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View Full Version : Is it better to play with a racquet that you can play your absolute best with or.....


wildmoose31
05-28-2005, 10:02 AM
I recently bought a Ps 6.0 85, mainly just for fun but I finally got around to hitting it the last two days, I was suprised how well I can hit a lot of my shots with it. Which leads me to this question.....

What would I be better off doing....

A. Playing with a stick(6.0 85, nCode 90, PC 600) that when Im playing well I can maximize my potential with when I am playing my best, but if im not playing my best or am tired, my game really suffers

B. Playing with a stick (nCode 95, Pure Control, diablo, fp radical tour, etc) where if im playing my best, the racquet slightly limits me in power, control or touch, but when I am not at my best, my game doesnt suffer nearly as much

Since im not playing competitivley at the moment, I am leaning towards option A, so I can work to get better because the racquet forces me to, but im interested in others opinions

Rafa Nadal
05-28-2005, 10:06 AM
I would say A too because a stick which is hard to play like NCode 90 is more interesting like a stick like Pure Drive because you learn more and can improve your Game more and more

Michelangelo
05-28-2005, 10:21 AM
The real world is always cruel. Going for something really not even a bit forgiving (such as Pro Staff 85) reveals all bad aspects of your playing, then you know what you should improve. On the other hand, easier rackets can let you play easier and appearently you play better. However, such rackets also hide/forgive your mistakes and you'll never know their existance.

Anyway, when I first picked up the Pro Staff 85, I also hit surprisingly well despite the small head size.

iscottius
05-28-2005, 10:26 AM
play with the racquet that gives you the best chance of winning all the time.

Grimjack
05-28-2005, 10:47 AM
If you intend to maximize your tennis potential, you should play with the stick that lets you play the best when you're playing your best -- and then bust your *** to get your game and your fitness to the point that that's how you play every time you step on the court.

If you intend to get the most fun out of tennis you possibly can...well, pick the answer that you find you have more fun with.

Honestlybad
05-28-2005, 10:51 AM
Maybe practicing witha demanding racquet and playing matches with an easier version is the answer.

thebeast
05-28-2005, 11:04 AM
how good are you?

tom4ny
05-28-2005, 11:57 AM
'absolute' best for me is when i beat a player that is better than me (rarely happens but does sometimes). play some test matches with the 'A' group b4 deciding. naturally it is ultimately your decision and you should play with what you like but it seems that a MP headsize helps [especially] when you're in a defensive position against a strong player. there are SO many out there, i'd imagine you could find the balance your looking for. good luck with it all the same.

rooski
05-28-2005, 12:02 PM
Ummm.... I don't think you will loose any power or touch with any of the rackets in your choice B. In fact you should have significantly more power with them. While it's fun to play with rackets in your choice A.....you have to figure there is a reason that a LOT (not make that a ton) more guys on tour are playing with the (B) rackets. Unless you are a 5.5 to 6.0 player you should forget about the sticks in section A for anything resembling competition.

Lastly, I don't think there is one racket in section B that would limit you in any way. Put the Sampras and Federer cool aid down and play with the racket that you play best with MOST of the time.:)

TennsDog
05-28-2005, 12:05 PM
I had a similar dilemma between the nCode 95 and Tour 10 VE mp. I liked the feel of the Tour 10 better and it had better power and was less demanding, but I went with the nCode because it forces me to improve and will stick with me, allowing for more development. I would say try using the more demanding racket and practice as much as possible with it to get used to it and its weight, etc . I think you will find yourself getting used to it pretty quickly and the weight won't be much of a problem.

BreakPoint
05-28-2005, 01:16 PM
The harder the better, baby! I think using a more demanding racquet makes the game more challenging, and thus, more interesting. I love the challenge of improving all the time. I think that's what makes tennis so interesting and addictive in that it makes you want to keep getting better and become perfect, which no one, of course, ever achieves (with the possible exception of Federer). When I use some tweeners, it makes the game so easy to play that I feel as if I'm cheating. It's like I don't even have to concentrate and I can hit volleys away for winners? What fun is there in that? It's like driving an automatic transmission vs. a manual. Or like hunting for wild deer out in the woods while they're running around vs. having one tied up and walking up to it and shooting it in the head at point blank range. Where's the challenge in that? Where's the sport in that? Tennis is SUPPOSED to a be a challenging sport, not a game of backgammon or poker where you can sit around munching on chips, drinking beer, smoking a cigar, and clicking the remote while you're doing it.

