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View Full Version : Miami Heat = overrated?


Falloutjr
08-09-2010, 09:00 AM
Yes, we all know about the big 3 in Miami. LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. But if you compare them to the Lakers, you'll see that it's closer than it would appear. Let's take a look at the starting 5 first.

PG: Derek Fisher vs. Mario Chalmers

Obviously, the edge goes to Fisher here. Fisher is more experienced, a very talented defender, and has the leadership to handle the ego of Bryant and garner his respect. Chalmers is a young guy. How is he gonna respond when he has only one ball to give 3 superstars who were ballhogs at best on their respective teams? Not to mention that LeBron and Wade were primary ballhandlers on their teams anyways. 3 people can't all be holding the ball. LeBron's off the ball skills are poor and Wade's isn't much better.

SG: Kobe Bryant vs. Dwyane Wade

Slight edge to Bryant here. Bryant has a better mid/3-point shot than Wade, and Bryant has the focus to make shots when he's being guarded extremely well. Very close, but still goes to Bryant.

SF: Ron Artest vs. LeBron James

LeBron, no explanation needed.

PF: Pau Gasol vs. Chris Bosh

This one is a bit closer, but I think Pau is the better overall player. Bosh got 24 ppg and 10 rpg because there was no one else there to pick up his slack, he was the only guy who could score in Toronto. Pau has phenomenal defense and a good mid range game. Bosh is too much of a mental midget, I don't think he can thrive in Miami with James and Bosh

C: Andrew Bynum vs. Zydrunas Ilgaulskus

This one definitely goes to Bynum. Bynum is coming off an injury, but he's still a top 3 center in the league. Z in his prime was a top 6 center, and he's far past his prime. Better range, but not much else in his favor. Best suited to draw bigs from the lane and let the other superstars get better drive opportunities.

Bench:

I like the bench of the Heat. They have veteran presence, they have solid rebounders, good defense, good shooting. Still lack a quality backup PG, which can be a problem, as shown by the Magic a couple years back. Still not feeling their center-by-committee plan. Big Z, Haslem, and Howard are good bench players and roleplayers, but they're not starter level players, with the exception of maybe Haslem, who is undersized to play C. Bosh has shown no interest in playing against centers and their interior defense will be poor at best this season.

I also like the Lakers bench, not quite as much as the Heat, but I do like it. They also have versatility. They have a good backup PG in Farmar, have good shooting, and have a starter caliber PF in Lamar Odom, who, when on his game, is just as good as Gasol.

There are still flaws with the Heat that will keep them back until addressed. The two most important positions in this game are PG and C, both of which the Heat lack. Poor interior defense and poor off-the-ball skills will being their PPG down. The mere fact that they simply have more talent than most teams will result in a lot of wins. I still see them being a 65 win team, but I don't see them getting through the Lakers. They're too big, and they are versatile enough to go three bigs, which is the major flaw of the Heat.

My prediction: Lakers beat Heat in Finals, 4-2.

jamesblakefan#1
08-09-2010, 09:19 AM
I think you meant Artest, not Ariza.

Heat will not make it to the finals, they will lose to either the Celtics or the Magic.

r2473
08-09-2010, 09:23 AM
You do realize that:

NBA = All Star Wrestling

Falloutjr
08-09-2010, 10:16 AM
I think you meant Artest, not Ariza.

Heat will not make it to the finals, they will lose to either the Celtics or the Magic.

Yeah, had a brain fart, was thinking 08 lakers lol. Either way, LeBron >>> Artest.

EDIT: Magic could realistically beat the Heat. Celtics won't come close.

hollywood9826
08-09-2010, 10:28 AM
Fallout, if the heat primarily use that lineup then I agree with you. But they didnt even attempt to a decent packup or starting PG which menas only one thing will happen with this Heat team.

