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tennisinoc
08-22-2010, 08:36 PM
What are the pros and cons of using Synthetic Gut vs. Poly on the crosses?

I am not a string breaker, so durability is not an issue for me.

I like Natural Gut or Multi in my mains.

What is the effect of going from a Synthetic Gut to a Poly on the crosses be?
Also, will I have to drop the tension down on a Poly cross?

Dreamcastin
08-22-2010, 09:01 PM
i know you said your not a string breaker, but you will get longer life from the syn gut due to its better tension maintence. The big diff for me, is the spin i get on serves. the poly crosses really help spin on serve. if your going to use poly crosses, i would string both the mains and crosses lower than if you were going with syn gut. I'm also not a string breaker and have found its actually more cost effective for me in the long run to just string all natural gut. If money was no object, i would string poly crosses, but after about 10 hours i feel poly is garbage. I get countless hours with my all gut setup.

High Roller
08-22-2010, 10:46 PM
I just did a NOS 200G Muscle Weave with Head 16g natural gut mains and 17g Sonic Pro crosses . Both strung at 58 pounds. The comfort, feel and power of the gut were prevalent, but there was a nice dose of control and spin as well, due to the poly crosses. Very, very nice hit.

tennisinoc
09-14-2010, 08:23 PM
Ok so I tried a Poly (BAM) on my cross for the first time and dropped the tension down 10% of my usual set up and guess what?

HATED IT!

I thought you were suppose to get more power and control from Poly's. NOT for me.
My balls were not crossing the service line! Short ball after short ball.
It also felt stiffer like a board with limited feel and control.
I was shocked!

Hi I'm Ray
09-15-2010, 07:48 AM
Ok so I tried a Poly (BAM) on my cross for the first time and dropped the tension down 10% of my usual set up and guess what?

HATED IT!

I thought you were suppose to get more power and control from Poly's. NOT for me.
My balls were not crossing the service line! Short ball after short ball.
It also felt stiffer like a board with limited feel and control.
I was shocked!

Poly is supposed to have less power and is generally stiff feeling, especially at normal tensions

athiker
09-15-2010, 11:33 AM
Ok so I tried a Poly (BAM) on my cross for the first time and dropped the tension down 10% of my usual set up and guess what?

HATED IT!

I thought you were suppose to get more power and control from Poly's. NOT for me.
My balls were not crossing the service line! Short ball after short ball.
It also felt stiffer like a board with limited feel and control.
I was shocked!

Sounds like you have been listening to the commentators on TV who keep talking about all the power from these new strings. I even heard Navratilova talk about the new "nylon" strings players are using today...she apparently is unaware of even the term "poly". Others say poly but talk about the increased power.

I'm no expert from what I've read the racquets are more powerful and the poly strings, with their lower power and lower sliding friction, allow modern players to swing harder, thus imparting greater spin and still keep balls in play.

No doubt modern players are by and large physically stronger as well. I don't think Johnny Mac could have ever taken Nadal in an arm wrestling match on his best day! They have the power, they just need to make good use of it. By upping the spin with poly strings they can hit a hard and heavy ball that stays in the court utilizing a good chunk of their available power.

My 2c from my understanding...YMMV.

http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-nylon-and-polyester/

fuzz nation
09-15-2010, 12:54 PM
Ok so I tried a Poly (BAM) on my cross for the first time and dropped the tension down 10% of my usual set up and guess what?

HATED IT!

I thought you were suppose to get more power and control from Poly's. NOT for me.
My balls were not crossing the service line! Short ball after short ball.
It also felt stiffer like a board with limited feel and control.
I was shocked!

Same experience I had when I tried a poly cross with a multi main in my Prince NXG mid. I used lower tension 'n all that, but it was absolutely horrible for me in its feel and performance.

pvaudio
09-15-2010, 03:54 PM
I use gut mains and poly crosses. Tried SpinX, Turbotwist, Silverstring, and Spiky Shark. Spiky Shark is the ultimate!

TonyB
09-15-2010, 07:51 PM
Ok so I tried a Poly (BAM) on my cross for the first time and dropped the tension down 10% of my usual set up and guess what?

HATED IT!

I thought you were suppose to get more power and control from Poly's. NOT for me.
My balls were not crossing the service line! Short ball after short ball.
It also felt stiffer like a board with limited feel and control.
I was shocked!


That's because the power comes from the crosses. Poly in the crosses provides very little power. Try poly in the mains and a multi or natural gut in the crosses. Then you'll have a serious stringbed.

pvaudio
09-15-2010, 09:27 PM
That's because the power comes from the crosses. Poly in the crosses provides very little power. Try poly in the mains and a multi or natural gut in the crosses. Then you'll have a serious stringbed.
Take two frames: VS Team mains, BAM crosses in frame one, BAM mains in the other, VS Team crosses. Come back and tell me how ridiculous your bolded statement now sounds.

TonyB
09-16-2010, 02:56 AM
Take two frames: VS Team mains, BAM crosses in frame one, BAM mains in the other, VS Team crosses. Come back and tell me how ridiculous your bolded statement now sounds.


