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Jakedasnake
08-07-2010, 08:34 PM
Ok I know how this sounds, but I'm confused on tying knots. In YUL's videos, after the last main, he clamps, and then does the pull and rock back with the parnell knot to tighten the rest of the string. However, this guide says to pull the string through they tie-off grommet with the tensioner? which method is correct? thanks!

YUL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWx3iVPZl_c
The guide i was reading: http://www.stringforum.net/stringingguide.php

drakulie
08-07-2010, 08:50 PM
Go with the method in Yulitles vid. Also, you could use this method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDwAnjSYcxQ

You shouldn't really use the tensioner to tighten the knot.

Good luck!

Irvin
08-07-2010, 08:51 PM
You are reading something I did not see on stringforum. After looking at the pictures for knots though on that page I must admit I did not look much further.

Stick with YULitle's method.

Irvin

drakulie
08-07-2010, 08:55 PM
After looking at the pictures for knots though on that page I must admit I did not look much further.



LOL. Me neither. :)

struggle
08-07-2010, 09:12 PM
^^^ agreed. listen to these guys!

and while i learned to tighten the knots with pliers
(without snapping the string!!), the starting clamp is
great for this, thanks again Irvin!

BobFL
08-07-2010, 09:44 PM
Ok I know how this sounds, but I'm confused on tying knots. In YUL's videos, after the last main, he clamps, and then does the pull and rock back with the parnell knot to tighten the rest of the string. However, this guide says to pull the string through they tie-off grommet with the tensioner? which method is correct? thanks!

YUL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWx3iVPZl_c
The guide i was reading: http://www.stringforum.net/stringingguide.php

Man, one friendly advice from me - don't overthink it :) Seriously, I have never read a single article or watched any video about knots. I just used one of knots I learned probably 15 years ago (actually it was used on ships). It is beyond simple. If I could do it, anyone can do it.

struggle
08-07-2010, 10:19 PM
Go with the method in Yulitles vid. Also, you could use this method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDwAnjSYcxQ

You shouldn't really use the tensioner to tighten the knot.

Good luck!

ok, i'm not really seeing a big difference between the cam clamp and tensioning with the head (i just tie/tighten it by hand/tool).

i've done neither (i have no cam clamp), BUT if i were to do it it seems
i could achieve the same thing with the TH pulled at less than lockout tension (or turned down). agreed, it would require more string or a bridge.

i'll still be hand tightening anyhow, just curious.

thx

Lakers4Life
08-07-2010, 11:48 PM
On a side note: I was at a local chain sports store recently, and noticed all of the Pre-Strung Prince rackets were all tied with Parnell Knots.

Ash_Smith
08-08-2010, 12:59 AM
Pull your knots either using the see-saw motion as advised by Yulitle in his video or you can use a roatating motion as advised by the UKRSA (basically achieves the same as Yulitle's method). Use a starting clamp for better grip or if you have to some very smoooth pliers! Also, release your clamp before you trim the tail - the last thing you want to do is trim the knot and have it come undone as you release the clamp and the knot beds in with the tension pulling back!

Ash

mikeler
08-08-2010, 08:14 AM
Pull your knots either using the see-saw motion as advised by Yulitle in his video or you can use a roatating motion as advised by the UKRSA (basically achieves the same as Yulitle's method). Use a starting clamp for better grip or if you have to some very smoooth pliers! Also, release your clamp before you trim the tail - the last thing you want to do is trim the knot and have it come undone as you release the clamp and the knot beds in with the tension pulling back!

Ash


Great advice about releasing the clamp first before trimming the knot. I've been a victim of this when I am rushing too much. Like Drakulie said, don't use the tensioner. You'll probably end up busting the knot and having to start over.

Irvin
08-08-2010, 09:11 AM
Ok I know how this sounds, but I'm confused on tying knots. In YUL's videos, after the last main, he clamps, and then does the pull and rock back with the parnell knot to tighten the rest of the string. However, this guide says to pull the string through they tie-off grommet with the tensioner? which method is correct? thanks!

YUL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWx3iVPZl_c
The guide i was reading: http://www.stringforum.net/stringingguide.php

I went back to your second site again and starting reading to find out where you got that he was tensioning knots with the tensioner. I got down to the part where he said, "Usually the main strings are pulled one row at a time. For better convenience, I always pull two mains at once..." Enough said I didn't bother reading any more.

I think what he may have said is that he pulls the string through the grommet with the tensioner like 'drakulie' did with the cam action pliers but I had lost all confidence in that link when I got the the double pulling.

Irvin

struggle
08-08-2010, 11:13 AM
On a side note: I was at a local chain sports store recently, and noticed all of the Pre-Strung Prince rackets were all tied with Parnell Knots.


so can we re-name it the china knot now?

haha, i play prince and use the parnell. the china man!

no offense meant to our china folk!!

have a fun day!

Xenakis
08-08-2010, 11:15 AM
The YULitle video is definitely on the money, I had some trouble getting poly knots tight but that method sorted it.

I could do with getting a bit better at the getting the mains and crosses tie offs to sit more neatly in the grommet though, not found any info on that (the starting cross knot is fine as it pulls itself into the grommet).

Jakedasnake
08-08-2010, 11:31 AM
All right guys thanks that was really helpful! Just one last question, why does the guy have an awl sticking throught the tie-off grommet? http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1066/knot1.jpg

Irvin
08-08-2010, 11:36 AM
The YULitle video is definitely on the money, I had some trouble getting poly knots tight but that method sorted it.

I could do with getting a bit better at the getting the mains and crosses tie offs to sit more neatly in the grommet though, not found any info on that (the starting cross knot is fine as it pulls itself into the grommet).

