PDA

View Full Version : 2010 Ratings: What's The Damage?


Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 09:07 AM
So far, I'm doing pretty well. I'm still 3.5, and I've lost six players from my 3.5 spring team.

I had one 4.0 lady friend move down to 3.5. This is amazing because she is one of my go-to 4.0 players whenever I need a 7.5 combo win. I will go recruit her immediately for my 3.5 team before someone else nabs her.

I had two of my 3.5 players move up on pretty poor records. 2010 is going to be rough for them.

Cindy -- off to check her own rating one more time but feeling pretty lucky to have dodged a bullet

BustedString
11-29-2010, 09:22 AM
We lost in the flight playoffs and I lost my top 3 players to 4.5, all 3 of whom were computer 3.5 players in '08. In our area it was a slaughter for 4.0 guys moving to 4.5 and for weak 4.0 players staying at 4.0. Otherwise, it seemed fairly even throughout like in prior years. We lost about 20% of our 4.0 players here and our local champion didn't even advance past districts.

JLyon
11-29-2010, 09:25 AM
All my 5.0 guys stayed 5.0. Kinda funny since we went a great 0-8

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 09:44 AM
I'm thinkin' I'm going to wind up in good shape. It looks like the stronger women on my 7.0 mixed team moved up.

Fun fact: I spent a bunch of energy trying to recruit a certain self-rated player, and eventually she turned me down and went elsewhere. Then she got injured and didn't play spring adult. She played a few mixed matches, probably to try to get a 3.5 M rating, which would be better than an "S."

Whoops, the computer gave her a 4.0 M, so she is no longer a threat to destroy all of my singles players. Thank goodness.

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 10:12 AM
Bullet dodged by me. Kind unbelievable. But I'll take it.

I'll add that most of our team that went to Sectionals...stayed at 3.5. Only lost our top two singles players and one doubles gal.

michael_1265
11-29-2010, 10:19 AM
So far, I'm doing pretty well. I'm still 3.5, and I've lost six players from my 3.5 spring team.

I had one 4.0 lady friend move down to 3.5. This is amazing because she is one of my go-to 4.0 players whenever I need a 7.5 combo win. I will go recruit her immediately for my 3.5 team before someone else nabs her.

I had two of my 3.5 players move up on pretty poor records. 2010 is going to be rough for them.

Cindy -- off to check her own rating one more time but feeling pretty lucky to have dodged a bullet


I lost three players from my (former) 3.0 spring team, myself included. It looks like the 3.5 team I am going to has lost at least three, maybe four, so it is balancing out.

michael_1265
11-29-2010, 10:21 AM
Bullet dodged by me. Kind unbelievable. But I'll take it.

I'll add that most of our team that went to Sectionals...stayed at 3.5. Only lost our top two singles players and one doubles gal.

How in the world??? I've seen your record. I think they need to upgrade the CPU on that USTA computer.

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 10:21 AM
Congrats, Mike. You deserve the promotion. :)

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 10:22 AM
How in the world??? I've seen your record. I think they need to upgrade the CPU on that USTA computer.Yeah...I'm kinda scratching my head over that one. But, eh, I knew that even though we were playing the #1 or #2 lines...we weren't really playing anybody super tough.

forthegame
11-29-2010, 10:26 AM
I don't get it. Are you guys happy or sad to stay on a rating level? I would've thought you'd all want to move up...

li0scc0
11-29-2010, 10:34 AM
where do you find the rankings?

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 10:35 AM
I don't get it. Are you guys happy or sad to stay on a rating level? I would've thought you'd all want to move up...

Thrilled to stay at the same level.

I'm learning to play singles. I've changed my BH and my serve. I am learning to slice. It would be hard to implement these changes at 4.0, but I'll be able to keep working on it at 3.5.

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 10:36 AM
Bullet dodged by me. Kind unbelievable. But I'll take it.

I'll add that most of our team that went to Sectionals...stayed at 3.5. Only lost our top two singles players and one doubles gal.

Better keep checking, AngleQueen. I once sent out an e-mail to my team mid-day announcing the bumps, and then some extra ones came in that night.

OrangePower
11-29-2010, 10:36 AM
Everyone on my 4.5 team remains at 4.5 myself included. I have several 4.0 friends who got bumped up. As far as I can tell so far, there is a fair amount of bump-ups from 4.0 to 4.5, but not as many from 4.5 to 5.0 or even from 3.5 to 4.0 (relatively speaking). So maybe they are trying to increase the pool of 4.5 players while making 4.0 a bit smaller.

dafox
11-29-2010, 10:37 AM
Just got my first USTA rating finally - I have been playing casually for the past 4 years in a local tourneys/ladders. Ended up gettting a 4.5T rating - not sure how that impacts me if I try to play leagues this year.

andfor
11-29-2010, 10:40 AM
Looks like I'm still a 4.5. Not a steller year by any stretch. My back injury is gone so 2011 is going to be better.

TennisLink is slow. Wonder why? Ha Ha

OrangePower
11-29-2010, 10:41 AM
I don't get it. Are you guys happy or sad to stay on a rating level? I would've thought you'd all want to move up...

It seems that many would rather dominate at a lower level than have a losing record at a higher level.

Thrilled to stay at the same level.

I'm learning to play singles. I've changed my BH and my serve. I am learning to slice. It would be hard to implement these changes at 4.0, but I'll be able to keep working on it at 3.5.

