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Meat
06-12-2005, 11:21 AM
I haven't been on this forum for a while. It's kind of cool that my "Why Consistency Works" thread is in the recommended threads though in the sticky.

If you've read that, you'll know that I'm a counter-puncher/pusher player who messes with people's heads and screws up their timing with sudden changes, variety, depth, etc.

My style depends on speed, finesse, and mostly forcing errors.

So, I started within the last month to try to become more aggressive. In a sense.

Instead of forcing errors and screwing people up (which has worked absolute wonders, and is my natural and most enjoyable game, believe it or not) I've taken it further. Now I'm employing drop shots, all kinds of touch, and am working obscene angles on the court.

I play like a Santoro. Except with one hand on both sides instead of two on both sides.

In becoming more "aggressive", I've begun to attack. Attack with STYLE, baby. I can volley reasonably well, and normally used that to finish off points after I forced a weak ball off the opponent. Now, I'm trying touch, barrages of drop shots and lobs, whatever -and it's even more devastating to the opponent than before.

I've never seen a person who plays like this other than a couple awkward professionals. coughbadassSantorocough.

I'm giving everyone I play absolute fits, especially in matches longer than one set. I'm curious to know if anyone else at all here uses this style.

Grimjack
06-12-2005, 11:27 AM
I haven't been on this forum for a while. It's kind of cool that my "Why Consistency Works" thread is in the recommended threads though in the sticky.

If you've read that, you'll know that I'm a counter-puncher/pusher player who messes with people's heads and screws up their timing with sudden changes, variety, depth, etc.

My style depends on speed, finesse, and mostly forcing errors.

So, I started within the last month to try to become more aggressive. In a sense.

Instead of forcing errors and screwing people up (which has worked absolute wonders, and is my natural and most enjoyable game, believe it or not) I've taken it further. Now I'm employing drop shots, all kinds of touch, and am working obscene angles on the court.

I play like a Santoro. Except with one hand on both sides instead of two on both sides.

In becoming more "aggressive", I've begun to attack. Attack with STYLE, baby. I can volley reasonably well, and normally used that to finish off points after I forced a weak ball off the opponent. Now, I'm trying touch, barrages of drop shots and lobs, whatever -and it's even more devastating to the opponent than before.

I've never seen a person who plays like this other than a couple awkward professionals. coughbadassSantorocough.

I'm giving everyone I play absolute fits, especially in matches longer than one set. I'm curious to know if anyone else at all here uses this style.

No, but I do enjoy watching players like you play, for what it's worth. Frankly, I'd rather watch you than me.

But my gameplan is to hit as many forehands as possible, and to hit every single one as hard as I frickin' can into the corners. And also for what it's worth, I have a great time doing that, too. Diff'fent strokes, and all that.

Meat
06-12-2005, 11:34 AM
Awesome. I dunno if I'm fun to watch.

I tried whacking balls into corners when starting. It didn't work for me. I usually don't aim for a lot of pace on balls at all, I just use spin and variety to create as much of an uncomfort level as possible in the other player.

Then I just started attacking the angles. Topspin into the sides. Occasionally I use deep moonballs to the backhand side or a deep, heavy sidespin approach on the backhand side, and put the ball away with a touch shot over the net.

Or I'll put on sidespin the other way and put it in a reachable range for the player. They'll try to get the ball back, and get frustrated further when the ball again curves away or into their body.

I've currently had five people actually break racquets when playing me, graphite shards everywhere and all that. Not to mention the screams I get from people. O.o

In one set matches, I usually win 6-3 or 6-4 because I'm generally busy just frustrating the hell out of the opponent. Most of the points are from lucky winners, frame shots, and accidents. I tend to keep people on the court much longer than I have to.

Whenever I play multiple sets, it tends to always go 6-3, 6-0. Hardly any points at all in the second set.

I DO get viewers when people watch, simply because everyone thinks it's amusing. But I'm running out of people to actually play. :D

Grimjack
06-12-2005, 12:01 PM
I've currently had five people actually break racquets when playing me, graphite shards everywhere and all that. Not to mention the screams I get from people. O.o


This is precisely why I like watching players like you. I enjoy the spectacle of human misery.

