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polski
08-08-2010, 01:27 PM
I recently played in a 4.0 singles tournament where I lost the 1st round to the top seeded player (with a 33-2 tournament record who is ranked #2 in the state). I went on to win the consolation draw with two straight-set wins over other ranked players.

The result was that I earned 20 ranking points for going 2-1 over the weekend. After two tournaments I have played this year I am 4-2 overall & ranked #51 in the state (up from 56). A player that I just beat in a league match 6-2, 6-1 is ranked #16 with an overall record of 3-3 in tournaments.

Does anyone else think that "Significant Win Points" should apply to NTRP tournaments as well? They award them in juniors when you beat a top 50, 40, 30, 20, or 10 opponent. Why not adults?

I just feel like I am getting jobbed for going 2-1 over the weekend and my reward was just 20 points. I play for the respect from my peers and I think the only way to really get that is through rankings. Anyone else agree?

Sherlock
08-08-2010, 01:45 PM
Winning 2 matches in a consolation draw is typically (though not always) as good as winning 1 match in a main draw (unless the 1 win was over a not very good player). The players in the consolation draw are all typically in the bottom half of the rating spread, whereas the players still in the winner's bracket are more towards the top half.

Quality points would probably not be a good idea because adult tournaments and rankings are not as deep as junior tournaments. The top players in the adult rankings are usually predicated off of who plays the most tournaments. In the juniors, the best players are usually near the top.

polski
08-08-2010, 02:07 PM
Well, I got 10 points for each win, both straight sets...but neither was easy & the opponents were ranked higher than me. I think even a tiered point system where the more consolation matches you win, the greater the point value.

What about a system with win points like:

CQ - 10 points for win
CS - 30 " " "
CF - 50 " " "

or something similar? Wouldn't that be an indication of a player's overall ability?

I like playing tournaments (great excercise / great competition) & I would play more if I could get my ranking to a point where I get seeded most of the time. However, if the luck of the draw puts me up against players with 33-2 records in the first round every time, that could take years getting 10 points per win.

Footnote: This seeded players only 2 losses were to the guy ranked #1

MNPlayer
08-09-2010, 06:28 AM
Well, I got 10 points for each win, both straight sets...but neither was easy & the opponents were ranked higher than me. I think even a tiered point system where the more consolation matches you win, the greater the point value.

What about a system with win points like:

CQ - 10 points for win
CS - 30 " " "
CF - 50 " " "

or something similar? Wouldn't that be an indication of a player's overall ability?

I like playing tournaments (great excercise / great competition) & I would play more if I could get my ranking to a point where I get seeded most of the time. However, if the luck of the draw puts me up against players with 33-2 records in the first round every time, that could take years getting 10 points per win.

Footnote: This seeded players only 2 losses were to the guy ranked #1

I've played a number of 4.0 tournaments. Including a few run by Sherlock, which are great by the way! I've gotten "good" draws and "bad" draws. As long as there is a consolation bracket I try not to worry about it too much because I'll get at least 2 matches. When I was not seeded I thought it sucked to have to play an extra round. Now that I am in the top 10 I am always seeded and often have to play a good player in my first match as a result. So there is a downside to being a seed from that point of view.

If you play enough tournaments you will win some main draw matches and get some points just by luck of the draw. Most likely, this will get you a sufficient ranking to start getting seeded. In my section, there are only 10 or 20 guys that play a lot of tournaments and they obviously don't all enter each one. Luckily there are enough guys that just play one or two tournaments a year to make it interesting. I've only played the same guy more than once a couple of times over the last year.

polski
08-09-2010, 11:59 AM
I've played a number of 4.0 tournaments. Including a few run by Sherlock, which are great by the way! I've gotten "good" draws and "bad" draws. As long as there is a consolation bracket I try not to worry about it too much because I'll get at least 2 matches. When I was not seeded I thought it sucked to have to play an extra round. Now that I am in the top 10 I am always seeded and often have to play a good player in my first match as a result. So there is a downside to being a seed from that point of view.

If you play enough tournaments you will win some main draw matches and get some points just by luck of the draw. Most likely, this will get you a sufficient ranking to start getting seeded. In my section, there are only 10 or 20 guys that play a lot of tournaments and they obviously don't all enter each one. Luckily there are enough guys that just play one or two tournaments a year to make it interesting. I've only played the same guy more than once a couple of times over the last year.

