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View Full Version : What's with these "weird" tie-off locations for crosses?


Hidious
08-22-2010, 08:49 PM
I have been stringing a lot of different racquets lately and i am always stunned when the stringing pattern wants me to tie off the crosses on another cross, the one right next to the first main. These spots are tight and appear to me as the worst location to tie-off the crosses. I don't have enough room for a parnell knot and the last main is not straight anymore because there is a knot in the way and it pushes on it.

Definitely not a big deal but a lot of racquets have these tie-off locations for crosses. So many holes available, why this one?

Anybody know what i'm talking about?

jim e
08-23-2010, 04:32 AM
I have been stringing a lot of different racquets lately and i am always stunned when the stringing pattern wants me to tie off the crosses on another cross, the one right next to the first main. These spots are tight and appear to me as the worst location to tie-off the crosses. I don't have enough room for a parnell knot and the last main is not straight anymore because there is a knot in the way and it pushes on it.

Definitely not a big deal but a lot of racquets have these tie-off locations for crosses. So many holes available, why this one?

Anybody know what i'm talking about?

Use a smaller knot for those places. The PC knot works nice, and you can see that one done by YUlitle on you tube, under PC knot, as he shows that nice.Also Irvin has a video on these boards showing knots and he shows the Wilson knot, and the Wilson knot is small knot that would work nice as well.Both are very similar knots.

Irvin
08-23-2010, 05:00 AM
With the advent of poly string many players do not want to tie off a poly string on a gut string so some manufacturers (like Babolat) has the mains tie off on the mains and the crosses tie off on the crosses but not for all rackets in their lines.

Irvin

Rabbit
08-23-2010, 05:11 AM
I was taught to always tie off on a cross when you have the choice.

Virtua Tennis
08-23-2010, 02:40 PM
The wilson string team at the open says always the 3rd cross

Hidious
08-23-2010, 08:10 PM
With the advent of poly string many players do not want to tie off a poly string on a gut string so some manufacturers (like Babolat) has the mains tie off on the mains and the crosses tie off on the crosses but not for all rackets in their lines.

Irvin

Makes sense, but why choose this particular cross when the next one higher up would be a lot more convenient? They're just playing with us stringers, i suppose... :):confused:

4sound
08-23-2010, 09:48 PM
deleted. wrong post

High Roller
08-23-2010, 10:33 PM
With the advent of poly string many players do not want to tie off a poly string on a gut string so some manufacturers (like Babolat) has the mains tie off on the mains and the crosses tie off on the crosses but not for all rackets in their lines.

Irvin

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Babolat's hinky final cross tie-offs on two-piece jobs.

Irvin
08-24-2010, 04:34 AM
This has nothing whatsoever to do with Babolat's hinky final cross tie-offs on two-piece jobs.

I'm sorry but I have no idea of what you are talking about. Just like the OP if you could be more specific maybe you could get a more direct answer.

Here is what I was talking about when I mentioned a cross string with the tie off starting on a cross.

http://www.babolat.com/media/tennis/stringing_pattern/Pure_Storm.pdf

Could you tell me what you think is so hinky about the final cross tie off? Maybe you have another specific racket in mind.

Hidious
08-24-2010, 10:49 PM
Irvin, take this PureStorm diagram and pretend it's another racquet. Weaving the crosses from head to throat, as usual, the tie-off for crosses would be on line 36, very close to the last main string.

It's not difficult to tie it off there, it's just a tighter space than usual requiring a little more concentration and hand dexterity. Like another poster has mentioned, my usual parnell knot should be avoided for these spots since it's a little too bulky and puts some unnecessary pressure on the last main.

I encountered this oddity on a couple of different racquet but i mostly remember that Babolat Drive Z Lites and Drive Z Tours tie-off like this. Maybe i could take a pic next time. Life would just be easier for lazy stringers like me if the knot was intended for line 35 instead of 36 on this example diagram.

/Rant, I shall move on now :)

Lakers4Life
08-24-2010, 11:38 PM
^^^Aero Pro Drives are like that, a tight tie off next to a main.

Irvin
08-25-2010, 03:20 AM
Irvin, take this PureStorm diagram and pretend it's another racquet. Weaving the crosses from head to throat, as usual, the tie-off for crosses would be on line 36, very close to the last main string.

It's not difficult to tie it off there, it's just a tighter space than usual requiring a little more concentration and hand dexterity. Like another poster has mentioned, my usual parnell knot should be avoided for these spots since it's a little too bulky and puts some unnecessary pressure on the last main.

I encountered this oddity on a couple of different racquet but i mostly remember that Babolat Drive Z Lites and Drive Z Tours tie-off like this. Maybe i could take a pic next time. Life would just be easier for lazy stringers like me if the knot was intended for line 35 instead of 36 on this example diagram.

/Rant, I shall move on now :)

You could not possibly be talking about a tie like the one below could you?

