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View Full Version : How is my NTRP affected by playing Self rated players???


SmoothOperator
08-24-2010, 01:47 PM
I don't think I've ever seen this covered so I thought I would throw it out there. In my local playoffs, 3 out of the 4 people I played ( 2 doubles matches) were self rated. So my question, how does playing self rated players affect your rating if they haven't yet played three matches?

OrangePower
08-24-2010, 02:21 PM
It does not.

EDIT: I take it back. It does not impact your rating until such time as the self rate has a dynamic rating. But now I don't remember if they already have a dynamic rating after the first match or only after three matches.

Bedrock
08-24-2010, 02:24 PM
There is seeding and ranking. The ranking is available only by the end of the year. I believe your question about seeding which gets updated at least once a month.

In order to become eligible for seeding enough to win one match and have completed at least three matches.

Since they did not have any records, their seeding is going to be calculated based on yours. Obviously they will get right before you :)
But as long as they do not satisfy conditions to get qualified for seeding, they will be listed in a list of ineligible players.

J_R_B
08-25-2010, 04:02 AM
It does not.

EDIT: I take it back. It does not impact your rating until such time as the self rate has a dynamic rating. But now I don't remember if they already have a dynamic rating after the first match or only after three matches.

I'm pretty sure you get a dynamic rating after just one match, but you need three to get a computer rating at the end of the year.

rainman007
08-25-2010, 08:12 AM
I think you get a dynamic rating after three matches.. I think the usta says your ntrp is 50 percent from your year end rating and 50 percent from your last three matches.. It is confusing though.. I think if your self rated and you only play adult or mixed if you play two matches you still get a year end rating..

The original question is a good one though.. At first I always though it didn't affect you at all if your opponent didn't have a dynamic rating the match was solely to establish what the self rates rating is.. Later I heard that self rates ratings works in reverse if you play them before they have a dynamic rating.. So, if you play a self rate locally say the 1st match and beat them and then that self rate later goes on to hammer people at sectionals then the rating is calculated in reverse and the 1st match you played moved your dynamic rating higher.. So, i'm not sure how self rates affect you either ive heard different things thats a good question..
I DO KNOW THE USTA NEEDS TO COUNT ALL MATCHES.. ITS A DOUBLE STANDARD TO ALLOW A SELF RATE TO BE DYNAMICALLY DQ'D DURING ADULT, BUT IF YOU SELF RATE DURING MIXED YOU CANNOT BE DQ'D yet YOU GET A YEAR END RATING IF YOU PLAY MIXED ONLY..

Bedrock
08-25-2010, 08:31 AM
I'm pretty sure you get a dynamic rating after just one match, but you need three to get a computer rating at the end of the year.

To get year-end ranking player must complete three tournaments (not matches) To complete a tournament player must at least start the last match played on that tournament. Three completed matches are required to become eligible for seeding :) All I'm saying related to sectional ranking and seeding lists. National ranking is a different animal.
It is all described on USTA web-site.

J_R_B
08-25-2010, 09:27 AM
To get year-end ranking player must complete three tournaments (not matches) To complete a tournament player must at least start the last match played on that tournament. Three completed matches are required to become eligible for seeding :) All I'm saying related to sectional ranking and seeding lists. National ranking is a different animal.
It is all described on USTA web-site.

The question is about your NTRP rating, not tournament rank.

J_R_B
08-25-2010, 09:29 AM
I think you get a dynamic rating after three matches.. I think the usta says your ntrp is 50 percent from your year end rating and 50 percent from your last three matches.. It is confusing though.. I think if your self rated and you only play adult or mixed if you play two matches you still get a year end rating..

The original question is a good one though.. At first I always though it didn't affect you at all if your opponent didn't have a dynamic rating the match was solely to establish what the self rates rating is.. Later I heard that self rates ratings works in reverse if you play them before they have a dynamic rating.. So, if you play a self rate locally say the 1st match and beat them and then that self rate later goes on to hammer people at sectionals then the rating is calculated in reverse and the 1st match you played moved your dynamic rating higher.. So, i'm not sure how self rates affect you either ive heard different things thats a good question..
I DO KNOW THE USTA NEEDS TO COUNT ALL MATCHES.. ITS A DOUBLE STANDARD TO ALLOW A SELF RATE TO BE DYNAMICALLY DQ'D DURING ADULT, BUT IF YOU SELF RATE DURING MIXED YOU CANNOT BE DQ'D yet YOU GET A YEAR END RATING IF YOU PLAY MIXED ONLY..

