PDA

View Full Version : Shop stringer discourages the X-2


Facepalm
09-23-2010, 11:21 AM
I was talking to my local store owner and I mentioned I was thinking of getting a cheap stringing machine. He then went into a whole conversation about why the X-2 and those alike are bad machines and spending anything less than $900 will make for a poor job or even potentialy cause racquet damage. The 3 main problems he cited:

Mounts: A 2 point system can unevenly stress the frame at certain angles and even risk breaking it.

Tension: Drop weight systems tend to ruin the string and produce unreliable tensions.

Clamps: Floating clamps are bad for precision and tension maintenance.

Granted, my guy does stand to lose a fair amount of business if I start stringing myself, but he seemed to come across as genuine and having some fair points. What do you guys think of these comments?

mikeler
09-23-2010, 11:30 AM
I think you are going to have a lot of people here that disagree with your stringer!

Nuke
09-23-2010, 11:30 AM
Well, duh. If you ask the barber whether you need a haircut, the answer is yes.

VGP
09-23-2010, 11:39 AM
What do you guys think of these comments?

Mounts: A 2 point system can unevenly stress the frame at certain angles and even risk breaking it.

- the counter argument is that mounting the frame at 12 and 6 allows the frame to bend and NOT restrict its movement during stringing is better for the frame. Plus the mounts brace the frame over a broader surface area allowing more frame contact where its needed most.

Tension: Drop weight systems tend to ruin the string and produce unreliable tensions.

- tensioning on a dropweight is the most reliable means of applying tension (assuming it's calibrated properly). A system without any surfaces (as most quality dropweights have) that will mar the string will not ruin it.

Clamps: Floating clamps are bad for precision and tension maintenance.

- proper use of well-maintained, quality floating clamps will not affect precision. Experience counts a lot here.

Radicalized
09-23-2010, 11:47 AM
I think you are going to have a lot of people here that disagree with your stringer!

Tired today. I'll just be "disagree with your stringer!" #1 of ...

GPB
09-23-2010, 12:16 PM
Tired today. I'll just be "disagree with your stringer!" #1 of ...

#2.

But my "stringing guy" told me the same thing. Think of it from his perspective... he's gotta try to talk you out of it!

nyc
09-23-2010, 12:21 PM
]
Granted, my guy does stand to lose a fair amount of business if I start stringing myself,

This.


But yes, I'd rather drive across the country in an Aston Martin DBS, but a Yugo will get me there too.

HitItHarder
09-23-2010, 12:21 PM
I was talking to my local store owner and I mentioned I was thinking of getting a cheap stringing machine. He then went into a whole conversation about why the X-2 and those alike are bad machines and spending anything less than $900 will make for a poor job or even potentialy cause racquet damage. The 3 main problems he cited:

Mounts: A 2 point system can unevenly stress the frame at certain angles and even risk breaking it.

Tension: Drop weight systems tend to ruin the string and produce unreliable tensions.

Clamps: Floating clamps are bad for precision and tension maintenance.Granted, my guy does stand to lose a fair amount of business if I start stringing myself, but he seemed to come across as genuine and having some fair points. What do you guys think of these comments?

First, you don't have to spend a ton of money to get a 6 pt mounting system and fixed clamps. I use an Alpha Revo 4000 that fits in this category. But even with something like the X-2, someone can do a high quality string job.

People have been stringing on 2 pt mounting systems for a very long time. Even high end ($2000-$3000) stringers today come with that option. If the racquet is properly mounted, there shouldn't be a problem.

Drop weights are constant pull. User error may give you inconsistent results, but it wouldn't be because of the drop weight. User error can give you inconsistent results on ANY stringer.

Floating clamps, if used properly are going to give you a consistent results as well. You just may have to adjust your pull/reference tension to find your preferred string bed feel.

So I guess you would say I disagree.

Irvin
09-23-2010, 12:31 PM
Well I do not like 2 point mounting systems or floating clamps for reasons other than what your stringer said, but that does not make them bad. Drop weight stringers will not hard the string any more than any other stringer.

When I was in the market for a machine once I asked my stringer about one and his comment was the manufacturer will not sell the machine to anyone without a business license.