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp304/Irvin44_2008/HPIM3038.jpg

LOL just happended to have one like this a few days ago. I noticed right off that something was wrong with this racket when I seen one main and the last cross both tied off in the same hole. I wondered why they did that until I seen the cross tie off. I planned to have the cross tie off on the hole where my cross would have ended up on top of the main but Murphy's Law jumped up just about the same time. If anything can go wrong it will. If the cross is on top when you tighten the knot it will slide over the main and back when you tighten it. I use a Pro knot and it seems to work well on this situation too as it holds as well as the Parnell but is a little smaller. Another thing you could do is tie the knot from the bottom - but that is a little tricky. I tied my knot from the bottom.

Irvin

Irvin
08-25-2010, 07:50 AM
^^ Remembering that experience I had with the Wilson about today I was stringing a AeroPro Drive two piece. Same problem, the tie off hole is very close to the outside main. I decided to make a video of how to tie off that knot. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WILK_BwWCE

Irvin

nyc
08-25-2010, 07:58 AM
Wilson KBT has a tie-off like that - annoying as hell.

So now that I'm switching to Volkl PB10 mid, guess what? Same issue.

lucky me.

Irvin
08-25-2010, 08:09 AM
^^ If these knots bother you, you really need to look at the video I make. It is really pretty simple to tie these knots if you plan for them.

Irvin

Hidious
08-25-2010, 09:41 AM
Irvin, thanks for the pic, that's exactly what i'm talking about. I knew Wilson and Babolat did this but Volkl too now? This is starting to look like a conspiracy to annoy stringers :)

I may have missed something here, but does anyone have any idea WHY they choose this particular location for the tie-off? It's certainly not for convenience or aesthetics but there must be a good reason for this since it seems like more and more racquets are like that, especially the newer models. Why not choose the next cross higher up or the previous one lower down and make our life easier? Would that really change anything?

Very nice of you to make a vid Irvin but i honestly don't think there are any stringers out there who are bothered enough with this to the point that they'll look for help. It's just a small annoyance, nothing more.

Irvin
08-25-2010, 10:04 AM
^^ I think the point they chose to tie off the crosses is a good point but before I say why let's look at the pattern.

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp304/Irvin44_2008/Untitled.png

Let's say you are trying to find the best point to tie off the bottom cross on the racket above. You want to find a hole that is close to the exit point of the string (8T) to reduce drawback and you want a hole that is not partially blocked by another string angled through the grommet. 9t and 7T are out because the mains string are angled through the grommet holes. 6T is already in use as a main tie off, and 5T has another angled string. 4T is too far away therefore, the most logical point would be 10T.

My thinking may be off a bit but the point they used seems logical to me.

Irvin

Hidious
08-25-2010, 10:20 AM
It makes sense Irvin but then again, i've strung a bunch of racquets who had their tie-off on the side at 12T, 13T and even 14T. Maybe they adopted your way of thinking (the part about finding a hole that is close to the exit point of the string (8T) to reduce drawback) after-wards for later models, i don't know.

For this APD example, i still think 11T would have been a lot more convenient than 10T. It's not like a centimeter higher would have a big impact on drawback, or would it?

Irvin
08-25-2010, 10:54 AM
^^ I can't agrue with that.

Irvin

JackB1
08-26-2010, 12:05 PM
The PB10 MP has a last cross tie off like this. The space to pull it through is barely larger that the diameter of the knot.

uk_skippy
08-31-2010, 09:26 AM
There is an easy way around the bottome cross tie-off problem on Babolat rqts like the APD/APDC/APD GT & PD/PDC/PD GT and thats to trim the grommet down. I do this and it then makes it easy to fit in the tie-off knot. I use the Parnell knot and have no problem using this method.

Another method which helps when stringing hybrids on these rqts is how you weave the 1st cross. If you make sure that the 1st weave by the top tie-off is an 'under', then the outside main by the 2nd from bottom cross (the anchor string for the knot) will also be an under. This means that you can tie the knot in the next adjacent square and slide it 'under' what appears to be an obstructing string.

Hope this helps

Regards

Paul

Irvin
08-31-2010, 10:30 AM
^^ All that is in my video but rather than trimming the grommet down I would suggest flaring it out.

Irvin

uk_skippy
08-31-2010, 03:04 PM
Irvin, sorry I hadn't watched your vid. Apologies if I repeated anything you've already mentioned.

Regards

Paul

beernutz
08-31-2010, 07:04 PM
This may be the nicest forum on the Internets.

neverstopplaying
10-14-2010, 07:50 PM
^^ If these knots bother you, you really need to look at the video I make. It is really pretty simple to tie these knots if you plan for them.

Irvin

Thanks for posting this video. I screwed up my string job ever stringing a friend's new APDC as the knot tightened on itself BEFORE tightening the last cross. I was using Blue Gear which made it harder and impossible to fix now.

