one of the few frames I have hit where I haven't immediately felt it needed lead.

interested primarily in the 100" as I play mostly doubles so the extra " will come in handy.

I do hit fairly hard and contol can be an issue for me so maybe the 95 is the better option. Might have to try to demo them side by side for comparison.

Also looking at Ozone Tour (discontinued over here I am told-UK) and Prestige MP currently but Vantage does appeal.

Using mainly poly hybrids currently at mid tension for my current frames so would probably go that route too with the Vantage. my mate has full poly in his and I felt the feel was somewhat lacking.

Sorry to hear one broke. One off, careless stringer or some inherent weakness to the frame do you think?

0d1n
07-20-2010, 02:47 AM
I think the stringer f...ed up. He payed for the frame so it was no real biggie.

Edit.
What is the spec of your friend's frame ?

smirker
07-20-2010, 03:29 AM
I think the stringer f...ed up. He payed for the frame so it was no real biggie.

Edit.
What is the spec of your friend's frame ?

Its the 221 so 95", 16x19, 63RA, 320 unstrung, and 320mm balance. Pretty perfect specs IMO. I was hoping they did the 100" with the same spec but 18x20 but they don't

galain
07-20-2010, 08:04 AM
How does the Tour 10 and C10 Pro compare?

Firmer in the head, softer in the throat. LOTS of plow Ross - if you can find one you should give it a go. They are pretty rare though. I haven't seen that many come up for sale.

0d1n
07-20-2010, 11:21 AM
Its the 221 so 95", 16x19, 63RA, 320 unstrung, and 320mm balance. Pretty perfect specs IMO. I was hoping they did the 100" with the same spec but 18x20 but they don't

Is that 320 mm balance strung or unstrung ??
The Vantage guys have an error on their website, if you choose 221 on the main page it states it's 320 mm balance but once one goes into the config part it's actually 31 cm (310 mm) balance.
Oops, we're completely hijacking the thread with all this Vantage stuff.
Ross, not sure how it compares to the C10 Pro as I've never played a C10, but given the reports of "noticeably soft in the head" about the C10...I can tell you that the Tour 10 has a more "even" flex throughout the frame.
For example ... the Fischer MSpeed pro no 1 has a noticeably flexible throat and a firmer head, as does the Yonex RQIS Tour 95 for example as opposed to the descriptions about the C10 pro.
To me ... the tour 10 flex is more "even" throughout the length of the frame.

rlau
07-20-2010, 11:29 AM
you should have tried the PB10 before making this thread =P

How do the PB10Mid and the Tour 10 Midplus Gen. I compare? Which frame is better at what?

Rabbit
07-20-2010, 12:45 PM
I gotta say that the London, now that someone mentions it, is pretty close to the T10 albeit a little lighter.

smirker
07-20-2010, 01:04 PM
Is that 320 mm balance strung or unstrung?

It's not very clear is it? I'm presuming strung but I will have to ask him.

Promise no more Vantage talk. To go back on topic got well and truly spanked by a guy wielding a C10 Pro the other night. Nice looking thing but a bit small/heavy for my tastes.

ericsson
07-21-2010, 11:55 PM
Do you trim the headguard? Is it still stable even when trimmed? Im curious as to how much it drops weight and swingweight especially

Sarg, i trim the headguard too and i can tell you the frame is still stable, recently i got a brand new one out of the closet with the full grommet and i have to see say i like the trimmed one a lot more, feels so good in hand and very manouverable. I do apply small amounts of lead at 3 and 9 and in the handle to my desired balance.
Most of my frames are tours but the new one is a quantum and it seems it has a slightly different shape (head), not much but a little, i coudlnt believe it at first cos i know they are the same, the quantums were the early batch, i will dig in to this a little more...

NBM
07-22-2010, 06:36 AM
Do you trim the headguard? Is it still stable even when trimmed? Im curious as to how much it drops weight and swingweight especially

Like ericsson I played my t10's w. the bumpers trimmed. It didnt change the static weight much at all, but dramatically lowered the swingweight. I also think all this talk of stability is off the hook. These racquets arent unstable, and removing weight from 3 and 9 on a racquet like this does not make this racquet unstable unless the operator cant find the generous sweetzone with enough batspeed. personally I found that most people who add lead to a racquet at 3 and 9 to increase stability are actually telling us they cant find the sweetzone w. a fair amount of batspeed. not saying this is you.