The bottom line is, for me, it's less about winning and more about how well I play and how I feel about my game when I play, and how challenged I am in trying to hit that perfect stroke everytime. That's what makes tennis fun for me and why it's so addictive for me. If it gets too easy, I'll probably get bored and move on to golf or bowling or something else. ;)

tom4ny
05-28-2005, 02:03 PM
i understand what you mean about challenging oneself to play better and its not always about winning. if i lose a match but feel that i played well, just got outplayed, i am still satisfied. but finding a racquet that helps you to win is NOT cheating. rather, it is the best choice. i'm with iscottius and rooski on this one.

SageOfDeath
05-28-2005, 02:39 PM
The real world is always cruel. Going for something really not even a bit forgiving (such as Pro Staff 85) reveals all bad aspects of your playing, then you know what you should improve. On the other hand, easier rackets can let you play easier and appearently you play better. However, such rackets also hide/forgive your mistakes and you'll never know their existance.

Anyway, when I first picked up the Pro Staff 85, I also hit surprisingly well despite the small head size.

That's why they say besides footwork, old school wooden racquet players would be able to cream the tennis players today. I use a prostaff Wilson Hyp ProStaff Surge X and its recomended for a 4.0+ all courst players. My brother got it stringed for me somewhere and the string tension is really high. I'm definately not a 4.0 as I just started playing tennis about in February or March of this year. But I do play a lot of tennis. Once I tried my friend's racquet which was a hammer racquet stringed at probably 50-55 pounds. When I hit with my forehand the ball just flew with power. Definately more forgiving but I often hit with too much head racquet speed so it wasn't a good racquet for me.

I think that the racquet shouldn't make the player. Don't get a racquet to hide your errors in your strokes. I think the only few good reasons to get a new racquet is if your old one is broken, it hurts because the racquet is too heavy, or if you feel that you want to try a new racquet.

SageOfDeath
05-28-2005, 02:47 PM
I might get a new racquet for my birthday ^_^

tom4ny
05-28-2005, 03:07 PM
sorry to play devils advocate here but i really want the guy/gal who started this thread to think this thu.

if you have bad stroke mechanics, a racquet will not fix that for you. regardless of the racquet, in that case you are going to lose against a better player. so skill is important absolutely no argument there. the problem comes when you are in game situations against a player who serves bullets and hits just as hard or harder than you. out the window goes the idea of hitting perfect strokes or being amazed with your directional control. you've got less time to think and prepare and the margin for error is raised.

the 'right' racquet isnt hiding anything in this case and it also is not going to in and of itself mean the difference between winning and losing but minimizing your margin for error (with a demanding frame) certainly doesnt help. does this concept sound that crazy?

gregraven
05-28-2005, 03:25 PM
I would recommend playing with whatever racquet makes you so comfortable and/or confident that you don't question the racquet when you make a bad shot, or are losing.

NoBadMojo
05-28-2005, 03:42 PM
the only time you should play with a frame that is beyond your level is perhaps when you are a kid and are getting too good or too big for a junior racquet..kids can shoot up pretty quickly and in a short while they can grow into their gear..otherwise people should pick frame well matched to ther PRESENT skillset. whoever said tennis is too easy with a tweener either just isnt playing anyone very good or is on the tour ..there's certaInly enough tweeners and even game improvement frames on tHe tour these days and even the pros dont feel that way..they will use anything to get an edge. to say that using a too demanding frames makes you learn to hit the ball correctly is absurd, and can actually result in bad technique or injury...and people who say you can't hit all of the shots with tweeners and such really dont know of what they speak.
Disclaimer: Free world (to some degree) and everyone can sure use whatever they wish

BreakPoint
05-28-2005, 07:15 PM
Actually, I said that using a tweener makes things too easy, but only compared to and relative to using a demanding player's racquet. Tennis will always be a relatively difficult sport no matter what racquet you use because there's just so much more involved than your choice of racquet.

I actually do feel that using a low powered, flexible players racquet forces me to have to take a long, full stroke to hit the ball or else it won't even go over the net. With a tweener, I can get away with short, choppy strokes and sometimes even just a flick of the wrist and hit a winner. I'm not so sure that's good for the development of one's game in the long run IMHO.

goober
05-28-2005, 07:26 PM
Actually I had this same question. Funny thing is I had the it aswered for me by getting tennis elbow. I couldn't play with my Surges or brand new nCode Surge because of the pain. So I am sticking with my 20 mm, 12 oz, 10 pt headlight, 59 flex racquet.

