PDA

View Full Version : VS Gut mains and poly crosses


Pages : [1] 2 3

parasailing
12-10-2010, 12:27 PM
Based on all the great comments about the playability of this particular hybrid setup, I would like to know a good starting tension for the following setups. I usually string my PSTGT at 57lbs for a full multi stringbed and gut stringbed.

VS Gut 16 with Luxilon Alu Power 16L
VS Gut 16 with Prince Recoil 16
VS Gut 16 with WC Silverstring 17 gauge

ClubHoUno
12-10-2010, 01:45 PM
Based on all the great comments about the playability of this particular hybrid setup, I would like to know a good starting tension for the following setups. I usually string my PSTGT at 57lbs for a full multi stringbed and gut stringbed.

VS Gut with Luxilon Alu Power
VS Gut with Prince Recoil
VS Gut with WC Silverstring

Impossible to answer without knowing the gauge of the gut and Silverstring :)

If VSTeam 17 and Silverstring 1.20:

Vs 17 - Alu: 56 lbs - 54 lbs
Vs 17 - Recoil: 58 lbs - 56 lbs
Vs 17 - Silverstring 1.20: 57 lbs - 55 lbs

parasailing
12-10-2010, 02:17 PM
Impossible to answer without knowing the gauge of the gut and Silverstring :)

If VSTeam 17 and Silverstring 1.20:

Vs 17 - Alu: 56 lbs - 54 lbs
Vs 17 - Recoil: 58 lbs - 56 lbs
Vs 17 - Silverstring 1.20: 57 lbs - 55 lbs

ClubHoUno - thanks for reminding me about the gauge. I just updated my original post so once I get a range, I will string them up and let you guys know how they feel.

Steve Huff
12-10-2010, 04:51 PM
When I used a multi, I would string it at 60. I'm using Pacific Tough Gut 16 in the mains now. I have Pacific XForce 18 in the crosses of one racket and Solinco Tour Revolution 18 in the other. I have them strung at 61/57. Even with the lower tension in the crosses, these still feel a little stiffer than the all multi. I'll probably go to 60/55 next time.

parasailing
12-11-2010, 12:08 AM
Impossible to answer without knowing the gauge of the gut and Silverstring :)

If VSTeam 17 and Silverstring 1.20:

Vs 17 - Alu: 56 lbs - 54 lbs
Vs 17 - Recoil: 58 lbs - 56 lbs
Vs 17 - Silverstring 1.20: 57 lbs - 55 lbs

Is the reason Alu is at 54lbs and Recoil at 56lbs due to the stiffer string of Alu? I will take your settings and put them in VS Gut 16 and see how things play out.

ClubHoUno
12-11-2010, 02:43 AM
Is the reason Alu is at 54lbs and Recoil at 56lbs due to the stiffer string of Alu? I will take your settings and put them in VS Gut 16 and see how things play out.

Yes !

10char

nickarnold2000
12-11-2010, 03:08 AM
I've used a gut main before and IMO your average player can get away with using a better multi or syn gut as a main. If you've got all sorts of cash ok go for the gut

parasailing
12-11-2010, 11:26 PM
I've used a gut main before and IMO your average player can get away with using a better multi or syn gut as a main. If you've got all sorts of cash ok go for the gut

Actually I plan on also doing a multi main and poly cross but given all the great comments about playability of gut crossed with a poly, I need to find out what I have or have not been missing.

Mig1NC
12-12-2010, 06:03 AM
...your average player can get away with using a better multi or syn gut as a main. If you've got all sorts of cash ok go for the gut

I would disagree on the basis that your average player can get quite a lot more life out of gut than they would out of nylon since they will likely not break the string. Tension maintenance and elasticity will last significantly longer. Comfort, safety from injury and playability can last a very long time.

Unfortunately most average players don't realize the benefits of paying more up front for gut.

ClubHoUno
12-12-2010, 02:16 PM
I've used a gut main before and IMO your average player can get away with using a better multi or syn gut as a main. If you've got all sorts of cash ok go for the gut

I disagree.

Nat gut will hold tension better, feel far far better, be more durable and you don't feel the poly go dead so fast, when it's only used in the crosses as much as in a full job of poly.

parasailing
12-12-2010, 05:54 PM
So do you guys think this would be a good starting point for tension listed below?

VS Gut 16 at 57lbs with Luxilon Alu Power 16L at 54lbs
VS Gut 16 at 57lbs with Prince Recoil 16 at 56lbs
VS Gut 16 at 57lbs with WC Silverstring at 55lbs

ClubHoUno
12-12-2010, 08:56 PM
So do you guys think this would be a good starting point for tension listed below?

VS Gut 16 at 57lbs with Luxilon Alu Power 16L at 54lbs
VS Gut 16 at 57lbs with Prince Recoil 16 at 56lbs
VS Gut 16 at 57lbs with WC Silverstring at 55lbs

Yeahhhhhh :)

parasailing
12-12-2010, 09:29 PM
Yeahhhhhh :)

Thanks ClubHoUno for the suggestion. Once I get these strings on the racquet in the next couple of weeks, I will post my review.

parasailing
12-20-2010, 11:15 AM
I had a chance to hit with VS Gut with Recoil yesterday and I definitely felt more spin than using a multi. Slices on this setup was great and volleys were crisp and controlled. This setup definitely allowed me to hit harder and still keep the ball in play so gut mains and poly crosses is a great setup.

Compared to Kirschbaum Touch Multifiber 17, it felt a bit stiffer on my arm and I could feel slight soreness in my arm. I think I will need to lower the tension on the poly as it still might be a bit too stiff for my arm.

parasailing
01-23-2011, 10:39 PM
I tried another variation with VS team at 56lbs in the mains and Recoil at 52lbs in the crosses today. Compared to Polystar Energy, I felt that Energy provided more spin and was just as comfortable as this setup. The only one thing this gut/poly hybrid had on Energy was slices. Slices would go deep, low, and fast. It definitely grip the ball better and volleying was almost improved but for topsin, a full bed of Energy felt better.

I had problems keeping balls on my forehand in the court unlike Energy which would dip into the court at the last minute and didn't have as many balls sail on me. I might give VS Team and Energy in the cross a shot next time to see how this compares but definitely will not be going with Recoil anytime soon.

TimothyO
01-24-2011, 05:00 AM
parasailing....to avoid a duplicate thread hope you don't mind if I pggyback on yours. I have the exact same question!

Currently my standard setup is VS17 mains and Xcel 17 crosses. I had some arm issues back in the summer/fall which have since largely cleared up through changes in racquet, string, technique, and new PT routine.

So I'm thinking about buying an EXO3 Tour 100 16x18 and stringing with a gut/poly hybrid. I demo'd the Tour with full bed of NXT 17 at mid-tension and had zero arm problems. So I'm hoping that poly crosses will be ok too due to the 52 stiffness and larger head size.

Anyway, here's the plan:

Mains: VS 16 @ 53#

Cross: Hurricane Feel 16 @ ???#

Given the very different tension losses and stiffness ratings I'm not sure of the appropriate reference tension. Any advice?

J_aces
01-24-2011, 02:54 PM
I just got a good price on Babolat gut in 15 gauge. I know it will be more durable with a poly cross but will I still be able to get good spin even though it's in 15 gauge?

J_aces
01-24-2011, 02:54 PM
How big is the spin difference between gut in 15 and 16 gauge?

parasailing
01-24-2011, 09:05 PM
I have tried Tonic 15 gauge and VS Gut 16 and for me there was a difference in spin between the two gauges. They are more durable but you do give up a bit of that spin for it.

parasailing
04-17-2011, 11:58 PM
My current setup is VS Team at 58lbs with WC Silverstring at 54lbs. After a three hour break in, this string plays quite nice. The natural gut mains provide the power and is soft on the arm with the WC SS providing the additional spin that was lacking in a full natural gut setup. I will provide updates on this setup as time goes on but I would like some suggestions on which cross I should consider for future test setups.

I have read about WC Scorpion and WC B5E which intrigues me but I am concern about TT members who mention that B5E should be strung in the 40s which would be a huge difference between what I am stringing my VS Team at.

TimothyO
04-18-2011, 03:49 AM
Para...

I have some WC Silverstring 1.25 inbound and will hybrid with either Touch or Team.

Previously I found Team a little too springy in an open pattern. Now I have a PSLGT which is pretty dense.

Based on your experience with this hybrid so far any advice? Right now I'm thinking Team/Silverstring @ 52/48.

How's the string movement with Silverstring? Does the Team spring back nicely?

TaihtDuhShaat
04-18-2011, 09:31 AM
Para...

I have some WC Silverstring 1.25 inbound and will hybrid with either Touch or Team.

Previously I found Team a little too springy in an open pattern. Now I have a PSLGT which is pretty dense.

Based on your experience with this hybrid so far any advice? Right now I'm thinking Team/Silverstring @ 52/48.

How's the string movement with Silverstring? Does the Team spring back nicely?

I'm using a PSL with NRG 18/ silverstring 1.20 at 52.5/48.5 and the tension is perfect for this stick. I know its not gut but same concept. String movement is a non issue and the playability is just right. I liked scorpion even better as a cross.

mikeler
04-18-2011, 09:45 AM
My current setup is VS Team at 58lbs with WC Silverstring at 54lbs. After a three hour break in, this string plays quite nice. The natural gut mains provide the power and is soft on the arm with the WC SS providing the additional spin that was lacking in a full natural gut setup. I will provide updates on this setup as time goes on but I would like some suggestions on which cross I should consider for future test setups.

I have read about WC Scorpion and WC B5E which intrigues me but I am concern about TT members who mention that B5E should be strung in the 40s which would be a huge difference between what I am stringing my VS Team at.


Wow, 3 hours is a LONG break in period. What does PVAudio string his natural gut at?

dozu
04-18-2011, 09:53 AM
Wow, 3 hours is a LONG break in period. What does PVAudio string his natural gut at?

Bab guts do have quite long break-in period.

and I agree with the consensus here - mid 50's seem to be the ideal range for the gut, that's where it is the most 'gut-like', without giving too much power.

TimothyO
04-18-2011, 10:00 AM
I'm using a PSL with NRG 18/ silverstring 1.20 at 52.5/48.5 and the tension is perfect for this stick. I know its not gut but same concept. String movement is a non issue and the playability is just right. I liked scorpion even better as a cross.

Why did you prefer the Scorpion over the SS as a cross?

parasailing
04-18-2011, 10:38 AM
Para...

I have some WC Silverstring 1.25 inbound and will hybrid with either Touch or Team.

Previously I found Team a little too springy in an open pattern. Now I have a PSLGT which is pretty dense.

Based on your experience with this hybrid so far any advice? Right now I'm thinking Team/Silverstring @ 52/48.

How's the string movement with Silverstring? Does the Team spring back nicely?

I went with the 17 gauge Silverstring so there might be a bit more movement than the 16 gauge you are going with. If this maintains tension, this will be the control racquet to compare for future string tests. Natural gut at 52lbs is going to be way too much power. I would suggest you up it to at least 55lbs and put SS at around 51lbs. You will probably have a longer break in period at slightly lower tenison as well.

As far as open pattern, yes it is springy but you would adjust by upping the tension to deal with that. My PSTGT is 16x20 which is pretty open and having gut at less than 58lbs is just way too much power.

parasailing
04-18-2011, 10:41 AM
Wow, 3 hours is a LONG break in period. What does PVAudio string his natural gut at?

I think it's mainly the SS that gives me the longer break in period. I know if this was a full bed of VS Team, it would take me about an hour to settle in the strings compared to Pacific Tough Gut which took me about 4 hours to settle in and with that string I never did get increase durability people were mentioning. But WC SS is a crisp poly so it's not like Polystar Energy or one of the soft polys and takes a while to break in.

After the 3 hour break in period, it plays well, time will tell how long this last before the crosses go dead.

mikeler
04-18-2011, 11:23 AM
I think it's mainly the SS that gives me the longer break in period. I know if this was a full bed of VS Team, it would take me about an hour to settle in the strings compared to Pacific Tough Gut which took me about 4 hours to settle in and with that string I never did get increase durability people were mentioning. But WC SS is a crisp poly so it's not like Polystar Energy or one of the soft polys and takes a while to break in.

After the 3 hour break in period, it plays well, time will tell how long this last before the crosses go dead.


PVAudio did his setup at 55/57 and loved it. Might be a good starting point for you:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5298876&postcount=262

parasailing
04-18-2011, 12:03 PM
PVAudio did his setup at 55/57 and loved it. Might be a good starting point for you:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5298876&postcount=262

Thanks for the exact link. I will be ordering a couple sets of B5E and Scorpion to test out in both a full bed and hybrid with gut setup.

mikeler
04-18-2011, 12:20 PM
Thanks for the exact link. I will be ordering a couple sets of B5E and Scorpion to test out in both a full bed and hybrid with gut setup.


Looking forward to reading your thoughts on both of those. The B5E is just far and away better than any setup I've ever used. I still want to try out a few more soft polys just to make sure I'm not missing something better.

stringertom
04-18-2011, 04:34 PM
I joined into the abovementioned thread several weeks ago because the conversation was pegged in to the type of set-up I use. The thread is buried 3 or 4 pages deep now but if a couple of you visit and post, we can bring it back to first page status. There's a lot of good info in it!

parasailing
04-19-2011, 10:51 AM
I joined into the abovementioned thread several weeks ago because the conversation was pegged in to the type of set-up I use. The thread is buried 3 or 4 pages deep now but if a couple of you visit and post, we can bring it back to first page status. There's a lot of good info in it!

Where do you get your Bow Brand from? I spoke to Bow and they are looking for a different manufacturer for their gut strings so whatever you have might change again.

TaihtDuhShaat
04-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Why did you prefer the Scorpion over the SS as a cross?

Something about the feel of scorpion and it's easy combo of pace/control compared to the silverstring. The silverstring does everything well but the scorpion has a great feel.

parasailing
04-19-2011, 01:10 PM
Something about the feel of scorpion and it's easy combo of pace/control compared to the silverstring. The silverstring does everything well but the scorpion has a great feel.

So is scorpion softer than SS and does it maintain tension as well as SS?

parasailing
05-15-2011, 10:28 PM
Guess no one has feedback on Scorpion but just another update on my VS Team mains and WC Silverstring. I initially review this string and didn't really think WC SS was anything special. But after 12 hours hitting with this racquet, it now has soften up to the point where it feels really nice. The SS does not notch into the gut mains and has made them last considerably longer than if using a full bed of natural gut.

I did not even put string savers on this particular racquet and the strings show no significant signs of fraying. So the only downside for me about WC SS is the substantial break in time before SS softens up as tension maintenance is still good even after 12 hours of hitting.

tennisinoc
05-16-2011, 10:33 AM
12 hour break in time! No wonder I cut mine out after 4 hours. I can't wait that long for a break in time. Gosen Micro 17 cross for me is NO brake in time and better feel and control.

parasailing
05-16-2011, 08:06 PM
12 hour break in time! No wonder I cut mine out after 4 hours. I can't wait that long for a break in time. Gosen Micro 17 cross for me is NO brake in time and better feel and control.

