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bigcattennis
06-14-2005, 03:22 PM
Has anyone had success with an eastern backhand grip for the slice. I know the continental is recommended but I have noticed it is easier to keep the face square at contact and prevent it from opening up causing the slice to float.

TwistServe
06-14-2005, 03:24 PM
You dont want your racquet square. You want an open racquet face while going high to low and forward.. You can get an amazing penetrating low slice with a very open racquetface assuming proper swing path.

bigcattennis
06-14-2005, 03:29 PM
If you look at all the good slices on slow motion film they have a square face at contact. It may look open but it cannot be as logic tells us the ball will go up with an open face.

Grimjack
06-14-2005, 03:59 PM
If you look at all the good slices on slow motion film they have a square face at contact. It may look open but it cannot be as logic tells us the ball will go up with an open face.

This is correct. From context, I assume TS is telling you to open the racquet face at contact. This is goofiness of the highest order. The ball must, always, obey the laws of physics, and an open face WILL, inevitably, cause the ball to deflect upward. Must be the only physicist on the planet who isn't aware of that.

That said, it often helps in achieving a sqare face at the moment of contact if you open the face quite a bit PRIOR to contact. That's just human physiology in action. A slice can be hit pretty effectively with any grip from an eastern BH to a continental. If your body allows you to strike a clean slice with a continental, that has additional advantages, since you can follow a good slice into the net and be ready to work from there w/o a change of grip. But the eastern is fine. I believe Bungalo says he prefers an eastern (or something in its direction) for his own use, but also endorses a variety of grips.

Grimjack
06-14-2005, 04:03 PM
(Note, of course, that the BH -- as with any shot -- can be very *slightly* open (or closed), depending on the height at which you strike the ball and such. But the idea that in general, you want to slice with an open face, is a myth born of bad explanation.)

bigcattennis
06-14-2005, 05:02 PM
Yes, thanks for that explanation. I think TS is under a misconception which occurrs on many strokes as you watch the pros in full speed. When you slow the film down the truth is told and the laws of phyics and proper biomechanics follow suit. I did find today I was able to hit a more consistant biting slice using the eastern grip especially when returning a hard serve or groundstroke.

paulfreda
06-14-2005, 05:04 PM
The ball must, always, obey the laws of physics, and an open face WILL, inevitably, cause the ball to deflect upward. Must be the only physicist on the planet who isn't aware of that.


With all due respect, an open face will not ...." inevitably, cause the ball to deflect upward." That is ONLY upwards.
The reason for this is that there are two forces acting on the ball. The open face will send the ball upward. But the strings on the ball with the racquet moving down will add a component of force downward due to friction.

It is not easy to prove this to oneself with experimentation on the court.
But one can easily prove it on a pool table. Yes a pool table. The same laws of physics apply when a cue ball strikes an object ball at an angle. There is a well known and easily demonstrable effect called "throw" which causes the object ball to move in the direction of the cue ball and not in the direction of the line of centers. I can refer you to an authoritative work for further explanation and/or you can ask any expert pool player to demonstrate "contact induced throw" to you.

Now if friction between smooth plastic pool balls can alter the path of an OB, imagine how well it (friction) can with a tennis ball given the friction between strings and a fuzzy, compressible tennis ball.

So the face does not have to be perfectly square for a slice although because friction is the lesser of the forces involved, the face will need to be close to square.

The book; The Science of Pocket Billiards by Jack Koehler. See page 38, Collison Induced Throw

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BTW, I hit BH slice most of the time using my SW grip. I fan it wide open and hold the wrist ahead of the strings at all times. Gives a nice penetrating shot which skids low.

bigcattennis
06-14-2005, 05:13 PM
I think you need to use a ball and racquet analogy not a pool ball. Anyway it is firmly established that you need to hit the ball with a square or nearly square face or you will have a tough time keeping it in the court. By the way golf is a good analogy as the more you open the club face of the iron the more loft you get and hence the more you square the club at contact the more forward drive you get.

Rickson
06-14-2005, 10:00 PM
I use an eastern for my topspin backhand and my slice. I find I get a better drive on my slice with the eastern than when I use the continental.

mucat
06-14-2005, 10:28 PM
I was thinking about the same question for a while. Before, I use a 2hbh and 1hbh slice, so I use continental for slice. Now I use a 1hbh for everything, and I had been experimenting with both continental and eastern grip for the slice. Finally, I picked the eastern, it is more penetrating for me, plus the strike zone is the same for topspin, flat and slice with the same grip. And more, since I don't have to change grip, I can disguise my shots better, while the forward swing path of slice and topspin is different, if I have time to setup, I can use high takeback and mask the intention of my spin until I start swinging forward.