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Islandtennis
09-17-2010, 07:01 AM
The USTA is making a couple of code changes for 2011. The first is in unofficiated matches, correcting a call from out to good will result in losing the point vs. replaying the point if the ball was returned in (not being a sitter). This has been done in ITA matches in the past.

The second is getting rid of instructing a player to quit using that "are you sure?" question when questioning a call. A person can still ask it, its just that the Code will not encourage them to.

What are your opinions on these changes?

Cindysphinx
09-17-2010, 07:06 AM
I don't like either change, as they have been described.

I think the Code should do everything possible to encourage players to be honest and correct mistakes.

Loss of point is an awfully harsh penalty for needing to change a call. Look how often professional linespeople get it wrong and reverse themselves. Why should more be expected of people calling their own lines? Also, the Code emphasizes the need for players to be prompt and make calls quickly. Now we're going to also penalize them for making calls too quickly?

Better, I think, would be to allow each player one reversed call per match. After that, it is loss of point.

woodrow1029
09-17-2010, 07:53 AM
Where did you read this?

beststringer
09-17-2010, 07:59 AM
The USTA is making a couple of code changes for 2011. The first is in unofficiated matches, correcting a call from out to good will result in losing the point vs. replaying the point if the ball was returned in (not being a sitter). This has been done in ITA matches in the past.

The second is getting rid of instructing a player to quit using that "are you sure?" question when questioning a call. A person can still ask it, its just that the Code will not encourage them to.

What are your opinions on these changes?

i agree, they both suck. the first one will just make peope shut up.

the second one is not enforceable if usta is just "discouraging" it. It's like telling the bankers "we don't encourage you guys to steal tax payers money"

JLyon
09-17-2010, 08:19 AM
Where did you read this?

Ditto, I would like to know the same thing. Went to school last weekend and nothing was mentioned.

Islandtennis
09-17-2010, 11:41 AM
woodrow,

I sent you a message. Let me know if you did not receive it.

sureshs
09-17-2010, 11:58 AM
Is the source of the info such a big secret that you cannot post it here?

JoelDali
12-14-2010, 11:34 AM
Is the source of the info such a big secret that you cannot post it here?

I have found the source.

http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2010/08/14/Sweden_Afghanistan_Wikileaks.sff_s640x553.jpg?e335 c438e0a24e2e28a31d9cc487fcff1ad42b15

Totai
12-14-2010, 11:43 AM
I have found the source.

http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2010/08/14/Sweden_Afghanistan_Wikileaks.sff_s640x553.jpg?e335 c438e0a24e2e28a31d9cc487fcff1ad42b15

Oh no. Wikileaks got the dirst on the USTA code!

aniretake
12-30-2010, 08:35 AM
I don't like either change, as they have been described.
I think the Code should do everything possible to encourage players to be honest and correct mistakes.
Loss of point is an awfully harsh penalty for needing to change a call. .

I agree with what you said.

fleabitten
12-30-2010, 08:58 AM
If only Wikileaks would get their hands on the confidential USTA algorithm!

levy1
01-03-2011, 05:26 PM
Needs some copy's and cant find them.

Angle Queen
01-04-2011, 04:28 PM
Needs some copy's and cant find them.Try this link from the Pacific Northwest USTA site (http://www.pnw.usta.com/USTA-League/20797_Captains/): Final 2011 USTA Regulations (http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/2011%20USTA%20League%20Regulations%20FINAL.pdf)

Not necessarily The Code...but probably close to what you're looking for.

kevten
01-17-2011, 11:43 AM
The USTA is making a couple of code changes for 2011. The first is in unofficiated matches, correcting a call from out to good will result in losing the point vs. replaying the point if the ball was returned in (not being a sitter).

The second is getting rid of instructing a player to quit using that "are you sure?" question when questioning a call. A person can still ask it, its just that the Code will not encourage them to.
I was at the captain's meeting for the local spring USTA season and they verbally confirmed the first change. I say "verbally confirmed" because they also handed out the little white booklets of the Code, but they were the 2010 version--with the old version in it.

The second one was not mentioned.

beernutz
01-17-2011, 12:25 PM
Try this link from the Pacific Northwest USTA site (http://www.pnw.usta.com/USTA-League/20797_Captains/): Final 2011 USTA Regulations (http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/2011%20USTA%20League%20Regulations%20FINAL.pdf)

Not necessarily The Code...but probably close to what you're looking for.

