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Meat
06-12-2005, 11:56 AM
Whenever I play I make people scream, break racquets, and make them want to walk off the court. It's summed up in that "I'm having the best time of my LIFE" thread I made, and whatever else.

I take a power player, and they begin to throw things everywhere with some violent, primal screams added in.

I've taken pushers, and some of them just walk off the court.

So I'm posting on how.



If they're a "pusher", they probably want to get to each ball and put it back over the net, right? This applies to grinders and the such, and pretty much almost everyone who has any desire to get to the ball.

Use it against them then. Run them around the whole court. Or just try to make it so that they screw up even when pushing the balls back. Extreme levels of frustration there.

I mean, how do you plan to get the ball over the net if you can't even do it pushing? That feeling builds up, and they lose complete confidence.

This also works pretty well on slow players.

You don't use pace, those are the easiest balls for pushers to get back. So you use spin. Throw a moonball over the backhand side. Wait for the push, then attempt the drop shot/touch ball if you can. Lob it back over crosscourt. Go as high as possible as long as you can get it in, whatever works. Run them around the other side.

Make the balls pretty much reachable, just make them move. Do it as long as you feel like. Not much pace, just spin and placement. Run them diagonally most of the time.

You'll get an error eventually. If they don't make an error, they're bound to be exhausted. If they get a lucky winner or accidental shot, that's fine. You can live with it. You made it hell to get that.

Then do it again and again.



And what if they're fast? That's fine, too. Jam them. Completely.

Hit it at them. Throw a barrage of normal, deep, identical moderate spin slices. Whatever you can do consistently. Then add on a little sidespin, screw with their timing. Or add on more and make it suddenly curve into their body.

Speed doesn't help there, huh? Slow players do this better than fast players, but fast ones have hell with this. Try to put the balls into their body, whether by hitting into them or making it curve into them.



Other tactics I use include:

More changes in timing. If you want topspin, go normal topspin. Do it again. Then suddenly, add on heavy topspin. The slight changes force the most errors.

Touch. Lots of it. Rather than put the ball away at the net, drop it close or volley deep to about or a little past the middle. Barely reachable, isn't it? Toy with them.



Fun, right? Destroy their confidence in their game.

jimiforpres
06-12-2005, 01:39 PM
Something you can do against power hitters is just redirect their power. just keep you feet planted and swing the racquet with your wrist. that way you use the power supplied by them and move the ball around.

finchy
06-12-2005, 02:07 PM
if they are fast, just move them around and put balls behind them. use their speed against them.

Kana Himezaki
06-12-2005, 02:11 PM
Meat, good post, although I think you're still sadistic. My parents want to invite yours over next weekend.

As for power hitters, redirecting the pace is easy and fine.

I prefer to screw with their game. You change the rhythm gradually, and suddenly add on the extra spin, like Meat said. They still whack it as hard as they can, except...it's out.

If you play this way, you want to ruin their confidence.. Fast people, besides being vulnerable to jamming and hitting balls into their body, are usually not able to adjust when running down a sidespin ball that curves into them.

They expect the contact further ahead. If it curved outward, they'd be able to cope. But making it curve into them adds on the frustration and higher percentage error on fast players.

krnboijunsung
06-13-2005, 12:26 PM
Playing net against pushers is the best strategy.

Second best strategy? Dropshots and slices. When you use dropshots and slices, it brings the pushers up to net, and gets them out of their rhythm. They think "OH NO i can't cover the baseline. I have no defense!" If you bring them in with a slice, guess where you should be? At the net.

Netplay=screwed pusher.

Ace
06-13-2005, 12:54 PM
So what type of player DOES beat you?

Bungalo Bill
06-13-2005, 01:25 PM
Whenever I play I make people scream, break racquets, and make them want to walk off the court. It's summed up in that "I'm having the best time of my LIFE" thread I made, and whatever else.

I take a power player, and they begin to throw things everywhere with some violent, primal screams added in.

I've taken pushers, and some of them just walk off the court.

So I'm posting on how.



If they're a "pusher", they probably want to get to each ball and put it back over the net, right? This applies to grinders and the such, and pretty much almost everyone who has any desire to get to the ball.

Use it against them then. Run them around the whole court. Or just try to make it so that they screw up even when pushing the balls back. Extreme levels of frustration there.

I mean, how do you plan to get the ball over the net if you can't even do it pushing? That feeling builds up, and they lose complete confidence.

This also works pretty well on slow players.

You don't use pace, those are the easiest balls for pushers to get back. So you use spin. Throw a moonball over the backhand side. Wait for the push, then attempt the drop shot/touch ball if you can. Lob it back over crosscourt. Go as high as possible as long as you can get it in, whatever works. Run them around the other side.

Make the balls pretty much reachable, just make them move. Do it as long as you feel like. Not much pace, just spin and placement. Run them diagonally most of the time.

You'll get an error eventually. If they don't make an error, they're bound to be exhausted. If they get a lucky winner or accidental shot, that's fine. You can live with it. You made it hell to get that.

Then do it again and again.



And what if they're fast? That's fine, too. Jam them. Completely.

Hit it at them. Throw a barrage of normal, deep, identical moderate spin slices. Whatever you can do consistently. Then add on a little sidespin, screw with their timing. Or add on more and make it suddenly curve into their body.

Speed doesn't help there, huh? Slow players do this better than fast players, but fast ones have hell with this. Try to put the balls into their body, whether by hitting into them or making it curve into them.



Other tactics I use include:

More changes in timing. If you want topspin, go normal topspin. Do it again. Then suddenly, add on heavy topspin. The slight changes force the most errors.

