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tennis_tater
10-22-2010, 05:41 PM
Anyone playing in the tournament this weekend? Thoughts on favorite to win it all? Looks like the Southern team from Alabama is going to be tough with their singles players. Not quite sure how their their #1 singles player is a computer rated 4.0 after looking at his scores. 4 out of 5 matches at state were 6-0 6-0. 4 out of his 5 at sectionals were non-competitive and now his two matches at nationals are 6-0 6-1 and 6-1 6-1. Looks like the guy has won a number of open and 4.5 tournaments as well.

Z-Man
10-22-2010, 07:12 PM
That is a very solid team, and it was also well-recruited--meaning their ringers had computer ratings. That's why their best singles player was able to win so many matches 6-0, 6-0 without fear of being DQ'd. Their #2 singles player is excellent, but beatable, and one of their lines of doubles is good but not great. A team with 1 awesome singles player and 2 excellent lines of doubles could beat them with the right lineup. It will be interesting to see how they do at Nationals. A lot of it will come down to who was able to get through state and sectionals without having key players DQ'd.

vizsla
10-23-2010, 06:36 AM
Note: Looks like their (Southern team) best singles player (initials W.M.) got the "quadruple" bump from 4.0 to 6.0. Google search shows a college player but also played in a Davis Cup qualifier (Kenya?).

Tall Bama Guy
10-23-2010, 06:53 AM
Note: Looks like their (Southern team) best singles player (initials W.M.) got the "quadruple" bump from 4.0 to 6.0. Google search shows a college player but also played in a Davis Cup qualifier (Kenya?).

He was only the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. The odd thing is that the computer had moved him down to 4.0 based on actual league results over the last 4 years. He self rated 5.0 when he got out of college and the computer moved him down twice. A team filed against him at sectional which resulted in the huge bump because of the davis cup thing. There are only probably a dozen people in Kenya that even play tennis. Willis was a very good 4.0, and would be a slightly above average 4.5 if allowed to play. Moving to 6.0 is an absolute joke. More evidence of the infinite wisdom of the computer.

vizsla
10-23-2010, 07:11 AM
Agree (based on USTA league results) that the quad bump was too much BUT he did play in the D Cup qualifier. That's where some people, especially some current and former junior players don't realize that even if they play a match (and lose) in a satellite tournament, they are automatically subject to being a 6.0. Kind of sucks, but maybe they should look at it on a case-by-case basis.

Ques: He was their 3rd best? Wow. Then would love to see their one and two (TM and AM) play.

Tall Bama Guy
10-23-2010, 08:30 AM
Todd Meckes can play. Never seen anyone improve as much as him in just a few years. He was computer rated 3.5 just 3 years ago. Quick as a cat and plays smart. Doesn't try to do things beyond his ability like most people and patiently waits for the opportunity. Works out with Austin Powell when AP is home, and has occasionally won a set.

tennis_tater
10-23-2010, 10:13 AM
Todd Meckes can play. Never seen anyone improve as much as him in just a few years. He was computer rated 3.5 just 3 years ago. Quick as a cat and plays smart. Doesn't try to do things beyond his ability like most people and patiently waits for the opportunity. Works out with Austin Powell when AP is home, and has occasionally won a set.

So what's TM's past tennis history, besides being computer rated 3.5 at some point in time? Did he play juniors, or college? Looking at his scores against top competition, I find it hard to believe he was ever a true 3.5 at some point in time. I could see someone who is just getting back into the game self-rating as a 3.5 at some point in time, then generating a computer rated 3.5 after playing one year of league in 3.5...but that doesn't necessarily mean he was truly a 3.5. Not losing at game at Alabama state would tell me either he is a ringer or Alabama state league was weak. But then he destroyed the competition at sectionals and now looks like he is doing the same at nationals.

tennis_tater
10-23-2010, 10:36 AM
He was only the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. The odd thing is that the computer had moved him down to 4.0 based on actual league results over the last 4 years. He self rated 5.0 when he got out of college and the computer moved him down twice. A team filed against him at sectional which resulted in the huge bump because of the davis cup thing. There are only probably a dozen people in Kenya that even play tennis. Willis was a very good 4.0, and would be a slightly above average 4.5 if allowed to play. Moving to 6.0 is an absolute joke. More evidence of the infinite wisdom of the computer.


Seems odd that he would be DQ'd if he rated properly in the first place (5.0 as college player) and then the computer bumped him down after playing at the 5.0 level. If he was moved down by the computer, then he should have been "computer rated," which I thought was not subject to dynamic disqualification or grievance???

Tall Bama Guy
10-23-2010, 10:51 AM
So what's TM's past tennis history, besides being computer rated 3.5 at some point in time? Did he play juniors, or college? Looking at his scores against top competition, I find it hard to believe he was ever a true 3.5 at some point in time. I could see someone who is just getting back into the game self-rating as a 3.5 at some point in time, then generating a computer rated 3.5 after playing one year of league in 3.5...but that doesn't necessarily mean he was truly a 3.5. Not losing at game at Alabama state would tell me either he is a ringer or Alabama state league was weak. But then he destroyed the competition at sectionals and now looks like he is doing the same at nationals.

He did not play junior or college, or even high school - took up the game casually while in college, I think because his girlfriend liked to play. Just someone with a real aptitude for the game and did not start playing until he was in his early 20's. He was a legit 3.5 at one time. He had no backhand at all and could not volley to save his life.

Tall Bama Guy
10-23-2010, 10:58 AM
Seems odd that he would be DQ'd if he rated properly in the first place (5.0 as college player) and then the computer bumped him down after playing at the 5.0 level. If he was moved down by the computer, then he should have been "computer rated," which I thought was not subject to dynamic disqualification or grievance???

Tater, we thought the same thing. Something to do with full disclosure concerning the DC issue. My understanding is that he was actually bumped by committee to 6.0, not by the computer.

jdawgg
10-23-2010, 11:07 AM
So are the guys at nationals all 4.5/5.0s?

JoelDali
10-23-2010, 11:43 AM
Of course...the top tier self rated 4.0 players are 4.5 - 5.0.

Z-Man
10-23-2010, 03:44 PM
Tall Bama Guy:
It's good to hear the real story on TM. I think there was some mis-information going around at Sectionals that was confusing him with the other guy on their team who got DQ'd. I only got to see a few games, but it was interesting watching him play. He really didn't have an overpowering game, but he moved very well, and his placement was excellent. He seemed to hit a lot of balls medium-paced, but he didn't miss much, and if he got his opponent out of position, the point was over. Our guy (who is a great player) gave him a very good match, but the guy was just too steady, and he was completely un-phased by the heat.

Z-Man
10-23-2010, 04:02 PM
Side Note:
The guys I played against on the Alabama team were extremely nice, and their captain was a nice guy too. I think everyone on the team was gracious with the exception of one young punk who called everyone he played a F#$@&!^ Cheater. I can't fault them for putting together a great team. I hope they win.

Tall Bama Guy
10-23-2010, 04:30 PM
Who did you play Z? Pretty much all good guys and Paul (capt) did put together a strong team.

Z-Man
10-23-2010, 09:47 PM
I played BWM and HP. Great guys. I'm guessing that's really their #3 team, but they played them at #2. I think they used the "anti-stacking stack" a lot. Meaning #1 plays #3, #2 plays #1 and #3 plays #2. We won a singles match against them, and my partner and I won our doubles match, so I think we could have beaten them with a lucky lineup. I would like to try out their best doubles team with my regular partner (who got DQ'd and could not play at sectionals.) It's so hard to tell how good someone is unless you step on the court with them, but they looked solid.

That team was put together just to win state and beyond. They were recruited from all over Alabama, and great care was taken to find guys with computer ratings. It's tough to beat a team like that.

jdawgg
10-23-2010, 09:56 PM
I played BWM and HP. Great guys. I'm guessing that's really their #3 team, but they played them at #2. I think they used the "anti-stacking stack" a lot. Meaning #1 plays #3, #2 plays #1 and #3 plays #2. We won a singles match against them, and my partner and I won our doubles match, so I think we could have beaten them with a lucky lineup. I would like to try out their best doubles team with my regular partner (who got DQ'd and could not play at sectionals.) It's so hard to tell how good someone is unless you step on the court with them, but they looked solid.

That team was put together just to win state and beyond. They were recruited from all over Alabama, and great care was taken to find guys with computer ratings. It's tough to beat a team like that.

What's the advantage of having a computer rating? Does that mean you wont get bumped up until the next season no matter what -- including usta tournaments?

Anyone know the 4.0 team that won it last year?

tennis_tater
10-24-2010, 06:09 AM
What's the advantage of having a computer rating? Does that mean you wont get bumped up until the next season no matter what -- including usta tournaments?Anyone know the 4.0 team that won it last year?

According to the usta regulations, a computer rated player is not subject to dynamic disqualification, whereas a mixed player, self-rated player, and/or an appeal player is subject to DQ.

I saw Alabama's singles player, TM, did lose one match at Sectionals, which appears to have been his only competitive match this season. However, when you look up the player he lost to from Kentucky, it looks like that player is an assistant coach for some small college in Kentucky. I don't know, but I would think that player for Kentucky, as an assist. coach, probably played college somewhere and probably shouldn't have been a 4.0 himself.

Looks like Alabama made it through to the semifinals. Looks like the team that was put together off the court to win it all is doing a great job on the court!

Z-Man
10-24-2010, 01:54 PM
Dawg:
Like Tater said, the computer rating makes players like TM totally immune from being DQ'd. That's why he felt free to double bagel everyone. They really thought it out in a way my team did not. I think we could have won sectionals if one of our key players hadn't been DQ'd, but we weren't thinking that far ahead when the team was put together. This Alabama team didn't leave anything to chance.

