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kato669
08-27-2010, 06:31 AM
Not sure if this was posted but there was a NPR radio show segment on Joe Heydt and his quest to be a US Open and pro tournament stringer. It's a good listen and I found it fascinating on what it takes to be a stringer at a grand slam or masters 1000 tournament.

http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_1111_Joe__Heydt.mp3/view

rufusbgood
08-27-2010, 11:24 AM
Thanks for posting. Interesting story and well told.

One part of the story that didn't sit well with me is the notion that this guy had to string 2 racquets in succession that would produce identical tones. Doesn't strike me as the least bit scientific. Scientific would be to produce 2 string jobs in succession that produced identical tones 10 seconds after each was dismounted from the machine. Spaced 1/2 hr apart, striking them against one another I would expect them to produce different tones, with the more recently strung racquet pitched higher. Seems even more bizarre that he got them to produce identical tones with a second try.

kato669
08-27-2010, 02:44 PM
Thanks for posting. Interesting story and well told.

One part of the story that didn't sit well with me is the notion that this guy had to string 2 racquets in succession that would produce identical tones. Doesn't strike me as the least bit scientific. Scientific would be to produce 2 string jobs in succession that produced identical tones 10 seconds after each was dismounted from the machine. Spaced 1/2 hr apart, striking them against one another I would expect them to produce different tones, with the more recently strung racquet pitched higher. Seems even more bizarre that he got them to produce identical tones with a second try.

Agreed, I didn't quite get the testing method, epecially since they are in a room of of 6-8 Baraidos so we know money isn't an object. But then again, they are probably old school in certain aspects (though I think an ERT or other tension tester would be more suitable to the task).

Noodles
08-27-2010, 02:48 PM
I think that testing them 1/2 an hour apart actually makes sense. It makes sense because he would be giving the racquets to the player at least a half an hour after he strung them. The stringer would want to make them all the same tension when he gave them to the player, no?

WildVolley
08-27-2010, 03:07 PM
I learned something. I didn't know that anyone cared about which way the racket was facing with respect to the butt-cap when mounting it in the machine.

Is that something you professional stringers worry about?

Virtua Tennis
08-27-2010, 07:58 PM
I learned something. I didn't know that anyone cared about which way the racket was facing with respect to the butt-cap when mounting it in the machine.

Is that something you professional stringers worry about?

Uh yeah logo must be facing you in a upright position. Cause all stringers string the racquet the same way and all knots will end up on the same side and be identicle to each other. You string 5 racquets for one player they must all match in feel and looks.

A story they told me Chang was so anal about his racquets he expected the "P" must be pointing to the tie off knots.

drakulie
08-27-2010, 10:18 PM
I learned something. I didn't know that anyone cared about which way the racket was facing with respect to the butt-cap when mounting it in the machine.

Is that something you professional stringers worry about?

I always string frames upside right. This way my tie-offs are always in the same location, and every frame is consistent.

I actually made a comment about this in the TW String Speed Video thread. One of the two stringers mounted the Prince frame upside down. Doesn't really affect the playability though.

rufusbgood
08-27-2010, 10:35 PM
Anyone besides me thinking this wasn't so much a test as a game the veterans like to play with the "FNG"?

drakulie
08-27-2010, 10:53 PM
^^Possibly. What I was thinking is the "ping test" wasn't performed correctly.

If you perform the "ping test" once the second frame is off the machine, the second frame will have a higher tone than the first one because of the loss of tension on the first frame.

Either that, or the guy checking the frame doesn't realize this, which is hard to believe with all his experience.

wally
08-28-2010, 08:53 PM
^^Possibly. What I was thinking is the "ping test" wasn't performed correctly.

If you perform the "ping test" once the second frame is off the machine, the second frame will have a higher tone than the first one because of the loss of tension on the first frame.

Either that, or the guy checking the frame doesn't realize this, which is hard to believe with all his experience.

I'm going to disagree on this one - these 'ping' tested frames were strung back to back @ the same tension with the same string. His fasted stated time to string is 10min 14sec so lets say he took 15min per frame. The time differential between frames isn't that great. (I finish racquet 1 and 15min later I finish racquet 2). The tension loss between the 2 due to time is insignificant.

