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Majik
08-20-2010, 09:37 AM
Is it considered a bad "code" violation to talk in someone's serve motion?

I have the same serve motion for about a year now, and everyone I play knows the sequence of my serve style. I played someone the other day who knows my serve very well say, "Just serve the ball", just as I was tossing the ball into the air. I consider this extremely rude. Can it be considered a hinderance from which I can extract a point? Thanks.

woodrow1029
08-20-2010, 09:42 AM
Is it considered a bad "code" violation to talk in someone's serve motion?

I have the same serve motion for about a year now, and everyone I play knows the sequence of my serve style. I played someone the other day who knows my serve very well say, "Just serve the ball", just as I was tossing the ball into the air. I consider this extremely rude. Can it be considered a hinderance from which I can extract a point? Thanks.
It can be, if it's actually in the service motion. But why is your serve routine so noticeable and seemingly irritable to your opponents? How much time are you taking between points?

tennisdad65
08-20-2010, 09:45 AM
What's the 'sequence of your serve style' ? :)

polski
08-20-2010, 09:52 AM
What's the 'sequence of your serve style' ? :)

I have a feeling it's "taking his sweet old Nadal time" based on the communication he received.

That being said, yes it is a hindrance for your opponent to talk directly to you in mid-swing. It is not if it is before your toss.

tennisdad65
08-20-2010, 10:04 AM
I have seen a recreational doubles match where one guy would take about a minute for every serve, because his toss was off. He needed about 3-4 tosses for every serve. None of the other 3 talked in the middle of his 3-4 tosses etc..

Cindysphinx
08-20-2010, 10:05 AM
Oh, uh. Your service routine has risen to the level of a "sequence?" :)

Funny thing about service routines. In the middle of a recent doubles match, my opponent (a nice lady I knew only in passing) said, "You're doing something really cute when you serve. I'll tell you about it after the match." Then after the match, she said, "Did you know that you start you service motion by kicking the ground with your right toe? But you only do it before your first serve or after you catch a toss, but not for the second serve. It's so *funny!*"

Darn her, she was right (about the kicking; I can't say whether it is "cute"). Every time I do it, this lady is in my head. And I can't make myself stop!

And it is pretty rude for your opponent to heckle during your service routine.

r2473
08-20-2010, 10:16 AM
I have seen a recreational doubles match where one guy would take about a minute for every serve, because his toss was off. He needed about 3-4 tosses for every serve. None of the other 3 talked in the middle of his 3-4 tosses etc..

This is actually a great tactic to use against a good returner. They will never be able to time anything (because they never know which toss you will actually hit). Frustrates the hell out of them.

And there really isn't much your opponent can do. "Sorry man. I always have trouble with my toss. I'm not trying to do this on purpose. Its frustrating for me too".

Mike2228
08-20-2010, 10:24 AM
Get to the point where you don't even notice the noise, you'll be better for it.

Annika
08-20-2010, 10:42 AM
If someone did that while I was in service motion, no matter who it was, I would stop, bounce the ball 3-4 times, glare over at my opponents, then serve.
:twisted:

r2473
08-20-2010, 10:51 AM
If someone did that while I was in service motion, no matter who it was, I would stop, bounce the ball 3-4 times, glare over at my opponents, then serve.
:twisted:

Oh ya!!! I'd sure show you. Why I would......................:rolleyes:

Annika
08-20-2010, 10:59 AM
quiet haywood....:???:

r2473
08-20-2010, 11:06 AM
quiet haywood....:???:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZwqyIJwNzSc/TFEB3TAEIEI/AAAAAAAAA7g/LPNuAxN8lzE/s1600/surrender.jpg

Majik
08-20-2010, 12:09 PM
Can the receiver be "ready" and talking to his partner at the same time?

Cindysphinx
08-20-2010, 12:16 PM
^Um, can you elaborate? What happened?

I dunno. If I see the receiver is ready and then I hear talking or a loud sound, I will stop and see what's going on. Was the noise a case of someone on the next court warning us that their ball is bouncing onto our court? Once I see everyone's ready again, I serve.