There's always stuff to work on, and changes you could make to your game. So sooner or later you will need to figure out how to continue to implement changes while facing stiffer competition.

OrangePower
11-29-2010, 10:46 AM
Just got my first USTA rating finally - I have been playing casually for the past 4 years in a local tourneys/ladders. Ended up gettting a 4.5T rating - not sure how that impacts me if I try to play leagues this year.

As far as I know, for league play your 4.5T rating is considered equivalent to a 4.5 self rating - meaning that you can play no lower than 4.5 for leagues, but can get disqualified and bumped up to 5.0 mid-season if you are blowing people away.

ryushen21
11-29-2010, 10:47 AM
I'm kinda ticked. I didn't play Fall '09. Only got two matches in Spring '10 (0-2) and just finished a 4-0 Fall season but because it started late half of my matches didn't get considered in the ratings. Shoulda moved up but it looks like I'm stuck.

I'm just gonna talk to my team capt and see if there's room for me on the team where I should be.

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 10:48 AM
I don't get it. Are you guys happy or sad to stay on a rating level? I would've thought you'd all want to move up...Mixed emotions here. I worked very hard to improve myself and, collectively, my regular partner and I did the same to become a top pair. A move to 4.0 would have meant playing on Tuesdays (instead of Wednesdays) which is better for me from a childcare standpoint. BUT, it would also mean finding a new team. I like the ladies I play with -- we had phenomenal success this year...but it was ancillary to the 3Fs we classify tennis: fitness, fun and fellowship.

Better keep checking, AngleQueen. I once sent out an e-mail to my team mid-day announcing the bumps, and then some extra ones came in that night.Understood...but maybe I should take a screenshot of the "Find A Rating" result that has a 12/31/2010 date. ;)

dcdoorknob
11-29-2010, 10:48 AM
What do you have to do to get bumped down? I was barely above .500 at 3.0 in 2009 but got caught in the great bump up, didn't fare well.

My 3.5 results last spring (all singles):
L 3-6, 3-6
L 0-6, 2-6
L 1-6, 0-6
L 1-6, 5-7
L 1-6, 3-6

I was hoping to be bumped down to 3.0 so I could play both a 3.0 and a 3.5 league this spring. Oh well, still a 3.5. I am curious how awful you have to get creamed consistently to actually get bumped down.

I've been taking lessons and am definitely playing better now than I was for those matches, but I mainly wanted to be able to get in some more matches with a 3.0 league in the spring. Playing up to 4.0 seems pretty ridiculous under the circumstances.

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 10:51 AM
TennisLink is slow. Wonder why? Ha HaWhy USTA decided to release the ratings, at lunchtime, on CyberMonday....

That's planning for ya!

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 10:55 AM
What do you have to do to get bumped down? I was barely above .500 at 3.0 in 2009 but got caught in the great bump up, didn't fare well.A little well-placed birdy told me you had to do a minimum 2-year tour at any new level before they'd move ya again. Guess that's to make them feel better about any (potential) mistake they made. Hang in there, doorknob. You'll fare better next year. :)

dlk
11-29-2010, 10:55 AM
Bumped up to 3.5, believe cause I played on 3.5 leagues (cause my record was not that great).

SlapShot
11-29-2010, 11:07 AM
My 4.0 team has 3 fresh 4.5 players (one of whom I expected would get bumped, and 2 I'm a bit confused by). We've got a strong core of players, but sadly we will miss the 3 that were bumped.

ibeeskeef
11-29-2010, 11:12 AM
I got bumped to 4.5, which was not a surprise after going 12-1 in Men's 4.0 league this year. The surprise was it allowed me to appeal and I am back to 4.0. :shock::shock:

Perry the Platypus
11-29-2010, 11:14 AM
Don't see a lot of change around here. Even a couple of 4.5 guys I know that wound 75% of their sectional matches stayed the same. I even saw a couple of last year's bump ups get bumped down...... Definitely did not look like bumpfest 2009 part 2.........

OrangePower
11-29-2010, 11:22 AM
I got bumped to 4.5, which was not a surprise after going 12-1 in Men's 4.0 league this year. The surprise was it allowed me to appeal and I am back to 4.0. :shock::shock:

Very strange... I thought that auto-appeals are being denied if you played 6 or more matches against computer rated players in adult league. Wonder if there is a glitch somewhere?

BustedString
11-29-2010, 11:58 AM
A little well-placed birdy told me you had to do a minimum 2-year tour at any new level before they'd move ya again. Guess that's to make them feel better about any (potential) mistake they made. Hang in there, doorknob. You'll fare better next year. :)

I believe this because there are several people here who clearly should have rated down based upon results but they didn't because they rated up last year. This is a horrendous rule. They are tailoring the system to a few sandbaggers and not the masses.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Very strange... I thought that auto-appeals are being denied if you played 6 or more matches against computer rated players in adult league. Wonder if there is a glitch somewhere?

They must have lifted this rule because I saw a guy with 9 matches win his appeal down, and he played in a flight play-off and had a Benchmark rating.

ian2
11-29-2010, 12:01 PM
Very strange... I thought that auto-appeals are being denied if you played 6 or more matches against computer rated players in adult league. Wonder if there is a glitch somewhere?