On a different note I've always rotated my frames when I string. I'll string it logo up the first time and logo down the second. This means I'm not beating up the same tie off holes every time I string. I realize for the pros having everything the same every time matters. As for me I like my grommet strips to last a bit longer

drakulie
08-28-2010, 09:21 PM
Wally, this is an intersting topic, especially considering there has never been a device invented to determine the exact tension of a frame, once it has been dismounted.

There is however devices such as the ERT, string meter, RDC machine, and the "ear", etc, which could provide "reference" as to the tension.

There are also many variables that could effect the final outcome of a frames tension. One variable could be the wear and tear on one frame vs another. Of course, I am talking about 2 frames that are identical (for example, two Wilson k95's)

We also do not know at what rate strings lose tennsion once dismounted, or even if they are already losing tenion while in the frame. For example, have the first two mains already begun to stretch and relax by the time we are on cross number 5??? We don't know. But, we do know they are already losing tension once dismounted.

With so many variables, it would be logical to conclude, that a frame that has been strung, and then sitting around for 10,15,20 minutes has lost more tension throughout the overall string bed, than one that was just dismounted (all things being equal: string, frame, tension, stringing machine, stringer). With this fact, we know that no two frames would have the same pitch when conducting the "pinging test", unless the second one was strung tighter.

as I said, very interesting discussion.

jazar
08-29-2010, 06:52 AM
very interesting story. sounds like my road to stringing at wimbledon was a breeze compared to this guys journey.

Wally, this is an intersting topic, especially considering there has never been a device invented to determine the exact tension of a frame, once it has been dismounted.

There is however devices such as the ERT, string meter, RDC machine, and the "ear", etc, which could provide "reference" as to the tension.

There are also many variables that could effect the final outcome of a frames tension. One variable could be the wear and tear on one frame vs another. Of course, I am talking about 2 frames that are identical (for example, two Wilson k95's)

We also do not know at what rate strings lose tennsion once dismounted, or even if they are already losing tenion while in the frame. For example, have the first two mains already begun to stretch and relax by the time we are on cross number 5??? We don't know. But, we do know they are already losing tension once dismounted.

With so many variables, it would be logical to conclude, that a frame that has been strung, and then sitting around for 10,15,20 minutes has lost more tension throughout the overall string bed, than one that was just dismounted (all things being equal: string, frame, tension, stringing machine, stringer). With this fact, we know that no two frames would have the same pitch when conducting the "pinging test", unless the second one was strung tighter.

as I said, very interesting discussion.

this is indeed a very interesting discussion.

a couple of days ago i strung two head microgel extremes in signum pro tornado mains and tecnifibre multifeel on the crosses both at 25/26.5. after stringing the first frame i used an ERT and found the DT to be 38. i strung the second frame and again found the DT to be 38. i then performed the ping test on both rackets, and it came out the same. these were frames i took my time on, taking about 22-25 minutes. same thing happened a few days before when i was stringing another pair, same string, same tension.

i see no reason why two of the same racket in the same string at the same tension strung consecutively shouldnt have the same ping or DT. it just takes consistency.

drakulie
08-29-2010, 07:04 AM
^^jazar, in your experience then, when do you think strings begin to lose tension? hour, 2, 3, 24, etc??

Like you, I have also strung frames back to back (same string,tension, frame) and get the same DT reading from my ERT. But even with that, I don't beleive that they would both have the exact tension on every string, rather, I believe the average of all the strings together comes out the same.

I believe, if memory serves me, when the USRSA conducts their string tests, the string loses tension within minutes. Granted, this is only one piece of string, but I would say this applies even to stringing a whole frame. So, when you pull one piece of string, clamp it, and move on to the next string, by the time you get to the last mains, the first mains have lost tension, and so on.