Tall Bama Guy
10-24-2010, 02:27 PM
Congrats to the boys from BAMA - national 4.0 champs!! Way to go guys!!

christo
10-24-2010, 03:46 PM
Good luck to the guy who got bumped to 6.0, he'll never win another USTA match, may as well start appealing right now. The USTA just takes my breath away sometimes, so many inconsistencies, very few logical explanations:mad:

Bama Bear
10-27-2010, 02:50 PM
He was only the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. The odd thing is that the computer had moved him down to 4.0 based on actual league results over the last 4 years. He self rated 5.0 when he got out of college and the computer moved him down twice. A team filed against him at sectional which resulted in the huge bump because of the davis cup thing. There are only probably a dozen people in Kenya that even play tennis. Willis was a very good 4.0, and would be a slightly above average 4.5 if allowed to play. Moving to 6.0 is an absolute joke. More evidence of the infinite wisdom of the computer. True the infinite wisdom of the computer needs some adjusting however its my understanding after conferring with TM that humans program the computers. The problem I see is that our local and state officials have let the game of tennis past them by. Are the coordinators doing whats best for the game or whats best for them? Also soon to come will be the Southern Tennis Players Association. The PLAYERS are the SHOW not the COORDINATORS!. Isn't it time the players had alot more say in the everyday operation?

tennis_tater
10-27-2010, 02:50 PM
Good luck to the guy who got bumped to 6.0, he'll never win another USTA match

At 6.0, he may not get to play another league match, much less win one. That's a shame if the computer truly bumped him down over the years after rating himself as a 5.0. However, looking back at his tennis history, kind of hard to figure out how he got bumped down considering his past match resullts. Doesn't look like he played much other than mixed (1-3 matches per year), but he did win matches at Mixed 9.0 and Mixed 10.0.

Bama Bear
10-27-2010, 03:01 PM
True the infinite wisdom of the computer needs some adjusting however its my understanding after conferring with TM that humans program the computers. The problem I see is that our local and state officials have let the game of tennis past them by. Are the coordinators doing whats best for the game or whats best for them? Also soon to come will be the Southern Tennis Players Association. The PLAYERS are the SHOW not the COORDINATORS!. Isn't it time the players had alot more say in the everyday operation?

So are the guys at nationals all 4.5/5.0s?
Make the journey and find out my friend. We did and had a BLAST!

tennis_tater
10-27-2010, 03:01 PM
True the infinite wisdom of the computer needs some adjusting

It doesn't sound like it was the computer that did this, but rather the committee. I recently read an article by a represenative on one of the sectional grievance committees who explained that players who have attempted to "game the system" by not disclosing their true tennis history have their ratings adjusted to a much higher level than if they had answered the questions truthfully at the initial self-rating. From the information posted on here, it seems like the Alabama player, while disclosing his college experience at self-rating, did not disclose the Davis Cup experience. Of course, had he done so, his rating would have been off the charts to begin with and he would have likely been stuck going through the appeal process at the very beginning trying to get his rating down from a 6.0 to a 5.0. Looks like all the commitee did with him is send him back to square one today and now he will have the opportunity to appeal and explain his complete tennis history and why his rating should be lowered.

That being said, I could really care less if a kid played some Davis Cup tie for a third world country if he played small time college tennis without great success and his USTA league results say he should be 4.0-4.5. Hopefully this player will be able to appeal his 6.0 rating and get to play league again one day soon.

Bama Bear
10-27-2010, 03:10 PM
So what's TM's past tennis history, besides being computer rated 3.5 at some point in time? Did he play juniors, or college? Looking at his scores against top competition, I find it hard to believe he was ever a true 3.5 at some point in time. I could see someone who is just getting back into the game self-rating as a 3.5 at some point in time, then generating a computer rated 3.5 after playing one year of league in 3.5...but that doesn't necessarily mean he was truly a 3.5. Not losing at game at Alabama state would tell me either he is a ringer or Alabama state league was weak. But then he destroyed the competition at sectionals and now looks like he is doing the same at nationals. TM was never a 3.5 computer rated player. TM was a 3.5 appeal player! As far as the Alabama State league being weak come get you some. We Welcome ALL from local, state and NATIONALS!

vizsla
10-27-2010, 04:33 PM
Bama Bear:

Were you on the Match Point team? If so, congrats!!

decades
10-27-2010, 04:57 PM
4.0 really brings out the ringers don't it?

Bama Bear
10-27-2010, 05:11 PM
Bama Bear:

Were you on the Match Point team? If so, congrats!!Captain. Don't care to let people know who I am.

Bama Bear
10-27-2010, 05:18 PM
It doesn't sound like it was the computer that did this, but rather the committee. I recently read an article by a represenative on one of the sectional grievance committees who explained that players who have attempted to "game the system" by not disclosing their true tennis history have their ratings adjusted to a much higher level than if they had answered the questions truthfully at the initial self-rating. From the information posted on here, it seems like the Alabama player, while disclosing his college experience at self-rating, did not disclose the Davis Cup experience. Of course, had he done so, his rating would have been off the charts to begin with and he would have likely been stuck going through the appeal process at the very beginning trying to get his rating down from a 6.0 to a 5.0. Looks like all the commitee did with him is send him back to square one today and now he will have the opportunity to appeal and explain his complete tennis history and why his rating should be lowered.

That being said, I could really care less if a kid played some Davis Cup tie for a third world country if he played small time college tennis without great success and his USTA league results say he should be 4.0-4.5. Hopefully this player will be able to appeal his 6.0 rating and get to play league again one day soon. If the state and sectional coordinators would stand up for what is right Willis would be playing next year. Some people are busy kissing the wrong end just to move up in the usta ranks. They got a worse problem than the folks in Washington, DC. By the way his rating has been appealed to the same closet case that bumped him to 6.0 (All political my friend).

vizsla
10-27-2010, 06:13 PM
Bama Bear:

Just sent you an email.

Vizsla

SlapShot
10-28-2010, 07:57 AM
Looks like the MN team came in second - they are a solid team. Quite a few of them were ESR'd to 4.5 this year.

That's the second good showing for a men's Northern team at Nationals recently (last year the 4.5 team won it). Can we finally put the "cold states have weaker NTRP" to rest? ;)

SmackDown
10-28-2010, 11:31 AM
According to the usta regulations, a computer rated player is not subject to dynamic disqualification, whereas a mixed player, self-rated player, and/or an appeal player is subject to DQ.

I saw Alabama's singles player, TM, did lose one match at Sectionals, which appears to have been his only competitive match this season. However, when you look up the player he lost to from Kentucky, it looks like that player is an assistant coach for some small college in Kentucky. I don't know, but I would think that player for Kentucky, as an assist. coach, probably played college somewhere and probably shouldn't have been a 4.0 himself.

Looks like Alabama made it through to the semifinals. Looks like the team that was put together off the court to win it all is doing a great job on the court!

Funny Fact: The Kentucky team from 4.0 Southern Sectionals was the team that filed the grievance against WM - unfortunately for them - they had one
guy DQ'd before Sectionals for self-rating under 2 different names - and 2 players DQ'd after Sectionals for self-rating 4.0 when they were former college tennis players.

Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

tennis_tater
10-28-2010, 01:14 PM
Funny Fact: The Kentucky team from 4.0 Southern Sectionals was the team that filed the grievance against WM - unfortunately for them - they had one
guy DQ'd before Sectionals for self-rating under 2 different names - and 2 players DQ'd after Sectionals for self-rating 4.0 when they were former college tennis players.

Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

Looking at the roster of the Kentucky team that Alabama beat in the finals, it doesn't look like any of their rostered players have had their ratings changed or increased from any point in the season, either before or after sectionals. Looks like they are all still rated 4.0's. However, if you are correct, and Kentucky had two former college players on their roster and still got beat, how stacked was Alabama to have a bunch of "4.0's" beat a team with former college players?

And what's the deal with all of these college players playing 4.0? If they are truly all ex-college players, I hope they are at least over the age of 40 or 50.I've heard of self-rate QB's with former college players sandbagging at the 4.5 level. Why would they even want to play at the 4.0 level? Does that USTA golden ball really mean anything when you are playing a whole level or two below what you should be playing?

And looking back at WM's tennis history, it looks like he didn't even play any matches at Southern sectionals. Are you saying that the Kentucky team, who wasn't even in the same division of 4.0 as Alabama and could not meet them unless they both went to the finals, filed a grievance against WM as a preemptive strike? I could see Kentucky filing a grievance if WM played against them, or if they even saw the kid play a match or two at sectionals, but you are saying they did it before?

ohplease
10-28-2010, 01:41 PM
And what's the deal with all of these college players playing 4.0? If they are truly all ex-college players, I hope they are at least over the age of 40 or 50.I've heard of self-rate QB's with former college players sandbagging at the 4.5 level. Why would they even want to play at the 4.0 level? Does that USTA golden ball really mean anything when you are playing a whole level or two below what you should be playing?

Forget 4.5 - the top of just 4.0 often features former college players and full time teaching pros, and can feature some very, very good players. To the point that guys that currently hold or used to hold ATP tour points are sometimes caught playing at that level.

It is what it is. The only real fix is to get rid of the artificial demarcations.

OrangePower
10-28-2010, 03:07 PM
Forget 4.5 - the top of just 4.0 often features former college players and full time teaching pros, and can feature some very, very good players. To the point that guys that currently hold or used to hold ATP tour points are sometimes caught playing at that level.

It is what it is. The only real fix is to get rid of the artificial demarcations.

Without demarcations, 99% of USTA membership would never get the chance to play in playoffs. Personally I would be fine with that, but most people like having playoffs as an achievable goal. So it ain't gonna happen.

There is another simple fix that I think will work and can be easily implemented: Don't allow self-rated players to participate in playoffs. For the legit self-rated players, it means they have to 'suffer' for a year, but hey, most people don't get to playoffs every year anyway.

This would remove the incentive for having self-rated sandbaggers. And if a sandbagger is that dedicated that he/she is willing to throw games and sacrifice a year just to get a lower computer rating for the next year, then there's nothing that will stop this kind of person from cheating anyway.

Bama Bear
10-28-2010, 03:27 PM
Seems odd that he would be DQ'd if he rated properly in the first place (5.0 as college player) and then the computer bumped him down after playing at the 5.0 level. If he was moved down by the computer, then he should have been "computer rated," which I thought was not subject to dynamic disqualification or grievance??? Willis did rate properly and provided all the pertinent info about his tennis history. The computer suggested a 5.0 rating. Willis' 4.0 rating was generated by playing mixed league which left Willis vunerable for another team to file a greivance against him which they did. Kentucky filed the greivance although they had 4 college players playing and 1 player who rated in under a different name. Explain to me how the state coordinator from KY. didn't know that the KY. team was using under-rated players????????? and in some cases illegal players. Ray Charles would have figured this out!!!!!!!!

tennis_tater
10-28-2010, 03:46 PM
Willis did rate properly and provided all the pertinent info about his tennis history. The computer suggested a 5.0 rating. Willis' 4.0 rating was generated by playing mixed league which left Willis vunerable for another team to file a greivance against him which they did. Kentucky filed the greivance although they had 4 college players playing and 1 player who rated in under a different name. Explain to me how the state coordinator from KY. didn't know that the KY. team was using under-rated players????????? and in some cases illegal players. Ray Charles would have figured this out!!!!!!!!

