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NadalAgassi
01-18-2011, 07:54 AM
There was some discussion in the Nadal match thread last night, especialy after the match, if Marcos Daniel was right to even play the Australian Open. He was clearly too injured to perform even at his own usual mediocre (for pro tour standards given his record) level. Yet he showed up anyway and collected significant prize money for a 1st round defeat. Was this right of him. Should he have withdrawn and allowed a healthy player to enter the draw.

My perspective would be someone like him really benefits from the money and that is why he did not withdraw.

jdubbs
01-18-2011, 07:58 AM
People will always act in their own self interest.

Joe Pike
01-18-2011, 07:58 AM
There was some discussion in the Nadal match thread last night, especialy after the match, if Marcos Daniel was right to even play the Australian Open. He was clearly too injured to perform even at his own usual mediocre (for pro tour standards given his record) level. Yet he showed up anyway and collected significant prize money for a 1st round defeat. Was this right of him. Should he have withdrawn and allowed a healthy player to enter the draw.

My perspective would be someone like him really benefits from the money and that is why he did not withdraw.


Sometimes players even win slams although they have to play injured (eg. Graf at USO 95 & 96, Wimbledon 93).

NadalAgassi
01-18-2011, 07:58 AM
Some people made the point that it was unfair to fans and to the player who could have taken their place who was healthy enough to perform.

aphex
01-18-2011, 07:59 AM
There was some discussion in the Nadal match thread last night, especialy after the match, if Marcos Daniel was right to even play the Australian Open. He was clearly too injured to perform even at his own usual mediocre (for pro tour standards given his record) level. Yet he showed up anyway and collected significant prize money for a 1st round defeat. Was this right of him. Should he have withdrawn and allowed a healthy player to enter the draw.

My perspective would be someone like him really benefits from the money and that is why he did not withdraw.

Kind of like Ralph in last year's quarter, right?

sureshs
01-18-2011, 07:59 AM
Remember how Rafa and Fed played thru "injuries"?

FloridaAG
01-18-2011, 08:00 AM
Considering Rafa was going to crush whoever he faced, not a hard decision to rationalize. Why should someone else get paid to get their butt kicked when this guy could whether injured or not

nadalbestclass
01-18-2011, 08:02 AM
Sometimes players even win slams although they have to play injured (eg. Graf at USO 95 & 96, Wimbledon 93).

Yes, but come on deep inside this guy had to have known, he wasn't going to past Rafa. Forget winning anything.


@ OP Some people mentioned that he earned it, so why should he back out? Which is really true actually. Plus, as someone said, he acted in self interest. 20k is a lotta money, for just showing up.

sureshs
01-18-2011, 08:03 AM
People will always act in their own self interest.

Not always. There are still great people who think about the common good.

nadalbestclass
01-18-2011, 08:03 AM
Kind of like Ralph in last year's quarter, right?

Um "Ralph" at least provided a match and played well. How many points did this guy win on his own merit? TWO!

aphex
01-18-2011, 08:04 AM
Um "Ralph" at least provided a match and played well. How many points did this guy win on his own merit? TWO!

Did he retire or not, as did Mr. Daniel?

OrangePower
01-18-2011, 08:05 AM
Good question. For a journeyman, it would be hard to pass up on the money.

The other thing is, he would not have known who he was playing until the draw was released on Friday, by which time he was probably already in Australia. Before seeing the draw, he might have figured that against a lower ranked player he might have a chance even if injured.

nadalbestclass
01-18-2011, 08:06 AM
Did he retire or not, as did Mr. Daniel?

So did Beck yesterday against Murray. Many people have retired, but rarely like this. Anyway, useless arguing with you, so I'm done.

aphex
01-18-2011, 08:09 AM
So did Beck yesterday against Murray. Many people have retired, but rarely like this. Anyway, useless arguing with you, so I'm done.

I knew you had no point whatsoever...kthxbai.

Manus Domini
01-18-2011, 08:15 AM
Good question. For a journeyman, it would be hard to pass up on the money.

The other thing is, he would not have known who he was playing until the draw was released on Friday, by which time he was probably already in Australia. Before seeing the draw, he might have figured that against a lower ranked player he might have a chance even if injured.

QFT

for someone who has a hard time making the bucks or winning, this is a good amount of money. Why would he pass it up when he already paid for flight/coaching/rackets, etc? He probably needs the money, and the way he probably saw it he "earned" the right to be there in the qualies or whatever he got there with, he wasn't gonna pass up $20k he thought he earned (whether we see it as earning it or not)

Photoshop
01-18-2011, 08:16 AM
The other thing is, he would not have known who he was playing until the draw was released on Friday, by which time he was probably already in Australia. Before seeing the draw, he might have figured that against a lower ranked player he might have a chance even if injured.
I agree with this. Also you never know what could happen in a match - Nadal could've tweaked his ankle during warm-up and had to retire:-? Anything could happen and M. Daniel could've advanced to next round.

I do think that he should've finished the 2nd set at least... let Nadal serve it out. Was he just trying to avoid the inevitable double-bagel or what?

darrinbaker00
01-18-2011, 08:18 AM
I agree with this. Also you never know what could happen in a match - Nadal could've tweaked his ankle during warm-up and had to retire:-? Anything could happen and M. Daniel could've advanced to next round.