If anybody is looking for a essentially brand new nCode Surge let me know :D

ffrpg
05-28-2005, 07:44 PM
Go with option A. I was in this situation once upon a time and I chose option A. I bought a PS 85 for fun and kept playing with it. I never lost to my friend until I started using the PS 85. I started losing matches at first, but they were all for fun. It really did pay off though. After a couple months, I started getting better than my friends. My strokes were more consistent. It really is demanding and sometimes you might want to give up on it. Don't give up though, it really is worth it.

wildmoose31
05-28-2005, 09:20 PM
Well, recently after trying lots of racquets, im in an interesting situation. If I take out my FP Rad Tour, I can pound my forehand deep into the court, and thats seriously the only big improvement. My serves dont gain much power and lose accuracy, my one hand backhand and slice definitley loose sharpness. When I move down to my Babolat Pure Control Team + my serves go up in power and control, and my forehand goes deeper, not noticing much more power though, my backhand is similar to the FP rad tour, but better but I do play pretty well. (Ive used the PCT as my main racquet for a good amount of the year). If I step down to the iPrestige mid (customized to add an extra half inch) My serves very slightly go down in power, accuracy gets better. Ive used the iPrestige for about 2 years before getting a Pure Control. Then theres the Volkl Vengine 10 mid, which I really loved at first, but eventually something took me away from it, very nice for serves, backhands and forehands, touch wasnt great though. Then back when I used a nCode 90 I could play good if i was hitting the sweet spot, but something about it drew me away, probably it being too demanding, so I sold it. I also have tried two PC 600s, which is mainly what led me to this question because I play really really well with them, backhand, forehand, volley and serve are all freakin amazing, but when Im off, its not really great at all. I also recently got a Ps 6.0 85, mainly for fun, not really to use in competition, and the two times ive played with it, im very impressed, no bad games yet, but im sure they will come soon enough.

anirut
05-28-2005, 09:47 PM
Tennis is like car racing ... you MUST be alert ALL the time.

If you want to get serious with the game then the so-so racket won't get you there.

That's my 0.02.

NoBadMojo
05-28-2005, 10:21 PM
well if you change your stroke into a short choppy stroke to adapt to a tweener then you really do suck as a tennis player...nadal has gone beyong tweener into a game improvement frame...breakpoint is evidently superior to nadal

mucat
05-28-2005, 10:27 PM
Why not use both!!!???
Practice with the PS 6.0 85 and play competitive match with a bigger head racket.

Actually, bigger head size generally give you more power, as for control and touch, it is not the racket. Agassi play with an OS and lots of Pros play with 95.

Rory G
05-29-2005, 03:26 AM
Actually, I said that using a tweener makes things too easy, but only compared to and relative to using a demanding player's racquet. Tennis will always be a relatively difficult sport no matter what racquet you use because there's just so much more involved than your choice of racquet.

I actually do feel that using a low powered, flexible players racquet forces me to have to take a long, full stroke to hit the ball or else it won't even go over the net. With a tweener, I can get away with short, choppy strokes and sometimes even just a flick of the wrist and hit a winner. I'm not so sure that's good for the development of one's game in the long run IMHO.

I agree that it is all relative. If you are used to playing a lower powered "players" frame and start using a lighter stiff racquet I think you will start to play more of a compact chip/chop style to tame the power. A heavier low powered racquet will allow you to take a bigger swing. It is all what you are used to and what makes you happy :D I think the whole "head size, player v tweener stuff on this board has been beat to death. Play what is comfortable and creates the most FUN on the court

Grimjack
05-29-2005, 05:29 AM
well if you change your stroke into a short choppy stroke to adapt to a tweener then you really do suck as a tennis player...nadal has gone beyong tweener into a game improvement frame...breakpoint is evidently superior to nadal

I thought Volkl made game improvement frames, too. They must not, because no mere club instructor with common sense would use Tour 10 V-engines when game improvement racquets from the same sponsor were available. Unless he felt he actually played better with them. But then, why would he be such a troll as to offer smarmy criticism to other sub-7.0's for the same flaw he himself possesses?

No, that wouldn't make sense. Because then the mere club instructor would come across like a condescending *** with delusions of ******ur. Volkl must not make game improvement frames.

NoBadMojo
05-29-2005, 05:37 AM
huh? of course volkl makes game improvement frames, and some think what i use is too much of a game improvement frame for them...too powerful. breakpoint said tennis was too easy with a tweener. i found that to be a very untrue arrogant statement and i responded. i didnt direct any comment at you grimjack and find your insult not appropriate.

tom4ny
05-29-2005, 06:54 AM
nobad needs no defense cuz each post speaks for itself. i will state tho, that i'd much rather have him as my coach and mentor. he wins the argument on the merits.

to suggest to someone to play with a racquet (when that person states that his game suffers) because it makes the game more challenging and forces you to play better is not logical. and rory g, if people do that they should be called on it cuz they're giving poor advice imho.

darren, with all due respect i think that you answered your own question with your initial post. i suppose the key is in how you define 'playing your best' tennis. seriously though, best of luck.