Sigh, I've been experimenting with strings for over 3 years. My bolded statement is absolutely 100% correct. There have been many threads here on the forums to support it as well.

If you feel differently, that's your opinion. But facts are facts, and the power and stringbed softness comes from the crosses. Mains deliver the spin and help control the power of the crosses.

dman72
09-16-2010, 06:21 AM
I tried a syn gut main poly crosses setup in my NXG last night for my league match (I normally use Kevlar mains and syn gut crosses, mains 48lbs, crosses 55Lbs)

I had the syn gut mains at 55 and the cheap poly crosses at 50. It kind of reminded me of the Kevlar setup, but a bit more pop on serves. I couldn't really notice a big difference in spin, but often it's your opponent who notices, not you. It wasn't any more or less arm friendly.

I noticed after the string job, comparing with my other raquets with the kevlar and syn gut..there is something to the strings sliding more with the poly. If I manually slide the kevlar across the syn guy, it moves, but it stays put where it has moved for the most part, and you can hear the scraping. The syn gut, if I manually pull it across the poly...it moves right back into place and makes no sound. So, there are definitely major differences between how the different strings interact.

DEH
09-16-2010, 11:20 AM
Sigh, I've been experimenting with strings for over 3 years. My bolded statement is absolutely 100% correct. There have been many threads here on the forums to support it as well.

If you feel differently, that's your opinion. But facts are facts, and the power and stringbed softness comes from the crosses. Mains deliver the spin and help control the power of the crosses.

Here is a thread that says different.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=302993

TonyB
09-16-2010, 12:43 PM
Here is a thread that says different.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=302993


Uh, yeah, nice poll. Unfortunately, 99% of the respondents are just regurgitating what they've read on the forums without actually doing any personal experimentation.

Also, what's more instructive about the uselessness of that poll is that EVERY CATEGORY is led by the main strings. Crosses are second in every single aspect of the stringbed. Logic alone tells you that can't be true. Spin, comfort, control, power, etc. can't ALL be driven by the main strings.

Besides, how do you have power and control BOTH be dictated by the main strings. Makes no sense.

The real breakdown (from my own scientific study) is:

Power: crosses
Spin: mains
Comfort: crosses
Control: mains
Feel: mains (can be subjective, as the crosses provide comfort, but the mains are longer and transmit more vibrations)

pvaudio
09-16-2010, 01:00 PM
Uh, yeah, nice poll. Unfortunately, 99% of the respondents are just regurgitating what they've read on the forums without actually doing any personal experimentation.

Also, what's more instructive about the uselessness of that poll is that EVERY CATEGORY is led by the main strings. Crosses are second in every single aspect of the stringbed. Logic alone tells you that can't be true. Spin, comfort, control, power, etc. can't ALL be driven by the main strings.

Besides, how do you have power and control BOTH be dictated by the main strings. Makes no sense.

The real breakdown (from my own scientific study) is:

Power: crosses
Spin: mains
Comfort: crosses
Control: mains
Feel: mains (can be subjective, as the crosses provide comfort, but the mains are longer and transmit more vibrations)
The crosses are there to complement or sometimes supplement the qualities of the mains. This is why it's useless to play with a cheap poly main for good spin that's harsh then go and use VS Team crosses instead of a soft syn gut to soften it up. If you wanted power, you would have used the gut in the mains.

pvaudio
09-16-2010, 01:01 PM
And I'm sorry, but in either case, elementary physics is against you unless your frame is wider than it is long.

mtommer
09-16-2010, 01:15 PM
I thought you were suppose to get more power and control from Poly's.

As mentioned already, you get less power but greater control from spin. I suspect you get greater spin because one is swinging harder. The thing is, it's not like you can just go, oh, a little bit faster with your swing to get the depth you want. You have to swing noticably (for you) faster. The faster you swing, the more any little hitches in your stroke get applified. But, if you can smooth out your technique, you'll be hitting a harder and faster ball.

TonyB
09-16-2010, 01:20 PM
The crosses are there to complement or sometimes supplement the qualities of the mains. This is why it's useless to play with a cheap poly main for good spin that's harsh then go and use VS Team crosses instead of a soft syn gut to soften it up. If you wanted power, you would have used the gut in the mains.


It's obvious you've never played with the both gut/poly AND poly/gut because you would never make that statement if you had.

A stiff string in the mains and a soft string in the crosses is EXACTLY what you want if you want to soften the stringbed and add power to complement the spin that's generated by the mains.

TonyB
09-16-2010, 01:23 PM
And I'm sorry, but in either case, elementary physics is against you unless your frame is wider than it is long.