Touch. Lots of it. Rather than put the ball away at the net, drop it close or volley deep to about or a little past the middle. Barely reachable, isn't it? Toy with them.



Fun, right? Destroy their confidence in their game.

You are a very smart and talented tennis player to be able to handle all types of players. My hat is off to you.

Meat
06-13-2005, 02:17 PM
Bungalo - Thanks. It's hard at times, simply because I'm not used and don't work with pace too much. I don't have the weapons other people have because whacking the ball doesn't work well for me.

So if I can't supply the winners, I make the other people supply the errors. Everything I have is built around spin and tactics.


Ace -The people that occasionally beat me are the tenacious players. The one's that don't get as frustrated. Power players I can usually work with. The pace is a problem in getting back, but I set up uncomfortable positions and destroy their contact zone. I can get around it.

The tenacious counter-punchers are the problem. So they stick with their game and adjust and adapt. Sometimes the occasional ones that mess with other people, the ones with my game.

So they ruin MY contact, MY ability to work with the ball. This usually happens on low, shorter, skidding slices, or starting with the serve.

Reason being it's harder for me to put exactly what I want on the ball and place it when the balls coming to me at 90+ mph. If they can pull off the serve, and I lose my chance to manipulate the point from the getgo, they're often able to do more of what they want with the ball.

Another bad aspect to this style of play is that no coaches are willing or don't know enough about the style to teach or improve a lot with it. I'm self-taught most of the time.

rocky b
06-13-2005, 06:06 PM
meat what level are you a good 5.0 would destroy you.

Meat
06-13-2005, 06:18 PM
Not quite. I've played some, playing against me (ah, I sound arrogant, unintentional) is generally harder than it sounds on here.

I lock on to weaknesses during the warmup and first two or three games, and attack for the rest of the match.

I have a good variety of approach shots, because my overall best (all consistent, this is in terms of attacking) is a deep slice. I can add on the underspin and biting effect, or add on the sidespin.

Even a 5.0 has problems when the rhythm and tactics of the other player is constantly changing. After three or four balls, when the opponent begins to adjust, you change it again. Whether by disguising a drop shot within the slices, adding more underspin on the deep slice so the ball pops straight up after the bounce, or curving to the side and jamming the body.

I must sound like I'm repeating myself over and over. The point is, it works.

Having a ball go to your backhand side and suddenly curve into your forehand side is devastating, and causes late contact and a lot of netted or long balls. Same for having it suddenly move into the backhand side. You keep them honest (and a change up) by hitting normal shots, or be throwing in moderately high topspin balls.

I've got the leg speed, too. I need an avatar like everyone else that says "Hewitt without the fistpump". Plus I've got more spin than he does. :P

Thanatos
06-13-2005, 06:24 PM
meat what level are you a good 5.0 would destroy you.

What are you talking about? A good 5.0 would beat you and me. A good 7.0 would destroy a 5.0, but that's not the point. The point this that Meat is able to use spin and slices to beat opponent's his level and take them out of their comfort zone. We can all implement that type of variety in our games.

rocky b
06-14-2005, 03:32 AM
What are you talking about? A good 5.0 would beat you and me. A good 7.0 would destroy a 5.0, but that's not the point. The point this that Meat is able to use spin and slices to beat opponent's his level and take them out of their comfort zone. We can all implement that type of variety in our games.


What's your point?

tennis-n-sc
06-14-2005, 04:59 AM
Meat, will you be moving up the 16's anytime soon?

joe sch
06-14-2005, 06:20 AM
Meat, you have really been blowing your horn. Are you setting yourself up for some beatings ? Maybe your just looking for some free lessons ;)

Meat
06-14-2005, 12:42 PM
Setting up for beatings or free lessons? :D Probably not.

Yes, I do sound arrogant. It's taken me six years to perfect the placement and spin, and apply it effectively at all stages and places in my game. I'm still working on the serve. When I'm able to take other players and be able to effectively destroy what they want to do, I think that's amazing. I'm at the top of my game then.

I've gone through extensive conditioning, worked my legs and everything to near perfect, and have worked hard to make sure I can succeed without the power that everyone else seems to have.

Setting up for beatings? I'm just aiming to get better. I don't believe lessons are completely necessary to do so.



I'm editing this because despite all the time and effort I've put into my game, I still can't spell "worked" right. Unless I pass of "wroked" as british or foreign spelling. :D

TwistServe
06-14-2005, 12:56 PM
Setting up for beatings or free lessons? :D Probably not.

Yes, I do sound arrogant. It's taken me six years to perfect the placement and spin, and apply it effectively at all stages and places in my game. I'm still working on the serve. When I'm able to take other players and be able to effectively destroy what they want to do, I think that's amazing. I'm at the top of my game then.

I've gone through extensive conditioning, worked my legs and everything to near perfect, and have worked hard to make sure I can succeed without the power that everyone else seems to have.

Setting up for beatings? I'm just aiming to get better. I don't believe lessons are completely necessary to do so.



I'm editing this because despite all the time and effort I've put into my game, I still can't spell "worked" right. Unless I pass of "wroked" as british or foreign spelling. :D

The real question is.. You said you know KANA and her parents... Exactly how fast can you beat Kana and will the score be 6-0, 6-0.. If you're saying a strong 5.0 has problems with you, than you should be able to take out a 4.5 Female pretty damn fast. But if you say you have problems with her game, then you're overating your spin/placement/weakness exploitation game.

krnboijunsung
06-14-2005, 01:10 PM
Yes indeedily...

krnboijunsung
06-14-2005, 01:12 PM
Or we could just ask kana and see if she thinks he's as great as he says he is.