If this is the case, then the resulting "ping" sound wouldn't be solely dependent on the stringer, rather the strings ability to be so conisistent from string to string (frame to frame), that it loses tension perfectly and consistently.

wally
08-29-2010, 07:14 AM
Wally, this is an intersting topic, especially considering there has never been a device invented to determine the exact tension of a frame, once it has been dismounted.

There is however devices such as the ERT, string meter, RDC machine, and the "ear", etc, which could provide "reference" as to the tension.

There are also many variables that could effect the final outcome of a frames tension. One variable could be the wear and tear on one frame vs another. Of course, I am talking about 2 frames that are identical (for example, two Wilson k95's)

We also do not know at what rate strings lose tennsion once dismounted, or even if they are already losing tenion while in the frame. For example, have the first two mains already begun to stretch and relax by the time we are on cross number 5??? We don't know. But, we do know they are already losing tension once dismounted.

With so many variables, it would be logical to conclude, that a frame that has been strung, and then sitting around for 10,15,20 minutes has lost more tension throughout the overall string bed, than one that was just dismounted (all things being equal: string, frame, tension, stringing machine, stringer). With this fact, we know that no two frames would have the same pitch when conducting the "pinging test", unless the second one was strung tighter.

as I said, very interesting discussion.

Agreed but.... If I bring you 2 brand new K95s and a reel of Sensation 17g and ask you string them on your favorite machine back to back they should be essentially equal (even if you take 20 min per racquet (just be cause you're being extra careful) . I would also expect any ( ERT, string meter, RDC machine) measurements to be essentially equal between the two racquets.

I think the point of Yat's exercise is every racquet you string for a player should be the same everytime. What YAT and RPNY are doing in their own way is TQM (toal quality management) 101 or GE's Six Sigma process. They have developed a simple repeatable process so the result desired can be repeated over and over without thinking. Each of use who strings has done this to some extent. Yat & RPNY have just taken in to the next level. I don't have a burning desire to be a tournament stringer but I would love to go through the training to improve my skills and the quality of the stringing I do.

As you said very interesting discussion

rufusbgood
08-29-2010, 08:06 AM
When this discussion began I had a pair of Prestige Mids here to be strung at 40 lbs with Luxilon. I decided to measure their pitch and track it. I used the freqmess tool.

After #1 was completed it's pitch was 571.143 hz.
After #2 was completed it's pitch was 567.143 hz.

The difference in pitch translates into a difference of 0.3 lbs tension.

When #2 was completed I retested #1.

The pitch on #1 had dropped to 554 hz. 1.6 lbs lower than it was 1/2 hr earlier and 1.3 lbs lower than #2 at that particular moment.

Conclusion: Even if I had been spot on in producing identical tensions, the tension loss in the first 1/2 hr is dramatic enough to make Yat's ping test totally unreliable. And this was at a mere 40 lbs. At higher tension I would expect an even greater discrepancy.

BTW, four hrs later I retested.

#1 pitch was 545
#2 pitch was 550

So the racquet that came off the machine with the higher pitch ended up being the racquet with the lower pitch.

BTW, an ERT-700 finds no difference between the 2.

rufusbgood
08-29-2010, 08:40 AM
When Joe found that he had mounted his racquet upside down his response was to remove the string, remount and start over. Another approach might have been to start his crosses on the wrong side with a starting clamp. Finish them and apply another starting clamp. Remove the completed racquet, flip it, re-tension the first and last cross, clamp and tie off. No?

jim e
08-29-2010, 08:45 AM
When Joe found that he had mounted his racquet upside down his response was to remove the string, remount and start over. Another approach might have been to start his crosses on the wrong side with a starting clamp. Finish them and apply another starting clamp. Remove the completed racquet, flip it, re-tension the first and last cross, clamp and tie off. No?

No, as the tie offs for the mains would be on the "other" side of the racquet, and that was already done and cannot be changed. He did the proper thing.

rufusbgood
08-29-2010, 09:03 AM
Good point. Thanks.

drakulie
08-29-2010, 03:40 PM
When this discussion began I had a pair of Prestige Mids here to be strung at 40 lbs with Luxilon. I decided to measure their pitch and track it. I used the freqmess tool.