The whole NTRP system is mostly a glitch, with some flashes of common sense thrown in for good measure. State's #1 ranked guy at 3.5 did not get bumped up. Ditto for state's #1 dubs pair: these guys completely dominated the whole season yet no bump up, both remain 3.5. My 15:4 league record looks paltry in comparison (I didn't get bumped either), but personal feelings aside something isn't working right...

Kostas
11-29-2010, 12:09 PM
A little well-placed birdy told me you had to do a minimum 2-year tour at any new level before they'd move ya again. Guess that's to make them feel better about any (potential) mistake they made. Hang in there, doorknob. You'll fare better next year. :)

Not so....there were at least two women that my wife play with that didn't survive their first year at 4.5. They were bumped last December and had horrid Adult seasons and both are now back to 4.0.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 12:09 PM
We lost about 20% of our 4.0 players to 4.5 in my area. This seems ridiculously high to me given that the winning team didn't even advance past districts.

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 12:17 PM
Not so....there were at least two women that my wife play with that didn't survive their first year at 4.5. They were bumped last December and had horrid Adult seasons and both are now back to 4.0.Good to know. I'll inform my source. Misconceptions abound.

film1
11-29-2010, 12:18 PM
Where are you finding these updated ratings?

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 12:20 PM
We lost about 20% of our 4.0 players to 4.5 in my area. This seems ridiculously high to me given that the winning team didn't even advance past districts.

That's probably a variation of the ole "2nd place gets screwed" phenomenon.

The teams that advance get their @ss handed to them at some point unless they make it far in nationals which lowers their ratings because 50% of it is the highest level they've been at.

Meanwhile if any players had any sort of success against them, they get kicked up. (and if they are benchmarks it could affect their entire area)

They need to get rid of the 50% thing in my opinion, it's based on the flawed opinion that playoff teams are somehow more representative of their level when in fact most of the time they are not. (either they cheat, or at the best by the time they get to that point, they have improved where they are not at the level they are playing at anymore more times then not)

Unless they go back to having verifiers that actually affect ratings. (which makes more sense in the playoffs where you may not be able to afford to throw games or not play full out)

Otherwise they need to use the DNTRP in my opinion, what do you think? They could still do some sort of trickle down affect for the purposes of adjusting to the playoffs, but to make the highest level of playoffs 50% of your rating makes more problems then it solves.

NoSkillzAndy
11-29-2010, 12:25 PM
As far as I know, for league play your 4.5T rating is considered equivalent to a 4.5 self rating - meaning that you can play no lower than 4.5 for leagues, but can get disqualified and bumped up to 5.0 mid-season if you are blowing people away.

dafox, I'll be in the same boat as you for next year. They gave me a 4.5T because I didn't play any leagues this year. I'm not too happy about that as there is a possibility (however slim) to get DQ'd if I do really well. I don't really care if I get bumped up, but DQ's can ruin a team's season...

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 12:25 PM
I believe this because there are several people here who clearly should have rated down based upon results but they didn't because they rated up last year. This is a horrendous rule. They are tailoring the system to a few sandbaggers and not the masses.

Under normal circumstances though it's been always rare that people get moved down. (compared to getting moved up)

And you have to figure they dragged those lines 30-35% into the previous levels to get them rated up in the first place.

Mathematically that's got to make it near impossible to get moved down. If you win any sort of games in your matches you'll get stuck at that level more now then ever....

(just dont like when people claim little birdies told them something and now we have a million people claiming that they "have a record that CLEARLY should of had them moved down" in a system that is not really all that clear....)

PinkTennisNinja
11-29-2010, 12:28 PM
I got bumped to 4.5, which was not a surprise after going 12-1 in Men's 4.0 league this year. The surprise was it allowed me to appeal and I am back to 4.0. :shock::shock:

Why would you appeal down??? I've heard this from more than one person. I know it's fun to win everything (I was 8 or 9-0 in the spring) but if I played the same level again it just wouldn't be challenging. Hell it wasn't really challenging the last time I just couldn't get on a high level team because I didn't know anyone.

I'm now happily a 3.5 and have a new tennis family :)

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 12:28 PM
The teams that advance get their @ss handed to them at some point unless they make it far in nationals which lowers their ratings because 50% of it is the highest level they've been at.

...

They could still do some sort of trickle down affect for the purposes of adjusting to the playoffs, but to make the highest level of playoffs 50% of your rating makes more problems then it solves.I think, therein, lies the explanation of my (still-the-same) 3.5 rating. My partner and I rolled undefeated during the regular season and won all three of our matches at Districts. At Sectionals, however, we were 1-2. But because I think we've crashed tennislink, I can't really check to see what happened to the ladies we played at Sectionals. My guess...they all got the bump. I stayed home.

ksteph
11-29-2010, 12:30 PM
I can't even get on Tennislink to check out the ratings. Even though my captain has made me aware of my rating.

Cindy---as far as the teammate that was moved down. That was her plan. She didn't want to be a 4.0. Now we can be partners again!!!

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 12:31 PM
(just dont like when people claim little birdies told them something and now we have a million people claiming that they "have a record that CLEARLY should of had them moved down" in a system that is not really all that clear....)Agreed. I normally don't throw such things out but felt obligated to qualify it. My source is/was connected. Some digging (on her part) is in order. I would love to have a specific example to give her but telling her I read the contradiction from someone on the internet is about as good as me saying "a birdy" told me. ;)

Brown&Gold
11-29-2010, 12:32 PM
Once again the USTA doesn't disappoint. I appealed last summer to get moved from a 4.0 to 3.5 due to a double knee transplant. I was turned down flat and didn't play any league or tournaments all summer because I knew that I wouldn't be able to compete at the 4.0 level. Today, the USTA determines I'm a 3.5. I'm glad I was moved down, but kind of ticked that I lost a whole league season. That's the USTA for yeah. No rhyme or reason for anything that they do.

