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TheRebelofPrince
10-26-2010, 09:20 AM
my eagnas hyper 60 wont let me string polys and then with syn gut the tension is way off wtf do i do!!!

Irvin
10-26-2010, 10:22 AM
Why won't your Eagnas let you string poly?

Irvin

Radicalized
10-27-2010, 05:30 AM
Yeah, you're going to need to elaborate.

Donny0627
10-27-2010, 12:13 PM
Yeah, you're going to need to elaborate.

yea thats the only way we can help you

TheRebelofPrince
10-27-2010, 12:38 PM
like i after i wrap the string up and go to tension, it wont like go. idk

dgdawg
10-27-2010, 12:59 PM
like i after i wrap the string up and go to tension, it wont like go. idk

Dude...like...what do you actually mean...like

Kyle7286
10-27-2010, 01:04 PM
lol... ok.

Figure out exactly what your problem is and figure out how to explain it to us.

All of us will help you once we understand what the issue is.

Is sounds like you are having issues pulling a poly string.. but it could be due to many variables (Clamps, Usererror, Machine Defect etc..)

Narrow it down.. read your manuals that came with the machine. And also call your manufacturer.

coachrick
10-27-2010, 01:04 PM
I don't know nuthin' 'bout no Eagnas 60, but if it's a drop weight, you just need to start the weight at 2 o'clock or so since the poly has so little give...think of it as Kevlar when you place the string in or around the gripper(slack, in other words) so the weight moves from 2-3 o'clock or thereabouts.

Irvin
10-27-2010, 03:24 PM
like i after i wrap the string up and go to tension, it wont like go. idk

The Eagnas Hyper 60 is a drop weight with a linear gripper. You don't wrap the string in a linear gripper. And it won't like go? Have you asked the stringer if it really wants to go? IS this the stringer you have or do you have any idea?

http://www.eagnas.com/jpg2/hy60a2.jpg

Irvin

Irvin
10-27-2010, 03:27 PM
I am thinking that maybe the OP has no idea of how to use a drop weight stringer. Because the poly is so stiff and the arm will not drop as far as it does with a syn gut he is confused. If that is the case that is normal.

Irvin

coachrick
10-27-2010, 03:37 PM
And it won't like go? Have you asked the stringer if it really wants to go?

http://www.eagnas.com/jpg2/hy60a2.jpg

Irvin

You funny! :)

TheRebelofPrince
10-27-2010, 03:46 PM
yeah im use to a babolat star 5 but now i use a eagnas hyper 60 and wondering why it wudnt pull polys

bugeyed
10-27-2010, 03:55 PM
[QUOTE=TheRebelofPrince;5148623]yeah im use to a babolat star 5 but now i use a eagnas hyper 60 and wondering why it wudnt pull polys[/QUOTE

You should probably just get rid of that machine.

Cheers,
kev

Radicalized
10-27-2010, 07:24 PM
Right now I'm playing, Led Zeppelin - Communication Breakdown.

Just so you know, this company has had many issues with its machines, including tensioning.

But I'll try to generalize.

For proper tension, (which you can check) you need the complete weight (both sections). How do you know syn. gut tension is way off? Lots of issues can affect that.

Wipe down your polys in the event they are slick. Check the linear gripper and be sure it will be tight enough for the gauge when you run the sting through it. I'm sure there is the possibility of slippage.

As noted above, polys don't really stretch. If you put the string in the gripper of a dropweight when the arm is in the "up" position, and try to drop it, you may only get it to vertical or not much more. Try to make adjustments to drop the arm from, let's say, 45 deg. or so to start out. I don't know that particular machine to say. That may be your issue with, as you wrote, "wont let me string polys."

You may have to make machine adjustments between using polys and syn. gut. Angle the arm over first, as noted, and then set the gripper to grab the string. Then drop.

And I have no idea what the OP means by "after I wrap the string up." Wrap? The model # you gave, the Hyper 60, has a linear gripper with the dropweight. There is no drum, like some machines, to do any wrapping.

JavierLW
10-27-2010, 08:48 PM
Just so you know, this company has had many issues with its machines, including tensioning.



Really? Where did you hear that from? The usual scatter of comments from people who do not even own a Eagnas?

It's a dropweight, there isnt much that can go wrong with tensioning.

