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View Full Version : My stringing business... Website progress. Comments?


Bottle Rocket
10-03-2010, 09:15 PM
What do you guys think so far?

http://hstrial-briansrackets.intuitwebsites.com/index.html

Lot's more to come!

COPEY
10-03-2010, 09:53 PM
Not a bad start, but I do have one observation.

This statement..."inexpensive racket stringing"...is a bit misleading, isn't it? It seems to beg the question, "compared to what?" For instance, Cyberflash is $7.50 a set, yet you advertise $25 to install it. Again, I'm not saying your prices are outrageous. My guess is you charge approx $15 for labor and you mark-up the string. My point is you might want to consider rephrasing the opening sentence under Servicing & Pricing.

armsty
10-03-2010, 10:09 PM
About me shouldn't have a picture of Federer on it haha

Ash_Smith
10-04-2010, 01:05 AM
This statement..."inexpensive racket stringing"...is a bit misleading, isn't it? It seems to beg the question, "compared to what?"

Agree, what is it that makes you inexpensive - do you only string with cheap string? Are you not very good?!

I would suggest you look at some of your descriptions and phrasing - it comes across as a hobby rather than a business - if you want to sell your services you need to "sell" them, not give the impression that you're a college student who does this as a bit on the side - unless that is your aim.

Ash

Irvin
10-04-2010, 04:35 AM
About me shouldn't have a picture of Federer on it haha

I am sure he has paid for the rights to use Roger Federer's and Andre Agassi's pictures on his website. 'Bottle Rocket' you did pay for those picture rights didn't you? You have heard of copyright infringement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement), haven't you?

Just in case you are not aware, photographers pay for the rights to use pictures of famous people and sell those pictures to others that want to use those pictures in marketing. Now if you take a picture of Roger playing tennis and stick it on your desktop there is no problem. If you use that picture to market something it is a different story. Trust me, you do not want some lawyer sending you a letter explaining this to you.

You know there is a reason you put Andre and Roger's pictures on your web site instead of John Dough'$ picture. Be honest with your customers and just tell the facts man nothing else.

Irvin

mikeler
10-04-2010, 04:51 AM
I think you are off to a good start, but the comments above all came to mind when I looked at your website. Good luck with your stringing and more importantly, your college degree. Engineers rule. :)

tennisace23
10-04-2010, 05:06 AM
There was some study done once that the average person spends about 7 seconds per page on a new website. The point is, get your point across quickly. I wouldn't mention that you've been stringing/playing for 5 years--that's not that long. I think most of the information about you is entirely unnecessary and even a distraction. I'd rather know what kind of machine you are stringing on than what your college degree is in, your rating, or how often you play.

MAX PLY
10-04-2010, 05:28 AM
I agree with the point on "inexpensive" above--I think you would be better off focusing on value and experience (although as to this latter point, 5 years doesn't seem that long). I think you should strongly consider getting a USRSA certification--otherwise you are just a guy who has been playing a lot less than me who thinks he knows how to string. Likewise, words like "fiddling" are not terribly persuasive to me in seeking a qualified stringer. If I am a college student looking to get my sticks done cheaply, maybe I use you--but if I really care, your site does not compel me to use you--sorry.

Irvin's point about the pictures is dead on--nothing can shut you down quicker and expose you to money damages like copyright infringment as well as using the images of pros without compensation. I would get those images off as soon as possible--seriously.

Radicalized
10-04-2010, 01:01 PM
I would take your site down now and work on it. I've dealt with corporate communications, public relations, and marketing. I'm not a lawyer, but I've taken courses in communications law. Do what those above have suggested. If you want photos, buy stock or take your own.

While you sound like you are being honest, your "About Me" page (if anyone ever gets there) is not going to sell for you. So many more people on this board have more qualifications than you--and in its current form, anyone who knows anything about tennis would be able to guess that. It is not written to impress. If you are a 4.5 tournament player, say that. If you have experience stringing various racquets with a variety of string types and set-ups, say that--but on another page. Keep it simple.The page (I'm sorry) sounds like a bad resume.

With a background in engineering...
NTRP 4.5 player...
Short. Simple. Don't add things on the "About Me" page to try to sell. Leave that for the main or a FAQs page. The "About Me" page should include that info, as noted above, that will make people think, "I'm dealing with an intelligent person who actually knows the sport." This is after you've explained the benefits of quality racquet stringing and so forth on the appropriate pages. That's it.

And this, as noted by others, "specialize in inexpensive racket stringing" means what? That translates into, whether you think so or not, "cheap." You sell yourself as "quality" and start off being "inexpensive." Smart "consumers" wonder why things are cheap. If your market is the person who barely knows string can be changed and it comes in more than just white, maybe they won't care so much. However, if you're talking to the person who wants his "Big Banger" with some softer synthetic than he currently uses, and he feels like the ball is flying on him, you can bet he will wonder. And your prices aren't anything special to even bother saying "inexpensive." Maybe "reasonable." For Cyber Flash, that amounts to what, about $18 for the stringing if a person were to buy his own string? That is not unheard of elsewhere, and you are just entering the market. You can't fight a battle with competitors simply by deflating the market, if that were to become the case. You'll doom yourself soon enough.

And an above poster is correct: Look into certification. You'll see at least "USRSA" at stores that specialize, at least partly, in tennis. "Organized" credibility. Its value is more than the cost to do so.

max
10-04-2010, 01:09 PM
Is this done with a template?

Radicalized
10-04-2010, 01:14 PM
He might be using this: http://www.intuit.com/website-building-software/

Parker512
10-04-2010, 01:48 PM
like the guy said above WARNING WARNING watch out for lawyers they'll try to make an easy buck like that any day.

Winky
10-04-2010, 02:32 PM
I think you guys are being a little too rough on the guy. It's a racquet stringing business for chrissakes, not some big corporate web site. The fact that he has any sort of web presence at all is more than 90% of his competition.

stringwalla
10-04-2010, 02:32 PM
wow, wilson syn-gut installed for $22.

You would need to drive to my house and string it on the spot for that $$$ mark-up. Just kidding-

I know shops can charge $20 labor, but they have overhead and only give the stringer about $10.

Getting certified will help your cause, but you need to drop you labor charge a bit-

Radicalized
10-04-2010, 02:45 PM
I think you guys are being a little too rough on the guy. It's a racquet stringing business for chrissakes, not some big corporate web site. The fact that he has any sort of web presence at all is more than 90% of his competition.


Poor presentation gets you nowhere. A bad site will kill you as quickly as bad word of mouth. The competition may not need a site or may be part of a chain, for example. If you are going to put yourself out there to the entire world, do it well. Write it well. Present yourself in the best manner possible. Get your points across quickly and effectively. In a business like this, you only have your knowledge, skill, and integrity. The site must reflect that clearly.

theace21
10-04-2010, 06:23 PM
Your links on the contact page don't work. Good luck with your business.

dgdawg
10-05-2010, 05:22 AM
wow, wilson syn-gut installed for $22.

You would need to drive to my house and string it on the spot for that $$$ mark-up. Just kidding-

I know shops can charge $20 labor, but they have overhead and only give the stringer about $10.

Getting certified will help your cause, but you need to drop you labor charge a bit-

This is what I charge. $20 labor and I don't mark up string.
My objective is not to compete with anyone. There's really no other professional stringers in my town. (I'm not including the local "box" sports stores).
I put my service on par with the pro shop 25 miles away. My objective is to offer "pro shop" quality service at a reasonable price. I also offer immediate turn around, at no additonal charge.
I charge $20 labor, whether I provide the string or not.
I'm USRSA Certified, use pro shop quality equipment (Star 5) and have probably 3k frames under my belt.
I inspect frames, clean them, tube or replace cracked grommets, etc......and rubber band a service tag to the handle showing date/frame/string/tension and my contact info.
I also keep a crap ton of over wraps on hand and replace them gratis, with any sign of ware.

Jeffy005
10-05-2010, 05:41 AM
What do you guys think so far?

http://hstrial-briansrackets.intuitwebsites.com/index.html

Lot's more to come!

KCMO ha? really... Well i live in KCMO and i have to drive all the way down to OLATHE just to get my racquet restring.... wahahah...

Your website looks really cool but those pricing are kinda outrageous....

You should also include LABOR PRICE on your site....

But hey man i would love to get my racquet restring by you, instead of driving all the way down to OLATHE.....

diredesire
10-06-2010, 10:57 AM
Most of it's been covered, I'll just echo what I found to be important:

I am sure he has paid for the rights to use Roger Federer's and Andre Agassi's pictures on his website. 'Bottle Rocket' you did pay for those picture rights didn't you? You have heard of copyright infringement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement), haven't you?

Just in case you are not aware, photographers pay for the rights to use pictures of famous people and sell those pictures to others that want to use those pictures in marketing. Now if you take a picture of Roger playing tennis and stick it on your desktop there is no problem. If you use that picture to market something it is a different story. Trust me, you do not want some lawyer sending you a letter explaining this to you.


You shouldn't be using copyrighted images on your site. You can't (in this case) even use them while crediting the source/photographer. You're making money using these images, so you need to get them licensed. You can't use these under creative commons licensing, etc.

I agree with the point on "inexpensive" above--I think you would be better off focusing on value and experience (although as to this latter point, 5 years doesn't seem that long). I think you should strongly consider getting a USRSA certification--otherwise you are just a guy who has been playing a lot less than me who thinks he knows how to string. Likewise, words like "fiddling" are not terribly persuasive to me in seeking a qualified stringer. If I am a college student looking to get my sticks done cheaply, maybe I use you--but if I really care, your site does not compel me to use you--sorry.

