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Cindysphinx
09-13-2010, 04:04 AM
I'm wondering what others would do if they felt a team member was hooking in team practice.

I played against someone recently, someone I don't know very well. She was receiving on the ad side as I served. She was shading pretty far over to her BH side, so I decided to slice up the middle. I have been working on using my legs more, and since this was team practice I decided to really go after this serve. As luck would have it, I nailed it: A slice ace that landed on the inside of the center line and shot away from her.

"OUT!" she cried.

I looked over at her partner, who met my gaze with an appalled look.

Had it been an actual match, I would have asked if they were sure of their call while looking at the partner. Since it was team practice, I thought it best to let it go.

Afterward in the match, there were two other calls (baseline and sideline) that seemed well in that this lady called out. There was one call where her partner signaled in when she signaled out (a baseline call when she was at net).

Part of me thinks I should say something to her about it next time we play. The other part of me doesn't wish to get punched in the face.

Since it was practice, the thing to do was just let it go. Right?

bcart1991
09-13-2010, 04:20 AM
Politely tell her "Your line calls are horrible."

If she shrugs it off, she's probably doing it intentionally. If she shows genuine concern, she may just not have good enough vision to make proper close calls.

Nuke
09-13-2010, 04:48 AM
Cindy, you've been playing long enough to know that a few bad calls are part of the game, right? Practice . . . let it go.

spot
09-13-2010, 04:53 AM
On the mens team we handle it by making fun of captain hook. When we play against other people we will say "it was in but if you were playing against XX it would have been out"... that sort of thing.

But in women's world I think you have to just let it go... nothing useful can come out of that.

Cindysphinx
09-13-2010, 05:14 AM
Cindy, you've been playing long enough to know that a few bad calls are part of the game, right? Practice . . . let it go.

Yeah, I know, that's the thing. It's just practice, so who cares?

Practice is this weird hybrid between match play and social play. Further complicating matters is that I'm the captain, so one would think I would care if my players are Habitual Hookers. Did I have a duty to say something, and if so, when? Or is it her partner's duty to make it clear that her line calls were off?

mlktennis
09-13-2010, 06:11 AM
I've gotten to the point with these calls that I just attribute it to poor eyesight/ wishful thinking. I wouldn't say anything, like you said, it's just practice. And if she is the type to hook on practice then what you say won't change a bad egg.

Another thing is I have known many a player who doesn't know that if close and not sure, then the call goes to the opp -not yourself. seems common sense but as we know common sense is not common. Maybe during one of the prematch/ post practice talks just re-emphasize this rule and sportsmanship.

Also, for some reson, the hooking slice down the line is often called out for me too. I just think many are so surprised by it (expecting the wide and camped out there) and that hooking action throws them off that they don't see it clearly or just assume it would be out. I really don't know but it is the serve that I seem to be 'hooked' on the most.

Tar Heel Tennis
09-13-2010, 06:24 AM
what are you going to do when she is your partner and makes a ridiculous call in a league match?

I would speak to her, or if you prefer, have your coach speak to her about her calls. best to bring the issue to light now, and have it resolved, rather than tarnish the reputation of your team during league play.

my .02

blakesq
09-13-2010, 06:41 AM
If you had a lot of spin on your serve, and it looked like it was heading out, but the spin brought it back in, I think a lot of people call those serves out, because their brain mistakenly thinks it was going out. It has happened to me plenty of times. It sucks, but its the other teams call.


I'm wondering what others would do if they felt a team member was hooking in team practice.

I played against someone recently, someone I don't know very well. She was receiving on the ad side as I served. She was shading pretty far over to her BH side, so I decided to slice up the middle. I have been working on using my legs more, and since this was team practice I decided to really go after this serve. As luck would have it, I nailed it: A slice ace that landed on the inside of the center line and shot away from her.

"OUT!" she cried.

I looked over at her partner, who met my gaze with an appalled look.

Had it been an actual match, I would have asked if they were sure of their call while looking at the partner. Since it was team practice, I thought it best to let it go.

Afterward in the match, there were two other calls (baseline and sideline) that seemed well in that this lady called out. There was one call where her partner signaled in when she signaled out (a baseline call when she was at net).

Part of me thinks I should say something to her about it next time we play. The other part of me doesn't wish to get punched in the face.