It is probably due to the tension I put on the strings and need to probably fine tune it a bit with the WC SS since this was my first time using such a setup. I should have probably strung it about 5lbs lower for the WC SS since it is a crisper string which I do not like in a natural gut setup. If this were a full natural gut setup, it would take about an hour to break in and play well throughout.

GlenK
05-17-2011, 05:01 AM
I'm using Supersense in the x's at the moment. But when it runs out I'll switch x's to Scorpion. I like Scorpion in a full bed, and "think" it will work well with the gut.
Still playing with the tension on this set up. Started at 54/52, but will up the gut to 55 next. I've got 12 hours on the set up now and it's still playing great.

JackB1
05-17-2011, 06:33 AM
You guys think nat gut/ syngut will play softer than nat gut / copoly?

parasailing
05-17-2011, 09:49 AM
I'm using Supersense in the x's at the moment. But when it runs out I'll switch x's to Scorpion. I like Scorpion in a full bed, and "think" it will work well with the gut.
Still playing with the tension on this set up. Started at 54/52, but will up the gut to 55 next. I've got 12 hours on the set up now and it's still playing great.

So how long does the hybrid setup of natural gut and Scorpion take to break in? I will try this setup next time I restring one of my racquets.

Lambsscroll
05-17-2011, 10:14 AM
Guess no one has feedback on Scorpion but just another update on my VS Team mains and WC Silverstring. I initially review this string and didn't really think WC SS was anything special. But after 12 hours hitting with this racquet, it now has soften up to the point where it feels really nice. The SS does not notch into the gut mains and has made them last considerably longer than if using a full bed of natural gut.

I did not even put string savers on this particular racquet and the strings show no significant signs of fraying. So the only downside for me about WC SS is the substantial break in time before SS softens up as tension maintenance is still good even after 12 hours of hitting.

Sounds like I'll be trying WC Silverstring. The Poly Nova 17 I use in the cross seems to work well but I think SS wont saw through the gut as much.

GlenK
05-17-2011, 10:49 AM
I have not used the Scorpion yet with the VS. I used it in a full bed while searching for a new set up. It was my favorite full bed poly.
Now when SS runs out, I'll switch to Scoprion. It was very similar to SS in full bed so I'm thinking it will be equally as good for x's.

We'll see, fingers are crossed...

dadozen
05-17-2011, 11:49 AM
I have used VS Team / Scorpion 1.22 for a while and it was a great setup. I just gave up on this because the cost was too high for me.

parasailing
05-17-2011, 12:29 PM
I have used VS Team / Scorpion 1.22 for a while and it was a great setup. I just gave up on this because the cost was too high for me.

What was you tension for the VS mains and scorpion crosses?

Bahama Scott
05-17-2011, 03:04 PM
Parasailing, my setup is Aeropro Drive Cortex Scorpion 1.22 48lbs X VS 17 52lbs. It took a couple of hours to break in and I now have about 15 hours and it is just great....spin, power, control, love the feel but that's my deal. On my next setup I am going to drop both tensions down 2 pounds but next time I am going to use the WT 1.2

mctennis
05-17-2011, 04:24 PM
I use that at 59/57. It took me about an hour or less to break this string set in.

Bahama Scott
05-17-2011, 04:33 PM
I originally strung it at 54/58. It was really unbelievable for about 10 hours BUT then the tension fell off dramatically and it took a lot of adjusting to compensate for the extra power. Weiss STRONGLY recommends 52 pounds max. At my current tension, it wasn't quite as remarkable at first (still better than anything else including full VS gut) but I have not noticed any real degradation in the performance so far.

TennisCJC
05-18-2011, 07:18 AM
Bab Tonic + Ball Feel is significantly less $ than VS and it plays great. Tension would vary based on your racket but I would try the gut at 55 and poly's at 51 to start with. Try the to keep the poly tension in the 52 or less range if possible as it's way better for the arm and last longer.

dadozen
05-18-2011, 07:44 AM
What was you tension for the VS mains and scorpion crosses?

Para, I was using 52/49. When I raised the tension to 56/53, the stringjob broke in less than 2h.

I was going to try something like 48/44, but then I decided to go with full polys.

parasailing
05-18-2011, 02:57 PM
Para, I was using 52/49. When I raised the tension to 56/53, the stringjob broke in less than 2h.

I was going to try something like 48/44, but then I decided to go with full polys.

Which string broke, the main or the cross?

parasailing
05-26-2011, 05:28 PM
My VS Team/WC SS have now logged over 20 hours and it plays great. I know there has been tension loss in the SS crosses but it is still very comfortable and still plays fine. I do notice one of the mains starting to fray and looks like I might be get a couple hours more before they snap.

TimothyO
05-26-2011, 06:59 PM
My VS Team/WC SS have now logged over 20 hours and it plays great. I know there has been tension loss in the SS crosses but it is still very comfortable and still plays fine. I do notice one of the mains starting to fray and looks like I might be get a couple hours more before they snap.

What's the frame and tension?

I have a Speed MP 18x20 inbound from TW* and am considering Team instead of my usual Touch mains. I used Team once back in the fall and that was my only experience.

*technically it arrived but warped/bent. It was so severe I noticed it the moment I took it out of the bag! Sent back for exchange. Their pickers/packers must work fast to have missed it. Or can. frame warp in shipping?

parasailing
05-26-2011, 11:15 PM
What's the frame and tension?

I have a Speed MP 18x20 inbound from TW* and am considering Team instead of my usual Touch mains. I used Team once back in the fall and that was my only experience.

*technically it arrived but warped/bent. It was so severe I noticed it the moment I took it out of the bag! Sent back for exchange. Their pickers/packers must work fast to have missed it. Or can. frame warp in shipping?

I use a Babolat Pure Storm Tour GT strung at 56lbs on VS mains and 52lbs on WC SS. The first few hours I didn't like the feel or the playability but as the tension settle in and probably the WC SS soften up, it started to play better. I have about 22 hours on the racquet and notice significant amount of fraying. I think it's time for me to start putting string savers on there to see if I can perserve it a little longer.

parasailing
05-30-2011, 10:56 PM
I put in an order for VS Team 17 BT7 technology so I will post back when I get a chance to compare it against non BT7 strings. I will be using Scorpion as the cross for both and we shall see how they play.

dadozen
05-31-2011, 04:46 AM
Which string broke, the main or the cross?

Para, the gut broke in 2 stringjobs in less than 2h. Actually, it was something like 1h15. It was way faster than the stringjobs @ 52/49.

ben123
05-31-2011, 06:23 AM
I put in an order for VS Team 17 BT7 technology so I will post back when I get a chance to compare it against non BT7 strings. I will be using Scorpion as the cross for both and we shall see how they play.

good to hear im awaiting ur results :)

quest01
05-31-2011, 06:36 AM
My current setup on my BLX90's are Wilson Champions Choice hybrid with Wilson Natural gut 16g in the mains and Luxilon ALU Rough 16L in the crosses.

kiteboard
05-31-2011, 07:25 AM
I have pt57a and h22 strung with vs team mains/silver string, scorpion, nrg2, x1 biphase. I like the vs team/nrg2 the most, and the scorpion has the most power, but the nrg2 cross the most control.

parasailing
05-31-2011, 11:44 PM
I have pt57a and h22 strung with vs team mains/silver string, scorpion, nrg2, x1 biphase. I like the vs team/nrg2 the most, and the scorpion has the most power, but the nrg2 cross the most control.

Which cross lasted the longest? My current setup of vs team mains and sliverstring crosses has lasted me an amazing 22 hours of play. This is better than using a full set of natural gut which lasts me on average about 8 to 10 hours. I do notice that the silverstring is pretty much dead but the vs mains are still playing well though significant fraying is starting to occur.

TimothyO
06-01-2011, 07:18 AM
How can you tell the poly crosses specifically are dead?

kiteboard
06-01-2011, 07:31 AM
Shots start trampolining out. The poly crosses are the tensioners. When they lose tension, the whole string job goes bad. I restring the crosses, due to vs guts amazing ability to hold almost all its tension. Which one lasts the longest? I don't know, due to the fact I cut them out long before they break and restring the crosses. The fav. one right now, with the nrg2, I've restrung 5 times, and it feels very good.

parasailing
06-01-2011, 10:50 AM
I did notice that it's becoming more frequent that the balls are starting to sail longer and further away from the courts. I guess I should just cut the cross out and restring. Thanks for your insight kiteboard.

kiteboard
06-01-2011, 02:22 PM
You have to lock down and prestress the frame before cutting out crosses, and make sure that the gut is not frayed too badly, and don't burn in when stringing, by moving the crosses way up out of the notch path. Gut is the only string you can do this with, due to all others losing too much tension, and stressing out the frame when crosses are strung too tight compared to the mains.

parasailing
06-01-2011, 03:23 PM
You have to lock down and prestress the frame before cutting out crosses, and make sure that the gut is not frayed too badly, and don't burn in when stringing, by moving the crosses way up out of the notch path. Gut is the only string you can do this with, due to all others losing too much tension, and stressing out the frame when crosses are strung too tight compared to the mains.

Thanks for the tips, never tried restring the crosses before but will give this a go next time. I think my mains are too frayed to try this. How does one pre-stress the frame before cutting out the crosses?

kiteboard
06-01-2011, 07:30 PM
Before you lock down on the front/rear clamps, loosen the set screws on the stringer, so you can pull on the frame and prestress it, and then lock it down again, so it can't slip, as if you are installing a new frame that's a different size!

JackB1
06-02-2011, 06:09 AM
How can you tell the poly crosses specifically are dead?

I also use gut mains and copoly crosses and have a hard time telling when the copoly crosses are going dead. But the mains usually break or I will just restring anyway after about a month of playing 3-4 times per week. The gut mains tend to "mask" the copoly's "deadness". I find it really hard to tell.

parasailing
06-02-2011, 02:02 PM
I also use gut mains and copoly crosses and have a hard time telling when the copoly crosses are going dead. But the mains usually break or I will just restring anyway after about a month of playing 3-4 times per week. The gut mains tend to "mask" the copoly's "deadness". I find it really hard to tell.

On my PSTGT, I can feel the racquet producing more pinging than before. I think it has to do with the crosses becoming boardy and losing substantial tension.

I definitely agree that the gut does a great job of masking most of the effects but I can definitely feel the difference between hitting with it around 8 to 18 hour range and now into the 20 plus hour mark. This is very subjective and you might not even noticed it on your racquet.

TimothyO
06-02-2011, 03:09 PM
Shots start trampolining out. The poly crosses are the tensioners. When they lose tension, the whole string job goes bad. I restring the crosses, due to vs guts amazing ability to hold almost all its tension. Which one lasts the longest? I don't know, due to the fact I cut them out long before they break and restring the crosses. The fav. one right now, with the nrg2, I've restrung 5 times, and it feels very good.

I have zero knowledge of stringing techniques. Is it ok to cut out the poly crosses while leaving the gu mains intact? Any danger to the frame or special skill required?

parasailing
06-06-2011, 12:51 AM
I finally opened up the BT7 package of VS Team and I can't see a visual difference between the current and BT7 package. They look identical but there is a slight difference in feel when i started to prestretch both strings. The BT7 does feel a tad stiffer and isn't as springy as the non BT7 string.

I am stringing both up with Scorpion crosses so will post a review when weather gets better and I can actually hit some.

JackB1
06-06-2011, 05:56 AM
I have zero knowledge of stringing techniques. Is it ok to cut out the poly crosses while leaving the gu mains intact? Any danger to the frame or special skill required?

You will get both answers on this. But if you do try it, make sure you mount your racquet first and then cut out the crosses and restring. That will minimise any frame distortion.

I woould only do it of the gut was fairly new and the crosses popped.
Otherwise I would just restring the whole thing. This scenario rarely happens with me, as the gut always breaks first or it lasts until the poly dies.
Either way, I restring about every 4 weeks either way.

levy1
06-06-2011, 06:57 AM
Actually I plan on also doing a multi main and poly cross but given all the great comments about playability of gut crossed with a poly, I need to find out what I have or have not been missing.

The natural gut crossed with a poly is the best setup in MO. In addition the best and highest rated string combo at TW is a natural gut/poly combo. I switched to Klip legend for the price and it works great for me. Comes out to 12.50 and half set for the gut. I string the gut at my normal tension and then go down 5 lbs for the poly.

levy1
06-06-2011, 06:59 AM
You will get both answers on this. But if you do try it, make sure you mount your racquet first and then cut out the crosses and restring. That will minimise any frame distortion.

I woould only do it of the gut was fairly new and the crosses popped.
Otherwise I would just restring the whole thing. This scenario rarely happens with me, as the gut always breaks first or it lasts until the poly dies.
Either way, I restring about every 4 weeks either way.

I am a fairly new stringer but due to the info on this forum I have cut out several crosses with my natural gut mains with no problem ever. Even with very frayed gut mains.

parasailing
06-06-2011, 11:13 PM
I was able to hit with the VS Team mains at 57lbs and WC Scorpion crosses at 52lbs tonight. Initial thoughts are it is much softer on the arm than the VS Team and WC Silverstring setup. It has a more plush feel than WC Silverstring. However, there were times when the ball would sail on me and I had to put more topspin to keep it in play and couldn't really hit out on the ball like I can with Silverstring.

So basically, if you looking for a little more plush setup and can put topspin on the ball, go with Scorpion. If you are more of flat hitter, go with Silverstring.

APG
06-07-2011, 05:04 AM
Para..I am playing with full gut Babolat Black.
It feels much stiffer but then again I am playing with a new racket, the X10 325. Have you had a chance to compare with old formulation.
Looking to go as soft as possible with GE. Thinking of cutting it out and going with the VS Team, non-BT7. Perhaps difference is minimal?
Thanks.

TimothyO
06-07-2011, 06:30 AM
Para..I am playing with full gut Babolat Black.
It feels much stiffer but then again I am playing with a new racket, the X10 325. Have you had a chance to compare with old formulation.
Looking to go as soft as possible with GE. Thinking of cutting it out and going with the VS Team, non-BT7. Perhaps difference is minimal?
Thanks.

I tested both side-by-side. BT7 is stiffer but not so stiff as to be a factor in GE/TE (I've suffered from arm problems). It's more about a difference in feel. It's minimal (tiny/insignificant!) from a GE/TE perspective but very significant from a touch/feel perspective. I miss VS classic but am now ok with VS black/BT7.

ben123
06-07-2011, 06:45 AM
I tested both side-by-side. BT7 is stiffer but not so stiff as to be a factor in GE/TE (I've suffered from arm problems). It's more about a difference in feel. It's minimal (tiny/insignificant!) from a GE/TE perspective but very significant from a touch/feel perspective. I miss VS classic but am now ok with VS black/BT7.

did u test only black bt7 or natural bt7 too?

parasailing
06-07-2011, 11:04 PM
Second day with this VS Team/WC Scorpion setup and the stringbed is even more plush. I think the string bed has settled in and it is a very comfortable setup. It has lots of power but balls tend to sail. If you are a flat hitter, go with the VS Team/WC Silverstring for more control.

CycloneSh0t
06-08-2011, 10:34 PM
does anyone know any cheaper alternatives to the vs gut that feels similar to a multi??

parasailing
06-08-2011, 11:49 PM
does anyone know any cheaper alternatives to the vs gut that feels similar to a multi??

