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tennisdad65
09-24-2010, 03:59 PM
What do you estimate the NTRP of national top 10 guys in the 40s, 45s, 50s, 55s, 60s are?
These are my guesses
40s - 6.0
45s - 5.5 - 6.0
50s - 5.0 - 5.5 (except John McEnroe :) )
55s - 4.75 - 5.0
60s - 4.5+ though I imagine the 60s national champ will crush most 4.5s in socal

LeeD
09-24-2010, 04:47 PM
Close, I played the finalist in National's 65's who was 67 years old and he said he was about between 4.0 and 4.5. He crushed me badly, but next time, we were even.
I'm about 4.0.

J011yroger
09-24-2010, 06:30 PM
You are pretty close to my guesses. The top 40's guys are still REALLY good, and could win matches against guys with ATP points, or ranked DI kids, but they just can't play every day.

So if they had to play one match next week against 19 year old babolat toting DI punk kid, they could get it done, if they had to play the same kid every day for a week, not so much.

Gene Mayer is around here, and he says that he has still got it, and can beat guys with points.

Would love to get a hit with him and see for myself.

My friend was #1 in the world in 55s, and I would consider him a 5.5 player at that time (he is 61 or 62 now I think.) He practiced with a guy who played #2 for Duke, and told me that he struggled to win games off the Duke guy, who was I believe in his late 20's but still playing often.

J

atatu
09-24-2010, 06:39 PM
You are pretty close to my guesses. The top 40's guys are still REALLY good, and could win matches against guys with ATP points, or ranked DI kids, but they just can't play every day.

So if they had to play one match next week against 19 year old babolat toting DI punk kid, they could get it done, if they had to play the same kid every day for a week, not so much.

Gene Mayer is around here, and he says that he has still got it, and can beat guys with points.

Would love to get a hit with him and see for myself.

My friend was #1 in the world in 55s, and I would consider him a 5.5 player at that time (he is 61 or 62 now I think.) He practiced with a guy who played #2 for Duke, and told me that he struggled to win games off the Duke guy, who was I believe in his late 20's but still playing often.

J

A couple of years ago Gene Mayer got a wild card into the Challenger tournament in Hawaii. I don't know if he was just vacationing there or what, I think he was about 44 at the time. Anyway, he won his first round match, so yeah, I'm pretty sure he'd crush you (no offense).

J011yroger
09-24-2010, 06:46 PM
A couple of years ago Gene Mayer got a wild card into the Challenger tournament in Hawaii. I don't know if he was just vacationing there or what, I think he was about 44 at the time. Anyway, he won his first round match, so yeah, I'm pretty sure he'd crush you (no offense).

No, I fully believe him, it would just be cool to see what he hit like. I have played ATP guys (and collected asswhoopings from them) before, and can drill groundstrokes with most anyone.

Same thing with Mac, of course he could kick my ***, but it would still be cool as heck to hit with him.

J

NLBwell
09-24-2010, 06:54 PM
The OP is not giving enough credit to the older guys. My dad was 5.0 into his 60's and well into his 70's before he dropped from 4.5 to 4.0. The drop in athletic performance is very gradual until into the 80's. Maybe OP is 0.5 low for most of the ages - probably not much difference between 45 and 55 if the player stays injury-free.

J011yroger
09-24-2010, 07:08 PM
The OP is not giving enough credit to the older guys. My dad was 5.0 into his 60's and well into his 70's before he dropped from 4.5 to 4.0. The drop in athletic performance is very gradual until into the 80's. Maybe OP is 0.5 low for most of the ages - probably not much difference between 45 and 55 if the player stays injury-free.

The rating system is so hazy that .5 isn't much of a difference, it just depends on how you interpret it, and if you are only talking about singles.

Especially the way USTA teams are set up. Every 5.0 team has at least 1 5.5-6.0 ringer to play the singles spot, so if you are a legit 5.0 singles player you can't play on a 5.0 team because you get crushed by the other team's ringer.

