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Centered
09-12-2010, 06:34 PM
I'm planning to buy a stringer soon and I watched one video so far but the music was so loud that I turned off the volume on my computer. Videos with a slow and calm pacing would be ideal.


Also, I did a search about wax, because I have heard people suggest waxing the mains when doing natural gut. Is there a certain type of wax that people use? I assume beeswax is the kind that's generally used. But there is also candelilla and carnauba, for instance.

Is it a good idea to use wax for some multis, like Dynamite – to avoid damaging the outer layer? Does the use of wax cause trouble, such as by leaving residue on machine parts? Or is the wax applied so that strings with wax on them won't come into contact with parts where a buildup would be an issue?


Also, I noticed that Irvin said pre-stretching polys is unlikely to help them maintain tension, but Tennis Warehouse's string testing database shows the pre-stretching greatly improved the total tension loss statistic for polys as well as for other strings -- at least for the time/tests involved in TW's "total tension loss" test. For instance:

Polyfibre Viper 17/1.20, 62 lbs, Fast, no, 32.0
Polyfibre Viper 17/1.20, 62 lbs, Fast, yes, 23.2

Prince Tournament Poly 17, 62 lbs, Fast, no, 26.2
Prince Tournament Poly 17, 62 lbs, Fast, yes, 17.2

Prince Topspin w/ Duraflex 15L, 62 lbs, Fast, no, 9.9
Prince Topspin w/ Duraflex 15L, 62 lbs), Fast, yes, 3.7

Pacific Prime Natural Gut 16L, 62 lbs, Fast, no, 7.7
Pacific Prime Natural Gut 16L, 62 lbs, Fast, yes, 2.2

One weird result:

Solinco Revolution 16, 62 lbs, Fast, no, 24.7
Solinco Revolution 16, 62 lbs, Fast, yes, 26.7

I wonder if that's an error in the data?

Someone else said pre-stretching more than 10% can damage a string's performance by robbing a string of its elasticity. Is there any proof for this? Also, wouldn't the maximum pre-stretch threshold be different for different string materials/constructions?

Someone else said polys shouldn't be pre-stretched at all. A pre-stretched string holds its tension better so given two string jobs at the same reference tension the string bed will feel harder in the racquet with pre-stretched strings. But isn't that just a matter of increased tension? Could a stringer not just cut down the reference tension and achieve a similar stiffness to the not pre-stretched string bed but achieve tension maintenance?

jim e
09-12-2010, 06:46 PM
You can wax your strings if you like, but I string a decent amount of nat. gut, and I don't wax at all, and have no problems. Wax is no substitute for being careful and paying attention to what you are doing. If a client asked me to wax the strings they would have to pay double the labor for me to clean up the machine after the job was done.It would get on the clamps, and the rest of the machine. Just not worth it for me.

Centered
09-13-2010, 10:00 AM
Thanks for the info. I've seen quite few suggestions about waxing mains for gut, but it seems like it would definitely be difficult to remove the residue from equipment. What would a person use to remove wax?

Also, for people who are really sensitive to VOCs, can Everclear be used to clean equipment? Isopropyl alcohol is toxic to breathe and Ethanol rubbing alcohol has nasty/stinky denaturants like acetone and ketones in it.

drakulie
09-13-2010, 10:10 AM
^^^Use a regular candle to wax the mains a bit. You don't have to go nuts with rubbing it. Just a light coat.

You shouldn't end up with wax all over the stringer,,,,,,, just on the center clamps and tension head. You could use a dry cloth to rub it down, and/or alcohol to really clean it good. If you have good enough clamps, you won'teven need to rub them down after every string job.

good luck.

drakulie
09-13-2010, 10:16 AM
to add,,,,,, as for pre-stretching, there is a point of diminishing return. Some strings have no elasticity compared to others.

So, for instance, poly vs natural.. Poly compared to natural has very little elasticity, so if you pre-stretch it, the elasticity is gone, and the string may feel dead once strung.

natural gut, by pre-stretching it, you are taking away some of it's natural elasticity. However, on the other side, you won't get as much tension loss.

each string is unique in how it is effected by pre-stretching. There are always pros and cons.

Centered
09-15-2010, 04:12 PM
Poly compared to natural has very little elasticity, so if you pre-stretch it, the elasticity is gone, and the string may feel dead once strung.
I'd love to see proof of this.

Because if it is true, then we need testing for each string as part of the Tennis Warehouse string database so people can know what the elasticity limit is for their strings. Otherwise people will waste a lot of time and money playing with various tensions and pre-stretching.

mikeler
09-16-2010, 05:36 AM
I'd love to see proof of this.

Because if it is true, then we need testing for each string as part of the Tennis Warehouse string database so people can know what the elasticity limit is for their strings. Otherwise people will waste a lot of time and money playing with various tensions and pre-stretching.


Once you start stringing for yourself, you'll realize what Drak said is true.

Irvin
09-16-2010, 09:20 AM
^^^Use a regular candle to wax the mains a bit. You don't have to go nuts with rubbing it. Just a light coat.