Sarg, i trim the headguard too and i can tell you the frame is still stable, recently i got a brand new one out of the closet with the full grommet and i have to see say i like the trimmed one a lot more, feels so good in hand and very manouverable. I do apply small amounts of lead at 3 and 9 and in the handle to my desired balance.
Most of my frames are tours but the new one is a quantum and it seems it has a slightly different shape (head), not much but a little, i coudlnt believe it at first cos i know they are the same, the quantums were the early batch, i will dig in to this a little more...

the quantums came from the same tool as the tours. it is pretty easy to make a racquet head squat down or extend by mounting it improperly in the stringer. some people even say that intentionally stretching the racquet in the stringer makes them play better. i didnt find that to be so, and dont think it is all that great for a racquet. if you plan on stringing the new one, observe how it looks compared to your tours after stringing. i know some of the Head racquets squat down noticeably when removed from the stringer, but have never noticed this about the t10's..or any other volkl/becker racquet for that matter

sargeinaz
07-22-2010, 07:37 AM
^^ Still hitting with the PB9's NBM? Have you tried the Becker London yet? Hope all is well.

NBM
07-22-2010, 03:09 PM
^^ Still hitting with the PB9's NBM? Have you tried the Becker London yet? Hope all is well.

everything's' grt thanks for asking. hope same for you. yes, the pb9's are fantastic I think. I havent hit the London...

dParis
07-23-2010, 06:55 AM
I also think all this talk of stability is off the hook. These racquets arent unstable, and removing weight from 3 and 9 on a racquet like this does not make this racquet unstable unless the operator cant find the generous sweetzone with enough batspeed. personally I found that most people who add lead to a racquet at 3 and 9 to increase stability are actually telling us they cant find the sweetzone w. a fair amount of batspeed. not saying this is you.

I'd like to see the list of racquets, sub-12oz., that are more stable than the t10mp. The sweetzone is the largest of any 98sq. in. frame I've ever tried. If I can find the t10's sweetzone consistently, it must be very generous.

At first I thought the t10 was a little hard to maneuver easily. I switched out the grip pallets from 4 1/2 to 4 3/8 and maneuverability improved greatly without any adverse side effects - and I was able to keep the swingweight (and that great plowthrough and weight of shot) the same.

While the London and t10 have some similarities, the plow and stability of the t10 are a couple of factors that set these two different racquets apart.

morningglory75
07-23-2010, 03:48 PM
I'd like to see the list of racquets, sub-12oz., that are more stable than the t10mp. The sweetzone is the largest of any 98sq. in. frame I've ever tried. If I can find the t10's sweetzone consistently, it must be very generous.

At first I thought the t10 was a little hard to maneuver easily. I switched out the grip pallets from 4 1/2 to 4 3/8 and maneuverability improved greatly without any adverse side effects - and I was able to keep the swingweight (and that great plowthrough and weight of shot) the same.

While the London and t10 have some similarities, the plow and stability of the t10 are a couple of factors that set these two different racquets apart.



I will guarantee that the T10 will not make a comeback; traditional graphite is a dead, and an unmarketable product in the USA--especially since many American players do not grow-up in clubs as they do in Europe, hence, technique suffers dramatically.
You all will have to be satisfied with post traditional graphite materials, and be happy for a future possible 16 main PB 10 MP.

Ross K
07-23-2010, 11:05 PM
I will guarantee that the T10 will not make a comeback; traditional graphite is a dead, and an unmarketable product in the USA--especially since many American players do not grow-up in clubs as they do in Europe, hence, technique suffers dramatically.
You all will have to be satisfied with post traditional graphite materials, and be happy for a future possible 16 main PB 10 MP.

If that could come with a 95-98" head-size, I might well want to investigate that.

Re the OP, it's highly unlikely it would get remade, however, I now definitely want to try an old one!

vsbabolat
07-24-2010, 04:32 PM
I will guarantee that the T10 will not make a comeback; traditional graphite is a dead, and an unmarketable product in the USA--especially since many American players do not grow-up in clubs as they do in Europe, hence, technique suffers dramatically.
You all will have to be satisfied with post traditional graphite materials, and be happy for a future possible 16 main PB 10 MP.

Well the C10 Pro is still around and kicking with new cosmetics.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_C10_Pro/descpageRCVOLKL-C10P10.html
And so is the Pro Kennex Type C Redondo and Black Ace
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-KTCR.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-PKBA93.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-PKBA93.html

So there goes that theory. Oh and don't get me started on your fallacies of U.S. tennis. This not the time or the place.

morningglory75
07-25-2010, 04:11 AM
Well the C10 Pro is still around and kicking with new cosmetics.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_C10_Pro/descpageRCVOLKL-C10P10.html
And so is the Pro Kennex Type C Redondo and Black Ace
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-KTCR.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-PKBA93.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-PKBA93.html

So there goes that theory. Oh and don't get me started on your fallacies of U.S. tennis. This not the time or the place.

Facts....are not theories. Volkl will not be bringing back the T10.

The T10....is not a C10--which is not a new stick, nor does cosmetics make it so.

Volkl/BB....is not Kennex...DUH.

