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vizsla
11-29-2010, 11:23 AM
There are some local players here who went to finals at state and are shown as rated computer rated (C) vice benchmarked (B). Anybody else have this happen?

tennis_tater
11-29-2010, 12:16 PM
There are some local players here who went to finals at state and are shown as rated computer rated (C) vice benchmarked (B). Anybody else have this happen?

Haven't seen that, but we have had some who went to finals of state, were bumped up to 4.5 with a B, and a few hours later, are a 4.0 A. I didn't think you could appeal a Benchmark?

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 12:46 PM
"Finals at state"? What does that mean? Do you mean combo or something?

BustedString
11-29-2010, 12:48 PM
"Finals at state"? What does that mean? Do you mean combo or something?

State is what some areas know as District because of how our Section is organized.

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 12:50 PM
State is what some areas know as District because of how our Section is organized.

Yes, but the question is, whether the OP has that same scenario as well, or if in their area "State" means something smaller then districts?

Seems odd if people can appeal their benchmark rating if they went to the District playoffs, doesnt it?

ian2
11-29-2010, 12:57 PM
I went to the district playoffs (we didn't advance out of the round-robin part of the playoffs... don't know it that matters). My 2010 rating remains "C", same as last year. Shouldn't it be "B"?

Cindysphinx
11-29-2010, 01:01 PM
Funny thing. I have a benchmark rating now. I have only played in one playoff match -- the flight playoffs where the winners of the top teams played each other, with the two winners going to Districts.

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 01:02 PM
I went to the district playoffs (we didn't advance out of the round-robin part of the playoffs... don't know it that matters). My 2010 rating remains "C", same as last year. Shouldn't it be "B"?

Did you get to play in the playoffs?

tennis_tater
11-29-2010, 01:05 PM
Yes, but the question is, whether the OP has that same scenario as well, or if in their area "State" means something smaller then districts?

Seems odd if people can appeal their benchmark rating if they went to the District playoffs, doesnt it?

Well, when I say State, I guess I mean Districts. We have our local league, then "State"/district tournament where all local leagues in our state go play to earn the right to go to Sectionals. It is my understanding that if your team advances to any championship round beyond the local league, and you play in one of these matches, you are now benchmarked. Previously you could not appeal a B rating. Now it appears you can. Not quite sure what a B designation means now.

wrxinsc
11-29-2010, 01:12 PM
Well, when I say State, I guess I mean Districts. We have our local league, then "State"/district tournament where all local leagues in our state go play to earn the right to go to Sectionals. It is my understanding that if your team advances to any championship round beyond the local league, and you play in one of these matches, you are now benchmarked. Previously you could not appeal a B rating. Now it appears you can. Not quite sure what a B designation means now.

B ratings are an important part of the ratings process. not sure if it matters whether you can appeal or not. Probably someone involved with the system doesn't care one way or the other about that, just how it factors into the algorithm...

<snip>
"The basic mathematical algorithm has not changed. The computer still looks at your match scores and not whether you won or lost the match. Significant procedural changes apply in Dynamic NTRP, however. Where historically, your final rating was a function exclusively of your results at the highest level of competition entered, under Dynamic NTRP “final” ratings are based 50% on your cumulative dynamic rating entering an event and 50% on the traditional “benchmark” calculation method."</snip>

ian2
11-29-2010, 02:06 PM
Did you get to play in the playoffs?

Yes, I played three matches in the round-robin part, one single and two dubs.

max8176
11-29-2010, 02:11 PM
I only played in local playoffs and lost. When I try to appeal the computer denied my request and claimed benchmark or not appealable. Anyone knows how come? I didn't play in Districts and I thought the benchmark rule only applies to Districts and beyond.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 02:19 PM
<snip>
"The basic mathematical algorithm has not changed. The computer still looks at your match scores and not whether you won or lost the match. Significant procedural changes apply in Dynamic NTRP, however. Where historically, your final rating was a function exclusively of your results at the highest level of competition entered, under Dynamic NTRP “final” ratings are based 50% on your cumulative dynamic rating entering an event and 50% on the traditional “benchmark” calculation method."</snip>
I believe that it is 20% of your rating if you play 1 Benchmark match, 40% of your rating if you play 2 Benchmark matches and 50% of your rating if you play 3 or more Benchmark matches.

Scroll down to about the 4th paragraph in this document:

http://assets.usta.com/assets/558/Microsites/dps/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_90_184.pdf

BustedString
11-29-2010, 02:19 PM
I only played in local playoffs and lost. When I try to appeal the computer denied my request and claimed benchmark or not appealable. Anyone knows how come? I didn't play in Districts and I thought the benchmark rule only applies to Districts and beyond.

Per my Section, flight play-offs count as an "area" championships and those, indeed, count towards the Benchmarks can't appeal rule.

max8176
11-29-2010, 02:33 PM
Per my Section, flight play-offs count as an "area" championships and those, indeed, count towards the Benchmarks can't appeal rule.

Where do I find those information? I am from Norcal.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 02:35 PM
Where do I find those information? I am from Norcal.

I just emailed a SECTION coordinator (not local or district) because they usually have the right answer, at least in my Section. Smart folks.

kylebarendrick
11-29-2010, 02:48 PM
I only played in local playoffs and lost. When I try to appeal the computer denied my request and claimed benchmark or not appealable. Anyone knows how come? I didn't play in Districts and I thought the benchmark rule only applies to Districts and beyond.

If you played more than 5 (or 6?) matches you cannot appeal. Did you get the bump to 4.5?