If you looking for gut that is similar to multi, why don't you just buy a multi since it is much cheaper than gut:confused:.

parasailing
06-10-2011, 12:44 AM
I had a chance to string up BT7 VS Team mains at 57lbs and WC B5E at 52lbs. I have to say BT7 technology has made the string a bit stiffer but not to the point of Pacific Tough Gut. That was a stiff natural gut string that I didn't particular like the feel until it took about 3 hours to break in which ended up breaking in 8 hours.

The BT7 gut is a bit crispier than the non BT7 but it is not harsh. Keep in mind I didn't put a full set so mileage may vary but I had the B5E as a cross and it didn't feel harsh or stiff.

So if you like the original plush VS Team feel, then better stock up on what's left.

Compared to VS Team/WC Scoprion setup, B5E setup has more control and less power so you can swing for the fences. WC Scorpion setup is softer on the arm and feels rally plush.

GlenK
06-10-2011, 03:46 AM
Just great.. I finally start playing gut again and they change it. Haven't tried the new BT7 yet but that does not sound encouraging..

parasailing
06-11-2011, 10:11 PM
Just great.. I finally start playing gut again and they change it. Haven't tried the new BT7 yet but that does not sound encouraging..

I am pretty sure if you use it in a hybrid, you won't feel it much like I have. But if you put it in a full bed, who knows, it might be stiffer then you would like.

Viking_Golfer
06-12-2011, 11:49 AM
I experiment with VS Team 17 mains and either Alu Rough or Black Savagae in the crosses.
I like both polys as cross strings :)

Alu Rough is a bit more powerful, while the Savage gives a more muted feel.

dadozen
06-12-2011, 09:35 PM
Since I've changed from the 4D100 to the BM200( 18 mains and a very dense string pattern ), I'm thinking about trying gut/poly again.

I still have a 1.35 VS Touch set, I just need to decide which poly string I'll put on the crosses( lot of options: Scorpion 1.28, 1.33, Mosquito Bite, Tornado 1.17, SPPP 1.18 )

parasailing
06-13-2011, 11:33 PM
After 5 hours of hitting with VS Team BT 7 and B5E, I think this is my go to hybrid. Although the VS Team BT 7 is a bit stiffer than the regular VS Team, with B5E as a cross, it isn't stiff enough to justify having to hoard the old VS Team string before they run out.

In addition, I find that the having the B5E in cross has help with control and allows me to hit out more often than Scorpion crosses. I find the Scorpion cross to be too powerful and hard to keep the ball in the court. B5E also enhances the top spin slightly more than Scorpion.

So the only question is whether B5E will last as long as Silverstring. If it is anywhere close to Silverstring, I will be using B5E as my preferred cross with VS Team mains.

parasailing
07-12-2011, 02:20 PM
I am now wavering between WC Scorpion and WC B5E. Both have great tension maintenance and I would highly recommend either as a cross for VS Team mains.

I think I will keep both setup depending on weather conditions. Scorpion is more susceptible to changing temperatures. It plays a bit stiffer when the temperature drops in the to low 50s whereas B5E is more uniform regardless of the temps. I find that Scorpion has a bit more pop and B5E has more control.

I am waiting on another PSTGT so I can put in Silverstring and compare against these two at the same time.

niktub
07-16-2011, 09:04 AM
Hi
will Babolat stop producing the regular VS team?
:-?
Wilson will change also i suppose...

parasailing
07-16-2011, 10:19 PM
^^^^ I don't think Babolat will make both types going forward though someone with industry knowledge could chime in but I noticed some online stores are only showing the BT7 ones.

I guess I will keep both string setups for the time being as it depends on the temperature during the day.

VS mains with WC Scorpion plays better in warmer temperature and is slightly more powerful setup.

VS mains with WC B5E plays better in colder temperature and offers more control.

TimothyO
07-18-2011, 07:06 AM
Hi
will Babolat stop producing the regular VS team?
:-?
Wilson will change also i suppose...

Classic VS Team is no more. BT7 is it. There might be some classic in the supply chain still. I know TW had some for awhile. At our local shops all non-BT7 has sold out and everyone stocks BT7 only.

I wasn't thrilled with BT7 Touch. But on a whim I tried BT7 Team. Previously I found Team a little too powerful for me. This stiffer version actually works for me, at least in a dense pattern such as the PSLGT. Haven't tried BT7 Team in an open pattern yet since I'm now a dense pattern fan. :)

GlenK
07-18-2011, 08:20 AM
^^Encouraging. I've got enough orig VS team 17 to get me through the summer so I guess fall will be when I give this stuff a shot.
I was planning on switching to Wilson, but your comments give me hope.

JackB1
07-18-2011, 08:54 AM
^^^^ I don't think Babolat will make both types going forward though someone with industry knowledge could chime in but I noticed some online stores are only showing the BT7 ones.

I guess I will keep both string setups for the time being as it depends on the temperature during the day.

VS mains with WC Scorpion plays better in warmer temperature and is slightly more powerful setup.

VS mains with WC B5E plays better in colder temperature and offers more control.

I use nat gut mains and have been testing some soft copoly crosses...

-Black Magic is very soft and also very powerful. Great for lower powered racquets

-Kirsch Proline 2 is always a good choice. Nice power level and holds tension great.

-Scorpion is another great choice...good power and soft

-MSC Focus Hex is a good economical choice. Was a little low powered for me.
-

jjs891
07-18-2011, 09:54 AM
Is Kirsch PL2 known to hold tension very well? Sure didn't seem like for me??? I liked the way it played though.

parasailing
07-18-2011, 10:41 AM
Since we are on the topic of poly crosses, I think given that natural gut is in the mains, we should all be looking for that poly that offers good to great tension maintenance as a basic requirement to finding a good co-poly.

So far, I am looking for a string that is less temperature sensitive than Scorpion. Scorpion plays great in warm to hot weather buti in cold weather, it feels really stiff and does not have that elastic feel. More so than B5E I currently have strung up on the other hybrid setup.

parasailing
07-20-2011, 10:49 PM
Has anyone tried Volkl Vpro or WC Mosquito Bite as a cross?

smirker
07-21-2011, 02:02 AM
Since we are on the topic of poly crosses, I think given that natural gut is in the mains, we should all be looking for that poly that offers good to great tension maintenance as a basic requirement to finding a good co-poly.

This is a very valid point given that gut is known for it's tension holding qualities. Poly's in contrast are not reknowned for holding tension (even new generation polys don't hold tension well in comparison to a good synthetic gut) so should we not be looking to pair gut mains with a crisp syn gut that holds tension well?

It is all very well for pros to use gut/poly hybrids as they change racquets so frequently so tension loss is not so much of an issue. My feeling is that rec players would gain enhanced performance from hybriding gut with a solid syn gut or a crisp multi such as RIP control.

What are other people's thoughts on this?

Mig1NC
07-21-2011, 03:29 AM
I also use Prince Recoil as a cross with natural gut mains. This combo gets mixed reviews here. Some love it. Some hate it. Some find it just average.

I rather like it myself. Recoil is a stiff syngut with a slick gore wrap (not a coating that should wear off).

Boricua
07-21-2011, 04:58 AM
Since we are on the topic of poly crosses, I think given that natural gut is in the mains, we should all be looking for that poly that offers good to great tension maintenance as a basic requirement to finding a good co-poly.

This is a very valid point given that gut is known for it's tension holding qualities. Poly's in contrast are not reknowned for holding tension (even new generation polys don't hold tension well in comparison to a good synthetic gut) so should we not be looking to pair gut mains with a crisp syn gut that holds tension well?

It is all very well for pros to use gut/poly hybrids as they change racquets so frequently so tension loss is not so much of an issue. My feeling is that rec players would gain enhanced performance from hybriding gut with a solid syn gut or a crisp multi such as RIP control.

What are other people's thoughts on this?

Considering price and durability, maybe a good gut main and as a cross a good and cheap synthetic gut as Gosen OG Sheep Micro.

Anyone recommend this hybrid?

TimothyO
07-21-2011, 05:42 AM
Since we are on the topic of poly crosses, I think given that natural gut is in the mains, we should all be looking for that poly that offers good to great tension maintenance as a basic requirement to finding a good co-poly.

So far, I am looking for a string that is less temperature sensitive than Scorpion. Scorpion plays great in warm to hot weather buti in cold weather, it feels really stiff and does not have that elastic feel. More so than B5E I currently have strung up on the other hybrid setup.

No problems with CoFocus on the durability front. If anything it seems to be "aging" nicely with the VS Team. The PSLGT is producing more spin and better playability the longer the strings have been in.

On a related note has anyone else noticed that this gut/poly setup plays sort of stiff out of the tennis bag for a few minutes? It's almost as if the strings need to be warmed up with some hitting. It's no big deal but I have noticed the first minute or two things are a little boardy and less responsive and then suddenly everything is back to normal.

And on one more related note I dropped the tension on my MP 18x20 to 50m/46x. There was a HUGE leap in spin potential. My serves are the best they've ever been and spin is just incredible, even with a "dense" pattern. I finally managed to hit a top spin lob which curved down and sideways out of the air and in bounds. It looked like a UFO whizzing around. My wife and I were convinced the shot was heading over the fence but it stay in.

Boricua
07-21-2011, 06:00 AM
No problems with CoFocus on the durability front. If anything it seems to be "aging" nicely with the VS Team. The PSLGT is producing more spin and better playability the longer the strings have been in.

On a related note has anyone else noticed that this gut/poly setup plays sort of stiff out of the tennis bag for a few minutes? It's almost as if the strings need to be warmed up with some hitting. It's no big deal but I have noticed the first minute or two things are a little boardy and less responsive and then suddenly everything is back to normal.

And on one more related note I dropped the tension on my MP 18x20 to 50m/46x. There was a HUGE leap in spin potential. My serves are the best they've ever been and spin is just incredible, even with a "dense" pattern. I finally managed to hit a top spin lob which curved down and sideways out of the air and in bounds. It looked like a UFO whizzing around. My wife and I were convinced the shot was heading over the fence but it stay in.

How many playing hours are you getting? Why do you prefer the CoFocus over the Focus Hex?

parasailing
07-21-2011, 10:00 AM
I also use Prince Recoil as a cross with natural gut mains. This combo gets mixed reviews here. Some love it. Some hate it. Some find it just average.

I rather like it myself. Recoil is a stiff syngut with a slick gore wrap (not a coating that should wear off).

I don't like it as it felt stiff and the slick gore wrap didn't last very long and the string just felt like a regular syn gut.

Once the slippery coating is no longer there, it will saw into the VS mains which happen to me and it only lasted about 12 hours compared to over 20 hours using a smooth copoly.

parasailing
07-21-2011, 10:02 AM
Considering price and durability, maybe a good gut main and as a cross a good and cheap synthetic gut as Gosen OG Sheep Micro.

Anyone recommend this hybrid?

The only issue I have with using a syn gut is it's stiffer to me and also it causes friction since it is not smooth like a copoly thus reducing the life of the natural gut string.

JT_2eighty
07-21-2011, 10:49 AM
Has anyone tried Volkl Vpro or WC Mosquito Bite as a cross?

I've us MBite in a cross with gut mains. Definitely the most powerful poly cross I have tried. Soft and too powerful, especially as it lost tension. It would be a great string for doubles/ s&v style players.

parasailing
07-21-2011, 01:12 PM
I've us MBite in a cross with gut mains. Definitely the most powerful poly cross I have tried. Soft and too powerful, especially as it lost tension. It would be a great string for doubles/ s&v style players.

So is it more powerful than using WC Scorpion in the crosses? Did you use the 18 gauge version of MB as well?

JT_2eighty
07-21-2011, 01:17 PM
I've only used Scorpion as full bed, and MB as cross string with gut mains, so I cannot compare the two exactly like that (although based on my experience and other reviews, MB sounds to be more powerful than Scorpion).

MB only comes in one gauge, 18 (1.16). When fresh, I hit some of the best serves of my life, but as I recall it did not hold tension as well as other WC polys.

Boricua
07-21-2011, 08:08 PM
I don't like it as it felt stiff and the slick gore wrap didn't last very long and the string just felt like a regular syn gut.

Once the slippery coating is no longer there, it will saw into the VS mains which happen to me and it only lasted about 12 hours compared to over 20 hours using a smooth copoly.

What copoly do you recommned as cross with gut mains, B5E?

Smasher08
07-23-2011, 10:21 AM
MSV Co-Focus. Nice and slippery with no texture.

parasailing
07-24-2011, 12:23 AM
What copoly do you recommned as cross with gut mains, B5E?

I have this combination and so far it's the baseline setup to compare against others. Right now, i find VS with Scorpion to be the softest and powerful when strung in temps over 60 degrees. Below that and it gets kinda stiff.

B5E plays more consistent and has more control but not as much power as Scorpion.

I will let you know how Black Magic plays in the cross when I hit with it tomorrow.

There aren't that many copoly that are soft and offer great tension maintenance which are the two traits I look for from other people's experiences before trying them out.

Boricua
07-24-2011, 07:37 AM
I have this combination and so far it's the baseline setup to compare against others. Right now, i find VS with Scorpion to be the softest and powerful when strung in temps over 60 degrees. Below that and it gets kinda stiff.

B5E plays more consistent and has more control but not as much power as Scorpion.

I will let you know how Black Magic plays in the cross when I hit with it tomorrow.

There aren't that many copoly that are soft and offer great tension maintenance which are the two traits I look for from other people's experiences before trying them out.

Have you considered Signum Pro Poly Plasma as a cross with gut mains? Ive heard it holds tension well.

parasailing
07-24-2011, 08:36 AM
Have you considered Signum Pro Poly Plasma as a cross with gut mains? Ive heard it holds tension well.

I read mixed results with this string on this forum so I am holding off until I know someone else has tried Scorpion or Silverstring or B5E as a comparison. For the copoly, I am looking for a soft string that offers good spin and decent power not a crisp string like Silverstring.

Boricua
07-25-2011, 04:20 AM
Will using a thin copoly as cross be better? Lets say I use VS gut as main, will the 18 gauge be better than the 16 in the copoly cross?

Boricua
07-25-2011, 04:22 AM
Is the VS 15L much more durable than the 16 or 17 as a main string? How do they compare in feel as main strings?

parasailing
07-25-2011, 11:10 AM
Is the VS 15L much more durable than the 16 or 17 as a main string? How do they compare in feel as main strings?

Yes, using thicker gauge will last longer but you then sacrifice playability. VS 16 or 17 I can live with but 15L feels a tad stiffer to me and doesn't have the wonderful cupping effect.

As far as thinner cross, I am not sure about 18 gauge but I try to use 17 gauge poly mainly because to me it feels better than 16 gauge and is a tad bit softer as well.

My own concern with going 18 gauge is it might be too springy which given the VS mains are already powerful might not be a good combo.

But if anyone has tried PL2, SPPP, or VPro in 18 gauge, let us know what your thoughts are as these are the 3 strings I might be interested in testing out against WC line which I am quite impressed with.

parasailing
07-25-2011, 10:14 PM
I finally have about 5 hours with Black Magic in the cross and I have to say so far it's a nice setup. It is softer than Silverstring and is about equal to Scopion in that category.

Power I would rate somewhere between Scorpion and Silverstring. It doesn't has much power as say Scorpion but it has a good amount. Only thing I need to find out now is how well it plays in cooler temperature but given the price for a reel, this makes a good cross.