I guess my question is this. It doesn't look like Willis every played a single match at sectionals. That being said, since you all did not play Kentucky until the finals, are you saying that Kentucky filed a grievance before the start of the tournament against your Willis just based upon their scouting of teams on a side of the bracket that they were not even in? If that's the case, it looks like Kentucky was trying to win off of the court before they even won on the court.

Also, you keep pointing out that Kentucky had 4 college palyers and one who rated under a different name. Just curious, since you all beat them. How many college guys, besides Willis, did Alabama have?

rallyjunkie
10-28-2010, 05:41 PM
TM beat a DQed guy 3 and 1 yet wasn't DQed himself? Come on. How is this guy not DQed?

Eastern had a top singles player DQed before sectionals but there were several singles players better than him out there. Why would Eastern strip it's team of one of its top singles players?

USTA Leagues are so corrupt. It seems more about the smartest cheaters winning than authentic 4.0 tennis.

Bama Bear
10-28-2010, 07:55 PM
TM beat a DQed guy 3 and 1 yet wasn't DQed himself? Come on. How is this guy not DQed?

Eastern had a top singles player DQed before sectionals but there were several singles players better than him out there. Why would Eastern strip it's team of one of its top singles players?

USTA Leagues are so corrupt. It seems more about the smartest cheaters winning than authentic 4.0 tennis. Sounds like a rated 4.0 player who is actually a low level 3.5 who can't win at the 4.0 level. Probably played against his next door neighbor every match and won! Run home and told the wife he won again! Great for the ego but not the ratings. Great local player.

Bama Bear
10-28-2010, 08:01 PM
I guess my question is this. It doesn't look like Willis every played a single match at sectionals. That being said, since you all did not play Kentucky until the finals, are you saying that Kentucky filed a grievance before the start of the tournament against your Willis just based upon their scouting of teams on a side of the bracket that they were not even in? If that's the case, it looks like Kentucky was trying to win off of the court before they even won on the court.

Also, you keep pointing out that Kentucky had 4 college palyers and one who rated under a different name. Just curious, since you all beat them. How many college guys, besides Willis, did Alabama have? 1 college guy. Dr. Meares our team chiropractor-3.5

J_R_B
10-28-2010, 08:03 PM
TM beat a DQed guy 3 and 1 yet wasn't DQed himself? Come on. How is this guy not DQed?

Eastern had a top singles player DQed before sectionals but there were several singles players better than him out there. Why would Eastern strip it's team of one of its top singles players?

USTA Leagues are so corrupt. It seems more about the smartest cheaters winning than authentic 4.0 tennis.

He wasn't DQ'd because he was C-rated from playing 4.0 leagues the previous 2 years (and was not a former Davis Cup player, LOL). It's not that hard to figure out.

Bama Bear
10-28-2010, 08:08 PM
Without demarcations, 99% of USTA membership would never get the chance to play in playoffs. Personally I would be fine with that, but most people like having playoffs as an achievable goal. So it ain't gonna happen.

There is another simple fix that I think will work and can be easily implemented: Don't allow self-rated players to participate in playoffs. For the legit self-rated players, it means they have to 'suffer' for a year, but hey, most people don't get to playoffs every year anyway.

This would remove the incentive for having self-rated sandbaggers. And if a sandbagger is that dedicated that he/she is willing to throw games and sacrifice a year just to get a lower computer rating for the next year, then there's nothing that will stop this kind of person from cheating anyway. Spoke with the National league coordinator last week in Tucson at length about this very subject. Will be on the agenda at next national meeting. Only 2.5 and 3.0 may play in the state through national tournament as a self-rate. Great ideal!

XFactorer
10-29-2010, 12:37 AM
I was rootin' for Northern only because my team was beaten by Northern. :-)

We would have liked to say that we lost to the champions in round robin.

I'm surprised SoCal got beaten up on so badly in round robin play. They were the team that we feared to play. Luckily they rolled over on the last day of play. We had a singles guy on the team go from 0-5 in the first to win it 7-6, 6-2.

Bama Bear
10-29-2010, 05:11 AM
Looks like the MN team came in second - they are a solid team. Quite a few of them were ESR'd to 4.5 this year.

That's the second good showing for a men's Northern team at Nationals recently (last year the 4.5 team won it). Can we finally put the "cold states have weaker NTRP" to rest? ;) The so called cold states have a great team. No shame in their game. Great people on and off the courts. Congrats to the whole team from the Southern Boys. See you next year!
"The Bear"
P.S.-How Bout an invite up North for some Ice Fishing?

Bama Bear
10-29-2010, 05:20 AM
Anyone playing in the tournament this weekend? Thoughts on favorite to win it all? Looks like the Southern team from Alabama is going to be tough with their singles players. Not quite sure how their their #1 singles player is a computer rated 4.0 after looking at his scores. 4 out of 5 matches at state were 6-0 6-0. 4 out of his 5 at sectionals were non-competitive and now his two matches at nationals are 6-0 6-1 and 6-1 6-1. Looks like the guy has won a number of open and 4.5 tournaments as well. When you practice against the best you become the best. TM is the best 4.0 in the Nation. I don't consider him a great player however I do consider him a great PERSON! There it is Sports Fans the secret is Out. Great people make great Players!

rallyjunkie
10-29-2010, 06:06 AM
He wasn't DQ'd because he was C-rated from playing 4.0 leagues the previous 2 years (and was not a former Davis Cup player, LOL). It's not that hard to figure out.

But if you beat a former Davis Cup player you are obviously sandbagging your results to look 4.0. they both should have been DQed. a 4.o does not beat a former DC player.
it should have been immediate dismissal of both. We know there are many many examples of sophisticated cheating and corruption in USTA league tennis, especialy in 4.0. Alabama is the best at it.

rallyjunkie
10-29-2010, 06:07 AM
When you practice against the best you become the best. TM is the best 4.0 in the Nation. I don't consider him a great player however I do consider him a great PERSON! There it is Sports Fans the secret is Out. Great people make great Players!

How did that world class ingrate Marcelo Rios become a great player?

rallyjunkie
10-29-2010, 06:09 AM
Sounds like a rated 4.0 player who is actually a low level 3.5 who can't win at the 4.0 level. Probably played against his next door neighbor every match and won! Run home and told the wife he won again! Great for the ego but not the ratings. Great local player.

actually a true 4.5 player who would have beat Mecks.

tennis_tater
10-29-2010, 07:31 AM
When you practice against the best you become the best. TM is the best 4.0 in the Nation. I don't consider him a great player however I do consider him a great PERSON! There it is Sports Fans the secret is Out. Great people make great Players!

If TM is the best 4.0 in the nations, where does that 4.0 singles player from Kentucky who beat TM in the finals of Southern Sectionals rank?

tennis tom
10-29-2010, 08:18 AM
USTA Leagues are so corrupt. It seems more about the smartest cheaters winning than authentic 4.0 tennis.

After being on several teams that made it to play-offs, this is my view of it also. League tennis is destroying tennis. I used to play with everyone at my club. Now payers only play with their posse--why waste any time playing with anyone not on your team? Club owners give away free memberships (that I paid good money for) to decorate their fences with $10 tin signs. I go out on a weekend to play some tennis and my entire club's courts are taken, during prime time, by players who I don't recognize. I can't tell who is playing for my club and who's a mercenary.

When the match is over, the club empties out and no one is left playing tennis on a beautiful summer afternoon--why bother playing with someone not on your team?

You used to have club ladders where you could legitimately measure your abilities against people you knew. Now you have 3.0 housewives, delusional about their abilities, vying to be the best of the mediocre nationally, who don't even know if the line is in or out.

League tennis has decimated Senior Age Group tournaments with more being lost every year. These are tournaments where you can legitimately measure your abilities. It makes no sense at all for a 50 year old to be playing against an 18 year old, or a 35 year old for that matter. The people who figured out the five year increments for age groups knew what they were doing. There's a reason ATP players are old at 29 and Andre Agassi, one of the most fit, retired at 35.

Instead of being judged by one's abilites, some computer, that has never seen a player hit a ball, makes a decision how good a player is. I've never seen an explanation of how the computer comes to its decisions that's made any sense in the discussions at this board. Everyone who has tried to figure out the computer generated rankings is befuddled by it.

This all makes perfect sense in today's "reality" where our lives are increasingly controlled by the "smartest cheaters" politicians/lawyers.

JoelDali
10-29-2010, 08:31 AM
This all makes perfect sense in today's "reality" where our lives are increasingly controlled by the "smartest cheaters" politicians/lawyers.

Wow, just look at the USTA Board of Directrors.

Looks like the White House staff.

I think you're on to something!

:)

http://assets.usta.com/assets/643/USTA_Import/images/sitecore_ustasections/Board%202010.jpg

J_R_B
10-29-2010, 10:01 AM
But if you beat a former Davis Cup player you are obviously sandbagging your results to look 4.0. they both should have been DQed. a 4.o does not beat a former DC player.
it should have been immediate dismissal of both. We know there are many many examples of sophisticated cheating and corruption in USTA league tennis, especialy in 4.0. Alabama is the best at it.

The Davis Cup guy is(/was) his teammate. They didn't play each other.

jhick
10-29-2010, 11:37 AM
Looks like the MN team came in second - they are a solid team. Quite a few of them were ESR'd to 4.5 this year.

That's the second good showing for a men's Northern team at Nationals recently (last year the 4.5 team won it). Can we finally put the "cold states have weaker NTRP" to rest? ;)

Sweet USTA Northern coming on strong! I happened to be on the MN 4.5 team that won nationals last year in Vegas. I think the last 4.5 Northern team to win it all was back in the late 90's.

SmackDown
10-29-2010, 12:23 PM
Sweet USTA Northern coming on strong! I happened to be on the MN 4.5 team that won nationals last year in Vegas. I think the last 4.5 Northern team to win it all was back in the late 90's.