After #1 was completed it's pitch was 571.143 hz.
After #2 was completed it's pitch was 567.143 hz.

The difference in pitch translates into a difference of 0.3 lbs tension.

When #2 was completed I retested #1.

The pitch on #1 had dropped to 554 hz. 1.6 lbs lower than it was 1/2 hr earlier and 1.3 lbs lower than #2 at that particular moment.

Conclusion: Even if I had been spot on in producing identical tensions, the tension loss in the first 1/2 hr is dramatic enough to make Yat's ping test totally unreliable. And this was at a mere 40 lbs. At higher tension I would expect an even greater discrepancy.

BTW, four hrs later I retested.

#1 pitch was 545
#2 pitch was 550

So the racquet that came off the machine with the higher pitch ended up being the racquet with the lower pitch.

BTW, an ERT-700 finds no difference between the 2.

Excellent stuff. Thanks for sharing. I was going to test this out tonight, so you saved me the trouble. What you experienced is exactly as I suspected. Doesn't surpirse me that the ERT would display the same DT for both frames.

Again, thanks for sharing. Fascinating topic.

jim e
08-29-2010, 06:55 PM
When this discussion began I had a pair of Prestige Mids here to be strung at 40 lbs with Luxilon. I decided to measure their pitch and track it. I used the freqmess tool.

After #1 was completed it's pitch was 571.143 hz.
After #2 was completed it's pitch was 567.143 hz.

The difference in pitch translates into a difference of 0.3 lbs tension.

When #2 was completed I retested #1.

The pitch on #1 had dropped to 554 hz. 1.6 lbs lower than it was 1/2 hr earlier and 1.3 lbs lower than #2 at that particular moment.

Conclusion: Even if I had been spot on in producing identical tensions, the tension loss in the first 1/2 hr is dramatic enough to make Yat's ping test totally unreliable. And this was at a mere 40 lbs. At higher tension I would expect an even greater discrepancy.

BTW, four hrs later I retested.

#1 pitch was 545
#2 pitch was 550

So the racquet that came off the machine with the higher pitch ended up being the racquet with the lower pitch.

BTW, an ERT-700 finds no difference between the 2.

When you say it makes his ping test unreliable, that is according to the pitch you list using the freqmess tool, but in reality can you actually hear a difference without using that tool, as that is what they did?

kato669
08-29-2010, 07:45 PM
When this discussion began I had a pair of Prestige Mids here to be strung at 40 lbs with Luxilon. I decided to measure their pitch and track it. I used the freqmess tool.

After #1 was completed it's pitch was 571.143 hz.
After #2 was completed it's pitch was 567.143 hz.

The difference in pitch translates into a difference of 0.3 lbs tension.

When #2 was completed I retested #1.

The pitch on #1 had dropped to 554 hz. 1.6 lbs lower than it was 1/2 hr earlier and 1.3 lbs lower than #2 at that particular moment.

Conclusion: Even if I had been spot on in producing identical tensions, the tension loss in the first 1/2 hr is dramatic enough to make Yat's ping test totally unreliable. And this was at a mere 40 lbs. At higher tension I would expect an even greater discrepancy.

BTW, four hrs later I retested.

#1 pitch was 545
#2 pitch was 550

So the racquet that came off the machine with the higher pitch ended up being the racquet with the lower pitch.

BTW, an ERT-700 finds no difference between the 2.


Great info rufusbgood. Really does question how a ping test 30 or so minutes later is relevant. Also, since many pros have racquets strung the morning of matches (which can be hours later or maybe in the evening) what will the final tension of these racquets actually end up at and what will be the deviations from racquet to racquet?

rufusbgood
08-29-2010, 09:14 PM
When you say it makes his ping test unreliable, that is according to the pitch you list using the freqmess tool, but in reality can you actually hear a difference without using that tool, as that is what they did?

The difference in pitch in the two racquets was audible. In addition to pinging them with the heel of my hand as per the freqmess instructions I tapped them against each other along the same lines as Yat. Using the freqmess tool makes it possible to quantify the difference in pitch though.