So I guess I just need to be patient. That's just never been my thing.:cry:

I do always try to enter tournaments with FMLC. If I'm paying $40+ for an entry fee, I want more than 1 match. However, the larger sectional tournaments are usually just SE around us in South Carolina. I'd like to enter them, but I don't want to pay a huge entry fee just to get beat in the 1st round and be done playing for the weekend.

Sherlock
08-09-2010, 03:32 PM
So I guess I just need to be patient. That's just never been my thing.:cry:

I do always try to enter tournaments with FMLC. If I'm paying $40+ for an entry fee, I want more than 1 match. However, the larger sectional tournaments are usually just SE around us in South Carolina. I'd like to enter them, but I don't want to pay a huge entry fee just to get beat in the 1st round and be done playing for the weekend.

Yes, you do need to be patient. By the sound of it you have played in 2 tournaments so far. I would say after 10 tournaments you'll have had a couple decent draws, and then it's just a matter of capitalizing on the opportunities. If you convert those opportunities and get a few main draw wins, your ranking will shoot up and it will make it far easier to get a seed later on.

polski
08-19-2010, 10:12 AM
Well, my next tournament is here. Draw is posted. Same 1st round opponent for me...errrghhhh

Carlito
08-19-2010, 10:32 AM
Some states have very strange ranking systems. In SoCal its all about who you beat. There are some people in the top 20 that barely have winning records. I have actually won tournaments as the number one seed and have my ranking drop the following week. Year end rankings mean a little more. You can get pretty high on the seeding list by playing just 2 tournaments if you beat the right guy.

goober
08-19-2010, 10:35 AM
Well, my next tournament is here. Draw is posted. Same 1st round opponent for me...errrghhhh

Just keep playing tournaments and you will get seeded based on point accumulation. In my experience, seedings don't make that much of a difference in NTRP tourneys. They will keep you playing other seeded players early on, but there are a ton of players that are unseeded that play in a tournament or 2 a year but can easily win them or make it deep into the later rounds.

polski
08-19-2010, 10:43 AM
Just keep playing tournaments and you will get seeded based on point accumulation. In my experience, seedings don't make that much of a difference in NTRP tourneys. They will keep you playing other seeded players early on, but there are a ton of players that are unseeded that play in a tournament or 2 a year but can easily win them or make it deep into the later rounds.

I normally figure I am one of those guys that can play 1 or 2 per year & make a run - I did that a few years back. But, this guy is really good (he's on a 16 match win streak) & beat me 0 & 3 last time we played. That was the only match I have taken a bagel in a set in the last 3 years in a NTRP match.

Do I think I can beat him? Sure. However, I have to play at my highest level the entire match & hope his level drops a little. I'd like to play him later in the draw after a confidence builder or two.

On the plus side, he's a really good guy. He plays hard, plays fair, and has fun. Regardless of the outcome, I'll have a good time.

cll30
08-19-2010, 08:18 PM
I've only played the same guy more than once a couple of times over the last year.
One summer I drew the same first round opponent in 3 consecutive tournaments. He won the first match in straight sets. He won the second one in 3 tough sets. For the third one he didn't show up.

Jim A
08-22-2010, 12:49 PM
they have them but nothing for losses, if you beat an player ranked in the top 20 in a main draw, based on the rankings at the time of your match, you'll get the points. The last tournament I won included 35 SW points, 20 for beating the top ranked player and another 15 for someone who was in the top 5/10

polski
08-22-2010, 01:08 PM
Well, I lost 1st round 0 & 2 to the #1. We were the last match of the night on Friday & he was nice enough to stay and hit with me after for an extra 30 minutes and we played a fun tiebreaker...yes, he won that too.

I then won the consolation bracket with 2 & 3, and 0 & 2 wins. I beat a guy 0 & 2 in the CF that is currently ranked #16.

I continue my slow tread up the rankings ladder...next tournament in September. That one is single elimination so I really hope I don't get the same opponent again.

polski
10-28-2010, 05:59 PM
Finally I am able to play a tournament this weekend (Sept didn't pan out). It's a fairly small one & my ranking in the state has increased to #34, mostly by attrition it seems. Apparantly that is enough of a ranking to get me the #1 seed at this one. In the 6-man draw, I am geting a bye to the semis. Curious as to how that will work out for me.

One thing I don't get is how a guy currently ranked #12 is in the event, yet didn't get seeded...note: this is the same player that I beat 0 & 2 in August when he was #16.