Who was the Starting PG for the Showtime lakers coached by Pat Riley? Magic. Well they will use Lebron like Magic. Lebron wants to be the creater to begin with. heat linep will look somethingliek this

PG/SG - Lebron
PG/SG - Wade
SF - Bosh (will play more on the wing where he can utlize his speed over buigger guys and lentght over smaller guys)
PF - Haslem (play D and get boards, if your open make a 10foot jumper)
C - Z (Play D and get boards if your open pass it back to Lebron or Wade and reset the offense).

They have some size on the Bench also. And if Butlers leg heals 100% his skillset at WVU will let him be the 6th man with ebergy off the bench for 15-20 mins a game.

The lineup is so big I dont see how any can matchup. The Magic are close, and I liekd theier team two years ago with Hedo running the Offense better than than the team they got now.

SuperFly
08-09-2010, 10:59 AM
Heat= 0-82 in 2010-2011 season.

jamesblakefan#1
08-09-2010, 10:59 AM
Yeah, had a brain fart, was thinking 08 lakers lol. Either way, LeBron >>> Artest.

EDIT: Magic could realistically beat the Heat. Celtics won't come close.

I dunno. Rondo would be the X factor in any series between the two teams. He really is a game changer at PG, a position Miami is weak at. And if Pierce, Allen, and Garnett still have one last run left in them, they are definite competition for Miami. MIA would likely win in 6 or 7, but the C's are not a pushover IMO.

emcee143
08-09-2010, 11:20 AM
Farmar isn't with the Lakers anymore. And you forgot to mention the Heat's pickup of Mike Miller or the addition of Eddie House for backup PG.

The Heat won't do too well until they learn how to put their egos aside. Although they are friends, it will take time to get used to not being the star obviously, and by that time, the chance to break the wins record will be gone.

decades
08-09-2010, 11:34 AM
as much as I hate saying this they might underrated.

Falloutjr
08-09-2010, 11:51 AM
I regard Mike Miller as a shooting specialist and House as a Defender/shooter. House in his days with the Celtics was a shooter and a strong defender and I don't think he's strong suited to play anything other than the 3 or as a big 2 from time to time. Mike miller is a spot up shooter, he is not a PG. Never has been never will be. If lebron goes back to playing PG like he did back when he was in middle school/HS then yeah that would take care of one of their major problems, but they still don't have any interior defense, which could be exposed by the Magic if Van Gundy would get his head out of his *** and run some plays for Howard. There's no way they could get around it against the lakers.

Brettolius
08-09-2010, 12:38 PM
EDIT: Magic could realistically beat the Heat. Celtics won't come close.
Remember that that Celtics would have crushed the Lakers in the finals if Ray Allen made even a few of those jumpers!

Falloutjr
08-09-2010, 12:41 PM
Remember that that Celtics would have crushed the Lakers in the finals if Ray Allen made even a few of those jumpers!

But the Celtics didn't have poor matchups against the Lakers. The Lakers are to the Heat as Nadal is to Federer.

hollywood9826
08-09-2010, 01:09 PM
I think the Heat match up great with the Lakers with thier big lineup.

Lakers dont have a PG that can guard Wade. Kobe will have to guard Lebron and kill himself on the defensive end and not be superfresh at the end of games.

So who guards Bosh? Either Pau tries or they put Artest on him. Pau doesnt have the quickness to guard him on the wing and Arest doesnt have the size to stop Bosh in the post.

So Bynum will Have Z and dexter Pittman's large body to keep Bynum in check (if his knee holds up).

The heat with that lineup have a huge advantage over the Lakers. Lebron = Kobe, Wade > Lakers PG, Bosh > Artest. Pau isnt good enough to overcome that.

The Heat big line up will crush. Lebron will be unstoppable playing PG nobody can guard him. They cant double him when he penetrates without Lebron finding open man. I dot see how they lose. They got guys who can hit open jumpers and good role players down low for D and rebounds.

jamesblakefan#1
08-09-2010, 02:20 PM
I think the Heat match up great with the Lakers with thier big lineup.