List your labor charge. Having two choices kind of sucks. If i were looking for a stringer, I'd like to know how much they charge if i bring my own strings. The certification suggestion is a good one if you are at all serious about making considerable money from this.


While you sound like you are being honest, your "About Me" page (if anyone ever gets there) is not going to sell for you. So many more people on this board have more qualifications than you--and in its current form, anyone who knows anything about tennis would be able to guess that. It is not written to impress. If you are a 4.5 tournament player, say that. If you have experience stringing various racquets with a variety of string types and set-ups, say that--but on another page. Keep it simple.The page (I'm sorry) sounds like a bad resume.

With a background in engineering...
NTRP 4.5 player...
Short. Simple. Don't add things on the "About Me" page to try to sell. Leave that for the main or a FAQs page. The "About Me" page should include that info, as noted above, that will make people think, "I'm dealing with an intelligent person who actually knows the sport." This is after you've explained the benefits of quality racquet stringing and so forth on the appropriate pages. That's it.

And this, as noted by others, "specialize in inexpensive racket stringing" means what? That translates into, whether you think so or not, "cheap." You sell yourself as "quality" and start off being "inexpensive." Smart "consumers" wonder why things are cheap. If your market is the person who barely knows string can be changed and it comes in more than just white, maybe they won't care so much. However, if you're talking to the person who wants his "Big Banger" with some softer synthetic than he currently uses, and he feels like the ball is flying on him, you can bet he will wonder. And your prices aren't anything special to even bother saying "inexpensive." Maybe "reasonable." For Cyber Flash, that amounts to what, about $18 for the stringing if a person were to buy his own string? That is not unheard of elsewhere, and you are just entering the market. You can't fight a battle with competitors simply by deflating the market, if that were to become the case. You'll doom yourself soon enough.
With your qualifications, as mentioned above, your prices aren't actually that cheap. I've been stringing for ~10 years now, and I've got thousands, and thousands of racquets under my belt, but I charge ~$10 labor. Could I charge more? Yep. Should I charge more? Probably. However, I've never really marketed myself as someone who is trying to string racquets (aggressively). I'm an engineer as well, and that's my primary focus and source of income, and stringing has largely been leisure/hobby for me in the past. I've never bothered to get my MRT due to this fact. I move around a lot (due to not living near my school), so keeping a reliable customer base has never been worth the overhead for me. I also keep a much more comprehensive stock of string than 2 offerings, but at the same time, I STILL often don't have what people are looking for (Gamma Livewire, Wilson NXT, etc). The overhead of stocking really popular strings (and keeping several in stock) is a big difference between you and your pro shop competitors. They've sunk thousands and thousands of dollars having what people WANT. When someone comes to you looking for Prince synthetic gut with Duraflex, an you only stock extreme, they're compromising, and taking something they don't really want. How can you deal with this?

wow, wilson syn-gut installed for $22.

You would need to drive to my house and string it on the spot for that $$$ mark-up. Just kidding-

I know shops can charge $20 labor, but they have overhead and only give the stringer about $10.

Getting certified will help your cause, but you need to drop you labor charge a bit-
Sorry, but I agree. $15 for a non certified stringer with relatively limited experience and/or low frame count (what does 5 years of experience mean if you string 10 racquets a month? I might do that in <6 months... total!) is pretty good. Most stringers starting out at my college charge ~$10, first racquet free. It depends a lot on your competition, of course, but people will come back to me because I am able to turn the frame around quickly, provide a consistent, and predictable string bed, and I've strung for ~5 years for a DI college team. I can't really be THAT bad if I'm stringing for a top 25 school, right? ;)

You should also include LABOR PRICE on your site....

But hey man i would love to get my racquet restring by you, instead of driving all the way down to OLATHE.....
Yep, include labor price. I wouldn't be contacting you because I wouldn't want cyberflash or extreme. While Cyberflash is extremely popular among us tennis/string heads, ask any average tennis player, they've NEVER heard of it.



IMHO, in the "about me" section, it should be an "about the services," what you offer over someone else. You should also have an educational page, IMHO, as to why stringing is important, and how you address this. This can be eliminated, depending on your approach, but I think the about me page is largely irrelevant.

I'd also consider improving your stock.

Lakers4Life
10-06-2010, 12:29 PM
I do agree using an image of Roger Federer is copyright infringement, but if the OP used a photo of a package of Wilson strings, with a photo of Fed on the packaging it would not.

As for price for stringing. It all depends on where you are located. Here in So Cal. the going labor rate for a Syn Gut String Job, is $10, but in the San Francisco Area it's closer to $20. I've heard in NYC is closer to $30 labor. I think the cost of labor should be what people are willing to pay for, reasonably. So if you are the only stringer for 50 miles around, you can justify $20 labor.

A majority of people looking for a stringer are recreational players. So it's a good idea to stock up on a couple reels of Syn Gut, like Gosen OGSM. I go through more reels of Gosen OGSM than any other reel of string I normally have.

Parker512
10-06-2010, 03:28 PM
I do agree using an image of Roger Federer is copyright infringement, but if the OP used a photo of a package of Wilson strings, with a photo of Fed on the packaging it would not.

As for price for stringing. It all depends on where you are located. Here in So Cal. the going labor rate for a Syn Gut String Job, is $10, but in the San Francisco Area it's closer to $20. I've heard in NYC is closer to $30 labor. I think the cost of labor should be what people are willing to pay for, reasonably. So if you are the only stringer for 50 miles around, you can justify $20 labor.

A majority of people looking for a stringer are recreational players. So it's a good idea to stock up on a couple reels of Syn Gut, like Gosen OGSM. I go through more reels of Gosen OGSM than any other reel of string I normally have.

Thats because the string hes promoteing their product.

beernutz
10-06-2010, 06:36 PM
I agree with almost all of what has been suggested (particularly about using only images for which you have secured IP rights), however I differ about the inclusion of an about me page. Perhaps your average joe blow tennis player doesn't care, but I think a significant number of potential customers would be interested in the credentials of the stringer. I know I would in any case. Just my $.02.

Radicalized
10-07-2010, 02:47 AM
Again, I can't stress this enough: Keep it simple. The customer will appreciate it when clicking around to get the information.

Without completely changing your page formatting:
For example, main page: Quality (lighting is the key) photo at your machine. They are dealing with an individual. You might as well put yourself out there. Short and direct statement about racquet stringing. Use bullet points to list your additional services. Add a link to the services and pricing immediately after.
Services and pricing page: Short description of the benefits of each service. Add a link to a FAQs page ("For more information about...") for specific answers to questions a customer may have. Create a FAQs page.
Pricing: Make it easy to read. Again, make a list or better, create a table if you know how. List the price for stringing with user-supplied string, too. You might want to have a larger inventory as others have mentioned. As you might have obvious issues with creating inventory, you might like to inquire about what to stock when at the courts and so forth. Also, you might mention that you may be able to obtain specific items with enough lead time.

Perhaps mimic a known competitor to some extent. For example, I can tell you what the big box store in my area that provides a stringing service sells, more or less, to give you an idea:
Big Banger ALU Power
Prince Synthetic Gut with Duraflex
Prince Lightning XX
Wilson Sensation
Wilson NXT
Wilson Synthetic Gut Extreme
Gamma Live Wire
Gamma TNT2
Gamma Zo Twist
Head Synthetic Gut PPS
Head FXP
…and maybe a couple of others.
This list wouldn't cover the people on this board, that is for sure. Here, people are mostly picking them off the wall at some price point. Another local store isn't much different. If I were to do what you are--and don't worry anyone, I'm not--aside from the stringing services, for most cases I'd be saving the customer a round-trip "25-40 minute" drive time, depending on the store.

FAQs page: IF a vistor wants/needs to read additional technical details, put them here where they aren't clogging up your main pages.

About: I think this is beneficial in your case. But as noted earlier, thin it out. Keep the "you" and the "sale/facts" separate. Student at UMKC. Engineering background. NTRP 4.5 player. So, that tells them, you're a local guy with intelligence, and you know the game. And if they're sure you are around, and they can contact you, there will be less trepidation with trying your service. Sell yourself well, as you really don't have much experience, and as you don't have a "name" behind you. You're a 4.5--Picture of YOU hitting the ball IF you want to fill space currently taken up by Fed! Don't be shy. The business IS you.

Ash_Smith
10-07-2010, 03:53 AM
In terms of stocking string, I keep a reel each of a good syn.gut, a good multi, and a good poly (I don't do cheap restrings!) and if a customer wants anything specific i'll order it in (usually next day if I order before 3pm). This means my outlay is lower initially and I cover most bases for the average club player but can offer everything else for people who want it.

You've made a decent start - just a few tweaks and you'll be good to go!

Ash

bee
10-07-2010, 10:42 AM
Good to know you're available. I assume you're looking for customers that will mail racquets to you, you string them and mail them back. Is that part of the business plan? I would consider using your services that way.

I think most people here are being overly critical. Not surprising. I agree you should probably take off the "inexpensive" theme.

Some of us would be more inclined to play with polys if we had an easy way of getting our racquets restrung frequently. This would be for those who can afford to have multiple racquets and spend the money for restringing frequently. Obviously, getting a stringing machine and learning to use it is an option and I am considering that.

You might want to add something about shipping and such and what the turnaround time and costs are for that.

Good luck with it. I'm sure you do a very good job.