I have 3 Prince Graphites here that I will be stringing with a nylon based string. I will track these as well. I am curious to see what effect higher tensions and more elastic strings will have.

Evidently there was a point in time when the 2 Prestiges I strung would have pinged the same. I was out on a tennis court at the time so I missed it. Maybe there was a ten minute window when I would have passed Yat's test.

drakulie
08-30-2010, 06:09 AM
rufus, great stuff, and again, along the lines of what should be happening.

IMO, when Yat finally gave the two frames a "passing grade", after they passed his ping test, they in fact were off. The second frame, which had just been strung and dismounted, was in fact strung lower, which resulted with both frames having the same tone/pitch.

I would guess that the first two frames, which he failed after the first ping test, were strung identically, and more consistent, however, because the first frame had already been sitting around for a while, the ping would be different than the ping of the frame that was just dismounted.

Again, I'm not sure if he was just messing with this guy, or if he really believes that both frames should have the same ping.

jazar
08-30-2010, 06:29 AM
^^jazar, in your experience then, when do you think strings begin to lose tension? hour, 2, 3, 24, etc??

Like you, I have also strung frames back to back (same string,tension, frame) and get the same DT reading from my ERT. But even with that, I don't beleive that they would both have the exact tension on every string, rather, I believe the average of all the strings together comes out the same.

I believe, if memory serves me, when the USRSA conducts their string tests, the string loses tension within minutes. Granted, this is only one piece of string, but I would say this applies even to stringing a whole frame. So, when you pull one piece of string, clamp it, and move on to the next string, by the time you get to the last mains, the first mains have lost tension, and so on.

If this is the case, then the resulting "ping" sound wouldn't be solely dependent on the stringer, rather the strings ability to be so conisistent from string to string (frame to frame), that it loses tension perfectly and consistently.

the strings will start losing tension straightaway. if you have more than 2 identical rackets to string, it becomes harder to get the pitch of the strings the same due to an even greater time sitting around, but over time the pitch should equalise out.

my earlier point about consistency was not referring to the string, but to the stringer. if, as a stringer, you do things exactly the same for both of a pair of rackets, then i see no reason why they shouldnt come off the machine both sounding the same

drakulie
08-30-2010, 06:57 AM
the strings will start losing tension straightaway. if you have more than 2 identical rackets to string, it becomes harder to get the pitch of the strings the same due to an even greater time sitting around, but over time the pitch should equalise out.

my earlier point about consistency was not referring to the string, but to the stringer. if, as a stringer, you do things exactly the same for both of a pair of rackets, then i see no reason why they shouldnt come off the machine both sounding the same

absolutely agree with this last portion, and thanks for your response.

However, if I string a frame, sit it down, then string the second frame, and *THEN* conduct the ping test on both frames, they will not or should not have the same pitch when doing the ping test, because the first frame I strung has already been losing tension during the time that I was stringing the second frame. If I'm not mistaken, this is what YAT did. He waited for both frames to be strung to conduct his ping test.

rufusbgood
08-30-2010, 10:56 AM
I strung up 3 Prince Graphite LB MP @ 57 lbs with Gamma Fat Core. At only one point would I have come close to passing Yat's test. That was at 12 hrs, racquets 2 & 3 were about 1/4 hz apart . Note that at completion racquets 1 and 2 were a scant 0.571 hz apart. Still audibly different.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4941949447_0014d89470.jpg

stringwalla
08-30-2010, 07:31 PM
Just to give my experience level a little credibility, I've strung over 140K frames and do take pride in accuracy. I have found that every time I tried to get identical pings from back to back jobs, the 2nd was always higher in pitch. Took me some time to finally realize the initial tension loss is fairly significant.

Just listen to a frame strung with pro hurricane "creak" in the minutes following as it sits there fresh off the machine.

Haven't listened to the "The Story" yet, but I remember Joe from Wilson Stringing Championships, he seemed like a great guy and I'm sure it's interesting-

drakulie
08-31-2010, 06:20 AM
Just to give my experience level a little credibility, I've strung over 140K frames and do take pride in accuracy. I have found that every time I tried to get identical pings from back to back jobs, the 2nd was always higher in pitch. Took me some time to finally realize the initial tension loss is fairly significant.