Lakers dont have a PG that can guard Wade. Kobe will have to guard Lebron and kill himself on the defensive end and not be superfresh at the end of games.

So who guards Bosh? Either Pau tries or they put Artest on him. Pau doesnt have the quickness to guard him on the wing and Arest doesnt have the size to stop Bosh in the post.

So Bynum will Have Z and dexter Pittman's large body to keep Bynum in check (if his knee holds up).

The heat with that lineup have a huge advantage over the Lakers. Lebron = Kobe, Wade > Lakers PG, Bosh > Artest. Pau isnt good enough to overcome that.

The Heat big line up will crush. Lebron will be unstoppable playing PG nobody can guard him. They cant double him when he penetrates without Lebron finding open man. I dot see how they lose. They got guys who can hit open jumpers and good role players down low for D and rebounds.

Artest guards either of LeBron or Wade, more than likely LeBron w/ Kobe guarding Wade. Kobe's underrated on D and we all know what Artest brings on the defensive side. Pau and Bynum can shut down Bosh and force him to be a perimeter player. Ilgauskus is washed up and has never been a dominant post player, Pittman is unproven. Lakers have more than enough to stop the Heat.

CCNM
08-09-2010, 03:16 PM
Heat= 0-82 in 2010-2011 season.

ha ha ha! given all the hoopla that would be funny! BTW what's the difference between a "small" forward and a "power" forward?

NickH87
08-09-2010, 03:23 PM
Dont forget about the celtics, they have some good bigmen as well and thats what you need to win a championship. I see the heat in the conference finals against the celtics. Obviously lakers have retooled to make another run at a championship and are favorites to make it to the finals again. Matt barnes is a solid defender off the bench, they resigned brown, then you still have LO and a vet in theo ratliff who isnt afraid to be physical with a smaller heat bench.

hollywood9826
08-09-2010, 04:10 PM
Artest guards either of LeBron or Wade, more than likely LeBron w/ Kobe guarding Wade. Kobe's underrated on D and we all know what Artest brings on the defensive side. Pau and Bynum can shut down Bosh and force him to be a perimeter player. Ilgauskus is washed up and has never been a dominant post player, Pittman is unproven. Lakers have more than enough to stop the Heat.

If Kobe, Artest, Pau, and Bynum are on the court, whos the other guy? Who play point? Is it Fisher or Farmar? Who do they guard?

The Heat when they go with the big Lineup nobody can match up with them. No PG can guard LeBron beacuse hes too big, no PF can guard lebron becasue hes to fast. Wade is faster than everyone in the league already. Bosh also has a quick first step and is more than capable of playing the wing where very few PFs have the lateral quickness to D him up. But when the put a smaller guy on Bosh he can use his lenght to post up.

Z and Haslem and Pitman and who ever else they play at PF and C are there to take up space and grab rebounds. Wade and Lebron will be all over the place playing help D and cusing havoc.

If the Heat play the Big Lineup with Lebron in the Magic Johnson role, which all signs point to I dont see how they can lose in a 7 game series. They just cant be stopped unless one of those guys gets hurt.

hollywood9826
08-09-2010, 04:15 PM
ha ha ha! given all the hoopla that would be funny! BTW what's the difference between a "small" forward and a "power" forward?

SF would mainly play on the wings and create shots with there quickness, but are usally a bit bigger than a shooting guard, and can go down load if needed. SFs are usally yourt mot versatile player think of Scottie Pippen as your prototypical SF.


PF usually posts up and scores and rebounds down low, but can go outside and shoot from range and is usually a quicker on their feet than a traditional center.. Tim Duncan is the greatest PF in history

emcee143
08-09-2010, 04:27 PM
eh don't feel like discussing.

Barricade V
08-09-2010, 04:44 PM
What needs comparison is the Celtics and Heat, the two best teams in the NBA.

Rajon Rondo vs Mario Chambers

Rondo is an all star, one of the leaders of the team. He will continue to lead the team plays and is quickly becoming the most important person on the team.