Fallacies?....now are we making mother' jokes or talking tennis?

vsbabolat
07-25-2010, 05:36 AM
Facts....are not theories. Volkl will not be bringing back the T10.

The T10....is not a C10--which is not a new stick, nor does cosmetics, make it so....DUH.

Volkl/BB....is not Kennex...DUH.

Fallacies?....are we talking mother' jokes or tennis?

Correct the C10 Pro is not a new racquet. It is a traditional Graphite racquet that has not gone out of production. Let me remind you what you said:
traditional graphite is a dead, and an unmarketable product in the USA.
Well the C10 Pro fits the bill. A soft flexible traditional Graphite racquet made of a composite of Graphite and Kevlar. Also there are other traditional graphite options by Pro Kennex, the Black Ace and the Type C Redondo. Both Traditional graphite racquets. And How could I forget the Prince Graphite Mid and Oversize. Still available right here at TW. All 7 racquets are being sold in the U.S.

So Voelkl will not bring back the Tour 10 because the C10 Pro fills niche (Traditional Graphite Racquet) in their line-up of racquets.

Your delustioal theories on American tennis are laughable. The funniest post in the whole thread. Thanks for the good laugh! You obviously no nothing about American Tennis.

morningglory75
07-25-2010, 06:16 AM
Correct the C10 Pro is not a new racquet. It is a traditional Graphite racquet that has not gone out of production. Let me remind you what you said:

Well the C10 Pro fits the bill. A soft flexible traditional Graphite racquet made of a composite of Graphite and Kevlar. Also there are other traditional graphite options by Pro Kennex, the Black Ace and the Type C Redondo. Both Traditional graphite racquets. And How could I forget the Prince Graphite Mid and Oversize. Still available right here at TW. All 7 racquets are being sold in the U.S.

So Voelkl will not bring back the Tour 10 because the C10 Pro fills niche (Traditional Graphite Racquet) in their line-up of racquets.

Your delustioal theories on American tennis are laughable. The funniest post in the whole thread. Thanks for the good laugh! You obviously no nothing about American Tennis.

Apparently, English is not your primary language, or perhaps, you need a good LD tutor.

At any rate, you shouldn't feel bad about your public parks tennis background, I meant no offense.

vsbabolat
07-25-2010, 08:16 AM
Apparently, English is not your primary language, or perhaps, you need a good LD tutor.

At any rate, you shouldn't feel bad about your public parks tennis background, I meant no offense.

Don't worry about it. I grew up playing tennis at Private Clubs. What you know about me or American Tennis is nothing. The U.S. is a very big country with a large tennis playing population. Making blanket statements about American Tennis only shows your arrogance.
American Tennis has a rich and successful history in Davis Cup and Grand Slam History even very recently. Technique in the U.S. is not suffering. There are many Tennis academies in Florida and South Carolina that Europeans come over and utilize.

Anyway The Tour 10 MP was not really a traditional graphite racquet as you say:I will guarantee that the T10 will not make a comeback; traditional graphite is a dead, and an unmarketable product in the USA.
The Tour 10 was marketed as having Titanium in the composite. http://web.archive.org/web/20030408070841/www.volkl.com/tennis/tour.sht Hardly traditional. Although many say the Titanium was there in name only. Who knows?? But there are still traditional graphite racquets for sale like the Voelkl C10 Pro, Pro Kennex the Black Ace, Pro Kennex Type C Redondo, and the Prince Graphite. So there are options in the U.S. if you want to buy a traditional Graphite racquet.

dParis
07-25-2010, 02:11 PM
Were the Scorchers/Crushers a long lost stock of frames recently discovered in a dark, dusty corner of some old warehouse - with fresh paint jobs? Why else bring back those older Tours?

When I saw those two coming out, along with the DC Legend - all with RAP - I thought there was a glimmer of hope that the irreplaceable, unassailable Tour 10 or something very close to it, would make an encore...

morningglory75
07-26-2010, 01:14 PM
Were the Scorchers/Crushers a long lost stock of frames recently discovered in a dark, dusty corner of some old warehouse - with fresh paint jobs? Why else bring back those older Tours?

When I saw those two coming out, along with the DC Legend - all with RAP - I thought there was a glimmer of hope that the irreplaceable, unassailable Tour 10 or something very close to it, would make an encore...

There is a market for traditional graphite frames in Europe, where the feel for these sticks can be utilized, since almost everyone who plays has skills derived from good instruction from specifically trained, college educated coaches. The Europeans are also more traditional regarding their equipment, and don't buy into the marketing hype as quickly as it is done here, and although, nano carbon frames allow you to do more with less, the feel is certainly different in the hand.

vsbabolat
07-26-2010, 07:13 PM
There is a market for traditional graphite frames in Europe, where the feel for these sticks can be utilized, since almost everyone who plays has skills derived from good instruction from specifically trained, college educated coaches. The Europeans are also more traditional regarding their equipment, and don't buy into the marketing hype as quickly as it is done here, and although, nano carbon frames allow you to do more with less, the feel is certainly different in the hand.