Bee

Parker512
10-07-2010, 05:58 PM
In terms of stocking string, I keep a reel each of a good syn.gut, a good multi, and a good poly (I don't do cheap restrings!) and if a customer wants anything specific i'll order it in (usually next day if I order before 3pm). This means my outlay is lower initially and I cover most bases for the average club player but can offer everything else for people who want it.

You've made a decent start - just a few tweaks and you'll be good to go!

Ash

What specific one's if your clientel is on a budget.

sonicare
10-07-2010, 06:10 PM
Excuse my ignorance but stringing is NOT a business. If you wanna be successful in life, first go learn the difference between a business and self employment.

Ash_Smith
10-07-2010, 11:35 PM
What specific one's if your clientel is on a budget.

The three reels I always stock are all from RAB - Texflex Premium (syn.gut), SensorFibre (multi) and EnduraFlex (poly). I will occasionally back these up with some Mantis PowerPoly and Confort Synthetic.

If somebody really wants something dirt cheap, they can either bring their own or I'll order something in - usually once I have a chat and explain to people the differences in quality and therefore playability/durability people don't mind spending a bit more to get the quality.

Cheers

Ash

PimpMyGame
10-08-2010, 02:05 AM
The three reels I always stock are all from RAB - Texflex Premium (syn.gut), SensorFibre (multi) and EnduraFlex (poly). I will occasionally back these up with some Mantis PowerPoly and Confort Synthetic.

If somebody really wants something dirt cheap, they can either bring their own or I'll order something in - usually once I have a chat and explain to people the differences in quality and therefore playability/durability people don't mind spending a bit more to get the quality.

Cheers

Ash

Hey Ash - I stock TexFlex (great all-round syn gut), have used SensorFibre which I think is an excellent "comfortable" string for hybrids and have tried EnduraFlex which is ok, but I currently have EnduraEdge which is fine for a reasonable stock poly.

If you haven't tried Endura Edge ask Richard at RAB for a free set to try. I get on fine with it and a reel is fairly cheap IIRC.

Ash_Smith
10-08-2010, 03:32 AM
HI PMG - as far as i'm concerned the RAB strings are as good if not better than anything else out there and usually once I get my customers to try - they love them. For the price I pay, you can't go wrong either!

I've not tried the EnduraEdge - i'll have a chat with Adam or Richard next time I place an order and get a set to try.

Cheers

Ash

origmarm
10-08-2010, 05:03 AM
OP I only came across this thread today but one quick comment. It took me a while to work out you were in Kansas. The contact me page had a map but it wasn't clear to me for a while where on earth you were

Jeffy005
10-08-2010, 05:45 AM
Oh 1 more thing i should add......

Labor Price $15 I wish man... Instead of $20

If you make it $15 i'll definitely go to you instead of someone else....

mikeler
10-08-2010, 06:20 AM
Where did the OP go?

Jeffy005
10-09-2010, 11:26 AM
Where did the OP go?

probably just lazy to check this thread...

Bottle Rocket
12-02-2010, 01:07 PM
LOL. Ok.

A friend of mine here in KC just came across this thread and then reminded me that I had made it. He mentioned that I was getting flamed pretty hard, so here I am. I just read through it all.

I agree with most everything said. I understand the issue of copyright and all that good stuff. I promise.

I appreciate all the comments, especially those that were constructive. If I'd gotten to this thread much earlier, I would have replied to each one individually. I really do appreciate the feedbackand I regret not checking back to this thread sooner. I apologize for that.

The whole idea of inexpensive racket stringing is based purely on the prices in the area. A large tennis store, which competes directly with Tennis Warehouse, is in the area, the one "way out in Olathe". You're looking at $35 for a polyester string job at this place, $25 for the most inexpensive synthetic gut. Your also often looking at longer turn around time as well as the requirement to pick up and drop off your racket during their business hours and at their location.

A good majority of the stringers at this store are certified, but not all of them do a job which would meet my own standards. It is why I started stringing. You may be certified to weave some strings, but that says nothing of your understanding of racket dynamics and physics which directly relate to one's game, maximizing your potential, and finding a setup which can instill true confidence in your game.Or your understanding of the effects different modifactions and such really have, game related or biomechanically. I don't think my knowledge of the game is less valuable than a certification, quite the contrary, but obviously, it is only the perception of the customer that matters. So.... That's that.

I am also competing with the local clubs, the places getting the majority of the business this winter. However, if you play a club, there are few good reasons to come to me. Money and turn around time will rarely be a consideration.

So, I am less expensive than retailers and clubs. The prices I had listed are obviously expensive so far as individuals go, and I am aware of this. I've charged significantly less in the past and the majority of customers (admittadly, i'm no high-volume super business) have paid me more than I asked for. They've given me what they thought the job was worth, based on their previous experiences elsewhere. This was the basis for my prices. But yeah... I am not inexpensive, not based on those website prices.

With all that said, its not a big deal. I don't need that much money for a string job. I am not doing it to make a living, but I am also not doing it for fun. I am fair and in many cases, I am negotiable. Yeah, weird.

So, if you're in the KC area, I won't charge you what is on the website. If I am available, I'll charge you what you think is fair. I don't need $20 labor. $15 is fair to me, but if you don't think so, I'm still willing to work with you.

I lost interest in this entire thing a little while after working on the website, it is why I have no domain name yet and why there are still copyrighted pictures all over the place (many of them are not copyrighted, btw). My customer base, which dwindles down like you wouldn't believe in the winter, has come solely from word of mouth. That and my involvement on a local tennis website ( www.kctennisplayers.com ).

The process of trying to build this basic site was a fun process and I've gotten a lot out of it, I've also enjoyed reading all of your comments. I have no intention of getting rid of this website, but it may be a while before I get serious about it again and see if through. I'll obviously get some new pictures, do some redesign, and change the prices. I'll also take into consideration all of the suggestions concerning the "about me" page and the like. Simple is better. I know... The Google generation.

I've gotten distracted by tennis apps (would love to integrate this stringing dealy, tennis equipment, pickup and delivery, etc..., with a phone app) and some small little products I am trying to design. That and food and sleep. The winter here in KC is discouraging... I mostly just eat in place of court-time now. ;)

diredesire
12-02-2010, 03:24 PM
I lost interest in this entire thing a little while after working on the website, it is why I have no domain name yet and why there are still copyrighted pictures all over the place (many of them are not copyrighted, btw). My customer base, which dwindles down like you wouldn't believe in the winter, has come solely from word of mouth. That and my involvement on a local tennis website ( www.kctennisplayers.com ).


They're all copyrighted, even if the images aren't watermarked, believe it.

Sometimes it's just hard to prove copyright, but the original creator/capturer has their usage rights covered, and using these images IS a violation of that copyright, end of discussion. Like i said before, even if these are available for public usage under something like a creative commons license, it's not for use in a website used to generate revenue, as yours is.

Bottle Rocket
05-17-2011, 11:32 PM
Alright.... How about this:

http://www.briansracketstringing.com/

I got myself a domain name which is too long, but it will work for now. I've also got myself some new pictures. All legal for use on my website with no copyrights. ;)

For those of you that remember the old site, this version should be rather refreshing without all of the irritating nonsense.

Still going to work on some pages, including the About me page, probably taking much of the advice from this thread.

origmarm
05-18-2011, 12:06 AM
Looks much better. Overall a big improvement.

A few comments:

- Still took me a minute to remember you were in Kansas! I guess only people in that area will have the website address? "I live in KC on the Plaza" for example would have been enough. Or maybe "KC's home of the rubber band dampener" or similar...

- You might want to offer more than two strings in your price list. For me that's a big downside. Even if you only have one set of each in stock it's worth it I would think. So so many rec players I know ask for NXT or TNT it's ridiculous. Typically there's a "favourite" in your area.

- What's the turnaround time? Do you pickup/deliver?

- If it was me I would have someone take a picture or two of you stringing or similar to put on the "about me" page. Gives confidence.

Hope it helps

Cheers, Orig

fortun8son
05-18-2011, 12:10 AM
I agree with much of the above advice. Find another way to express the value that you give and your expertise as a stringer.
My local big box store offers PSGD@$20 and stringing labor only @$12!
I have had to find another way.
I stock reels of Sweet16, OGSM17, MCS, SPPP16L, and BHBR17 plus a few specialty strings and I tell them that MY strings are better than the strings at the store at a competitive price with a quicker turnaround and more consistent quality.
Things are tough here in Vegas!
BTW If you are THAT meticulous; spell it right! :)

fortun8son
05-18-2011, 12:21 AM
What about Racquetball in the winter?

mikeler
05-18-2011, 04:26 AM
Took a quick look, on the About Me page you may want to change the text color from black to white so that it is more readable. Good luck with your business.

eliza
05-18-2011, 04:48 AM
I am sure he has paid for the rights to use Roger Federer's and Andre Agassi's pictures on his website. 'Bottle Rocket' you did pay for those picture rights didn't you? You have heard of copyright infringement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement), haven't you?

Just in case you are not aware, photographers pay for the rights to use pictures of famous people and sell those pictures to others that want to use those pictures in marketing. Now if you take a picture of Roger playing tennis and stick it on your desktop there is no problem. If you use that picture to market something it is a different story. Trust me, you do not want some lawyer sending you a letter explaining this to you.

You know there is a reason you put Andre and Roger's pictures on your web site instead of John Dough'$ picture. Be honest with your customers and just tell the facts man nothing else.