...

Wow candles could get expensive. I bought some parafin to use as wax from a grocery store when I first started stringing. I left it in the box and over time they all stuck together. Now I have a large 'thing' of parafin. LOL That one box cost me $0.99 I think and at the rate I am going I will never run out.

My wife used to have a thing she put wax in to heat up and put her hands and feet in. Not sure why women do this. I am not going to dip any of my extremities in hot wax. LOL But she got her wax at a beauty supply house.

BTW do you use a scented candle? Just kidding.

Irvin

Irvin
09-16-2010, 09:25 AM
I'd love to see proof of this...

Go to any big box store and watch them string. You could ask the stringer if poly (or kevlar) stretches much if you want his / her opinion. If you watch as poly (or kevlar) is tensioned there is no stretching. For ALL other types of strings the stretch is noticeably longer.

But I am not so sure there is not good reason to pre stretch poly. Pre-stretching poly at low tension (maybe a few pounds) for a prolonged period tends to remove the memory (coiling) and may make it easier to work with.

Irvin

Centered
09-16-2010, 11:12 AM
Go to any big box store and watch them string. You could ask the stringer if poly (or kevlar) stretches much if you want his / her opinion. If you watch as poly (or kevlar) is tensioned there is no stretching. For ALL other types of strings the stretch is noticeably longer.
I know this.
But I am not so sure there is not good reason to pre stretch poly. Pre-stretching poly at low tension (maybe a few pounds) for a prolonged period tends to remove the memory (coiling) and may make it easier to work with.
Thanks for the info.

Centered
09-16-2010, 11:14 AM
Once you start stringing for yourself, you'll realize what Drak said is true.
That's not proof. How would I know, anyway?

A pre-stretched poly will hold its tension better, resulting in a firmer string bed at the same reference tension as an equivalent setup without the pre-stretch. So, how does one separate that increased stiffness from better tension retention from this claim that elasticity has been destroyed?

mikeler
09-16-2010, 11:57 AM
That's not proof. How would I know, anyway?

A pre-stretched poly will hold its tension better, resulting in a firmer string bed at the same reference tension as an equivalent setup without the pre-stretch. So, how does one separate that increased stiffness from better tension retention from this claim that elasticity has been destroyed?


You'll know when you start stringing different types of string which ones are inelastic because they are a pain in the butt to string. Luxilon BBO was awful to work with.

Centered
09-16-2010, 07:00 PM
You'll know when you start stringing different types of string which ones are inelastic because they are a pain in the butt to string. Luxilon BBO was awful to work with.
What have I said that suggests I don't know the difference between a stiff string, like Kevlar, and an elastic string, like natural gut? You don't have to string racquets to understand something that simple. Yes, some strings stretch more than others!

This isn't about how elastic strings are on their own. This is about the assertion that there's a point of no return when stringing strings in which the elasticity of the string is lost forever due to too high a tension and/or pre-stretching.

I want proof that there is such a point and I want to know what it is for various string materials/constructions so I can avoid it when stringing and others can, too. There needs to be some testing and evidence presented.

drakulie
09-22-2010, 07:08 AM
That's not proof. How would I know, anyway?

A pre-stretched poly will hold its tension better, resulting in a firmer string bed at the same reference tension as an equivalent setup without the pre-stretch.

It will hold it's tension better because you are taking what little elasticity it has away by pre-stretching it. So yes, it will hold it's tenision better, but will also die quicker than it already does.

mikeler
09-22-2010, 09:18 AM
It will hold it's tension better because you are taking what little elasticity it has away by pre-stretching it. So yes, it will hold it's tenision better, but will also die quicker than it already does.


Please provide proof such as a formal equation or an expert witness testimony. :)

drakulie
09-22-2010, 09:38 AM
Please provide proof such as a formal equation or an expert witness testimony. :)

LOL.

Fact is, if you stretch something to the point that you take away it's elasticity, then the only thing left is for the string to break, or play dead. This is common sense, verified by when I do string reviews and check tension maintenance, and actually play with the string until it breaks.

In my observation, strings that are pre stretched hold tension better "initially", but then go dead quicker, and snap quicker than ones that are not pre-stretched.

One more thing regarding the RSI ("expert witness testimony") guide for tension maintenance....... They test one strand of string after it has been pulled to X tension, then hit it 5 times with a hammer like object, then test the tension on it again.

Hardly an accurate test to measure the characteristics of a string in representing their tension maintenance. For example, String A may lose tension very quickly compared to String B when taken off the machine. However, String A, may after its initial tenion loss settle in and then hold that tension for a long amount of time, where as String B may continue losing tension throughout it's string life.

Anyone who has playtested and taken measurements of a lot of different strings and taken measurements throughout the stirings life knows this.

struggle
09-22-2010, 09:44 AM
centered, if you're hell bent on proof then go find it.

what you are getting here is anecdotal evidence from people who don't need proof. they already "know". if you need numbers, you're gonna have to generate them on your own or find them elsewhere.

edit: maybe that sounded too harsh, not meant to be. just saying.