What a complete crock! Racquets companies market the racquets and the tech the same in the U.S. as they do in Europe. Babolat, HEAD, Voelkl, Prince, Wilson, Dunlop, Pacific, and Yonex to name a few. All market the latest and greatest technology.

What is the traditional graphite racquets being marketed in Europe and not in the U.S.? Because the U.S. still has the Voelkl C10 Pro, Pro Kennex Type C Redondo, Pro Kennex Black Ace, and the Prince Graphite.

I guess Babolat is not selling to many of the New GT line in Europe LOL. What nonsense you write.

Just a FWI the Scorcher is available in the U.S.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_Tour_Scorcher/descpageRCVOLKL-VTS.html

morningglory75
07-26-2010, 07:16 PM
What a complete crock! Racquets companies market the racquets and the tech the same in the U.S. as they do in Europe. Babolat, HEAD, Voelkl, Prince, Wilson, Dunlop, Pacific, and Yonex to name a few. All market the latest and greatest technology.

What is the traditional graphite racquets being marketed in Europe and not in the U.S.? Because the U.S. still has the Voelkl C10 Pro, Pro Kennex Type C Redondo, Pro Kennex Black Ace, and the Prince Graphite.

I guess Babolat is not selling to many of the New GT line in Europe LOL. What nonsense you write.

Just a FWI the Scorcher is available in the U.S.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_Tour_Scorcher/descpageRCVOLKL-VTS.html

Tell that to Volkl. I'm relaying their marketing strategy.

vsbabolat
07-26-2010, 07:23 PM
Tell that to Volkl. I'm relaying their marketing strategy.

Well the truth is Voelkl is selling the traditional C10 Pro in the U.S. with new cosmetics, the Scorcher, and the V1 Classic.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_C10_Pro/descpageRCVOLKL-C10P10.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_Tour_Scorcher/descpageRCVOLKL-VTS.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_V1_Classic_Midplus/descpageRCVOLKL-VCVN1.html
What you are saying is different than what Voelkl is actual doing.

morningglory75
07-26-2010, 07:41 PM
Well the truth is Voelkl is selling the traditional C10 Pro in the U.S. with new cosmetics, the Scorcher, and the V1 Classic.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_C10_Pro/descpageRCVOLKL-C10P10.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_Tour_Scorcher/descpageRCVOLKL-VTS.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_V1_Classic_Midplus/descpageRCVOLKL-VCVN1.html
What you are saying is different than what Voelkl is actual doing.

The discussion between dparis and I concerned the Scorcher/Crusher. PERIOD.

There are three traditional sticks being newly marketed internationally but not in the USA. The Scorcher is not released as a new traditional frame, but a lower price point introductory Volkl frame which happens to be just graphite, to make that price point. In addition, marketing older frames which are more than 24 months old are done to maintain the brand recognition, and no where near the same as marketing a new frame; it is as simple as ordering additional production by a simple e-mail or phone call by Volkl Command. Lastly, Volkl/BB, has zero relationship to Kennex or any other manufacturer that you have mentioned; their marketing strategies may or may not intersect, but they are certainly not arranged to do so.

If this doesn't clear-up your confusion, then as I earlier stated, I would recommend an LD specialist.

vsbabolat
07-27-2010, 04:40 AM
The discussion between dparis and I concerned the Scorcher/Crusher. PERIOD.

There are three traditional sticks being newly marketed internationally but not in the USA. The Scorcher is not released as a new traditional frame, but a lower price point introductory Volkl frame which happens to be just graphite, to make that price point. In addition, marketing older frames which are more than 24 months old are done to maintain the brand recognition, and no where near the same as marketing a new frame; it is as simple as ordering additional production by a simple e-mail or phone call by Volkl Command. Lastly, Volkl/BB, has zero relationship to Kennex or any other manufacturer that you have mentioned; their marketing strategies may or may not intersect, but they are certainly not arranged to do so.

If this doesn't clear-up your confusion, then as I earlier stated, I would recommend an LD specialist.