TwistServe
06-14-2005, 01:17 PM
I think meat wont comment because he doesn't want to offend her.. and kana will just exaggerate to not make herself look bad. You never want to see the student beating the teacher.. at least not at the 4.5 level.

If meat is as good as he says he'll probably beat me too, thought I've beaten a few 5.0s :)

Meat
06-14-2005, 01:23 PM
The real question is.. You said you know KANA and her parents... Exactly how fast can you beat Kana and will the score be 6-0, 6-0.. If you're saying a strong 5.0 has problems with you, than you should be able to take out a 4.5 Female pretty damn fast. But if you say you have problems with her game, then you're overating your spin/placement/weakness exploitation game.

My game isn't built around beating people fast, OR defeating them 6-0. The whole point is drawing every point out and forcing them to destroy themselves.

I never said a strong 5.0 has problems with me, I've only played one once. The thing is, my game still works and causes problems for anybody.

If you think females are that much worse, Kana's a possible exception. The learning curve is equal, the only difference is in the natural anatomy of the player. So the muscle mass and power generated in the shots naturally gives males an advantage.

Yes, I can beat her. But generally, she's just as good or better than most 4.5 men because of how she plays. She's aggressive, and hits the ball cleanly and easily. She also rushes the net a lot, which is slightly harder for me because errors are a lot easier to come by at the baseline. Rushing the net makes it harder for me to force errors in any player. If I can hit my shots right on, I can aim a short slice dipper that curves into her body. This usually creates a defensive shot or error in any player, Kana is not an exception. I finish the point from there. The problem is that doing that shot or hitting dippers repeatedly is always hard.

That's where I have my problems. A lot of a female's natural inadvantages in power, etc. disappear at net, because of the extremely compact stroke. It's mostly finesse and reaction time, which can be pretty much equal in both genders. The serve is another area dominated by males, but Kana is still 6' and it's still hard to work with serves at above 90 mph.

I'll wait for her to post. But does that help with your question?



I'll edit this. Won't comment? Do I have to stalk every thread because I want to make sure you're able to get my point immediately? I have a life, AND I have finals this week. Don't be so damn arrogant yourself.

And what the hell is wrong with you and Kana? You carry this stupid grudge across the entire forum, even in the time I've been just looking around. I really, really don't want to start a fight here, I want to remain neutral. But your age difference doesn't show that much in your posts. Generally, most people find almost all the content in her posts useful. If she's wrong, that's great. You SHOULD point it out, you probably have. But then just say it gracefully and leave. Doing so would display your maturity a lot more.

Thank you.

TwistServe
06-14-2005, 01:39 PM
I'll wait for her to post. But does that help with your question?



I'll edit this. Won't comment? Do I have to stalk every thread because I want to make sure you're able to get my point immediately? I have a life, AND I have finals this week. Don't be so damn arrogant yourself.

And what the hell is wrong with you and Kana? You carry this stupid grudge across the entire forum, even in the time I've been just looking around. I really, really don't want to start a fight here, I want to remain neutral. But your age difference doesn't show that much in your posts. Generally, most people find almost all the content in her posts useful. If she's wrong, that's great. You SHOULD point it out, you probably have. But then just say it gracefully and leave. Doing so would display your maturity a lot more.

Thank you.

I don't think what I said was offensive at all. It's a fair question since you two know each other. As for being arrogant.. I'm the most arrogant and conceeded person I know. When I was still going to college, I ****ed lots of people off because of my condescending behavior. Tennis is no different. Sometimes I will be a ***** on the court when I want to embarrass my opponent. However, with that said, my question was fair and did not slander or attack anyone. I asked if you were able to beat kana. If you can't then you can't.

As for the grudge.. I have no personal grudges with anyone. I believe lot of the stuff she says are half right half wrong. I correct them and if she wants to go into a post war trying to prove shes right.. I'll catch her on inconsistencies and whatever.. and I'll debate it till the post dies. There are no personal grudges.

Meat
06-14-2005, 01:44 PM
I'm sorry, most of the hostility was aimed at wanting me to post soon to immediately after you do. This is a forum, it's not meant to be that way anyway. While I do just leave the computer on TW sometimes, I'm not always here.

I can beat Kana. If you want exact amounts, it's about 60%-40% win loss ratio in my favor. However, simply because of the style of her game, it's harder to beat her than most people. Baseliners are generally easiest, no matter how much pace they have. Passing shots or making a person uncomfortable at net is much harder to do. I AM working on developing a higher lob, I am beginning to run into taller players. Kana's one of them.

As for arrogant, it's at least fine that you admit it. It certainly doesn't fix the problem, but hey, I come off as arrogant, too. That's fine. So I'm not holding any big grudges there.

I DO think that your post was slandering and attacking Kana, most of your posts tend to do so. But I'm not planning on getting involved much.

TwistServe
06-14-2005, 01:50 PM
I'm sorry, most of the hostility was aimed at wanting me to post soon to immediately after you do. This is a forum, it's not meant to be that way anyway. While I do just leave the computer on TW sometimes, I'm not always here.


This time your response was much faster.. Very nicely done.. Be sure to be just as fast next time around :)

Meat
06-14-2005, 01:54 PM
I was already watching this thread. :D

LOL, I've gotten optimal TwistServe-reaction-time.
I'll make sure to remember to constantly click your
name and find out whenever you're replying the next time
around.

I've been practicing. Just kidding.

I'm going back to cramming.

TwistServe
06-14-2005, 05:39 PM
If you want exact amounts, it's about 60%-40% win loss ratio in my favor.

60/40 is pretty good for her since she's had 3 years of tennis experience and you've had 6 years. But I think 60/40 is a rather convinent number. It still puts you ahead but doesn't embarass her ether. EVERYONE WINS hehe...

