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Wilander Fan
01-12-2011, 08:19 AM
If I had to pick the next guy to occupy a top 2 ranking, it would be Soderling. Hes pretty good on all surfaces and has improved his game on fast surfaces (Paris Indoor). His first serve and forehand are huge weapons and his return is very underrated.

Probably wont win the AO but he is my dark horse for RG. Knocking on the door 2 years in a row means he knows how to win there.

dandelion_smiley
01-12-2011, 08:21 AM
If I had to pick the next guy to occupy a top 2 ranking, it would be Soderling. Hes pretty good on all surfaces and has improved his game on fast surfaces (Paris Indoor). His first serve and forehand are huge weapons and his return is very underrated.

Probably wont win the AO but he is my dark horse for RG. Knocking on the door 2 years in a row means he knows how to win there.

True, Soderling is a way bigger threat than Murray or Djokovic. As long as Federer and Nadal are top 2 and playing well, I don't see it coming soon, tho.

Bud
01-12-2011, 08:21 AM
If I had to pick the next guy to occupy a top 2 ranking, it would be Soderling. Hes pretty good on all surfaces and has improved his game on fast surfaces (Paris Indoor). His first serve and forehand are huge weapons and his return is very underrated.

Probably wont win the AO but he is my dark horse for RG. Knocking on the door 2 years in a row means he knows how to win there.

Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Murray all have better and more complete games. Soderling will stay around number five or lower the remainder of his career.

Murray will once again supplant Soderling at number 4, soon.

dandelion_smiley
01-12-2011, 08:23 AM
Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Murray all have better and more complete games. Soderling will stay around number five or lower the remainder of his career.

Murray will once again supplant Soderling at number 4, soon.

Bro, Murray is defending 1200 points at the Australian Open. Soderling, what, 10? Murray is going to have to win the whole thing if he is to climb back to no 4 after the tournament.

Wilander Fan
01-12-2011, 08:49 AM
Bro, Murray is defending 1200 points at the Australian Open. Soderling, what, 10? Murray is going to have to win the whole thing if he is to climb back to no 4 after the tournament.

Its all part of Murray's strategy which he has been hatching since 2009. He is apparently some kind of misunderstood tennis genius.

John_Doe
01-12-2011, 08:55 AM
I think Soderling does not currently have a top 2 game and his game is probably somewhat inferior to Djokovic and Murray. However, whenever I see Soderling play his best, it appears as if his potential may be higher than the other two, and lets face it, the way things are right now it doesn't look like anybody will be unthroning either Federer or Nadal with their current level of play. But Soderling looks like he has what it takes to take his game to the next level. Also, this may be quite some time away, but I think Del Potro sure has what it takes as well, but he has this injury to recover first before we can start talking about it.

Bud
01-12-2011, 08:59 AM
Bro, Murray is defending 1200 points at the Australian Open. Soderling, what, 10? Murray is going to have to win the whole thing if he is to climb back to no 4 after the tournament.

Doesn't matter. Murray is a better player with more natural talent. he will definitely end up ahead of Soderling once again. Didn't anyone ever teach you that cream rises to the top? Soderling isn't cream :)

I think Soderling does not currently have a top 2 game and his game is probably somewhat inferior to Djokovic and Murray. However, whenever I see Soderling play his best, it appears as if his potential may be higher than the other two, and lets face it, the way things are right now it doesn't look like anybody will be unthroning either Federer or Nadal with their current level of play. But Soderling looks like he has what it takes to take his game to the next level. Also, this may be quite some time away, but I think Del Potro sure has what it takes as well, but he has this injury to recover first before we can start talking about it.

Agree. On any day, Soderling playing at his best has a shot against anybody. But a huge part of staying in the top 5 is consistency.

Wilander Fan
01-12-2011, 09:07 AM
Doesn't matter. Murray is a better player with more natural talent. he will definitely end up ahead of Soderling once again. Didn't anyone ever teach you that cream rises to the top? Soderling isn't cream :)



Agree. On any day, Soderling playing at his best has a shot against anybody. But a huge part of staying in the top 5 is consistency.