BreakPoint
05-29-2005, 07:37 AM
well if you change your stroke into a short choppy stroke to adapt to a tweener then you really do suck as a tennis player...nadal has gone beyong tweener into a game improvement frame...breakpoint is evidently superior to nadal

What are you talking about NBMJ? I never said I change my strokes when I use a tweener, I said it lets me get away with hitting some short, choppy strokes or wrist flicks to get the ball back, which I can't do with my usual racquet. To tell you the truth, if I took my usual long, full strokes with a tweener as with my usual low powered player's racquets, I'd be hitting the back fence half the time. So, yes, with some tweeners you do have to adjust your strokes somewhat if you're coming from a player's stick. I think even you'd agree with that!

And, yes, I am superior to Nadal - in the on court attire department! ;)

BreakPoint
05-29-2005, 07:53 AM
breakpoint said tennis was too easy with a tweener. i found that to be a very untrue arrogant statement and i responded.

Huh? How is that arrogant? Can you comprehend English? I said it's easier to play with a tweener RELATIVE to playing with a low-powered, small-headed player's stick, because playing with a player's stick is indeed HARDER. That's what makes playing with the tweener "too easy" - when compared to playing with a player's stick.

It's like if you've driven a manual transmission car your whole life (and enjoy doing so), and then you switch to an automatic, you may indeed find driving "too easy".

BTW, I always enjoy a challenge. I don't want things to be too easy or else it's not fun for me (e.g., manual vs. automatic car). I don't want to play tennis nor chess nor anything else against someone I can beat easily. Maybe you do to boost your ego, but I don't. I'd rather be challenged and lose than have a easy, non-interesting win. That's what makes tennis fun for me. For the life of me, I'll never understand all the people that play down (low self ratings) just to get the easy wins. These must be the same people that enjoy taking candy away from babies.

Gaines Hillix
05-29-2005, 08:10 AM
Not sure I've ever followed the logic that using a frame that is extra demanding is going to somehow force you to play better or that using a tweener makes the game too easy. Try telling that to Andy Rodick. I'd recommend using the frame you play best with and if you want to push yourself, experiment with adding weight to your favorite stick. I also don't see anything wrong with using more than one frame and using the one that fits your level of confidence on that particular day.

montx
05-29-2005, 08:28 AM
I have followed this thread briefly but I have grown weary. I do second what Gaines Hillix is saying though. There is a racquet that you can find that is your 'Golden Egg' so to speak and it will work for your best or worst game, because you find it is working with you and not against you.

Though I am only a 3.0-3.5 player, I have tested these racquets:
Head LM Radical MP
Head Ti.Laser Supreme CZ
Head Flexpoint Tour
Head FP MP
a few Prince Racquets including the old thunderbolt.

Through trial and error process I am lucky to have found my Volkl which is my Golden Egg, regardless of my mental state or emotional one, I will say, it is a fantastic racquet, at least as far as what attributes I looked for and meeting those attributes that I need.

I would hope you honestly judge yourself as a player and person and identify what it is that you require and then by trial and error begin a search until you say, hey this is the racquet for me.

I do not believe there is a more perfect racquet for me personally, and I think through a lot of reading you might find your way to your Golden Egg.

Good Luck

Safina
05-29-2005, 08:59 AM
If you find a racquet you like, in this case the PC600, try using a soft multi or natty gut at the lowest rec. tension before giving up on it.... The right string & tension can really make a difference especially in a demanding frame like the PC600.
When I bought my first Prestige, I strung it up at 70lbs like I did all my other racquets. OMG it felt horrible and my serves barely made it over the net! It took me way to long to realize that with a heavy, 18x20, flexible racquet that my control will be fine with a 53-55lb stringing, and my power will be greatly enhanced...

Don't give up on it if you really like it the best.

If you were the only person alive, and you were going to hit against a wall, which racquet would you take with you?