I do think that he should've finished the 2nd set at least... let Nadal serve it out. Was he just trying to avoid the inevitable double-bagel or what?

Men's matches at the majors are best-of-five, not best-of-three. Mr. Daniel was looking at a TRIPLE-bagel.

Manus Domini
01-18-2011, 08:20 AM
unless he got lucky somehow

darrinbaker00
01-18-2011, 08:21 AM
QFT

for someone who has a hard time making the bucks or winning, this is a good amount of money. Why would he pass it up when he already paid for flight/coaching/rackets, etc? He probably needs the money, and the way he probably saw it he "earned" the right to be there in the qualies or whatever he got there with, he wasn't gonna pass up $20k he thought he earned (whether we see it as earning it or not)
Not only that, but even Mr. Daniel knew that this was one and only chance to play on one of the "Big Four" courts, and he wanted to stay out there as long as possible. If I were him, I would have done the same thing.

BrooklynNY
01-18-2011, 08:22 AM
Sometimes players even win slams although they have to play injured (eg. Graf at USO 95 & 96, Wimbledon 93).

Sampras Wimbledon 2000.
You can see his lateral movement was extremely hampered.

Also, retiring was the best bet for Daniel, he was on pace to win like 13 points over 3 sets.

813wilson
01-18-2011, 08:26 AM
I think it is really easy, sitting in the luxury and comfort of the commentator's chair, to make the statements that Cahill and McEnroe made about this. Cahill makes six figures from ESPN, six figures from Adidas, and additional money speaking/appearances/etc. Ditto McEnroe by exhanging USTA for Adidas.
They even brought up that there should be a penalty or fine. Really? How about going to the tournament and asking them to "compensate" the injured player? It seems to me, in this scenario, Marcos Daniel would miss the $20 grand more than the Auzzie Open. So pay him and open the slot to the "lucky loser". But for God's sake, don't penalize the guy for trying make his living....

Manus Domini
01-18-2011, 08:48 AM
Good point, Wilson. And grant him WC spot to next slam. But make sure the guy really is super-injured, like put him on a few months hiatus.

@Darrin, we all would have. I mean, for amateurs like us we would be blessed just to be able to play these guys once. Imagine how fantastic it would be to actually play in the Slams! Definately a part of that there

dandelion_smiley
01-18-2011, 09:20 AM
It's a tough case, look at it from Daniel's perspective. He'd be called a chicken by many if he withdrew before the tournament. He did the right thing to show up imo

vandre
01-18-2011, 09:35 AM
I think it is really easy, sitting in the luxury and comfort of the commentator's chair, to make the statements that Cahill and McEnroe made about this. Cahill makes six figures from ESPN, six figures from Adidas, and additional money speaking/appearances/etc. Ditto McEnroe by exhanging USTA for Adidas.
They even brought up that there should be a penalty or fine. Really? How about going to the tournament and asking them to "compensate" the injured player? It seems to me, in this scenario, Marcos Daniel would miss the $20 grand more than the Auzzie Open. So pay him and open the slot to the "lucky loser". But for God's sake, don't penalize the guy for trying make his living....


+1. those who had success in the game often forget about how tough it can be to squeeze out a living on the low levels of the tour. that $20,000 is a big chunk of daniel's yearly earnings. anyway, didn't he earn his way into the tournament somehow either by direct entry or qualifying?

the difference here is that the atp isn't like the nba or nfl or mlb where players negotiate contracts to get paid. the players in those leagues don't stop getting checks when they get hurt so not playing isn't too much of an immediate financial concern, so they'll ride the exercise bike on the sideline or whatever because the money still keeps rolling in. inujured atp players do not get paid unless they play (except from sponsors or whatever if they're lucky enough to have them). the pro athlete in the nfl or whatever can afford to think a little more long term. the low level atp pro is trying to get paid now to survive.

i don't buy this "it makes for a bad match/ game for the spectators" at all! as if there's been a pro sports league that have never had a shortened or uncompetitive game or fight. how many fights did mike tyson have that were over in the first round? how many ufc or mma fights or boxing matches last 30 seconds or less? and if cahill and jmac don't like uncompetitive games or matches, then they'd better call the nfl and tell them not to let the panthers play the bengals or the broncos or the bills next year. despite these short fights and lopsided games, the ufc and the nfl still make boatloads of money selling ppvs and football packages to people who want to watch their fights and games. if anyone gets a right to gripe, its the folks who shelled out their hard earned moo-lah to sit courtside and watch the match in the heat, sun, cold, wind whatever, not the talking heads who got paid to sit in a nice, air-conditioned box and talk. as for the paying customer, i'd say it unfortunately goes with the territory. that and you paid for the experience of going to a slam at seeing the world #1 play nearly 2 sets in the opening round. from what i saw, nadal's level of play seemed to be pretty high. so even though you didn't get your 3 to 5 sets worth, you got something.

vandre
01-18-2011, 09:35 AM
sorry, double post.