JoelDali
11-29-2010, 12:34 PM
I got bumped to 4.5, which was not a surprise after going 12-1 in Men's 4.0 league this year. The surprise was it allowed me to appeal and I am back to 4.0. :shock::shock:

Where does 'it' allow you to appeal?

NoSkillzAndy
11-29-2010, 12:37 PM
Where does 'it' allow you to appeal?

If you enter your USTA # when you look up your rating, it should give you the option to appeal the rating.

AutoXer
11-29-2010, 12:38 PM
I got my C, so no more having to throw games to keep it close. I can now sandbag without fear of the DQ. :D


Just kidding. I don't have to throw games to keep it close :(

film1
11-29-2010, 12:40 PM
Once again the USTA doesn't disappoint. I appealed last summer to get moved from a 4.0 to 3.5 due to a double knee transplant. I was turned down flat and didn't play any league or tournaments all summer because I knew that I wouldn't be able to compete at the 4.0 level. Today, the USTA determines I'm a 3.5. I'm glad I was moved down, but kind of ticked that I lost a whole league season. That's the USTA for yeah. No rhyme or reason for anything that they do.

I bet you would have found a few of the people playing 4.0 were not as good as some of the top 3.5 players.

duketennisgal
11-29-2010, 12:42 PM
Interesting, I didn't get bumped but did advance to states last year so I am now a 4.5 B. The interesting thing is that it is giving me the option to appeal. I wouldn't think of it, 4.5 is where I belong but since when can you appeal a B rating?

spiderman123
11-29-2010, 12:43 PM
Cindy -- off to check her own rating one more time

Stop doing that. I cannot even load that page to check my rating.

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 12:43 PM
I got my C, so no more having to throw games to keep it close. I can now sandbag without fear of the DQ. :D


Just kidding. I don't have to throw games to keep it close :(

You mean you dont have to sandbag....

tennis_tater
11-29-2010, 12:50 PM
Interesting, I didn't get bumped but did advance to states last year so I am now a 4.5 B. The interesting thing is that it is giving me the option to appeal. I wouldn't think of it, 4.5 is where I belong but since when can you appeal a B rating?

I know you couldn't appeal a B in the past; however, I have now seen numerous people who were bumped up and had a B next to their rating who have now successfully appealed back down to their 2010 rating. I went back to look on the USTA website to see if there was change in the appeal rule for 2011; however, I'm not finding anything.

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 12:55 PM
Cindy---as far as the teammate that was moved down. That was her plan. She didn't want to be a 4.0. Now we can be partners again!!!

Yes, she is delighted and is helping me round up strong 3.5s for the spring team. You two will make a fierce pairing.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 12:55 PM
Otherwise they need to use the DNTRP in my opinion, what do you think?
I completely agree. I think the Benchmark has spun out of control.

My other beef is that the range for 4.5 is now ridiculous. One of my guys that rated up to 4.5 has a 40-45 MPH serve, tops and now he has to play against Division III athletes.

I also did some digging and the USTA rules indicate Benchmark processing should apply to District/Area, Section and National championship players. Our district must have set up the system wrong for my team to be Benchmark. The wording was very specific that Benchmarks should only be for those advancing beyond local league play. We didn't. I have emailed our Section Director on this.

JLyon
11-29-2010, 12:58 PM
I know you couldn't appeal a B in the past; however, I have now seen numerous people who were bumped up and had a B next to their rating who have now successfully appealed back down to their 2010 rating. I went back to look on the USTA website to see if there was change in the appeal rule for 2011; however, I'm not finding anything.

not sure what is going on, but I was not allowed to Appeal due to being a Benchmark, of course if I am a benchmark for a 5.0 then it does not say much about 5.0 tennis.

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 12:59 PM
Why would you appeal down??? I've heard this from more than one person.

I wouldn't have appealed down had I been bumped, but it would have made life difficult. I wouldn't have tried to captain at 4.0, as I just don't know enough players to gather up a decent team.

I think as you get higher up the scale, bumps get a lot more traumatic in terms of finding teams and suchlike. I mean, when I was bumped from 2.5 to 3.0, it didn't seem that difficult to bring my skills into line with my rating. Same thing on the move from 3.0 to 3.5. Going to 4.0 would have been a whole new level of challenge, and I'm getting a little old for that.

Still, I would have taken my lumps and not appealed. I'm already playing at 4.0 already and plan to keep doing so, after all.

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 01:01 PM
I also did some digging and the USTA rules indicate Benchmark processing should apply to District/Area, Section and National championship players. Our district must have set up the system wrong for my team to be Benchmark. The wording was very specific that Benchmarks should only be for those advancing beyond local league play. We didn't. I have emailed our Section Director on this.

I saw that before in our area. My team only made it to the local league playoffs but had B ratings applyed to them. But then the league later came back and said that we could appeal anyway due to the rules on whether you could appeal or not.