Just listen to a frame strung with pro hurricane "creak" in the minutes following as it sits there fresh off the machine.

Haven't listened to the "The Story" yet, but I remember Joe from Wilson Stringing Championships, he seemed like a great guy and I'm sure it's interesting-

^^Wow, 140 thousand frames?? That is 20 frames every day for a period of 20 straight years. :shock: How long have you been stringing?

Anyway, back on topic, yes, in doing frames back to back, the second frame would/should always have a higher ping at the time of dismounting, than the first frame, which has been sitting around.


I strung up 3 Prince Graphite LB MP @ 57 lbs with Gamma Fat Core. At only one point would I have come close to passing Yat's test. That was at 12 hrs, racquets 2 & 3 were about 1/4 hz apart . Note that at completion racquets 1 and 2 were a scant 0.571 hz apart. Still audibly different.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4941949447_0014d89470.jpg


Rufus, great stuff, and again>>> thanks for taking the time to do this. Very interesting data.

stringwalla
08-31-2010, 06:46 AM
^^Wow, 140 thousand frames?? That is 20 frames every day for a period of 20 straight years. :shock: How long have you been stringing?



23 yrs. As many as 50+ in one day, as many as 220+ in a week. That was when I was young. My body can't do that anymore. I've averaged over 8K p/yr the past few years though. Not sure whether to be proud or embarrassed. :neutral:

drakulie
08-31-2010, 06:51 AM
^^Wow. Crazy, Crazy. You must have bionic fingers. :)

How is that Bairdo treating you?? Do you still have it??

uk_skippy
08-31-2010, 08:21 AM
I've only just dropped into this thread as I've been on holiday for 2 weeks so my points are likely to seem short and not necessarily following the prior posts.

I've not heard the mp3 that the OP posted but I will do over the next day of so.

Jazar (Jamie), I think you've certainly done well in achieving what you have with tournament stringing. I passed my Certified Stringer in 1992, and then the Certified Racquet Technician (CRT now MRT) in 93. I approached various companies, even Bow Brand but wasn't lucky enough to get the call until about 7 years ago.

Re: mounting the rqts, I don't think it matters which way up the buttcap is facing, especially as its been know then some Prince rqts have had the butt cap put on 'upside down'. If I have a run of rqts for 1 player I'll always string the rqt the same way, and will mount it the same way but I don't always mount all rqts from the same company the same way. I don't think having the buttcap up or down is relevant.

Re:ping tests, I've string a couple of rqts in a row which have a slight variant on the ping, but the ERT gives the same result. Consequently, if you're string rqts for, say, Venus or especially Serena who have somewhere between 5-8 frames in for stringing, there will be a variance between the 1st and the last frame due to the amount of time taken to string their rqts.

Regards

Paul

stringwalla
08-31-2010, 12:08 PM
^^

How is that Bairdo treating you?? Do you still have it??


Wow Drak. you remember the Biairdo?

I honestly don't use it much anymore. The clamping system requires extra effort. It's a great machine and can do a superior job, but my hands appreciate the more delicate Star 3 clamping after the long day-

SW Stringer
08-31-2010, 02:20 PM
When this discussion began I had a pair of Prestige Mids here to be strung at 40 lbs with Luxilon. I decided to measure their pitch and track it. I used the freqmess tool.

After #1 was completed it's pitch was 571.143 hz.
After #2 was completed it's pitch was 567.143 hz.

The difference in pitch translates into a difference of 0.3 lbs tension.

When #2 was completed I retested #1.

The pitch on #1 had dropped to 554 hz. 1.6 lbs lower than it was 1/2 hr earlier and 1.3 lbs lower than #2 at that particular moment.

Conclusion: Even if I had been spot on in producing identical tensions, the tension loss in the first 1/2 hr is dramatic enough to make Yat's ping test totally unreliable. And this was at a mere 40 lbs. At higher tension I would expect an even greater discrepancy.