Irvin

nacolo
09-23-2010, 01:26 PM
I was talking to my local store owner and I mentioned I was thinking of getting a cheap stringing machine. He then went into a whole conversation about why the X-2 and those alike are bad machines and spending anything less than $900 will make for a poor job or even potentialy cause racquet damage. The 3 main problems he cited:

Mounts: A 2 point system can unevenly stress the frame at certain angles and even risk breaking it.

Tension: Drop weight systems tend to ruin the string and produce unreliable tensions.

Clamps: Floating clamps are bad for precision and tension maintenance.

Granted, my guy does stand to lose a fair amount of business if I start stringing myself, but he seemed to come across as genuine and having some fair points. What do you guys think of these comments?
2 point system on X2 secures the racket very, very good.
Then the main strings' tensions hold the racket in uniform shape before the crosses
even get installed.
Nothing is BAD with 2 point system on the X2.

lionel_101
09-23-2010, 06:49 PM
If I were you, I would buy the Gamma X-2 and a reel of the string you like and start stringing your own racquets. You will save a lot of money in the long run.

If you get good at it and like stringing, you can even string your friends racquets for a low price and recoup the cost of the stringer and reel of string in no time at all.

I bought my X-2, got good at stringing racquetball racquets and started stringing racquets for $10.00 for members and friends at my club. I recouped my costs many times over in a few months. Of course the club stringer didn't like it, as I took over half of his stringing buisness away.

I am very happy with my Gamma X-2 and would recommend it highly, if price is an issue, as it was for me. However, there are other low cost stringing machines that are just as good. Do some research and decide which one is best for you.

beernutz
09-23-2010, 07:18 PM
I was talking to my local store owner and I mentioned I was thinking of getting a cheap stringing machine. He then went into a whole conversation about why the X-2 and those alike are bad machines and spending anything less than $900 will make for a poor job or even potentialy cause racquet damage. The 3 main problems he cited:Mounts: A 2 point system can unevenly stress the frame at certain angles and even risk breaking it.

Tension: Drop weight systems tend to ruin the string and produce unreliable tensions.

Clamps: Floating clamps are bad for precision and tension maintenance.
Granted, my guy does stand to lose a fair amount of business if I start stringing myself, but he seemed to come across as genuine and having some fair points. What do you guys think of these comments?
What machine does your stringer use?

IMO, while his first and last points are debatable, his second point about drop weights is moronic.

mikeler
09-24-2010, 05:03 AM
Well I do not like 2 point mounting systems or floating clamps for reasons other than what your stringer said, but that does not make them bad. Drop weight stringers will not hard the string any more than any other stringer.

When I was in the market for a machine once I asked my stringer about one and his comment was the manufacturer will not sell the machine to anyone without a business license.

Irvin


Priceless!

Irvin
09-24-2010, 06:40 AM
^^ That was the last time I ever walked in his shop LOL

Irvin

Facepalm
09-24-2010, 08:34 AM
What machine does your stringer use?

IMO, while his first and last points are debatable, his second point about drop weights is moronic.I didn't look actually. All I know is it's a Babolat and electronic pull.

I just put in an order for an X-2 BTW. :)

Cruzer
09-24-2010, 09:18 AM
This shop stringer obviously has no idea what he is talking about. If the X-2 and similar machines were as bad as he claims then there would be stream of complaints and warnings on these boards about the dangers of these less costly stringer but surprise, surprise there isn't.

mikeler
09-24-2010, 09:23 AM
I didn't look actually. All I know is it's a Babolat and electronic pull.

I just put in an order for an X-2 BTW. :)


Welcome to the stringers club. Once you get over the initial frustrations of learning how to do it, I think you'll be very happy with your purchase.

Irvin
09-24-2010, 10:25 AM
I didn't look actually. All I know is it's a Babolat and electronic pull.

I just put in an order for an X-2 BTW. :)

OMG I can not believe it. You are going to break your racket ruin the string and most of all ruin your tension maintenance. LMAO.