The racquets that are not being marketed in the U.S. by Voelkl are form the same line as the Scorcher. They are Price point racquets. The Contender, Crusher, and the Energy are NOT Traditional Graphite racquets. They are in the same category as the Scorcher!!! Also I don't see them on Voelkl's international website: http://www.voelkl-tennis.com/cms/front_content.php?idcat=23 I don't see them on Tennis-Warehouse EUROPE http://www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com/catpage-VOLRAC.htm
So let's talk about the Scorcher. That is a new price point frame that is being marketed in the U.S. So there was no reason for your previous rant again on the U.S. market and players in the U.S. It is baseless. The fact of matter is Voelkl does offer traditional graphite racquets in the U.S. as well as other manufacturers. If you can't understand that than you my friend need very badly to go back to school and take some reading comprehension courses. You are very confused about what is being sold on the U.S. tennis Market as well as Tennis players and Coaches in the U.S.

morningglory75
07-27-2010, 07:36 AM
The racquets that are not being marketed in the U.S. by Voelkl are form the same line as the Scorcher. They are Price point racquets. The Contender, Crusher, and the Energy are NOT Traditional Graphite racquets. They are in the same category as the Scorcher!!! Also I don't see them on Voelkl's international website: http://www.voelkl-tennis.com/cms/front_content.php?idcat=23 I don't see them on Tennis-Warehouse EUROPE http://www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com/catpage-VOLRAC.htm
So let's talk about the Scorcher. That is a new price point frame that is being marketed in the U.S. So there was no reason for your previous rant again on the U.S. market and players in the U.S. It is baseless. The fact of matter is Voelkl does offer traditional graphite racquets in the U.S. as well as other manufacturers. If you can't understand that than you my friend need very badly to go back to school and take some reading comprehension courses. You are very confused about what is being sold on the U.S. tennis Market as well as Tennis players and Coaches in the U.S.

Because you can't find them, that must mean that they don't exist; that's a serious psychological issue. Try the Volkl International Catalog.

You and I, OBVIOUSLY do not have a mutual frame of reference.

If you spent any time around any of us who work with nationally ranked juniors, ITF juniors, collegiate players, and pros, you would know that there is a universal concern about USA tennis, USA juniors and collegiate players' technique, many teaching pros lack of adequate skills who start off our children, lack of college team positions for USA players because of these issue, and emotionally out-of-control parents, juniors, and players--like you--who in many respects are the root cause of the issues. If you were really a player at this level--6.0 and above--or involved as a coach, official, manager, or USTA staff, you would know all of this information to be true--didn't you hear about the problems at the recent Boy's 14's SuperNats? The fact that you dispute what is known by all of us who are there, says it all.

With that being said, since we do some much to help students and adult players with issues such as yourself, the FINAL best advice and communication that I will offer you is this:

http: //www . ldanatl . org/

And don't forget, you drew first blood.

DONE...

OnyxZ28
07-27-2010, 07:44 AM
Like the TW batches of the PC600 and the POG, if TW (or someone else) places an order large enough (around ~1K pieces?) wouldn't Volkl whip up a SMU batch? I remember last time TW found some NOS T10G1MPs in the warehouse they sold out within hours.

morningglory75
07-27-2010, 07:52 AM
Like the TW batches of the PC600 and the POG, if TW (or someone else) places an order large enough (around ~1K pieces?) wouldn't Volkl whip up a SMU batch? I remember last time TW found some NOS T10G1MPs in the warehouse they sold out within hours.

You're correct....but Volkl is doing really well now, even in this economy. They gave an offer for all NOS last October, and then sold whatever was left to TW, who buy that NOS for almost nothing.

vsbabolat
07-27-2010, 09:39 AM
The Tour Energy
Head size 685cm2 | 106in2
Cross section 27 - 24 - 25mm
Weight 270g / 9.5oz
Length 68.5cm | 27in
Balance 33.0cm | 0.5in HL
String pattern 16 x 19
String tension 25 (+/- 2) kg /55 (+/- 5) lbs.

The Tour Contender
Head size 660cm2/ 102in2
Cross section 22.5mm
Weight 290g / 10.2oz
Length 68.5cm / 27in
Balance 32.0cm | 0.9in HL
String pattern 16 x 18
String tension 25 (+/- 2) kg / 55 (+/- 5)lbs

Tour Crusher
Head size 645cm2 | 100in2
Cross section 22.5mm
Weight 300g | 10.6oz
Length 70.0cm | 27.6in
Balance 32.0cm | 1.2HL
String pattern 16 x 18
String tension 25 (+/- 2) kp / 55 (+/- 5)lbs

These are in the same line as the Tour Scorcher. They are entry level price point frames. I don't consider them to be Traditional Graphite racquets. My definition of graphite racquet is: 85-98 headsize, 17-22mm beam width, at least 12 ounces strung, and with either a Graphite composite (Kevlar, Fiberglass, ceramic, boron, etc...), or just a Graphite epoxy resin composition. Certainly the C10 Pro fits that bill.