I'll redo this one for tomorrow.

banter
11-15-2010, 06:56 PM
I appreciate the tie-off advice. I will try some of the tips provided with my next string job, but on my KBT I doubt I'll be able to tie it off the cross where it is suggested. Can I have my cross tie off hit and move main?

Irvin
11-16-2010, 01:33 AM
When you tie your cross it is better you have your knot slide over the main when you tighten it. I am assuming you are talking about your cross is running under the main. Then when you pull the knot tight the knot is below the main and the tail hits and moves the mains. That keeps you from getting all the slack out of the string unless you pull more than once.

Irvin

Centryx
11-16-2010, 09:51 AM
Quick question for you irvin.
I watched your video and you are starting your crosses on the top but the schematic has it going from bottom to top? is there a preference going top to bottom or bottom to top for the integrity of the racket?

thanks in advance

Irvin
11-16-2010, 09:55 AM
^^ Without a doubt I prefer to go from top to bottom ALWAYS. Which video are you talking about?

Irvin

Centryx
11-16-2010, 09:57 AM
the one you posted in this thread. so even if the schematic says start bottom to top then you still do it the other way?

Irvin
11-16-2010, 10:05 AM
Well now that schematic by Babolat is a little confusing I agree. If you look at it there are two different colored string for the mains and crosses. There is also an option for two piece or one piece if you look real close. I contacted babolat and they said it is always best to go top to bottom so I strung that racket two piece which goes top to bottom. Hope that makes sense.

Irvin

Centryx
11-16-2010, 10:06 AM
ahh ok I see I was doing it the other way since I was following the numbers but bottom to top if it was a one piece job would have been correct i assume?

Irvin
11-16-2010, 10:12 AM
One piece on Babolat is OK but two piece is reccomended per Babolat. BUT that may run into a problem where the tie off knot for the bottom cross does not have much room. Pay attention to video on how to start two piece crosses or you could run into a small problem.

Irvin

Centryx
11-16-2010, 12:40 PM
thanks Irvin I have been doing 2 piece jobs from the bottom up guess I will try it the other way.

jim e
11-16-2010, 04:46 PM
When you tie your cross it is better you have your knot slide over the main when you tighten it. I am assuming you are talking about your cross is running under the main. Then when you pull the knot tight the knot is below the main and the tail hits and moves the mains. That keeps you from getting all the slack out of the string unless you pull more than once.

Irvin

Hi Irvin,
Have you ever thought of tying your knot underneath the racquet when the main is in the way to slide it over. In otherwords, if you prefer to tie a PC, Wilson, or even a Parnell, instead of going over under and through, just go under over and through each time, and pull from underneath, the loop will then slide over the proper side of the main, and you can still cinch it up nice just from underneath is all, rather than planning on the tie off having the main end under the cross string that you are tying the knot to.Seems easier to just tie it and cinch from under. Just as easy. So without planning for this, there is a 50/ 50 chance of the knot needing to be tied under is all.Only thing this way the tail is on the other side of the racquet than the way the other knots are.I know your suppose to mount the racquet with the butt cap up, so all knots are on the same side as far as the tails are concerned, but I'm sure that when it comes down to it, it really does not matter for one tie off that the tail is pointing on the other side of the racquet.

banter
11-16-2010, 07:31 PM
Thanks Irvin.

What if the tie-off actually puts pressure on one of the mains?
This is a pic of a stringjob done by a local shop. I've been playing with the racquet and it doesn't seem to affect performance.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/971/img3301t.jpg

Irvin
11-17-2010, 12:58 AM
Hi Irvin,
Have you ever thought of tying your knot underneath the racquet when the main is in the way to slide it over....

I sure have 'jim e' and that is a good method. my problem is with fixed clamps the clamps get in the way some times and it just seems wierd to tie from underneath.

Thanks Irvin.

What if the tie-off actually puts pressure on one of the mains?
This is a pic of a stringjob done by a local shop. I've been playing with the racquet and it doesn't seem to affect performance.

I do not think that is a problem it just does not look as good. Instead of tying a large knot if the stringer had tied a smaller knot like the Wilson knot it would have looked better. But here again is the issue I was talking about. The cross is under the main with the knot looking as though it was tied from the top. There is really no way to tell. The knot could have been tied from below as 'jim e' suggested and them pulled around so it looks like it was tied from the top. But this racket was strung on a stringer with fixed clamps and it looks like the clamps would have been in the way of properly tightening the knot. I don't think there is a problem there except for how it looks.

I believe you said you had a Wilson racket. Wilson allows you to string the racket from bottom to top or you can do an ATW pattern. Depending on what ATW pattern your there could be no knot at the bottom and the grommet hole you used to tie off the mains (6T) would have been available to avoid the problem on 11T completely.

Irvin

spacediver
05-03-2011, 02:00 AM
just came across this problem today as I strung my kblade tour for the first time. I avoided the problem by using the knot shown in my klippermate manual. Dunno what it's called, but looks like what might be a double hitch or something. Anyway, key thing is that you can use it to tie off your crosses to the main.