But he has been rising consistently. I was sold when he won the Paris Indoor beating Llodra and Monfils, both red hot, in their own backyard. That was a really impressive win...and a 1000 event as well.

Carolina Racquet
01-12-2011, 09:22 AM
[QUOTE=Bud;5315176]Doesn't matter. Murray is a better player with more natural talent. he will definitely end up ahead of Soderling once again. Didn't anyone ever teach you that cream rises to the top? Soderling isn't cream :)

Bud... not sure if you can call Murray "creamier" than Soderling. I've seen Murray wilt in big matches... quite a bit.

Mentally, I think Soderling is a little stronger. Murray has the wheels, for sure, but Soderling has a forehand and IMO, a little more of a level head on the court.

dandelion_smiley
01-12-2011, 11:41 AM
Doesn't matter. Murray is a better player with more natural talent. he will definitely end up ahead of Soderling once again. Didn't anyone ever teach you that cream rises to the top? Soderling isn't cream :)

I'm starting to consider Soderling a bigger threat in Slams than Murray. At least he's CONSISTANTLY making quarters only to lose to either Federer or Nadal (beat both already). Aren't Slams considered "cream"?

Murray on the other hand can show up to play, reach a final and then lose in the 3rd round of the next 3. If Slams were to decide who's where in the rankings, it would be Soderling>Murray

bolo
01-12-2011, 11:45 AM
I would bet against soderling making the final at RG this year. I would go with a QF or SF loss.

veroniquem
01-12-2011, 11:45 AM
Apart from RG, Sod hasn't shown much in slams. Went out meekly to Rafa at W and to Fed at USO.
Murray is a 2 time finalist on hard court: a little bit of respect wouldn't hurt (including AO 2010: imo he's a major contender this year as well).

batz
01-12-2011, 11:52 AM
Apart from RG, Sod hasn't shown much in slams. Went out meekly to Rafa at W and to Fed at USO.
Murray is a 2 time finalist on hard court: a little bit of respect wouldn't hurt (including AO 2010: imo he's a major contender this year as well).

And a two time semi-finalist on grass. Remind me how Sod did against Murray at the WTF? Robin's doing well - just won his first MS. Murray has won 6 times that many of course - despite Robin being 3 years older.

athiker
01-12-2011, 12:17 PM
Movement seemed to be holding Soderling back and to me he recently looks just a touch trimmer and seemed to be moving better around the court. It will be tough to reach top 2, but I suppose anything could happen...

#3 is well within reach. He trails Djokovic by less than 500 pts. In Australia 2010 Djokovic made it to the Quarterfinals and Soderling lost in the 1st round. Djokovic is defending 360 points and Soderling 10.

IvanAndreevich
01-12-2011, 12:24 PM
Doesn't matter. Murray is a better player with more natural talent. he will definitely end up ahead of Soderling once again. Didn't anyone ever teach you that cream rises to the top? Soderling isn't cream :)
Soderling has a better forehand, second serve, and first serve than Murray. If he can keep it together mentally he's a better player than Murray. Murray has had the better career, but at this moment Sod is playing better tennis (as evident by the ranking).

Bryan Swartz
01-12-2011, 12:31 PM
Murray on the other hand can show up to play, reach a final and then lose in the 3rd round of the next 3. If Slams were to decide who's where in the rankings, it would be Soderling>Murray

2010 performance in Slams:

AO: Soderling R128(l. Granollers), Murray F(l. Federer)
FO: Soderling F(l. Nadal), Murray R16(l. Berdych)
WM: Soderling Q(l. Nadal), Murray S(l. Nadal)
USO: Soderling Q(l. Federer), Murray R32(l. Wawrinka)

Points from Slams, 2010 --

Soderling: 1,930
Murray: 2,145

Hrm, guess that didn't work for 2010 -- which btw was, by far, Soderling's best year in terms of Slam performance.