I do spend some time around Collegiate, Nationally Ranked Juniors, ITF players, and others. Thanks for asking! Again you know nothing about me. So stop guessing.

dozu
07-27-2010, 09:44 AM
the problem for Volkl is - once you achieved PERFECTION in gen 1, no matter what you do with gen 2,3,4.... you can only make it worse :)

I use the gen 1 mid, loved it so much, I have 6 of them.... set for life here :)

drakulie
07-27-2010, 10:28 AM
There is a market for traditional graphite frames in Europe, where the feel for these sticks can be utilized, since almost everyone who plays has skills derived from good instruction from specifically trained, college educated coaches. The Europeans are also more traditional regarding their equipment, and don't buy into the marketing hype as quickly as it is done here, and although, nano carbon frames allow you to do more with less, the feel is certainly different in the hand.

Hey, could you send me some of the Volkl products being sold in Europe?? I wanna play test them. I have been looking for a more traditional feel, being that I was taught classical music. I want to transcend this thought process of learning to a tennis court, and have been unable to do so with the equipment sold here in the US.

My email is drakulie@aol.com. From there, I will send you my shipping address.

Thanks in advance!

tball
07-27-2010, 06:45 PM
I am not sure about them being the price point racquets. Last time I checked, the Crusher (which I am interested in) was selling for 90 euro. This is about 120 USD. The same price as C10 here.

morningglory75
07-27-2010, 07:04 PM
Hey, could you send me some of the Volkl products being sold in Europe?? I wanna play test them. I have been looking for a more traditional feel, being that I was taught classical music. I want to transcend this thought process of learning to a tennis court, and have been unable to do so with the equipment sold here in the US.

My email is drakulie@aol.com. From there, I will send you my shipping address.

Thanks in advance!

CHECK UR EMAIL

drakulie
07-28-2010, 06:42 AM
CHECK UR EMAIL


Thanks for the follow-up. However, I have not received any emails.

Could you try again? Thanks in advance!

drakulie@aol.com

FloridaAG
07-28-2010, 07:23 AM
Good thing no one uses Babolat frames in Europe

Rabbit
07-28-2010, 07:35 AM
OK, so I'm confused now. I have various and asundry C10s from different times. They all play alike, no matter what they're made of. I was under the impression that while the prepreg, graphite, pencil lead, or whatever they make it from changes, the manufacturer can still build a frame to spec.

In other words, it doesn't matter what goes in because the manufacturer can tailor the flex of a racquet to play any and every way they want it to. Ergo, they can make the new stuff flex exactly like the old stuff. The difference being the new stuff lasts longer which lessens warrantly claims and increases profits. I have no idea if the new stuff costs more/less than the old stuff, but I would hazard a guess that it costs less as most production tends to go down with advances.

Where am I missing the proverbial boat?

morningglory75
07-28-2010, 09:29 AM
OK, so I'm confused now. I have various and asundry C10s from different times. They all play alike, no matter what they're made of. I was under the impression that while the prepreg, graphite, pencil lead, or whatever they make it from changes, the manufacturer can still build a frame to spec.

In other words, it doesn't matter what goes in because the manufacturer can tailor the flex of a racquet to play any and every way they want it to. Ergo, they can make the new stuff flex exactly like the old stuff. The difference being the new stuff lasts longer which lessens warrantly claims and increases profits. I have no idea if the new stuff costs more/less than the old stuff, but I would hazard a guess that it costs less as most production tends to go down with advances.

Where am I missing the proverbial boat?

Rabbit....glad to see you back. Where are we with the hairpin V10s? The C 10, is the C 10. There have been no changes over the 11 plus years. However, paint jobs will make a frame play different, if one's feel is good enough to discern that difference.

morningglory75
07-28-2010, 09:40 AM
Thanks for the follow-up. However, I have not received any emails.

Could you try again? Thanks in advance!

drakulie@aol.com

Perhaps your junk mail/spam folder? I have contacted Volkl Command for you and I am awaiting a response. I'll do what I can; I'm not a rep nor a retailer, but I can definitely help.

NBM
07-28-2010, 10:13 AM
Rabbit....glad to see you back. Where are we with the hairpin V10s? The C 10, is the C 10. There have been no changes over the 11 plus years. However, paint jobs will make a frame play different, if one's feel is good enough to discern that difference.

This is inaccurate. there have been changes in the c10 over the years. the frame has become stiffer over time, and perhaps the swingweight is even a little less. also when volkl went to their 'Pure Fibre' technology on the entire c series, all the c series frames played differently for a period of time because all those layups changed.
Paint jobs make the frame play differently? that's a good one...

morningglory75
07-28-2010, 10:19 AM
Paint jobs make the frame play differently? that's a good one...

This is a par for the course fact. Some players can feel the difference between 61lbs and 60.5 lbs. Different colors of the same string play differently, and that is also a par for the course fact, something that all players are cognizant of, whether or not they can feel the differences. Many players can feel the difference with as little .004 of and inch in grip size/shape, a well known fact for decades--ask Bosworth. Players will tell you that they can feel the difference when a stick is strung indoors or outdoors, and at different time of day, and some carry their sticks into restaurants, because they feel different and ruin string jobs, just by being left in the car for 30-45 minutes. It's a fact which cannot be attributed to psychosomatic illnesses among people who are or will be paying the monthly bills from their activities on a tennis court. It's a fact of tennis life, which apparently from your comments, you haven't experienced.