BTW, four hrs later I retested.

#1 pitch was 545
#2 pitch was 550

So the racquet that came off the machine with the higher pitch ended up being the racquet with the lower pitch.

BTW, an ERT-700 finds no difference between the 2.

Good investigative work rufusbgood. But I have one minor correction to your math. The frequency of a string is proportional to the square root of the tension, so to get the tension difference you'll need to square the ratio's of the frequencies to be exact. So the text bolded in your examples above would be 0.558 lbs and 2.35 lbs respectively instead of the 0.3 lbs and the 1.6 lbs that you calculated. I've been using the frequency method to measure SBS for years and depending on the string and tension this method can have a sensitivity of 7 to 10 Hz per pound of tension - in other words a minor variation in tension (as little as one tenth a pound) will result in a different frequency. The DT devices are much more coarse in sensitivity. I've calculated tension changes of up to two pounds before the DT changes. If you're relying on the DT device as a QC tool to check your stringing it could cause some undue (and false) stress when two identical string jobs come out with different DT numbers. You could have resultant tensions within hundredths of a pound but each one (of the two) is on opposite sides of the cusp - so the ERT software assigns different DT's. Just be aware of that particular "fluke" of a coarse measuring device like the ERT's.

rufusbgood
08-31-2010, 02:58 PM
SW Stringer,

The freqmess tool in addition to reading out in hertz has some sort of internal conversion formula for reading out in pounds. I went with the readings provided by the tool. No attempt on my part to do any math.

I don't have much experience with freqmess, but since this was the only thing I had available for measuring pitch objectively I went with it. If I can find a striking method that doesn't involve the heel of my hand I may consider using it more.

For me, the really interesting and surprising thing to come out of this exercise was that the racquets where I felt I had come closest to matching pitch (Prince Graphites 1 & 2) did not remain that way. 12 hrs later the racquets that pinged closest were the furthest apart at dismount. So there's some real variability in the way racquets lose tension immediately after stringing.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing if others have similar results. Anyone wanting a copy of freqmess just post an email address and I will send you the zip file.

SW Stringer
09-01-2010, 02:35 AM
"SW Stringer,

The freqmess tool in addition to reading out in hertz has some sort of internal conversion formula for reading out in pounds. I went with the readings provided by the tool. No attempt on my part to do any math."

Ah, I see, then it's a problem with Marc's internal calculation.

"For me, the really interesting and surprising thing to come out of this exercise was that the racquets where I felt I had come closest to matching pitch (Prince Graphites 1 & 2) did not remain that way. 12 hrs later the racquets that pinged closest were the furthest apart at dismount. So there's some real variability in the way racquets lose tension immediately after stringing."

The reason racquets lose tension differently is that no two racquets are identical. The variability comes from the very much manual process of manufacturing. Different technicians, different pre-preg reels, slightly different pre-preg layup segments, slightly different positions of those segments in the overall layup, how tight the layup is rolled onto the mandrel, different autoclaves, position of the mold in the autoclave, autoclave temperature profile, etc, etc, etc. What you've seen (assuming your stringing process is constant) is the normal variation in the manufacturing process.

I'd bet though that if you repeated the experiment the results would be the same. I saw the same trend with two "identical" Wilson frames. One would always ping a little higher than the other with the same setup. After about the third or fourth restringing I finally recognized the trend in my database.

jazar
09-01-2010, 09:30 AM
Jazar (Jamie), I think you've certainly done well in achieving what you have with tournament stringing. I passed my Certified Stringer in 1992, and then the Certified Racquet Technician (CRT now MRT) in 93. I approached various companies, even Bow Brand but wasn't lucky enough to get the call until about 7 years ago.

i was lucky; i got a ringing endorsement from mr maslowski

drakulie
09-03-2010, 06:39 AM
Wow Drak. you remember the Biairdo?

I honestly don't use it much anymore. The clamping system requires extra effort. It's a great machine and can do a superior job, but my hands appreciate the more delicate Star 3 clamping after the long day-


Yup, still remember your post about the machine. Since you are not using it, are you planning on selling it??