The 2011 Friend at Court including The Code: http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/2011FAC.pdf

The USTA makes you search for it but it's there.

Here are the changes to The Code:

iv
The Code
[p. 46] Code § 9 was revised to add a statement confirming that either member of a doubles team may make a call.

[p. 47] Code § 12 was revised so that when a player corrects an “out” call to “good,” the player always loses the point. This replaces the previous rule that allowed a let in some circumstances.

[p. 47] Former Code § 16 that specifically allowed a player to ask an opponent whether the opponent was “sure” of an out call has been removed. Removal of this language does not prohibit a player from questioning an opponent’s call when the player genuinely doubts the call.

[p. 50] The second sentence of Code § 40 clarifies when a player must honor an opponent’s request to remove a stray ball.

You're welcome!

Austinthecity
01-17-2011, 01:26 PM
Prediction:

Code changes 2012 ::

[p. 50] The second sentence of Code § 40 clarifies that a player must only honor an opponent's request to remove a stray ball if said ball is on the court being played on or surrounding the court.




"Hey, can you remove that ball from the bushes over there? The code says you have to."

beernutz
01-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Prediction:

Code changes 2012 ::

[p. 50] The second sentence of Code § 40 clarifies that a player must only honor an opponent's request to remove a stray ball if said ball is on the court being played on or surrounding the court.




"Hey, can you remove that ball from the bushes over there? The code says you have to."

Heh. I think the USTA has that possibility covered as they included the term "reasonably close" to limit how far you have to go to please your opponent's requests. If there are bushes reasonably close to the lines on your court you may want to bring a hedge trimmer with you.

40. Retrieving stray balls. Each player is responsible for removing stray balls
and other objects from the player’s end of the court. Whenever a ball is not in play, a player must honor an opponent’s request to remove a ball from the court or from an area outside the court that is reasonably close to the lines. A player shall not go behind an adjacent court to retrieve a ball or ask a player on an adjacent court to return a ball while a point is in play. When a player returns a ball from an adjacent court, the player shall wait until the point is over on the court where the ball is being returned and then return it directly to one of the players, preferably the server.

TenS_Ace
01-17-2011, 05:59 PM
The USTA is making a couple of code changes for 2011. The first is in unofficiated matches, correcting a call from out to good will result in losing the point vs. replaying the point if the ball was returned in (not being a sitter). This has been done in ITA matches in the past.

The second is getting rid of instructing a player to quit using that "are you sure?" question when questioning a call. A person can still ask it, its just that the Code will not encourage them to.

What are your opinions on these changes?
Item #1...it was good...you admitted it..why replay the point..good change!
Item #2...I ALWAYS call my shot wide if it is and the opponent calls it good...any calls made at our levels DO NOT affect our paycheques..so let it go!!:)

Cindysphinx
01-20-2011, 11:33 AM
Has anyone had a reversed call situation yet?

One of my mixed teammates did. The male opponent reversed a call. My teammate told him it was loss of point. He did not know about the rule change. They wound up playing a let rather than fight about it.

It is going to take a while before everyone gets the message on this one . . .

Cindysphinx
02-05-2011, 08:03 PM
You know this new rule about it being loss of point if you reverse your call?

It stinks.

It is bad.

It should be changed to the way it used to be.

It came up again in my 8.0 mixed match tonight. My partner was a delightful 4.5 guy. Scrupulously fair and honest in all things. Calls lines generously.

Opponents were two 4.0s. Male is a kick in the pants. Everybody loves him. Female I hadn't met before, but also seemed nice.

We were having a very close and difficult (but enjoyable and friendly) match. My partner served to the guy in the first set. His partner called it long. He looked at her and said he thought it was probably in. He then turned to us and said, "Take two."

My partner looked at me and didn't say anything. I kept quiet. After he held serve, I said, "Hey, you know the rule was changed for 2011 and that should have been loss of point when they changed their call." He said, "Yeah, I know." And he hesitated. And I said, "I decided not to call them on it because it just felt like a real jerk move." He looked relieved and said, "I agree. It's just not right to take the point. Better to play a let."