I'm pretty sure my total number of credit hours of college physics is at least twice yours (if you even have any at all), considering I have both an engineering degree and a certificate of education in secondary science with a physics concentration. But besides that, it's obvious that you've got your mind made up regardless of whatever information I give you here on the forums. So this is my last post on the subject.

pvaudio
09-16-2010, 01:26 PM
I'm pretty sure my total number of credit hours of college physics is at least twice yours (if you even have any at all), considering I have both an engineering degree and a certificate of education in secondary science with a physics concentration. But besides that, it's obvious that you've got your mind made up regardless of whatever information I give you here on the forums. So this is my last post on the subject.Graduate school, electrical engineering, EE undergrad with minor in neuroscience and engineering physics. So, I can match your level of science quite easily.

mtommer
09-16-2010, 01:28 PM
Oo, ooo, I have a Mech Eng degree. Can I play too? :D

pvaudio
09-16-2010, 01:57 PM
Oo, ooo, I have a Mech Eng degree. Can I play too? :D
As long as you don't bring the thermodynamic properties of natural gut into it :D

tennisinoc
09-16-2010, 10:41 PM
I never thought this post would stir up such an intellectual debate :)

All I know is: through my testing of trying a lower tension co-poly on my crosses vs. a higher tension basic Synthetic Gut, my balls were landing significantly shorter. If I swung faster to try to place it deeper, I lost control. It could be a number of things affecting the trajectory, but in the end, using poly in my crosses did not benefit my game.

So I cut them out and replaced them with syn gut and now I can hit deep again.

pvaudio
09-17-2010, 04:59 AM
Your poly is neutering the power of the mains in your case. You like the spin generated by the poly, so keep the poly in the main. Guys like me, kiteboard, and hell, Federer use gut mains because we like the effortless power that gut provides, and the ability for a good poly to keep it under control. The other way around works just as well, but in that case, why bother spending all the money on natural gut and not just a nice syn gut?

ace0001a
09-17-2010, 07:27 AM
I grew up playing on the crispiness of synthetic gut and only recently decided to try Poly, but in hybrid form. I tried it both ways with Poly in the mains and in the crosses and personally I prefer it in the mains. To me, it doesn't feel as good with the poly in the crosses. I also tend to believe that spin is more produced by the mains then the crosses. To me, the logic is that you put poly in the mains because it's less likely to move around and therefore does a better job of keeping consistent spacing between each other allowing for better spin production as well as more durability in the mains since those are usually the strings that break first. A softer string is then used for the crosses to tame the stiffness of the poly, add some feel back as well as being less critical for durability since again, it is usually the mains the will break first.

DEH
09-17-2010, 11:18 AM
Uh, yeah, nice poll. Unfortunately, 99% of the respondents are just regurgitating what they've read on the forums without actually doing any personal experimentation.

Also, what's more instructive about the uselessness of that poll is that EVERY CATEGORY is led by the main strings. Crosses are second in every single aspect of the stringbed. Logic alone tells you that can't be true. Spin, comfort, control, power, etc. can't ALL be driven by the main strings.

Besides, how do you have power and control BOTH be dictated by the main strings. Makes no sense.

The real breakdown (from my own scientific study) is:

Power: crosses
Spin: mains
Comfort: crosses
Control: mains
Feel: mains (can be subjective, as the crosses provide comfort, but the mains are longer and transmit more vibrations)

I don't really know what is right I am learning right along with everybody else. So here is one more thread to chew on.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=347846

Why did his power go up with less strings in the crosses?

JackB1
09-17-2010, 11:31 AM
80% of the stringbeds feel and overall play characteristics come from the longer main strings. A gut mains/poly cross will be a lot more powerful than a poly mains/gut cross. There is 100% fact in that statement.

Power Player
09-17-2010, 11:35 AM
Gut mains and poly crosses must be so nice. It seems very popular on the tour. But now with the soft polys, it seems a lot of folks are just going full poly.

JT_2eighty
09-17-2010, 11:36 AM
Besides, how do you have power and control BOTH be dictated by the main strings. Makes no sense.

The real breakdown (from my own scientific study) is:

Power: crosses
Spin: mains
Comfort: crosses
Control: mains
Feel: mains (can be subjective, as the crosses provide comfort, but the mains are longer and transmit more vibrations)

While I don't disagree with you, I would be wary of assigning one attribute to half the stringbed or the other. And I'm sure you realize this, and maybe simply meant, the "majority of x is from y", as in, the majority of power is from crosses, the majority of spin is from mains. Once you string up a hybrid or not, you still end up with *a stringbed*. Power, comfort & feel cannot simply come from one half or another.

Spin, for instance, is based on how the mains interact with the crosses. (see the COF stuff on TWU).

Control can't just be from mains, because if I take one racquet with Full Gut, then another with identical Gut Mains, and add Poly Crosses, I will increase control by swapping just the crosses.

Same with comfort. Take a full poly, then swap the mains for gut. You will most definitely have better comfort, but all you did was change the mains.

My point is we need to be careful in simplifying the complex nature of a stringbed into two unrelated halves, which is most likely not your point, but it comes across that way. Once you string them in a complete stringbed, you really cannot talk about one half as separate from the other, a hybrid is all about how each half INTERACTS with the other.

Just my opinion and experience.