Does anybody know how PL 2 or SPPP plays compared to any of the strings I have tested so far? I think those are the other two strings I want to test out before I settle on a couple of different setups.

parasailing
07-30-2011, 12:07 AM
So I had a chance tonight to hit with VS mains and Black Magic crosses and Black Magic is also susceptible to colder temps like WC Scorpion. The string did not feel as lively nor offered as much spin as B5E.

I think B5E is the most consistent string so far I have tried regardless of temperature. It plays more even regardless of how cold or hot the weather is and this is definitely a good string to use a baseline to compare against others.

Mig1NC
08-04-2011, 05:08 PM
I love this thread. Lots of good feedback and base of experiances to draw on.

arche3
08-06-2011, 06:10 PM
been using VS 16 (black) main/ RPM 17 cross hybrid for the past 2 weeks. APDC strung at 56/53.

compared to my usual string these days. RPM 16 full bed at 55lbs.

spin: comparable to full bed of RPM 16, not much difference that I can tell.

power: slightly more powerful than full RPM 16. usable power in that it has a power level above and beyond a full rpm16 bed when you hit all out flat stroke. ball will go on blast mode. normal topspin and rally full strokes are heavy and consistent. No fear of flying long just like full RPM 16 for me.

Comfort: softer than full rpm 16 obviously. no vibration on my arm. very good.

touch: great feel.

volleys: a bit more zip on volleys.

serves. this is where I like the string job the best. I am able to serve harder and faster without the jarring on my arm and shoulder. Id say 5-10 mph more on a flat serve. action is the same as full bed rpm16. I am able to kick and slice the same.,
I do not know if I can serve faster due to the power level of the strings or I am just swinging harder because the string is so soft I am not worried about my TE.

durability: not very good. string snapped on my 1st racket at 12 hours. sawed through a main. I am playing on har tru so the wear is a bit more I think. 2nd racket has 6 hours on it and it still looks good without much fraying. the black color rubs off pretty fast though on the sweet spot.

tension maintenance: better than full poly. There was 2 drops in tension. after a 1 hour hit it dropped 2 pounds. after 4 hours dropped 2 more. it stayed there till strings broke on first racket. so 4 pounds of tension loss is not bad.

final thoughts: I will stick with this because I have no TE symptoms using this setup. I might string it higher to lower the power level but other than that it is a winning combo. and it comes in a hybrid string set from babolat.

I am tempted to try the Champions choice but I am not excited on trying another new string setup. But I might... I only tried a gut main hybrid due to all the hype. I am glad i did.

dozu
08-06-2011, 06:46 PM
12 hours on har tru is 'not very good' ??

arche3
08-06-2011, 07:31 PM
12 hours on har tru is 'not very good' ??

well I guess its decent but I still would think it can last longer. after 3 hours on the har tru the gut mains were all worn looking already with the black off. it needs a thicker coating or something.

it looks lame all worn out and it triggers my ocd... lol.

dozu
08-06-2011, 07:35 PM
har tru is prolly the most taxing on gut.... all that dust carried up by the ball... and usually the courts are so wet to keep the dust down

GlenK
08-07-2011, 05:08 AM
^^Agree, grit on gut is not good. Any time I play on har tru I'm extra careful to keep brushing off the strings. Specially cleaning them after I'm done playing.

ben123
08-07-2011, 05:25 AM
well I guess its decent but I still would think it can last longer. after 3 hours on the har tru the gut mains were all worn looking already with the black off. it needs a thicker coating or something.

it looks lame all worn out and it triggers my ocd... lol.

if u want more durability just go for a thicker gauge gut and change rpm to a round poly

Dags
08-07-2011, 06:20 AM
As far as thinner cross, I am not sure about 18 gauge but I try to use 17 gauge poly mainly because to me it feels better than 16 gauge and is a tad bit softer as well.
I'm actually starting to wonder whether a thicker cross would work better in this type of hybrid. I tried a load of polys with the poly in the main and a syn gut/multi cross, and arrived at one that was 1.20mm as I found it more playable than the 1.25. Having bought a reel of it, I then put gut in the mains and was hooked.

There are a couple of reasons I think the thicker poly may be better. Primarily, it's because thicker strings hold tension better. If you're a string breaker (which I'm not), then it would also last longer; the thinner gauge will cut through the gut quicker. The trade is in playability; but if you've got gut in the mains, that's surely going to be the overwhelming factor in the playability stakes. Once I've finished the reel (and there's a fair bit left, so don't hold your breath), I'll put this to the test.

Does anybody know how PL 2 or SPPP plays compared to any of the strings I have tested so far? I think those are the other two strings I want to test out before I settle on a couple of different setups.

PL2 is fairly similar to Silverstring. SPPP is much softer. I've made a couple of notes on them, along with the other strings I tried, in this thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=362403

parasailing
08-07-2011, 10:16 AM
Dags - I still prefer to use 17 gauge due to playability and also ease of stringing since I have my own stringing machine.

Would you rate SPPP or PL 2 higher than Silverstring? I probably going to have a couple of setups with VS in the mains and a copoly in the crosses and I find that Silverstring is a great overall string but when I need a little more power or maybe more spin or temperature issues with certain poly, I want to use that setup instead.

Right now, my favorite is WC Scorpion but when weather drops below into the 50s, the string is stiff but when the weather is warm, it plays great.

WC B5E has better consistency with good control and decent power.

Black Magic is somewhere in between B5E and Scorpion.

Dags
08-07-2011, 12:05 PM
My order of preference would probably be PL2, SS, SPPP. However, there are a couple of caveats. First, I haven't played with any of them for an extended period, just one or two string jobs whilst play testing. And second, I like stiff strings.

As you're looking for a softer string, I don't think PL2 fits the bill. SPPP might, so despite it being the one I rate third, it's the one I'd recommend you try.

Hopefully I'll pick up a set of B5E shortly. I did add a set to an order last week, but it was out of stock and I needed some other stuff for the weekend so I had to drop it. Maybe next time.

parasailing
08-10-2011, 12:09 AM
I just ordered SPPP and CoFocus and bought 2 more PSTGT from my good tennis buddy so now I will have 4 PSTGT to test the following string setup.

All will have VS mains strung at 56lbs and the cross will be at 50lbs. I should be able to post back later this weekend on how these two play compared to Black Magic and B5E.

Smasher08
08-10-2011, 12:28 AM
Nice. Looking forward to reading your reviews Parasailing.

RF_fan
08-10-2011, 12:43 PM
I'm interested to try VS 16 main/Pro Hurricane Tour 17 cross in BLX 90. I'm curious how PHT 17 would work with VS. I've never used either string. Does VS main move a lot? The only Hybrid setup I tried was Ultimate Duo with Alu Power in mains. How will this one compare? Or is there a better cross for VS? I was thinking to string @ 58/55. I don't hit with a lot of topspin and don't break strings.

JackB1
08-10-2011, 01:16 PM
I just ordered SPPP and CoFocus and bought 2 more PSTGT from my good tennis buddy so now I will have 4 PSTGT to test the following string setup.

All will have VS mains strung at 56lbs and the cross will be at 50lbs. I should be able to post back later this weekend on how these two play compared to Black Magic and B5E.

I really like B5E in the mains with a gut cross.

I also like BM as a cross with gut mains, in a lower powered racquet.

parasailing
08-10-2011, 10:06 PM
I'm interested to try VS 16 main/Pro Hurricane Tour 17 cross in BLX 90. I'm curious how PHT 17 would work with VS. I've never used either string. Does VS main move a lot? The only Hybrid setup I tried was Ultimate Duo with Alu Power in mains. How will this one compare? Or is there a better cross for VS? I was thinking to string @ 58/55. I don't hit with a lot of topspin and don't break strings.

Mains don't move, just the crosses. I tried PHT in the cross and was not impressed with it as a cross. Read the entire thread posting to give you an idea of what others think of the various crosses they have tried. I am still going through a few more strings to find that one that works for me.

VS at 58 is fine but I prefer the crosses a little lower at 50. Alu Power is an overrated string in my opinion.

Lsmkenpo
08-10-2011, 10:59 PM
IMO, poly crosses with gut mains is a waste unless you are a pro level player,no matter what poly you try in the cross it will go dead twice as fast as it normally would, 2 hours tops and the setup will than play no better than using full gut at high tension and worse than a Gut-multi or Gut-SG hybrid.

I tried the Vs-ALU hybrid a few times and every time I ended up regretting it.

It is 50+ dollars for 2 hours of quality play, beyond that there are so many other setups that play better it is simply a waste IMO.

2Hare
08-11-2011, 03:09 AM
IMO, poly crosses with gut mains is a waste unless you are a pro level player,no matter what poly you try in the cross it will go dead twice as fast as it normally would, 2 hours tops and the setup will than play no better than using full gut at high tension and worse than a Gut-multi or Gut-SG hybrid.

I tried the Vs-ALU hybrid a few times and every time I ended up regretting it.

It is 50+ dollars for 2 hours of quality play, beyond that there are so many other setups that play better it is simply a waste IMO.

have u tried lubricating the string? I found that the setup dies because the gut main no long slides after just a few short hours. Once you put in some lotion, it's dramatically better! just like new! It's really quite amazing and I would recommend everyone to try it out!

Smasher08
08-11-2011, 03:29 AM
have u tried lubricating the string? I found that the setup dies because the gut main no long slides after just a few short hours. Once you put in some lotion, it's dramatically better! just like new! It's really quite amazing and I would recommend everyone to try it out!

Interesting. What lotion do you use?

Have you thought of starting a thread about it?

(Btw, fwiw I've found the opposite with Co-Focus crosses: the setup gets spinnier and spinnier as it ages)

2Hare
08-11-2011, 04:23 AM
Interesting. What lotion do you use?

Have you thought of starting a thread about it?

(Btw, fwiw I've found the opposite with Co-Focus crosses: the setup gets spinnier and spinnier as it ages)

Just some body lotion I found at home that's not too greasy. I did start a thread a while ago asking ppl's opinions on different types of lubricants. There were apparently other threads on this before as well. I've tried baby oil, bike lube, finger ease, and body lotion. So far lotion and and finger ease works out the best. I don't think finger ease is completely non-toxic, so I would suggest just lotion. have fun =)

I haven't tried co-focus yet. But my experiences on quite a few other poly crosses beside Alu had not been good. Alu just has such a nice response and power to it that's unmatched by other polys I've tried. So i just stick with alu now

parasailing
08-11-2011, 10:44 AM
Just some body lotion I found at home that's not too greasy. I did start a thread a while ago asking ppl's opinions on different types of lubricants. There were apparently other threads on this before as well. I've tried baby oil, bike lube, finger ease, and body lotion. So far lotion and and finger ease works out the best. I don't think finger ease is completely non-toxic, so I would suggest just lotion. have fun =)

I haven't tried co-focus yet. But my experiences on quite a few other poly crosses beside Alu had not been good. Alu just has such a nice response and power to it that's unmatched by other polys I've tried. So i just stick with alu now

I find Silverstring slides pretty well as a cross and I think that is WC's answer to Alu Power. I didn't like Alu Power in the mains but never tried it as a cross. I found Silverstring was better at tension maintenance than Alu Power. Have you tried Silverstring and how would you compare to Alu Power?

JackB1
08-11-2011, 11:42 AM
Anyone try Black Venom as a cross with gut mains? I just put some in my racquet last night. The strings feel a little "plasticky" (like Black Code) and they are notching into the mains a lot.

parasailing
08-11-2011, 12:08 PM
Anyone try Black Venom as a cross with gut mains? I just put some in my racquet last night. The strings feel a little "plasticky" (like Black Code) and they are notching into the mains a lot.

I tried to B5E and notice that it notches the gut more and I have tried Black Venom which I know has a bit rougher texture and is not as smooth, it will definitely cut short the life of the natural gut mains.

On a side note, I see you are putting up 3 of your Organix 8 forsale, are you looking to get the Organix 8 315s instead?

2Hare
08-11-2011, 02:24 PM
I find Silverstring slides pretty well as a cross and I think that is WC's answer to Alu Power. I didn't like Alu Power in the mains but never tried it as a cross. I found Silverstring was better at tension maintenance than Alu Power. Have you tried Silverstring and how would you compare to Alu Power?

Well, I found silverstring to be much lower powered, which doesn't really work with 6.1 tour. I think string depends a lot on the racquet. If I have a higher powered, bigger head racquet like pure drive I may go with silver string. And as crosses, Alu power actually can last really long as crosses' tension is not as important as main.

RF_fan
08-14-2011, 01:17 AM
Mains don't move, just the crosses. I tried PHT in the cross and was not impressed with it as a cross. Read the entire thread posting to give you an idea of what others think of the various crosses they have tried. I am still going through a few more strings to find that one that works for me.

VS at 58 is fine but I prefer the crosses a little lower at 50. Alu Power is an overrated string in my opinion.

I was really looking forward to trying this setup, and I did request 58/55 thinking PHT's would lose some tension but when I picked it up tonight, they made a mistake - put PHT in main and VS in cross - the opposite of what I requested. Of course I got a refund for the strings and labor. Another thing is these strings feel a lot tighter than 58/55, probably 63-65 for PHT in mains. My question is would it make sense to restring only the main strings? I just feel bad wasting brand new VS. Somebody told me that replacing only the mains can crack the frame.

Keifers
08-14-2011, 02:12 AM
I was really looking forward to trying this setup, and I did request 58/55 thinking PHT's would lose some tension but when I picked it up tonight, they made a mistake - put PHT in main and VS in cross - the opposite of what I requested. Of course I got a refund for the strings and labor. Another thing is these strings feel a lot tighter than 58/55, probably 63-65 for PHT in mains. My question is would it make sense to restring only the main strings? I just feel bad wasting brand new VS. Somebody told me that replacing only the mains can crack the frame.
No, don't do it -- very bad idea.

The PHT mains will lose quite a bit of tension over the next day or so. See how it feels then.

Dags
08-14-2011, 04:44 AM
Somebody told me that replacing only the mains can crack the frame.

There's a reason for this. Racquets are designed to have the mains strung first, then the crosses. When you're stringing the mains, the tension is only pulling in one direction: it will result in making the head shorter and wider. Stringing machines compensate for this by adding support specifically to stop the head compressing in this direction. When you string the crosses those add tension in the other direction, thus balancing the stress on the frame and leaving you with a racquet that's the right shape.

If you were to cut out the mains and leave the crosses in place, the mounting system on the stringing machine won't support this: there's literally nothing that would stop the head from becoming longer and thinner. Cracking therefore becomes a real possibility.

JackB1
08-14-2011, 08:10 AM
I tried to B5E and notice that it notches the gut more and I have tried Black Venom which I know has a bit rougher texture and is not as smooth, it will definitely cut short the life of the natural gut mains.

On a side note, I see you are putting up 3 of your Organix 8 forsale, are you looking to get the Organix 8 315s instead?