I dont think Benchmark really necessarily means you cant appeal, because when they made that rule they started with Nationals and it trickled down. I think the Benchmark rating just indicates that 50% of your rating is from the playoffs (which probably is the case even for local playoffs).

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 01:17 PM
Stop doing that. I cannot even load that page to check my rating.

Ha! Never!!!

I'm looking up everyone I know. This is when captains start rounding up their spring teams. I can't lose any time! So I enter a name, vacuum a room, come back to the computer, enter another name, vacuum another room. The house is spotless. :)

Give me your real name and I'll look you up, friend.

Spokewench
11-29-2010, 01:34 PM
3.5 for me. I was really surprised with the rest of my team senior team that I have been able to check. The early ratings said that three of my ladies would get bumped to 4.0, but it appears that only 1 got bumped. She is my good buddy which is a sad, but that is the way it goes. Actually, her partner who did not get bumped is probably a little better, but she missed Sectionals cause of a death in the family. I think that was the difference.

I still need to find a few more for the 3.5 seniors to play this year due to several injuries, but that should be doable. One more chance at Sectionals! Yeah.

wrxinsc
11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Ha! Never!!!

I'm looking up everyone I know. This is when captains start rounding up their spring teams. I can't lose any time! So I enter a name, vacuum a room, come back to the computer, enter another name, vacuum another room. The house is spotless. :)

Give me your real name and I'll look you up, friend.

You are why tennis is a great sport and the USTA system, as flawed as it admitted is, is the best thing going for amateur athletes/competitors that I am aware of.

sumari
11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Cindy, you can get all of the ratings for your local league at once. Go to Tennislink. On the right side of the page click on Find a Rating, next choose drill down search. Choose section,district and skip the optional questions. Click search.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
I dont think Benchmark really necessarily means you cant appeal, because when they made that rule they started with Nationals and it trickled down. I think the Benchmark rating just indicates that 50% of your rating is from the playoffs (which probably is the case even for local playoffs).

Per my Section Director, our district set up the flight play-off as an "area" championship which is an advancement beyond league play. I don't know if they can do a flight championship in the system without it being "area". I'm going to follow up on that.

asked_answered
11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
I'm happy with getting bumped to 3.5 because it feels like an acknowledgement of the work I've put in to improve my game since last year and, in part, because it makes feel less awkward about the possibility of captaining my club's 3.5 team. (We had trouble getting captains for the fall team, and I don't think either of the co-captains wants to do it again.)

JoelDali
11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Ha! Never!!!

I'm looking up everyone I know. This is when captains start rounding up their spring teams. I can't lose any time! So I enter a name, vacuum a room, come back to the computer, enter another name, vacuum another room. The house is spotless. :)

Give me your real name and I'll look you up, friend.

Do you vacuum in yer sweats?

I do for religious reasons.

:(

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Better keep checking, AngleQueen. I once sent out an e-mail to my team mid-day announcing the bumps, and then some extra ones came in that night.I think...history is repeating itself. Just got a call from a fellow teammate who, at 10am this morning, was still a 3.5....but now (at ~5pm)...is a 4.0. Seems they're changing things mid-stream.

For what it's worth, I (and a former captain) have paper copies with the 12/31/2010 date and 3.5 ratings. Be interesting to see how this all turns out.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 01:38 PM
You are why tennis is a great sport and the USTA system, as flawed as it admitted is, is the best thing going for amateur athletes/competitors that I am aware of.

Yeah it is a fantastic system but it doesn't mean we can't complain about it!

JoelDali
11-29-2010, 01:39 PM
(Just kidding... :)

BustedString
11-29-2010, 01:44 PM
I just appealed some 4.5 names and it worked, they just got bumped down to 4.0.

USTA needs to password protect this stuff, LOL.

OK, you need their USTA # and the zip code of their residence to appeal and only the player and their captains will have that. Further, you need their explicit permission to appeal or your section will impose an automatic 11 month, 30 day ban on league play for you. The system is so slow it took me 15 minutes per player to run my authorized appeals. Are you sure that you appealed these players?

ksteph
11-29-2010, 01:47 PM
Yes, she is delighted and is helping me round up strong 3.5s for the spring team. You two will make a fierce pairing.

Your team should be very strong next season.

wrxinsc
11-29-2010, 01:48 PM
I think...history is repeating itself. Just got a call from a fellow teammate who, at 10am this morning, was still a 3.5....but now (at ~5pm)...is a 4.0. Seems they're changing things mid-stream.

For what it's worth, I (and a former captain) have paper copies with the 12/31/2010 date and 3.5 ratings. Be interesting to see how this all turns out.

Because of this information you bring to light - I don't think that I would rely on the your rating sticking until after 6:00pm or so like it states on the home page.

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 01:50 PM
Because of this information you bring to light - I don't think that I would rely on the your rating sticking until after 6:00pm or so like it states on the home page.Yep. I'm with ya. And now, looks like they've taken tennislink down altogether. Smart move. Get it right. Then deal with the fallout.

wrxinsc
11-29-2010, 01:52 PM
^ All this stuff feeds my obsessive compulsive tennis related behavior...I think in a healthy way :|. My wife might disagree.

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 01:54 PM
I think...history is repeating itself. Just got a call from a fellow teammate who, at 10am this morning, was still a 3.5....but now (at ~5pm)...is a 4.0. Seems they're changing things mid-stream.

For what it's worth, I (and a former captain) have paper copies with the 12/31/2010 date and 3.5 ratings. Be interesting to see how this all turns out.