I DO get viewers when people watch...

From the Department of Redundancy Department... ;)

Anyway, keep at it. The game needs more players like you. At every level.

Meat
06-12-2005, 12:30 PM
LOL. Thanks for correcting me. I meant I get a few viewers when I play. :D

Tennis would be fun with more players like that. Then we get more screaming, more broken racquets, ALL OF IT. Tennis needs legal fistfights between points and changeovers, like hockey.

Making tennis a contact sport would do SO much for publicity. Then we'd get "ATP Street Tennis" video games like the companies feel the need to do with other sports, lol.

jimiforpres
06-12-2005, 02:42 PM
Your game sounds exactly like mine. My defense is my offense. But I am trying to add some offense (i.e. stronger serve, volleys, drives, etc.)

tennisplayer
06-12-2005, 03:50 PM
But Meat, how will this kind of technique get you to the next level? I sometimes hit with a 5.5 player, who also coaches me - and I can guarantee that he will chase mishits and junk balls down and kill them. And if you play doubles, such shots will most likely be put away too, because there are two guys on the other side, and chasing junk balls down will not be a problem. Now Santoro may be a junkballer by ATP standards, but at the club level, he will be far too powerful. And he can take powerful shots from ATP players and return junkballs, which is a different level of feel than we see at club levels.

Of course, you may be a gifted player with amazing touch, and in that case, I will eat my words gladly. If not, I fear this technique will doom your growth in tennis.

Kana Himezaki
06-12-2005, 03:56 PM
Tennisplayer - Good points. However, what Meat is trying to do does not involve mishits. His game involves gradual and sudden changes in timing, and jamming or running players. Generally forcing most errors them.

You produce consistent balls that are not attackable, and place them. Placement is generally the main point of his style of play. It's hard to attack, let alone kill a moderately fast spinny ball that curves into your body.

Jamming and running people around is a tactic used by all levels of play. You don't necessarily need pace to win.

In essence, "Meat" is attacking by putting the other player in awkward positions.

Touch and finesse will succeed at at levels, provided you can respond to and neutralize the power and weapons of other players. That's something Meat's game is build around.

tennisplayer
06-12-2005, 04:04 PM
In one set matches, I usually win 6-3 or 6-4 because I'm generally busy just frustrating the hell out of the opponent. Most of the points are from lucky winners, frame shots, and accidents. I tend to keep people on the court much longer than I have to.


Well, Kana, he says most of his points are from "lucky winners, frame shots, and accidents"... not clean winners or forced errors.

Kana Himezaki
06-12-2005, 04:05 PM
Actually, I believe he meant that the OTHER player's points come from those.

Meat
06-12-2005, 04:06 PM
Eh, sorry I forgot to clear that up. Thanks, Kana.

Yeah, most of their points come from the lucky shots. My points come from forcing them into errors and frustration as much as possible. I tend to keep people on the court as long as possible, which means they're going to get some extra points.

tennisplayer
06-12-2005, 04:15 PM
Hmm... Meat, maybe you're a Santoro in the making! I like to play people like you, so I get to find out the weaknesses in my game. I have lost to pushers, and recently, have had a lot of success against them - but you seem to be the mother of all pushers! Note, I don't mean that in a bad way.

Just out of curiosity, how would you rate yourself? 4.0? 4.5? Higher?

Meat
06-12-2005, 04:26 PM
Thanks. :mrgreen:

I wouldn't mind the match, nobody here wants to play me anymore. :P They find out their weaknesses, but to such an extent they're throwing things everywhere and just ready to give up the match.

Mother of all pushers? LOL. Maybe Father of all Pushers, rofl. Or the Angry Stepfather of all pushers.

The rankings people have given me vary. I tend to play around the 4.5 level, like Kana. I'm succeeding easily, some people have told me to move up. My strokes tend to be strange to watch, but nobody's denying the results.