NoBadMojo
05-29-2005, 09:31 AM
breakpoint it is all fine as to what you enjoying playing with..but that's only you, and frankly, it's pretty boorish and arrogant when people feel the need over and over again to describe their game in intricate detail, and then to add that the game is too easy when they use a tweener is pretty absurd...do you think people are really that interested in your game? so fine..you like to be challenged..fair enough....but to pontificate this in the form of really bad advice isnt so good i dont think and if people are listening to you, i feel as though they just arent getting good advice from you. it's fine you have an opinion and you are certainly welcome to express that in a public forum. so your strokes get short and choppy with a tweener (who cares?) others get longer because they are swinging faster and their followthru is longer and that can be a good thing. when someone makes totally illogical posts, they should expect to get a response. just my opinion.
i agree with tom4ny..the creator of the thread answered his own question with his post..he just needs to reread. darren let us know if we can help you find the right gear for your game, or if you are really unclear, maybe seek a good teaching pro and take a lesson..in a single session he/she should be able to come up w. some good racquet suggestions for your game based upon seeing you hit and asking the right questions.
should people buy more frame than they can handle? no way....they shouldnt buy less either...they should by something suitable for their game and skillset. that seems obvious? then as you improve, you can always change your strings, play around w. lead, or change to something more appropriate for your new skillset. and you know what? sometimes when people get better, they actually benefit from a more powerful frame than a less powerful frame because they have better spin control and thusly better control of their power...but for some, i guess that would make the game too easy..so be it.
if people want to be really challenged, they should just go to a woodie and string it up really tightly with poly, wear the heaviest shoes they can find (i suggest metatarsal high top workboots), and also play with a lead scuba belt...now that would be challenging.....and a really good workout

BreakPoint
05-29-2005, 01:38 PM
it's pretty boorish and arrogant when people feel the need over and over again to describe their game in intricate detail, and then to add that the game is too easy when they use a tweener is pretty absurd...

NBMJ, you must be talking about yourself, then? I think the members of this board know more about your game than anyone else's on this board. We know you play mostly on clay, we know you liked the T10 Gen II but now switched to the T10 VE MP because you get more power on clay, we know you would use the Gen II on faster surfaces, we know that you used to use the Gen I modified to be more headlight, we know that you play less S&V and more from the baseline these days, etc.....should I continue? There's nothing wrong with describing your game in detail IMO because people reading your (or my) posts need a frame of reference. It's not as useful info to someone to say that the PS 6.0 85 is a great stick unless you tell them that you mostly serve and volley. A pure baseliner probably won't find the PS 6.0 85 as suitable.

BTW, I'm not the only one in this thread that thinks you may have to shorten your strokes to accomodate a more powerful tweener if your coming from a low-powered player's stick. Rory G stated the same thing. I also witness this everyday on the public courts.

BTW2, I'm plenty challenged right now using my player's stick. If I start beating all of my opponents 6-0, 6-0 in every match, maybe I will string up that woodie and get myself a pair of army boots to play in. ;)

NoBadMojo
05-29-2005, 01:51 PM
i'm done with you Breakpoint..you may have last word as usual.

wildmoose31
05-30-2005, 06:41 AM
Right now, I wont be playing matches that matter for at least 4-5 months, my thoughts right now is if I am at the top of my game with the tougher to play racquet, I can compete a lot better with players superior to me and it can be the difference between winning or losing. My worries come in where I would be on an off day, playing a lesser player and the unforgiving racquet could cost me the match, but I feel if I continue working hard with the tougher racquet I can become a better player then if I just decided to stick with a pure control or fp rad tour

EDIT: and by more demanding I mean a PC600 or something like that, not a Ps 6.0 85

textbook strokes
05-30-2005, 10:40 AM
Based on my own personal experience, I have to agree with Nbmj; I used to play with the ncode 90 thinking I was a Roger clone, but a couple of months later I was losing with almost anybody in my club. Not only that, the heavyweigth of the frame forced me inconciously to develop a strange motion in forehands and serves. My tennis actually went backwards.
I recently swichted to the npro 98, that is not really powerful as many tweeners, but is a lot less heavy than the ncode 90, an guess what?; My tennis is really improving!!. I'm able to try angles shots, better serves, and even working with strategies that I never could before (I realize now).
I hope this opinion helped

Simbah2004
05-30-2005, 03:40 PM
I play with the 85 most of the time, and some people say the better you get, the more you get from such racquet. I'll disagree.
People also forget you also play against better people. In my case, when I play with guys my level (3.5 4.0)I can wail out and win matches.
But when I'm faced agains hard hitting opponents, I find myself swinging late and missing shots. I've tried many other racquets, and it is so difficult to replace the 85.