Irvin

I was going to tell him check copyright before and ask permisssion (often if you explain you are starting they will allow use of pics and give you a release, but get everything in writing). Also check any use of trademarked/patented pics (say Babolat, Dunlop racquets, logos etc.)

max
05-18-2011, 06:27 AM
Took a quick look, on the About Me page you may want to change the text color from black to white so that it is more readable. Good luck with your business.

The text is too small, as well.

Typically, the best visual impact will be black text on a white background, using a serif typeface.

Bottle Rocket
05-18-2011, 06:42 AM
Looks much better. Overall a big improvement.

A few comments:

- Still took me a minute to remember you were in Kansas! I guess only people in that area will have the website address? "I live in KC on the Plaza" for example would have been enough. Or maybe "KC's home of the rubber band dampener" or similar...

- You might want to offer more than two strings in your price list. For me that's a big downside. Even if you only have one set of each in stock it's worth it I would think. So so many rec players I know ask for NXT or TNT it's ridiculous. Typically there's a "favourite" in your area.

- What's the turnaround time? Do you pickup/deliver?

- If it was me I would have someone take a picture or two of you stringing or similar to put on the "about me" page. Gives confidence.

Hope it helps

Cheers, Orig

I agree with all of the above and think you're right. Had some debate about the name for the business considering I am only local, but figured the upsides for leaving it open to expansion (unlikely) was advantageous compared to limiting it with some odd specialized domain name.

Thinking a small description/summary of everything might be appropriate for the front page, this might also be a good way to mention that I am in Kansas City. I'm on the Missouri side, actually.

I agree with much of the above advice. Find another way to express the value that you give and your expertise as a stringer.
My local big box store offers PSGD@$20 and stringing labor only @$12!
I have had to find another way.
I stock reels of Sweet16, OGSM17, MCS, SPPP16L, and BHBR17 plus a few specialty strings and I tell them that MY strings are better than the strings at the store at a competitive price with a quicker turnaround and more consistent quality.
Things are tough here in Vegas!
BTW If you are THAT meticulous; spell it right! :)

Hahaha... Good catch on "meticulous"... Can't believe I did that!

I've found that the majority of players here with synthetic guts are perfectly happy with Prince Synthetic Gut W/Duraflex and are familiar with Wilson and will happily go with the Wilson Extreme (which I think is better). I haven't found a single person who wasn't ok with my string selection, especially after discussion with me.

However, I agree with you. I have a massive tennis store in my area and have access to most any string, so I should probably add a note about that.

Also agree with your first comment. I will think about ways to accomplish this.

What about Racquetball in the winter?

Hmmm....

Took a quick look, on the About Me page you may want to change the text color from black to white so that it is more readable. Good luck with your business.

Done. What do you think?

I was going to tell him check copyright before and ask permisssion (often if you explain you are starting they will allow use of pics and give you a release, but get everything in writing). Also check any use of trademarked/patented pics (say Babolat, Dunlop racquets, logos etc.)

Done! See my previous post.



Thanks guys! Really appreciate the input. I've made a few changes according to the comments above and of course, there are many more to come. I've also added a Facebook "Like" button, which somehow feels like some sort of odd milestone. If you'd "Like" me on Facebook while browsing through and catching my errors and missteps, it'd be greatly appreciated. :wink:

Thinking of adding some things to the site (in addition to some other changes, which I should be focusing on), however, I really want to keep things uncluttered. I spend a good amount of time complaining about cluttered websites, so I need to control myself. Would an RSS feed showing AP Tennis results or something of the sort be too much? What about a listing of local USTA events and such? Is it a bad idea to let things wonder a bit? A page with all of those things, including weather? Or something?

mikeler
05-18-2011, 06:47 AM
Much easier to read! Also, I noticed on the Services page, that last line is a little bit difficult to read where the text says "economical route" because it is black and in the shadow of the ball. Perhaps lift all that text up slightly or consider making that white as well.

Bottle Rocket
05-18-2011, 06:52 AM
Much easier to read! Also, I noticed on the Services page, that last line is a little bit difficult to read where the text says "economical route" because it is black and in the shadow of the ball. Perhaps lift all that text up slightly or consider making that white as well.

Fixed (sort of?). Thanks!

I need some better pictures. The picture on that page has been causing me all kinds of problems. Hoping to take some pictures of my own (rubber band dampeners and strings and such, like the poor picture I have on the site's Facebook page). Currently too many tennis balls sitting around on the ground...

GlenK
05-18-2011, 06:54 AM
I would change the font to white on the services and pricing page as well. Specially the font on the red back ground.
At least see how it looks. I think white font on red back ground is more visually appealing.

Bottle Rocket
05-18-2011, 06:57 AM
I would change the font to white on the services and pricing page as well. Specially the font on the red back ground.
At least see how it looks. I think white font on red back ground is more visually appealing.

Agreed. Done. Going to try to deal with picture today so one text color works well...

mikeler
05-18-2011, 07:14 AM
I would change the font to white on the services and pricing page as well. Specially the font on the red back ground.
At least see how it looks. I think white font on red back ground is more visually appealing.


Yeah, white tends to stand out better when sitting on top of an image or color.

TenFanLA
05-18-2011, 07:16 AM
You need to change the racket pic on your home page IMMEDIATELY!!! That racket gives me (I'm sure others as well) the impression that your service, product, knowledge, etc. are way outdated, maybe something from the 90's. I don't want to use someone whose website gives me the impression that he is using a 90's stringer and Leoina 66.

Bottle Rocket
05-18-2011, 08:57 AM
You need to change the racket pic on your home page IMMEDIATELY!!! That racket gives me (I'm sure others as well) the impression that your service, product, knowledge, etc. are way outdated, maybe something from the 90's. I don't want to use someone whose website gives me the impression that he is using a 90's stringer and Leoina 66.

Hahahaha. OK... Good point. I like the picture though and I actually couldn't identify those frames, thought it was pretty generic.

I'll if there is something else to use, but this might need to wait until I can take my own pictures...

Have made a few more changes since my last post, added some better email links and made some text/background/format changes on most pages.

mikeler
05-18-2011, 09:12 AM
Home page, correct spelling: "Tennis racket tringing". I don't think you'll make much money with a "tringing" business. :)

From another string obsessed tennis playing engineer...

weksa
05-18-2011, 09:12 AM
On the home page, there's a small typo, missing an "s":

Tennis racket tringing & customization located in the heart of Kansas City

Bottle Rocket
05-18-2011, 09:18 AM
You need to change the racket pic on your home page IMMEDIATELY!!! That racket gives me (I'm sure others as well) the impression that your service, product, knowledge, etc. are way outdated, maybe something from the 90's. I don't want to use someone whose website gives me the impression that he is using a 90's stringer and Leoina 66.

Home page, correct spelling: "Tennis racket tringing". I don't think you'll make much money with a "tringing" business. :)

From another string obsessed tennis playing engineer...

:shock:

On the home page, there's a small typo, missing an "s":

Tennis racket tringing & customization located in the heart of Kansas City

Got it. Everytime I change something, I screw something up...

mikeler
05-18-2011, 09:35 AM
You are getting there. Having fresh eyes on your own work is always a good thing. It's always easier for others to catch my errors than me.

TenFanLA
05-18-2011, 09:54 AM
1. As stated before you need to put a more modern racket/string on your main page. APD GT, BLX, IG Speed, etc., something that modern players and kids can identify with.

2. You need to let the customers know that you carry all the major brands (if you don't, you need to.) Your website gives the impression that we only have 2 choices. 99.99% of non-TT players want the name brands that the pros use. They don't want no-name brand from a no-name stringer. If Big 5 or Sports Chalet started carrying Topspin, BHBR, B5E, etc., it's one thing. If you ONLY carry those, they will think you are weird. Offer them the choices of Babolats, Lux, Wilson AND more TT-oriented brands such as Topspin, Signum, Tourna, Polystar, etc. to show you have a more in depth knowledge of strings than the big store employees.

3. Why no phone number on the website? I never trust a company or a website with no phone number.

Carolina Racquet
05-19-2011, 07:15 AM
After reading through the entire post I think there's some great comments.

I would ask you the basic question "What makes you different"? After all, many consider racquet stringing somewhat of a commodity where people are focused primarily on cost and convenience.

For instance, you can be different by offering an initial consultation for every client (not customer) that will better match their playing level, style and racquet type to the right string and tension. We all know big box stores don't do that. You can also call the client a week after their stringing to see how their racquet is performing and ask for any referrals, offering $5 off their next stringing if their referral leads to a client. In short, be different and position yourself as their racquet consultant who also appreciates referrals!

Concerning the strings shown on your website, I would classify them as "Featured Strings". That helps the visitor to your website understand you offer an array of strings, but you are just highlighting the two.

Keep perfecting it... This site has great potential.

beernutz
05-19-2011, 07:30 AM
What do you guys think so far?

http://hstrial-briansrackets.intuitwebsites.com/index.html

Lot's more to come!
My comments fwiw:
Hopefully you plan to buy a domain name and forward it.
You charge the same for Wilson Extreme SG and Topspin Cyberflash but the latter is more than twice as expensive as the former isn't it?
No phone number listed to contact you?

nalvarado
05-19-2011, 09:18 AM
Ah another competitor. I believe Steve D mentioned your name to me.

mikeler
05-19-2011, 10:06 AM
Ah another competitor. I believe Steve D mentioned your name to me.


Can we see your website too? :)

pingu
05-19-2011, 06:10 PM
I don't know what kind of machine that you have, but if you had an expensive one, I think you should mention that.