dandelion_smiley
01-12-2011, 12:36 PM
2010 performance in Slams:

AO: Soderling R128(l. Granollers), Murray F(l. Federer)
FO: Soderling F(l. Nadal), Murray R16(l. Berdych)
WM: Soderling Q(l. Nadal), Murray S(l. Nadal)
USO: Soderling Q(l. Federer), Murray R32(l. Wawrinka)

Points from Slams, 2010 --

Soderling: 1,930
Murray: 2,145

Hrm, guess that didn't work for 2010 -- which btw was, by far, Soderling's best year in terms of Slam performance.

That's one way to look at it. Soderling showed up to play at the French Open, Wimbledon and the US Open, Murray was a factor in Australia and at Wimbledon.

Same goes for 2009 - Murray underperformed in Australia and the US Open, played decent at the French Open and well at Wimbledon,
Soderling lost in 2009 to Federer 3 times, at the French Open, Wimbledon and the US Open.

Count the points from 2009 together with 2010 and see who's got more - Murray or Soderling.

Bryan Swartz
01-12-2011, 12:45 PM
First of all, adding 2009 does not address your point, which was that Soderling would be ranked ahead of Murray if you counted only Slams. He would not.

If you add 2009 and 2010 together, you get this:

Soderling: 3,715
Murray: 3,585

Soderling ahead by a hair. Again it's a mixed bag(as you might expect with two players so close in the rankings) -- Soderling's was more consistent at the last three Slams both years -- his AO was also worse both years than any Murray Slam over the period.

So again, I see nothing to justify the point that Soderling > Murray in Slams.

Lsmkenpo
01-12-2011, 01:16 PM
And a two time semi-finalist on grass. Remind me how Sod did against Murray at the WTF? Robin's doing well - just won his first MS. Murray has won 6 times that many of course - despite Robin being 3 years older.


Remind me how Murray did against Soderling the two previous meetings to the WTF?

What was it again, maybe two straight set losses while being breadsticked a set in both matches. But lets not mention this, I hate to hijack a good Murray thread.

dandelion_smiley
01-12-2011, 01:19 PM
First of all, adding 2009 does not address your point, which was that Soderling would be ranked ahead of Murray if you counted only Slams. He would not.

If you add 2009 and 2010 together, you get this:

Soderling: 3,715
Murray: 3,585

Soderling ahead by a hair. Again it's a mixed bag(as you might expect with two players so close in the rankings) -- Soderling's was more consistent at the last three Slams both years -- his AO was also worse both years than any Murray Slam over the period.

So again, I see nothing to justify the point that Soderling > Murray in Slams.
My point is Soderling is MORE consistant than Murray in Slams, he is less prone to being knocked out by a lesser player, Murray has gone out early in his last 2 US Opens, in his forelast Australian Open and is not a threat to anyone at the French Open, even at 2009 Wimbledon he lost to Andy Roddick (doesn't matter Roddick was in great shape, turns out now it was an anomaly)

batz
01-12-2011, 01:25 PM
Remind me how Murray did against Soderling the two previous meetings to the WTF?

What was it again, maybe two straight set losses while being breadsticked a set in both matches. But lets not mention this, I hate to hijack a good Murray thread.

You would have beaten Murray at that point last year - he was still in his post AO 'pumped by Roger in slam final again' mega-slump. At the WTF on the other hand, Sod was on a high - new world number 4, first time MS winner - and yet Murray gubbed him.

Bryan Swartz
01-12-2011, 01:36 PM
My point is Soderling is MORE consistant than Murray in Slams, he is less prone to being knocked out by a lesser player, Murray has gone out early in his last 2 US Opens, in his forelast Australian Open and is not a threat to anyone at the French Open, even at 2009 Wimbledon he lost to Andy Roddick (doesn't matter Roddick was in great shape, turns out now it was an anomaly)

This is only true if you ignore the AO. Soderlings last two he lost to Grannolers(113th) and Baghdatis(97th). In the last three years, Murray has only lost twice to players not ranked in the Top 20 at a Slam. Those guys are Wawrinka at the most recent USO(27th) and Tsonga at the 2008 Australian(38th).