Of course we'll never know.

RiosTheGenius
06-14-2005, 06:02 PM
I can't stand people like meat talking about their game and telling people what they should be doing out there. it is pathetic. one of the worst threads ever, perhaps even worse than Twistserve's threads :)

Phil Daddario
06-14-2005, 06:09 PM
But you have to admit, that if he does all he says he does, that that takes an extreme amount of skill and "touch".

I AM slightly perturbed about posting just to show off his game. But the tactics and precision he has to achieve goes to extreme levels. It's refreshing for me because it sounds so much like the "old" game.

TwistServe- Can you NOT post without insulting Kana? :P Some of your advice is fine and works for people, but so was more of Kana's. I don't remember seeing her on here for the past few days either, when I was just lurking as a guest.

RiosTheGenius
06-14-2005, 06:14 PM
oh I never questioned the knowledge of the man, but it is a little egocentric to post a thread about how you trash everyone you play.

diredesire
06-14-2005, 06:26 PM
I don't think what I said was offensive at all. It's a fair question since you two know each other. As for being arrogant.. I'm the most arrogant and conceeded person I know. When I was still going to college, I ****ed lots of people off because of my condescending behavior. Tennis is no different. Sometimes I will be a ***** on the court when I want to embarrass my opponent. However, with that said, my question was fair and did not slander or attack anyone. I asked if you were able to beat kana. If you can't then you can't.

As for the grudge.. I have no personal grudges with anyone. I believe lot of the stuff she says are half right half wrong. I correct them and if she wants to go into a post war trying to prove shes right.. I'll catch her on inconsistencies and whatever.. and I'll debate it till the post dies. There are no personal grudges.

FOOT FAULT!
Conceited*

(just to add to a dumb thread)

TwistServe
06-14-2005, 07:01 PM
FOOT FAULT!
Conceited*

(just to add to a dumb thread)

Ya got me! Good thing I dont make money writing novels and books.

Phil
06-14-2005, 07:31 PM
You are a very smart and talented tennis player to be able to handle all types of players. My hat is off to you.

Let me go one step farther than BB, by calling bullshia-t. Through all of this braggadocio my B.S. Radar is starting to take some hits. Hey, it sounds like you have the "tools" to go pro-why not do it?

Meat
06-14-2005, 07:45 PM
I've got the spin, I've got the placement. I don't have the pace, and especially not the height to produce the serves at the pro level. I'm 5'4". That's one of the reasons I always hit spin serves, I have to. However, at the pro level, it's apparent that everyones going to have serves better than me. It's also apparent I'm weak to kick serves, simply because of the high bounce. If they can work the point from the start on the serve, I'm not exactly going to have a good chance of winning it, am I?

I deal huge amounts of spin on both wings. But I'm prone to injury, and wouldn't be able to stay on the pro tour with that at all. I was in India completely emaciated and starved until I was five. That doesn't exactly leave temporary weaknesses in the body, they're permanent.

The main reason I went through all the conditioning was to be able to play tennis at the 4.5-5.0 level without killing myself. That's what the muscles do for me, they just avoid injury.

Also, most of my shots depend on irregular or extremely small bounces. Hit on the rise and you take almost all of that away.

Too many weaknesses, huh? Exactly. I have to cover them up.

I'm arrogant because I've been able to take this kind of game and succeed with it. You try, eh? I'm the only person I've heard of, baby. I'm number one.

That might be why Kana doesn't like me that much, and I generally **** people off. That's fine. The point is, it takes skill. I can't use power, period. My body and natural mindset simply can't do it.

What I do is simply the only way I can "push" and still succeed at higher levels. Past the touch and spin, I have nothing else. Too many limits.

Phil
06-14-2005, 07:57 PM
Uhhh...right. Whatever you say. This is the Internet. I'm a 7.2 player and I beat Roger Federer with one arm taped to my head. Talk is cheap.

Bungalo Bill
06-14-2005, 08:02 PM
Let me go one step farther than BB, by calling bullshia-t. Through all of this braggadocio my B.S. Radar is starting to take some hits. Hey, it sounds like you have the "tools" to go pro-why not do it?


LOL, thats pretty funny.

Meat
06-14-2005, 08:09 PM
Uhhh...right. Whatever you say. This is the Internet. I'm a 7.2 player and I beat Roger Federer with one arm taped to my head. Talk is cheap.

Lying about limits? Not many people do that, huh. :P

Regardless, it's simply my game. I don't need other people's messages to confirm it. If I end up losing, that's my problem.

And yeah, I heard about that match beating Federer. You were supposedly only playing with your non-dominant arm, and still set the record for aces, right?

Superior_Forehand
06-14-2005, 08:41 PM
I've got the spin, I've got the placement. I don't have the pace, and especially not the height to produce the serves at the pro level. I'm 5'4".

I'm arrogant because I've been able to take this kind of game and succeed with it. You try, eh? I'm the only person I've heard of, baby. I'm number one.


SHORT MAN SYNDROME!! :)

tennisplayer
06-14-2005, 09:47 PM
Meat and TwistServe, let me know if you guys ever land up in San Jose! I've got to play you guys, my curiosity is killing me! This is not a death-match challenge, but if you beat me I'll buy you guys as much beer as you want - well, ice cream for Meat and beer for TwistServe. :-)

diredesire
06-14-2005, 11:07 PM
SHORT MAN SYNDROME!! :)

lol, qft, qft.