Good luck with your business !

nalvarado
05-20-2011, 08:19 AM
Can we see your website too? :)

Sure, I'll have to set it up first though :P

In all seriousness I'll probably end up getting a domain and a dedicated host before the end of the summer.

Bottle Rocket
05-20-2011, 09:47 AM
1. As stated before you need to put a more modern racket/string on your main page. APD GT, BLX, IG Speed, etc., something that modern players and kids can identify with.

2. You need to let the customers know that you carry all the major brands (if you don't, you need to.) Your website gives the impression that we only have 2 choices. 99.99% of non-TT players want the name brands that the pros use. They don't want no-name brand from a no-name stringer. If Big 5 or Sports Chalet started carrying Topspin, BHBR, B5E, etc., it's one thing. If you ONLY carry those, they will think you are weird. Offer them the choices of Babolats, Lux, Wilson AND more TT-oriented brands such as Topspin, Signum, Tourna, Polystar, etc. to show you have a more in depth knowledge of strings than the big store employees.

3. Why no phone number on the website? I never trust a company or a website with no phone number.

Good points, mostly things I plan to address. Working on the picture, working on the services/inventory stuff. I don't mind giving my phone number out, though I also like the idea of users viewing the website emailing me for service. I gladly give out my number through email as well as on my business card. However, email is easy, I'll never miss it, and I want to work with guys which are easy to get ahold of by email, text, etc... With that said, I mostly agree.

I intend on getting a new business phone number using Google voice integration, so this is in the works and will be taken care of. I am wanting to keep all contact and interactions related to stringing seperate from the rest of me.

After reading through the entire post I think there's some great comments.

I would ask you the basic question "What makes you different"? After all, many consider racquet stringing somewhat of a commodity where people are focused primarily on cost and convenience.

For instance, you can be different by offering an initial consultation for every client (not customer) that will better match their playing level, style and racquet type to the right string and tension. We all know big box stores don't do that. You can also call the client a week after their stringing to see how their racquet is performing and ask for any referrals, offering $5 off their next stringing if their referral leads to a client. In short, be different and position yourself as their racquet consultant who also appreciates referrals!

Concerning the strings shown on your website, I would classify them as "Featured Strings". That helps the visitor to your website understand you offer an array of strings, but you are just highlighting the two.

Keep perfecting it... This site has great potential.

All really good points and good ideas. Thanks!

My comments fwiw:
Hopefully you plan to buy a domain name and forward it.
You charge the same for Wilson Extreme SG and Topspin Cyberflash but the latter is more than twice as expensive as the former isn't it?
No phone number listed to contact you?

I use string reels. Cyber Flash costs very slightly more than the synthetic gut. I'm having a hard time getting pricing figured out, though its really nice and simple to continually tell people $20. I've been throwing in free overgrips, headguard installation, and other things as well for $20, I guess I'm actually sort of negotiable... Going to deal with this soon. ;)

Ah another competitor. I believe Steve D mentioned your name to me.

Hmm... I thought all users from Kansas City were blocked from this thread. :wink:

Just kidding. I don't think I string nearly as many frames as Steve does. Where do you do your stringing? Do you work with teams and such as he does?

If you're in a different area of the city, I'd be happy to refer players to you if their much closer to you than me.

Can we see your website too? :)

:-P

I don't know what kind of machine that you have, but if you had an expensive one, I think you should mention that.

Good luck with your business !

Agreed. Thanks!

nalvarado
05-20-2011, 12:33 PM
Haha I'm actually a player out at winnetonka, I string for my team as well as anyone around who's keen enough to text me:P I'm located right by liberty, pleasant valley to be exact.

b0mb34man
05-21-2011, 12:25 PM
It's funny, I saw this exact ad on craigslist when I wad looking to buy tennis strings and stringing machines! Maybe should do a gathering to hit a bit :)

nalvarado
05-21-2011, 07:25 PM
If I'm not mistaken bottle used to be a member of a kansas city tennis forum. The name eludes me but I believe they used to get together on a regular basis.


EDIT: http://www.kctennisplayers.com was the site. I knew I remembered your site from somewhere bottlerocket.

Bottle Rocket
05-21-2011, 09:32 PM
If I'm not mistaken bottle used to be a member of a kansas city tennis forum. The name eludes me but I believe they used to get together on a regular basis.


EDIT: http://www.kctennisplayers.com was the site. I knew I remembered your site from somewhere bottlerocket.

You found me!!

On the "contact me" page I have a specific mention of the kctennisplayers.com website, which has been there since the beginning. I contribute as much as I can to the kctennisplayers website, trying to get others involved and get the word out about our group of guys which frequent the public courts. Most guys heavily involved with USTA in Kansas City know me pretty well (or have run into me in tournaments), but I'm easy to find on the public courts of KC.

COPEY
05-22-2011, 03:34 AM
I use string reels. Cyber Flash costs very slightly more than the synthetic gut. I'm having a hard time getting pricing figured out, though its really nice and simple to continually tell people $20. I've been throwing in free overgrips, headguard installation, and other things as well for $20, I guess I'm actually sort of negotiable... Going to deal with this soon. ;)


Something to consider that will make things more simplistic is to price all string according to what it cost per set. I haven't backtracked through this thread to see if you're marking up the price of your string (doesn't sound like you are), but if not, using reels often time affords you a small savings (as you probably know) compared to using sets. Instead of passing that savings on to your customers, keep it. I for one don't think it's underhanded or unethical, and in my opinion it's a better option than marking up the price of string.

nalvarado
05-22-2011, 07:59 AM
You found me!!

On the "contact me" page I have a specific mention of the kctennisplayers.com website, which has been there since the beginning. I contribute as much as I can to the kctennisplayers website, trying to get others involved and get the word out about our group of guys which frequent the public courts. Most guys heavily involved with USTA in Kansas City know me pretty well (or have run into me in tournaments), but I'm easy to find on the public courts of KC.

When my elbow heals up I'll have to swing by your courts for a hit :P

b0mb34man
05-22-2011, 10:20 AM
When my elbow heals up I'll have to swing by your courts for a hit :P

Same :( I'm down with TE recently from trying so many different strings...

mikeler
05-22-2011, 11:26 AM
Same :( I'm down with TE recently from trying so many different strings...


Stop trying new strings and throw some Mantis Comfort Synthetic into your racket until your arm gets better. Good luck!

b0mb34man
05-22-2011, 02:51 PM
I stopped using synthetic bc I break them too fast lol...

Bottle Rocket
05-22-2011, 05:52 PM
Something to consider that will make things more simplistic is to price all string according to what it cost per set. I haven't backtracked through this thread to see if you're marking up the price of your string (doesn't sound like you are), but if not, using reels often time affords you a small savings (as you probably know) compared to using sets. Instead of passing that savings on to your customers, keep it. I for one don't think it's underhanded or unethical, and in my opinion it's a better option than marking up the price of string.

Yep. I agree with you. I'm still a little bit unsure about pricing, though there are some very interesting threads about it here in this forum and also within this thread. The Cyber Flash should cost a little bit more and its possible the synthetic gut should cost a little bit less.

I get the feeling that many of the guys I currently string for would be happy with a very inexpensive string like Gosen OG Micro, especially if they could get a completed string job from me for $15, which is a real possibility with that string. Lot's of things to consider.

I really like $20 across the board currently as it keeps things simple, though its not great marketing, and its not necessarily fair depending on your string choice.

When my elbow heals up I'll have to swing by your courts for a hit :P

I'm currently in physical therapy for my back, so I'm taking a little bit of time off myself. Though, regardless of my condition, I'll be playing the huge Plaza tourney the second week of June. You should definitely drop by sometime though.

Same :( I'm down with TE recently from trying so many different strings...

Looking to try a few more? :-P

b0mb34man
05-22-2011, 07:41 PM
No it's ok lol... My arm is gonna break in half if I keep switching! I barely make it through each day playing tennis lol

COPEY
05-22-2011, 07:44 PM
I really like $20 across the board currently as it keeps things simple, though its not great marketing, and its not necessarily fair depending on your string choice.


I think if you consider your stringing endeavors (now or in the future) a serious and legit business, you'll want to consider pricing that people can "put their finger on". Sometimes it's not what you charge, but rather that people can clearly see and understand what they're paying for. I string for quite a few people, but I have absolutely no plans of making it a business; it's just something to support my string habit. On my business card I state that my fee for labor is $10, and that I don't mark up the price of string. I sometimes have more business than I know what to do with because people can clearly see what my prices are, they understand that they're getting a quality string job, AND I'm a heck of a lot more convenient and cheaper than the pro shop 30 mins away.

Finally, yes, $20 across the board is simple, but so is a clearly defined labor fee and charging by the set, rounding off where necessary.

fortun8son
05-22-2011, 07:46 PM
Cyberflash is not a substitute for synthetic gut. Save it for your hard hitters.

Bottle Rocket
05-22-2011, 09:17 PM
I think if you consider your stringing endeavors (now or in the future) a serious and legit business, you'll want to consider pricing that people can "put their finger on". Sometimes it's not what you charge, but rather that people can clearly see and understand what they're paying for. I string for quite a few people, but I have absolutely no plans of making it a business; it's just something to support my string habit. On my business card I state that my fee for labor is $10, and that I don't mark up the price of string. I sometimes have more business than I know what to do with because people can clearly see what my prices are, they understand that they're getting a quality string job, AND I'm a heck of a lot more convenient and cheaper than the pro shop 30 mins away.

Finally, yes, $20 across the board is simple, but so is a clearly defined labor fee and charging by the set, rounding off where necessary.