It's likely the simple fact that he had a electronic machine and was used to just sticking the string on a gripper and hitting the button and now he has a dropweight and doesnt know how to string poly on it because like you said he needs to hold the weight closer to horizontal because poly does not stretch as much as other strings. He'll have that issue with any dropweight.

technoob10
10-27-2010, 11:42 PM
Here, try this video from topanlego http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adMW3mARDV4

Radicalized
10-28-2010, 06:14 AM
Really? Where did you hear that from? The usual scatter of comments from people who do not even own a Eagnas?


From the scattering of people who do. This isn't the only place for info in the world. I've been around a while, if not a member of the forum. It is simply a blanket comment covering the fact there could be issues beyond his control. The information is only a general response to his attempt to communicate the apparent lack of the ability for the machine to work for him (or perhaps just his ability to operate it). It was not an attempt to evaluate specific quality control issues with certain foreign-made products.

Given the glut of Eagnas models at seemingly low prices, one looking at this board would think the American distributor would at least attempt to give itself a better face, if only for those posting on boards like this, who do have some sway with buyers searching the web regarding machines.

JavierLW
10-28-2010, 08:09 AM
From the scattering of people who do. This isn't the only place for info in the world. I've been around a while, if not a member of the forum. It is simply a blanket comment covering the fact there could be issues beyond his control. The information is only a general response to his attempt to communicate the apparent lack of the ability for the machine to work for him (or perhaps just his ability to operate it). It was not an attempt to evaluate specific quality control issues with certain foreign-made products.

Given the glut of Eagnas models at seemingly low prices, one looking at this board would think the American distributor would at least attempt to give itself a better face, if only for those posting on boards like this, who do have some sway with buyers searching the web regarding machines.

This is aside from this guy's problem. (which again is that he doesnt know how to string poly on a dropweight)

But I doubt you KNOW that anyone is having tensioning issues. Especially by the simple fact that IT'S A DROPWEIGHT. It's not like you calibrate it or anything.

I just bought a machine from them with many of the same features and having never strung a racquet, Ive been able to string 5 already in a few days. It worked fine.

Im glad I didnt waste the extra $200-$300.

Apparently you'd just bought into the general rant about customer service in general, your final comment shows that.

This forum is better served by people who have honest experiences with products so buyers can make an informed decision, not by people who just spread what they've heard with no experience of their own with a product.

And again I have very good comprehension so it's not a communication issue to me, he's trying to pull Poly just like you would a multi and he's noticing that it wont stretch enough to drop the weight anywhere near horizontal.

Given that he has a linear gripper, that's the normal thing you would try to do given how that thing works and that he likely isnt aware of how a dropweight works with poly.

And I will be honest I do suspect that even if you know what you are doing, the linear gripper may make the job a bit harder the the rotational one with Poly, because you have to hold the string in it until it drops down. So while you are setting the string, you have to hold the weight in place with the other hand (so it doesnt fall down). That might be kind of cumbersome compared to the rotational kind where I imagine you just wrap the string around it and put it in the jaws while holding the weight.

Radicalized
10-28-2010, 08:55 AM
The poly issue has been addressed already as you have noted regarding the position of the arm when using polys because of the lack of stretch.

I never planned to debate over Eagnas. It is MAXLINE's wallet. The issue I addressed in the previous post is not about what I believe, but a perception in general, regardless of reality--and I'm not addressing that now, that affects sales. And where dropweights have had issues, for example, have been with mislabeled/marked bars or grippers that don't hold for whatever reason. It was one sentence for one's general consideration. One can't assume mechanical perfection.

All I expected from the OP was a direct explanation of what he is doing that makes him feel this way about the poly. There is no point of forum members playing a guessing game. Also, he still has not explained what makes him think the tension on his synthetic gut is way off.

All I ever hope for from a poster is some decent grammar/syntax to start out with, and hopefully, the issue addressed in as much detail as possible. One can do better than, "my eagnas hyper 60 wont let me string polys."

JavierLW
10-28-2010, 09:20 AM
The poly issue has been addressed already as you have noted regarding the position of the arm when using polys because of the lack of stretch.

I never planned to debate over Eagnas. It is MAXLINE's wallet. The issue I addressed in the previous post is not about what I believe, but a perception in general, regardless of reality--and I'm not addressing that now, that affects sales. And where dropweights have had issues, for example, have been with mislabeled/marked bars or grippers that don't hold for whatever reason. It was one sentence for one's general consideration. One can't assume mechanical perfection.