Great choice by the way. LOL

Irvin

mikeler
09-24-2010, 10:43 AM
Make sure you apply for that business permit before use!

mrw
09-24-2010, 11:25 AM
I would put one of my Klippermate string jobs up against anyone's work. The guy is trying to make a living. Look upon him as you would a used car salesman.

Irvin
09-24-2010, 04:19 PM
This shop stringer obviously has no idea what he is talking about. If the X-2 and similar machines were as bad as he claims then there would be stream of complaints and warnings on these boards about the dangers of these less costly stringer but surprise, surprise there isn't.

This guy knows what he is talking about. He is trying to keep his customers by lying to them.

I will agree that the X2 is not the best stringer (or fastest) there is but in the hands of a capable stringer is it as good as you will ever need. It is like mind over matter. It time doesn't matter and you are willing to accept the drawbacks of flying clamps it is good enough for anyone.

Irvin

Kot_Bigemot
09-25-2010, 09:50 AM
I was talking to my local store owner and I mentioned I was thinking of getting a cheap stringing machine. He then went into a whole conversation about why the X-2 and those alike are bad machines and spending anything less than $900 will make for a poor job or even potentialy cause racquet damage. The 3 main problems he cited:Mounts: A 2 point system can unevenly stress the frame at certain angles and even risk breaking it.

Tension: Drop weight systems tend to ruin the string and produce unreliable tensions.

Clamps: Floating clamps are bad for precision and tension maintenance.
Granted, my guy does stand to lose a fair amount of business if I start stringing myself, but he seemed to come across as genuine and having some fair points. What do you guys think of these comments?
Well, i would be in "disagree with your stringer" section.
I usually do not like to call names and all but, your stringer's comments make just one word appear in my mind - "MORON".
He is trying to keep a customer by lying. Not going to work, not for long anyway.
I own X-2 and Babolat Star 5. One of the best stringers on the market imo.
And we ran many tests with friends between X-2 and Star 5. Assuming that you are good, you can do a string job just as good on X-2 as on Star 5.
We proved it many times by checking string bed consistency, tension and accuracy.
The only reason you would need to buy a commercial quality stringer is - if you string more than 8-10 frames per week.
THERE IS NO OTHER REASON TO BUY A COMMERCIAL STRINGER.
I own a small shop with my friend and i am a home stringer at the same time. For my racquets, especially stringing with natural gut, i prefer actually X-2.

EDIT: By the way, read my signature...you may see your stringer behind those words :-)

JZImmer123
09-25-2010, 04:48 PM
Let me jump on the "disagree with the OP's stringer" bandwagon and say that guy is full of bullshoy!

I'm definitely not a great stringer but my X-2 does the job just fine for me. I only string once or twice a month unless one of my friends needs a stick strung up and I have no complaints or issues with the X-2. It's a great stringer, especially for beginners.

Radicalized
09-26-2010, 02:56 AM
Go back to the store and tell him you've changed your mind in that he talked you out of the X-2 and low-priced machines, and you're getting the Babolat Sensor Expert. See what he says and report back. He'll probably tell you that you need a license, like Irvin got, and ten years of intense training. :)

And I own an X-2.:cool:

barry
09-26-2010, 06:28 AM
The X-2 will string your rackets, but after owning drop weight machines with floating and fixed clamps, why not spend the extra money and get fixed clamps. The fixed clamps for me were a major improvement with better consistency and easier to use.
If you do any volume you will find electronic machines are faster and more idiot proof than drop weights. Between the drop weight and Electronic machines, tension seems more consistent on the drop weight, but it takes about 10 minutes on average longer to string a racket, plus working the drop weight assembly without 360 rotations is cumbersome.
If you want ease and speed buy an electronic machine, but if you are willing to spend 45 minutes on average stringing a racket, then the drop weight will work fine. I like to complete 2 rackets an hour when stringing, so pretty much use the electronic machines these days, they really spoil you in a hurry. Or better yet, try out a few machines before you buy, it will help you narrow down your selection.

SirGounder
09-27-2010, 08:33 AM
I started with the X2 and loved it just because I could string my own racquets. The only reason I upgraded to the 602FC is because I got an awesome deal and sold the X2 for more than I paid for it.