I already saw myself as a 3.5 B. They can't take that away from me!

BustedString
11-29-2010, 01:54 PM
Yep. I'm with ya. And now, looks like they've taken tennislink down altogether. Smart move. Get it right. Then deal with the fallout.

It now says they are all published, no 6:00 PM stuff.

wrxinsc
11-29-2010, 01:56 PM
It now says they are all published, no 6:00 PM stuff.

good deal. sounds like they have been updating things along and along...thanks for the heads up. off to check my rating again. maybe i'll get in this time. :mad:

wrxinsc
11-29-2010, 01:58 PM
^ NOPE. still can't get in. Well I guess I will go do something weird like play tennis with me wifey!

BustedString
11-29-2010, 02:05 PM
I already saw myself as a 3.5 B. They can't take that away from me!

That actually is a good question. What about the Benchmark appeals that appear to have been granted improperly? I presume that they will reverse them but that is going to cause some anger for sure, I think.

Angle Queen
11-29-2010, 02:24 PM
^ NOPE. still can't get in. Well I guess I will go do something weird like play tennis with me wifey!I'm still shut out here too. Guess I'll get dinner on the table and let things settle some more.

lwk1219
11-29-2010, 02:32 PM
I believe ratings are to post 6:30 est

BustedString
11-29-2010, 02:35 PM
Just got this:


"We're sorry, but we cannot find ratings at this time. A data refresh may be taking place."

max8176
11-29-2010, 02:43 PM
I completely agree. I think the Benchmark has spun out of control.

My other beef is that the range for 4.5 is now ridiculous. One of my guys that rated up to 4.5 has a 40-45 MPH serve, tops and now he has to play against Division III athletes.

I also did some digging and the USTA rules indicate Benchmark processing should apply to District/Area, Section and National championship players. Our district must have set up the system wrong for my team to be Benchmark. The wording was very specific that Benchmarks should only be for those advancing beyond local league play. We didn't. I have emailed our Section Director on this.

My team didnt advanced beyond local playoffs as well. I do not see a "B" next to my name but the computer said my appeal is denied due to being a benchmark.

dafox
11-29-2010, 02:59 PM
Shut out; this is CRAZY

kylebarendrick
11-29-2010, 03:01 PM
Tennislink is clearly getting hammered today. All we can do is be patient...

Todd6060
11-29-2010, 03:21 PM
I'm looking up everyone I know. This is when captains start rounding up their spring teams. I can't lose any time! So I enter a name, vacuum a room, come back to the computer, enter another name, vacuum another room. The house is spotless. :)


I did a drill-down and got everybody's rating in my district on one screen. Took a while but now I've kept that screen open all day so when I think of someone I can quickly find their rating.

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 03:27 PM
I now have in my hot little hands a print-out of all 3.5 and 4.0 players in my state.

Tennislink likes me better than you.

tennis_tater
11-29-2010, 03:33 PM
Tennislink is clearly getting hammered today. All we can do is be patient...

I haven't been able to get in to Tennis Link since before 10:00 a.m. I don't remember Tennis Link failing like this last year.

tennis_tater
11-29-2010, 03:34 PM
I now have in my hot little hands a print-out of all 3.5 and 4.0 players in my state.

Tennislink likes me better than you.

Is there a function on Tennis Link that allows you to do this? If so, where is the search function?

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 03:36 PM
Is there a function on Tennis Link that allows you to do this? If so, where is the search function?

Somebody explained it earlier in this thread. You go to find a rating, and then do the drill down. I printed and saved to my desktop.

There are some real shockers in here, that's all I can say.

michael_1265
11-29-2010, 03:39 PM
Congrats, Mike. You deserve the promotion. :)

Thanks.
I'm feeling ready for the change, oddly more at singles than doubles.

I played someone from your club last week who is starting USTA as a 4.0 in the spring. He is a little rusty, but I played him pretty even on one of the outdoor clay courts, so I'm feeling okay about dealing with the competition at 3.5.

forthegame
11-29-2010, 04:34 PM
I like how you guys take it so seriously (some folks way too much), I can only dream of semi-serious tennis here...

obtn
11-29-2010, 04:35 PM
I didn't read this whole thread, so this may have been covered already... but is 3 matches not enough to get a computer rating?

I played three matches in a tournament at 3.5 in early november, went 2-1. Beat one guy who'd only played 3.5 doubles on a team, and then the number 12 guy in my state. Then lost to the number one 3.5 guy in the state.

According to tennislink I have a year end rating of 3.5 S, calculated 11/9/10.

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 04:50 PM
I didn't read this whole thread, so this may have been covered already... but is 3 matches not enough to get a computer rating?

I played three matches in a tournament at 3.5 in early november, went 2-1. Beat one guy who'd only played 3.5 doubles on a team, and then the number 12 guy in my state. Then lost to the number one 3.5 guy in the state.

According to tennislink I have a year end rating of 3.5 S, calculated 11/9/10.

Not all tournaments generate ratings. It sounds like you are still on your self rating.

Maui19
11-29-2010, 04:52 PM
I didn't read this whole thread, so this may have been covered already... but is 3 matches not enough to get a computer rating?

I played three matches in a tournament at 3.5 in early november, went 2-1. Beat one guy who'd only played 3.5 doubles on a team, and then the number 12 guy in my state. Then lost to the number one 3.5 guy in the state.