I do agree with most of what you're saying. I've always had about $15 in mind for my labor. Using reels, the cost of string is between $3.50 and $8 most of the time, so that's where the $20 comes from.

More than that, I just believe my labor is worth $15, especially when I'm getting rackets back the same day or at the tournament the next morning. It's not worth it for me to do a one-time string job for $10 using two packages of string for a hybrid.

I've gladly told people about other stringers which will be a few dollars cheaper than I, guys that want nothing but the cheapest string job possible. I'm ok with this right now. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I'd prefer to string for those looking for a stringer as careful and knowledgeable as I am and are willing to shell out a few extra dollars for that piece of mind. Of course, I need to find a better way to prove to complete strangers that I'm not a goof-ball. Currently working on this. :wink:

I want to be distinguished by the quality and consistency of my string jobs and the time and care given to each. I don't intend on being the cheapest around, but I do intend on putting out the highest quality string job for less than every pro shop, club, and big box store. And I am still significantly less than such places. A quality polyester string job for $20 is a good deal, I am sure of it. And of course, the free rubber band dampener with each string job... :-P

I may drop down to $17 or $18 for the synthetic gut. I'm also considering a business card with some time rows of rackets to initial or something... Free string job with every 5 or with every 10. I've always been a big fan of those types of things...

There's a good chance I will make some changes and be very clear about my baseline labor price, probably $15, even though I recall being called all kinds of names for this much earlier in this thread. I'll have to go back and check. :oops:

For what's it worth, and it's possible I've never stated this in this thread, but I also don't intend on turning this into a large business, though I've kept the option open. It's just something I want to do, this website thing. It's been a fantastic learning experience. I have no intentions of making a living off of this. If it pays for my own strings, shoes, and a portion of my physical therapy sessions so I can play again, I'm happy. :)

mikeler
05-23-2011, 04:57 AM
As a customer, I always preferred a base labor rate plus strings. I don't like when the stringers tried to make a few extra dollars by marking up the strings too. Keeping things simple for you could make your potential customers leery of that extra markup. Just my 2 cents, good thread!

COPEY
05-23-2011, 05:52 AM
I do agree with most of what you're saying. (1) I've always had about $15 in mind for my labor. Using reels, the cost of string is between $3.50 and $8 most of the time, so that's where the $20 comes from.

(2) More than that, I just believe my labor is worth $15, especially when I'm getting rackets back the same day or at the tournament the next morning. It's not worth it for me to do a one-time string job for $10 using two packages of string for a hybrid.

I've gladly told people about other stringers which will be a few dollars cheaper than I, guys that want nothing but the(3) cheapest string job possible. I'm ok with this right now. Maybe I'm an idiot, but (3a)I'd prefer to string for those looking for a stringer as careful and knowledgeable as I am and are willing to shell out a few extra dollars for that piece of mind. Of course, I need to find a better way to prove to complete strangers that I'm not a goof-ball. Currently working on this.

(4) I want to be distinguished by the quality and consistency of my string jobs and the time and care given to each. I don't intend on being the cheapest around, but I do intend on putting out the highest quality string job for less than every pro shop, club, and big box store. And I am still significantly less than such places. (5) A quality polyester string job for $20 is a good deal, I am sure of it. And of course, the free rubber band dampener with each string job...

I may drop down to $17 or $18 for the synthetic gut. I'm also considering a business card with some time rows of rackets to initial or something... Free string job with every 5 or with every 10. I've always been a big fan of those types of things...

There's a good chance I will make some changes and be very clear about my baseline labor price, probably $15, even though I recall being called all kinds of names for this much earlier in this thread. I'll have to go back and check.

For what's it worth, and it's possible I've never stated this in this thread, but I also don't intend on turning this into a large business, though I've kept the option open. It's just something I want to do, this website thing. It's been a fantastic learning experience. I have no intentions of making a living off of this. If it pays for my own strings, shoes, and a portion of my physical therapy sessions so I can play again, I'm happy.

Understood, and believe me, I'm not trying to convince you to change how you're currently doing things--I just figured I'd throw in my thoughts since it appeared as though you were still trying to figure things out. I'm not saying my way is right either; it's just what works for me. You'll undoubtedly figure out what works for you as you proceed.

A few comments, however...

(1) That's a very common and reasonable rate for labor. Some places charge as much as $20, which, of course, has a lot to do with your location.

(2) I hear ya. I absolutely know my labor is worth more than $10. I settled on $10 because I string for a number of high school/college kids, and most are paying for their own strings. That rationale, coupled with not marking up strings gives them a really affordable string job, and the money I earn has paid for my Apex 2, more strings than I possibly know what to do with, and a variety of other little non-necessities. I also educate people about the frequency at which they should restring. More often than not, players leave their strings in far too long (both syn and poly), and with my prices they're more than willing to string more frequently because of the low cost. Could I make more money? Definitely, but for me it was never about that.

(3/3a) Probably not intentional, but what those two statements say to me is that the guy/girl whose rates are cheaper is not going to be as good as you are, so if your customers pay a few bucks more, they'll get better workmanship for their money. Using that rationale, the same can be said about you compared to big box stores and pro shops, correct? Just playing devil's advocate. The point is inexpensive is not necessarily synonymous with poor workmanship/quality, as I'm sure you know.

(4) This statement pretty much emphasizes the previous point. How much you charge is immaterial to your quality of work and customer service. I'm not sure of your age, but if you've been around for any length of time, you've undoubtedly encountered a situation or two where you've paid less for an item/service and were more satisfied than the supposed higher priced item/service.

(5) Vague and subjective - one man's quality polyester is another man's garbage. In the string section you'll see guys talking about Gosen Polylon--how they love it, feels great, has decent tension maintenance, etc. To them it's an inexpensive, "quality" poly. It's about $1.88 per string job, yet if you strung it up for a customer who did the math, what do you tell them when they ask why they're paying $20 when according to their calculations they should pay $17? I'm the kind of guy who always wants to know exactly what I'm paying for. Some people aren't like that, I know, but some are. If you say, "hey, I simply charge a flat rate of $5 regardless of string type", and they're ok with that, cool. Obviously that's been the case thus far since I get the impression you have repeat customers.

On the other hand, if you're stringing up Lux M2 Plus and you're charging $20, then you'll probably have people lined up in front of your door lol. But what about the guy that says, "um, ok...how about if I just bring you a reel of Polylon and have you string it up for me, that way it's cheaper for me?" If you agree to it, you're setting a precedent to do it for others, then you end up managing other people's string. I've had people wanting me to do that as well, thinking they'd come out cheaper.

Anyway, again, I'm not trying to convince you to do anything differently than what you're doing, partner. I just figured I'd throw a few thoughts at ya, and you can take some (or none) of the input and use it as you see fit. ;-)

Bottle Rocket
06-09-2011, 04:48 PM
(1) That's a very common and reasonable rate for labor. Some places charge as much as $20, which, of course, has a lot to do with your location.


:)


(2) I hear ya. I absolutely know my labor is worth more than $10. I settled on $10 because I string for a number of high school/college kids, and most are paying for their own strings. That rationale, coupled with not marking up strings gives them a really affordable string job, and the money I earn has paid for my Apex 2, more strings than I possibly know what to do with, and a variety of other little non-necessities. I also educate people about the frequency at which they should restring. More often than not, players leave their strings in far too long (both syn and poly), and with my prices they're more than willing to string more frequently because of the low cost. Could I make more money? Definitely, but for me it was never about that.


That all makes perfectly good sense and I do understand. I'd gladly help a younger guy out, especially a high school student, though I have yet to tap into that market... I'm strongly considering doing a punch card type deal where you get a free stringing after 5 or so, which would provide a discount for those stringing more often.


(3/3a) Probably not intentional, but what those two statements say to me is that the guy/girl whose rates are cheaper is not going to be as good as you are, so if your customers pay a few bucks more, they'll get better workmanship for their money. Using that rationale, the same can be said about you compared to big box stores and pro shops, correct? Just playing devil's advocate. The point is inexpensive is not necessarily synonymous with poor workmanship/quality, as I'm sure you know.


That's also all true. I would never say something like that on my website or to customers. Only to you guys. :wink:


(4) This statement pretty much emphasizes the previous point. How much you charge is immaterial to your quality of work and customer service. I'm not sure of your age, but if you've been around for any length of time, you've undoubtedly encountered a situation or two where you've paid less for an item/service and were more satisfied than the supposed higher priced item/service.


Perceptions is important. If someone is used to paying $35 for polyester and I ask $15, there are going to be questions. Probably questions now, as my pricing is still a little odd.

There are analogous situations with new cars as well as electronics, especially this new market of tablets. If anyone asks less for a tablet than Apple asks for the iPad, consumer will ask "why so cheap?". There's some subconscious super-interesting brain stuff going on there. :wink:

With that said, the majority of customers I've gotten are generally unfamiliar with typical costs, but feel they are getting a good deal from me (maybe that's because I keep throwing in overgrips for some reason). And I believe they are.


(5) Vague and subjective - one man's quality polyester is another man's garbage. In the string section you'll see guys talking about Gosen Polylon--how they love it, feels great, has decent tension maintenance, etc. To them it's an inexpensive, "quality" poly. It's about $1.88 per string job, yet if you strung it up for a customer who did the math, what do you tell them when they ask why they're paying $20 when according to their calculations they should pay $17? I'm the kind of guy who always wants to know exactly what I'm paying for. Some people aren't like that, I know, but some are. If you say, "hey, I simply charge a flat rate of $5 regardless of string type", and they're ok with that, cool. Obviously that's been the case thus far since I get the impression you have repeat customers.