And so you end up playing for a 4.5 team, or doubles on a 5.0 team, and that leaves a whole little segment of the population that is too good to play 4.5 singles, and not nearly good enough to play 5.0 singles.

Of course if you go by how the ratings were intended, then most all of the 4.5 singles players are actually 5.0s and almost everyone on 5.0 teams are 5.5-6.0 players.

Thankfully it isn't my job or desire to attach numbers to people, I just play.

J

tennisdad65
09-24-2010, 08:01 PM
The OP is not giving enough credit to the older guys. My dad was 5.0 into his 60's and well into his 70's before he dropped from 4.5 to 4.0. The drop in athletic performance is very gradual until into the 80's. Maybe OP is 0.5 low for most of the ages - probably not much difference between 45 and 55 if the player stays injury-free.

You are more likely to know better than me. My guesses were just that.. 'guesses' from my limited viewing of local tournaments.

I am 45, and am lucky to get to play with a couple of nationally ranked guys in their 50s, 60s. I used to get crushed (6-0,6-1 type sets) by them about 3 years back, but am now getting better (6-3,6-4,7-5 type sets). Maybe the 3 yrs have taken a bigger toll on them :)

darrinbaker00
09-24-2010, 09:35 PM
What do you estimate the NTRP of national top 10 guys in the 40s, 45s, 50s, 55s, 60s are?
These are my guesses
40s - 6.0
45s - 5.5 - 6.0
50s - 5.0 - 5.5 (except John McEnroe :) )
55s - 4.75 - 5.0
60s - 4.5+ though I imagine the 60s national champ will crush most 4.5s in socal

You don't have to estimate, you know. If you look at where the ranked players are from, you can figure out which section they represent, and then you can go to that section's website and look up that player's rating.

Limpinhitter
09-25-2010, 04:43 AM
* * * Thankfully it isn't my job or desire to attach numbers to people, I just play.

J

Couldn't agree more!

nickarnold2000
09-25-2010, 07:17 AM
The OP is not giving enough credit to the older guys. My dad was 5.0 into his 60's and well into his 70's before he dropped from 4.5 to 4.0. The drop in athletic performance is very gradual until into the 80's. Maybe OP is 0.5 low for most of the ages - probably not much difference between 45 and 55 if the player stays injury-free.
And, it should be added, continues to work on his fitness. :)

goober
09-25-2010, 10:02 AM
Just look it up. I'll just do the #1 player for each level

2009 final national rankings USTA

40s Collins, Eoin rating 5.5

45s Stoner, Andrew 5.0

50s Wilder, Vallis 5.5

55s Robinson, Fred A 5.0

60s Bolton, Padq Unrated
#2 Cheney, Brian 5.0

65s Bethard, William 4.5

goober
09-25-2010, 10:07 AM
The OP is not giving enough credit to the older guys. My dad was 5.0 into his 60's and well into his 70's before he dropped from 4.5 to 4.0. The drop in athletic performance is very gradual until into the 80's. Maybe OP is 0.5 low for most of the ages - probably not much difference between 45 and 55 if the player stays injury-free.

Not taking anything away from your Dad. He well may have had 5.0 tennis skills, but I have seen nationally ranked players in their 60s enter open tournaments and they will inevitably get crushed by 5.0s rated players in their 20s and 30s.

escii_35
09-25-2010, 12:57 PM
The guy who won the state open sgl 55's wins 50% of the time at dubs in the the 4.5 adult level and has been to nationals more then a few times at the senior level. After one set with him walking over to the sideline for a nice puke is about my only option.

Based on that the I'll guess the top 10 55's dubs would be solid 5.0's and singles highend 4.5's.

drakulie
09-25-2010, 05:30 PM
I've hit with Andy Lake, Carlos Gomez Diaz, Val Wilder, etc. Lake is 41? now and is still top player in the 30's division as well as Diaz. lake won the Grand Slam a few years ago. Diaz has won the 30's and 35 national clay court championships 2 years in a row, plus a bunch of other nationals.

