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AR15
09-01-2010, 05:40 AM
Interesting scenario in my area:

A player self rated as a 3.0 for our local league (non-USTA league). The player had high school experience, but no college. He was good enough as an adult that he won all of his matches at 3.0 and was dq'd, and bumped to 3.5.

The next season, this player signs up for a USTA membership and self rates as a 3.0. He signs up for a 6.5 combo team, and is winning all of his matches with the 3.5 he's playing with.

1. Do you think the player was being dishonest registering for USTA as a 3.0?
2. Do you consider this cheating?
3. Can you think of any reason this player might have (in his mind) to justify rating himself as a 3.0 in USTA?
4. Would you protest this player if you were on an opposing team?

polski
09-01-2010, 06:08 AM
Interesting scenario in my area:

A player self rated as a 3.0 for our local league. The player had high school experience, but no college. He was good enough as an adult that he won all of his matches at 3.0 and was dq'd, and bumped to 3.5.

The next season, this player signs up for a USTA membership and self rates as a 3.0. He signs up for a 6.5 combo team, and is winning all of his matches with the 3.5 he's playing with.

1. Do you think the player was being dishonest registering for USTA as a 3.0?
2. Do you consider this cheating?
3. Can you think of any reason this player might have (in his mind) to justify rating himself as a 3.0 in USTA?
4. Would you protest this player if you were on an opposing team?

1) YES
2) YES
3) NO
4) Maybe
- I would most likely just make sure that he knows that I know what he is doing. If he's a jerk, I would protest. If he can justify what he is doing, I'd let it slide. Life's too short.

J_R_B
09-01-2010, 07:08 AM
What kind of league did he originally sign up for and how does the competition compare to USTA? I say that because we have a local league here that uses the same USTA nomenclature (3.0 - 5.5), but the ratings are at least a full point different that USTA ratings. In other words, I am a solid 4.0 in USTA, but I play in the 5.5 level local league. If anyone thnks that I am cheating by not self-rating at 5.5 in USTA is crazy. I would not get a single game from legitimate 5.5 USTA players.

If the person registered for USTA and self-rated at 3.0, got bumped to 3.5, and then re-registered the next year at 3.0 under a different name or address or whatever, that is clearly cheating. Otherwise, it's not 100% clear.

AR15
09-01-2010, 07:26 AM
What kind of league did he originally sign up for and how does the competition compare to USTA? I say that because we have a local league here that uses the same USTA nomenclature (3.0 - 5.5), but the ratings are at least a full point different that USTA ratings. In other words, I am a solid 4.0 in USTA, but I play in the 5.5 level local league. If anyone thnks that I am cheating by not self-rating at 5.5 in USTA is crazy. I would not get a single game from legitimate 5.5 USTA players.

If the person registered for USTA and self-rated at 3.0, got bumped to 3.5, and then re-registered the next year at 3.0 under a different name or address or whatever, that is clearly cheating. Otherwise, it's not 100% clear.

It's a very large local league, that covers my area, similar to ALTA in Atlanta. 85% of the players in this area play in both leagues

catfish
09-01-2010, 09:37 AM
If this player self-rated and played in USTA adult league, he generated a year end computer rating. That computer rating is valid for three years. If he self-rated the next year, he must have done it under a different name and USTA membership. Having multiple memberships/ratings for the same person is circumventing the system, and most definitely cheating. See USTA National Rules below. Some Sectional rules address this type of situation. I suggest that the OP review his or her Sectional rules.

3.01D Entry. A player without a NTRP published level must self-rate to enter the
program. A player with a current NTRP published level must use that rating to enter the program.
3.01D(1) Players entering the USTA League Tennis Program are defined as having an
NTRP published level on file in TennisLink or as new/returning players without a NTRP published
level. Rating levels are derived in accordance with USTA NTRP Computer Rating System
Procedures. Once a player is assigned a NTRP published level, it is valid for up to three years or
until another NTRP published level is generated. (See Valid Year-end NTRP Published Level
Chart – inside back cover)
3.01D(2) Players who do not have a NTRP published level on file in TennisLink shall
self-rate in accordance with the National Tennis Rating Program (NTRP) Guidelines and
complete the self-rating process on TennisLink when registering for a team. Failure to do so, or
omission of information regarding a player’s tennis history, will subject the player, the captain,
and/or others who condoned inaccurate self-rating to sanctions and disqualification.

J_R_B
09-01-2010, 09:57 AM
It's a very large local league, that covers my area, similar to ALTA in Atlanta. 85% of the players in this area play in both leagues

But do they generally play at the same level? In other words, are 3.0 and 3.5 really equivalents in the two leagues?

AR15
09-01-2010, 12:15 PM
But do they generally play at the same level? In other words, are 3.0 and 3.5 really equivalents in the two leagues?

If 85% of the same players play in both leagues, they are not altering their skill levels for one league over the other.

Bedrock
09-01-2010, 01:57 PM
Interesting scenario in my area:

A player self rated as a 3.0 for our local league (non-USTA league). The player had high school experience, but no college. He was good enough as an adult that he won all of his matches at 3.0 and was dq'd, and bumped to 3.5.

The next season, this player signs up for a USTA membership and self rates as a 3.0. He signs up for a 6.5 combo team, and is winning all of his matches with the 3.5 he's playing with.

1. Do you think the player was being dishonest registering for USTA as a 3.0?
2. Do you consider this cheating?
3. Can you think of any reason this player might have (in his mind) to justify rating himself as a 3.0 in USTA?
4. Would you protest this player if you were on an opposing team?

1) NO
2) NO
3) Found the level when he can win. (However 3.0 indicates no level at all)
4) Inappropriate question. You cannot support opposite side at any circumstances.

AR15
09-01-2010, 03:00 PM
1) NO
2) NO
3) Found the level when he can win. (However 3.0 indicates no level at all)
4) Inappropriate question. You cannot support opposite side at any circumstances.

Thanks for the reply, but can you explain your answer to question #1? If the player had been found to be a 3.5 in one league, how do you justify that player self rating as a 3.0 a few months later in the USTA league?

And your answer to #3 is quite peculiar. When the USTA defines the various levels, how do you say "3.0 indicates no level at all?"

polski
09-01-2010, 03:23 PM
1) NO
2) NO
3) Found the level when he can win. (However 3.0 indicates no level at all)
4) Inappropriate question. You cannot support opposite side at any circumstances.

I don't think you understood his question 4. He is asking if you faced an opponent that did this, "would you protest?"

It can't be inappropriate because this is the only party who would have justifiable cause to complain. And this would not be supporting the opposite side, but instead confronting it.

Bedrock
09-01-2010, 03:47 PM
I don't think you understood his question 4. He is asking if you faced an opponent that did this, "would you protest?"

It can't be inappropriate because this is the only party who would have justifiable cause to complain. And this would not be supporting the opposite side, but instead confronting it.

I did informed once a tournament director about a player who signed up for tournament ignoring the rules and that player was not allowed to play. (But there were very clear definitions about who acceptable for participating in tournament)
In this particular case I do not see which rule this player has broken. USTA allowed him to get in 4.0 therefore I assume it is OK.