All I expected from the OP was a direct explanation of what he is doing that makes him feel this way about the poly. There is no point of forum members playing a guessing game. Also, he still has not explained what makes him think the tension on his synthetic gut is way off.

All I ever hope for from a poster is some decent grammar/syntax to start out with, and hopefully, the issue addressed in as much detail as possible. One can do better than, "my eagnas hyper 60 wont let me string polys."

Well too bad, you should be careful about what you say then. You wrote a very good post but you choose to throw one line in there that obviously you really have no firsthand knowledge about. Which only really confuses the issue.

You say you dont want to play a guessing game, yet you wrote a post where you threw every idea out there possible including ones that you dont know anything about.

And he didn't say anything about synthetic gut tension being way off at least not in this thread.

Im glad you admit that what you said is just perception. That's the problem, intelligent buyers want to know reality, they dont care about general perception so you shouldn't spread rumor's about things that you don't know anything about.

It's kind of frustrating that anytime anyone either has an Eagnas or asks about one, a bunch of know-it-alls have to sit and quote on the basis of "perception".

And that makes that one comment you made NOT helpful in any way whatsoever since after all this guy HAS boughten an Eagnas and you have no idea if they really have a tensioning issue or not.

Irvin
10-28-2010, 10:24 AM
...
And he didn't say anything about synthetic gut tension being way off at least not in this thread...


Sorry but I believe he did

my eagnas hyper 60 wont let me string polys and then with syn gut the tension is way off wtf do i do!!!

Irvin

JavierLW
10-28-2010, 10:37 AM
Sorry but I believe he did



Irvin

Ah, I missed that part. I guess we dont know why he thinks it's off though.

Irvin
10-28-2010, 11:11 AM
^^ It is a little frustrating when you try to help someone and they can't or won't communicate with you. But there are usually reasons for everything that happens. Some good and some not so good. As far as why it is off I thought that maybe he felt poly and syn gut should stretch the same amount.

Irvin

JavierLW
10-28-2010, 11:32 AM
^^ As far as why it is off I thought that maybe he felt poly and syn gut should stretch the same amount.

Irvin

That's what I figured as well.

topanlego
10-28-2010, 12:16 PM
Here, try this video from topanlego http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adMW3mARDV4

That's what I was going to say.

Radicalized
10-28-2010, 12:47 PM
You say you dont want to play a guessing game, yet you wrote a post where you threw every idea out there possible including ones that you dont know anything about.


That is B.S. It's called troubleshooting. You take a problem (what info is available, anyway) and try to break it down into possible solutions.

And he didn't say anything about synthetic gut tension being way off at least not in this thread.


Already addressed.


It's kind of frustrating that anytime anyone either has an Eagnas or asks about one, a bunch of know-it-alls have to sit and quote on the basis of "perception".

And that makes that one comment you made NOT helpful in any way whatsoever since after all this guy HAS boughten an Eagnas and you have no idea if they really have a tensioning issue or not.

You missed the point about perception and to what that comment pertained. Why are you so wrapped up in Eagnas? You say, "I just bought a machine from them with many of the same features and having never strung a racquet, Ive been able to string 5 already in a few days. It worked fine." I'd say that is limited in itself. Eagnas can defend itself. Have you ever read Eagnas' brilliant (and comical) FAQs pages?

The comment is perfectly helpful if there happened to be any mechanical problem for which he would need "customer service."

And my intention was not to hijack the thread, ladies and gentlemen of the forum.

JavierLW
10-28-2010, 01:44 PM
That is B.S. It's called troubleshooting. You take a problem (what info is available, anyway) and try to break it down into possible solutions.



I use troubleshooting all the time, what you are doing is what amounts to what is someone's usual poor attempt at it.

Step one is to figure out what's going on. Not to just throw out every random idea out there. That's what people do when they truly have no clue where their audience even is. It would be better just to continue to demand that you receive some sort of understandable coherent description of the problem.

I didn't miss the point on perception, you keep making it more and more obvious as to what it is.

And I have read their FAQ's, and I saw that stuff probably 10 years ago when he put it on there. They are comical, but back then the Internet was a lot different and it wasn't meant as necessarily some form of great advertising.