There were two other occasions when they called first serves out and the man reversed the woman. They said "Take two," and we did.

I dunno. My 8.0 mixed matches have been so collegial, so friendly, with everyone giving benefit of the doubt and not squabbling over line calls. I think this new rule isn't necessary and would introduce ill will into things.

Also problematic is that my 4.5 partner tonight is the first partner or opponent I have had who has even heard of this new rule. It really seems unfair to spring it on opponents when USTA hasn't done much to alert everyone to it.

I think I will just start operating under the old rule and playing a let. If i am the one who makes a mistake and reverses myself, I will award the point if the opponents ask for it.

jmnk
02-05-2011, 09:37 PM
You know this new rule about it being loss of point if you reverse your call?

It stinks.

It is bad.

It should be changed to the way it used to be.

It came up again in my 8.0 mixed match tonight. My partner was a delightful 4.5 guy. Scrupulously fair and honest in all things. Calls lines generously.

Opponents were two 4.0s. Male is a kick in the pants. Everybody loves him. Female I hadn't met before, but also seemed nice.

We were having a very close and difficult (but enjoyable and friendly) match. My partner served to the guy in the first set. His partner called it long. He looked at her and said he thought it was probably in. He then turned to us and said, "Take two."

My partner looked at me and didn't say anything. I kept quiet. After he held serve, I said, "Hey, you know the rule was changed for 2011 and that should have been loss of point when they changed their call." He said, "Yeah, I know." And he hesitated. And I said, "I decided not to call them on it because it just felt like a real jerk move." He looked relieved and said, "I agree. It's just not right to take the point. Better to play a let."

There were two other occasions when they called first serves out and the man reversed the woman. They said "Take two," and we did.

I dunno. My 8.0 mixed matches have been so collegial, so friendly, with everyone giving benefit of the doubt and not squabbling over line calls. I think this new rule isn't necessary and would introduce ill will into things.

Also problematic is that my 4.5 partner tonight is the first partner or opponent I have had who has even heard of this new rule. It really seems unfair to spring it on opponents when USTA hasn't done much to alert everyone to it.

I think I will just start operating under the old rule and playing a let. If i am the one who makes a mistake and reverses myself, I will award the point if the opponents ask for it.
ok, so how is that different (logistically speaking) from, for example, the following:
- an opponent serves an ace - but it is a let, barely, the flight of the ball was not affected. a hair higher and it would have been a perfect ace. Do you still call a let? Why? Is --that-- right to take away a point?

levy1
02-06-2011, 04:13 AM
Its not a new rule, its always been that way. I keep a extra copy of the code in my bag. When this happens I always walk up to the net and explain the rule and tell them I have a copy for them to read. I allow the point to be played over one time and it has been my experience players are anxious to learn the rules. It always goes friendly for me!

beernutz
02-06-2011, 07:04 PM
ok, so how is that different (logistically speaking) from, for example, the following:
- an opponent serves an ace - but it is a let, barely, the flight of the ball was not affected. a hair higher and it would have been a perfect ace. Do you still call a let? Why? Is --that-- right to take away a point?
Totally different situation. A let is a let, it doesn't matter how much the flight of the ball was changed. You aren't "taking away a point" because there never was a point since a let was called.

beernutz
02-06-2011, 07:06 PM
Its not a new rule, its always been that way. I keep a extra copy of the code in my bag. When this happens I always walk up to the net and explain the rule and tell them I have a copy for them to read. I allow the point to be played over one time and it has been my experience players are anxious to learn the rules. It always goes friendly for me!
If you are talking about Cindy's situation, yes there is a new rule for 2011. Previously a reversed call would be played as a let as they did in her mixed match, but as of 2011 a changed call would result in a point against the team changing the call.

Cindysphinx
02-06-2011, 07:06 PM
Its not a new rule, its always been that way. I keep a extra copy of the code in my bag. When this happens I always walk up to the net and explain the rule and tell them I have a copy for them to read. I allow the point to be played over one time and it has been my experience players are anxious to learn the rules. It always goes friendly for me!

It is a new rule for 2011.

The previous rule said that if a player changed a call from out to good, a let was played provided the ball was returned to the proper court, not as a weak sitter, IIRC.

levy1
02-07-2011, 06:36 AM
It is a new rule for 2011.