Since it was practice, the thing to do was just let it go. Right?

Fedace
09-13-2010, 06:47 AM
If this is repeating incident, then i am assuming other teammates on the team knows as well what is going on, right ? Just tell her that you have heard some complaints from the teammates that you are making some very questionable linecalls. and also tell her that you youself have seen incidences to point to this fact.

cknobman
09-13-2010, 06:56 AM
My teammates and I are all fairly close with each other and are very open about commenting on things (its actually been that way on every team Ive ever played, maybe its a guy thing).

If someone hooks a call in practice (it happens alot even my own partner has done it) I nor anyone else ever hesitates to give that person tons of crap. We usually let them know their call was wrong and that they better not pull that crap in a league match.

larry10s
09-13-2010, 07:13 AM
what happens in practice often happens in matches.
as captain your responsibilities go beyond social friendliness.
i would have asked for the mark as you would in a game
if it seems to be a recurring pattern ( you could ask other memebers of the team who play with and against her in practive) you need to speak to her. jmho

precision2b
09-13-2010, 07:28 AM
I play this guy that has the same problem. At first I was thinking he had a vision problem, but I noticed that all the calls are always to his advantage…

decades
09-13-2010, 07:54 AM
just be glad she's on your team when the real matches start.

beststringer
09-13-2010, 07:57 AM
I'm wondering what others would do if they felt a team member was hooking in team practice.

I played against someone recently, someone I don't know very well. She was receiving on the ad side as I served. She was shading pretty far over to her BH side, so I decided to slice up the middle. I have been working on using my legs more, and since this was team practice I decided to really go after this serve. As luck would have it, I nailed it: A slice ace that landed on the inside of the center line and shot away from her.

"OUT!" she cried.

I looked over at her partner, who met my gaze with an appalled look.

Had it been an actual match, I would have asked if they were sure of their call while looking at the partner. Since it was team practice, I thought it best to let it go.

Afterward in the match, there were two other calls (baseline and sideline) that seemed well in that this lady called out. There was one call where her partner signaled in when she signaled out (a baseline call when she was at net).

Part of me thinks I should say something to her about it next time we play. The other part of me doesn't wish to get punched in the face.

Since it was practice, the thing to do was just let it go. Right?

I think captains should encourage their teammates to practice this types of calls. Relax and buy her a beer.

tennis tom
09-13-2010, 09:48 AM
... As luck would have it, I nailed it: A slice ace that landed on the inside of the center line and shot away from her

Part of me thinks I should say something to her about it next time we play. The other part of me doesn't wish to get punched in the face.

Since it was practice, the thing to do was just let it go. Right?


NO! You don't just let it go. Tennis is a microcosm for life--how you do one thing is how you do everything. Much of winning in sports is about heart and courage. This would have been an excellent opportunity to test your mettle and fight the forces of evil--the cheater.

Are you SERIOUS--that you feared getting punched in the face if you confronted her?--or kidding? If she's that much of a socio-path, she'd probably already be locked up by now. In 50 years of playing, I've only witnessed one fist fight. I've been in my fair share of "meaningful discussions" at the net and the worst thing thats happened is there's a few players I won't talk to anymore and just walk by as if they didn't exist--that's how the 4th grade operates. I gave them a chance to "hash it out" and reconcile, but they were in too much of a hurry to get to their match--their loss, not mine.

I doubt it would come to fistacuffs, but sometimes in life you've got to stand up for your VISION/vision and your principles and maybe take one on the chin. You've got the net inbetween you.

A tip, don't go over to their side of the net, if she's gonna' slug you, make her come over to your side and let her take the first punch. If it gets to a trial court, this will put you in good standing as the victim and self-defense. It's like if you shoot a burglar make sure he/she's in your house or drag him/her back in.

Keep a card for a good criminal attorney in your purse for confidence, and ask the cheater before she swings what kind of car she has because you will own it after your attorney is done with her. If she doesn't have any assets to go after then save the brawl for another day and a wealthier opponent to recover damages from.

Tennis is often compared to boxing, take some boxing lessons, it will help you with your foot-work and jab volleys, and prepare you just in case you have to defend yourself from the forces of evil someday, like the up-skirt photo takers thread from a while back.