If you get an M-rating at the end of the year, you can still be DQ'd in adult the next year, though. Only B and C ratings are immune from DQ.

Bedrock
08-25-2010, 10:36 AM
I did not say anything about tournament rank. Seeding for some reason it is called just a seeding and nothing else(not dynamic rating – check USTA web-site), is a monthly calculated "ranking".
"NTRP rating" -
1) ranking is calculated only once a year. 2) Seeding calculated every months.
Eligibility conditions I have described.

I hope I answered your question before:
“There is seeding and ranking. The ranking is available only by the end of the year. I believe your question about seeding which gets updated at least once a month.

In order to become eligible for seeding enough to win one match and have completed at least three matches.

Since they did not have any records, their seeding is going to be calculated based on yours. Obviously they will get right before you
But as long as they do not satisfy conditions to get qualified for seeding, they will be listed in a list of ineligible players.”

J_R_B
08-25-2010, 10:48 AM
To get year-end ranking player must complete three tournaments (not matches) To complete a tournament player must at least start the last match played on that tournament. Three completed matches are required to become eligible for seeding :) All I'm saying related to sectional ranking and seeding lists. National ranking is a different animal.
It is all described on USTA web-site.

Dude, whether you realize it or not, you're talking about something totally different than the OP. NTRP rating for league play has nothing to do with tournaments or sectional seeding or ranking lists.

Bedrock
08-25-2010, 12:27 PM
Ok,
What is OP?

J_R_B
08-25-2010, 12:53 PM
Ok,
What is OP?

OP is Original Poster or Original Premise, which in this case was a question about the effect of playing self-rated players on your NTRP rating for league play.

I think you get a dynamic rating after three matches.. I think the usta says your ntrp is 50 percent from your year end rating and 50 percent from your last three matches.. It is confusing though.. I think if your self rated and you only play adult or mixed if you play two matches you still get a year end rating..

http://www.usta.com/Play-Tennis/USTA-League/Information/1482_Dynamic_NTRP/

According to this, you get a dynamic rating after your first match against a "player who has an NTRP computer rating". It's not 100% clear from that statement whether this means a computer-rated player (C rated or presumably B rated as well) or a player with a rating in the computer, which could also include T, M, A, and D rated players as well. I assume it means that latter, so the only match where no dynamic rating would be generated would be two self-rates both playing their first USTA match.

Bedrock
08-25-2010, 01:56 PM
OP does not say anything about "league play", besides USTA-league itself.

Topaz
08-25-2010, 02:14 PM
OP does not say anything about "league play", besides USTA-league itself.

NTRP is a RATING, not a ranking. National Tennis RATING Program.

There are NTRP leagues and NTRP tournaments. Neither of which give a hoot about a ranking.

Two completely different things.

Bedrock
08-25-2010, 03:54 PM
NTRP is a RATING, not a ranking. National Tennis RATING Program.

There are NTRP leagues and NTRP tournaments. Neither of which give a hoot about a ranking.

Two completely different things.

How about NTRP 5.0 year-end ranking :)

Bedrock
08-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Here is example of what I'm talking about:
Men's 5.0 Singles Seedings:
http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/rankings/rankinglists.aspx?id=780768

Men's 4.0 Singles Rankings:
http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/rankings/rankinglists.aspx?id=698599

It is seeding and ranking.
What are you talking abou?

rainman007
08-25-2010, 07:24 PM
OP does not say anything about "league play", besides USTA-league itself.

They said playoffs which indicates league play, not tournaments or seeding or anything like that.. they are talking about ratings not rankings or seeds..

amarone
08-26-2010, 03:41 AM
I don't think I've ever seen this covered so I thought I would throw it out there. In my local playoffs, 3 out of the 4 people I played ( 2 doubles matches) were self rated. So my question, how does playing self rated players affect your rating if they haven't yet played three matches?
A self-rated player needs to have played at least two matches before your result against him/her affects your own rating.

Bedrock
08-26-2010, 07:31 AM
They said playoffs which indicates league play, not tournaments or seeding or anything like that.. they are talking about ratings not rankings or seeds..

Is it possible to get a reference to one?

J_R_B
08-26-2010, 08:51 AM
Is it possible to get a reference to one?

http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/NTRP/SearchResults.asp?Search=Name&LastName=smith&FirstName=mike&SearchType=X&submit2=+Go+

This is the NTRP rating for all of the Mike Smiths in the USTA computer. It gives the rating (3.0, 3.5, etc) and the rating type (B, C, M, S, etc). The question was about what happens when you only play USTA league matches against players with an S rating type.