The previous rule said that if a player changed a call from out to good, a let was played provided the ball was returned to the proper court, not as a weak sitter, IIRC.

OK, I understand. I missed that rule and when anyone changed It to good we had the point.
Thanks for the update. Keep killing them with your spin!

slice bh compliment
02-07-2011, 06:56 AM
I liked Cindy's take....given that everyone on the court was really cool.
But they're legislating on the basis of the uncool.

The more I read about the USTA league tennis, the more I'm thrilled I play regular tennis (not this contrived nonsense).

Bedrock
02-07-2011, 07:05 AM
Thank you USTA.
I do support straight rules.
In fact the new changes just consolidate previously existed rules.

kylebarendrick
02-07-2011, 10:24 AM
I make a point of mentioning the new rule to the opposing captain when we exchange line-ups so my players don't have to deal with opponents that aren't aware of it.

I still strongly support the change. The server (in Cindy's case) hit a perfectly valid first serve. They shouldn't have to play a do-over just because their opponents blew the call.

Cindysphinx
02-07-2011, 10:27 AM
^Maybe that is the way to handle it. I am not the captain of this team, so it wouldn't be my place to lecture the opponents about the rules.

Perhaps I can do it when I am captaining my own team. . . .

levy1
02-07-2011, 10:39 AM
I liked Cindy's take....given that everyone on the court was really cool.
But they're legislating on the basis of the uncool.

The more I read about the USTA league tennis, the more I'm thrilled I play regular tennis (not this contrived nonsense).

USTA is better tennis because of the rules. Playing in the regular leagues is fun but many players make their own rules like, first one in, lets replay the point and sorry I am 20 minutes late among others.

Second of all I see many good players at the club level join USTA and have to learn how play under competition. Its a different game. A double fault at the club lever is not a big deal but when its during a team competition its takes a lot of work to learn to overcome your nerves. USTA is a different playing arena and in my opinion a lot more fun.

Angle Queen
03-01-2011, 04:43 PM
Bump and an update.

I've experienced two "changed" out-to-in calls in the past week. One time it was me changing my call; today it was my partner. What I guess I'm most surprised...and pleasantly pleased by...was that everyone on the court seemed to know of the new rule, took it in stride and played on. It's almost as if there's no more wiggle-room -- do you or don't you play a let. It's just point to the opposing team. Next up.

Might be a different story come USTA season...but I'll suggest to my captain(s) that they discuss it at line-up exchanges as Kyle does. Good idea, that.

Cindysphinx
03-01-2011, 06:53 PM
Yeah, I had a couple in a match recently.

I served; receiver called it deep. Receiver's partner called it in. They said, "Take two." I figured "Here we go again. But they are delightful opponents, so I won't claim the point."

Later in the match, opponent is serving to me and my partner calls it out but corrects herself. Opponents says it's their point because of the new rule.

I said, "Hey, wait. We gave you a pass when your partner did the same thing." Opponents said the serve was actually a let, and that is why it wasn't loss of point.

Hmmmm. That would be the disposition had my serve been a let, but I sure didn't hear anyone call a let . . . . I guess that's the loophole, the get-out-of-jail-free card. If you say you think you heard a let, you can avoid loss of point.

FWIW, my opponent was saying on the changeover that she is violently opposed to the rule change and thinks there ought to be a letter writing campaign. That is a petition I think I would sign.

10sguy
03-06-2011, 12:02 PM
Two primary reasons for the "Out Calls Corrected" rule change:

1. Widely varying interpretations of the returned shot being - or not being - a "weak sitter. The former rule required playing a let if the returned shot was deemed to NOT be a "weak sitter."

2. Some receivers were calling close balls out, managing to return 'em and then changing their call to good, thereby having an opportunity to replay the point.

I fully agree with the rule change . . . and with the poster who pointed out the unfair aspect of requiring the opponent who hit a good serve/shot to replay the point.

bngnhal
03-13-2011, 06:50 PM
I believe that there is now in effect that foot faults can be called. You have to first warn the person and then they can be called..sorry if i missed this in the previous posts.

ttbrowne
03-14-2011, 03:09 PM
Well, I actually feel that if I miss a call, even honestly, I should lose the point.