That entire website stinks of 1999 style websites, it's funny when you click to purchase something it pulls up a more modern looking one but they didnt replace the original.

Just because it made you blush, and you feel it's negative, doesn't say anything about the actual machines themselves.

If anything the people that he quotes in those things look foolish just as much as he did, that's why he put them there. Whether that's really good marketing or not is another story, but again that says nothing about the quality of their machines.

(and maybe plenty of their machines are bad, but it would be good to hear that from people that have bought them, not from people that engage in hearsay, or "perception")

Radicalized
10-28-2010, 02:35 PM
Look, I hope everyone's machine works well. I have no vested interest in any stringer manufacturer. The OP came up with two additional posts with limited info. Therefore, I described some possible issues. Maybe one would ring a bell without further consideration by the OP. And if not, there are plenty of other posters to get a better result.

Sorry, I don't log every time I run into a negative issue surrounding a product or company.

Even if the machines were to be great, the company has issues. When the Better Business Bureau (regardless of issues that may surround its validity) hands you an "F," that doesn't bode well. It becomes the truth to the consumer.

If you wish to hear from people who bought from them, there is a thread.

I enjoyed our trite joust. Have a good day.

JavierLW
10-28-2010, 05:03 PM
I went on the BBB website and you can do more then just look at the grade. He has a F because he didnt respond to 7 complaints. They could of been silly complaints for all we know.

You did read the website, you can see how many people out there ask him for things that he simply does not provide, like measuring parts for machines that they did not buy etc... That's the whole reason he made that silly site.
If they are so horrible then why are these people asking him for this in the first place, obviously Gamma will not measure their parts if you want to buy something for an Eagnas machine....

But again at least you admit you dont know anything about their machines, you are just applying to hearsay, perception, and your own personal feelings about the company's poor marketing or customer service. Hardly any of those are of help to someone who's actually trying to use a machine that they already bought...

It was fun....

dgdawg
10-29-2010, 05:36 AM
I went on the BBB website and you can do more then just look at the grade. He has a F because he didnt respond to 7 complaints. They could of been silly complaints for all we know.

You did read the website, you can see how many people out there ask him for things that he simply does not provide, like measuring parts for machines that they did not buy etc... That's the whole reason he made that silly site.
If they are so horrible then why are these people asking him for this in the first place, obviously Gamma will not measure their parts if you want to buy something for an Eagnas machine....

But again at least you admit you dont know anything about their machines, you are just applying to hearsay, perception, and your own personal feelings about the company's poor marketing or customer service. Hardly any of those are of help to someone who's actually trying to use a machine that they already bought...

It was fun....

Javi-I think this thread is getting WAY off topic. I can tell you from experience, Victor (Eagnas) doesn't give a Rats Azz about his customers or anyone trying to purchase Eagnas parts.
I've spoken to him a dozen times or more. He's a nice enough guy, but he doesn't care!
I've owned 2 SP machines, an Eagnas Comet 11, built and Alpha Equinox, and now my current machine. The Comet and Equinox APPEARED to have the exact same tables, till you actually saw them up close and used them. NO comparison. Mark @ Alpha spent a crap ton of time on the phone with me BEFORE I even spent any money on Alpha. He even suggested maybe Alpha wasn't the machine for me!!
Vic, on the other hand, flat out told me, quote: "you're an idiot to spend more for the same thing. It's your money, man" end quote.
Ha ha....OK. It was a $600 mistake.
Ppl ask him for his parts because they're 1/2 the cost of anyone else's parts.
You specifically mentioned Gamma not measuring there parts for a competitors machine. NOT TRUE!!!!
I hated the clamp bases on my Comet. I called Brett @ ATS (a Gamma Rep) trying to get a decent CB for the Comet. He went out of his way to measure AND email me a spec sheet on 2 diff Gamma clamp bases to use on my Comet. (they wouldn't work)
I scrapped the Comet, built the Equinox, and then bought a Star 5.
So...I'm not trying to be disrespectful...AND, with all due respect to you, my friend, I think you, as well, are commenting on things you really don't know much about. (I say this in all sincerity!!)
A lot of other machine company rep.'s were willing to sell me their parts full well knowing the part wasn't for their machine. Vic (Eagnas) won't.

Lets kill this "off topic" discussion and get back to helping.

Back on topic: poly's shouldn't tension any differently than any other string, poly's just have less elasticity. I have to think the OP just needs to factor that in, and adjust the d/w arm/clutch to accommodate for this.