According to tennislink I have a year end rating of 3.5 S, calculated 11/9/10.

It's hard to be sure, but none of the "self-rateds" that I know have been updated. They all show the original date of their self-rating. I don't know if these are supposed to be updated now or not.

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 04:55 PM
It's hard to be sure, but none of the "self-rateds" that I know have been updated. They all show the original date of their self-rating. I don't know if these are supposed to be updated now or not.

I know of at least 2 self rates that were updated and one that was not.

(that one that was not only played 2 matches but one was 6-0, 6-0 and maybe that really does matter....)

Jim A
11-29-2010, 05:04 PM
A bit surprised as the team that won our flight both for league/twilight had all the main players stay as 3.5B. 2 of whom were surprising to not be bumped after strong seasons in '09

at least I know who to email this week as I look for a new team for '11

I did see a couple self-rates who now have C ratings

gameboy
11-29-2010, 06:32 PM
My other beef is that the range for 4.5 is now ridiculous. One of my guys that rated up to 4.5 has a 40-45 MPH serve, tops and now he has to play against Division III athletes.


Who cares how fast his serve is? The only question that matter is whether or not he can play competitive matches at 4.5. There are no style points in USTA, results are all that matters and that is exactly how it should be.

Do you think if Fed served only dink serves he would lose to 4.5 players? He can serve with his left hand and still win.

jonnyjack
11-30-2010, 12:31 AM
The weirdest thing I saw was an opposing 3.5 team that had two self-rates get the 3-strikes DQ during the season so they became 4.0 self-rates. Neither played any more men's matches at 4.0 or 4.5 so the only matches used to compute their 2011 rating was the matches that got them DQ'ed.

One of them is now a 4.5C and the other is a 3.5C. What gives?

BustedString
11-30-2010, 04:40 AM
Who cares how fast his serve is? The only question that matter is whether or not he can play competitive matches at 4.5. There are no style points in USTA, results are all that matters and that is exactly how it should be.

Do you think if Fed served only dink serves he would lose to 4.5 players? He can serve with his left hand and still win.

I think Elena Dementieva's lack of a grand slam title speaks volumes about the importance of at least a decent serve. If you don't even see the returns because they are blasting them past you at 4.0, it is going to be tough to hold, and hence win, at 4.5.

I would love to see Fed dink his serve and still win. Would never happen.

heninfan99
11-30-2010, 05:36 AM
In my league it's clear they went back to rare bumping. Perhaps it's more strict than before. One guy was 5-1 on court #1 singles and didn't get bumped.
He split sets with the one guy that got bumped and not all his matches were close.

I think if they don't reward 5-1 play on court #1 it could make those guys opt to play outside the USTA.

wrxinsc
11-30-2010, 05:47 AM
In my league it's clear they went back to rare bumping. Perhaps it's more strict than before. One guy was 5-1 on court #1 singles and didn't get bumped.
He split sets with the one guy that got bumped and not all his matches were close.

I think if they don't reward 5-1 play on court #1 it could make those guys opt to play outside the USTA.

Possibly (even though it was the #1 court - which I understand your point on this...) his opponents didn't have a high enough dynamic rating and the games won weren't lop sided enough to trigger the changes necessary to bump him. did his team and he go on to 'post season' play? if so those results count 50% towards year end.

Remember just because a player wins doesn't mean his or her rating goes up or down.

The fact that dynamic ratings aren't visible of course makes for all kinds of conjecture and mystery. i thinks that is a good thing personally, but i know many would disagree with me.

interestingly a hypothetical x.01 player against a x.49 player is programmed as a massive loss expectation. 0,0 or 1,1 or the like. if the computer doesn't see that result the higher rated player will loose points dynamically depending on the score even if they won.

heninfan99
11-30-2010, 06:00 AM
Yeah it is a mystery and I get what you're saying but this player split sets with one of two guys that got bumped in the entire league.
No this player didn't go to the playoffs, he was on an average team. I'm just trying to understand it as not all this player's matches were close.


Possibly (even though it was the #1 court - which I understand your point on this...) his opponents didn't have a high enough dynamic rating and the games won weren't lop sided enough to trigger the changes necessary to bump him. did his team and he go on to 'post season' play? if so those results count 50% towards year end.

Remember just because a player wins doesn't mean his or her rating goes up or down.

The fact that dynamic ratings aren't visible of course makes for all kinds of conjecture and mystery. i thinks that is a good thing personally, but i know many would disagree with me.

interestingly a hypothetical x.01 player against a x.49 player is programmed as a massive loss expectation. 0,0 or 1,1 or the like. if the computer doesn't see that result the higher rated player will loose points dynamically depending on the score even if they won.

J_R_B
11-30-2010, 06:09 AM
The weirdest thing I saw was an opposing 3.5 team that had two self-rates get the 3-strikes DQ during the season so they became 4.0 self-rates. Neither played any more men's matches at 4.0 or 4.5 so the only matches used to compute their 2011 rating was the matches that got them DQ'ed.

One of them is now a 4.5C and the other is a 3.5C. What gives?

That's surprising. I can understand the 4.5C if the matches were real blow outs (like 6-1 6-0 or 6-2 6-0), although I'd think that it would be difficult to get the double bump if you only play limited matches at the next level. The bump back down to 3.5 after getting DQ'd is really strange, however, and if that happened to me after I self-rated, I'd definitely quit USTA tennis.