Kobble
06-15-2005, 12:53 AM
I'm arrogant because I've been able to take this kind of game and succeed with it. You try, eh? I'm the only person I've heard of, baby. I'm number one.
Have you ever heard of Olivier Rochus? Unless you are in the top 30 or so, he is the king of the short people.

Grimjack
06-15-2005, 05:05 AM
Why so much hostility toward this kid? All he said was that he plays at a pretty solid 4.5 level, and here's how he does it. Why is this so hard to believe? There IS a boastful tone about it, and if that's all you focus on, perhaps it's not so hard to end up with your panties in a twist. But it's not like he claimed to be a budding futures champ -- just a decent HS player who has overcome some physical limitations.

Phil
06-15-2005, 09:08 AM
Why so much hostility toward this kid? All he said was that he plays at a pretty solid 4.5 level, and here's how he does it. Why is this so hard to believe? There IS a boastful tone about it, and if that's all you focus on, perhaps it's not so hard to end up with your panties in a twist. But it's not like he claimed to be a budding futures champ -- just a decent HS player who has overcome some physical limitations.

There's boasting and there's idle boasting. Why WOULDN'T you (or someone) question a person who comes out of nowhere and posts a long-ish, unsolicited tribute to their own game and how they can beat whoever they come in contact with? That's not hostility. It's basic skepticism in the face of impossible-to-prove, outlandish claims. Kinda like those beginner players who claim that they can hit a kick serve over someone's head...eh?

Generally, good players-like the type that this person claims to be-don't feel a need to scream out that they are...good players. I say he's a pusher who FANTASIZES about playing the way he describes. If, in fact he IS at the level he claims (emphasis on CLAIMS), then more power to him-what exactly, then, is the point of boasting about it here? That kind of garbage will only raise questions. Most 4.5 players, and there are plenty of them (of the legitimate variety) on this Board-don't have the need to do so. The Internet can make 5.0's out of even the novice hackers.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 09:31 AM
There's boasting and there's idle boasting. Why WOULDN'T you (or someone) question a person who comes out of nowhere and posts a long-ish, unsolicited tribute to their own game and how they can beat whoever they come in contact with? That's not hostility. It's basic skepticism in the face of impossible-to-prove, outlandish claims. Kinda like those beginner players who claim that they can hit a kick serve over someone's head...eh?

Generally, good players-like the type that this person claims to be-don't feel a need to scream out that they are...good players. I say he's a pusher who FANTASIZES about playing the way he describes. If, in fact he IS at the level he claims (emphasis on CLAIMS), then more power to him-what exactly, then, is the point of boasting about it here? That kind of garbage will only raise questions. Most 4.5 players, and there are plenty of them (of the legitimate variety) on this Board-don't have the need to do so. The Internet can make 5.0's out of even the novice hackers.

One thing is for sure.. 4.5s are a dime in a dozen... Especially in california.. You look at the USTA tournaments.. The Opens bracket fills up sometimes over 50+ players.. The 4.5s have around 30-40.. And 3.5s are sadly 10-15 players.. So if you aren't 4.5 you arent playing tennis.

Back on topic.. Meat sounds like a pusher to me if he doesn't have power. Also he said kana's game is difficult for him.. Most pushers have difficulty playing net rushers because frankly pushers don't have the powerful strokes to pass a person at the net.. But hey nothign wrong with pushing.. Maybe defensive counter puncher is a better word..

dmvprof
06-15-2005, 10:11 AM
Hey Meat,

So are you winning tournaments? If not, why not?

If so, which ones?

Meat
06-15-2005, 12:24 PM
I don't join too many tournaments. I play in a league with all the surrounding clubs, most of the time. The tournaments I join are club ones -while I have a USTA membership, I don't go to officially sanctioned things a lot.

I can give you the names of the clubs if you want.

TwistServe- Whoever said it's hard to pass people at net? Given any open court, it's possible. However, it's hard to pass anyone who has a good approach shot. Kana approaches well. Also, I can always lob -that's never a problem. You don't NEED power to pass a person at net.

I WAS a pusher. I changed my game to add a little more pace to moderate, and put plenty of spin on the ball in all directions to keep the variation and force errors.

DEFENSIVE counter puncher? I'm OFFENSIVE. Also, on a side note, do you always call everyone who doesn't hit with pace a pusher? That's the stuff that comes out of 3.0 players' mouths.

And Phil, yes. This is the Internet. There are many false claims, and true claims mixed in. I'm not asking you to believe me, I know for myself what I do. That's fine.

As for Rochus, he has explosive groundies, etc. He plays completely different than me. I do admire what he's been able to do with his height at the pro level.

Bungalo Bill
06-15-2005, 01:04 PM
I don't join too many tournaments. I play in a league with all the surrounding clubs, most of the time. The tournaments I join are club ones -while I have a USTA membership, I don't go to officially sanctioned things a lot.

I can give you the names of the clubs if you want.

TwistServe- Whoever said it's hard to pass people at net? Given any open court, it's possible. However, it's hard to pass anyone who has a good approach shot. Kana approaches well. Also, I can always lob -that's never a problem. You don't NEED power to pass a person at net.

I WAS a pusher. I changed my game to add a little more pace to moderate, and put plenty of spin on the ball in all directions to keep the variation and force errors.

DEFENSIVE counter puncher? I'm OFFENSIVE. Also, on a side note, do you always call everyone who doesn't hit with pace a pusher? That's the stuff that comes out of 3.0 players' mouths.

And Phil, yes. This is the Internet. There are many false claims, and true claims mixed in. I'm not asking you to believe me, I know for myself what I do. That's fine.

As for Rochus, he has explosive groundies, etc. He plays completely different than me. I do admire what he's been able to do with his height at the pro level.