Val wilder is a legend in the 30, 35, and 45's.

I would consider them all 5.5 or + players.

NLBwell
09-25-2010, 09:09 PM
Just look it up. I'll just do the #1 player for each level

2009 final national rankings USTA

40s Collins, Eoin rating 5.5

45s Stoner, Andrew 5.0

50s Wilder, Vallis 5.5

55s Robinson, Fred A 5.0

60s Bolton, Padq Unrated
#2 Cheney, Brian 5.0

65s Bethard, William 4.5

Maybe the argument turns out to be the definition of the rankings for high-end players (not enough of them to be consistent, maybe) more than the abilities of the top senior players.

Game-Set-MATCH!!!
09-26-2010, 06:26 AM
Maybe the argument turns out to be the definition of the rankings for high-end players (not enough of them to be consistent, maybe) more than the abilities of the top senior players.

yeah i will completely agree on this one......

Game-Set-MATCH!!!
09-26-2010, 06:27 AM
I can hardly wait till oct 1-4!!!! rancho mariage is all ours!!! my team recieved a wild card to go to nationals!!! were 8.0 mixed

tennisdad65
09-26-2010, 06:44 AM
Just look it up. I'll just do the #1 player for each level
2009 final national rankings USTA
40s Collins, Eoin rating 5.5
45s Stoner, Andrew 5.0
50s Wilder, Vallis 5.5
55s Robinson, Fred A 5.0
60s Bolton, Padq Unrated
#2 Cheney, Brian 5.0
65s Bethard, William 4.5

Good work. Thanks. How did you find their NTRP? I tried to but could only find their age group rankings. That USTA rankings / ratings search and site irritates the hell out of me. I can never find what I am looking for. I will give it another shot..

goober
09-26-2010, 03:20 PM
Good work. Thanks. How did you find their NTRP? I tried to but could only find their age group rankings. That USTA rankings / ratings search and site irritates the hell out of me. I can never find what I am looking for. I will give it another shot..

go to "find a rating" and type in their names.

jhick
09-27-2010, 07:06 AM
What do you estimate the NTRP of national top 10 guys in the 40s, 45s, 50s, 55s, 60s are?
These are my guesses
40s - 6.0
45s - 5.5 - 6.0
50s - 5.0 - 5.5 (except John McEnroe :) )
55s - 4.75 - 5.0
60s - 4.5+ though I imagine the 60s national champ will crush most 4.5s in socal


This sounds about right. I know the head pro at the Edina country club in MN that is nationally ranked in 50's and he's rated a 5.5. Former U of M player. Supposedly he plays with David Wheaton regularly and occasionally takes a set off him. I've seen him play and he looks like he's barely trying out there. Doesn't hit the ball all that hard or anything but has pinpoint placement.

dthomas
09-28-2010, 07:29 PM
I was wondering how these guys can play that much tennis at these ages and stay injury free. I would think to play at that level you need to be on the court quite a few hours a week, like the pros. I'm thinking that would take a toll on your body after so many years, especially on the hard courts. Those guys that play at the top level, injury free, really amaze me. I don't know how they can keep doing it year after year.

tennisdad65
09-28-2010, 07:58 PM
I was wondering how these guys can play that much tennis at these ages and stay injury free. I would think to play at that level you need to be on the court quite a few hours a week, like the pros. I'm thinking that would take a toll on your body after so many years, especially on the hard courts. Those guys that play at the top level, injury free, really amaze me. I don't know how they can keep doing it year after year.

There is one guy I know who plays in the 60s, ranked around 10 in socal, solid 4.5. He started tennis ~8 yrs ago, i.e. in his 50s. He is semi-retired and plays 5-6 days a week, 3-4 hours a day, mostly singles. I really envy him. If I play 3 days a week, I risk injury. He is fitter than most 20 yr olds.