I will be trying the 315 out for sure

arche3
08-14-2011, 07:56 PM
I just strung up my rackets with VS black 16 mains/ RPM 16 crosses. I am trying to tame the power of the VS gut without stringing too high so I moved to a thicker cross. strung at 59/56. will see how that works. (I found VS black 16/RPM 17 at 57/55 was too powerful for me)


i am addicted to the plush feel so want to make it work with the gut mains.

tes
08-17-2011, 03:57 AM
I have aHead Youtek speed elite I want to try VS mains Silverstring 17g crosses. The raquet is 16x19 65 flex rating, 100 inches. I have added 11 grams of lead. I most recently have been playing with Mosquito bite 18 mains head ppsg 18 crosses at 53/56 strung on a lockout.

What tension would you recommend for the VS/SS combo in this racquet.

I was thinking 59/54. Too high?

Thanks for your input

Smasher08
08-17-2011, 05:09 AM
I have aHead Youtek speed elite I want to try VS mains Silverstring 17g crosses. The raquet is 16x19 65 flex rating, 100 inches. I have added 11 grams of lead. I most recently have been playing with Mosquito bite 18 mains head ppsg 18 crosses at 53/56 strung on a lockout.

What tension would you recommend for the VS/SS combo in this racquet.

I was thinking 59/54. Too high?

Thanks for your input

Yep, probably too high. The whole point of gut mains and poly crosses is to get power, comfort and lots of spin -- and at that tension you're at risk of locking your stringbed and preventing your mains from sliding and snapping back in place, thereby choking off the spin.

Try Federer-like tensions for best results (ie high 40s - low 50s, with your crosses 2-5 lbs lower). It'll also improve the longevity.

ben123
08-17-2011, 06:36 AM
Yep, probably too high. The whole point of gut mains and poly crosses is to get power, comfort and lots of spin -- and at that tension you're at risk of locking your stringbed and preventing your mains from sliding and snapping back in place, thereby choking off the spin.

Try Federer-like tensions for best results (ie high 40s - low 50s, with your crosses 2-5 lbs lower). It'll also improve the longevity.

please tell that djokovic who strings in the 60 with vs team mains and alu crosses

tes
08-17-2011, 06:53 AM
please tell that djokovic who strings in the 60 with vs team mains and alu crosses


Based on the average of the two responses I am leaning to 57/52 but am certainly willing to listen to more advice.

Smasher08
08-17-2011, 07:28 AM
please tell that djokovic who strings in the 60 with vs team mains and alu crosses

News to me: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=360726

But if anyone here swings as hard or as fast as Djoker, by all means do your own thing.

ben123
08-17-2011, 07:36 AM
News to me: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=360726

But if anyone here swings as hard or as fast as Djoker, by all means do your own thing.

no its smth like 61mains and 59 crosses for djoker

just string your gut how u like it. thats pretty much all..

and btw you compare djoker to us in a bad way but 1 post above you said look at federer lol

Smasher08
08-17-2011, 08:10 AM
no its smth like 61mains and 59 crosses for djoker

just string your gut how u like it. thats pretty much all..

and btw you compare djoker to us in a bad way but 1 post above you said look at federer lol

Lol no, if you read carefully, I'm comparing regular rec and club players to a guy who's lost 1x in the world's top tournaments since November. Fed strings at a tension that will benefit even us mortals. And apparently Djoker almost does too at 56.

But since you clearly think you're an authority on Djoker's tension and clearly suggest that 56 is wrong, let's see your source(s).

Cards on the table, bend123. ;)

ben123
08-17-2011, 10:27 AM
Lol no, if you read carefully, I'm comparing regular rec and club players to a guy who's lost 1x in the world's top tournaments since November. Fed strings at a tension that will benefit even us mortals. And apparently Djoker almost does too at 56.

But since you clearly think you're an authority on Djoker's tension and clearly suggest that 56 is wrong, let's see your source(s).

Cards on the table, bend123. ;)


just because you read here that lower tension are better doesnt mean its good for everyone...

and stop saying djoker strings 56 thats just wrong:roll: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=380351&highlight=djokovic
60,5 mains 58,5 crosses or 27,5/26,5kg ...
there on his racquet is a sign with 27,5/26,5 thats his tension

feds tension wont benefit most of you sigh fed has a 90 sq racquet with perfect technique. if you hit flat its not good by any means .. fed has very much spin and a 90 sq to control the low tensions. you mortals dont have this


to sum this up: the tension you should use is the one in which you feel comfortable and nothing else

parasailing
08-17-2011, 10:44 AM
Based on the average of the two responses I am leaning to 57/52 but am certainly willing to listen to more advice.

This depends on which VS string you are talking about, non BT7 or BT7 technology. I string my non VS at 57lbs and 52lbs for Silverstring but for BT7 VS, I string it at 56lbs and 50lbs. BT7 seems to give a slightly stiffer stringbed and given SS is a crisp string, I had to lower it a bit.

tes
08-17-2011, 11:15 AM
This depends on which VS string you are talking about, non BT7 or BT7 technology. I string my non VS at 57lbs and 52lbs for Silverstring but for BT7 VS, I string it at 56lbs and 50lbs. BT7 seems to give a slightly stiffer stringbed and given SS is a crisp string, I had to lower it a bit.

It's the non-BT7 string. But wouldn't string pattern, head size be more of a factor? What are you using?

Smasher08
08-17-2011, 11:41 AM
Tes: For a better perspective I suggest you take a read through the threads and posts on this topic by myself, TimothyO, and PV Audio. We've at least done actual playtests and know from firsthand experience what we're talking about. Believe me, the ball is definitely *not* going to fly off your racket (unless of course you have a superfast swing, a continental grip, and a perfectly flat swingpath).

As for our troll....

just because you read here that lower tension are better doesnt mean its good for everyone...

Of course bend123, you're clearly such an authority, we all should just take your unsubstantiated word as fact :roll: We're all fortunate you grace us with your sublime presence :roll: How dare any pleb deign to ask you to back up your contention? :roll:

fed has very much spin and a 90 sq to control the low tensions. you mortals dont have this

Uh-huh, and did your sublime genius ever pause to consider the fact that at least part of the reason Fed gets so much spin is because of how much more spin gut imparts at lower tensions?

No, it clearly did not. :roll:

Oh, and it's interesting to note that the pic you provided was from Novak's "bad" old days ... and that he ultimately chose to break the racket.

On the grass this past Wimbledon it seems he strung at 27 (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=389215), aka 59 lbs. On grass.

Of course, I'm sure you're one of those enlightened souls who string poly in the high 60s "because it feels comfortable and nothing else".

Yawn.

ben123
08-17-2011, 11:51 AM
As for our troll....



Of course bend123, you're clearly such an authority, we all should just take your unsubstantiated word as fact :roll: We're all fortunate you grace us with your sublime presence :roll: How dare any pleb deign to ask you to back up your contention? :roll:



Uh-huh, and did your sublime genius ever pause to consider the fact that at least part of the reason Fed gets so much spin is because of how much more spin gut imparts at lower tensions?

No, it clearly did not. :roll:

Oh, and it's interesting to note that the pic you provided was from Novak's "bad" old days ... and that he ultimately chose to break the racket.

On the grass this past Wimbledon it seems he strung at 27 (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=389215), aka 59 lbs. On grass.

Of course, I'm sure you're one of those enlightened souls who string poly in the high 60s "because it feels comfortable and nothing else".

Yawn.

how old are you? 15?

i never said anything else than string at the tension on what you feel comfortable with. you were the guy saying use this and that tension not me...
first you said he strings at 56 and now you say at 59? are you angry? just btw 27kg = 59,5 lbs

and yes you get more spin in lower tension. but as i said fed hits the ball really fast, if you dont have this technique you can string at 20 lbs and you will still not get spin on the ball

stop crying ok..

Smasher08
08-17-2011, 12:05 PM
how old are you? 15?

i never said anything else than string at the tension on what you feel comfortable with. you were the guy saying use this and that tension not me...
first you said he strings at 56 and now you say at 59? are you angry? just btw 27kg = 59,5 lbs

and yes you get more spin in lower tension. but as i said fed hits the ball really fast, if you dont have this technique you can string at 20 lbs and you will still not get spin on the ball

stop crying ok..

Yep, just what I'd expect to hear from a troll.

Whatever, thanks for stopping by. I sure hope the world keeps on recognising your stupendous talents. :roll:

parasailing
08-17-2011, 12:32 PM
It's the non-BT7 string. But wouldn't string pattern, head size be more of a factor? What are you using?

It would also play a part as well. I use a PSTGT which is 16x20 and if you go with a 18x20 string pattern, I would suggest lowering it a bit more given the denser string pattern.

arche3
08-17-2011, 04:03 PM
I like my APDC at 60/57 with VS black 16/ RPM 16 much better than VS black 16/ RPM 17 at 56/53. the higher tension works better for me with the same amount of spin. just less powerful. win win for me. same soft feel.

The Big Kahuna
08-18-2011, 06:41 PM
The natural gut crossed with a poly is the best setup in MO. In addition the best and highest rated string combo at TW is a natural gut/poly combo. I switched to Klip legend for the price and it works great for me. Comes out to 12.50 and half set for the gut. I string the gut at my normal tension and then go down 5 lbs for the poly.

I am with you on this one. KLIP Legend is the best performance to cost ratio in the natural gut market. Combine it with a Poly with no texture (so as not to fray the gut so quickly) that also has a high performance to cost ratio (usually $8. for a full set), and you end up with a full Hybrid set of gut/poly for about $16.50! That is HALF the cheapest pre-packaged gut/poly set.

My picks for the non-textured poly crosses based on performance ratings and cost would be:

1) Signum Pro Poly Plasma ($9 set)
2) MSV Co-Focus ($8. set)
3) Kirshbaum Pro Line II black (special promo offer right now at $8. set!)

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Kirschbaum_Pro_Line_II_17_Black_String_4-Pack/descpageAC-KPL2BK17PR.html

The Kirshbaum Pro Line II is great string at this price - about half of what they usually charge!

Anyone playing with the KLIP Legend gut and poly hybrid set-up now? What do you like for the poly crosses?

The Big Kahuna
08-18-2011, 06:48 PM
BTW For those of you fighting over set-ups and tensions of the pros, you can find a lot of FACTS on the subject on-line at:

http://www.colinthestringer.com/pros-strings/

According to the site, here are some interesting tensions and set-ups of the pros:

Latest Update: Wimbledon/Montreal Masters- August 2011

Novak Djokovic Head YouTek IG Speed Pro 1820
Head Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 55/52lbs

Roger Federer Wilson Six.One Tour BLX
Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/44lbs

Rafael Nadal Babolat AeroPro Drive GT
Babolat RPM Blast 55lbs

Andy Roddick Babolat Pure Drive Roddick
Babolat Pro Hurricane Tour/Babolat VS Team 73/61lbs

Bob Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 56/52lbs

Mike Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 54/51lbs

ben123
08-19-2011, 08:36 AM
BTW For those of you fighting over set-ups and tensions of the pros, you can find a lot of FACTS on the subject on-line at:

http://www.colinthestringer.com/pros-strings/

According to the site, here are some interesting tensions and set-ups of the pros:

Latest Update: Wimbledon/Montreal Masters- August 2011

Novak Djokovic Head YouTek IG Speed Pro 1820
Head Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 55/52lbs

Roger Federer Wilson Six.One Tour BLX
Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/44lbs

Rafael Nadal Babolat AeroPro Drive GT
Babolat RPM Blast 55lbs

Andy Roddick Babolat Pure Drive Roddick
Babolat Pro Hurricane Tour/Babolat VS Team 73/61lbs

Bob Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 56/52lbs

Mike Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 54/51lbs

omg i showed you 2 threads of djokovic real racquet and you still believe collin the stringer?

collinthestringer.com has MANY mistakes on pros strings. guess why he has so many oldschool pros on his website who are not even playing anymore..

parasailing
08-20-2011, 02:29 PM
I strung up VS Team at 57lbs and WC Mosquito Bite at 52lbs last night and hit with it for about an hour today.

Initial thoughts are that it is soft and powerful. I think its too powerful as balls would sail out quite a few times. After an hour or so, I decided to swtich back to a more control racquet.

My advice if you go with this string is to up the tension to at least 55lbs to tame so of that power it offers. This is my third 18 guage string I used and based on experience, I now know to string it with higher tension than a 17gauge one.

tes
08-21-2011, 07:46 AM
Avert your eyes..I am going to use a dirty word in this thread....Global
I strung up my my Head Youtek speed elite with Global 57 in mains Kirchbaum Pro II in crosses at 52. Played great in all respects for 2 sets before the mains sawed through in the sweet spot.

parasailing
08-21-2011, 03:05 PM
[QUOTE=tes;5920893]Avert your eyes..I am going to use a dirty word in this thread....Global
I strung up my my Head Youtek speed elite with Global 57 in mains Kirchbaum Pro II in crosses at 52. Played great in all respects for 2 sets before the mains sawed through in the sweet spot.[/QUOTE

I tried global and its not as soft as vs and on occassion would snap in the bag without any warning so it is a waste of time and a roll of the dice. If it works for you great but is pl2 textured or smooth?

tes
08-21-2011, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE=tes;5920893]Avert your eyes..I am going to use a dirty word in this thread....Global
I strung up my my Head Youtek speed elite with Global 57 in mains Kirchbaum Pro II in crosses at 52. Played great in all respects for 2 sets before the mains sawed through in the sweet spot.[/QUOTE

I tried global and its not as soft as vs and on occassion would snap in the bag without any warning so it is a waste of time and a roll of the dice. If it works for you great but is pl2 textured or smooth?

It's smooth as a baby's bottom. It's interesting that you you say it is not soft.
I would say the stuff I have is just the opposite. The poly cut through it like a hot knife through butter.

parasailing
08-21-2011, 09:35 PM
[quote=parasailing;5922205]

It's smooth as a baby's bottom. It's interesting that you you say it is not soft.
I would say the stuff I have is just the opposite. The poly cut through it like a hot knife through butter.

So is PL2 a smooth poly? The global is a soft string compared to all others but not as soft as VS. I used to use VS full setup and that only last me about 8 to 10 hours. After switching to VS mains and a smooth poly, it lasted me twice as long.

phnx90
08-22-2011, 04:53 AM
I really want to try the VS Gut mains + ALU Rough (or even RPM) crosses combo, but it's expensive to get a racquet strung where I live (Hong Kong), and it's probably too humid here for natural gut anyway.

Sigh.

JT_2eighty
08-22-2011, 10:01 AM
I strung up VS Team at 57lbs and WC Mosquito Bite at 52lbs last night and hit with it for about an hour today.

Initial thoughts are that it is soft and powerful. I think its too powerful as balls would sail out quite a few times. After an hour or so, I decided to swtich back to a more control racquet.


Of all the soft, powerful polys I've used, WC MB is right behind PS Energy in terms of power. The difference for me is that MB holds tension way better, so you can string it higher and it shouldn't turn into quite the launcher that Energy does.

If you can dial in the right tension, Gut/MB is an amazing feeling setup, with power, touch, spin and comfort. 62/59 or something around there is truly sublime. I used it with Pacific Tough, a stiffer gut that helps aid control, as VS will also add to the power a lot.

parasailing
08-22-2011, 11:55 AM
Of all the soft, powerful polys I've used, WC MB is right behind PS Energy in terms of power. The difference for me is that MB holds tension way better, so you can string it higher and it shouldn't turn into quite the launcher that Energy does.