Kick butt!

p.s. You said the your ace was luck, then maybe you didn't deserve the call because you didn't hit that ace--it was Mr. Lucky that hit it. What I like to do when I've been cheated like that is to put my second serve in the exact same spot and help them "improve" their vision. It's strange, but they don't cheat on the second one to the EXACT same spot. So don't let that ace be luck, practice 'til you own it and can pop it when you want to. In the end, socio-paths are cowards and when found out--and they know that you know--they can't summon the "courage" to screw you twice in a row--definite proof there is a "Celestial Archetect".

Blade0324
09-13-2010, 10:08 AM
Cindy, I would not let it go. I think this person needs to be let know that they are making poor calls as it will cause bigger problems down the road in actual matches. One thought is to get some court time for your team to practice on clay. This is a great way for people to be able to see how their eyes often play tricks on them as the ball will leave a very definate mark on clay and you will be able to see in or out. Might be a very good lesson for all.

Tarboro
09-13-2010, 10:12 AM
You probably should say something. A bad reputation for what charitably might be called "poor court vision" can quickly move from the offender to the offender's partner to the offender's whole team if left unaddressed.

I'm going to assume that you're not really worried about getting punched in the face by this player for confronting her about what appeared to you to be a bad line call. If that is true, just stop play the next time it happens, ask her partner to confirm the call, and if she won't (or if there is significant hesitation) remind them that any doubt should result in a call in the opponents' favor.

In practice, I've had success making corrections in a more jocular fashion than I would in a match. Oftentimes a little humor goes a long way in preventing hurt feelings.

OrangePower
09-13-2010, 09:50 PM
My teammates and I are all fairly close with each other and are very open about commenting on things (its actually been that way on every team Ive ever played, maybe its a guy thing).

If someone hooks a call in practice (it happens alot even my own partner has done it) I nor anyone else ever hesitates to give that person tons of crap. We usually let them know their call was wrong and that they better not pull that crap in a league match.

+1. Better she hear it from teammates than from anyone else.

Cindysphinx
09-14-2010, 03:34 AM
OK, I will watch for this next practice and will perhaps try to partner with this lady. If it happens again, I think I would have better luck dealing with it partner-to-partner rather than as captain calling a player out on the carpet.

Part of my hesitation is that I just hate it when players behave like sticklers about things during practice. As I said, practice is a weird hybrid between social and match play. When people start behaving as though the most important thing is winning the practice, it gets counterproductive.

Over the years I have captained, I have noticed something: Putting on my captain hat and calling a player out never goes well. People can hear criticism from a coach or a pro, but when it comes from a peer it can be problematic. It tends to destroy any chance of my partnering successfully with that person in the future.

Which is why I wring my hands so darn much about these sorts of situations.

Limpinhitter
09-14-2010, 07:29 AM
I'm wondering what others would do if they felt a team member was hooking in team practice.

I played against someone recently, someone I don't know very well. She was receiving on the ad side as I served. She was shading pretty far over to her BH side, so I decided to slice up the middle. I have been working on using my legs more, and since this was team practice I decided to really go after this serve. As luck would have it, I nailed it: A slice ace that landed on the inside of the center line and shot away from her.

"OUT!" she cried.

I looked over at her partner, who met my gaze with an appalled look.

Had it been an actual match, I would have asked if they were sure of their call while looking at the partner. Since it was team practice, I thought it best to let it go.

Afterward in the match, there were two other calls (baseline and sideline) that seemed well in that this lady called out. There was one call where her partner signaled in when she signaled out (a baseline call when she was at net).

Part of me thinks I should say something to her about it next time we play. The other part of me doesn't wish to get punched in the face.

Since it was practice, the thing to do was just let it go. Right?

I wouldn't let it go. Apparently, she's a cheater. Cheating isn't a mistake. It's a purposeful, intentional act. There's no room for that in tennis. Tennis is a sport of honor. Is cheating in practice somehow less dishonorable than cheating in match play? Cheating isn't winning in practice or match play. If she wants to play, she has to play fairly, by the rules - if any part of the ball touches any part of the line, then it's "in." I would be perfectly blunt and tell her that she's been cheating on her line calls, that there's no tolerance for that on this team, and that, if she's not going to play fair, then she can't play at all. You do the sport a disservice by allowing it to continue. If you can't do it, then let someone who can be captain, or co-captain (enforcer).