The last time Murray had a Slam loss even arguably as bad as the Grannollers one was when he was a teenager(vs. Clement at the 2005 USO).

Lsmkenpo
01-12-2011, 02:07 PM
You would have beaten Murray at that point last year - he was still in his post AO 'pumped by Roger in slam final again' mega-slump. At the WTF on the other hand, Sod was on a high - new world number 4, first time MS winner - and yet Murray gubbed him.

Yes, the WTF should be the real measure, a court that plays like no other on tour, slow and low bouncing, perfect for a player like Soderling to play his attacking game against Murray the defensive player, huh?

dandelion_smiley
01-12-2011, 02:08 PM
This is only true if you ignore the AO. Soderlings last two he lost to Grannolers(113th) and Baghdatis(97th). In the last three years, Murray has only lost twice to players not ranked in the Top 20 at a Slam. Those guys are Wawrinka at the most recent USO(27th) and Tsonga at the 2008 Australian(38th).

The last time Murray had a Slam loss even arguably as bad as the Grannollers one was when he was a teenager(vs. Clement at the 2005 USO).

now we can argue whos considered a "lesser player", ok I ment top 10, you don't see Soderling losing to guys in Slams outside of the top 10 (except Australia), Murray indeed

Sid_Vicious
01-12-2011, 02:09 PM
Soderling is a dumb ball basher.

OrangePower
01-12-2011, 02:12 PM
Sod will not occupy at top 2 ranking, simply because he is too old. By the time Rafa and Fed relinquish their deathgrip on 1 and 2, Sod will be past his prime.

Lsmkenpo
01-12-2011, 02:16 PM
This is only true if you ignore the AO. Soderlings last two he lost to Grannolers(113th) and Baghdatis(97th). .

The last time Murray had a Slam loss even arguably as bad as the Grannollers one was when he was a teenager(vs. Clement at the 2005 USO).

What a disgrace for Soderling to lose to 97th ranked Marcos Baghdatis the man with a winning H2H record over Andy Murray and also the same man who knocked Murray out of Wimbledon a few years ago, Robin should feel ashamed.

Bryan Swartz
01-12-2011, 02:23 PM
now we can argue whos considered a "lesser player", ok I ment top 10, you don't see Soderling losing to guys in Slams outside of the top 10 (except Australia), Murray indeed

Nah, I think we've safely beaten it to death. Depends on how you measure it. I don't think it makes sense to make a general point about Slams that fails when you exclude on of them.

cc0509
01-12-2011, 03:20 PM
If I had to pick the next guy to occupy a top 2 ranking, it would be Soderling. Hes pretty good on all surfaces and has improved his game on fast surfaces (Paris Indoor). His first serve and forehand are huge weapons and his return is very underrated.

Probably wont win the AO but he is my dark horse for RG. Knocking on the door 2 years in a row means he knows how to win there.

Oh God, I hope not! He has the personality of a dead rat! Please, keep Nadal and Federer as 1 and 2 for at least a while so I can enjoy the game!

cc0509
01-12-2011, 03:23 PM
Sod will not occupy at top 2 ranking, simply because he is too old. By the time Rafa and Fed relinquish their deathgrip on 1 and 2, Sod will be past his prime.

Thank goodness! Let's hope and pray Nadal and Federer don't get injured or sick!

KHSOLO
01-12-2011, 03:26 PM
Delpo uninjured would be in the 2 spot over all those

FedError
01-12-2011, 04:20 PM
If I had to pick the next guy to occupy a top 2 ranking, it would be Donald Young.

kishnabe
01-12-2011, 05:37 PM
Soderling would be top 2 but number 3 is defintly possibly and most likely if he win the Aussie!