JoelDali
08-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Good Lord, this isn't you is it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT714mG17bA

Panic492
08-20-2010, 01:39 PM
Good Lord, this isn't you is it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT714mG17bA

OMG, too funny.

saigonbond
08-20-2010, 04:12 PM
Is it considered a bad "code" violation to talk in someone's serve motion?

I have the same serve motion for about a year now, and everyone I play knows the sequence of my serve style. I played someone the other day who knows my serve very well say, "Just serve the ball", just as I was tossing the ball into the air. I consider this extremely rude. Can it be considered a hinderance from which I can extract a point? Thanks.


USTA RULE 26. HINDRANCE (OLD 21,25 & 36)
If a player is hindered in playing the point by a deliberate act of the opponent(s), the player shall win the point.

Steady Eddy
08-20-2010, 06:42 PM
Good Lord, this isn't you is it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT714mG17bAIs that jerking around illegal? It should be!

beernutz
08-22-2010, 08:22 PM
Is that jerking around illegal? It should be!

That serve was an anomaly. This is how he normally plays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_EutlwXdKs&feature=related

Annika
08-28-2010, 08:38 PM
http://www.truveo.com/search?query=bartoli's%20serving&flv=1#bartoli's%20serving%20

Check out Bartoli's service motion. Wherever did she learn that?
But I guess it works. :|

blakesq
08-29-2010, 09:34 AM
if a server was consistently tossing the ball 3-4 times before actually serving, I would start getting "unready" after each failed toss. That is, if the server tosses the ball, and then catches it, I would put my hand up and get re-ready. Of course, I only do this if someone is being a jerk about multiple tosses. Further, if it is taking a minute to serve, they are violating the rule of serving within 20 seconds, (or is it 24 seconds?).


This is actually a great tactic to use against a good returner. They will never be able to time anything (because they never know which toss you will actually hit). Frustrates the hell out of them.

And there really isn't much your opponent can do. "Sorry man. I always have trouble with my toss. I'm not trying to do this on purpose. Its frustrating for me too".

Cindysphinx
08-29-2010, 10:25 AM
if a server was consistently tossing the ball 3-4 times before actually serving, I would start getting "unready" after each failed toss. That is, if the server tosses the ball, and then catches it, I would put my hand up and get re-ready. Of course, I only do this if someone is being a jerk about multiple tosses. Further, if it is taking a minute to serve, they are violating the rule of serving within 20 seconds, (or is it 24 seconds?).

If you got "unready," I would not even see you. I toss, and if I need to catch, I catch and scold myself and toss again without much delay. I do not look up at the receiver to see if she has wandered off after I caught the toss.

Believe me, I don't enjoy the multiple tosses any more than you do. But I prefer them to DFs.

blakesq
08-29-2010, 10:45 AM
You are supposed to check that the receiver is ready before you serve.

If you got "unready," I would not even see you. I toss, and if I need to catch, I catch and scold myself and toss again without much delay. I do not look up at the receiver to see if she has wandered off after I caught the toss.

Believe me, I don't enjoy the multiple tosses any more than you do. But I prefer them to DFs.

Cindysphinx
08-29-2010, 12:00 PM
Here's Rule 21 and comments, with a few deletions not pertinent here:

The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready.
A receiver who attempts to return the service shall be considered as being ready. If it is demonstrated that the receiver is not ready, the service cannot be called a fault.

. . . .

USTA Comment 21.2: Once ready, can the receiver become
unready? The receiver cannot become unready unless outside interference occurs.

. . . .

USTA Comment 21.7: What happens when the server observes
that the receiver appears to be ready and hits the second serve in, but the receiver makes no attempt to return it? The Server wins the point if the receiver had no reason for not being ready; if the receiver was not ready because of something within the receiver’s control (broken string or contact lens problem), then the server gets two serves; and if the receiver was not ready because of some reasonable factor such as clearing the errant first serve or a ball from an adjacent court, then the server gets one serve. If the time to clear the ball from the adjacent
court is so prolonged as to constitute an interruption, good sportsmanship requires the receiver to offer the server two serves.