On the other hand, if you're stringing up Lux M2 Plus and you're charging $20, then you'll probably have people lined up in front of your door lol. But what about the guy that says, "um, ok...how about if I just bring you a reel of Polylon and have you string it up for me, that way it's cheaper for me?" If you agree to it, you're setting a precedent to do it for others, then you end up managing other people's string. I've had people wanting me to do that as well, thinking they'd come out cheaper.


I agree, it might be appropriate to define the cost of string. Possibly a flat rate because I buy in "bulk" would be acceptable. I'm still thinking about a good way to do this on the website. Really want to keep things simple.

However, I haven't found that many of the new customers who have found me with a google search have heard of any of the strings discussed on this website. If I walk into the tennis superstore 25 miles from my home, the owner there hasn't even heard of most of these strings. Most know of polyesters, possibly Luxilon, and they know brands like Wilson and Prince. I feel like I've got the majority of the market covered. Most pro's don't even know any of these things. I have had a few that were skeptical of my choices and I offered to buy them a new set of string of their choice and string it up for them if they were unhappy with my recommendation, everyone (hope nobody is getting the idea that I have a huge base of customers, because that isn't the case) so far has been very happy and wanted the same thing again.


Anyway, again, I'm not trying to convince you to do anything differently than what you're doing, partner. I just figured I'd throw a few thoughts at ya, and you can take some (or none) of the input and use it as you see fit. ;-)

I really appreciate it! Really. Thank you. And everyone else previously!

Tennusdude
11-30-2012, 04:10 AM
I am sure he has paid for the rights to use Roger Federer's and Andre Agassi's pictures on his website. 'Bottle Rocket' you did pay for those picture rights didn't you? You have heard of copyright infringement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement), haven't you?

Just in case you are not aware, photographers pay for the rights to use pictures of famous people and sell those pictures to others that want to use those pictures in marketing. Now if you take a picture of Roger playing tennis and stick it on your desktop there is no problem. If you use that picture to market something it is a different story. Trust me, you do not want some lawyer sending you a letter explaining this to you.

You know there is a reason you put Andre and Roger's pictures on your web site instead of John Dough'$ picture. Be honest with your customers and just tell the facts man nothing else.

Irvin

Hey Irvin, do you have your own stringing business or do you work for a company? If you have your own stringing business, do your customers bring you their rackets at your home? I appreciate you advice on this. I was meeting my customers at a public tennis court and now I was told that I have to meet them outside the park. Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Irvin
11-30-2012, 04:38 AM
I don't string nearly as much as I used to string. I string out of my home and rackets are brought to me.

Tennusdude
11-30-2012, 09:43 AM
I don't string nearly as much as I used to string. I string out of my home and rackets are brought to me.

At this point I am only doing one racket per day And 90 percent of these racket are from friends I play tennis with. Can actually stop me from stringing my friends rackets?

diredesire
11-30-2012, 09:52 AM
At this point I am only doing one racket per day And 90 percent of these racket are from friends I play tennis with. Can actually stop me from stringing my friends rackets?

What is your question? If you can legally solicit services on publicly owned property? :confused::confused:

Irvin
11-30-2012, 10:40 AM
I have no idea of what the real circumstances actually are. But let's look at it this way. Say I wanted to sell my truck and I went over the the used truck lot of a dealership near me and started propositioning their customers. What do you think would happen? How would you like it if you were the owner of the dealership?

If someone gave me a racket to string I would string it but I would never ask.

Lakers4Life
11-30-2012, 12:10 PM
What is your question? If you can legally solicit services on publicly owned property? :confused::confused:

ROLFMAO!

I drop off and pick up rackets all the time at public courts. Mainly for people I play with. Most other clients drop off rackets at my house. I know the owners of the local tennis shops in my area, and most of my clients buy string from them to have me string on their rackets. They know I string, but don't seem to mind, I don't poach clients from their shops, in fact I send customers to their shops for rackets.

@Irvin, The owner of the dealership would like be mad at you, but there is really nothing he can do about it, especially for one used truck. If you had a lot full of used trucks, then there would be an issue.

struggle
11-30-2012, 01:14 PM
Hey Irvin, do you have your own stringing business or do you work for a company? If you have your own stringing business, do your customers bring you their rackets at your home? I appreciate you advice on this. I was meeting my customers at a public tennis court and now I was told that I have to meet them outside the park. Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Told by whom? Does the park offer stringing services?

Most don't, but we have one here that does. I don't solicit, but do happily take friends rackets at said park for stringing if they ask.

Heck, some people teach lessons at our public parks, no permits etc, as far as i know. I'm sure it's not technically legal, but it fills a need/niche nonetheless.


edit: maybe string for free and accept "donations".

Lakers4Life
11-30-2012, 01:31 PM
Told by whom? Does the park offer stringing services?

Most don't, but we have one here that does. I don't solicit, but do happily take friends rackets at said park for stringing if they ask.

Heck, some people teach lessons at our public parks, no permits etc, as far as i know. I'm sure it's not technically legal, but it fills a need/niche nonetheless.


edit: maybe string for free and accept "donations".

I see tennis instructors all the time at public courts. Some have contracts with the city to exclusively use the courts, others don't. Most cities have posted rules about court usage, usually because there is a problem with people using courts longer than they are allowed.

Tennusdude
11-30-2012, 02:59 PM
I have no idea of what the real circumstances actually are. But let's look at it this way. Say I wanted to sell my truck and I went over the the used truck lot of a dealership near me and started propositioning their customers. What do you think would happen? How would you like it if you were the owner of the dealership?

If someone gave me a racket to string I would string it but I would never ask.

I play tennis with almost all of the people I string for and I have known them for years. Some for 20 years. These people never would have their racket strung at the park because the park has terrible service. They string the racket when they get around to it and it is strung on a an old machine that has barely functioning clamps. The machine belongs to a guy that I string rackets for. He doesnt even want his racket strung on that machine because it doesnt function properly and the string jobs are very loose because of the clamps. The only machine the city actually has is about 30 years old and does not function. One thing is for sure. I was foolish to take money in front of people because people are jealous even though I make less than money than 99 per cent of the people who play there. I lost my job of 30 years two years ago because of chronic pain while sitting. I used to drive a bus for the state of NJ but could not sit anymore without bad pain. There is another few guys who string rackets down at the courts but so far nobody has bothered them. They think I am getting rich but i can barely afford to buy gasoline to drive my car. I should offer free string jobs if people bring me the string, but you know the old saying, ? You cant beat City Hall. I guess I will have to meet the people outside the park. Thanks for all of your advice

Tennusdude
11-30-2012, 03:01 PM
What is your question? If you can legally solicit services on publicly owned property? :confused::confused:

Diredesire, are you a lawyer? If so I let you know what my question is. lol

mad dog1
11-30-2012, 03:46 PM
getting rich stringing racquets? that's an oxymoron if i've ever heard of one.

Lakers4Life
11-30-2012, 04:08 PM
getting rich stringing racquets? that's an oxymoron if i've ever heard of one.

I've said the same thing before. Even guy's with shops are struggling. I know a couple of MRTs with a Baiardo trying to make a living. I told them straight up, you picked the wrong business to be in, if you wanted to be rich. Maybe if it were a larger tennis club with deep pocket clients, but that's not going to happen.

A decent stringer with a few regular clients may make a couple hundred a month, but that's about it and seasonal.

mikeler
11-30-2012, 04:14 PM
Diredesire, are you a lawyer? If so I let you know what my question is. lol

No I believe he is an engineer, smarter than lawyers but not as well paid. Only in America...

zapvor
11-30-2012, 05:05 PM
At this point I am only doing one racket per day And 90 percent of these racket are from friends I play tennis with. Can actually stop me from stringing my friends rackets?

one a day? i think you are fine man

zapvor
11-30-2012, 05:06 PM
getting rich stringing racquets? that's an oxymoron if i've ever heard of one.

I've said the same thing before. Even guy's with shops are struggling. I know a couple of MRTs with a Baiardo trying to make a living. I told them straight up, you picked the wrong business to be in, if you wanted to be rich. Maybe if it were a larger tennis club with deep pocket clients, but that's not going to happen.

A decent stringer with a few regular clients may make a couple hundred a month, but that's about it and seasonal.

yep yep 100%. stringers dont come close to being rich. crap i need a new job:(

diredesire
11-30-2012, 08:18 PM
No I believe he is an engineer, smarter than lawyers but not as well paid. Only in America...

Well, considering the job market atm, I'd say the average post grad engineering student is probably making more than the average lawyer :twisted: (factor in those who can't find jobs).

Yes, I'm an Electrical Engineer working at a big big company :)

zapvor
11-30-2012, 09:12 PM
hahaha so true. wish i was an engineer

mikeler
12-01-2012, 04:39 AM
Well, considering the job market atm, I'd say the average post grad engineering student is probably making more than the average lawyer :twisted: (factor in those who can't find jobs).

Yes, I'm an Electrical Engineer working at a big big company :)

I'm thinking more about the local ambulance chasers who live in big mansions.

db10s
12-01-2012, 06:03 AM
I'm more of the lawyer type myself; but I can't stand the personal injury firms that blast repetitive ads on TV.

pvaudio
12-01-2012, 06:58 AM
Well, considering the job market atm, I'd say the average post grad engineering student is probably making more than the average lawyer :twisted: (factor in those who can't find jobs).