If you can dial in the right tension, Gut/MB is an amazing feeling setup, with power, touch, spin and comfort. 62/59 or something around there is truly sublime. I used it with Pacific Tough, a stiffer gut that helps aid control, as VS will also add to the power a lot.

I agree that VS is way more powerful than Pacific Tough but I don't like the stiffer feel of the Pacific. So far with the setups I have tried, I prefer 57lbs on VS mains and use the copoly cross to rein in the power. This is the third time I have tried a 18 gauge string and it confirms that 18 gauge quite powerful and needs to be strung at a higher tension.

TennisCJC
08-23-2011, 07:59 AM
Avert your eyes..I am going to use a dirty word in this thread....Global
I strung up my my Head Youtek speed elite with Global 57 in mains Kirchbaum Pro II in crosses at 52. Played great in all respects for 2 sets before the mains sawed through in the sweet spot.

If you only got 2 sets, it is too expensive for me. I normally breaks nylon/multis in about 3-4 weeks of play and the last week they are pretty worn. I have used Bab Tonic+ BallFeel 16G in mains with several smooth and textured poly crosses and actually get about the same play - around 3-4 weeks playing 4-5 times per weeks at 2 hours per session. The gut actually plays better to the end. Bab Tonic+ BallFeel is a better bargain and it plays great. I will try Pac Classic Gut 16G for the fall season as it is less expensive than Tonic+ - $27 vs $33. I have used Pac Classic Gut as crosses and it plays nice and seem to have almost the same durability as Bab Tonic+, but yet to try it as a main. We'll see - TBD.

Smasher08
08-23-2011, 08:22 AM
Having tried Pac Classic 16 and now 17 crossed with MSV Co-Focus, I found that the 16 took about 20 hours to get as spinny as I wanted it, and the 17 was just about there from the get-go.

Depending on your preferences, you might want to try starting with the 16L instead.

Avadia
08-23-2011, 09:20 AM
Having tried Pac Classic 16 and now 17 crossed with MSV Co-Focus, I found that the 16 took about 20 hours to get as spinny as I wanted it, and the 17 was just about there from the get-go.

Depending on your preferences, you might want to try starting with the 16L instead.

I just strung up my AG4D 200 Tour with Pac Classic 17 and MSV Co-Focus 1.23. Can't wait to hit with it!

Smasher08
08-23-2011, 01:18 PM
I just strung up my AG4D 200 Tour with Pac Classic 17 and MSV Co-Focus 1.23. Can't wait to hit with it!

Nice! I'm about to start a new thread for my setup, feel free to contribute your reviews too.

The Big Kahuna
08-25-2011, 04:58 PM
No problems with CoFocus on the durability front. If anything it seems to be "aging" nicely with the VS Team. The PSLGT is producing more spin and better playability the longer the strings have been in.

Hey SMASHER and TIMOTHYO, I know that you both are fans of MSV Co-Focus as a cross string with gut. I am in the midst of my own playtest using the new KLIP Legend TOUR 17 (which is double-coated and seems to play very nicely). I think I have the cross narrowed to one of three polys - all of which you seem to regard well (and are smooth and slippery). They are:

Weiss Silverstring 17
MSV Co-Focus 18
Kirshbaum Pro Line II 17

Could you weigh in on this? Am I missing a poly here that will offer good comfort and feel and still give me good tension retention and compliment the KLIP Gut?

I am switching over from Poly in the mains and a multi in the crosses and I am loving what the Gut/Poly Hybrid is doing for me, so far. I just can't afford to cut out too many sets of gut to find the right set-up and would really appreciate anyone's thoughts here on the best poly cross for my set-up.

JT_2eighty
08-25-2011, 08:35 PM
^^^ I'd say the best bet is the WC poly, they are top-notch when it comes to tension retention, and compliment gut very nicely. Although, as an avid Tornado user, have you thought of trying Hyperion as a cross? Isn't it a smooth version of tornado?

Speaking of which, Tornado in the YTPP is absolutely deadly! I've been using it lately, comparing to my go-to Turbo, and it is almost as comfy with exceptional control, touch and spin. The tension retention on Signum is nothing short of mind-boggling.

Avadia
08-25-2011, 08:49 PM
I just strung up my AG4D 200 Tour with Pac Classic 17 and MSV Co-Focus 1.23. Can't wait to hit with it!

Got a chance to hit with this setup last night and really enjoyed it. I was most amazed by the power I got off the stringbed. I strung it at 59/56, and thought that might be a little tight. But I got tons of power from it and it actually took a little while to get used to the power and get it under control. But once I did, I played really well with it.

I was serving bombs and had a fair number of aces and lots of unreturnables. Got a very high percentage of first serves in with pace and placement and had an easy time hitting powerful topspin and kick second serves consistently. I think I double faulted only once.

Groundstrokes were powerful and deep with lots of topspin. Slices were accurate with good bite on the ball. I hit a few nice short angle winners as well. And I was absolutely putting overheads and volleys away with the power. Touch and feel was also good, and I hit several deft dropshots for winners. Can't wait to play with this setup a little more now that it has settled in, but I can highly recommend it already.

The Big Kahuna
08-26-2011, 12:40 PM
^^^ Although, as an avid Tornado user, have you thought of trying Hyperion as a cross? Isn't it a smooth version of tornado?

Speaking of which, Tornado in the YTPP is absolutely deadly! I've been using it lately, comparing to my go-to Turbo, and it is almost as comfy with exceptional control, touch and spin. The tension retention on Signum is nothing short of mind-boggling.

I did think of Hyperion, however, it is 20-50% more money than the other three right now and this is for cross string (not the mains) so it is hard to rationalize the additional cost for poly crosses with gut in the mains.

I agree with you about the Tornado in the YPP as a main string. It's amazing! Love it with my Mantis Comfort crosses. For the money, you cannot beat this set-up. That said, in play testing the gut mains and poly crosses, there is a notable increase in comfort and feel and POWER at the same time. It is also more than twice the price.

I wanted to find the best Poly at or under $10. a set for the crosses to keep the full set-up price down given in the increase in costs for the mains - thereby eliminating SP Hyperion and SPPP (even though they are both very well-reviewed and highly regarded).

The Big Kahuna
08-26-2011, 12:46 PM
You might all find this interesting, as well. From an article by Joshua Speckman in Tennis Player Magazine this month:

"Federer is one of the few pros today that played with full natural gut for a significant part of his career. He was pretty good with it too, beating Sampras at Wimbledon in 2001 with a full bed of gut. So why did he add copoly strings to the mix?"

"Spin control," answers Ferguson. "Spin is part of control, and he gains both. Definitely more spin, and with that comes control. And with that control he can string way down low. He strings at 21.5 or 22 kilos (47 or 48.5 pounds)," he adds."


"Federer's setup actually bears some resemblance to spaghetti strings, as that invention also used natural gut in the mains and a synthetic in the crosses. Many players find the combination of extremely elastic gut mains with stiff, hard and slick copoly crosses to be as, or more, spin-friendly than a full bed of copoly, while also being more comfortable, powerful and giving better feel for the ball."

"In string-on-string friction tests, tennis equipment researcher Crawford Lindsey found that gut mains slide with less friction along copoly crosses than any other string or string combination. And he found that - unlike other strings, where notching ramps up friction and disables the snapback mechanism – inter-string friction actually gets lower as the notches get deeper."

"Why? Natural oils seep out of the gut at the notches and lubricate the string intersections. This suggests that a gut/poly hybrid might retain its spin-generating potential for longer than any other string or combination. Well, at least until the gut breaks."

"Surprisingly, the opposite configuration – poly mains/gut crosses – slides much less easily. Lindsey says the two materials are sticky in reverse perhaps because the surface of the gut crosses quickly abrades, pulling up microscopic fibers that get hung up on the copoly mains as they try to slide."

parasailing
08-26-2011, 02:51 PM
I did think of Hyperion, however, it is 20-50% more money than the other three right now and this is for cross string (not the mains) so it is hard to rationalize the additional cost for poly crosses with gut in the mains.

I agree with you about the Tornado in the YPP as a main string. It's amazing! Love it with my Mantis Comfort crosses. For the money, you cannot beat this set-up. That said, in play testing the gut mains and poly crosses, there is a notable increase in comfort and feel and POWER at the same time. It is also more than twice the price.

I wanted to find the best Poly at or under $10. a set for the crosses to keep the full set-up price down given in the increase in costs for the mains - thereby eliminating SP Hyperion and SPPP (even though they are both very well-reviewed and highly regarded).

If you go with a reel of SPPP, it ends up being less than $7 per set similar to what WC Scorpion is priced at per reel. When I get a chance, I will string up both SPPP and Cofocus to see which one plays better.

The Big Kahuna
08-26-2011, 04:33 PM
If you go with a reel of SPPP, it ends up being less than $7 per set similar to what WC Scorpion is priced at per reel. When I get a chance, I will string up both SPPP and Cofocus to see which one plays better.

I am in the process of stringing up the WC Silverstring 17 and the MSV Co-Focus 18 crosses right now with my KLIP Legend Tour 17 mains. I will let you know how they compare.

The Kirschbaum Pro Line II was nice. Very comfortable and powerful compared to the SP Tornado I used as crosses in my last comparison playtest for a reference set in initial comparison (as I was using this as my Mains for the last year after testing nearly everything and loving the SP Tornado best). Good spin and very good touch and feel. Large sweet spot and better pocketing compared to Tornado (which is textured and offers most friction to the gut).

Smasher08
08-27-2011, 07:51 AM
Got a chance to hit with this setup last night and really enjoyed it. I was most amazed by the power I got off the stringbed. I strung it at 59/56, and thought that might be a little tight. But I got tons of power from it and it actually took a little while to get used to the power and get it under control. But once I did, I played really well with it.

I was serving bombs and had a fair number of aces and lots of unreturnables. Got a very high percentage of first serves in with pace and placement and had an easy time hitting powerful topspin and kick second serves consistently. I think I double faulted only once.

Groundstrokes were powerful and deep with lots of topspin. Slices were accurate with good bite on the ball. I hit a few nice short angle winners as well. And I was absolutely putting overheads and volleys away with the power. Touch and feel was also good, and I hit several deft dropshots for winners. Can't wait to play with this setup a little more now that it has settled in, but I can highly recommend it already.

Nice. But this thread just wouldn't be right without a gratuitous photo of your stringbed!!

The Big Kahuna
08-27-2011, 03:37 PM
Two hours of play. Initial impressions:

Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains / MSV Co.-Focus 17L (1.18) crosses 48/52 - Great ball pocketing and lively response. Very "Liquid" or "Airy" sensation when hitting ("Spaghetti Strings"?). Great bite on the ball - terrific spin potential. Slightly muted power (balls stayed in play). Larger sweet spot. Tons of dwell time.

Power: A-
Control: (+ ranked) A-
Feel: A
Comfort: (+ ranked) A
Spin: A+


•Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains / Weiss CANNON Silverstring 17 (1.20) crosses 48/52 - Comments: Crisp, yet still very comfortable. Solid, with decent power, yet with good control.


Power: A-
Control: (+ ranked) A
Feel: A-
Comfort: (+ ranked) A-
Spin: B

More to come.

TonyB
08-27-2011, 07:13 PM
"In string-on-string friction tests, tennis equipment researcher Crawford Lindsey found that gut mains slide with less friction along copoly crosses than any other string or string combination. And he found that - unlike other strings, where notching ramps up friction and disables the snapback mechanism inter-string friction actually gets lower as the notches get deeper."

"Surprisingly, the opposite configuration poly mains/gut crosses slides much less easily. Lindsey says the two materials are sticky in reverse perhaps because the surface of the gut crosses quickly abrades, pulling up microscopic fibers that get hung up on the copoly mains as they try to slide."


Funny thing is that I always used to use poly mains and gut crosses and yes, they definitely locked into place with high friction. I just strung up the same frame with gut mains and poly crosses for the first time today and the gut mains definitely snap back into place quickly with very low friction.

So, I would have to agree with the quotes above.

parasailing
08-27-2011, 10:09 PM
I have the VS Team and Black Magic crosses setup for about 15 hours now. For me, Black Magic will not be the string I will go with it. Initially, it plays really nice and I thought it would be a good value but now the strings feel dead. It has lost the pop and power so I will be moving on.

This string just doesn't last as long as WC Scorpion or Silverstring so I will not be buying a reel of this. It just feels like the power has left the string and now has become more of a control string like WC B5E which I would put about the same as Black Magic but with better spin production.

My other VS setup with WC Mosquito bite is about 4 hours into and I am still trying to figure out if I just don't have the right tension on this string. I know people have mention great power and such but I am not feeling it compared to Scorpion. It might be the fact that it's the only 18 gauge string I have tried in a cross but so far, it feels average to me. Perhaps more time with this setup will provide me with more feedback.

Now it's time to string up VS Team with SPPP to see if that will the real deal.

The Big Kahuna
08-28-2011, 03:27 PM
Just to be clear, my test was based on the but mains at 52 lbs and the poly crosses at 48 lbs.

The Big Kahuna
08-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Funny thing is that I always used to use poly mains and gut crosses and yes, they definitely locked into place with high friction. I just strung up the same frame with gut mains and poly crosses for the first time today and the gut mains definitely snap back into place quickly with very low friction.

So, I would have to agree with the quotes above.

Most pros are using the poly as the crosses for this reason - and at fairly low tensions.

Novak Djokovic Head YouTek IG Speed Pro 1820
Head Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 55/52lbs (racquet 52-62lbs range)

Roger Federer Wilson Six.One Tour BLX
Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/44lbs (racquet 50-60lbs range)

Bob Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 56/52lbs (racquet 50-60lbs range)

Mike Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 54/51lbs (racquet 50-60lbs range)

Lleyton Hewitt Yonex RDiS 100
Babolat VS Team/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 56lbs

Only Andy Roddick - that I can find - has it the other way around (and much higher tension):

Andy Roddick Babolat Pure Drive Roddick
Babolat Pro Hurricane Tour/Babolat VS Team 73/61lbs

2Hare
08-28-2011, 04:24 PM
I think it's important to keep in mind that the pros strung the racket so low because they actually use the racket less than a day, usually just a few hours, after the rackets are strung. even just after a day or less of sitting there without being hit, the strings tension usually dropped so low that they have to be restrung for the pros. So unless you are restringing your racket everyday, you should at least string them 3-5 pounds higher than what they are stringing at.

Smasher08
08-28-2011, 05:10 PM
I think it's important to keep in mind that the pros strung the racket so low because they actually use the racket less than a day, usually just a few hours, after the rackets are strung. even just after a day or less of sitting there without being hit, the strings tension usually dropped so low that they have to be restrung for the pros. So unless you are restringing your racket everyday, you should at least string them 3-5 pounds higher than what they are stringing at.

Um, probably not. You're forgetting that the pros also swing much faster than the average TT poster. If anything, slightly lower tensions (than everyone but Federer) will suffice for all but the most demanding satellite tour calibre folks.

2Hare
08-28-2011, 07:46 PM
Um, probably not. You're forgetting that the pros also swing much faster than the average TT poster. If anything, slightly lower tensions (than everyone but Federer) will suffice for all but the most demanding satellite tour calibre folks.

yea but they also hit with more spin and brushing motion. which means at the same tension as them, your balls r gonna fly while theirs will stay in. that extra swing speed goes mostly into spin than power.

parasailing
08-29-2011, 12:50 AM
Finally had a chance to hit for about 2 hours with VS Team and SPPP cross. The string offered good power and decent spin production. I also loved the orange string color.