I was in Las Vegas last year at the 4.5 Nationals with the Alabama 4.5
team and I saw you guys from the MN Northern Section win it all. Congrats! - you guys had a great team!
Alabama ended up finishing 4th - if they could have got any of their #2 singles
players to go to Nationals things might have been different.

SmackDown
10-29-2010, 12:24 PM
If TM is the best 4.0 in the nations, where does that 4.0 singles player from Kentucky who beat TM in the finals of Southern Sectionals rank?

The Kentucky singles player who beat TM was DQ'd immediately after
Sectionals and would not have been eligible for Nationals had Kentucky
won. He was a former NAIA college player.

jhick
10-29-2010, 12:32 PM
I was in Las Vegas last year at the 4.5 Nationals with the Alabama 4.5
team and I saw you guys from the MN Northern Section win it all. Congrats! - you guys had a great team!
Alabama ended up finishing 4th - if they could have got any of their #2 singles
players to go to Nationals things might have been different.

Boy we had some nailbiters at nationals, including the one against you guys if I recall correctly. I only played in one match because my doubles partner was nursing some injuries, and our captain was going with the "hot" players since our team kept on winning.

It was a blast going down to Vegas, winning it all, celebrating, and watching the Vikings and Favre go into Lambeau field and beat up on the Pack afterwards.

JoelDali
10-29-2010, 12:38 PM
Club pros and Davis cuppers playing 4.0.

I would be ashamed to be one of you guys.

Its downright hilarious though.

:)

SlapShot
10-29-2010, 12:43 PM
Sweet USTA Northern coming on strong! I happened to be on the MN 4.5 team that won nationals last year in Vegas. I think the last 4.5 Northern team to win it all was back in the late 90's.

You guys played out of Wooddale, right?

jhick
10-29-2010, 12:53 PM
You guys played out of Wooddale, right?

No we actually played out of Fred Wells. Some of the guys on our team practiced some at Wooddale though. I never made it out there for practice since I lived in Shakopee, which is about a 40 minute drive.

ace18
10-29-2010, 01:02 PM
jhick, you in Rochester, MN? I'm 4.5 in Atlanta but grew up in Austin, MN. I head back every summer for vacation and stay with my mom in Rochester for several days. Always wanting to hit, but don't know anyone there. If you are there, maybe we can hit next summer, I know its a long time away.

tennis_tater
10-29-2010, 01:17 PM
The Kentucky singles player who beat TM was DQ'd immediately after
Sectionals and would not have been eligible for Nationals had Kentucky
won. He was a former NAIA college player.

I'm just asking b/c I am apparently missing something. When I look at the Alabama team roster, and you click on the player who was DQ'd, it shows that he was DQ'd next to all of his results and his NTRP has been bumped to 6.0. HOwever, when you go to the Kentucky team, none of their players results have a DQ next to it and none of their ratings, including the guy who beat TM, have been bumped higher than 4.0. When you go to the Find a Rating for the Kentucky guy, it is still showing he is a 4.0.

We have been dealing with a DQ recently and I know that when I player is DQ'd, there are changes on the player's past tennis history and there are changes on the Find a Rating search function. However, I'm not seeing any of that for the Kentucky team. I'm just curious, but how do you know all of these Kentucky players were DQ'd after Sectionals when there is nothing on Tennis Link showing the DQ's?

jhick
10-29-2010, 01:20 PM
jhick, you in Rochester, MN? I'm 4.5 in Atlanta but grew up in Austin, MN. I head back every summer for vacation and stay with my mom in Rochester for several days. Always wanting to hit, but don't know anyone there. If you are there, maybe we can hit next summer, I know its a long time away.
Sounds good. I'm always looking for someone to hit with.

Since moving down to Rochester this summer, I've kind of gotten connected with both the Rochester Athletic Club (my brother in law is a teaching pro there) and Butorac's Tennis Connection, which I'm probably going to join at some point since it's more affordable. If you're interested in some doubles, I could probably set something up as well.

ace18
10-29-2010, 01:41 PM
Sounds good. I'm always looking for someone to hit with.

Since moving down to Rochester this summer, I've kind of gotten connected with both the Rochester Athletic Club (my brother in law is a teaching pro there) and Butorac's Tennis Connection, which I'm probably going to join at some point since it's more affordable. If you're interested in some doubles, I could probably set something up as well.

Good deal. I used to hit at the Rochester tennis club some in the late 70's, early 80's and knew Tim then. We used to have High School tennis battles with Mayo. I actually played a lot at the indoor center because one of my Rochester buddies folks owned it at that time. In fact, 2 summers ago I stopped up at RTC to see Tim, but he was at Wimbledon watching Eric. I turned 45 this year and still play both singles and doubles, but singles is being phased out, too much work, doubles is always good.

jhick
10-29-2010, 01:46 PM
Good deal. I used to hit at the Rochester tennis club some in the late 70's, early 80's and knew Tim then. We used to have High School tennis battles with Mayo. I actually played a lot at the indoor center because one of my Rochester buddies folks owned it at that time. In fact, 2 summers ago I stopped up at RTC to see Tim, but he was at Wimbledon watching Eric. I turned 45 this year and still play both singles and doubles, but singles is being phased out, too much work, doubles is always good.

Tim is a good guy. I played doubles with him last Sunday. Was able to get connected with his group through another 4.5 player here at the Mayo Clinic.

Bama Bear
10-29-2010, 03:15 PM
I played BWM and HP. Great guys. I'm guessing that's really their #3 team, but they played them at #2. I think they used the "anti-stacking stack" a lot. Meaning #1 plays #3, #2 plays #1 and #3 plays #2. We won a singles match against them, and my partner and I won our doubles match, so I think we could have beaten them with a lucky lineup. I would like to try out their best doubles team with my regular partner (who got DQ'd and could not play at sectionals.) It's so hard to tell how good someone is unless you step on the court with them, but they looked solid.

That team was put together just to win state and beyond. They were recruited from all over Alabama, and great care was taken to find guys with computer ratings. It's tough to beat a team like that. The whole team consist of players from Muscle Shoals and Huntsville.

Paul Irvin-Muscle Shoals-Spencer Wooten(Muscle Shoals) Harold Phillips(Muscle Shoals) Todd Meckes(Muscle Shoals) Jerrell Meares(Muscle Shoals)
Hilliard Powers(Muscle Shoals)***Mark Rogers(Huntsville) Kieran Bryne(Huntsville) Billy McCarty(Huntsville) Adrew Myrick(Huntsville) Greg Chando(Huntsville) Scottie Tucker(Huntsville) Willis Mbandi(Huntsville).

SlapShot
10-29-2010, 03:21 PM
Hey - JHicks - odd small world story, last season, your 4.5 team played mine twice, but I didn't play the one match that you played against us, and I played the match you weren't at.

Bama Bear
10-29-2010, 03:26 PM
Looking at the roster of the Kentucky team that Alabama beat in the finals, it doesn't look like any of their rostered players have had their ratings changed or increased from any point in the season, either before or after sectionals. Looks like they are all still rated 4.0's. However, if you are correct, and Kentucky had two former college players on their roster and still got beat, how stacked was Alabama to have a bunch of "4.0's" beat a team with former college players?

And what's the deal with all of these college players playing 4.0? If they are truly all ex-college players, I hope they are at least over the age of 40 or 50.I've heard of self-rate QB's with former college players sandbagging at the 4.5 level. Why would they even want to play at the 4.0 level? Does that USTA golden ball really mean anything when you are playing a whole level or two below what you should be playing?

And looking back at WM's tennis history, it looks like he didn't even play any matches at Southern sectionals. Are you saying that the Kentucky team, who wasn't even in the same division of 4.0 as Alabama and could not meet them unless they both went to the finals, filed a grievance against WM as a preemptive strike? I could see Kentucky filing a grievance if WM played against them, or if they even saw the kid play a match or two at sectionals, but you are saying they did it before? The first question I asked when I was informed of the grievance filed against Willis was what is it that the Kentucky team has to HIDE? The research department for team Match Point did an excellent job! By the way I speak with some of the players from Kentucky every week great players no hard feelings!

SmackDown
10-29-2010, 05:20 PM
I'm just asking b/c I am apparently missing something. When I look at the Alabama team roster, and you click on the player who was DQ'd, it shows that he was DQ'd next to all of his results and his NTRP has been bumped to 6.0. HOwever, when you go to the Kentucky team, none of their players results have a DQ next to it and none of their ratings, including the guy who beat TM, have been bumped higher than 4.0. When you go to the Find a Rating for the Kentucky guy, it is still showing he is a 4.0.

We have been dealing with a DQ recently and I know that when I player is DQ'd, there are changes on the player's past tennis history and there are changes on the Find a Rating search function. However, I'm not seeing any of that for the Kentucky team. I'm just curious, but how do you know all of these Kentucky players were DQ'd after Sectionals when there is nothing on Tennis Link showing the DQ's?

I know because I filed the grievances and received the emails from Southern Section stating they were DQ'd. 1 was DQ'd prior to Sectionals - 2 after Sectionals. It's up to the Kentucky state league coordinator to go in and enter the DQ information which obviously she has not done.

kelawai
10-29-2010, 09:23 PM
[QUOTE=OrangePower;5150482]

There is another simple fix that I think will work and can be easily implemented: Don't allow self-rated players to participate in playoffs. For the legit self-rated players, it means they have to 'suffer' for a year, but hey, most people don't get to playoffs every year anyway.

I totally agree with this.

kelawai
10-29-2010, 09:45 PM
[QUOTE=tennis tom;5151639]

Instead of being judged by one's abilites, some computer, that has never seen a player hit a ball, makes a decision how good a player is. I've never seen an explanation of how the computer comes to its decisions that's made any sense in the discussions at this board. Everyone who has tried to figure out the computer generated rankings is befuddled by it.

I blamed it on the District League Coordinator. They are lazy to check on player when many other complaints. Just let the computer do the strikes. Or even let weak 3.5 play on 4.0 league. That is wasting of time especially the traveling and match fees which is not cheap though.