JavierLW
10-29-2010, 06:51 AM
Javi-I think this thread is getting WAY off topic. I can tell you from experience, Victor (Eagnas) doesn't give a Rats Azz about his customers or anyone trying to purchase Eagnas parts.
I've spoken to him a dozen times or more. He's a nice enough guy, but he doesn't care!
I've owned 2 SP machines, an Eagnas Comet 11, built and Alpha Equinox, and now my current machine. The Comet and Equinox APPEARED to have the exact same tables, till you actually saw them up close and used them. NO comparison. Mark @ Alpha spent a crap ton of time on the phone with me BEFORE I even spent any money on Alpha. He even suggested maybe Alpha wasn't the machine for me!!
Vic, on the other hand, flat out told me, quote: "you're an idiot to spend more for the same thing. It's your money, man" end quote.
Ha ha....OK. It was a $600 mistake.
Ppl ask him for his parts because they're 1/2 the cost of anyone else's parts.
You specifically mentioned Gamma not measuring there parts for a competitors machine. NOT TRUE!!!!
I hated the clamp bases on my Comet. I called Brett @ ATS (a Gamma Rep) trying to get a decent CB for the Comet. He went out of his way to measure AND email me a spec sheet on 2 diff Gamma clamp bases to use on my Comet. (they wouldn't work)
I scrapped the Comet, built the Equinox, and then bought a Star 5.
So...I'm not trying to be disrespectful...AND, with all due respect to you, my friend, I think you, as well, are commenting on things you really don't know much about. (I say this in all sincerity!!)
A lot of other machine company rep.'s were willing to sell me their parts full well knowing the part wasn't for their machine. Vic (Eagnas) won't.

Lets kill this "off topic" discussion and get back to helping.

Back on topic: poly's shouldn't tension any differently than any other string, poly's just have less elasticity. I have to think the OP just needs to factor that in, and adjust the d/w arm/clutch to accommodate for this.

Well the topic wasnt going anywhere anyway, the guy cant explain his issue. (although I think you and I both agree on what his issue is)

At least you have some first hand experience, thank you for that.

But still, he doesnt have to sell or measure anything, that's not really the basis for suggesting that the machines are broken or do not operate correctly. (did your machine actually work, other then you didnt like the table??)

So maybe he is hard to deal with and and his people skills are horrible? That doesnt mean that we need people throwing information out there that they dont have experience with. (that they have tensioning issues or whatever....)

That's not useful for the consumer because a lot of us do not care about that, we just want to buy something that works that is affordable.

If we have people on here that have actually bought one and they say they cant string a racquet with it or it's broken that would be more useful then this other guy who's spouting off about "perception".

Thanks for the story though, that was good information to know.

I just bought one like I said with many of the same features as this guy's, and it seems to work just fine for what Im doing with it.

Although they seem to have a LOT of different models with the same features and I am unclear as to what the difference really is from their own website.

pvaudio
11-03-2010, 09:31 PM
This is aside from this guy's problem. (which again is that he doesnt know how to string poly on a dropweight)

But I doubt you KNOW that anyone is having tensioning issues. Especially by the simple fact that IT'S A DROPWEIGHT. It's not like you calibrate it or anything.

I just bought a machine from them with many of the same features and having never strung a racquet, Ive been able to string 5 already in a few days. It worked fine.

Im glad I didnt waste the extra $200-$300.

Apparently you'd just bought into the general rant about customer service in general, your final comment shows that.

This forum is better served by people who have honest experiences with products so buyers can make an informed decision, not by people who just spread what they've heard with no experience of their own with a product.

And again I have very good comprehension so it's not a communication issue to me, he's trying to pull Poly just like you would a multi and he's noticing that it wont stretch enough to drop the weight anywhere near horizontal.

Given that he has a linear gripper, that's the normal thing you would try to do given how that thing works and that he likely isnt aware of how a dropweight works with poly.