Meat,

I wouldn't place any worth on anything Phil says. He is our resident basher always picking apart what you say (which is so limited on this medium) and turns it around to try and get under your skin.

If he can't find any dirt on you, he will focus on your grammar or your spelling. If nothing there, he will insult you personally.

Have you ever read good solid tennis advice from him? Probably not. Well he can't, he doesnt know how to. He doesnt know how to play tennis and gets insulted when someone comes online and "brags" they can. So just brush him off.

Bottom-line is people do exxagerate a bit on here (inlcuding Phil!) but almost all the people are honest and are pretty close in doing what they say.

If you did a search on Phils threads you would see an endless trail of bashing. Maybe one out of a hundred posts would have a tidbit of good information. He offers nothing and will continue to offer nothing because he is nothing. He is the real deal of a disgruntled tennis player. I am sure he has had problems in his working career and his social life. He is just bitter. He is what the internet calls a basher. A basher is always calling the kettle black and never offers anything of value. He along with a couple others are our resident TW bashers. You just have to get used to it.

The stuff you read above is who Phil. Always trying to bring someone down as he is the one suppose to do it. But he wont hesitate calling you names if you try and do it.

So just put up with him and let the little baby have his way before he goes home. LOL

You can bet he is going to reply to this because he cant resist...he is a basher...just wait and see....lol

Keep playing your tennis, like I said, you are playing the game with smarts.

dmvprof
06-15-2005, 01:58 PM
My point is if you can't find competition there, you should keep going up. Otherwise, you're a sandbagger.

How old are you?

newshound
06-15-2005, 04:54 PM
Well, maybe you'll share your secrets with us. Imparting that nasty sidespin that curves in or away has always been tricky for me. Can you describe your stroke. Do you follow thru over your shoulder, or across your body?

Kathy
06-15-2005, 05:25 PM
Meat, very interesting. Thanks. You remind me of a kid I coached once. He was always somewhat a mystery to me. Since I didn't understand his game and why it worked such magic, I left it alone. (Sometimes I think he taught me more than I taught him.) But once he shocked me by coming off the court to change socks so he could talk to me and asked me what to do.

First, that was cheating, and second I couldn't believe he was in that state. His confidence was shattered. I think the problem was that he was playing a first-rate serve-and-volleyer from his home town, an opponent who had played him often over many years and knew what to expect from him. This guy seemed determined and capable of keeping his focus and not letting my guy's game get him ticked off = distracted.

I'm ambivalent. I don't think it's natural or healthy to enjoy the unhappiness of others. But, on the other hand, you're just exploiting the same thing in them -- ego. That's part of the game. So long as you're decent and respectful, nobody has anything to complain about. I see nothing but modesty in your posts. In the end, no matter what anybody thinks, you described ingenious strategy and tactics that all players can benefit from studying.

Meat
06-15-2005, 06:01 PM
dmvprof -I play in the club league and some other things. The people match me up accordingly with whoever else is good enough. I stay in the 4.5 right now because there are a couple people I have extremely interesting matches with. In other words, at times they're able to adapt to the constant changes in pace and rhythm and don't want to break their racquet every game.

So I am not "sandbagging", or slowing other people down right now. For the most part, not doing official leagues and tournaments sometimes allows people to select the players they want to play.


Newshound - Sidespin is achieved, obviously, by coming around or under the ball and making it spin left or right. Essentially brushing to the side at contact. In a normal slice, you push out for the underspin, right? Just try in that motion to be coming around or just brushing across at contact. It'll come naturally. DON'T use a chopping motion to achieve the sidespin.

Kathy - Thanks. Yes, I do have more problems with S&Vers than most players, because they take away the bounce (one of the biggest parts of my game). I have been able to adapt by being able to hit topspin "dippers" or mixing up the spins on short slices (they're low and are coming down over the net, so they're extremely hard to take out of the air). So I can achieve the bounce I want when I'm able to set up.

But that's hard with an S&Ver with a good approach (all of them, pretty much) since the whole point of an approach is to make it hard for the opponent to set-up. They want a weak ball. Which is way I've got my lobs down, and sometimes just run up and get to the net first. Yes, I am only 5'4", and have the "Short Man Syndrome" as someone else said, but running in is sometimes an effective way to surprise people.

I have, occasionally, also approached the net when they're already there. If I can pull the low dippers/spin off, often it's a defensive return. On these I move up to midcourt on, and then right up to the net in case I still get a lucky ball back.

On points where they're not serving, or if you can when, I also try keeping them at the baseline with deep replies. If I can work with the serve, I usually throw a moonball over they're backhand side. If the serve is hard for me to get, I still aim to get the ball high and deep over the backhand side. You can mix whatever else in accordingly.

But because so many of the shots I use against them are lower percentage than others, S&V players are HARD. I have to put the ball exactly where I want it to be, and make sure even the late "defensive" lobs carry over deep. If they're able to smash it back, I certainly can't work the "magic" with the ball any longer.

Luckily, they're rare. :D I was shattered like that similarly the first time I played Kana. I stubbornly tried to pass her at the net, and began using shots I had hardly or never practiced with when attempting dippers and sometimes sending the ball at her body. That happens when one of the foundations of my style is simply consistency.

It's been about a year since then, I've tried to improve. It's paid off as I'm able to edge out the majority of wins against her. I'm slipping again though, she's just getting better with the serve and I'm running out of tactics to use.

Thanks. While you've said you've seen "modesty" in my points, I'd actually agree that I'm sort of arrogant. I don't think I'm going too much farther up, although I'm trying the 5.0 league and maybe a tournament this summer. I'm just happy that strategy and tactics alone have taken me this far.