Being able to say I'm a 5.0 would be nice. I'm currently working on developing the angles more. I don't think that at the 5.0+ level some of my tactics would work, although I still plan on jamming, executing touch shots, and frustrating the heck out of people. So I'm trying to develop more of the angles further in case I have to finish off the point.

takeuchi
06-12-2005, 05:58 PM
w00t go counterpunchers. turning defense into a winner just feels so great. And it kills your opponent inside.

Indiantwist
06-13-2005, 08:26 AM
I also play a similar game like you. I win most of the matches at my level (3.5). A lot has to do with my solid serve. I dont really employ lot of power on shots and mostly use deft and placement. Since iam fit and dont mind running all the match i usually win.

Its a diff story when i play solid power hitters at higher level. I still manage to return and get most balls in play with some angle , placements and drops, still it is tough to win against them. If not for my serve, i would have lost every match against them simply cause a 'consistent' power hitter is more likely to win point than a drop/lob/placer in the higher levels.

Iam trying to change my game and starting to employ more power in shots.

TheGreatBernie
06-13-2005, 12:29 PM
Counterpunchers are one thing, but backboards are annoying. I find myself backboarding backboarders right back. Have you ever faced a counterpuncher as skills as you? If so, what did you do?

Meat
06-13-2005, 03:37 PM
I also play a similar game like you. I win most of the matches at my level (3.5). A lot has to do with my solid serve. I dont really employ lot of power on shots and mostly use deft and placement. Since iam fit and dont mind running all the match i usually win.

Its a diff story when i play solid power hitters at higher level. I still manage to return and get most balls in play with some angle , placements and drops, still it is tough to win against them. If not for my serve, i would have lost every match against them simply cause a 'consistent' power hitter is more likely to win point than a drop/lob/placer in the higher levels.

Iam trying to change my game and starting to employ more power in shots.

It IS hard. I use placement and spin for everything. Power players aren't a problem for me, while they may win some points (especially off serves as I've stated, I can't always get the return in my favor), I can usually screw with their contact point and whatever else.

Consistent? He's not going to be when I'm done. :D It might be hard to win, but I'm already at a sort of high level. I'm considering moving up to a 5.0 to test the competition.

My style IS getting more demanding. A while ago I was forced to work a lot with my footwork so I'd be able to easily prepare and set up for what I wanted to do. I've been running everywhere, sort of like Nadal. To simply get the job done, I've had to develop my shots on all parts of the court. And I can't afford to make any errors, or not be consistent.

[QUOTE[Counterpunchers are one thing, but backboards are annoying. I find myself backboarding backboarders right back. Have you ever faced a counterpuncher as skills as you? If so, what did you do?[/QUOTE]

I'm both of them, baby. :D I've never really faced another player who
does the same things I do. I HAVE had problems with some tenacious
counter punchers (the hewitt type players) that mess with my game as well. If I'm not able to get in position comfortably for what I want to do, I'm going to have slight problems.

Urgh. Long. Typing. It doesn't help that I type slow.

papa
06-13-2005, 06:32 PM
I think this "method" might work at a lower level but I really have my doubts anyone falls for it above the 4.0 level. I've seen and played against these "spin doctors" and they don't impress me much. Give them stuff with little pace and they try to work their majic (which they all think original) but give them a steady stream of fast stuff and they are lost and end up just blocking it back.

Maybe "Meat" is different but I've heard it before.

Meat
06-13-2005, 06:36 PM
Look in the other thread on "Sidespin", I posted a response there.

Fast stuff is great, it's fine. The point is, if I'm able to build the point or attempt to force a shot, it's going to be hard to produce the "fast stuff". It's the same concept with moonballers. They give people fits with the high, deep topspin, because responding to it is hard and people often have problems taking it on the rise.

You find and give them a shot they're not used to, and that weapon turns into a normal shot you can "work the magic" on.

Another example at higher levels: Brad Gilbert and Aaron Krickstein. Krickstein had a huge forehand. But if you just hang in and look for a weakness, it's always there. I prefer to make it, usually. Gilbert found this in sending low, short, skidding slices that were hard for Krickstein to attack.