And I will be honest I do suspect that even if you know what you are doing, the linear gripper may make the job a bit harder the the rotational one with Poly, because you have to hold the string in it until it drops down. So while you are setting the string, you have to hold the weight in place with the other hand (so it doesnt fall down). That might be kind of cumbersome compared to the rotational kind where I imagine you just wrap the string around it and put it in the jaws while holding the weight.
I learned on and own (my sister is using it for herself and her friends back at home while she goes to med school) an Eagnas 940. I even spent $200 on the upgraded clamp bases which I admit was a complete waste of money. Even then, going from a crank machine to that to something like a Gamma Progression ST II or an Alpha Revo 4000 and it's like stepping into a different world of quality. The fit and finish are just so much better (the finish especially, but that isn't really that critical) even though the "value" may be higher.

I'm now using a Silent Partner Aria so I can fully appreciate the difference between a higher end machine and a middle road machine which is what the 940 is (price aside). With all of the same features in consideration (tensioner is excluded obviously as one is a crank and one is a constant-pull electric), the two simply do not compare. The turntable on the SP is smoother. The clamps grip better with less pressure. The clamp bases are not only sturdier, but do not need to be calibrated after every 12 pulls. The guide rails are like butter. The mounting system is another discussion altogether even though both are 6 point (the Eagnas does not allow 360deg clearance of the stick over the tensioner), the SP is in a different category.

The same can be said of all of the other analogous crank machines from the likes of Gamma, Alpha and Prince. You are paying more because you are getting a higher quality good. The stringer makes the stringjob a good one, not the stringing machine. However, a stringer with a higher quality machine will always do better work for if not because of actual stringjob quality, but because it just takes less effort and he/she can work just that much more efficiently.

dancraig
11-03-2010, 09:44 PM
"Can't string poly".
That's what I feel like saying to customers.:rolleyes:

Irvin
11-04-2010, 03:24 AM
^^ Now why didn't I think of that. LOL

Irvin

JavierLW
11-04-2010, 05:58 AM
I learned on and own (my sister is using it for herself and her friends back at home while she goes to med school) an Eagnas 940. I even spent $200 on the upgraded clamp bases which I admit was a complete waste of money. Even then, going from a crank machine to that to something like a Gamma Progression ST II or an Alpha Revo 4000 and it's like stepping into a different world of quality. The fit and finish are just so much better (the finish especially, but that isn't really that critical) even though the "value" may be higher.

I'm now using a Silent Partner Aria so I can fully appreciate the difference between a higher end machine and a middle road machine which is what the 940 is (price aside). With all of the same features in consideration (tensioner is excluded obviously as one is a crank and one is a constant-pull electric), the two simply do not compare. The turntable on the SP is smoother. The clamps grip better with less pressure. The clamp bases are not only sturdier, but do not need to be calibrated after every 12 pulls. The guide rails are like butter. The mounting system is another discussion altogether even though both are 6 point (the Eagnas does not allow 360deg clearance of the stick over the tensioner), the SP is in a different category.

The same can be said of all of the other analogous crank machines from the likes of Gamma, Alpha and Prince. You are paying more because you are getting a higher quality good. The stringer makes the stringjob a good one, not the stringing machine. However, a stringer with a higher quality machine will always do better work for if not because of actual stringjob quality, but because it just takes less effort and he/she can work just that much more efficiently.

Right, I can see how all of that is true. I wouldn't dispute that.

In my situation though, I only really plan on stringing my own racquets, and I dont break strings so that's likely going to be every 2-3 months or so. It didnt make sense to spend much more then $300 and I wanted to get as many features as I could for that amount.

So I think the Eagnas does have a place for some people and you CAN do a quality job although I can see like you said that it can be a little harder sometimes. (the linear gripper for example seems kind of clunky versus how the rotational gripper works on other machines)

Power Player
11-04-2010, 07:29 AM
After stringing poly for months. I struggle more with the soft strings because I can never nail the slack on the first pull (drop weight). They always stretch too much.

Poly is now super easy for me, because once I get the arm in the right position, every pull is the same. Plus the string does not stretch a lot, so it is very easy to predict.

MuscleWeave
11-04-2010, 12:55 PM
The OP says that his syn gut is way off in tension, but compared to what? Figuring out what tensions work on your new machine is trial and error. In the Spring, I got a machine almost identical to yours. I had been having my string jobs done on a lock out machine. I figured it out after a while that I should string four pounds lower than his particular machine.

vkamphonephong
11-04-2010, 01:21 PM
Looks like OP hasn't replied in a while. I guess this thread was hijacked and went off topic too fast haha. It does look like he doesn't understand that polys don't stretch as much as syn gut though.