NBM
07-28-2010, 11:07 AM
I guess you don't have the feel to discern the difference.

Actually, now that you mention it, and i;ve had a moment to process, i think i do. This explains why i;ve never volleyed great with yellow frames painted with Dupont paint unless the yellow paint was made with burnt umber instead of raw umber..the burnt umber just makes the volley feel sooo crisp...I can volley well with yellow frames painted with Sherwin Williams paint provided the primer coat is black...any other colour just throws everything off for me. I better explain that I am joking.

morningglory75
07-28-2010, 12:00 PM
Actually, now that you mention it, and i;ve had a moment to process, i think i do. This explains why i;ve never volleyed great with yellow frames painted with Dupont paint unless the yellow paint was made with burnt umber instead of raw umber..the burnt umber just makes the volley feel sooo crisp...I can volley well with yellow frames painted with Sherwin Williams paint provided the primer coat is black...any other colour just throws everything off for me. I better explain that I am joking.

That's cool; I wasn't, and neither were the hundreds of players that I've worked with. Yours and my frame of reference is incongruous. Sorry.

morningglory75
07-28-2010, 12:50 PM
From Volkl Command: The C 10's construction and materials have remained 100% the same over the past 12 years.

vsbabolat
07-28-2010, 01:39 PM
From Volkl Command: The C 10's construction and materials have remained 100% the same over the past 12 years.

The same raw materials (Carbon Fiber) are not available from 12 years ago. I will let Racketdesign and Jame Blake explain:
Q. Kind of a tough situation if I have it right with your racquets. What's up? What's happening?
JAMES BLAKE: Oh, man. I don't know. I don't even it would be too long of a story to get into. My racquets feel great right now. I don't have that many of them left, so I'm hoping that I can find a way to get more of them and find someone that can make a racquet exactly the way I like it. It seems like I think it's just the modernization of the game that the racquets that are being made now don't feel the same as the ones when I started on tour. When I started, I think it was different materials. Using different materials, to me, feels a little more hollow, tinny. I guess the materials that are used are lighter and more powerful. For me it just doesn't it doesn't have the same feel. I never thought I was picky about racquets until I went through this situation where I'm trying to find one that's just like mine, and no one has been able to do it.
I'm really looking forward to putting this behind me and hopefully someone being able to make a racquet that I can use. We'll see if that happens soon.
http://www.bnpparibasopen.org/News/Tennis/2010/Interview-Transcripts/Interview-Transcripts/Extra-Column/James-Blake-First-Round.aspx
To keep it simple -

Hotmelt is where the resin is heated before being applied to the dry carbon cloth. Gives good uniformaty and saturation.

"Standard" prepreg is achieved by pulling the carbon through a cold resin bath. Prone to less consistant coverage and possible dry spots.

In many racquets, a combination of both materials are used.

The "feel" element comes from a variety of factors such as material mix percentages, layup design for each layer, Grade or quality of the raw carbon cloth.

Whilst some of the older grades of carbon are no longer available, its still possible to re-create the old school feel.. just costs a few more $$ and needs a bit more thought ;)

drakulie
07-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Perhaps your junk mail/spam folder? I have contacted Volkl Command for you and I am awaiting a response. I'll do what I can; I'm not a rep nor a retailer, but I can definitely help.


Nope. Nothing in my spam folder.

Help!!!!!!

Thanks in advance. Vamos!

Rabbit
07-29-2010, 07:03 AM
This is inaccurate. there have been changes in the c10 over the years. the frame has become stiffer over time, and perhaps the swingweight is even a little less. also when volkl went to their 'Pure Fibre' technology on the entire c series, all the c series frames played differently for a period of time because all those layups changed.
Paint jobs make the frame play differently? that's a good one...

Stiffer? Maybe, but not enough to alter the play of the frame. From inception through the latest, greatest, you can play with them interchangably with no adjustment due to the frame's properties.


Paint jobs do make a difference. A glossy paint finish will play stiffer than a matte one. This is well known. Also different string colors do play differently.

The old hotmelt were allegedly the best, for those who are conneseuirs of graphite. But, for an old fart 4.5 any and all will play just fine.