I think if I catch my toss twice and then hit the third one, then that would be an ace if you didn't return it.

Is that how it works?

blakesq
08-29-2010, 12:09 PM
Once you toss the ball, and catch it, you are restarting your serve, and then you have to check that the receiver is ready. however, if the receiver looks ready, and you serve the ball on the 3rd toss, then, yes, it would be an ace, imho.


Here's Rule 21 and comments, with a few deletions not pertinent here:



I think if I catch my toss twice and then hit the third one, then that would be an ace if you didn't return it.

Is that how it works?

Cindysphinx
08-29-2010, 02:43 PM
I dunno, Blake.

I mean, say I step up to the line and look at you and you are ready. I then tug at my wedgie, tap my foot, bounce the ball like Djokovic, put my hair behind my ears, then toss the ball and hit it. If you become unready during all of that sequence for no good reason, it's an ace, I think.

It doesn't make sense that the "toss" starts the service motion, if you think about it. 'Cause there is no requirement that I toss the ball at all (underhand serve).

blakesq
08-29-2010, 06:11 PM
yes, you are correct about the ace. but we were talking about tossing the ball, and catching it. once you toss the ball and catch it, you then re-start your serve, and you must check to see if your opponent is ready. if you set up to serve underhand, and you don't serve it, the ball will hit the ground, and you will have to pick it up, and re-start your serve, and again, check to see if the receiver is ready.

I dunno, Blake.

I mean, say I step up to the line and look at you and you are ready. I then tug at my wedgie, tap my foot, bounce the ball like Djokovic, put my hair behind my ears, then toss the ball and hit it. If you become unready during all of that sequence for no good reason, it's an ace, I think.

It doesn't make sense that the "toss" starts the service motion, if you think about it. 'Cause there is no requirement that I toss the ball at all (underhand serve).

Cindysphinx
08-29-2010, 06:17 PM
^I guess we're going to have to get a ruling from an expert. I'm not seeing *anything* in the rules that supports what you are saying.

If I am standing at the baseline ready to play, and you have to be ready when I am and play to my pace, then you have to play to my pace. If that pace includes three tosses, you have to stay ready. There is nothing that says that my catching a toss releases you from your obligation to be ready when I strike that serve if you were ready when I stepped up to that baseline.

blakesq
08-29-2010, 06:23 PM
The server is not ready to play if she is tossing the ball 3 times. Why do you think the pros (and most amateurs I know) apologize when they catch their toss? They know it is interrupting the receiver's readiness to return serve. You don't have the right to toss the ball as many times as you want during your allotted 24 seconds (or is it 20?) to serve, and expect the receiver to be prepared to return serve on the 5th toss, or 8th toss. This seems common sensical and sporting to me.

^I guess we're going to have to get a ruling from an expert. I'm not seeing *anything* in the rules that supports what you are saying.

If I am standing at the baseline ready to play, and you have to be ready when I am and play to my pace, then you have to play to my pace. If that pace includes three tosses, you have to stay ready. There is nothing that says that my catching a toss releases you from your obligation to be ready when I strike that serve if you were ready when I stepped up to that baseline.

Cindysphinx
08-29-2010, 06:35 PM
Players apologize because they have inadvertently done something amateurish and annoying. It's just good manners.

And yes, the server is ready to play before the serve is actually struck, obviously.

And yes, you can toss the ball as many times as you want within the 20 seconds. If you were to do this deliberately, this would qualify you as a jerk, but I cannot see how it is prohibited by the rules.

woodrow1029
08-29-2010, 06:35 PM
Cindy, a lot of times when you toss the ball up and catch it, the receiver has already taken their split step to get ready to receive. You need to give them a couple of seconds to get re-ready, and yes, it is your responsibility to make srue that the receiver is ready after a caught toss.

Cindysphinx
08-29-2010, 07:00 PM
Cindy, a lot of times when you toss the ball up and catch it, the receiver has already taken their split step to get ready to receive. You need to give them a couple of seconds to get re-ready, and yes, it is your responsibility to make srue that the receiver is ready after a caught toss.

All right. If you say so. I stand corrected.