Yes, I'm an Electrical Engineer working at a big big company :)
:twisted: I like the sound of that. Except my two best friends are lawyers and m sister is a doctor :(

struggle
12-01-2012, 11:05 AM
No I believe he is an engineer, smarter than lawyers but not as well paid. Only in America...

having worked with engineers alot, this has to be the biggest falsehood in this thread. what works on paper often does not work in the field/practice, but you can't tell an engineer that because most have never tried to actually apply their voodoo. most don't know which end of a screwdriver to hold.

not speaking for diredesire or ALL engineers, just speaking from experience.

zapvor
12-01-2012, 11:20 AM
really? most engineers i know are pretty good at what they do. they may not know about screwdrivers, but they can calculate the torque range for a screwdriver tool for when you are changing your flat

diredesire
12-01-2012, 11:37 AM
having worked with engineers alot, this has to be the biggest falsehood in this thread. what works on paper often does not work in the field/practice, but you can't tell an engineer that because most have never tried to actually apply their voodoo. most don't know which end of a screwdriver to hold.

not speaking for diredesire or ALL engineers, just speaking from experience.

really? most engineers i know are pretty good at what they do. they may not know about screwdrivers, but they can calculate the torque range for a screwdriver tool for when you are changing your flat

Eh, there are people who are good at math/science so they fit the engineering 'stereotype,' but as tbuggle said, the book smarts don't always translate into the practical smarts. The people who did best in my engineering classes were classically smart, but tended to fail in the lab when things didn't go according to plan. You've gotta have a balance of both, IMO. We're way off topic though :oops:

fortun8son
12-01-2012, 12:00 PM
Off topic? The OP dropped out of this thread a year and a half ago. :)
I wonder how he's doing?

Lakers4Life
12-01-2012, 12:18 PM
Off topic? The OP dropped out of this thread a year and a half ago. :)
I wonder how he's doing?

Blame tennisdude for resurrecting the thread.

Eh, there are people who are good at math/science so they fit the engineering 'stereotype,' but as tbuggle said, the book smarts don't always translate into the practical smarts. The people who did best in my engineering classes were classically smart, but tended to fail in the lab when things didn't go according to plan. You've gotta have a balance of both, IMO. We're way off topic though :oops:

I totally agree. There are engineers that can't fix thier own cars.

mikeler
12-01-2012, 12:41 PM
For some reason, people have the impression engineers can fix everything from cars to airplanes to the national debt. We are trained in very specific disciplines. In my field, we design projects and go out to bid where a General Contractor handles construction (and all other hands on type stuff).

mad dog1
12-01-2012, 12:52 PM
really? most engineers i know are pretty good at what they do. they may not know about screwdrivers, but they can calculate the torque range for a screwdriver tool for when you are changing your flat

staying off topic...

uh...you don't need an engineer for something as basic as that. :confused: that's what a torque wrench is for. a torque wrench is easily purchased at a store that sells tools. ;)

zapvor
12-01-2012, 02:34 PM
staying off topic...

uh...you don't need an engineer for something as basic as that. :confused: that's what a torque wrench is for. a torque wrench is easily purchased at a store that sells tools. ;)

lol who do you think designed that torque wrench? a monkey?

Tennusdude
12-01-2012, 03:22 PM
Well Shakespeare put a line in one of his plays, "The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers."

As far as the engineers, they operate like Micky D's. What they build kills you 50-70 years later when it collapses. You cant really prove its their fault.

Just like Mc donalds hamburgers, who can prove it was the hamburgers that gave you a heart attack or colon cancer. Could have been the broccoil

mikeler
12-01-2012, 03:26 PM
Well Shakespeare put a line in one of his plays, "The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers."

As far as the engineers, they operate like Micky D's. What they build kills you 50-70 years later when it collapses. You cant really prove its their fault.

Just like Mc donalds hamburgers, who can prove it was the hamburgers that gave you a heart attack or colon cancer. Could have been the broccoil

In 50 years "it" should be replaced.

db10s
12-01-2012, 03:29 PM
having worked with engineers alot, this has to be the biggest falsehood in this thread. what works on paper often does not work in the field/practice, but you can't tell an engineer that because most have never tried to actually apply their voodoo. most don't know which end of a screwdriver to hold.

not speaking for diredesire or ALL engineers, just speaking from experience.

I agree with this, to me they SEEM to be quite stubborn.

zapvor
12-01-2012, 03:39 PM
yea things arent engineered to last forever

mad dog1
12-01-2012, 03:57 PM
yea things arent engineered to last forever

What about the pyramids in egypt, the great wall in china and stonehenge?

zapvor
12-01-2012, 05:08 PM
What about the pyramids in egypt, the great wall in china and stonehenge?

i think the monkeys worked on those

db10s
12-01-2012, 05:46 PM
i think the monkeys worked on those

Well...... It looks like we need to break into the zoo, who's willing to be an accessory to the crime? Because I'm totally NOT the lawyer type.... :twisted:

pvaudio
12-01-2012, 05:59 PM
Well Shakespeare put a line in one of his plays, "The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers."

As far as the engineers, they operate like Micky D's. What they build kills you 50-70 years later when it collapses. You cant really prove its their fault.

Just like Mc donalds hamburgers, who can prove it was the hamburgers that gave you a heart attack or colon cancer. Could have been the broccoil
So, how many 50-70 year cycles have you been around to come about this theory? Who would you suggest design bridges and buildings then, pharmacists? Any design is only as good as the knowledge and materials available at the time. This is why there is classically a rift between architects and engineers. The architect wants to design something, but the engineers hired must ensure that it is feasible and can be made with what's available at the time. Even Da Vinci knew this which is why although many, many of his designs have now been built and verified to work with modern materials, they would have failed using what was around at the time. Frank Lloyd Wright, one of the most brilliant architects to have lived, pushed the boundaries of engineering. He was not an idiot, and he knew that the majority of his designs wouldn't work. Even his most famous, Fallingwater, had to be restored because it was literally collapsing. Had it been built today, however, it would not have been. It was in fact built about 70 years ago when the structural engineering knowledge to make everything work was not yet known, and was only restored to his specs starting in the 90s. I'm not even defending engineers since I know so many idiots with engineering degrees who can only pass exams and don't know how to put theory into practice. It is simply asinine to say that the building you're sitting there typing in is going to kill someone in 50 years.

zapvor
12-01-2012, 06:25 PM
Well...... It looks like we need to break into the zoo, who's willing to be an accessory to the crime? Because I'm totally NOT the lawyer type.... :twisted:

maybe those monkeys know how to use torque wrenches too

Tennusdude
12-01-2012, 07:04 PM
So, how many 50-70 year cycles have you been around to come about this theory? Who would you suggest design bridges and buildings then, pharmacists? Any design is only as good as the knowledge and materials available at the time. This is why there is classically a rift between architects and engineers. The architect wants to design something, but the engineers hired must ensure that it is feasible and can be made with what's available at the time. Even Da Vinci knew this which is why although many, many of his designs have now been built and verified to work with modern materials, they would have failed using what was around at the time. Frank Lloyd Wright, one of the most brilliant architects to have lived, pushed the boundaries of engineering. He was not an idiot, and he knew that the majority of his designs wouldn't work. Even his most famous, Fallingwater, had to be restored because it was literally collapsing. Had it been built today, however, it would not have been. It was in fact built about 70 years ago when the structural engineering knowledge to make everything work was not yet known, and was only restored to his specs starting in the 90s. I'm not even defending engineers since I know so many idiots with engineering degrees who can only pass exams and don't know how to put theory into practice. It is simply asinine to say that the building you're sitting there typing in is going to kill someone in 50 years.

The quotation "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." comes from Shakespeare's Hamlet, Act III, scene II, where it is spoken by Queen Gertrude, Hamlet's mother. The phrase has come to mean that one can "insist so passionately about something not being true that people suspect the opposite of what one is saying."[1] The phrase is often misquoted as "Methinks the lady doth protest too much"[2] and is commonly used in the second person as "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

Furthermore, the above meaning is based on a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "protest" as it was used in Shakespeare's day, as the "protest" of the lady is not a protest in the modern sense of the word, but an affirmation or avowal.[3]

The phrase's actual meaning implies the increasing likelihood of suppressed feelings for the contrary of that which is being argued. I.e., the more passionate and fervent the argument, the greater likelihood the cause is a suppression of belief for the contrary argument, and the subsequent confirmation that it is the (actual) truer statement.

The phrase is used frequently today. For example, a 2000 episode of the television program Moesha was titled "He Doth Protest Too Much". An unaired episode of the television program Out of Practice was titled "The Lady Doth Protest Too Much". Andrew Klavan wrote an article for the Los Angeles Times in 2006 called "Clinton Doth Protest Too Much."[4] Alanis Morissette wrote a song named "Doth I Protest Too Much", for her album So-Called Chaos. In Venus in Fur, the Tony Award nominated play by David Ives, the mysterious Vanda proclaims "Methinks the lady doth protest too much!" as she pries for information regarding Thomas' defensiveness about his sexual past. In the recent block buster The Iron Lady documenting the life of British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher an opposition MP uses the phrase "Me thinks the lady doth screech to loud," reflecting anti feminist tendencies in the House of Commons in the 1970s.

db10s
12-01-2012, 07:19 PM
maybe those monkeys know how to use torque wrenches too

DUH! They made them...

zapvor
12-01-2012, 08:14 PM
lol all our posts are going to be deleted in 48hrs

pvaudio
12-01-2012, 08:40 PM
lol all our posts are going to be deleted in 48hrsThat's why I'm posting lol :D