I love the idiot proof factor of dropweights. There is no calibration to worry about. Of course if the bar was etched incorrectly from the factory then I'm out of luck there.

Josh10s
09-27-2010, 08:40 AM
A good stringer can produce quality results on any machine that he is comfortable using. What type of stringer are you?

That being said... Since stringing is my profession, it would not make business sense for me to string all day on an X-2 when I can be much more efficient with a quality electronic constant pull machine.

Also the nicer machines with better mounting will help prevent simple mistakes that can lead to bad results... Particularly for beginner stringers.

Josh10s
09-27-2010, 08:43 AM
One more thing... Just because the OP's stringer has a horse in the race doesn't mean that his opinion isn't valid. If someone came up to me and asked about buying a X-2 I would give them the pros and cons, if they were a customer or not. That is what true professionals do.

SirGounder
09-30-2010, 08:15 AM
I also believe professionals should help out anybody who asks for advice. I think the issue here is that the stringer was giving what appears to be extremely biased information, which makes him look dishonest.

I don't know if he mentioned any of the good things about stringing for yourself and the X2. Perhaps he doesn't know. He might not even be a stringer himself and thus not know a whole lot. The OP said that he is the shop owner. I know my local shop owner know jack but his main employee's head is swollen with tennis knowledge.

I think the owner should have gone through the pros and cons of the X2 and then perhaps suggest that the OP spend more money to get a better machine. That might dissuade him from actually buying a machine.

The other explanation is that the dude is just an ignorant fool.

origmarm
10-05-2010, 04:47 AM
Mounts: A 2 point system can unevenly stress the frame at certain angles and even risk breaking it.

Tension: Drop weight systems tend to ruin the string and produce unreliable tensions.

Clamps: Floating clamps are bad for precision and tension maintenance.


Just for reference at the moment I do most of my stringing on an SP Swing. I've strung on a lot (say 20 or so) machines though varying from a Sensor to a Klipper.

I'm also in the disagree camp but I will make a few comments in favour of the stringer on a "benefit of the doubt" basis:

1) The 2 point vs 6 point mounting debate is one that even people with a lot of experience don't necessarily agree on. I fall in the camp that says both are fine but I know at least two MRTs who disagree with me on this, though both agree that it's marginal at best. I do believe that it's easier to mount a 2 point mount poorly, especially on one of the lower end machines and this contributes to many problems the inexperienced have with them.

2) While I think the second part re uneven tensions to be just rubbish I think what he may be referencing here is rotational grippers (which a lot of the lower end machines come with) vs linear grippers. I have seen some issues with rotational grippers and poly in the past with kinking. Again this likely contributes to many problems the inexperienced have with them alongside string handling skills in general

3) Again I think this is an experience issue. I've seen some awful use of floating clamps and I do think it's easier to get wrong than with fixed clamps, particularly starting the mains/crosses. That and there's no denying the drawback. Stringing is about consistency and being consistent is easier with fixed clamps.

So to summarise I tend to believe that on the whole he's wrong but that the key condition here is that these lower end machines CAN produce an equal job to a higher end machine BUT that this is more difficult/requires more experience than the higher end machines and is more reliant on good technique.

Like it was said earlier in this thread, the Yugo will get you there, it just won't be as easy, pleasant and forgiving as the Mercedes

Jeffy005
10-05-2010, 05:21 AM
Obviously that's what he is going to tell you..... :twisted:

'hey man i'm buying my own stringing machine'
stringer 'what kinda stringing machine are you going to buy?'
'i dont know yet a cheap one around 400-700 dollars'
stringer 'nah don't buy one around that range bcuz they suck'

Do you know why he is telling you all of that negative stuff?
ANSWER: "HE IS GOING TO LOSE BUSINESS!!!!:twisted:"

:)

Donny0627
10-11-2010, 05:40 AM
yea once i bought my gamma 602, I asked my old stringer a question about stringing. He proceeded to tell me that "if you were gonna get a machine you shouldve atleast gotten a good one". Then, refering to my question, he said, "Yea I used to have that problem even though I have a good machine"

theace21
10-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Well, duh. If you ask the barber whether you need a haircut, the answer is yes.
That is why everyone needs a FlowBee.