I tried the VS Team with WC MB cross again and was hoping for better success. Unfortunately, it was a disappointment. It didn't have as much control as the SPPP and I didn't feel the power some have mentioned. I cut out the crosses and will be stringing it up with Co focus to see how that goes.

I still need to try PL2 to finish my testing until newer ones come around the corner:).

Smasher08
08-29-2011, 07:44 AM
yea but they also hit with more spin and brushing motion. which means at the same tension as them, your balls r gonna fly while theirs will stay in. that extra swing speed goes mostly into spin than power.

Um, no. Your assumption here is that the extra swing speed of the pros translates exclusively into spin production. That's virtually certain to be wrong.

I also think you're assuming that people on this board sport 110"+ head heavy frames weighing sub 10 ounces, and use very fast, completely flat swings.

Maybe you do, but good luck with that assumption.

ben123
08-29-2011, 11:14 AM
Most pros are using the poly as the crosses for this reason - and at fairly low tensions.

Novak Djokovic Head YouTek IG Speed Pro 1820
Head Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 55/52lbs (racquet 52-62lbs range)

Roger Federer Wilson Six.One Tour BLX
Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/44lbs (racquet 50-60lbs range)

Bob Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 56/52lbs (racquet 50-60lbs range)

Mike Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 54/51lbs (racquet 50-60lbs range)

Lleyton Hewitt Yonex RDiS 100
Babolat VS Team/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 56lbs

Only Andy Roddick - that I can find - has it the other way around (and much higher tension):

Andy Roddick Babolat Pure Drive Roddick
Babolat Pro Hurricane Tour/Babolat VS Team 73/61lbs

my post got deleted so here again:

these specs are wrong.

2Hare
08-29-2011, 11:48 AM
Um, no. Your assumption here is that the extra swing speed of the pros translates exclusively into spin production. That's virtually certain to be wrong.

I also think you're assuming that people on this board sport 110"+ head heavy frames weighing sub 10 ounces, and use very fast, completely flat swings.

Maybe you do, but good luck with that assumption.

First of all, I said "mostly" into spin. And let's say someone saw federer string his racket at 48 pounds. Are you seriously suggesting that he should string a few pounds lower than 48? Go to any of your friend and tell them since federer string at 48 so they should string lower and see how they react!

Second, most people restring their racket weeks or months in between. The strings tension after a few days of sitting there and hours of hitting are gonna be at least 10 pounds lower than than the freshly strung racket. which means balls are definitely gonna fly on them.

People who read this board are tennis nerds, so why would I expect them to sport 110" racket? They are either Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic fan with Federer and Nadal stringing at a very low tension.

Smasher08
08-29-2011, 04:46 PM
Awww, 2Hare is attempting a smackdown.

Let's see what was said:

If anything, slightly lower tensions (than everyone but Federer) will suffice for all but the most demanding satellite tour calibre folks.

And let's say someone saw federer string his racket at 48 pounds. Are you seriously suggesting that he should string a few pounds lower than 48?

Oh dear, epic fail. Attention to detail really isn't your thing, huh?

Second, most people restring their racket weeks or months in between. The strings tension after a few days of sitting there and hours of hitting are gonna be at least 10 pounds lower than than the freshly strung racket. which means balls are definitely gonna fly on them.

Um, no. Allow me to refer you to this thread's title: tension maintenance is not a major issue for natural gut strings.

Since you're suggesting that an approximately 20% tension loss occurs merely "after a few days of sitting there", perhaps you ought to read up on gut's qualities a little:

Natural gut is also better than synthetic strings at holding tension. Do you like that fresh strung feeling? You'll get to enjoy it longer with natural gut in your racquet. Here the appeal to professional players becomes more obvious. When professional players break a gut string they can reach for a new racquet and be confident that it will play and feel similar to the one they were just using.

Because it maintains tension so well, natural gut will continue to offer its superior playability characteristics for the duration of its life. Players who do not frequently break strings may find natural gut to be a better value than synthetic strings. Rather than having to cut out and replace 'bagged-out' synthetic strings, a player using natural gut can continue to benefit from the playability of the string until it breaks. (http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/Naturalgut.html)

Or this from a TW competitor's website:

When your strings stretch time and time again the recovery rate, better known as the elastic quality of the string, is crucial. With natural gut the recovery rate is second to none for a very special reason. Natural gut is a product of nature and by nature's design, they perform consistently just as they did when in use by the cow. As the cow ate its food the intestine expanded to accommodate the meal. As the meal was digested the intestine contracted, returning to its original state. This particular quality of natural gut string might well be referred to as the Holy Grail of string; its ability for tension maintenance.

So not quite, 2Hare. But thanks for trying anyway.

2Hare
08-29-2011, 05:36 PM
Awww, 2Hare is attempting a smackdown.

Let's see what was said:





Oh dear, epic fail. Attention to detail really isn't your thing, huh?



Um, no. Allow me to refer you to this thread's title: tension maintenance is not a major issue for natural gut strings.

Since you're suggesting that an approximately 20% tension loss occurs merely "after a few days of sitting there", perhaps you ought to read up on gut's qualities a little:



Or this from a TW competitor's website:



So not quite, 2Hare. But thanks for trying anyway.

lol im attempting smack down? you are the one who's trying to argue with me, and I'm trying to smack you down? You really do see things quite differently from normal people don't you?

So we should take Federer, the most famous gut/poly user, out of the equation for the sake of your argument huh? how convenient. If you can't come up with a better argument other than taking out Federer from your equations then there's no point arguing here, because I bet half of the people reading this is having Federer in mind.

Gut's not gonna lose 10 pounds everyone knows that. More like 3-5 pounds. I was talking about the poly part. I apologize if I wasn't specific enough, but gut it also a lot more powerful than poly. So at say 50 pounds (strung at 53-55), it's gonna be insanely powerful. That's why pros using full gut go upward of 60 pounds.

Smasher08
08-29-2011, 06:16 PM
You really do see things quite differently from normal people don't you?

Well if you think you're "normal", then yes I clearly do.

So we should take Federer, the most famous gut/poly user, out of the equation for the sake of your argument huh? how convenient.

Yep, that's what I said since he appears to be an outlier. Sorry that you can't build a straw man here.

Gut's not gonna lose 10 pounds everyone knows that. More like 3-5 pounds. I was talking about the poly part. I apologize if I wasn't specific enough, but gut it also a lot more powerful than poly. So at say 50 pounds (strung at 53-55), it's gonna be insanely powerful. That's why pros using full gut go upward of 60 pounds.

We're posting in a thread dedicated to natural gut mains and poly crosses . . . and you're talking solely about poly, huh? Without mentioning that key detail? While pontificating about the playability of the entire stringbed? Of course you were. :rolleyes:

And now, better yet, you're speaking as an authority about how gut mains behave at 50 lbs, eh? Perhaps you should go and read some of the posts by folks who string these kinds of hybrids at these tensions. God forbid, you might actually learn something, because "insanely powerful" they're not.

So like I said, thanks for trying anyway 2Hare.

2Hare
08-29-2011, 06:33 PM
Well if you think you're "normal", then yes I clearly do.



Yep, that's what I said since he appears to be an outlier. Sorry that you can't build a straw man here.



We're posting in a thread dedicated to natural gut mains and poly crosses . . . and you're talking solely about poly, huh? Without mentioning that key detail? While pontificating about the playability of the entire stringbed? Of course you were. :rolleyes:

And now, better yet, you're speaking as an authority about how gut mains behave at 50 lbs, eh? Perhaps you should go and read some of the posts by folks who string these kinds of hybrids at these tensions. God forbid, you might actually learn something, because "insanely powerful" they're not.

So like I said, thanks for trying anyway 2Hare.

Yea Federer's an outlier for using Gut/Poly, because not too many pros out there use this combo.

Rather than just trolling me without coming up with any useful information, why don't you come up with some examples of your "Gut/Poly" pros, beside Federer of course since he's a weirdo by your standard, that you think people should check out and then string lower than them?

Smasher08
08-29-2011, 06:45 PM
Rather than just trolling me without coming up with any useful information, why don't you come up with some examples of your "Gut/Poly" pros, beside Federer of course since he's a weirdo by your standard, that you think people should check out and then string lower than them?

Keep fighting, wounded soldier.

2Hare
08-29-2011, 06:50 PM
Keep fighting, wounded soldier.

Oh? No more flaming troll? I guess you are full now? Or moving on to trolling other topics? Don't come back either way, no one likes a troll and no one cares about a troll.

Mig1NC
08-30-2011, 03:52 AM
OK guys. Lets take it down a notch.

EDIT: By the way, I just got a Donnay X-Dual Silver strung up with Pacific Prime 17 mains at 54 and Prince Beast XP 16 at 50. I didn't have any 17 laying around or I would have gone that route. Had a match scheduled last night but got rained out. Will try again on Wednesday.

parasailing
08-31-2011, 12:01 AM
So went out tonight to hit some balls and not sure if the weather played a part but the temps were in the low 50s and it seems that all the polys with the exception of B5E seems to feel a tad stiffer than when the temps are warmer in the day.

First up was VS team with Cofocus which I had high hopes for but it slightly disappointed. Backhand slices were coming off the racquet nice and low with good underspin but on my forehand, I was not able to generate as much topspin and power. This is the first time hitting with it so maybe this might take a little time to break in the strings. It was not as soft and powerful as SPPP when initially strung up.

So I went back to VS team with SPPP and that gave me a bit more power, control, and spin production. For now, SPPP seems to be a good copoly to use as a cross as I like how soft it hits and still provides power and good spin production.

Mig1NC
08-31-2011, 03:06 AM
That's good to hear since SPPP is reported to have such good tension maintenance it should work well for a good long time as a cross to your VS.

Mig1NC
09-01-2011, 03:55 AM
Well, the spin only felt so-so on my pacific17/beast16 hybrid. All other catagories were really good though.

I really think you need a thinner poly than 16g to make the most of this setup.

Smasher08
09-01-2011, 04:14 AM
I really think you need a thinner poly than 16g to make the most of this setup.

If spin is related to the friction or lack thereof between the mains and the crosses, it stands to reason that the thickness of the crosses will affect this. Presumably the thinner the cross, the lower the friction since there will be less surface area coming into contact with the mains.

Avadia
09-01-2011, 07:59 AM
Well, the spin only felt so-so on my pacific17/beast16 hybrid. All other catagories were really good though.

I really think you need a thinner poly than 16g to make the most of this setup.

If spin is related to the friction or lack thereof between the mains and the crosses, it stands to reason that the thickness of the crosses will affect this. Presumably the thinner the cross, the lower the friction since there will be less surface area coming into contact with the mains.

I believe this is true. But you need to recognize that spin is only one factor of many. I have two racquets with this setup right now. One has a 100" head and is strung with Pacific Tough Gut 16 gauge in the mains and Co-focus 1.27 in the crosses. The other has a 95" head and has Pacific Classic 17 gauge in the mains and Co-Focus 1.23 in the crosses.

I find that I do get more spin from the thinner strings, but way too much pop off the stringbed on a flatter shot. The racquet with the larger head, which I would expect to have more pop, actually has a lot more control due to the thicker strings, even though it has less spin. It still generates plenty of power, but exhibits less of a trampoline-like feel off the stringbed. It just has a ton of controlled power. I have a lot more confidence swinging out with this racquet on service returns and flatter shots than the other. With the other racquet I feel like I have to hit with a ton of spin just to keep the ball in the court. So I suggest when evaluating your hybrids, that you take into consideration more factors than just spin generation.

Smasher08
09-01-2011, 08:09 AM
Agreed it's not a simple and straightforward thing. In your case I'm wondering if the tough gut has less trampolining than pac classic, and that it's not purely a function of the gauge.

JackB1
09-01-2011, 08:12 AM
Anyone have a good alternative for the poly crosses with gut mains? I want to soften things up a little. Are there any synguts that are round and slippery like copoly?

Avadia
09-01-2011, 10:53 AM
Agreed it's not a simple and straightforward thing. In your case I'm wondering if the tough gut has less trampolining than pac classic, and that it's not purely a function of the gauge.

Actually, I was thinking the same thing. I'm sure gauge plays into it too. But I bet the tough gut has less power and more control than the classic gut, even at the same gauge. I still have a half a set of both to play around with, so I will continue to test this theory.

The Big Kahuna
09-01-2011, 11:50 PM
First up was VS team with Cofocus which I had high hopes for but it slightly disappointed. Backhand slices were coming off the racquet nice and low with good underspin but on my forehand, I was not able to generate as much topspin and power. This is the first time hitting with it so maybe this might take a little time to break in the strings. It was not as soft and powerful as SPPP when initially strung up.

What gauge and tension did you use on the VS Team / MSV Co-Focus set-up?

The higher you go, the less power and topspin you are likely to get with this hybrid.

parasailing
09-02-2011, 11:06 AM
What gauge and tension did you use on the VS Team / MSV Co-Focus set-up?

The higher you go, the less power and topspin you are likely to get with this hybrid.

All the test are 17 gauge strings and I stung up Co Focus at 52lbs like all the other copolys I test with. I just didn't get much power like some of you did but I will give it another go when the temps are much warmer to see if this is like Scorpion which is temperature sensitive.

Smasher08
09-02-2011, 11:11 AM
All the test are 17 gauge strings and I stung up Co Focus at 52lbs like all the other copolys I test with. I just didn't get much power like some of you did but I will give it another go when the temps are much warmer to see if this is like Scorpion which is temperature sensitive.

You might also want to consider trying Co-Focus in 1.18 as well.

parasailing
09-02-2011, 11:19 AM
You might also want to consider trying Co-Focus in 1.18 as well.

Thanks for the suggestion but I am going to stay away from 18 gauge strings as my past experience with X1, Alpha Gut, and WC MB were not that great. I feel 18 gauge has too much trampoline effect and prefer the 17 gauge variant.

Only string remanining to try is Kirschbaum PL2 and then I will be done with all these string tests for now :).

I Heart Thomas Muster
09-02-2011, 01:48 PM
Anyone have a good alternative for the poly crosses with gut mains? I want to soften things up a little. Are there any synguts that are round and slippery like copoly?

Gamma TNT has always struck me as slippery. It feels like it has a slick coating. One of my all time favorite syn guts.

I Heart Thomas Muster
09-02-2011, 01:54 PM
I've now settled on Babolat Tonic + 15L on the mains at 54 lbs and Weiss Cannon Black5Edge on the crosses at 52 in my YT Rad Pro racquets. I cannot believe the feel, spin and longevity I've been getting with this setup. I really do believe this set up offers the most spin of anything else I've tried and it's much easier on my gimpy wrist. Besides all the previously mentioned attributes it's like the strings are locked in place. Even weeks later and they barely move. I break string fairly quickly but these have held up amazing.

Even when my wrist gets better this is gonna be my setup for a loooooong time.

TimothyO
09-02-2011, 03:31 PM
If spin is related to the friction or lack thereof between the mains and the crosses, it stands to reason that the thickness of the crosses will affect this. Presumably the thinner the cross, the lower the friction since there will be less surface area coming into contact with the mains.