Although Mario Chambers will just have to be on the floor, I feel the celtics and rondo will exploit this weakness, and chambers will then be a liability on the team.


Ray Allen vs Dwayne Wade

Wade will take a dramatically reduced role, to the point of him not being the leader of the team anymore. Of course at this point Wade is still better than Ray, but in my opinion this is almost a tie. Ray Allen is not asked as much of Dwayne offensively, however Ray is one of the best perimeter defenders in the game. Dwayne won't be able to take advantage of a Celtic "weakness" in the lineup, which is a problem for them.

Lebron James vs Paul Pierce

Once again, whilst James is the clearly better player, Pierce is quite proficient at defense. While he won't have as much of an impact on Lebron and Allen has on Dwayne, it will have an effect on Lebron. Lebron is a point forward, meaning he can play either guard, and forward. On other teams he is able to find the mismatch using his versatility and exploit that. Because of the defense of the celtic guards, this is not an option for him. But clearly, Lebron has the advantage without a doubt.

Chris Bosh vs Kevin Garnett

To me, this is the best option the heat has of winning against the celts. Garnett is an aging power forward with reoccurring knee issues. Although this year he should be healthy, you never know when it comes to Garnett. Bosh is the better player at this stage of the game, and the heat should try to win this matchup in the game. In my opinion, when the teams meet, Bosh will have a slightly elevated performance compared to his season averages. But that's just my opinion. Hopefully Garnett will get back to becoming one of the best defenders in the game like he was in the 2008 championships.

Perkins/O'neal's vs Illgaukus

This is the second biggest mismatch. Celtics have insane depth in the backcourt. Perkins, Jermaine O'neal, Shaquille O'neal, Kevin Garnett, Glen Davis, Luke Harangody, Rasheed Wallace's contract. Compare this to the heat's backcourt bench and its a huge mismatch. After signing all of the important people, the Heat management signed people who could essentially just be on the court for the center and hold their own. The question is, can they hold their own enough? I personally don't believe so.


Heat Bench vs Celtic Bench

Obviously you can tell who has the better bench. That's what happens when you sign 90% of your cap space to three people. Mike Miller and Udonlis Haslem are damn good players though. However, the celtic bench has stellar defense that can hold them back. Marquis Daniels should go back to his regular performance ability this season after having an atrocious past season. Tony Allen's departure was a major one, but one that can be filled. Von Wafer has potential, Avery Bradley was one of the top ranked high school players in the nation, he should be just fine in there. Nate Robinson - eh, but he's alright.

Clearly, I think the celtics will be the better team in the end. I think that the Heat will win more games, but head to head, the celtics have a roster that brings out the heat's weakness. My prediction for the season opener?

Celtics: 95
Heat:89

Barricade V
08-09-2010, 04:47 PM
But the Celtics didn't have poor matchups against the Lakers. The Lakers are to the Heat as Nadal is to Federer.

The Lakers are to the Celtics as Celtics is to the Heat.

jamesblakefan#1
08-09-2010, 05:12 PM
If Kobe, Artest, Pau, and Bynum are on the court, whos the other guy? Who play point? Is it Fisher or Farmar? Who do they guard?

Fisher v Chalmers, and I like Fisher in that matchup. I highly doubt either LBJ or Wade will be the starting PG, though both may take turns bringing the ball up court, running plays, etc.

The Heat when they go with the big Lineup nobody can match up with them. No PG can guard LeBron beacuse hes too big, no PF can guard lebron becasue hes to fast. Wade is faster than everyone in the league already. Bosh also has a quick first step and is more than capable of playing the wing where very few PFs have the lateral quickness to D him up. But when the put a smaller guy on Bosh he can use his lenght to post up.

Z and Haslem and Pitman and who ever else they play at PF and C are there to take up space and grab rebounds. Wade and Lebron will be all over the place playing help D and cusing havoc.