The Ripper
05-30-2005, 08:29 PM
I agree with BreakPoint, a player's stick makes you work harder - it's more demanding so it forces you to learn proper technique. And if your technique is bad, you will know pretty quickly. Playing with the PS Tour 90 2 years ago when I was about a 3.0 taught me how to swing the racket properly, because if I didn't, the ball didn't go over the net. And I built up some pretty good muscles serving 2-3 sets a session with that sucker.

A few months ago I picked up my old Dunlop "Quake" 8.2 - an oversized "power" racket from 6 years ago. All of a sudden I could hit the ball all over the place while hardly lifting a finger. That was no fun! Like good ol' Pistol Pete Sampras, I want the racket to respond to what I put into it. A tweener racket doesn't allow that. And if a particular player's racket is indeed too challenging, switch to one a little easier or, like me, own them all! PS 85 when feeling good; PS Tour 90 when a little off; NC Tour 90 for all the other times.

Sorry, NoBadMojo, in spite of your screen name, you certainly seem to have some bad mojo goin' on for BP. I didn't hear anything objectionable in any of his posts. On the contrary, he seemed excited about the thrill of mastering a difficult racket to create a better game and better experience for himself - that is, more fun!! Maybe that's not for everyone, but to each his own.

Peace, baby

akj27
05-30-2005, 09:07 PM
alright, you guys got me worried now.

I'm a level 3.5, and im looking for a new racquet to help me develop my game. I was thinking about getting a babolat puredrive, since its a more forgiving racquet and stuff, but i hear that if i get a more forgiving racquet, ill never make it past 3.5 since its hiding my mistakes. Now, what would you guys recommend then? I dont want a wooden racquet though, i refuse to play with that, theres gotta be something thats not as forgiving.

mucat
05-30-2005, 09:30 PM
If someone really understand tennis groundstrokes, they should have no problem playing with a "player's" racket or tweener and granny stick, whatever.

However, for heavy "player's" racket, not everyone has the same physique, not everyone can wave a heavy racket at the 3rd set. How sounds are your strokes has nothing to do with how heavy a racket you can handle. A 6'4" 250 lbs 3.0 player can probably handle a 14oz racket, but a 5'5" 100lbs 5.0 player probably cannot handle a 14oz racket.

I do not like the term "player's" racket, it is very misleading. It is like if you play with a "player's racket", you are a player, a pro, very misleading for beginner.

The Ripper
05-30-2005, 11:08 PM
Hey akj27,

Nothing to worry about. Mucat is absolutely right. "Player's" racket is a misleading term. I think it generally has come to mean a racket with a smaller head, heavier, stiffer, perhaps less forgiving in comparison to a "beginner" or "tweener," i.e., rackets for beginners and intermediates; with a "player's" racket for advanced players (4.0 - 6.0), although I'm sure the pro's simply use the racket they are most familiar with and/or play the best with whether it's a player's racket or not.

Personally, I have always picked the racket that "inspired" me and was the most fun to play with. I went to my local tennis shop and picked two or three rackets that appealed to me - looks-wise, they way they felt, etc. I didn't know whether they were "player's" rackets or what, I just liked them and then took them out on the court. I then picked the one I enjoyed playing with the most. As it turned out, that was a Wilson Rok, a so-called player's racket. I then moved to a PS Tour 90, then PS 85, POG, etc., etc. as my skills and abilities changed. When I first played on a Tour 90 two years ago I could barely lift it after about 5 minutes of play. Now it feels pretty light! Of course I grew up playing on wood rackets (about 13 oz and very headlight), so these modern heavier rackets feel natural to me which is probably why I've gravitated toward them.

So, my advice, just demo a bunch of rackets until you find one you like - pretty simple. And I'll certainly plug Tennis Warehouse's demo program, it's great and very inexpensive.

Go for it!

akj27
05-30-2005, 11:30 PM
maybe i should try the prostaff 85, everyone keeps saying its not very forgiving, so maybe i should try that, plus, its only 130

The Ripper
05-30-2005, 11:48 PM
FWIW, I find the PS 85 very easy to play with. If you're a decent 3.5 player, you won't have any problem using it. It is very quick and lively, hits beautiful backhands, easy to serve with, and has a wonderful feel when you hit the sweetspot that has yet to be rivaled in any modern frame - that's why it's a classic. See if you can find one to demo or borrow one from someone before buying it. And if you are going to buy one, get it on **** or something - probably somewhere between $65 and $100. No use springing for a brand new one unless you've got the money to spend. You might also want to try the PS 6.0 95. It is definitely more forgiving and an (almost IMO) equally wonderful racket. You can't go wrong with either.