This has been my experience but as others have mentioned you also get more power which, if not tamed by sufficient top spin, can send balls long.

So frame stiffness also plays a role. A soft frame can suck some power out of the total frame/string machine and also increase spin-friendly dwell time. (This is why I almost wish we had a third forum beyond string and racquets specifically geared to discussion of setup "systems"...spin friendly systems, high power systems, low power systems, control systems...I think it's more helpful to think in terms of total package than isolated components...)

On my PSLGT when I changed from 16g Touch and 17g Cofocus cross to Team and 18g Cofocus there was a significant boost in spin and power but the dense pattern and soft frame meant it was still controllable.

Today I bought a second Speed 300 and had it strung with VS Team 17g mains and BB Ace 18g* crosses at the same reference tension as my Touch/CoFocus setup. Eager to see how they compare in power and spin.

*my local source for MSV is changing locations ans can't ship anything for a while. :-(

TimothyO
09-02-2011, 03:32 PM
I've now settled on Babolat Tonic + 15L on the mains at 54 lbs and Weiss Cannon Black5Edge on the crosses at 52 in my YT Rad Pro racquets. I cannot believe the feel, spin and longevity I've been getting with this setup. I really do believe this set up offers the most spin of anything else I've tried and it's much easier on my gimpy wrist. Besides all the previously mentioned attributes it's like the strings are locked in place. Even weeks later and they barely move. I break string fairly quickly but these have held up amazing.

Even when my wrist gets better this is gonna be my setup for a loooooong time.

They're moving but snapping back into place which is the beauty of this hybrid.

Will have to try B5E at some point!

TimothyO
09-02-2011, 04:10 PM
Anyone have a good alternative for the poly crosses with gut mains? I want to soften things up a little. Are there any synguts that are round and slippery like copoly?

Jack,

I tried a bunch of multis and synguts in search of a low friction cross. My favorite was Xcel at one point but ultimately nothing compared to a coploy cross, especially wrt durability. Multis and syngut lock up MUCH faster than a copoly.

scotus
09-02-2011, 05:24 PM
I have tried B5E on the cross with VS mains.

What a disappointment. A very mediocre string with less than average spin potential.

I haven't tried B5E in the mains though.

For a cross string, RPM Blast is far better than B5E in terms of performance although it is only good for a couple of hitting sessions.

mixedmedia
09-03-2011, 01:35 PM
I too was not as impressed with B5E as many others were (I didn't like the feel of it in my arm). I tried it full bed along with some other polys before moving to natural gut with smooth poly cross. From what I've heard, if poly's in the cross, profiled is not the way to go.

The Big Kahuna
09-03-2011, 01:52 PM
PLAYTEST UPDATE:

After 6 hours of play with the MSV Co-Focus 18g hybrid @ 48 (with KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains @ 52) in my Head Youtek Prestige Pro I am ready to declare this playtest to an end. Every time I put down this racquet to try one with another poly (Weiss Silverstring or Kirshbaum Pro Line II) while they both feel very good, I can wait to get back to the MSV. The feel and ball pocketing is SO much better. I have never felt strings with so much comfort, spin, control, and feel. The power is dialed down just a tad from the other two strings, but more balls go IN the court as a result. My groundstrokes and serves are much more consistent than they have been with anything else to date and it feels like the racquet is simply an part of my arm - it is almost as if I am "throwing the ball" back. The sweet spot feels huge and the picketing is insane! I am totally addicted. It is really like a whole new game for me. Fantastic!

TimothyO
09-03-2011, 04:31 PM
Threw serves today with the Team/Ace hybrid. More (controllable) power than Touch/CoFocus and great spin potential. But where CoFocus remains smooth the Ace is already "denting" at the intersections with the gut mains. I've seen this before with other polys and suspect the stringbed will lock up pretty fast at this rate.

There's something special about CoFocus. Bend most other polys and they have significant memory and stay bent (Ace did this when I bent it). CoFocus remains smooth. It's as if its surface is hard and resists crimpling but it's also very pliable.

Once my local MSV source settles in I look forward to trying Team and CoFocus 18 with this frame (the shop in Atlanta carries a huge variety of cofocus colors!)

parasailing
09-03-2011, 08:00 PM
I gave Cofocus another three hours on the court and this is not the string for me. I had a hard time keeping the ball in the court when hitting full out on the ball. They would sail out by a few feet compared to my VS Team with SPPP which gave me more spin and control but this setup snapped yesterday so I will string up another set with SPPP and Scorpion and do a side by side comparison to narrow down the one I like.

I agree that B5E in a cross isn't spectacular but I think it is very consistent string especially when the temperature drops down in the 50s. It isn't as stiff in colder temperatures as the other copolys I have tried.

Mig1NC
09-04-2011, 04:23 AM
Well, the spin only felt so-so on my pacific17/beast16 hybrid. All other catagories were really good though.

I really think you need a thinner poly than 16g to make the most of this setup.

I've got about 3 hrs on the setup. I'm going to have to ammend my previous comment. The Pacific Prime/ Prince Beast XP hybrid does indeed produce some pretty good spin.

I took may ball machine out yesterday and hit on it for a while. My heavy spin forehands were definately jumping up more than some of my previous experiments.

I need to play against one of my regular opponents to get there feedback.

The reason I am interested in the Beast is becuase some people say it plays pretty similarly throughout its tension loss. Which makes it a perfect candidate for crossing on gut mains.

neverstopplaying
09-04-2011, 04:39 AM
The reason I am interested in the Beast is becuase some people say it plays pretty similarly throughout its tension loss. Which makes it a perfect candidate for crossing on gut mains.

I can attest to that fact. I regularly use gut/beast combo as I find a very consistent string bed over an extended period.

The Big Kahuna
09-04-2011, 05:14 PM
All the test are 17 gauge strings and I stung up Co Focus at 52lbs like all the other copolys I test with. I just didn't get much power like some of you did but I will give it another go when the temps are much warmer to see if this is like Scorpion which is temperature sensitive.

I would drop the guage down to 18 on the MSV and lower the tension 10% and see how it plays. I think you might be surprised.

The Big Kahuna
09-04-2011, 05:17 PM
Thanks for the suggestion but I am going to stay away from 18 gauge strings as my past experience with X1, Alpha Gut, and WC MB were not that great. I feel 18 gauge has too much trampoline effect and prefer the 17 gauge variant.

Only string remanining to try is Kirschbaum PL2 and then I will be done with all these string tests for now :).

MSV Co.-Focus 17L (1.18)

Stringforum.net ranking: 94% satisfaction / PPR (price to performance ratio) 3.87 (ranked 8th best OVERALL of any string made).

The Big Kahuna
09-04-2011, 05:20 PM
*my local source for MSV is changing locations ans can't ship anything for a while. :-(

Have you tried Guts and Glory as a source for MSV?

tennisaddict2223
09-04-2011, 08:40 PM
I have used VS Team / Scorpion 1.22 for a while and it was a great setup. I just gave up on this because the cost was too high for me.

One setup that I use and works very well is Gamma Live Wire mains and Solinco Tour bite crosses. Obviously not gut but as close to gut as you can get without the price tag. The gamma last longer than gut and feels just as good. What is even better is that a reel of Live Wire does not go above 100 dollars. Just an alternative I thought i would throw out there. I hit with Prestige Pro the mains at 57 crosses at 55 and love it!

Mig1NC
09-05-2011, 03:36 AM
I can attest to that fact. I regularly use gut/beast combo as I find a very consistent string bed over an extended period.

Cool. Have you tried 17g Beast in the crosses? Does it maintain playability like the 16g?

TimothyO
09-05-2011, 04:32 AM
Have you tried Guts and Glory as a source for MSV?

Yes, those are my guys! Wasn't sure if we're allowed to memtion them. I live in Atlanta and their service is great! They're moving into a bricks and mortar location and are down for now. Should re-open this week. Orders usually arrive in a day or two since they're located nearby.

I guess it was a happy accident since Your Serve Tennis only had Ace available for 18g options. Just hitting serves atm due to ankle issue but I'm really enjoying the Ace 18g crosses and Team mains. Lots of power but superior spin potential keeps the ball in. While Ace appears more slippery than CoFocus it is notching where CoFocus doesn't.

What's interesting about the Ace notching is that unlike other strings it still slides back into place. So it takes more energy to pop the gut mains out of the Ace notches (CoFocus doesn't notch as much so it's easier to slide the mains) but they slide right back.

parasailing
09-06-2011, 10:58 AM
After stringing up another racquet with VS team and SPPP, this is definitely the setup for me. This hybrid work really well from the get go. You get the soft and plush feel from the natural gut mains and the SPPP adds a good deal of control without being overly crisp or pingy.

I tried Scorpion which was my default string in another setup and it just didn't compare. SPPP might not have as much pop as other strings but the control I got was amazing. I was returning serves with much more precision and control.

TimothyO
09-06-2011, 11:23 AM
What's SPPP?

Now that I've settled on matched frames trying different strings is going to be a lot more fun! :)

Mig1NC
09-06-2011, 12:10 PM
What's SPPP?

Now that I've settled on matched frames trying different strings is going to be a lot more fun! :)

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5930197&postcount=1

GlenK
09-06-2011, 01:00 PM
^^That's great Mig1NC, somehow I missed this when posted.

Thanks!!!

Mig1NC
09-06-2011, 01:02 PM
You are very welcome!

I remember when I started on TT, half the time I was like "WTF are they talking about??"

That thread is good info.

parasailing
09-11-2011, 04:32 PM
After 8 hours hitting with VS Team mains and SPPP, I have found my cross string :).

It maintains good tension, doesn't have as much pingy feel compared to the other copolys I hve tried and is very comfortable on the arm.

The string helps provide good control, decent comfort, power, and spin production. While it isn't the best in any one category, it does well in all aspects making it a good string for the time being until the next hyped string comes along.

lefty10spro
09-11-2011, 04:54 PM
I can attest to that fact. I regularly use gut/beast combo as I find a very consistent string bed over an extended period.

Pacific Tough Gut 16L mains and Prince Beast XL 16 crosses is tennis heaven on this earth and it LASTS and maintains it's playability and spin!

Smasher08
09-11-2011, 05:09 PM
After 8 hours hitting with VS Team mains and SPPP, I have found my cross string :).

It maintains good tension, doesn't have as much pingy feel compared to the other copolys I hve tried and is very comfortable on the arm.

The string helps provide good control, decent comfort, power, and spin production. While it isn't the best in any one category, it does well in all aspects making it a good string for the time being until the next hyped string comes along.

Nice. It would be great to see a follow up review after 15 hours.

ben123
09-12-2011, 03:52 PM
After 8 hours hitting with VS Team mains and SPPP, I have found my cross string :).

It maintains good tension, doesn't have as much pingy feel compared to the other copolys I hve tried and is very comfortable on the arm.

The string helps provide good control, decent comfort, power, and spin production. While it isn't the best in any one category, it does well in all aspects making it a good string for the time being until the next hyped string comes along.

you play with the pstgt dont you? at what tension did you string the hybrid?

parasailing
09-13-2011, 10:07 AM
you play with the pstgt dont you? at what tension did you string the hybrid?

Yes, I use a PSTGT and string the mains at 58lbs and SPPP at 53lbs. I will probably try various tension up to 55lbs on SPPP cross if it plays well for another 12 hours or more.

Matt H.
09-14-2011, 03:58 PM
I strung up a VS gut main RPM cross hybrid yesterday.

too much power, not able to put enough spin and hit sharp angles. Felt like the only directional playability on the ball was north/south.

I will admit, the "feel" at impact is that sweet sweet combination of smooth/crisp/pop that is very addicting.

Keifers
09-14-2011, 11:37 PM
I strung up a VS gut main RPM cross hybrid yesterday.

too much power, not able to put enough spin and hit sharp angles. Felt like the only directional playability on the ball was north/south.

I will admit, the "feel" at impact is that sweet sweet combination of smooth/crisp/pop that is very addicting.
Tensions? racquet? head size?

What strings were you using before?

Boricua
09-16-2011, 12:21 PM
After stringing up another racquet with VS team and SPPP, this is definitely the setup for me. This hybrid work really well from the get go. You get the soft and plush feel from the natural gut mains and the SPPP adds a good deal of control without being overly crisp or pingy.

I tried Scorpion which was my default string in another setup and it just didn't compare. SPPP might not have as much pop as other strings but the control I got was amazing. I was returning serves with much more precision and control.

How does gut/SPPP compare with TCS in spin, control and comfort?

parasailing
09-16-2011, 07:28 PM
How does gut/SPPP compare with TCS in spin, control and comfort?

Tcs has more spin, equal in power and slightly less in comfort. Only problem with tcs is poor tension maintenance lasting about 6 hours.

parasailing
09-18-2011, 08:34 PM
Hit with VS Team mains and SPPP for another 3 hours and it seems that the string is not as solid as before.

I felt some vibration that wasn't there before so it looks like the string has a good 8 to 10 hours of solid play. The string is still playable but didn't have that great control and solid feel like a fresh set of string.

I will be trying a different tension to see if this makes any difference in my next setup.

Smasher08
09-18-2011, 08:43 PM
Sorry to hear that, parasailing. For some reason, I think I read in a thread somewhere that SPPP is very good but not long lived.

Hidious
09-18-2011, 10:49 PM
Hit with VS Team mains and SPPP for another 3 hours and it seems that the string is not as solid as before.

I felt some vibration that wasn't there before so it looks like the string has a good 8 to 10 hours of solid play. The string is still playable but didn't have that great control and solid feel like a fresh set of string.

I will be trying a different tension to see if this makes any difference in my next setup.

Not able to resist the hype, i've also been trying VS Gut hybrids lately and my experience has been very similar to yours. VS Team / WC Silverstring was literally too good to be true the first 3~4 hours. I was thrilled as i don't break too many strings and Silvestring is said to be hands down the best poly available in terms of tension maintenance. Crossed with gut, that absolute best in this department, i thought this was going to be the best value job i ever strung.

But it happened; after 4 hours or so, the string bed became anemic and dead feeling. I actually told my partner that i thought the balls were dead, but he laughed as he had just opened new cans.

I sprayed a little lube on the sweetspot today and i feel like it might have restored a little bit of the initial magic.

parasailing
09-18-2011, 11:00 PM
VS hybrid is no hype. Once you try it, you won't go back unless you are low on cash:twisted:. The only thing is finding a good copoly cross to go with it.

Right now, SPPP lasts about 8 to 10 hours before it starts to fade. I find Silverstring lasts the longest of all the copoly I have tried so far but is a bit too crisp for my taste so I guess I just have to cut it out and restring the cross with SPPP.

ben123
09-19-2011, 11:23 AM
anybody tried polys like pacific poly force or p poly force xtreme as cross this could be good

Matt H.
09-19-2011, 02:05 PM
Tensions? racquet? head size?

What strings were you using before?

VS-58 mains, RPM 56 cross.

Youtek Prestige Pro


normally full rpm at 55.

Mig1NC
09-19-2011, 06:40 PM
anybody tried polys like pacific poly force or p poly force xtreme as cross this could be good

I've used the Pacific Poly Gut ATP 17 hybrid set, which comes with tough gut and poly force.

I really liked this setup. I ran gut in the mains.