I think it was Ash that provided some info on that just the other day. Forgive me if it was not Ash. Someone suggested tugging on the string to equalize pressure.

Here is your problem you are using Poly (probably co-poly but does not matter) which is a stiff string. It is also not very resilent which means it does not want to drawback as much as a more resilent string to pull the knot into the grommet when the clamp is released. And don't get me wrong that is not a bad thing I would leave it like that. But if you tug on the string a bit you could pull the knot into the grommet more. Then it will look the way you want but the string you tied off will be at a lower tension.

You don't get anything for nothing you know.

Irvin

struggle
08-08-2010, 11:38 AM
All right guys thanks that was really helpful! Just one last question, why does the guy have an awl sticking throught the tie-off grommet? http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1066/knot1.jpg

if he pulled tension on the string through the grommet, the awl is jammed in there to hold the tension while tieing off.

Irvin
08-08-2010, 11:50 AM
if he pulled tension on the string through the grommet, the awl is jammed in there to hold the tension while tieing off.

Okay why are there three strings in the grommet hole not to mention that awl pushed in about 2"? Looks to me like that grommet hole is going to be so big the knot will slip through. You don't think he has that hole stretched out too much do you? LMAO I would stay away from that site.

Irvin

polski
08-08-2010, 11:56 AM
if he pulled tension on the string through the grommet, the awl is jammed in there to hold the tension while tieing off.

You'll want to do that. 99% of the time, there is room in the tie off grommet for more than 2 string passes. Unless you're stringing a frame for it's first time & it has small grommet holes at the tie off, you need to fill the gap to keep it from losing tension, especially with any soft strings.

Jakedasnake
08-08-2010, 11:57 AM
if he pulled tension on the string through the grommet, the awl is jammed in there to hold the tension while tieing off.

haha, ok i didn't know you could do that. I never touch my awl except for replacing grommets.

polski
08-08-2010, 11:58 AM
Okay why are there three strings in the grommet hole not to mention that awl pushed in about 2"? Looks to me like that grommet hole is going to be so big the knot will slip through. You don't think he has that hole stretched out too much do you? LMAO I would stay away from that site.

Irvin

good point irvin. that frame needs a new grommet set after that guy gets done with it.

Ash_Smith
08-08-2010, 12:04 PM
I think Rick (Drakulie) posted a vid a while back explaining how to properly use an awl to hold tension.

Why that photo has the string coming through the grommet from the outside twice (at least that's how it looks!) - surely that would have the string wrapped around the frame?

And yes, it was me that started the thread on equalising the dynamic tension by pulling the strings - this will have a knock on effect of pulling in any slack in the knots. On that topic, sadly my new ERT has been delayed in transit (until monday apparently) so I haven't been able to follow up on the concept with some actual data.

Ash

Irvin
08-08-2010, 12:16 PM
haha, ok i didn't know you could do that. I never touch my awl except for replacing grommets.

It makes for a good ice pick. I do not even like it for replacing grommets, it is made of too soft of a metal and I am forever sticking myself with that point. I keep telling myself I am going to get a better awl.

Irvin

Lakers4Life
08-08-2010, 01:12 PM
All right guys thanks that was really helpful! Just one last question, why does the guy have an awl sticking throught the tie-off grommet? http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1066/knot1.jpg

The stringing instruction you got the picture from is on a few sites, not just String Forum. Some of the techniques are a bit dated.

Lakers4Life
08-08-2010, 01:16 PM
so can we re-name it the china knot now?

haha, i play prince and use the parnell. the china man!

no offense meant to our china folk!!

have a fun day!

I'm just surprised to see a Parnell knot used buy the factory. Usually I see "double hitch" knots and "figure 8" knots on many factory strung rackets.

Irvin
08-08-2010, 01:39 PM
I'm just surprised to see a Parnell knot used buy the factory. Usually I see "double hitch" knots and "figure 8" knots on many factory strung rackets.

I assume you have not looked at the Wilson pre-strung rackets. You won't see either.

Irvin

Lakers4Life
08-08-2010, 03:27 PM
I assume you have not looked at the Wilson pre-strung rackets. You won't see either.

Irvin

Here is picture of the tie-off knot on a factory strung Wilson nCode n5.
http://i36.tinypic.com/vsgete.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/9u83nk.jpg

Irvin
08-08-2010, 04:20 PM
Here is picture of the tie-off knot on a factory strung Wilson nCode n5

Makes me wonder why they did not use the Wilson Pro knot like most pre-strung Wilson rackets.

Irvin

Lakers4Life
08-08-2010, 08:28 PM
Looks like a Standard Tie-off knot or a Double Half Hitch knot.

jim e
08-09-2010, 04:32 AM
Looks like a Standard Tie-off knot or a Double Half Hitch knot.

It looks like that to me as well.It is not the Parnell, and looks like a double hh.
A Parnell has the tail setting right against the frame with the loop holding it there, where on these pictures there is a loop between the tail and the frame, just like a double half hitch.It is a double hh.
As far as using an awl, if you know how to properly cinch up a knot, there is no reason to use an awl for knot tying, especially if you string enough nat. gut, you are asking for trouble when it is not necessary.

Irvin
08-09-2010, 04:38 AM
The more I look at that knot the more I think it is a double half hitch (http://s3.amazonaws.com/curbly_uploads_production/photos/0000/0005/8597/knots_9_double_half_hitch.jpg). But this one is tied correct. Most people tie their double half hitch backwards (the knot on the right in the picture) which causes the outside knot to come lose.

Irvin