If the Heat play the Big Lineup with Lebron in the Magic Johnson role, which all signs point to I dont see how they can lose in a 7 game series. They just cant be stopped unless one of those guys gets hurt.

But how do we know they will do that though? What's to say LeBron wants to be a PG? Will Spoelstra really play him there? That's why all this Miami hoopla is just unfounded at this point. We have no idea how this team will look by the time the playoffs roll around - what their rotations will be, who will do what. It's all hearsay at this point.

And Pau >>>> Bosh when it comes to pure post play. Bosh is a face up type player ala Dirk, not a guy to bang it (pause) inside.

I really think Bosh is getting overrated in this whole ordeal. I see him as a 15-10 guy, kinda in the Odom role, but not a dominant force. Miami is Lebron/Wade's team, Bosh is just a complementary piece.

Bynum to me is the X Factor. If he is healthy (big IF I know), there's nothing the Heat can do to stop him on the inside. Illgauskus and Haslem are no match.

Fandango
08-09-2010, 09:54 PM
I think the Artest/James matchup is intriguing. Just because James is better doesn't mean that artest's defense will be no match.

slewisoh
08-09-2010, 10:50 PM
I'm a Cavs fan, but I'll be cheering for the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals. I'd love to see the old guys take apart the Heat.

Don't underestimate Shaq's desire to win another ring - especially against Kobe.

hollywood9826
08-10-2010, 05:38 AM
Miami made no effort to get a PG. they just said Chalmers is good enough to be starting PG in thisleague and battle Rondo and Jameer Nelson and Derrick rose in the Eastern finals. The only reason they do that is if they decide Lebron will play a Magic Johnson type roll. Riley did it with the Lakers and hes doing it again. If he wasnt planning on doing that he would have got another PG more proven than Chalmers or at least tried to.

emcee143
08-10-2010, 11:07 AM
Miami made no effort to get a PG. they just said Chalmers is good enough to be starting PG in thisleague and battle Rondo and Jameer Nelson and Derrick rose in the Eastern finals. The only reason they do that is if they decide Lebron will play a Magic Johnson type roll. Riley did it with the Lakers and hes doing it again. If he wasnt planning on doing that he would have got another PG more proven than Chalmers or at least tried to.

they still have carlos arroyo and they just got eddie house.

jamesblakefan#1
08-10-2010, 11:16 AM
Miami made no effort to get a PG. they just said Chalmers is good enough to be starting PG in thisleague and battle Rondo and Jameer Nelson and Derrick rose in the Eastern finals. The only reason they do that is if they decide Lebron will play a Magic Johnson type roll. Riley did it with the Lakers and hes doing it again. If he wasnt planning on doing that he would have got another PG more proven than Chalmers or at least tried to.

Not true. LeBron went to the airport to meet Fisher when Miami was trying to sign him this offseason, but Fisher decided to stay w/ LA. If that's not effort I don't know what is.

hollywood9826
08-10-2010, 12:53 PM
Everyone knew fisher was staying in LA and just usec MIA to get a little salary bump. The same way every baseball free agent talks to the Yankess.

Eddie House and Arroyo are bumbs they are spot backups at best.

Chalmers will get minutes in the reg season when they are blowing out teams. But the crunch time must win lineup will be the Big oversize lineup that nobody can defend. If they trot out Chalmers, Aorroyo and House as the PGs 48 mins a game the team is very beatable and doesnt pose the matchup threat. I will be totally surprised if they dont win the title with Lebron and Wade as the two guards. Lebron wont play SF.

CCNM
08-10-2010, 12:58 PM
SF would mainly play on the wings and create shots with there quickness, but are usally a bit bigger than a shooting guard, and can go down load if needed. SFs are usally yourt mot versatile player think of Scottie Pippen as your prototypical SF.


PF usually posts up and scores and rebounds down low, but can go outside and shoot from range and is usually a quicker on their feet than a traditional center.. Tim Duncan is the greatest PF in history

Thank you. :)