Cindysphinx
11-30-2010, 06:26 AM
That's surprising. I can understand the 4.5C if the matches were real blow outs (like 6-1 6-0 or 6-2 6-0), although I'd think that it would be difficult to get the double bump if you only play limited matches at the next level. The bump back down to 3.5 after getting DQ'd is really strange, however, and if that happened to me after I self-rated, I'd definitely quit USTA tennis.

I wouldn't quit.

I would demand an explanation, and it had better be a darn good one.

You'd think the rating formula would have some sort of code in it that prevents that sort of result, just to avoid embarrassment for USTA!

JoelDali
11-30-2010, 07:27 AM
The bumps have killed senior tennis once again.

65 year olds can't play 10.0 mixed.

We're all friggen doomed.

http://photos.lasvegassun.com/media/img/photos/2009/04/16/scaled.S_BCtennis0423MP3_t653.jpg?214bc4f9d9bd7c08 c7d0f6599bb3328710e01e7b

polski
11-30-2010, 08:55 AM
Here is what happened in our men's local leagues:

3.0: 34 players, 11 bumped to 3.5, no bump downs
3.5: 67 players, 4 bumped to 4.0, no bump downs
4.0: 40 players, 8 bumped to 4.5, no bump downs
4.5: 30 players, 2 bumped to 5.0, 1 bumped down to 4.0

So, around here they cleaned house with 3.0 & 4.0. We'll have pretty healthy participation in 3.5 for sure, but 3.0 will need fresh blood to continue to exist.

Cindysphinx
11-30-2010, 09:00 AM
^That's a lot of upward movement.

How did you get that info? It would take forever to compile it manually in our league.

polski
11-30-2010, 09:19 AM
^That's a lot of upward movement.

How did you get that info? It would take forever to compile it manually in our league.

http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/NTRP/AdvancedSearch.aspx

It's pretty easy

polski
11-30-2010, 09:28 AM
^That's a lot of upward movement.

How did you get that info? It would take forever to compile it manually in our league.

It might look like a lot of movement up, but knowing 75% of these guys like I do - it was the right move. Last year there were a few around us that were questionable (including the 1 bump down this year), but this year no one can really complain.

gameboy
11-30-2010, 09:40 AM
My indoor league (3.5) got a bumper crop....

My team finished 3rd and had 2 players bump up. One was not a surprise, but other was a mild surprise.

The 2nd place team had 3 players bumped up.

The 1st place team that went undefeated got 4 players bumped up. I guess time to recruit more ringers...

Fedace
11-30-2010, 09:52 AM
All my 5.0 guys stayed 5.0. Kinda funny since we went a great 0-8

This ratings bumps Mostly affect guys in 3.5 and 4.0 level due to all the cheating going on over the years. that is the Truth.

OrangePower
11-30-2010, 10:36 AM
Upon further analysis...

In my section (NorCal), it looks like any decent 4.0s that were somehow not involved in last year's great bump-up, have now been moved up to 4.5.

Other than that, there's been some movement from 3.0 to 3.5 and from 3.5 to 4.0, but nothing unusual.

So I think that this is the continuation of the USTA effort to balance out the number of people in each level... specifically, to make 4.5 a more populated level.

The end result is that the 4.5 range is much broader now than it was a few years ago. On the plus side, there are more 4.5s, so more of a pool of players. On the minus side, there is definitely a gap between abilities of the 'established' 4.5s versus the 'new' 4.5s from the last couple of bump-ups.

kylebarendrick
11-30-2010, 10:41 AM
I think you have it about right for Norcal OrangePower. I am a norcal 4.0 that was bumped from 3.5 last year in the big movement. I did OK (4-8 ) for a first year at a new level but struggled to compete with the established 4.0s that hadn't moved up. Most of those players have gotten the bump to 4.5 so I expect 4.0 to be a lot more level this year.

magmasilk
12-01-2010, 02:52 PM
Here is what happened in our men's local leagues:

3.0: 34 players, 11 bumped to 3.5, no bump downs
3.5: 67 players, 4 bumped to 4.0, no bump downs
4.0: 40 players, 8 bumped to 4.5, no bump downs
4.5: 30 players, 2 bumped to 5.0, 1 bumped down to 4.0

So, around here they cleaned house with 3.0 & 4.0. We'll have pretty healthy participation in 3.5 for sure, but 3.0 will need fresh blood to continue to exist.

2010 in MidAtlantic NOVA: if my data dig (looks like no way to consider people playing up) is right looks like over the last 2 years they moved mostly into 4.0 now instead of spread in 3.5-4.0 ... odd

bumps
3.0: 50 players, 15 bumped to 3.5
3.5: 161 players, 41 bumped to 4.0
4.0: 346 players, 40 bumped to 4.5
4.5: 172 players, 14 bumped to 5.0

dems comparison
2010 2008
3.0 50 90
3.5 174 310
4.0 381 307
4.5 209 178

heninfan99
12-02-2010, 05:14 AM
For the first time I know more people that want to be bumped up than people who are angry that they got bumped. Maybe this shift in attitude was a small part of the USTA's plan. We do have strange sport were everyone used to(many still do) only want to play down a level to get to the playoffs.

dlk
12-02-2010, 05:40 AM
http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/NTRP/AdvancedSearch.aspx

It's pretty easy

Cool, thanks for link:)