LuckyR
09-14-2010, 07:39 AM
I'm wondering what others would do if they felt a team member was hooking in team practice.

I played against someone recently, someone I don't know very well. She was receiving on the ad side as I served. She was shading pretty far over to her BH side, so I decided to slice up the middle. I have been working on using my legs more, and since this was team practice I decided to really go after this serve. As luck would have it, I nailed it: A slice ace that landed on the inside of the center line and shot away from her.

"OUT!" she cried.

I looked over at her partner, who met my gaze with an appalled look.

Had it been an actual match, I would have asked if they were sure of their call while looking at the partner. Since it was team practice, I thought it best to let it go.

Afterward in the match, there were two other calls (baseline and sideline) that seemed well in that this lady called out. There was one call where her partner signaled in when she signaled out (a baseline call when she was at net).

Part of me thinks I should say something to her about it next time we play. The other part of me doesn't wish to get punched in the face.

Since it was practice, the thing to do was just let it go. Right?


You owe it to the rest of your team to call her on it. Perhaps discuss it with your teammate who was her partner that day (the one with the appalled look on her face). She could be approached by the captain, whose responsibility it is. All of your reputations are at stake. Trust me if you guys are in a close match and she comes up with a couple juicy cheating calls in the third set, you will all be painted with the cheater brush.

spot
09-14-2010, 07:45 AM
I can't disagree any more with people saying that its the captain's job to correct this behavior. Being captain is a tough enough job without having to be the person who has to fix every little problem that the team has. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the captain needs to fix everything or else you will make yourself crazy.

In this situation I think the only possible solution is to have people who are playing with her gently overrule her. Don't do it obviously- after she calls a ball out that you saw definitely in just go back and talk to her and tell her that you saw it in and reverse the call together. Once a couple people playing with her start to point out the bad calls in a gentle way she will get the point.

tennisee
09-16-2010, 12:36 AM
I think the thing is that you did not know her very well; in that situation I may have done the same - but if she was joining the team I'd discus it; better then than when she's your partner and makes a bad call in comp.

When you do know them well it's different. When I was captain and playing a practice dubs game wth my team mates I would be more of a stickler than I would during a comp match. Lots of guys would not be up on the rules and play a let when they were unsure of a call; sort of basic mistakes like that, so I'd be hard on them; 'are you sure of your call?' 'if that serve was out you need to let me know' 'if one of you two is unsure then it's our point' 'are you going to ofer me a let on that?' etc in a serious voice etc even though we're joking around in games.

It's a practice - so I think you should practise making quick decisions so you can do it in a match without thinking - same as you practise any other part of the game so you can do it during a match. (any not get distracted after wondering if you did the right thing) Also, as you probably know the rules better than them it's a good way to educate them using teaching examples without being too preachy.

furyballs
09-18-2010, 08:30 PM
Making bad calls and intentionally hooking are not the same thing. Even the pros make bad calls. On the other hand, you can tell if someone is hooking because most of the time the call is in they're favor.

If they are intentionally hooking, they are CHEATING and need to be called on it.

Cheating has become rampant in modern day life and we as tennis players must do our part to stop it.

Steady Eddy
09-18-2010, 09:50 PM
What I like to do when I've been cheated like that is to put my second serve in the exact same spot and help them "improve" their vision.
You can put your second serve in "the exact same spot" at will? Impressive.

tennis tom
09-19-2010, 07:13 AM
You can put your second serve in "the exact same spot" at will? Impressive.

Thank you, especially after I'm ****ed-off about being hooked down the tee, where I have the best view of it.

dlesser13
09-19-2010, 09:37 AM
Slap her in the mouth.

GregOz
09-21-2010, 02:56 AM
A slice ace that landed on the inside of the center line and shot away from her.

What if you're wrong? Sure, you might think or feel that it was good but unless the ball was travelling in slow motion there's no way in the world that you can be absolutely certain it was. If the ball really did hit the inside of the centre line you'd be looking through the net at it. That doesn't constitute a clear view.

Seriously, I just don't get why you'd bring this up here instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt and another match before posting here. That's not good captaincy. You've made an issue about something that could have been a one-off. If you're wrong about her and she never makes another call that you think is wrong (even when you're not in the best position to challenge it), are you going to apologise for doubting her?