Phil
06-15-2005, 06:08 PM
Bill, these days, what you have to say doesn't have much credibility. YOU calling someone a "basher"? YOU describing someone else as "frustrated"? Below, let me point out your MANY hypocrisies-and this is all in a single post.

Bottom-line is people do exxagerate a bit on here (inlcuding Phil!) but almost all the people are honest and are pretty close in doing what they say.
No, Bill, people tend to exagerate A LOT here, but it's the same people over and over, and they know who they are. But find something, ANYTHING, ANYWHERE where I have done so. I challenge you. Otherwise, it's even out of character for YOU to fabricate lies and fantasies like this.

If you did a search on Phils threads you would see an endless trail of bashing. Maybe one out of a hundred posts would have a tidbit of good information. He offers nothing and will continue to offer nothing because he is nothing. He is the real deal of a disgruntled tennis player. I am sure he has had problems in his working career and his social life. He is just bitter. He is what the internet calls a basher. A basher is always calling the kettle black and never offers anything of value. He along with a couple others are our resident TW bashers. You just have to get used to it.
Now this is a laugh. Bill, the frustrated, NON TENNIS PLAYING, nay...NON TEACHING "Internet Coach", Internet BULLY (short memory, people, if you don't recall a post a few days ago when "Bill" threatened to "EMBARRASS" and "BURY" another poster-over a very TRIVIAL matter) and self-proclaimed "policeman" telling ME that I'm a basher and a frustrated, failed career person. I'm happy and secure enough that I'll never take up residence, as you have, as a chatboard "policeman" for lack of any real, outside world satisfying experiences. YOU obviously have nowhere to go in this world, but, needing a forum of some sort for your blowhard pronoucements, set up shop on the Internet, which is a modern-day Haven for Frauds like yourself, where no qualifications are necessary. Your tone and short, near-psychotic temper when questioned on ANYTHING tells me, without doing any phony-a** life-analysis-because it's right there in the OPEN-that you have some serious mental issues. People like you should be heavily medicated and supervised before they're allowed to interact with the public, and they usually ARE. As I've said before, you are one ate-up mofo.
So just put up with him and let the little baby have his way before he goes home. LOL
Baby? This from the guy who, when any talk focuses on WRIST MOVEMENT, absolutely goes psycho-ballistic, crying and sprewing empty threats...again, hypocrisy to the nth degree from you.

You can bet he is going to reply to this because he cant resist...he is a basher...just wait and see....lol
You can bet I will...yeah, it's always fun to bash an idiot, and tell the emporer that he's NEVER had any clothes to begin with. It's not a pretty sight to see this guy unhinged. But it is fun. Like playing tennis against a racquet thrower. Hey Bill, "LOL", "LOL", "LOL". For someone who LACKS one iota of a sense of humor, you sure "Laugh" a lot. So do the inamates of an asylum.

What are you gonna do, BILL? Threaten me. Stalk me? Fact is, you really aren't capable of embarrassing anyone-you just don't have enough on them, while they have plenty on you. It's a TENNIS board, that's all-there are very few "absolutes" in the game, as the pros have demonstrated, but you're still on your little dictator trip, all the same...Recently, and not-so-recently you've been HANDED YOUR HEAD...ON A PLATTER by Dedans and Datacipher (and some others, too). Why is it that the most articulate and intelligent posters, somehow have PEGGED you as an insufferable blowhard? Coincidence? I think not.

You're the ultimate Internet creepy crawley, hanging around on the fringes, trying to FORCE people to accept you as an "expert". I say AGAIN, an "Internet Coach" who neither PLAYS nor actually TEACHES (i.e. on a real, not virtual court)...a mediocrity. Keep policing, Officer Bill-yep, keep up the "good work", and HEY! Don't forget to mention that KINETIC CHAIN while you're at it...

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 07:09 PM
Bill, these days, what you have to say doesn't have much credibility. YOU calling someone a "basher"? YOU describing someone else as "frustrated"? Below, let me point out your MANY hypocrisies-and this is all in a single post.


No, Bill, people tend to exagerate A LOT here, but it's the same people over and over, and they know who they are. But find something, ANYTHING, ANYWHERE where I have done so. I challenge you. Otherwise, it's even out of character for YOU to fabricate lies and fantasies like this.


Now this is a laugh. Bill, the frustrated, NON TENNIS PLAYING, nay...NON TEACHING "Internet Coach", Internet BULLY (short memory, people, if you don't recall a post a few days ago when "Bill" threatened to "EMBARRASS" and "BURY" another poster-over a very TRIVIAL matter) and self-proclaimed "policeman" telling ME that I'm a basher and a frustrated, failed career person. I'm happy and secure enough that I'll never take up residence, as you have, as a chatboard "policeman" for lack of any real, outside world satisfying experiences. YOU obviously have nowhere to go in this world, but, needing a forum of some sort for your blowhard pronoucements, set up shop on the Internet, which is a modern-day Haven for Frauds like yourself, where no qualifications are necessary. Your tone and short, near-psychotic temper when questioned on ANYTHING tells me, without doing any phony-a** life-analysis-because it's right there in the OPEN-that you have some serious mental issues. People like you should be heavily medicated and supervised before they're allowed to interact with the public, and they usually ARE. As I've said before, you are one ate-up mofo.

Baby? This from the guy who, when any talk focuses on WRIST MOVEMENT, absolutely goes psycho-ballistic, crying and sprewing empty threats...again, hypocrisy to the nth degree from you.