Bama Bear
10-30-2010, 03:44 AM
Tall Bama Guy:
It's good to hear the real story on TM. I think there was some mis-information going around at Sectionals that was confusing him with the other guy on their team who got DQ'd. I only got to see a few games, but it was interesting watching him play. He really didn't have an overpowering game, but he moved very well, and his placement was excellent. He seemed to hit a lot of balls medium-paced, but he didn't miss much, and if he got his opponent out of position, the point was over. Our guy (who is a great player) gave him a very good match, but the guy was just too steady, and he was completely un-phased by the heat. Z-Man to receive the real scoop on TM and National Champion Team Match Point contact the team hotline @ mst6415@aol.com!

grimmbomb21
10-30-2010, 05:22 PM
This is why I no longer play USTA. It's kind of obvious anyone getting to Sectionals and Nationals has ringers. Some are just more ridiculous than the others. In '06 I played for a 3.0 mens team that got to sectionals, and we had two guys that were playing, and winning, at 4.0 in local tournaments. I asked the captain why we didn't just have real 3.0s. His reply was that anyone that goes to sectionals or higher has a team full of ringers, and you can't win otherwise. Everyone does it. He also had the better players tank games to not get DQ'd. It's just a bunch of sad cheaters trying for an ego boost. No way to stop it I suppose.

Local tournaments are much better. They actually have a director who will watch players who are playing at lower levels to win, then kindly let them know they need to move up. Problem solved.

OrangePower
10-30-2010, 06:49 PM
This is why I no longer play USTA. It's kind of obvious anyone getting to Sectionals and Nationals has ringers. Some are just more ridiculous than the others. In '06 I played for a 3.0 mens team that got to sectionals, and we had two guys that were playing, and winning, at 4.0 in local tournaments. I asked the captain why we didn't just have real 3.0s. His reply was that anyone that goes to sectionals or higher has a team full of ringers, and you can't win otherwise. Everyone does it. He also had the better players tank games to not get DQ'd. It's just a bunch of sad cheaters trying for an ego boost. No way to stop it I suppose.

Local tournaments are much better. They actually have a director who will watch players who are playing at lower levels to win, then kindly let them know they need to move up. Problem solved.

I agree with your observation that most teams getting to sectionals and nationals have ringers.

But I don't get why this is reason for you to quit USTA league. Are you saying that it's only worth playing if you can be competitive for sectionals and nationals? Most team never make it to sectionals. So are they wasting their time?

There is plenty of enjoyment to be had just playing the local league, and local playoffs if your team is lucky enough to get that far. Don't even think beyond that.

I don't disagree with you that there are faults in the system. But if you see this as reason not to play, then you were never playing for the right reasons to begin with.

darrinbaker00
10-30-2010, 07:47 PM
This is why I no longer play USTA. It's kind of obvious anyone getting to Sectionals and Nationals has ringers. Some are just more ridiculous than the others. In '06 I played for a 3.0 mens team that got to sectionals, and we had two guys that were playing, and winning, at 4.0 in local tournaments. I asked the captain why we didn't just have real 3.0s. His reply was that anyone that goes to sectionals or higher has a team full of ringers, and you can't win otherwise. Everyone does it. He also had the better players tank games to not get DQ'd. It's just a bunch of sad cheaters trying for an ego boost. No way to stop it I suppose.

Local tournaments are much better. They actually have a director who will watch players who are playing at lower levels to win, then kindly let them know they need to move up. Problem solved.

Is the air thinner when you're above it all?

christo
10-30-2010, 11:07 PM
If players would just be honest about their tennis background, i.e. playing college tennis or making a living as a coach, a lot of this skullduggery would go away. There is little fear of consequences for cheating as the USTA doesn't enforce penalties such as a couple of years ago when a team from Fremont, CA was caught using ringers with i.d's borrowed from lesser quality players on the team. These players were suspended and the captain was banned for something like 5 years but I heard the penalties were either reduced or dropped altogether. What sort of message does that send?:mad:

goober
10-31-2010, 09:54 AM
He was only the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. The odd thing is that the computer had moved him down to 4.0 based on actual league results over the last 4 years. He self rated 5.0 when he got out of college and the computer moved him down twice. A team filed against him at sectional which resulted in the huge bump because of the davis cup thing. There are only probably a dozen people in Kenya that even play tennis. Willis was a very good 4.0, and would be a slightly above average 4.5 if allowed to play. Moving to 6.0 is an absolute joke. More evidence of the infinite wisdom of the computer.

A little gross hyperbole maybe?:) The Sadili Oval Sports Club in Langata, Kenya claims that it has 700 + children playing tennis at its facilities alone.

grimmbomb21
10-31-2010, 10:22 AM
I agree with your observation that most teams getting to sectionals and nationals have ringers.

But I don't get why this is reason for you to quit USTA league. Are you saying that it's only worth playing if you can be competitive for sectionals and nationals? Most team never make it to sectionals. So are they wasting their time?

There is plenty of enjoyment to be had just playing the local league, and local playoffs if your team is lucky enough to get that far. Don't even think beyond that.

I don't disagree with you that there are faults in the system. But if you see this as reason not to play, then you were never playing for the right reasons to begin with.

It wasn't about making playoffs or sectionals. The reason I didn't want to play anymore was that matches were less about tennis and more about congregating together to talk about x captain getting this guy or that guy that can beat our guy so we need to get x player to self rate blah blah blah. Even now years later you hear every usta captain that is recruiting people bash the next guy for cheating. Just rumors and drama at every meet.

A guy I am taking lessons from recently told me about usta tournaments that have nothing to do with teams, just singles matches. I guess I have been under a rock. So I might be doing that next year.

grimmbomb21
10-31-2010, 10:28 AM
Is the air thinner when you're above it all?

A little. Just cleaner really. ( breathes deep) Yes, 100% bull***** free. Thanks for asking.:)

OrangePower
10-31-2010, 11:12 AM
It wasn't about making playoffs or sectionals. The reason I didn't want to play anymore was that matches were less about tennis and more about congregating together to talk about x captain getting this guy or that guy that can beat our guy so we need to get x player to self rate blah blah blah. Even now years later you hear every usta captain that is recruiting people bash the next guy for cheating. Just rumors and drama at every meet.

A guy I am taking lessons from recently told me about usta tournaments that have nothing to do with teams, just singles matches. I guess I have been under a rock. So I might be doing that next year.

Yeah, fair enough, there's a lot of that kind of talk that happens. Some people enjoy the strategizing and team gossip and so on. But I can see how it puts some people off also.

USTA tournaments are cool. Also, there are USTA teams out there that are drama free - just show up, play your match, have a beer or two, and go home. You just have to find the right team I guess.

grimmbomb21
10-31-2010, 01:20 PM
Yeah, fair enough, there's a lot of that kind of talk that happens. Some people enjoy the strategizing and team gossip and so on. But I can see how it puts some people off also.

USTA tournaments are cool. Also, there are USTA teams out there that are drama free - just show up, play your match, have a beer or two, and go home. You just have to find the right team I guess.

That's why the individual tournaments sounded more appealing, imo. If you can get a couple more guys to go, you get to travel with friends around the state playing in various cities, see the sights, that kind of thing. Best of all you are always playing different people. And an occasional break from the wife and kids is never a bad thing.;-)

Bama Bear
10-31-2010, 03:49 PM
I know because I filed the grievances and received the emails from Southern Section stating they were DQ'd. 1 was DQ'd prior to Sectionals - 2 after Sectionals. It's up to the Kentucky state league coordinator to go in and enter the DQ information which obviously she has not done. Your right she hasn't entered the info because I honestly believe she was aware of the Kentucky Scam and now is trying to find a rock to hide under.

Ennismt
10-31-2010, 04:18 PM
Yeah, fair enough, there's a lot of that kind of talk that happens. Some people enjoy the strategizing and team gossip and so on. But I can see how it puts some people off also.

USTA tournaments are cool. Also, there are USTA teams out there that are drama free - just show up, play your match, have a beer or two, and go home. You just have to find the right team I guess.
League tennis is a great concept but self raters should either be out of the state and sectional competition. Maybe if self rated players had to have some tournament play to be considered it may help.

My experience has been that the talk and gossip is more about the cheating than the tennis. Plus, some of the tennis talk is about the cheating. For example, one match had the ringer purposely losing points to avoid winning by too much, so the other team did the same. The doubles match was four guys trying to lose points. Very sad and obviously a broken system.

grimmbomb21
10-31-2010, 07:16 PM
My experience has been that the talk and gossip is more about the cheating than the tennis. Plus, some of the tennis talk is about the cheating. For example, one match had the ringer purposely losing points to avoid winning by too much, so the other team did the same. The doubles match was four guys trying to lose points. Very sad and obviously a broken system.

I got to see a singles match at sectionals involving two ringers. They are both just crushing the ball (3.0 match, of course), and when one guy realizes he is going to lose, he starts tanking. Not to be outdone, the other guy starts missing on purpose, not wanting a dynamic score in his favor. But the other guy calls balls a foot out, in! No joke. So they are both complaining after the match to an official that the other is giving them points on balls that are out or missing on purpose. Just a mess. But everyone watching was entertained.:)

jhick
11-01-2010, 06:02 AM
Hey - JHicks - odd small world story, last season, your 4.5 team played mine twice, but I didn't play the one match that you played against us, and I played the match you weren't at.

Hmm...What team did you play on?

SlapShot
11-01-2010, 06:27 AM
Hmm...What team did you play on?

Krumholz - we played out of Fred Wells.

jhick
11-01-2010, 06:30 AM
Krumholz - we played out of Fred Wells.

Oh yeah, I know Tyler (I'm assuming you're not him). Never played against him, but I know he worked for the USTA for a while.

Ennismt
11-01-2010, 06:37 AM
I got to see a singles match at sectionals involving two ringers. They are both just crushing the ball (3.0 match, of course), and when one guy realizes he is going to lose, he starts tanking. Not to be outdone, the other guy starts missing on purpose, not wanting a dynamic score in his favor. But the other guy calls balls a foot out, in! No joke. So they are both complaining after the match to an official that the other is giving them points on balls that are out or missing on purpose. Just a mess. But everyone watching was entertained.:)

That would be entertaining to watch, but miserable to be a part of. I have to say that when I've played ringers they have always played hard and took whatever the computer ratings gave them next year. Though I have seen plenty of the hiding and tanking as well.