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 02:49 PM
Per my Section, flight play-offs count as an "area" championships and those, indeed, count towards the Benchmarks can't appeal rule.

Right, I always figured my local district was wrong last year when they said local leagues could appeal. Or they allowed something that should of not been allowed.

max8176
11-29-2010, 02:54 PM
If you played more than 5 (or 6?) matches you cannot appeal. Did you get the bump to 4.5?

Oh, really, if you played more than 6 matches you cannot appeal? I am not aware of that rule. I got bumped to 4.5.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 02:54 PM
Right, I always figured my local district was wrong last year when they said local leagues could appeal. Or they allowed something that should of not been allowed.
We made a majority vote to do flights in our city and I would have voted differently had I known the flight play-off losers (3 teams) would all be Benchmarks. Live and learn though.

kylebarendrick
11-29-2010, 02:58 PM
Oh, really, if you played more than 6 matches you cannot appeal? I am not aware of that rule. I got bumped to 4.5.

They made that rule last year. Congrats on the 4.5 though!

tennis4josh
11-29-2010, 03:09 PM
In Norcal you get a B rating if you played in any matches at sectionals. Win or lose does not matter, just the fact that you played a match at sectionals earns you a B rating.

max8176
11-29-2010, 03:16 PM
In Norcal you get a B rating if you played in any matches at sectionals. Win or lose does not matter, just the fact that you played a match at sectionals earns you a B rating.

Nope I didnt play in sectionals. I played for a team that made it to the second round playoffs but we lost so we didnt get to Districts.

BustedString
11-29-2010, 03:19 PM
Nope I didnt play in sectionals. I played for a team that made it to the second round playoffs but we lost so we didnt get to Districts.

To clarify, cross threads, if you make a flight playoff that is considered an "area" championships and you are a Benchmark. At least in most sections.

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 03:23 PM
We made a majority vote to do flights in our city and I would have voted differently had I known the flight play-off losers (3 teams) would all be Benchmarks. Live and learn though.

I dont think we ever get that option in our area. The LLC's are too excited about PLAYOFFS!!!!!

I think even at the local level, if you have around 24 teams or more, and you have a team that is going to those local playoffs year after year after year, you cant complain about too much if you cant appeal everyone. (and my team has been there two years in a row now and came up short by 4 points and this year by 6 with a default)

Maybe if you have a much smaller number like 12 and all you did was play one match, then that's kind of different, but in a big enough area to say you are 2nd or 3rd best in your whole entire city is somewhat of an accomplishment in of itself.

vizsla
11-29-2010, 03:25 PM
Ok, it was state (districts if you will), in the Southern section.

max8176
11-29-2010, 03:29 PM
To clarify, cross threads, if you make a flight playoff that is considered an "area" championships and you are a Benchmark. At least in most sections.

I dont think in Norcal local playoffs is counted. However, someone mentioned that if you play more than 6 matches then you cannot appeal? I dont think that is fair since the number of matches played shouldnt affect your rating.

kylebarendrick
11-29-2010, 03:36 PM
The logic is that if you have played a large number of matches, then your computer rating is considered "accurate" and there is no real basis to appeal.

max8176
11-29-2010, 04:44 PM
The logic is that if you have played a large number of matches, then your computer rating is considered "accurate" and there is no real basis to appeal.

Yeah, it might be accurate but it can still falls within the scale which they allow other players to appeal. Therefore, I think it is not fair.

JavierLW
11-29-2010, 04:48 PM
Yeah, it might be accurate but it can still falls within the scale which they allow other players to appeal. Therefore, I think it is not fair.

No, because those players have played less than 6 matches so it's less likely that their rating is accurate.

You cant say it's accurate but yet "not fair". What is fair is fair, how it deals with whatever your wants and desires are is a whole other story.......

rod99
11-29-2010, 06:07 PM
i was under the impression that if you played at states then you are a "B" and cannot appeal your rating. at least that was how it was last year.

i'm in NC and our 4.5 team played at states this past year. a guy on our team played in over 12 matches and got bumped to 5.0. he appealed it and it granted him a 4.5 rating. another guy on our team got bumped to 5.0, he appealed it, but it denied his appeal.

WTF?

BustedString
11-29-2010, 07:03 PM
i'm in NC and our 4.5 team played at states this past year. a guy on our team played in over 12 matches and got bumped to 5.0. he appealed it and it granted him a 4.5 rating. another guy on our team got bumped to 5.0, he appealed it, but it denied his appeal.

WTF?

As per the other thread, the USTA has identified an issue with certain Benchmark rating appeals being successful. They are going to correct the error and those erroneously granted appeals are going to be reversed. It is going to be sticky.

BustedString
11-30-2010, 01:28 PM
The B player who "won" his appeal yesterday from 4.5B down to 4.0A is back at 4.5B today. It appears the correction went through. For those who knew of B's that appealed down and won, did you see that in your area as well?

Islandtennis
11-30-2010, 02:44 PM
The B player who "won" his appeal yesterday from 4.5B down to 4.0A is back at 4.5B today. It appears the correction went through. For those who knew of B's that appealed down and won, did you see that in your area as well?


Yes and it also affected people who played in more than six matches. That has been corrected.

rod99
11-30-2010, 06:01 PM
The B player who "won" his appeal yesterday from 4.5B down to 4.0A is back at 4.5B today. It appears the correction went through. For those who knew of B's that appealed down and won, did you see that in your area as well?

yep. they're at the level they were before the appeal.