You can bet I will...yeah, it's always fun to bash an idiot, and tell the emporer that he's NEVER had any clothes to begin with. It's not a pretty sight to see this guy unhinged. But it is fun. Like playing tennis against a racquet thrower. Hey Bill, "LOL", "LOL", "LOL". For someone who LACKS one iota of a sense of humor, you sure "Laugh" a lot. So do the inamates of an asylum.

What are you gonna do, BILL? Threaten me. Stalk me? Fact is, you really aren't capable of embarrassing anyone-you just don't have enough on them, while they have plenty on you. It's a TENNIS board, that's all-there are very few "absolutes" in the game, as the pros have demonstrated, but you're still on your little dictator trip, all the same...Recently, and not-so-recently you've been HANDED YOUR HEAD...ON A PLATTER by Dedans and Datacipher (and some others, too). Why is it that the most articulate and intelligent posters, somehow have PEGGED you as an insufferable blowhard? Coincidence? I think not.

You're the ultimate Internet creepy crawley, hanging around on the fringes, trying to FORCE people to accept you as an "expert". I say AGAIN, an "Internet Coach" who neither PLAYS nor actually TEACHES (i.e. on a real, not virtual court)...a mediocrity. Keep policing, Officer Bill-yep, keep up the "good work", and HEY! Don't forget to mention that KINETIC CHAIN while you're at it...

Dude keep this thread clean of essays.. only quick short remarks or a few paragraphs 5-6 sentences long max.. You simply over did it and I cant read this thread anymore.

Meat
06-15-2005, 07:22 PM
I don't see a problem with long posts. That way, you get everything out at once, and don't bother having thirty individual posts to say everything you want to.

And it's their personal war. You don't have to read it. Would you rather have them repeat themselves with "You're wrong!" and "No, you're wrong!" It sounds like earlier in the thread when you simply repeated two sentences and Kana was explaining the whole thing every time because you weren't getting it.

When they're having a flame-war, I doubt that the first thing on their mind is "Can TwistServe read this?"

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 07:40 PM
I don't see a problem with long posts. That way, you get everything out at once, and don't bother having thirty individual posts to say everything you want to.

And it's their personal war. You don't have to read it. Would you rather have them repeat themselves with "You're wrong!" and "No, you're wrong!" It sounds like earlier in the thread when you simply repeated two sentences and Kana was explaining the whole thing every time because you weren't getting it.

When they're having a flame-war, I doubt that the first thing on their mind is "Can TwistServe read this?"

Thing is meat, you have to understand that longer posts are likely unread by even the target recipient... People don't like reading essays.. Get to the point... Rule #1 of writing an essay for a debate. State your thesis, then back it up.. The more you write the more distracted and disillusioned your original thesis becomes.

Meat
06-15-2005, 08:07 PM
If you haven't noticed, almost all of Phil and BB's general posts are considered "long" by normal standards.

I'd rather read a post that's long and covered everything than a short, simple one that simply doesn't do anything rather than "post". It's useless.

The more you write, the more you support.

Phil
06-15-2005, 08:17 PM
Dude keep this thread clean of essays.. only quick short remarks or a few paragraphs 5-6 sentences long max.. You simply over did it and I cant read this thread anymore.

My posts are usually not so long, but hey, thanks for that tip, Mr. English Composition Professor. Maybe there's some utility in making longer posts-as a way to discourage mental midgets like youreself from attempting to read them...

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 08:26 PM
midgets...

Actually the only literal midget here is Meat.. no offense intended :)

Phil
06-15-2005, 08:26 PM
I don't see a problem with long posts. That way, you get everything out at once, and don't bother having thirty individual posts to say everything you want to.

And it's their personal war. You don't have to read it. Would you rather have them repeat themselves with "You're wrong!" and "No, you're wrong!" It sounds like earlier in the thread when you simply repeated two sentences and Kana was explaining the whole thing every time because you weren't getting it.

When they're having a flame-war, I doubt that the first thing on their mind is "Can TwistServe read this?"

You got that right, Meat! There is no parallel world, in which we actually CARE what Twisthead thinks.

dmvprof
06-16-2005, 06:41 AM
dmvprof -I play in the club league and some other things. The people match me up accordingly with whoever else is good enough. I stay in the 4.5 right now because there are a couple people I have extremely interesting matches with. In other words, at times they're able to adapt to the constant changes in pace and rhythm and don't want to break their racquet every game.

So I am not "sandbagging", or slowing other people down right now. For the most part, not doing official leagues and tournaments sometimes allows people to select the players they want to play.

Sandbagging is when you play below your level for the sake of winning a lot. According to your first post, that's what you're doing. I mean it's not me saying this, it's you. But I've got to tell you, doing this will win you no friends.

Fun, right? Destroy their confidence in their game.

Yea, that's what tennis is all about. Crushing people that aren't as good as you so they don't even want to play. That's some act you have there. Do you take candy from babies too?

You know, all smacktalk aside, I find a lot of what you say hard to believe. You talk as if changing pace and rythm is something new you discovered. But even giving you the benefit of the doubt, you still come out looking bad based on your comments.

Noone likes an arrogant winner.

Superior_Forehand
06-16-2005, 10:16 AM
Actually the only literal midget here is Meat.. no offense intended :)

hahahahahah

GuyClinch
06-16-2005, 01:20 PM
If your "destroying" people you should be playing someone better.

Pete

Meat
06-16-2005, 01:26 PM
I'm not talking about destroying as in beating 6-0 every time, I'm talking about taking their weaknesses, or even their strengths, and turning it into trash by screwing up their contact and game.

Also, I AM moving up. I'm getting involved in some 5.0 matches this summer, to see how things progress. I can't exactly just quit my 4.5 league right now.

Superior_Forehand
06-16-2005, 04:56 PM
This war is pathetic