I play league and am computer rated. We won state this year which was a bit unexpeted. I don't really have aspirations beyond hoping I get several good, competitive matches in. So, the ringer situation does not bother me as long as it does not get too out of hand. In past years it has been much worse. Almost to the point that you'd expect to be playing someone up a level from you in half the matches.

Pompitous of Love
11-01-2010, 07:00 AM
I know because I filed the grievances and received the emails from Southern Section stating they were DQ'd. 1 was DQ'd prior to Sectionals - 2 after Sectionals. It's up to the Kentucky state league coordinator to go in and enter the DQ information which obviously she has not done.
Hey Smackdown, I'm in KY, know this team, and played them in Districts. Wouldn't mind knowing a few more details about who the 3 DQs are. Stocker is currently listed as DQ'd (for self-rating under more than one name?). This happened between Districts and Sectionals, right? Sounds like Cross is another, and who's the third? (Cook? Merritt? Spalding?). And you're saying the Sectional grievance was upheld against them. I wonder if they are appealing and that's what's keeping it unrecorded for now? I'm going to talk with our state coordinator and get some more info. I'll let you all know what she says.

tennis_tater
11-01-2010, 10:44 AM
Hey Smackdown, I'm in KY, know this team, and played them in Districts. Wouldn't mind knowing a few more details about who the 3 DQs are. Stocker is currently listed as DQ'd (for self-rating under more than one name?). This happened between Districts and Sectionals, right? Sounds like Cross is another, and who's the third? (Cook? Merritt? Spalding?). And you're saying the Sectional grievance was upheld against them. I wonder if they are appealing and that's what's keeping it unrecorded for now? I'm going to talk with our state coordinator and get some more info. I'll let you all know what she says.

Just curious, but looking at Stocker's results, it doesn't seem like he is a "ringer" 4.0. What were the results like that he was trying to hide by signing up under a different name?

Pompitous of Love
11-01-2010, 12:16 PM
He's solid, not a heavy duty ringer.
You'd have to ask him why he re-rated under a different name. To tell you the truth, I don't know if he was DQ'd due to the two-names or if it was simply a dynamic bump.
If you look in Tennis Link he was a 4.5 who played Mixed and Combo in '03, '04, & '05 as "Perry". Then he re-rates himself a 4.0 in '07 as "Ramon Perry", plays just Mixed and Combo for three years, then comes into the Adult league in '10.
I'd like to know what kind of DQ it is. And who the other two DQs are. And why the hell they're not reported as such.

tennis_tater
11-01-2010, 12:40 PM
He's solid, not a heavy duty ringer.
You'd have to ask him why he re-rated under a different name. To tell you the truth, I don't know if he was DQ'd due to the two-names or if it was simply a dynamic bump.
If you look in Tennis Link he was a 4.5 who played Mixed and Combo in '03, '04, & '05 as "Perry". Then he re-rates himself a 4.0 in '07 as "Ramon Perry", plays just Mixed and Combo for three years, then comes into the Adult league in '10.
I'd like to know what kind of DQ it is. And who the other two DQs are. And why the hell they're not reported as such.

Well, since Bama Bear apparantly filed the grievances against the Kentucky team, maybe Bama Bear can let us know the basis for filing the grievance. And I'm curious as to when Bama Bear filed the grievances. Were these filed after you all had already played and beaten Kentucky and, if so, what was the reason for filing the grievance if you all weren't going to see the Kentucky team again? Was it simply b/c of the grievance they filed against Alabama?

Bama Bear
11-01-2010, 03:04 PM
Well, since Bama Bear apparantly filed the grievances against the Kentucky team, maybe Bama Bear can let us know the basis for filing the grievance. And I'm curious as to when Bama Bear filed the grievances. Were these filed after you all had already played and beaten Kentucky and, if so, what was the reason for filing the grievance if you all weren't going to see the Kentucky team again? it simply b/c of the grievance they filed against Alabama? Hey tater contact me at

mst6415@aol.com

rallyjunkie
11-01-2010, 04:31 PM
good question tennis tater, this bama guy should answer it straight up in the open. nothing to hide, right?

Bama Bear
11-01-2010, 05:40 PM
good question tennis tater, this bama guy should answer it straight up in the open. nothing to hide, right? Its a long and complex story. When the tater contacts me through email I'll explain the whole scenerio to him via phone! Or better yet junkie you contact me I'll talk to you about it!

Angle Queen
11-01-2010, 05:46 PM
I started this reply some days ago...but I think it still has some merit.

Spoke with the National league coordinator last week in Tucson at length about this very subject. Will be on the agenda at next national meeting. Only 2.5 and 3.0 may play in the state through national tournament as a self-rate. Great ideal!This!!! I so hope it will pass. I also think they could revise the standards on how many "regular" matches you have to play to be eligible to "post-season" play. Two matches just seems too little...especially when many of our leagues are fairly lengthy (8+ matches).

After being on several teams that made it to play-offs, this is my view of it also. League tennis is destroying tennis. I used to play with everyone at my club. Now payers only play with their posse--why waste any time playing with anyone not on your team? Club owners give away free memberships (that I paid good money for) to decorate their fences with $10 tin signs. I go out on a weekend to play some tennis and my entire club's courts are taken, during prime time, by players who I don't recognize. I can't tell who is playing for my club and who's a mercenary.

When the match is over, the club empties out and no one is left playing tennis on a beautiful summer afternoon--why bother playing with someone not on your team?Sigh. Oh to have a lovely afternoon to play. (Childcare, or lack thereof, takes 12n-6p play out of range for me). But I can relate. I've stood inside the gates of our enclosed pool, and looked longingly out...at completely empty courts.

I'll admit, though, that we don't have many mercenaries (luv that term, BTW). We have fairly strict rules on non-members...not being allowed to play (unless we can't otherwise field a team and that's only happened a few times, mostly in the senior and super-senior divisions).

You used to have club ladders where you could legitimately measure your abilities against people you knew. Now you have 3.0 housewives, delusional about their abilities, vying to be the best of the mediocre nationally, who don't even know if the line is in or out. While we don't have a formal singles ladder (which...I'll now be prompted to prod our pro into instituting :) ), we have an elaborate Club Challenge tournament to determine our club's best doubles pairs (to then play other clubs' teams in a one-weekend tournament). It's a lot of fun, not to mention highly competitive, and forces interaction with a broad cross-section of club membership.

League tennis has decimated Senior Age Group tournaments with more being lost every year. These are tournaments where you can legitimately measure your abilities. It makes no sense at all for a 50 year old to be playing against an 18 year old, or a 35 year old for that matter. The people who figured out the five year increments for age groups knew what they were doing. There's a reason ATP players are old at 29 and Andre Agassi, one of the most fit, retired at 35.I can't really speak to what's happened amongst the seniors...except that I'm counting the years (only 5 more!) until I can participate. I've watched a few of their matches -- they look like they're having a boat load of FUN!

But your point is well-taken. While NTRP is intended to be both gender- and age-neutral...let's face it...it's not. My favorite mixed partner is...well...on the gentler side of 60. His results would clearly suggest he be bumped up (to his former status as a 4.5) but my guess is that the computer does take his age into consideration.

Instead of being judged by one's abilites, some computer, that has never seen a player hit a ball, makes a decision how good a player is. I've never seen an explanation of how the computer comes to its decisions that's made any sense in the discussions at this board. Everyone who has tried to figure out the computer generated rankings is befuddled by it.I understand USTA did away with “ratings clinics” just before I joined back in the early 2000s. Guess I can see the pros and cons of why they did it. But clearly, the “self-rate” system had some serious kinks that need to be worked out. The best suggestion I’ve seen so far has them sitting out anything beyond regular season.

As a few others have mentioned in this thread, I’ve found League play...wonderful. I’ve been on good teams...not necessarily from a results standpoint, but from one of what I believe the game to be for someone at my station in life: fun, fitness and fellowship. Fortunately, I’ve also had a taste of sweet success...unexpected as it was...and I can’t imagine all the drama that’s been described here. Sad. This.

gameboy
11-02-2010, 08:25 AM
All winning the National means that your team sandbagged and gamed the system better than everyone else.

Congrats. Now go play at your real level.

kelawai
11-02-2010, 11:55 AM
I played for several good teams also. Whenever any of us bagel or 1-1 the opponent' the Captain is not happy for our effort. Or say something like we are not helping the team. Sometimes it's feel good when you feel at the Top of the World. But there is a restriction.

Have a team mate who is a real real good player. They put his name on two courts different occasion the opponent default just to able him to qualified to play the Playofs. He does not have to play any regular season match at all. How lucky.

rallyjunkie
11-02-2010, 07:59 PM
surely bama, you can tell the short version of the story without phone calls, not that we really care that much, but it does seem like you're hiding something! and don't want to go on the public forum with it, which can later be held against you.

wvtennis
11-03-2010, 10:55 AM
My team played the Kentucky team in the final of Kentucky and lost 2-3. Honestly, the only ringer on there team was Cross. He was clearly a high level 4.5 player. He beat my guy 1 and 3, and my guy played college and went on to be DQ'd in ******* play. Cross was by far the best player we saw this year, including Southern and Sectional play. The rest of the guys on the UK team either had legit 4.0 computer ratings or self rate players that were probably 4.5 level players, but got the 4.0 self rate. I woudl like to know more about the DQ's.

wvtennis
11-03-2010, 10:56 AM
We lost to Kentucky 2-3 in Southerns, but we also play our of *******. We made it all the way to Sectionals and did not lose a match, but we had our top 2 singles guys get DQ'd. Its a shame they were DQ'd, but we knew they were on the border all year, it was a chance we had to take.

Bama Bear
11-03-2010, 07:23 PM
He's solid, not a heavy duty ringer.
You'd have to ask him why he re-rated under a different name. To tell you the truth, I don't know if he was DQ'd due to the two-names or if it was simply a dynamic bump.
If you look in Tennis Link he was a 4.5 who played Mixed and Combo in '03, '04, & '05 as "Perry". Then he re-rates himself a 4.0 in '07 as "Ramon Perry", plays just Mixed and Combo for three years, then comes into the Adult league in '10.
I'd like to know what kind of DQ it is. And who the other two DQs are. And why the hell they're not reported as such. Ok here it is. Stocker played as a 4.5. between 03--05. He re-rates @4.0 in 07' using a different name. The computer thinks that Perry Stocker and Ramon Perry Stocker are 2 different people therefore his past tennis history 03-05 wasn't picked up by the computer. If it had been picked up he would have had to rate back in as a 4.5 therefore making him inelgible to play as a 4.0. The DQ used in this matter wasn't a filed grievance but an administrative DQ levied by the Southern Section Coordinator. Not some lame duck committee but the Southern Section Coordinator who has the authority to automatically disqualify any player in her section who tries to circumvent the system.