The only "problem" I had with the PS 85 was because of the small sweetspot: if I was in a big rush to the net, a little slow getting to the ball or a bit tired that morning, I would often mishit or frame the shot with the 85. But you know what? I'm playing better now and that doesn't happen any more frequently now with the 85 than with the 90 or 95 inch frames. So it's not the racket, it's me!

As another suggestion, you might like the Prince Original Graphite (POG) mid. Definitely more forgiving than the PS 85 with much the same feel. Also, the new nCode nTour 95 (the orange/white) feels and plays very much like the PS 85 although more forgiving (and accordingly less control). There are so many great rackets out there right now, I'm sure you'll find one you'll just love - at least until the next one comes along.

Good luck!

tom4ny
05-31-2005, 05:12 AM
i dont follow the logic of promoting a racquet that is difficult to play with and/or will work against you when you're tired or up against a hard hitter.

would you suggest to a beginner/intermediate skier that they should buy a pair of racing skiis, cuz it'll force them to ski better? a baseball player to use a bat that's too heavy for them cuz it'll force them to get stronger and when they do connect with the ball it'll be a home run? put that skiier on a more difficult trail and put that batter up against a strong pitcher and the results are not likely to be good.

of course you should play with what YOU like but i dunno that promoting a racquet that is difficult to play with and in many cases will cause a person's game to suffer is good or balanced advice.

and i believe it is good advice to suggest to someone that they play with something that compliments their current skill level. as that person's game becomes more consistent and improves, then gradually step up. the end result will be much better. thats what i do at the gym and seems to make sense (to me) for the skiier, baseball player, and tennis player.

-tom

TennsDog
05-31-2005, 05:51 AM
The idea is kind of like switching techniques or trying anything else new: it will get worse before it gets better, but once you do finally get it right, the resultant playing will be much better than what you had before. The goal is still to pick the racket that will let you win the most matches, which a more demanding racket will do in the long run. You may lose more matches immediately, but you will win more by improved technique and strength later on.

Mies
05-31-2005, 06:08 AM
Maybe practicing witha demanding racquet and playing matches with an easier version is the answer.

This may work for some, but definately not for me.

My consistency really suffers if I switch frames too often. I train once per week with a trainer and play 2-3 sessions/week of match play besides that. Switching frames every couple of days would kill both my practicing and my match play. For me sticking to one frame is best.

Regards,
Maurice

AndrewD
05-31-2005, 07:00 AM
This may work for some, but definately not for me.

My consistency really suffers if I switch frames too often. I train once per week with a trainer and play 2-3 sessions/week of match play besides that. Switching frames every couple of days would kill both my practicing and my match play. For me sticking to one frame is best.

Regards,
Maurice

I find the same thing. Even shifting to a new version of the same racquet (I've gone from a Prestige Pro mid to an LM Prestige mid) and it takes me a while to work out the nuances of the new frame. Also, 'feel' changes between racquets so you'd be having to adjust constantly which would stop you finding your groove on shots. Bigger problem though, would be if the more 'demanding' racquet has a smaller headsize.

Best solution, I think, is to stick to one racquet and, when you want things to be more demanding, play someone better than yourself. That will do far more for your game and more quickly raise your skill set than swapping between racquets.

TennsDog
05-31-2005, 07:01 AM
I agree with Mies, it is best not to change equipment like that. The best method is to use the same equipment (racket and strings) each time so you can develop your game using what you will play with.

tom4ny
05-31-2005, 07:06 AM
hehe. some of these posts are too funny. okay, lets also suggest going for winners all the time and trying to hit the ball as hard as you possibly can. it'll force you to use good form and eventually you'll hit more winners and less unforced errors.

obviously i am joking in good fun.

akj27
05-31-2005, 11:40 AM
Thanks!

I was using an aerodrive midplus, i think, not sure, and i was hitting every ball, it's definitely a very forgiving racquet, and today, i tried playing with this old prokennex or whatever its called, and i sucked, most of my balls were going too high


also, ive been using this racquet a lot lately, since its not very forgiving
http://cgi.*********/ws/****ISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22716&item=7159951304&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

lude popper
05-31-2005, 06:13 PM
people tend to overestimate their play with more advanced racquets because they don't expect to play well with them.

esrb
05-31-2005, 07:39 PM
play with the racquet that gives you the best chance of winning all the time.


The same topic abouit playing with a Head I S12 (my wife´s stick)...i do serve a lot better with that "wok" but i do not feel comfortable with the racquet...

MChong
05-31-2005, 07:56 PM
I can say that my forehand and my service technique has improved from making my Diablo more demanding; it lost the whippiness so it makes it so my wrist is forced to stay stable during my forehands and it greatly improved my backhands as well; I think it also might be accredited to the higher weight forcing me to concentrate more.