Kick_It
09-28-2010, 08:48 PM
Guys in any of these age groups can be former tour players including former ATP #1s. Usually guys who were that good have got it out of their system by now - but occasionally they'll show up for a tournament.

Case in point - Rick Leach played only one tournament the year I played 40s; he won the clay court nationals and finished ranked 21 nationally. If he played more I'm sure he would have been ranked higher.

Don't worry about NTRP for these guys. I think 'Crazy Good' sums it up.

Injuries are a problem. My first year of 40s I only played 4 tournaments but worst result was a quarterfinal @ a national tier II. 2nd point of 2nd round the tournament after that, I tore my left soleus and couldn't play for 8 months - so I couldn't play national hardcourts...

K_I

drakulie
09-29-2010, 07:06 AM
Case in point - Rick Leach played only one tournament the year I played 40s; he won the clay court nationals and finished ranked 21 nationally. If he played more I'm sure he would have been ranked higher.

Don't worry about NTRP for these guys. I think 'Crazy Good' sums it up.




Agree. He (Leach, 9-time grand slam champion and former number 1) won the 45's clay court championships this year in singles, and made the doubles final (he won it the year before). The guy he beat (Tabares) won the ITF World Championships in singles and doubles the same year, and this year has won the grass (over Leach), and some other national championship.

"Crazy good" does sum it up really well.

sureshs
09-29-2010, 07:21 AM
Didn't you string for Rick Leach?

BTW, he is Lindsay Davenport's brother-in-law. Story goes that her husband (the younger brother) didn't pursue professional tennis after watching how little money Rick made in doubles and how hard he had to work for it. He got into real estate instead.

drakulie
09-29-2010, 08:10 AM
^^^yeah, I was able to string for Leach throughout the tournament. Very nice guy.

I'd take the slams over the realestate. I'm sure Leach is well off.

Nellie
09-29-2010, 05:53 PM
The rating system is so hazy that .5 isn't much of a difference, it just depends on how you interpret it, and if you are only talking about singles.



Totally agree- once you get to a certain level, the differences are sometimes academic. For example, I have a buddy who was a scholarship D1 player with a solid college record. He starts the year with a 5.5 rating, enters a pro-qualifier and wins, beating some good players, enters the main draw and takes games off a well-known pro and, more importantly, wins some prize money and gets some ATP points and world ranking. So now, his rating changes to 6.5 in about two weeks.

darrinbaker00
09-29-2010, 06:02 PM
Guys in any of these age groups can be former tour players including former ATP #1s. Usually guys who were that good have got it out of their system by now - but occasionally they'll show up for a tournament.

Case in point - Rick Leach played only one tournament the year I played 40s; he won the clay court nationals and finished ranked 21 nationally. If he played more I'm sure he would have been ranked higher.

Don't worry about NTRP for these guys. I think 'Crazy Good' sums it up.

Injuries are a problem. My first year of 40s I only played 4 tournaments but worst result was a quarterfinal @ a national tier II. 2nd point of 2nd round the tournament after that, I tore my left soleus and couldn't play for 8 months - so I couldn't play national hardcourts...

K_I

Rick Leach is currently ranked 325 spots ahead of me in the 45s. ;)

darrinbaker00
09-29-2010, 06:10 PM
Didn't you string for Rick Leach?

BTW, he is Lindsay Davenport's brother-in-law. Story goes that her husband (the younger brother) didn't pursue professional tennis after watching how little money Rick made in doubles and how hard he had to work for it. He got into real estate instead.

Yes, I'm sure being not quite good enough had absolutely nothing to do with Jon Leach's decision. ;)

NLBwell
09-29-2010, 10:14 PM
Well, motivation has a lot to do with how good you are. Don't really know how he compared to Rick talent-wise, but if he didn't see it as a life goal, he wouldn't have gotten as good.