In all fairness to Steve Cross and A. Spalding these individuals are clueless when it comes to the rating system. My knowledge after speaking with these players is that someone else signed them up and rated them in. They were just out having fun no harm intended. Good people! Steve is back teaching tennis and Austin is playing his first year at Campbellsville University with Steve being his Assist. Coach. As a matter of fact both may be in AL. next year playing a little summer tennis. Now with S. Cross and T. Meckes on the singles courts and a few others who knows. Throw ole' Austin in the mix with a few Al. players who knows we just might be singin' Ole Kentucky Home or Sweet Home Alabama Again REAL SOON. It's been a pleasure talkin to you boys you all come back now hear. One Bear gone South for the winter to play a little tennis. Merry Christmas and have a better New Year- because the Bear and Team Match Point most certainly WILL.

JoelDali
11-04-2010, 07:10 AM
Ok here it is. Stocker played as a 4.5. between 03--05. He re-rates @4.0 in 07' using a different name. The computer thinks that Perry Stocker and Ramon Perry Stocker are 2 different people therefore his past tennis history 03-05 wasn't picked up by the computer. If it had been picked up he would have had to rate back in as a 4.5 therefore making him inelgible to play as a 4.0. The DQ used in this matter wasn't a filed grievance but an administrative DQ levied by the Southern Section Coordinator. Not some lame duck committee but the Southern Section Coordinator who has the authority to automatically disqualify any player in her section who tries to circumvent the system.

In all fairness to Steve Cross and A. Spalding these individuals are clueless when it comes to the rating system. My knowledge after speaking with these players is that someone else signed them up and rated them in. They were just out having fun no harm intended. Good people! Steve is back teaching tennis and Austin is playing his first year at Campbellsville University with Steve being his Assist. Coach. As a matter of fact both may be in AL. next year playing a little summer tennis. Now with S. Cross and T. Meckes on the singles courts and a few others who knows. Throw ole' Austin in the mix with a few Al. players who knows we just might be singin' Ole Kentucky Home or Sweet Home Alabama Again REAL SOON. It's been a pleasure talkin to you boys you all come back now hear. One Bear gone South for the winter to play a little tennis. Merry Christmas and have a better New Year- because the Bear and Team Match Point most certainly WILL.

http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/joe-george-bush-picture-1%202.jpg

tennis_tater
11-04-2010, 08:08 AM
Ok here it is. Stocker played as a 4.5. between 03--05. He re-rates @4.0 in 07' using a different name. The computer thinks that Perry Stocker and Ramon Perry Stocker are 2 different people therefore his past tennis history 03-05 wasn't picked up by the computer. If it had been picked up he would have had to rate back in as a 4.5 therefore making him inelgible to play as a 4.0. The DQ used in this matter wasn't a filed grievance but an administrative DQ levied by the Southern Section Coordinator. Not some lame duck committee but the Southern Section Coordinator who has the authority to automatically disqualify any player in her section who tries to circumvent the system.

In all fairness to Steve Cross and A. Spalding these individuals are clueless when it comes to the rating system. My knowledge after speaking with these players is that someone else signed them up and rated them in. They were just out having fun no harm intended. Good people! Steve is back teaching tennis and Austin is playing his first year at Campbellsville University with Steve being his Assist. Coach. As a matter of fact both may be in AL. next year playing a little summer tennis. Now with S. Cross and T. Meckes on the singles courts and a few others who knows. Throw ole' Austin in the mix with a few Al. players who knows we just might be singin' Ole Kentucky Home or Sweet Home Alabama Again REAL SOON. It's been a pleasure talkin to you boys you all come back now hear. One Bear gone South for the winter to play a little tennis. Merry Christmas and have a better New Year- because the Bear and Team Match Point most certainly WILL.

I think I'm sorry I even asked. Nevertheless, congrats on y'alls National Championship. Appears to have been well-earned both on and off the court! Enjoy your hibernation!

Pompitous of Love
11-04-2010, 08:17 AM
Thanks for the info BB. And thanks for policing the Ford team after they slipped by the rest of us.
Congratulations on the long run this year, enjoy the championship!.

Bama Bear
11-08-2010, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the info BB. And thanks for policing the Ford team after they slipped by the rest of us.
Congratulations on the long run this year, enjoy the championship!.

Yo POL shoot me an email sometime. I got word on the Spaulding/Cross DQ'S this morning.
mst6415@aol.com

goober
11-09-2010, 08:27 AM
In all fairness to Steve Cross and A. Spalding these individuals are clueless when it comes to the rating system. My knowledge after speaking with these players is that someone else signed them up and rated them in. They were just out having fun no harm intended. Good people! Steve is back teaching tennis and Austin is playing his first year at Campbellsville University with Steve being his Assist. Coach. .

Are you saying that a teaching pro is clueless about the NTRP rating system? I find that very difficult to believe. I have yet to meet a teaching pro anywhere who was not familiar with something as basic as the USTA rating system. He probably has a lot of students who are 3.5 and 4.0 and he knows he is way better than them. Sure somebody else may have signed him up. I would bet that he was very aware and simply went along with it because they were his buds. He might be a nice person and just out to have fun, but playing "the clueless" card for someone in his position doesn't seem fair.

Lazerus
11-09-2010, 08:35 AM
Congrats to the 4.0 teaching pro usta champs.

Great resume builder for sure!

I didn't know rednecks played tennis btw?!?!

Matt H.
11-10-2010, 12:42 PM
if you're trying to register under a different name and acquire a new and different USTA membership #....you're doing it for a purpose. That purpose is to cheat the rankings. Period.


My local club went to Nationals in '06 and I spoke with a couple of guys on the FL team that went this year. Both stories were the same.....the vast majority of guys calling themselves "4.0" were simply not. Even a few young guys brash enough walking around the grounds in their college uniforms/gear.

Bama Bear
11-10-2010, 02:54 PM
Thanks for the info BB. And thanks for policing the Ford team after they slipped by the rest of us.
Congratulations on the long run this year, enjoy the championship!. By the way POL I will be speaking with u this weekend. Whoever is representing their state at the Southern Sectional Combo tournament in March beware. Alabama's 8.5 is loaded with 2 pro circuit players and 6 underrated players. Have been playing at the same NTRP since 2006. Holly Goddard the Southern Sectional Coordinator turns a deaf ear and blind ear to all- believe that. Most of the women coordinators are clueless when it pertains to what is really going on with the men in USTA TENNIS. I know it and most of the men know it. We need COORDINATORS for the women and COORDINATORS FOR THE MEN. These women are truly clueless of whats happening in NTRP TENNIS--BELIEVE THAT!

Bama Bear
11-10-2010, 03:36 PM
if you're trying to register under a different name and acquire a new and different USTA membership #....you're doing it for a purpose. That purpose is to cheat the rankings. Period.


My local club went to Nationals in '06 and I spoke with a couple of guys on the FL team that went this year. Both stories were the same.....the vast majority of guys calling themselves "4.0" were simply not. Even a few young guys brash enough walking around the grounds in their college uniforms/gear. Matt, ask your FL. buds about the singles players from the Caribbean>Strong 4.5--5.0 players. Div. 1 or 2. Actually what is needed is a USTA PLAYERS ASSOC. The players pay the price physically and financially to participate in usta tennis but yet have basically no say so. We have over 2500 players @ the adult and sectional tournaments in Mobile AL. Thousands of dollars are pumped into the local economy by the players their families and friends. We play for pride and the USTA ORGANIZATION plays for MONEY! Just for starters multiply 2500 x 25.00 entry fee=62,500.00. Its time the players start getting more than a 99.00 discounted hotel room. To participate in the AL. state Adult tournament on average it cost each player approx. 500.00 apiece excluding entry fee. On average 10 players per team. Lets be fair and say 4000.00 per team (travel, hotel eats etc.) 2.5----4.5 average 40 teams combined. 160,000.00> Nationals expect close to 1000.00 apiece for Air fare, hotels, rental cars, eats etc. Tucson and USTA you did pretty well wish I could say the same for the PLAYERS THE SOLE REASON ALL OF THIS EXSIST-Don't ever forget that COORDINATORS-The only reason you have a job is because of the SHOW! And the PLAYERS ARE THE SHOW! Now what about it POL this BEAR NEVER HIBERNATES. I want whats best for the players, the city and organization. Its time to vote for Coordinators and for the Southern Tennis Players Association too!

tennis_tater
11-10-2010, 08:15 PM
By the way POL I will be speaking with u this weekend. Whoever is representing their state at the Southern Sectional Combo tournament in March beware. Alabama's 8.5 is loaded with 2 pro circuit players and 6 underrated players. Have been playing at the same NTRP since 2006. Holly Goddard the Southern Sectional Coordinator turns a deaf ear and blind ear to all- believe that. Most of the women coordinators are clueless when it pertains to what is really going on with the men in USTA TENNIS. I know it and most of the men know it. We need COORDINATORS for the women and COORDINATORS FOR THE MEN. These women are truly clueless of whats happening in NTRP TENNIS--BELIEVE THAT!

Well, didn't Southern's DQ all of those Kentucky people your 4.0 team filed grievances against?

That aside, we've had our own issues with inconsistent rulings from the Southern Section office.

And it looks like Bama's 8.5 champ had their captain DQ'd to 5.0 - after the finals maybe??? And despite all of those ringers, the ringer team won the championship, with a 5.0 player, by winning 2 courts in third set 10 pt tiebreakers. Must have been a loaded runner-up team with a bunch of "under-rated" players as well.

sunshinez
11-12-2010, 06:51 PM
I know 2 people in this picture and both are very good for league tennis. If you look at the total numbers that play league tennis
there is a small percentage that are the problem.

Ennismt
11-13-2010, 04:24 PM
I know 2 people in this picture and both are very good for league tennis. If you look at the total numbers that play league tennis
there is a small percentage that are the problem.


small in number but large in impact...