Rabbit
07-29-2010, 07:13 AM
The same raw materials (Carbon Fiber) are not available from 12 years ago. I will let Racketdesign and Jame Blake explain:
Q. Kind of a tough situation if I have it right with your racquets. What's up? What's happening?
JAMES BLAKE: Oh, man. I don't know. I don't even it would be too long of a story to get into. My racquets feel great right now. I don't have that many of them left, so I'm hoping that I can find a way to get more of them and find someone that can make a racquet exactly the way I like it. It seems like I think it's just the modernization of the game that the racquets that are being made now don't feel the same as the ones when I started on tour. When I started, I think it was different materials. Using different materials, to me, feels a little more hollow, tinny. I guess the materials that are used are lighter and more powerful. For me it just doesn't it doesn't have the same feel. I never thought I was picky about racquets until I went through this situation where I'm trying to find one that's just like mine, and no one has been able to do it.
I'm really looking forward to putting this behind me and hopefully someone being able to make a racquet that I can use. We'll see if that happens soon.
http://www.bnpparibasopen.org/News/Tennis/2010/Interview-Transcripts/Interview-Transcripts/Extra-Column/James-Blake-First-Round.aspx

It's kinda funny to me, a guy who uses a racquet strung with poly at 68 talking about not liking a tinny feel. :)

Once again though, great info. Keep keeping 'em straight!

HeavyDluxe
07-29-2010, 07:30 AM
Hey, could you send me some of the Volkl products being sold in Europe?? I wanna play test them. I have been looking for a more traditional feel, being that I was taught classical music. I want to transcend this thought process of learning to a tennis court, and have been unable to do so with the equipment sold here in the US.

This is pure WIN.

vsbabolat
07-29-2010, 08:10 AM
It's kinda funny to me, a guy who uses a racquet strung with poly at 68 talking about not liking a tinny feel. :)

Once again though, great info. Keep keeping 'em straight!

Thanks! I do have a original C10 Pro I got in 1998 with what you guys call the fishnet graphics. It is pristine. I was always surprised at the pop that racquet got with it also being so flexible. I should do a play test of the original and the latest cosmetic on the C10 Pro and see if I can tell any difference.

andre1717
07-29-2010, 08:36 AM
Ive seen advertised a quantum tour racket by volkl but not sure of the model ?! about half the head is red the rest black and the throat is black. I dont know how to upload the pic . Anyone recognise this description please. thanks

drakulie
07-30-2010, 05:33 AM
From Volkl Command: The C 10's construction and materials have remained 100% the same over the past 12 years.


hello, hope you are well.

I'm still waiting for the equipment you promised. Haven't received any emails from Volkl. Are they currently open, or perhaps since it's the summer they are on vacation? Not sure how the schedule over in Europe works during this time of year.

Thanks!

FloridaAG
07-30-2010, 05:44 AM
hello, hope you are well.

I'm still waiting for the equipment you promised. Haven't received any emails from Volkl. Are they currently open, or perhaps since it's the summer they are on vacation? Not sure how the schedule over in Europe works during this time of year.

Thanks!

How do you say siesta in German?

tcjackson
07-30-2010, 06:12 AM
I've been a Volkl fan for many years and still find their best offering is the original Tour 10 MP. it has the power, stability, feel and maneuverability and well it's their best racquet ever. I've tried all 10 series since the V-engine (except the new Powerbridges) and a few older models.

I originally started with the Tour 10 Gen 2 and it was great, as it got rid of my tennis elbow, but it lacked a little power. I loved the V-engine 10 MP, but it brought back my tennis elbow. The V-E 10 mid was too much stick for me. The DNX Mid was too flexy in the throat, but everything else was great. Has the Powerbridge Mid 10 fixed this? the C10 Pro Tour is great, but I just cannot handle this everyday. Serves bombs though. The C7 Comp; best feeling stick ever and I love hitting this, but I feel like I pound the ball and it keeps coming back to me harder. DNX Mid+ just doesn't work as I just don't like the feel off the tight string pattern. I find the Becker 11 to be much better and I like hitting this frame. The C10 Pro is my next favourite, but it still lacks some stability and the overall control of the Gen 1.

The Gen 1 MP is simply the best! Please make this again. NOW!

I have used several different Volkl players racquets ove the years and I can tell you that the current PB10 Mid is well worth trying. It doesn't have quite the plowthrough of the C10 PT but you can also swing it all day without getting tired. It is very close in feel to the 10 V engine but with more spin capability due to the 16 main pattern. The PB10 Mid is a very comfortable frame and shouldn't give you any elbow pain unless you do something silly stringwise.
I used the C10 PT for many years and still like to hit with it occasionally. It is probably the best feeling racquet I have ever used. Much more solid than the C10 Pro. But the weight just wears me down by the end of a match.

I really don't think you can go wrong with the PB 10 Mid. I recently strung one with NXT Tour 17 (60#) and it was the sweetest ride I've ever had. I just wish that string wasn't so expensive.

sargeinaz
01-31-2012, 03:14 PM
I just asked TW to see if they could get Volkl to make a batch of the Tour 10 MP Gen 1 in the Questions/Comments section. Maybe if enough people show interest it could happen!