Simbah2004
07-19-2005, 02:57 PM
I just believe that once you reach a certain level of competition you should get a racquet that helps you, especially after long sets.

louis netman
07-19-2005, 10:49 PM
If you're a good player, you will adjust to any decent frame just by sticking to it and adjusting. I'll admit, I've been demoing alot, not for finding a better mousetrap, but finding one I can play with more often as I have chronic arm issues. Important criteria: as NBMJ says, "find the heaviest racket you can swing for as long as your sessions last while playing a player better than you." Also, go for the racket that has the "feel" you desire. This is what makes tennis fun... the feel of the ball coming off your strings!!!~

bismark
07-19-2005, 11:55 PM
people tend to overestimate their play with more advanced racquets because they don't expect to play well with them.

Haha...quite true. I know some of my tennis buddies are like that.

bismark
07-20-2005, 12:35 AM
If you're a good player, you will adjust to any decent frame just by sticking to it and adjusting. I'll admit, I've been demoing alot, not for finding a better mousetrap, but finding one I can play with more often as I have chronic arm issues. Important criteria: as NBMJ says, "find the heaviest racket you can swing for as long as your sessions last while playing a player better than you." Also, go for the racket that has the "feel" you desire. This is what makes tennis fun... the feel of the ball coming off your strings!!!~

Good point. Good advice.

The perception of "playing with a demanding racquet forces you to improve" is rather misleading. With proper instructions and coaching, a player can improve his fundamentals and techiques regardless what racquet he is using. Just observe the coaching scene within tennis academies, clinics, schools and clubs. Kids and adults (regardless of level) use all types of racquets, from game-improvements to players'. Personal preference dictates their choices, and NOT the aforesaid perception. Honestly, most teaching pros don't tell their students to get a demanding players' stick because it force them to improve!

dunlo
07-20-2005, 02:50 AM
IMO practicing with different racquet will confuse you in the heat of the match!
Youwill look for the response in practice but you are playing with a different thing!!!

tkoets
07-20-2005, 03:17 AM
I'm not sure I understand all the bad mojo coming from NoBadMojo towards BreakPoint. Breakpoint said, "You may have to shorten your strokes to accomodate a more powerful tweener if you're coming from a low-powered player's stick." Of course that's a true statement. You have to either shorten your strokes or put a lot more topspin on the ball to keep it in the court. I always thought it was better to move in the direction of fuller, faster strokes.

There's something deeper at work here. Mojo, chill out dude, the world is not out to get you. Really, we're all just here to have some fun, honest!

dozu
07-20-2005, 09:32 AM
I used to think that a player should use an advanced stick to improve... but then I realize it's only a portion of the progress. if he is playing at 3.0 level with a 110 sq in titanium widebody, I don't see switching to a PS85 would improve his game. The change of racket is integrated with the player's progress. now he is playing at 4.0 level, the balls come a bit harder, and his own skills has improved, he needs more control, so now he plays with a 10.5 oz 100 sq in, a bit heavier, a bit softer, because that titanium widebody wont give him enough control anymore, and the incoming balls become a problem for that 9.5 oz of titanium. later he plays at 4.5 level, and start using a 1hbh, and the balls coming in even harder, and he also needs more control, so he HAS TO switch to a 11.5 oz, 95sq in, this is already in between tweener and players category. finally he joins the 5.0 elite, now the opponents balls come so hard, with so much spin, he must use at least 12.5 oz to counter that, his own strokes become more smooth and need a 90 sq in racket to compliment his game the best.

in my own experience, I started with a 10.5 oz PS85 clone, fooled around as a 3.5, then progressed to the PS85, Dunlop Revelation Tour pro, and Prince TT Vendetta, these things range from 11+ to 12+ oz, and today my hitting partners use rackets ranging from 12.7 to 14.5 oz, a tweener at 11oz would just be knocked out of my hands, so I am now using a 13.3oz to compete with them.

so the bottom line is that I don't think just by forcing yourself into a "player's" frame would help you improving the stroke. the progress comes from lots of practice with players BETTER than you, which force you to play with a style and equipment that can compete at that level.

Ultra2HolyGrail
07-20-2005, 09:46 PM
To get real good at tennis is abought taking lessons early on...Learning proper serve mechanics is the most important....Its all abought proper form....The key is not to develop bad habits.... Its all abought taking lessons, not picking racquets....

Once you learn to play the game right, the racquet doesent make that huge of a difference.....