Z-Man
11-16-2010, 07:36 PM
By the way POL I will be speaking with u this weekend. Whoever is representing their state at the Southern Sectional Combo tournament in March beware. Alabama's 8.5 is loaded with 2 pro circuit players and 6 underrated players. Have been playing at the same NTRP since 2006. Holly Goddard the Southern Sectional Coordinator turns a deaf ear and blind ear to all- believe that. Most of the women coordinators are clueless when it pertains to what is really going on with the men in USTA TENNIS. I know it and most of the men know it. We need COORDINATORS for the women and COORDINATORS FOR THE MEN. These women are truly clueless of whats happening in NTRP TENNIS--BELIEVE THAT!

Bama Bear:
I just did some scouting, and you're right, the Alabama 8.5 champs are quite a team. I will be representing GA at 8.5 sectionals, so hopefully we will be in the same group with these guys. It would be awesome to play a former pro or a former Bollettieri coach. Maybe they can give me some tips while they beat me like a drum.

wvtennis
11-17-2010, 08:08 AM
The USTA really needs to figure out a way to police the people who only play Combo. We run into this problem every year. There are guys who dominate at Combo, dont lose any matches, and never get bumped. Looks like this team you are talking about is just like that. Alot of these guys only play Combo. Ill be there for the 8.5 Kentucky team, should be interesting.

tennis_tater
11-17-2010, 05:11 PM
The USTA really needs to figure out a way to police the people who only play Combo. We run into this problem every year. There are guys who dominate at Combo, dont lose any matches, and never get bumped. Looks like this team you are talking about is just like that. Alot of these guys only play Combo. Ill be there for the 8.5 Kentucky team, should be interesting.

Looks like the Alabama team is basically the same team that has been to the finals of sectionals the last two years and finished second in their bracket three years ago. Guess the playing combo only allows them to have the same team, year after year, playing in the same division. At some point, you would think they might want to try 9.5.

Angle Queen
11-18-2010, 09:21 AM
I've been following this thread for awhile, mostly just rolling my eyes at all the back-n-forths. But after reading most recently about the Southern Combo stuff, I went looking myself. After giving up in disgust to get to the Southern website thru usta.com, I did the Google thing and very quickly ended up on the Combo doubles website (scary...they have their own domain for it).

But it didn't take me long to fume...when I ran across this "note" at the bottom of the "Welcome" page:

Any player's NTRP Rating that has been double-bumped must play at the middle level. (For example, a 3.0 player on your roster has a published Year-end rating of 4.0). Captains are responsible for going to find a rating in Tennislink, checking team rosters and notifying your State League Coordinator if you have a team player that has been double-bumped. Matches will revert to losses if players are ineligible.
source: http://www.southerncombo.com/

What BS is it...that it is up to the captains to police the tournament?!?! On double bumps, for goodness sakes. USTA knows exactly who those players are AND if they (or their teams) qualified for the championships. Ridiculous. It's bad enough that the section finals are played months after the completion of each districts' finals and after the year-end ratings come out. Why bother?

Not my section (so sorry for picking on it) but it brings to light many of the things wrong with the whole "league" setup. In my spare (LOL) time, I'll be writing formal complaints to the folks at Nationals where I'm sure they'll fall on...deaf ears. As usual.

Are you listening, Billie Jean?

JoelDali
11-18-2010, 09:55 AM
Are you listening, Billie Jean?

In her Book, Billie Jean, she actually goes in depth explaining the origins and concepts of sandbagging and how it destroys not only the game but families of the players involved as well. Good reading.

http://www.mwpromotions.com/ZENcart/images/Large/VC0149.jpg

Z-Man
11-18-2010, 04:42 PM
I've been following this thread for awhile, mostly just rolling my eyes at all the back-n-forths. But after reading most recently about the Southern Combo stuff, I went looking myself. After giving up in disgust to get to the Southern website thru usta.com, I did the Google thing and very quickly ended up on the Combo doubles website (scary...they have their own domain for it).

But it didn't take me long to fume...when I ran across this "note" at the bottom of the "Welcome" page:


source: http://www.southerncombo.com/

What BS is it...that it is up to the captains to police the tournament?!?! On double bumps, for goodness sakes. USTA knows exactly who those players are AND if they (or their teams) qualified for the championships. Ridiculous. It's bad enough that the section finals are played months after the completion of each districts' finals and after the year-end ratings come out. Why bother?

Not my section (so sorry for picking on it) but it brings to light many of the things wrong with the whole "league" setup. In my spare (LOL) time, I'll be writing formal complaints to the folks at Nationals where I'm sure they'll fall on...deaf ears. As usual.

Are you listening, Billie Jean?

All of that worries me a lot less than the prospect of playing against an 8.5 team with a 5.0 player who played some low-level pro tennis and a 4.5 who coached him when he was at Bollettieri. That same 4.5 told a newspaper some stories about coaching Agassi and Courier and hitting with Sampras. These guys are older now, but it's a little silly that they will be playing against someone like me who struggled to make a high school tennis team. That said, they better watch out, because I'm going to come with both guns blazing...

Bama Bear
11-19-2010, 06:07 AM
All of that worries me a lot less than the prospect of playing against an 8.5 team with a 5.0 player who played some low-level pro tennis and a 4.5 who coached him when he was at Bollettieri. That same 4.5 told a newspaper some stories about coaching Agassi and Courier and hitting with Sampras. These guys are older now, but it's a little silly that they will be playing against someone like me who struggled to make a high school tennis team. That said, they better watch out, because I'm going to come with both guns blazing... Hey Z I'm glad ur bringing ur guns. The boys from Tinsel town will be bringing basooka's. Good luck my friend. Better yet contact your State Coordinator. See what kind of BS reply you get from Him/Her.

Bama Bear
11-19-2010, 06:13 AM
I know 2 people in this picture and both are very good for league tennis. If you look at the total numbers that play league tennis
there is a small percentage that are the problem. Ok Sunshine I agree. Why is it then that the local, state or even sectional coordinators don't intervene and act on this problem$$$$$$$$$$$?

Angle Queen
11-19-2010, 06:29 AM
All of that worries me a lot less than the prospect of playing against an 8.5 team with a 5.0 player who played some low-level pro tennis and a 4.5 who coached him when he was at Bollettieri. That same 4.5 told a newspaper some stories about coaching Agassi and Courier and hitting with Sampras. These guys are older now, but it's a little silly that they will be playing against someone like me who struggled to make a high school tennis team. That said, they better watch out, because I'm going to come with both guns blazing...I agree Z-man. I'm with ya on the prospect of having to play that team's lineup. I initially went looking...to find that Southern team...and that lead to some more of my frustrations with trying to navigate each Section's website...as well as tennislink. I had to guess numerous times to eventually land at Alabama's Districts championship levels. There's gotta be a better way to organize the data.

Good luck to those involved in that Combo event next March. Should be some interesting competition. I find it encouraging that, rather than whining about the situation, you're pumped...to take 'em on!

SmackDown
11-25-2010, 10:15 PM
All of that worries me a lot less than the prospect of playing against an 8.5 team with a 5.0 player who played some low-level pro tennis and a 4.5 who coached him when he was at Bollettieri. That same 4.5 told a newspaper some stories about coaching Agassi and Courier and hitting with Sampras. These guys are older now, but it's a little silly that they will be playing against someone like me who struggled to make a high school tennis team. That said, they better watch out, because I'm going to come with both guns blazing...

Z-man -

The best court on this team is the captain(MDR) and his partner. The captain
is a self-rated 4.0 who is really a 5.0 and his partner is a very strong 4.5.

The former Bolleteiri coach and satellite player (CR) plays with an extremely
good self-rated 4.0 who was a highly ranked junior player.

The former pro 5.0 with world ranking (PV) plays with a 3.5 who is really a low level 4.5.

We took them to two 3rd set tiebreakers in the finals of the Alabama 8.5 combo - but that was only because we had the best 4.0's (TM, WR, HP) off the Alabama team that won the
4.0 nationals.

GOOD LUCK - you will need it.

These players *never* move up because the only thing they play is combo, so they never generate computer ratings.

They only have 1-2 computer rated players on the entire team.

Every court is really a 9.5 court at least.

They seriously upgraded this team from last year - two of the 4.0's who played in last years sectionals final are not even good enough to play in the starting lineup this year.

Z-Man
11-26-2010, 04:58 AM
Wow, thanks for the scouting report. That team is a doozy. What's with Alabama this year? You need a pretty loaded team to get out of the Georgia state tournament, but none of the teams we played had self rated players or former pros. Should be fun to play them. When I play better players it always teaches me a lot about my own game and what I need to improve. That said, be warned--if we beat these guys TW may never hear the end of it!

gplracer
11-26-2010, 06:36 PM
if you're trying to register under a different name and acquire a new and different USTA membership #....you're doing it for a purpose. That purpose is to cheat the rankings. Period.


My local club went to Nationals in '06 and I spoke with a couple of guys on the FL team that went this year. Both stories were the same.....the vast majority of guys calling themselves "4.0" were simply not. Even a few young guys brash enough walking around the grounds in their college uniforms/gear.

I was under the impression that if you played division 1 or possibly division 2 tennis you could not rate at 4.0 while you play college tennis and for several years after that. I thought the lowest rating you could get was 5.0. Seems like there is a USTA rule some where that talks about that.

JLyon
11-29-2010, 06:45 AM
5.0 is not much different than 4.0 level as far as politics. I had a player who walked on at SEC school and would fit nicely at 5.0, but gets appealed to 5.5, while another team has a D1 All-American with a self-rate 5.0 and a TN Team had a recent Graduate who was #100 in D1.
The questionaire is the problem and forcing the captains to be the NARCs

tennis_tater
01-31-2011, 01:46 PM
I saw on a website that the sections was in March. Didn't know if that was an error on the website as I seem to recall sectionals always being in January in the past. I know some in this thread have indicated that they will be playing in the tournament. Did this already take place?

Z-Man
01-31-2011, 07:35 PM
8.5 combo southern sectionals hasn't happened yet--it's the first week of March in Mobile.

tennis_tater
05-24-2011, 11:32 AM
Just curious what Team Alabama looks like this year. Any guys stay a 4.0 from last year's National Champ team? They going to make another run through Sectionals/Nationals?